IF the Packers win it all should they give a ring to Al Harris ?

[steve823]

I don't want to jump ahead here and get too cocky, since I think it's going to be a very evenly matched game. However, since there's so much time until the big game I figured why not see how others felt.

My question: If the Packers win the Superbowl, should they give one of the 150 rings to Al Harris ? I really think they should. Al didn't have a huge effect on us this year because of his injuries, or even last year, but he's been a premiere player for us for years and a class act. Why not give him a ring almost as a lifetime Packer achievement? I think he deserves it.

[Joemailman]

I think they should, and will give him one. He was a part of the team for half the season, even though he didn't play. Most teams give rings to practice squad players, so I don't see why you wouldn't give one to someone on the PUP list.

[gbpackfan]

Uh, no. He was Miami Dolphin last (before he got cut). So while Harris is a first class guy, the Packers cant hand out rings to every good guy that was on the roster.

[Tony Oday]

Uh, no. He was Miami Dolphin last (before he got cut). So while Harris is a first class guy, the Packers cant hand out rings to every good guy that was on the roster.

agreed...he didnt play for the Packers this year.

[Joemailman]

There are 150 rings. Most will go to guys who didn't play for the Packers this year.

[RashanGary]

No.

[Lurker64]

Depends entirely on how many superbowl rings are left after they're given out to all the players, coaches, staff etc. Winning teams get 150 superbowl rings, and if there's one left and it comes down to Justin Harrell or Al Harris... I might be inclined to go with the Dolphin.

[Deputy Nutz]

unfortunately no. I don't give him ring since the last team he played for was the Miami dolphins. I don't remember if Ken Ruetgers got a ring in 1996, I think he was on IR at the begining of the year, but retired before making the active roster.

[Patler]

PUP list, then released. That's a tough one, but I doubt he will get a ring if they win it.

If he hadn't been PUP eligible, he would have been IR'ed or released before the season started.
IR -he gets a ring.
Released - no ring.
Due to age, injury and salary if he had not been PUP eligible they would have released him.

[Joemailman]

Interesting article on how Saints handled it last year. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/06/new_orleans_saints_general_man_7.html
One thing I noted is that the team apparently can give out as many rings as it wants. The league pays for the first 150.

[Bretsky]

it would be a wonderful gesture and one I'd certainly favor if I was the one making the call

will they ?

no way

[swede]

Maybe the D-Backs chip in and buy one for Al as a retirement gift.

[easy cheesy]

Interesting article on how Saints handled it last year. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/06/new_orleans_saints_general_man_7.html
One thing I noted is that the team apparently can give out as many rings as it wants. The league pays for the first 150.

Thanks for the post... definitely interesting article. I never thought of a team giving out rings to the medical staff... it just never crossed my mind, but it makes sense. In this case anyway, the Saints seemed to have handled things with thought and class.

[Patler]

Interesting article on how Saints handled it last year. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/06/new_orleans_saints_general_man_7.html
One thing I noted is that the team apparently can give out as many rings as it wants. The league pays for the first 150.

Interesting that not all players on IR got rings. One who didn't stick around after going on IR didn't get one.

[gbpackfan]

There are 150 rings. Most will go to guys who didn't play for the Packers this year.

Your comparing apples to oranges. The Packers will give rings out to players, executives and other staff for doing job specific things. Al Harris would get a ring for doing his job, being a player for the GB Packers. I guess whether or not he was a player this year could be debated. I say no. By your logic, if the Packers fired a front office staff member mid-season, they should get a ring too.

[gbpackfan]

Interesting article on how Saints handled it last year. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/06/new_orleans_saints_general_man_7.html
One thing I noted is that the team apparently can give out as many rings as it wants. The league pays for the first 150.

This article makes me thing Al Harris will get one. If McKenzie got one, Harris should too!

[Little Whiskey]

each medical staff member should get two rings for the amount of work they had to put in this year!

[Patler]

This article makes me thing Al Harris will get one. If McKenzie got one, Harris should too!

McKenzie actually started 2 games for the Saints last year. He had been released in the off season, but came back when the Saints had a bunch of DBs hurt. There was a big stink from the fans when they released him just before playoffs to sign another QB. By that time their regular DBs were healthy, and McKenzie didn't have a spot. He was there about a month.

[Joemailman]

it would be a wonderful gesture and one I'd certainly favor if I was the one making the call

will they ?

no way

B! Don't get distracted. You're not allowed to even consider that the Packers will win the Super Bowl. Focus! Focus!

[packerbacker1234]

Unlike Barnett, Finely, and all the other hurt players - they at least saw the field this year and worked hard coming in as starters. They also have helped the guys replacing them be successful, at least, that seems to be the common talk comin gout of the locker room.

Harris, however, has been distant with the team when he was here - and it was apparent we were letting him go because he was cleared to practice and STILL not working out with the rest of the team. I thought we did him a great disrespect in not letting him go out there in full pads iwth the team for at least a week just so he could of "gotten a chance" - but it was it is.

[mraynrand]

Maybe the D-Backs chip in and buy one for Al as a retirement gift.

