MVP: James Starks [Archive]

gabe

01-09-2011, 07:03 PM

rbaloha1

01-09-2011, 07:08 PM

Rookie playoff record. Shifty with fresh legs. Ran with good pad level. Elevates B.jackson's play.

Good energy.

bobblehead

01-09-2011, 07:30 PM

LVP- James Jones

a perfectly thrown pass that he drops that would have put the game almost out of reach at halftime

but no one cares when jennings drops passes I guess.

VegasPackFan

01-09-2011, 07:30 PM

unlike Bjack, Starks runs definitively to the hole. He runs downhill and goes for yards first and then a big play after

mission

01-09-2011, 07:32 PM

I wrote here sometime during the "we need to get lynch" saga that maybe TT thinks Starks is going to come on big late in the year. I didn't really *think* it as much as I just hoped it to be true, but whoa... I'm still pretty fired up from this win.

Really happy for Aaron too. It would have been a loooong offseason having to hear about not winning a playoff game.

red

01-09-2011, 07:40 PM

but no one cares when jennings drops passes I guess.

how many perfectly thrown balls did jennings drop while he was 10 yards past the nearest defender?

there was the one high hard pass that he didn't quite get his hands up quick enough for but should have caught anyways

then there was the pass that hit the ground right before him

and i think i remember one more pass towards him that he didn't get early one

so did any of jennings "drops" directly take 7 points off the board?

but we won't let facts mess up your dreams of letting JJ fuck you in the ass and give you a reach around

pbmax

01-09-2011, 08:03 PM

I remember on Jennings drop. Were there more?

red

01-09-2011, 08:06 PM

I remember on Jennings drop. Were there more?

bobblehead said he had 3

gbgary

01-09-2011, 08:16 PM

why in the HELL did we start run, run, pass, punt with 12 fuckin minutes on the clock....god that shit BLOWS my MIND! I hate the Pats, but at least they keep trying to score, F that run the clock shit.....sorry drunk messaging haha

this!! nothing should have changed. should have kept doing what had been working all game long. someone's got to ask mm the question. he's too close to it to see it.

as for starks...great game! mvp???? no. that's for rodgers and his three tds. starks and williams right behind.

Freak Out

01-09-2011, 08:16 PM

Starks was the shit but I think Tramon had a hell of a game as well and should be considered. :)

bobblehead

01-09-2011, 08:22 PM

how many perfectly thrown balls did jennings drop while he was 10 yards past the nearest defender?

there was the one high hard pass that he didn't quite get his hands up quick enough for but should have caught anyways

then there was the pass that hit the ground right before him

and i think i remember one more pass towards him that he didn't get early one

so did any of jennings "drops" directly take 7 points off the board?

but we won't let facts mess up your dreams of letting JJ fuck you in the ass and give you a reach around

As long as we aren't getting personal here. I'll chalk it up to someone not being able to handle their alcohol, no biggie. The first and worst drop was the 3rd offensive play I believe. 3rd and 7, right in his mitts and he let it go through. Horrible drop. He also had another down field that was similar to JJ's drop. The third one may have been a very tough catch as I recall, but catchable. As for my dreams about JJ, he drops WAY too many passes. I'm not defending him, I'm simply pointing out that people see things the way they choose to....in your case, my guess is blurry...like through beer goggles.

bobblehead

01-09-2011, 08:25 PM

this!! nothing should have changed. should have kept doing what had been working all game long. someone's got to ask mm the question. he's too close to it to see it.

as for starks...great game! mvp???? no. that's for rodgers and his three tds. starks and williams right behind.

worse, imo, was letting the final 17 seconds run off when we could have run another play to set up a FG at the end of the first half. At least run the play and use your TO to kick a FG if its in range, if not, punt it through the endzone and let Philly try and go 80 yards in 7 seconds with no timeouts. Fuck MM likes to play it stupid at the end of the half. If he had been the jets yesterday he would have let Indy run out the clock and kick a game winner instead of calling the TO like Rex did.

Bretsky

01-09-2011, 08:25 PM

He had two drops; the first one was in a key spot and I think the second one was a 20-25yd ball downfield. I think the third one short hopped him if we are thinking of the same ball

Jimx29

01-09-2011, 08:33 PM

Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
18 27 180 66.7 6.7 2 9 3 0 122.5

Aaron and Starks Co-MVPs

Patler

01-09-2011, 08:39 PM

how many perfectly thrown balls did jennings drop while he was 10 yards past the nearest defender?

there was the one high hard pass that he didn't quite get his hands up quick enough for but should have caught anyways

then there was the pass that hit the ground right before him

and i think i remember one more pass towards him that he didn't get early one

so did any of jennings "drops" directly take 7 points off the board?

but we won't let facts mess up your dreams of letting JJ fuck you in the ass and give you a reach around

At least Jones didn't turn it into an interception like Jennings did a couple weeks ago on a pass just as perfect when he was just as open.

