Congresswoman shot dead in arizona

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if you haven't heard about this then turn on your TV

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

NPR is reporting that her and 6 others are dead

[Joemailman]

CNN is saying that the congresswoman is still in surgery.

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CNN is saying that the congresswoman is still in surgery.

yeah they just changed it. everyone was reporting she was dead for about an hour, then they find out he's alive. real nice reporting there

what they are saying is that she was shot in the head at very close range (somewhere between 4 feet and point blank) and that they rushed her to the hospital where she is in surgery

at least 11 others where shot and there may be up to 6 fatalities

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its amazing shes alive and responsive

bullet went straight through her brain

[MJZiggy]

its amazing shes alive and responsive

bullet went straight through her brain

Did anyone report entry and exit locations?

[Little Whiskey]

Did anyone report entry and exit locations?

If a bullet enters and exits your brain, i don't see how you live. amazing. since it was so close maybe the bullet wasn't able to slow down enough to expand and only did "minor" damage.

i read that an intern that was only on the staff for a short time saved her life and the lives of some of the others. he ran back as everyone was running away. hero!

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Did anyone report entry and exit locations?

they were guarding that info yesterday pending the investigation and whatnot

but they did say today that the bullet traveled i think they said lengthwise, which is what saved her

i'm guessing lengthwise means front to back and not side to side

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If a bullet enters and exits your brain, i don't see how you live. amazing. since it was so close maybe the bullet wasn't able to slow down enough to expand and only did "minor" damage.
!

i was thing something like that too, maybe FMJ would those do that?

i would guess the shot would have been nothing like the kennedy shooting with a high powered rifle where there was a massive exit wound

[Little Whiskey]

that could be. i might test that theory with a watermelon. any talk of what caliber?

[Joemailman]

If a bullet enters and exits your brain, i don't see how you live. amazing. since it was so close maybe the bullet wasn't able to slow down enough to expand and only did "minor" damage.

i read that an intern that was only on the staff for a short time saved her life and the lives of some of the others. he ran back as everyone was running away. hero!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/09/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T2

Swelling of the brain is the biggest threat Giffords faces, said Lemole. The bullet traveled through the left hemisphere of her brain from back to front, he said, and "not through some of those critical trajectories" that would have made recovery more difficult. The most traumatic gunshot injuries are when a bullet crosses from one hemisphere to another, he said.

[Kiwon]

It's just a terrible thing. I hope this lady will be able to recover as much function as possible.

God bless the families of the dead and wounded.

[mraynrand]

First, condolances and prayers for those killed and their families and friends.


But I can't help but recall the case of Phineas Gage:

http://brainandspine.titololawoffice.com/uploads/image/Phineas%20Gage1.jpg

"Those who know the story of Phineas Gage will appreciate the photo below of Gage holding the famous railroad spike the pieced his brain. This is a true event that took place in 1848. Gage was the foreman of a construction crew laying a railroad roadbed. As he was packing powder and sand into a hole in rock, the powder detonated, sending the 13-pound tamper into his cheek and out of the top of his head. It landed 25 to 30 yards behind him.

Surprisingly, Gage never lost consciousness even though most of the front of the left side of his brain was destroyed. He made a full physical recovery over the following 10 weeks, but his personality was irreversibly altered. Whereas he had once been an intelligent and even-tempered worker, he had overnight become irreverent, grossly profane, obstinate, capricious and ill-tempered. His friends said he was "no longer Gage."

The story is taught in medical schools to emphasize that you do not need to lose consciousness to suffer a severe brain injury and that a brain injury can cause profound behavior changes in the individual."

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs122.snc3/16932_402226630051_331893675051_10648108_1697811_n .jpg


Here's hoping Giffords makes a speedy and complete recovery, and doesn't suffer a dramatic personality shift. Friends of mine in her district say she is pretty exceptional.

[HowardRoark]

Whereas he had once been an intelligent and even-tempered worker, he had overnight become irreverent, grossly profane, obstinate, capricious and ill-tempered. His friends said he was "no longer Gage."

Sounds like he would have been a great fit here at PackerRats.

Seriously though, I have some personal experience with a family member with brain trauma that changed personality. It sucks.

[Patler]

i would guess the shot would have been nothing like the kennedy shooting with a high powered rifle where there was a massive exit wound

I know you mean President Kennedy, but it reminded me of an article I read quite a while ago about the Robert Kennedy shooting. Several trauma experts agreed that an injury like Robert Kennedy sustained is now actually quite survivable because of techniques they have to control swelling, etc. Certainly not a sure thing, but unlike then, he would have had a chance now, and may have had even just 10-15 years after his shooting. A lot changed just after that, apparently. They differed about what he might have been like if he had survived.

[mraynrand]

Sounds like he would have been a great fit here at PackerRats.

Seriously though, I have some personal experience with a family member with brain trauma that changed personality. It sucks.


Sorry to hear that Howie. It is a kind of death - the person you knew is gone and there is someone there who may look the same, but is different.

[Little Whiskey]

they think the doctors are the ones who killed Lincoln and not Booth's bullet. had they left him alone he might have survived.

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I know you mean President Kennedy, but it reminded me of an article I read quite a while ago about the Robert Kennedy shooting. Several trauma experts agreed that an injury like Robert Kennedy sustained is now actually quite survivable because of techniques they have to control swelling, etc. Certainly not a sure thing, but unlike then, he would have had a chance now, and may have had even just 10-15 years after his shooting. A lot changed just after that, apparently. They differed about what he might have been like if he had survived.

i know YOU mean RFK. but when i heard she survived the first think i thought was could ,medical technology really be that much improved from the times of JFK? could doctors today have saved JFK? of course the answer is probably no because he lost a lot of brain, but he was alive for a bit after the shot, i think he even made it to the hospital alive.

i never even thought about RFK. but it is amazing to see how far medicine has come in just 30 or 40 years

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they think the doctors are the ones who killed Lincoln and not Booth's bullet. had they left him alone he might have survived.

lincoln survived to the next day didn't he? i wouldn't doubt the medical practices of the day didn't help. if you got shot in the arm or leg they just cut it off to prevent infection

[Joemailman]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7071IA20110112

Giffords would sustain some permanent brain damage from her bullet injury, Rhee said, although he remained hopeful she would recover to a "functional, viable, normal" state.

"I think ... without doubt. .. there's going to be some permanent damage that's going to occur from the bullet .... but will she be functional, viable, normal? I can't say for sure, but I'm very hopeful that she will be," he said.

Hopefully, she will not suffer any of the severe behavioral changes that sometimes happen even if her political career may be over.

[Little Whiskey]

lincoln survived to the next day didn't he? i wouldn't doubt the medical practices of the day didn't help. if you got shot in the arm or leg they just cut it off to prevent infection

I asked my wife (who is a History Geek) she said he didn't lived thru the night. they were trying to dig the bullet out of his head. had they left it alone, he would have lived.