Maybe they just get him a Casio:

http://meta.ath0.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/09110009.jpeg

[Noodle]

C'mon, this should be easy. My understanding is that Al was a pretty good locker room guy during his years here, he worked hard to get back in playing condition this year, and when he left, he showed nothing but love for the Pack (remember the ad he put out thanking the fans?). He never gave up on the Pack, the Pack cut him (not blaming the Pack, but his short time with the Fins after getting cut shouldn't affect this at all).

In the end, how can it hurt to get him a ring? And how much would that say about the value the Packers place on loyalty and hard work.

[Joemailman]

Unlike Barnett, Finely, and all the other hurt players - they at least saw the field this year and worked hard coming in as starters. They also have helped the guys replacing them be successful, at least, that seems to be the common talk comin gout of the locker room.

Harris, however, has been distant with the team when he was here - and it was apparent we were letting him go because he was cleared to practice and STILL not working out with the rest of the team. I thought we did him a great disrespect in not letting him go out there in full pads iwth the team for at least a week just so he could of "gotten a chance" - but it was it is.

Not true. Once he was removed from the PUP list, Al Harris did practice with the team. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/105403508.html

While on the PUP list, he was not allowed to practice with the team, although he was working out at the team facilities. While on the PUP list, he was allowed to attend team meetings, which I also believe he did.

[Smeefers]

If they get Harris a ring, they should get Kampan a ring too. He's on a different team, just like Harris.

Then again, I know that the groundskeeper will most likely get a ring, so I suppose giving one to Al Harris wouldn't be that bad. I'm trying to be as even keeled as I can, I really really love Al Harris, he was one of my favorite packers, but I'm not sold. He went to a different team. No one thinks Blackman should get a ring, right? Or all those guys we cut from the 80 man roster in preseason. Heck, those guys even played in games this year.

[sharpe1027]

If they get Harris a ring, they should get Kampan a ring too. He's on a different team, just like Harris.

Then again, I know that the groundskeeper will most likely get a ring, so I suppose giving one to Al Harris wouldn't be that bad. I'm trying to be as even keeled as I can, I really really love Al Harris, he was one of my favorite packers, but I'm not sold. He went to a different team. No one thinks Blackman should get a ring, right? Or all those guys we cut from the 80 man roster in preseason. Heck, those guys even played in games this year.

I think this is part of the problem. I could understand if they gave it to him because of how long he was with them and because he effectively retired part way through the season (his stint at the Dolphins was pretty minimal), but there's plenty of reason to understand why they wouldn't. The superbowl ring is about contributions this season, once you start giving rings for past years, you open a whole can of worms.

[Guiness]

I think this is part of the problem. I could understand if they gave it to him because of how long he was with them and because he effectively retired part way through the season (his stint at the Dolphins was pretty minimal), but there's plenty of reason to understand why they wouldn't. The superbowl ring is about contributions this season, once you start giving rings for past years, you open a whole can of worms.

It's a tough call, and you make the point well. Is it like a 'lifetime achievement' award?

I don't think his playing for Miami should affect the decision. He was cut, and went looking for work elsewhere, you can't blame him for that. As an analogy, I once switched companies part way through a year, but still got invited to the Christmas party for a company I stopped working for in June...

[Smidgeon]

Well, except for Kampman and Harris, who else has left the team recently that had been a long time contributor? Who was the last Packer to retire from the team?

Why can't it be sort of a lifetime achievement for a couple heavily contributing individuals who just missed being with the team for this run? I think it would be classy. Unnecessary, but classy.

[pbmax]

How did Kampman enter this discussion? He wasn't under contract to the Packers in 2010 at any point.

Argue about Al, all you want, but let's stick to one year.

Ruettgers was on PUP but was activated for 4 games in 1996. He started one. So I am sure he got a ring.

[gbgary]

unfortunately no. I don't give him ring since the last team he played for was the Miami dolphins. I don't remember if Ken Ruetgers got a ring in 1996, I think he was on IR at the begining of the year, but retired before making the active roster.

i remember that he did.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-69524198.html

[Smeefers]

It's a tough call, and you make the point well. Is it like a 'lifetime achievement' award?

I don't think his playing for Miami should affect the decision. He was cut, and went looking for work elsewhere, you can't blame him for that. As an analogy, I once switched companies part way through a year, but still got invited to the Christmas party for a company I stopped working for in June...

You may of gotten invited to the Christmas party, but I'm sure you didn't get a bonus. If Al gets a ring, I'll be fine with it. If he doesn't, I'll be fine with it too. I feel bad for him, but there's to many times that I hear players say "it's a business." Yeah, they want it to be a business until looking at the game that way goes against them. Then it's all about the team and love of the game.


Why can't it be sort of a lifetime achievement for a couple heavily contributing individuals who just missed being with the team for this run? I think it would be classy. Unnecessary, but classy.