Jones has had way too many drops.
Jennings has had way too many drops.
Jennings is being paid like an elite receiver.
Jones is not.

Personally, I am more frustrated with Jennings' drops than I am with Jones'.

mission

01-09-2011, 08:51 PM

At least Jones didn't turn it into an interception like Jennings did a couple weeks ago on a pass just as perfect when he was just as open.

Jones has had way too many drops.
Jennings has had way too many drops.
Jennings is being paid like an elite receiver.
Jones is not.

Personally, I am more frustrated with Jennings' drops than I am with Jones'.

Take away the INT in Detroit and Jennings' drops today were on balls thrown away from his body where he would have had to make a nice play on the ball. He should have caught them -- yes -- but I feel a bit better about it personally. Jones drops passes right in his bread basket more often than I've seen it happen with Jennings.

Plus the one today before the half to potentially put us up huge was just such a momentum halter. I felt sick to my stomach after that.

pbmax

01-09-2011, 08:51 PM

... He also had another down field that was similar to JJ's drop...

Can you get me a down and distance or time? I like to see if I can find the replay. Don't remember it.

Cheesehead Craig

01-09-2011, 08:53 PM

Starks proved today that we didn't need to trade for anybody for RB. We already had the solution.

Little Whiskey

01-09-2011, 09:04 PM

Starks proved today that we didn't need to trade for anybody for RB. We already had the solution.

it just took too damn long for them to figure it out.

I'd also like to see a couple more good games out him before i believe

gbgary

01-09-2011, 09:19 PM

worse, imo, was letting the final 17 seconds run off when we could have run another play to set up a FG at the end of the first half.

yup. i mentioned his give-up, with a time-out, in the game thread. stupid!

Bossman641

01-09-2011, 11:21 PM

Jennings had the one on 3rd and 7 that he dropped. There was another one to him in the first half where he was open short on the right, Rodgers threw it high and hard, and it bounced off his hands. The Eagles nearly picked it off. There was also the one in the second half where he ran the comeback route on the left hashmarks and he trapped it. Wasn't a very good throw though.

HarveyWallbangers

01-10-2011, 12:31 AM

Jennings is a stud who drops the occasional ball--like most receivers. Jones is average and makes a bad play for every good play he makes.

OS PA

01-10-2011, 12:40 AM

channtheman

01-10-2011, 02:19 AM

awesome game by the kid!

can't believe MM took him out for kuhn on that short yardage play. the guy knows how to get the tough yards.

MM's too cute for his own good sometimes.

Apparently it was smart to pull the hot runner for Kuhn, who if you are paying attention, has rarely actually gotten the short yardage when we needed it. Dumb call on MM, gotta keep going with the guy who has been getting the tough yards all game.

channtheman

01-10-2011, 02:21 AM

The Eagles have their very on James Jones if anyone else didn't notice. Avant is a guy who makes some big time plays but also drops some easy ass balls. He has done it in other games I've seen the Eagles play too.

Tarlam!

01-10-2011, 02:25 AM

Apparently it was smart to pull the hot runner for Kuhn, who if you are paying attention, has rarely actually gotten the short yardage when we needed it. Dumb call on MM, gotta keep going with the guy who has been getting the tough yards all game.

I don't think the KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNN!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! chant results from a player not doining what's needed for the team, Chann. If you recall the Giants game, fans were chanting for him before the snap, sometimes when even the huddle hadn't broken.

You can fool all of the people some of the time, though, so, maybe you're right.

vince

01-10-2011, 04:04 AM

If "you are paying attention," Kuhn has been an elite short yardage back this year. He was 10 for 12 converting on 3rd and less than 3 this year. That's #3 in the league.

From espn.com

Kuhn, in fact, has emerged as one of the most efficient running backs in the NFL this season. He has converted 25 first downs on 80 carries, including 8-of-9 on third-and-1, and has the league's second-best conversion rate (31.3) among running backs with at least 25 first downs.