Because it's not a lifetime achievement award. It's a super bowl ring. I brought Kampman into it to put out this exact point. Harris, Blackmon, Kampman and whoever else *should* get a ring, well, they really don't deserve one. They're not on our team, they're on another team. And yes, even if it was just for a little bit, it counts. They're not on our IR. They're not on our practice squad. They're not a coach, they don't work in the front office. They're not part of our team anymore. They are part of someone else's team.

[Smidgeon]

I'm not saying it is. And I'm not sure Kampman would be on that level. But what if someone like William Henderson had retired the year before and never got a ring. Someone like Harris was obviously a part of the buildup to getting to this point even if he didn't contribute this year. While there is no requirement to give him one, there's the opportunity be the team to reward people who were part of building this championship. I don't think Kampman should get one because he opted to leave in the offseason. But it was just something I was thinking about.

[steve823]

Exactly. Kampman wanted to leave and left once he became a free agent. Harris wanted to stay despite his injury and age, and worked real heard to rehab and come back only to not play up to expectations. He was also part of our team for a good portion of the year, even if it was on PUP.

[gbgary]

how in the heck did kampman's name come up?

[RUnuts]

You could make an argument that the situation of Al Harris' being on PUP and possibly returning improved the play of the other DB's hoping they wouldn't lose their position.

Or not.

[swede]

You could make an argument that the situation of Al Harris' being on PUP and possibly returning improved the play of the other DB's hoping they wouldn't lose their position.

Or not.

Look here youngster. You shouldn't go around abusing your own posts. Self abuse is frowned upon here.

It leaves too little work for the rest of us and then the union stewards get involved.

[MadtownPacker]

Yeah he should get a ring. He tried to do everything he could to get back on the field for this team.

[Patler]

Exactly. Kampman wanted to leave and left once he became a free agent. Harris wanted to stay despite his injury and age, and worked real heard to rehab and come back only to not play up to expectations. He was also part of our team for a good portion of the year, even if it was on PUP.

No, he wasn't "part of the team". Players on PUP list can not participate in team activities and the league actually checks up on it. Its one of the things they do enforce, to prevent teams stockpiling players at the end of camp. When the team is here, the PUP guys are there. When the team is there, the PUP guys are here. Some guys on PUP have said it is almost eerie how little they see of the team.

Will Blackmon, who was around all through camp, probably spent more time with the team than Harris did this year. Not Harris' fault, but he never was part of the team this year. Ohm and I'm not suggesting that Blackmon deserves a ring, he doesn't.

But how about Mike Montgomery? Filled a 53 man roster spot for 2 1/2 weeks and even suited up for a couple games in October. Does he deserve a ring if they win?

[Patler]

Yeah he should get a ring. He tried to do everything he could to get back on the field for this team.

Will Blackmon did too, didn't he?

[MadtownPacker]

Will Blackmon did too, didn't he?
Unlike all these bitchasses around here I aint scared to call your Mr. Peabody ass out. :shock:

Fuck no Will Blackmon dont deserve one. Al Harris did alot for this team for YEARS and he was on the team THIS year. I think he should get one cuz I believe he played a big part in mentoring the youngsters. I think he should get one because has been nothing short of loyal and I bet would have loved to stay on the team if it had been up to him. I would give him one because he returned that TD in OT against Seattle. I would give him one for locking down his sign of the field for years. I would give him one for being a Packer that actually deserves one. Not just because it would be a nice gesture.

I would give him one because he is Al Harris. Why do you feel he shouldn't get one? Should Barnett? Finley? Harrell? get one?

[Joemailman]

No, he wasn't "part of the team". Players on PUP list can not participate in team activities and the league actually checks up on it. Its one of the things they do enforce, to prevent teams stockpiling players at the end of camp. When the team is here, the PUP guys are there. When the team is there, the PUP guys are here. Some guys on PUP have said it is almost eerie how little they see of the team.

Will Blackmon, who was around all through camp, probably spent more time with the team than Harris did this year. Not Harris' fault, but he never was part of the team this year. Ohm and I'm not suggesting that Blackmon deserves a ring, he doesn't.

But how about Mike Montgomery? Filled a 53 man roster spot for 2 1/2 weeks and even suited up for a couple games in October. Does he deserve a ring if they win?

It's my understanding that players on the PUP list can participate in team meetings, they just can't practice with the team. I don't know if the Packers had Al Harris do that, although I suspect they did. It's hard for me to imagine that a rookie like Starks would have been ready to contribute anything this year if he wasn't having contact with the team while on the PUP list.

As for Montgomery, I think any player who was on the active roster during the regular season deserves a ring.

[Patler]

Unlike all these bitchasses around here I aint scared to call your Mr. Peabody ass out. :shock:

Ya, you talk tough! :taunt: :taunt:




Fuck no Will Blackmon dont deserve one. Al Harris did alot for this team for YEARS and he was on the team THIS year. I think he should get one cuz I believe he played a big part in mentoring the youngsters. I think he should get one because has been nothing short of loyal and I bet would have loved to stay on the team if it had been up to him. I would give him one because he returned that TD in OT against Seattle. I would give him one for locking down his sign of the field for years. I would give him one for being a Packer that actually deserves one. Not just because it would be a nice gesture.

I would give him one because he is Al Harris. Why do you feel he shouldn't get one? Should Barnett? Finley? Harrell? get one?

When was Harris on the team this year?
If Harris had been cut in training camp, would you give him a ring?
Whether or not a guy is placed on PUP is really just luck of timing.
Blackmon was on the TC roster, Harris was not.
Blackmon I believe was on IR for a day or two, Harris was not.

When time came to decide if Harris was on the team, he was released, just as he would have been in camp except for the fact that he was PUP eligible. All the PUP designation did was allow them to delay the decision.

How about the guys that came and went from the practice squad. Should they get rings if the Packers win?

[Lurker64]

One thing that probably merits consideration, how many players would actually want a superbowl ring for a championship season where they didn't actually contribute anything towards the team's success? I mean, free jewelry is great and you can sell that thing for a lot of money... but if you didn't really do anything to earn it, would you really place much value in it?

[Bretsky]

The road to the Super Bowl is a long journey; remember in the Holmgren years that journey seemed so long.

Along that journey some players are core to the success and their positive attitudes, leadership, and helpfulness help improve teammates as well. I picture Al Harris as being that guy.

If I'm the GM I'm not asking around; I'm giving Al Harris a ring

[Patler]

The road to the Super Bowl is a long journey; remember in the Holmgren years that journey seemed so long.

Along that journey some players are core to the success and their positive attitudes, leadership, and helpfulness help improve teammates as well. I picture Al Harris as being that guy.

If I'm the GM I'm not asking around; I'm giving Al Harris a ring

How about KGB? I believe he still lives in the area, unlike Harris who showed up for the seasons and was otherwise gone.

[swede]

How about KGB? I believe he still lives in the area, unlike Harris who showed up for the seasons and was otherwise gone.

Out of simple curiosity, Patler, did the negotiations with your wife over the wedding guest list go this smoothly and last this long? After all, cousin Edgar was technically a third cousin and his family refused to pay the roster bonus after he turned eighteen.

[Brandon494]

Did he play one snap this season? Well that's your answer.

[Bub]

I think I should get one. I have had a cheese head here in my office all season, and I work in Fort Worth.

How about the PS WR we just signed, Antonio Robinson. Signed 2 weeks before the SB and has a chance to get a fat ring without ever sniffing the field.

...Oh yea, i'm sure Al is a great guy...but no ring.

[Patler]

Out of simple curiosity, Patler, did the negotiations with your wife over the wedding guest list go this smoothly and last this long? After all, cousin Edgar was technically a third cousin and his family refused to pay the roster bonus after he turned eighteen.

Negotiations with my wife? With any wife? Are you married? I long ago learned how to do that. It's very simple. I just say, "Yes dear. Whatever you want dear." It goes very quickly. :lol:

[denverYooper]

Negotiations with my wife? With any wife? Are you married? I long ago learned how to do that. It's very simple. I just say, "Yes dear. Whatever you want dear." It goes very quickly. :lol:

My father's advice to me for marital bliss was "I have no opinion".

[Bretsky]

How about KGB? I believe he still lives in the area, unlike Harris who showed up for the seasons and was otherwise gone.


Who on this team did KGB have a hand in developing over the past three years ?

[Joemailman]

Did he play one snap this season? Well that's your answer.

Boy is TT gonna be pissed when he doesn't get a ring.

[Patler]

Who on this team did KGB have a hand in developing over the past three years ?

I have heard a lot of positive things about KGB over the years, what he did for the team and the community. How he helped young players acclimate to the team and the area, etc. One of the older guys they could come to with a problem or question. I've heard similar things about Tauscher.

We seem to think Harris must have helped teach Tramon Williams, but to be honest, I have never read anything about him taking an active role to do that. He doesn't live in the area, hasn't always returned for the off-season programs, and has been described at times as a bit of a loner when it comes to training because he has his own methods and follows them religiously. There is nothing wrong with that.

I loved him as a player. Great player, strong commitment to his profession. Great example for younger players about what hard work can do; but I have never seen him described as a mentor type, taking young guys under his wing. Maybe I missed it.

I don't care if they give him a ring if they win. Totally up to the team. But I don't think there is any obligation for them to give him one, and if they should decide not to, I will understand why.

[pbmax]

The entire practice squad is going to get one, even the ones who have not played a snap. He was under contract with the team this year and practiced with the team this year. He should get one.

He may turn it down, which is his right, but it should be offered.

[Tarlam!]

I was asking myself this very question, pop by PR and see Mr Peabody (geez, I love that!) started the thread.

I give Al a ring, because he had a huge hand in developing Williams. Together with Woodson, they were coaches on the field for the whole secondary and if he was at team meeting, you just know he was giving the CBs tips etc.

I think it would be a great decision to have to make, because that woulkd mean the Packers actually have 150 rings paid for by the NFL!

[Little Whiskey]

The entire practice squad is going to get one, even the ones who have not played a snap. He was under contract with the team this year and practiced with the team this year. He should get one.

He may turn it down, which is his right, but it should be offered.

while on the PUP i don't think you are allowed to practice with the team. just saying.