Overall, Kuhn has 31 first downs on 94 touches this season. Last Sunday, he doubled his season scoring output with three touchdowns in the Packers' 45-17 victory over the New York Giants.

wootah

01-10-2011, 04:58 AM

I like Starks a lot. The dropoff in talent when they hand it over the BJack is obvious even to my untrained eye.

What did worry me was that on his run to the left (right before the BJack TD), he tucked the ball away with his right hand. I'm still waiting the "James Starks Highlights" on nfl.com, but on his carries in the game resumé, I never saw him carry it in his left hand. I always thought not switching the ball away from traffic was a concern for fumbles, but maybe a more knowledgeable poster can shed some light on this topic. According to his college stats (link (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=170697)) he is everything but prone for fumbles; 0 fumbles after 698 carries, 0 fumbles after 127 receptions.

Tarlam!

01-10-2011, 06:34 AM

I like Starks a lot. The dropoff in talent when they hand it over the BJack is obvious even to my untrained eye.

Don't need a trained eye to know what you enjoy watching and what you don't enjoy watching, wootah, and it's much more fun watching Starks fall forward for positive yardage than it is watching BJack stutterstep for no or negative yardage!

sheepshead

01-10-2011, 07:25 AM

it just took too damn long for them to figure it out.

I'd also like to see a couple more good games out him before i believe

I was thinking the same thing. But he is somewhat raw the way Tramon Williams was. Some experience and coaching, we may have something.

mraynrand

01-10-2011, 09:33 AM

No doubt, Mission, beilve that shit. But why in the HELL did we start run, run, pass, punt with 12 fuckin minutes on the clock....god that shit BLOWS my MIND! I hate the Pats, but at least they keep trying to score, F that run the clock shit.....sorry drunk messaging haha

This is the essence of STUBBY. McCarthy had a great gameplan, and was calling a great game. But he sometimes sticks with it just a little too long. The game plan was working perfectly - run and run the clock, punish philly for playing the pass. neutralize Philly's confusing pass coverage and blitz schemes. I don't know for sure, but once Stubby sees that Philly is now playing the run more seriously, he has to go against tendency. It's a subtle point, but it seems he holds to his strict gameplan too tight and too long at times.

mraynrand

01-10-2011, 09:37 AM

I like Starks a lot. The dropoff in talent when they hand it over the BJack is obvious even to my untrained eye.

What did worry me was that on his run to the left (right before the BJack TD)...

I'd quibble one point with you - it's not a drop off in talent - they have different talents, as evidenced by the Jackson TD. Starks is a good downhill RB, BJack is a good shifty back, perfectly suited for screens, passes in the flat, check downs, etc. Plus, he's pretty damn awesome in pass pro. Good combination, when used correctly.

bobblehead

01-10-2011, 11:27 PM

He had two drops; the first one was in a key spot and I think the second one was a 20-25yd ball downfield. I think the third one short hopped him if we are thinking of the same ball

almost exactly 10 minutes into the game he dropped one just like the first one on the 3rd and 7 play. Right in his hands at the top of his helmet.

bobblehead

01-10-2011, 11:59 PM

Can you get me a down and distance or time? I like to see if I can find the replay. Don't remember it.

I just FF through the game, but didn't pick it out. Another poster mentioned it. The throw covered about 25 yards, jennings was past the defender and it dropped down into his hands and he dropped it. He did make a small adjustment to the ball, and I don't recall if anyone was behind him, or had an angle on him, just recall screaming "fuck, first Jones now Jennings. WTF!!"

Upon further review I will cut him some slack on the one at the 5ish minute mark in the 1st quarter. He jumped fully extended and it went through his hands and was almost picked. That was on Rodgers and wouldhave been a great catch.

MadtownPacker

01-11-2011, 12:21 AM

Could somebody count on his 23 carries how many times did Starks fall forward? He runs so hard that it almost always seems like he is falling forwards. McCarthy commented on Starks falling forward and it makes sense. If you consistently fall forward, you're gaining yards. At 6'2" just by falling forward Starks gains an extra 2 yards. On the other hand, I shook my head with disgust when I saw Jackson get hit in the thigh by a cornerback and fall sideways. The kid is never going to understand the tough yards aspect of the game. Starks has a future as a premier back if he gets his touches.
Nice post. It is obvious he gets more outta nothing than Jackson gets out of something. He doesn't hesitate and the best part is he bounces off tacklers and keeps churning along. Last guy that did that in GB was Ahman. He is a horse the offense can ride thru a defense. The passing game is going to open up in ATL because the dirtybirds saw it too.

denverYooper

01-11-2011, 11:35 AM

Could somebody count on his 23 carries how many times did Starks fall forward? He runs so hard that it almost always seems like he is falling forwards. McCarthy commented on Starks falling forward and it makes sense. If you consistently fall forward, you're gaining yards. At 6'2" just by falling forward Starks gains an extra 2 yards. On the other hand, I shook my head with disgust when I saw Jackson get hit in the thigh by a cornerback and fall sideways. The kid is never going to understand the tough yards aspect of the game. Starks has a future as a premier back if he gets his touches.