[Smidgeon]

I was asking myself this very question, pop by PR and see Mr Peabody (geez, I love that!) started the thread.

I give Al a ring, because he had a huge hand in developing Williams. Together with Woodson, they were coaches on the field for the whole secondary and if he was at team meeting, you just know he was giving the CBs tips etc.

I think it would be a great decision to have to make, because that woulkd mean the Packers actually have 150 rings paid for by the NFL!

Did he?

[Tarlam!]

Did he?

Yeah, but don't ask me to dig up the interview from Packers.com. Don't forget, Harris was "only" the nickel back in Philly; he knew perfectly well what it was like to have starter ability and not start. I vividly remember watching a video where Williams praised both Al and Chuck for taking him under their respective wing.

[Patler]

Yeah, but don't ask me to dig up the interview from Packers.com. Don't forget, Harris was "only" the nickel back in Philly; he knew perfectly well what it was like to have starter ability and not start. I vividly remember watching a video where Williams praised both Al and Chuck for taking him under their respective wing.

I remember Williams talking about learning by watching Harris study and play, not so much from Harris actually taking him under his wing or mentoring him; but I could be wrong.

[RashanGary]

I'm changed my tune a little. At first I thought, "how can you give a Dolphin a Packer SB ring?" But as the debate went on I can see how he was with us for most of the season and was a leader. I wouldn't be shocked if he got one.

Going to the Dolphins makes it tough. If he went to the Bears and played against us in the playoffs, would he still get one? It just gets hard to give rings to other teams players. He's going to have to make it on his team if he wants one.

[RashanGary]

Long time Packers who you wished would get SB rings don't deserve the ring that these guys earned. Their legacy is what it is, giving them a ring someone else earned doesn't change anything and frankly I'm sure the player won't even feel like he won the SB so what's the point?

[Scott Campbell]

I have heard a lot of positive things about KGB over the years, what he did for the team and the community. How he helped young players acclimate to the team and the area, etc. One of the older guys they could come to with a problem or question. I've heard similar things about Tauscher.

We seem to think Harris must have helped teach Tramon Williams, but to be honest, I have never read anything about him taking an active role to do that. He doesn't live in the area, hasn't always returned for the off-season programs, and has been described at times as a bit of a loner when it comes to training because he has his own methods and follows them religiously. There is nothing wrong with that.

I loved him as a player. Great player, strong commitment to his profession. Great example for younger players about what hard work can do; but I have never seen him described as a mentor type, taking young guys under his wing. Maybe I missed it.

I don't care if they give him a ring if they win. Totally up to the team. But I don't think there is any obligation for them to give him one, and if they should decide not to, I will understand why.


Forgetting Tramon for a moment, I've wondered if Harris had an influence on Woodson. In terms of work ethic, he's a different guy than the one Ted signed from Oakland.

[Scott Campbell]

I was asking myself this very question, pop by PR and see Mr Peabody (geez, I love that!) started the thread.

I give Al a ring, because he had a huge hand in developing Williams. Together with Woodson, they were coaches on the field for the whole secondary and if he was at team meeting, you just know he was giving the CBs tips etc.

I think it would be a great decision to have to make, because that woulkd mean the Packers actually have 150 rings paid for by the NFL!


I'm sure there are a lot of people toiling in obscurity in the front office that we've never heard of that will get rings.

[Tarlam!]

Forgetting Tramon for a moment, I've wondered if Harris had an influence on Woodson. In terms of work ethic, he's a different guy than the one Ted signed from Oakland.


Woodson remarked that his change in attitude is the Green Bay experience overall. He fell in love with the way the organisation is run, the way the fans treat the players etc. He said at the time of the deal, he was loathe to the place staying away from OTAs, but that changed within a year. Now he's a huge fan. No question for me he'll retire a Packer if allowed to. I'm sure Al will get a one day contract to retire a Packer, too.

[bobblehead]

I'm going the way of the liberal here. I am simply making a decision based purely on emotion. Al should get a ring. For battling to come back this season and coming up short. For being on the team in PuP capacity. For what he has done and means to most of the guys ON THIS SUPERBOWL TEAM.....but most importantly because it feels like the right thing to do. Name him an honorary coach and put him on the sideline for the game if it helps sell it, I believe he is a free agent.

[pbmax]

while on the PUP i don't think you are allowed to practice with the team. just saying.

He was off PUP for three weeks, practicing with the team.

[Smidgeon]

Woodson remarked that his change in attitude is the Green Bay experience overall. He fell in love with the way the organisation is run, the way the fans treat the players etc. He said at the time of the deal, he was loathe to the place staying away from OTAs, but that changed within a year. Now he's a huge fan. No question for me he'll retire a Packer if allowed to. I'm sure Al will get a one day contract to retire a Packer, too.

Players do not retire as part of a team in the NFL HOF.

[RUnuts]

I like the guy, give him a ring. End of discussion.

btw, I watched the movie "Leatherheads" in case you don't think I know football.

[Tarlam!]

Players do not retire as part of a team in the NFL HOF.

I'm aware of that; I made no mention of the NFL HOF and I doubt either player is a candidate anyway. Players frequently, however, return to the place they enjoyed playing the most, receive a contract for a day and lodge their retirement papers ceremoniously, thus retiring as a "insert your team here".

[BZnDallas]

I'm aware of that; I made no mention of the NFL HOF and I doubt either player is a candidate anyway. Players frequently, however, return to the place they enjoyed playing the most, receive a contract for a day and lodge their retirement papers ceremoniously, thus retiring as a "insert your team here".


i agree with Tarlam.. don't players do this alot?.. didn't Jerry Rice sign a one day deal with the niners?... it seems vaguely familiar

[MadtownPacker]

When was Harris on the team this year?
If Harris had been cut in training camp, would you give him a ring?
Whether or not a guy is placed on PUP is really just luck of timing.
Blackmon was on the TC roster, Harris was not.
Blackmon I believe was on IR for a day or two, Harris was not.

When time came to decide if Harris was on the team, he was released, just as he would have been in camp except for the fact that he was PUP eligible. All the PUP designation did was allow them to delay the decision.

How about the guys that came and went from the practice squad. Should they get rings if the Packers win?
Looks like you need to get your ears clipped so you can really hear what I am saying, he should get one cuz he is Al Harris. Bottom line that is reason enough for me. If you dont have the same senitments that's on you. Like others have mentioned there is a good chance he doesn't accept but he is deserving of the gesture.

[Patler]

Looks like you need to get your ears clipped so you can really hear what I am saying, he should get one cuz he is Al Harris.

WOW! There's a convincing argument! "...because he is Al Harris". Leave it to you to fill us with new information, a new thought. If someone had brought that up before, I might have been convinced. Did you have to do a lot of research to discover that???

Yup, give him a ring! I see it now!

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck no Will Blackmon dont deserve one. Al Harris did alot for this team for YEARS and he was on the team THIS year. I think he should get one cuz I believe he played a big part in mentoring the youngsters. I think he should get one because has been nothing short of loyal and I bet would have loved to stay on the team if it had been up to him. I would give him one because he returned that TD in OT against Seattle. I would give him one for locking down his sign of the field for years. I would give him one for being a Packer that actually deserves one. Not just because it would be a nice gesture.

I would give him one because he is Al Harris. Why do you feel he shouldn't get one? Should Barnett? Finley? Harrell? get one?


WOW! There's a convincing argument! "...because he is Al Harris". Leave it to you to fill us with new information, a new thought. If someone had brought that up before, I might have been convinced. Did you have to do a lot of research to discover that???

Yup, give him a ring! I see it now!

I already gave you my reasoning on the post quoted above so save the "I know you are but what I am" tactics. It is beneath you. That wasnt fucking good enough for you because you dont FEEL the same. Well tough shit, but dont try to shut me down cuz you dont agree. In fact why the fuck dont you tell us why he SHOULDN'T get one??

[green_bowl_packer]

Forgetting Tramon for a moment, I've wondered if Harris had an influence on Woodson. In terms of work ethic, he's a different guy than the one Ted signed from Oakland.

Neon Deion said the exact same thing after the Falcons game on NFLN he was effusive in his praise, that Al's presence had shaped the entire group not only Tramon, but especially Woodson by reviving competition within the group and setting an example for practice and preparation. Who knows he may be right, could know something we don't know.

As I remember it, Charles probably earned his reputation later in his career (tuck rule shit probably drove him to drink), didn't he get caught drunk in public with an ex-packer safety from the Sherman era? I remember this guy #20? was with Pack for a year or two had a bunch of picks then traded to the Raiders, where evidently he became Charles drinking buddy.

Woodson being a captain, if he wants to give him one, he'll try to get him one, and I'd be all for it - means they won the game and that's all I care about. But, based on the team picture thing, I'd bet there would be limitations placed on who you could vote for.

[Freak Out]

Is there precedent for giving someone a ring who was cut during the season?

[steve823]

Glad to see some people agree with me in that Al should get a ring. If there was an organization that would reward a player like Al Harris, it would be the Packers. People seem to forget real quick that he's been a leader on GB for years and he fought back from a devastating injury to be a part of the Pack.

[bobblehead]

Neon Deion said the exact same thing after the Falcons game on NFLN he was effusive in his praise, that Al's presence had shaped the entire group not only Tramon, but especially Woodson by reviving competition within the group and setting an example for practice and preparation. Who knows he may be right, could know something we don't know.


I don't want to get in the habit of agreeing with Deion, but I agree 100%. When you are on a team that has a guy like Al working his ass off, playing the part of the warrior, you have to be shameless to not pick it up yourself. Chuck isn't shameless. Nobody who cuts it in the NFL for long is shameless. Harris had a positive impact on the organization. Give him a lifetime achievement ring.

[Smidgeon]

I'm aware of that; I made no mention of the NFL HOF and I doubt either player is a candidate anyway. Players frequently, however, return to the place they enjoyed playing the most, receive a contract for a day and lodge their retirement papers ceremoniously, thus retiring as a "insert your team here".