Not only does he fall forward, sometimes he does his crazy torpedo move where he gets his long frame real low and comes shooting out of a pile.

That and he looks to have one hell of a grip on the ball, 4 points of pressure.

mraynrand

01-11-2011, 12:01 PM

Nice post. It is obvious he gets more outta nothing than Jackson gets out of something. He doesn't hesitate and the best part is he bounces off tacklers and keeps churning along. Last guy that did that in GB was Ahman. He is a horse the offense can ride thru a defense. The passing game is going to open up in ATL because the dirtybirds saw it too.

There will some advantage in ATL for what starks did in Philly. But a lot of his yards were specifically part of a game plan to exploit a defense that was concentrating on defending the pass, and has a pretty smallish and weak front 7. The Packers most likely will not be able to run on ATL like on Philly, and likely will not pound the ball quite so much. But it's good to give them something more to think about.

denverYooper

01-11-2011, 12:28 PM

There will some advantage in ATL for what starks did in Philly. But a lot of his yards were specifically part of a game plan to exploit a defense that was concentrating on defending the pass, and has a pretty smallish and weak front 7. The Packers most likely will not be able to run on ATL like on Philly, and likely will not pound the ball quite so much. But it's good to give them something more to think about.

I'm with you that there was an element of surprise that helped the running game get going, but I don't think that Philly's front 7 is particularly small or weak, at least not up front. Parker and Cole are one of the best DE tandems in the league, much better than Abrahams (situational) and whoever else they have.

Philly does have Ernie Sims who, though not small or weak, is terrible. And they were without Bradley. That hurt them.

I'm not expecting 5.3 YPC because the Falcons will be ready for the run but I expect the running game will be more productive than last time.

denverYooper

01-11-2011, 12:44 PM

I'm curious as to whether they work Starks into some of their short-yardage packages this week.

mraynrand

01-11-2011, 01:30 PM

I'm curious as to whether they work Starks into some of their short-yardage packages this week.

They'd better

denverYooper

01-11-2011, 02:30 PM

The Bears were going to draft Starks in the 6th round:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-playoffs-rookie-report-card.html

His most remarkable stat was during that two-year period he had 7 touchdowns of over 50 yards, including a 92-yard TD run.

As we got closer to our pick, Angelo made the decision for the Bears to draft Starks. When we drafted a player there was a protocol we followed. After the decision on who to draft was made, Cliff Stein (the Bears contract negotiator) would call the players agent and tell him we were planning on drafting his player. He would tell the agent that the wanted to get a 4-year contract with the player and wanted the contract done by a certain date. If the agent agreed then I would call the player and give him the news that the Bears were going to take him. This is exactly what happened with Starks. I was on the phone for a minute or so with Starks when Angelo walked in my office and told me he had changed his mind and was drafting LeFevour. I put Starks on hold and then said to Angelo that Stein had already talked to the agent and I had the player on the phone…we couldn’t do business like that. He said he was sorry but he decided he wanted LeFevour and the card had been turned in.

MadScientist

01-11-2011, 02:32 PM

I'm curious as to whether they work Starks into some of their short-yardage packages this week.

Won't matter if they let a guy hit the RB 3 yards in the backfield.

Tarlam!

01-11-2011, 02:56 PM

The Bears were going to draft Starks in the 6th round:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-playoffs-rookie-report-card.html

How did their pick work out for them?

As a post script, LeFevour was released at the final cut and is now with Cincinnati and Starks ran for 123 yards on 23 carries in a playoff game. Good for you James! I’m proud of you. Good luck next week in Atlanta.