Okay. Misread your previous post. Apologies.

[Patler]

I already gave you my reasoning on the post quoted above so save the "I know you are but what I am" tactics. It is beneath you. That wasnt fucking good enough for you because you dont FEEL the same. Well tough shit, but dont try to shut me down cuz you dont agree. In fact why the fuck dont you tell us why he SHOULDN'T get one??


(SIGH) Apparently you have not read what I have written, and now you ask me to prove a negative. There doesn't have to a reason for not giving him a ring, there has to be a reason TO give him a ring. The Packers won't determine who doesn't get a ring, they will determine who met criteria to entitle them to a ring. But, relevant factors are:

1. Harris never was on the 53 man roster.
2. Harris never was on IR.

In short, he never had any status on the 2010 team. The PUP list is a limbo status which a player can qualify for based on timing. If Harris had not been PUP eligible, he likely would have been released just like Will Blackmon. When his status in limbo expired, he was released. In short, I do not think there is a reason that would obligate the Packers to give him a ring, and for that reason I have disputed the reasons that people have given.

I really do not care if they give him a ring or not; and I think you do have the only valid reason for giving him a ring, which I attempted to acknowledge in a flippant sort of way so it wouldn't go to you head. Instead it apparently went right over your head!

If I were GM, I don't know for sure how I would decide; but I would look to previous Packer championship years for precedent, and I might talk to other GMs to see if they had similar situations. None of us knows what influence positive, negative or ambivalent that Harris had on the team this year. Fortunately, TT does know; and I will be satisfied with whatever decision he makes if the Packers win.

[pbmax]

(SIGH) Apparently you have not read what I have written, and now you ask me to prove a negative. There doesn't have to a reason for not giving him a ring, there has to be a reason TO give him a ring. The Packers won't determine who doesn't get a ring, they will determine who met criteria to entitle them to a ring. But, relevant factors are:

1. Harris never was on the 53 man roster.
2. Harris never was on IR.

In short, he never had any status on the 2010 team. The PUP list is a limbo status which a player can qualify for based on timing. If Harris had not been PUP eligible, he likely would have been released just like Will Blackmon. When his status in limbo expired, he was released. In short, I do not think there is a reason that would obligate the Packers to give him a ring, and for that reason I have disputed the reasons that people have given.

I really do not care if they give him a ring or not; and I think you do have the only valid reason for giving him a ring, which I attempted to acknowledge in a flippant sort of way so it wouldn't go to you head. Instead it apparently went right over your head!

If I were GM, I don't know for sure how I would decide; but I would look to previous Packer championship years for precedent, and I might talk to other GMs to see if they had similar situations. None of us knows what influence positive, negative or ambivalent that Harris had on the team this year. Fortunately, TT does know; and I will be satisfied with whatever decision he makes if the Packers win.

Would practice squad players be given a ring? What about practice squad players who went elsewhere to play? Practice squad members ties to the team are far more nebulous and arbitrary than players on PUP with a fully vested veteran contract.

Harris was off PUP for close to 3 weeks and practiced with the team. PUP is no more limbo than IR, except the term is different.

If the Practice Squad gets a ring, Harris should be offered one. Especially true if PS players who left or were waived get one.

[Patler]

Would practice squad players be given a ring? What about practice squad players who went elsewhere to play? Practice squad members ties to the team are far more nebulous and arbitrary than players on PUP with a fully vested veteran contract.

Harris was off PUP for close to 3 weeks and practiced with the team. PUP is no more limbo than IR, except the term is different.

If the Practice Squad gets a ring, Harris should be offered one. Especially true if PS players who left or were waived get one.

I asked that question early on, about PS players who came and went during the season. But PS players do work at helping prepare the team. They practice with the team. PUP players do not. The time after PUP, of which Harris had the maximum allowed 3 weeks, is an extended tryout more akin to TC than anything else. He was run through the paces to see what he could do. I doubt he was running scout team plays helping to prepare the 53 man roster, and if he did, I doubt it was much.

I doubt all PS players will get a ring, especially ones who were in GB only a few weeks. The Saints didn't even give a ring to one of their IR guys who was a veteran. Dan Campbell went on IR and left town shortly thereafter. It was his first year with the Saints. The Saints did not give him a ring.

That raises questions about two players on the Packers IR list. Bell and Levine. Bell went on IR early in training camp. Levine was put on IR at the final cutdown. Should they get rings? Bell was on the roster for a couple games last year, but Levine was an undrafted free agent this year. Should either of them get a ring if the Packers win? I don't know if either of them has stayed in town or not. Should that matter, especially if they have a home and family elsewhere?

[Pugger]

Interesting article on how Saints handled it last year. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/06/new_orleans_saints_general_man_7.html
One thing I noted is that the team apparently can give out as many rings as it wants. The league pays for the first 150.

I wish the team could give rings to all of us shareholders!! ;-)

[Pugger]

i agree with Tarlam.. don't players do this alot?.. didn't Jerry Rice sign a one day deal with the niners?... it seems vaguely familiar

I think Marco Rivera signed a one day deal too a couple of years ago.