The Bears still suck!

vince

01-11-2011, 03:30 PM

The Bears were going to draft Starks in the 6th round:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-playoffs-rookie-report-card.html
Interesting stuff. How great would it be for the Bears and Packers to meet in the NFC Championship and Starks be intrumental in ending the Bears' season.

pbmax

01-11-2011, 03:55 PM

Nice post. It is obvious he gets more outta nothing than Jackson gets out of something. He doesn't hesitate and the best part is he bounces off tacklers and keeps churning along. Last guy that did that in GB was Ahman. He is a horse the offense can ride thru a defense. The passing game is going to open up in ATL because the dirtybirds saw it too.

McGinn said even when he made a bad read and went wide, he realized his mistake, stuck his toe in the ground and cut north. So even a bad read by the RB gained two yards. That kind of thing makes like for the QB much simpler than Jackson stopping, looking to change direction and losing 1.

vince

01-11-2011, 04:02 PM

sharpe1027

01-11-2011, 06:02 PM

McGinn said even when he made a bad read and went wide, he realized his mistake, stuck his toe in the ground and cut north. So even a bad read by the RB gained two yards. That kind of thing makes like for the QB much simpler than Jackson stopping, looking to change direction and losing 1.

I remember one play in particular where there was nothing to be gained and he just cut hard inside and decided to get what he could. Some how he shot through the line and got almost ten yards. Good things happen when you run north and south with a purpose.

I also saw several times that he made a lateral shift before he cut up field. Without that shift, the defense was in position, with the shift he changed his angle and found a hole to gain good yardage. It is nice to have a RB that can take advantage of the linemen sustaining their blocks.

Fritz

01-11-2011, 07:13 PM

Boy he hit the holes fast on the plays into the middle. Sometimes it looked like there was no opening in the line at all, yet he squirted out the other side like a newborn out of mama.

But if it's third and one do you give it to him or to Kuhn, who seems to run straight into the pile but keeps his legs churning?

bobblehead

01-11-2011, 08:24 PM

Interesting stuff. How great would it be for the Bears and Packers to meet in the NFC Championship and Starks be intrumental in ending the Bears' season.

Oh sweet nectar of irony.

mraynrand

01-11-2011, 08:27 PM

Oh sweet nectar of irony.

you wax poetic about things pathetic

Tony Oday

01-11-2011, 08:53 PM

Both of the birds gave up over 105 yards rushing a game...and the Falcons I would guess, were playing from ahead much more often.

Packgator

01-11-2011, 11:01 PM

The Bears were going to draft Starks in the 6th round:

Yeah right. The Bears has since last April to go public with that if they wanted to. Now Starks has a monster game in the playoffs and the Bears all of a sudden say "we were going to take him too..... aren't we great". I guess it's true what they say: The Bears Still Suck.

SnakeLH2006

01-12-2011, 02:54 AM

i said before the game that i hoped MM was just hiding Starks for the playoffs and that he would blow up today and have a big game

23 carries 123 yards

a star is born

See Snake's original thread...A star is not born...He was there, Red.

Finally MM got rid of his BJAck lust, and just glad to see others see Starks is our future.

BJack can catch. BJack can block. BJack cannot get a 50% ratio of positive run/negative loss run for the life of his slow, unathletic ass. Starks is a hard runner that makes rushing plays positive. Starks caught 60 passes in his JR year at Buffalo and can catch the ball...even if he can't block (he does it ok) he's 10 times the back BJack could EVER be given his ability to RUSH the ball forward. God Snake loves this guy.

vince

01-13-2011, 01:33 PM

Good article on the path Starks has taken up to now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011205449.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2011011207509

Fritz

01-13-2011, 01:40 PM

I watched the "SoundFX" in the other thread, and it sure looks like Jennings is jacked about Starks.

bobblehead

01-13-2011, 04:00 PM

See Snake's original thread...A star is not born...He was there, Red.

Finally MM got rid of his BJAck lust, and just glad to see others see Starks is our future.

BJack can catch. BJack can block. BJack cannot get a 50% ratio of positive run/negative loss run for the life of his slow, unathletic ass. Starks is a hard runner that makes rushing plays positive. Starks caught 60 passes in his JR year at Buffalo and can catch the ball...even if he can't block (he does it ok) he's 10 times the back BJack could EVER be given his ability to RUSH the ball forward. God Snake loves this guy.

BJack isn't unathletic or slow, he is indecisive. He doesn't have the vision. He flashes brilliance when the hole is where its supposed to be, or where he is expecting it, but when its somewhere else he doesn't have that quick/decisive vision to plant the foot, cut back and go. I said he lacked vision in his first season, then he looked good his second year and I reversed, but then he proved my initial assessment was correct. He is what he is....a very good 3rd down back.