[Pugger]

But seriously, if a player is not on the active roster, IR or PS they shouldn't get a ring. I like Al too but he isn't a Packer now.

[pbmax]

I asked that question early on, about PS players who came and went during the season. But PS players do work at helping prepare the team. They practice with the team. PUP players do not. The time after PUP, of which Harris had the maximum allowed 3 weeks, is an extended tryout more akin to TC than anything else. He was run through the paces to see what he could do. I doubt he was running scout team plays helping to prepare the 53 man roster, and if he did, I doubt it was much.

While I don't think "because he is Al Harris" is any categorical basis to award a ring, I do think his situation (injury and PUP) and history overcome the lack of participation in scout team snaps. And I am not sure a first year with the team player like the Saints' Campbell compares with Harris. I guess the argument comes down to his history with the team, an active contract with the team during the season and time spent practicing with the team. I find that compelling.

[Fritz]

I feel like this is becoming as dramatic as an engagement ring proposal. Will they give Al a ring? Will he accept it if they do?

I'm so nervous!

[pbmax]

I feel like this is becoming as dramatic as an engagement ring proposal. Will they give Al a ring? Will he accept it if they do?

I'm so nervous!

This thread will be the new Favre thread. Debated throughout the ages. Just wait til Al plays for the Vikings and has a shot at another ring while on PUP. Pandemonium.

[bobblehead]

But seriously, if a player is not on the active roster, IR or PS they shouldn't get a ring. I like Al too but he isn't a Packer now.

But seriously, he was around the team for more than half the season. Practiced with the team for 3 weeks. Spent more time in GB doing rehab than Nick Barnett. Helped us prepare for at least the 3 games he participated in practice for. Was more a part of this team than the guys on the PS right now.

While I am at it...what is the HUGE differentiation between spending 6 weeks on PuP and 3 more practicing with an exemption and being on IR rehabbing in Florida since week 1? I personally see no diff between PuP and IR other than a technicality that allows a player to come back that season if he isn't able to start the season. PuP is a form of IR.

[Smidgeon]

If the Packers had IR'd him instead of releasing him after PUP, this would be a non-issue. But that wouldn't have been fair to Al since TT knew that he didn't have a spot on the team anymore due to the play of Williams and Shields.

[Patler]

While I am at it...what is the HUGE differentiation between spending 6 weeks on PuP and 3 more practicing with an exemption and being on IR rehabbing in Florida since week 1? I personally see no diff between PuP and IR other than a technicality that allows a player to come back that season if he isn't able to start the season. PuP is a form of IR.

Most (not all) players on IR were on the 53 man active roster at some point in the season. They had "made the team".

You could also say that PUP is no more than a delayed or extended training camp, and training camp players who are released generally are not considered for rings.

[bobblehead]

Most (not all) players on IR were on the 53 man active roster at some point in the season. They had "made the team".

You could also say that PUP is no more than a delayed or extended training camp, and training camp players who are released generally are not considered for rings.

you could say that, but you would be wrong. PuP is a temporary injured list. If it was for non injured players it would be called the extended training camp list and Breno Giacomini would have been on it....but its for players who are injured early/prior to training camp. Not one poster would argue that if fully healthy Al Harris would have made the team.

[mraynrand]

If the Packers had IR'd him instead of releasing him after PUP, this would be a non-issue. But that wouldn't have been fair to Al since TT knew that he didn't have a spot on the team anymore due to the play of Williams and Shields.


I get your point here, but you sort of missed the mark. Al wanted to play, that's why TT didn't IR him. Bobble's right - a healthy Al Harris would have made the 53 man roster after training camp, but by the time he came off PUP, he wasn't good enough to make it.

As to whether he should get a ring or not, I don't care - that's up to the team. If I were in Al Harris' shoes though, I wouldn't take a ring, cuz I never played a down. Ryan Grant? I'd take it, but I wouldn't be bragging about it - it would be like showing off a purple heart you got for falling out of a jeep on the way to the front.

[Patler]

you could say that, but you would be wrong. PuP is a temporary injured list. If it was for non injured players it would be called the extended training camp list and Breno Giacomini would have been on it....but its for players who are injured early/prior to training camp. Not one poster would argue that if fully healthy Al Harris would have made the team.

Of course it is a delayed training camp, a training camp for those unable to participate in the regular training camp due to injury. Their training camp is delayed 6 weeks. That's the entire philosophy behind the PUP list. Since they are not able to participate in camp due to their pre-camp condition, they do not have a chance to "make the team" so they are given another chance 6 weeks later. Then the team has 3 weeks in their "delayed tryout" to decide if they "make the team" and are placed on the 53 man roster, are still injured and put on IR, or do not "make the team" and are released.

Harris had the same exact opportunity that Blackmon had, only 6 weeks after Blackmon. He had the same result as Blackmon had. He didn't make the team.

What do you mean, "Not one poster would argue that if fully healthy Al Harris would have made the team."? Do you mean if he had not been injured? That's irrelevant. The final event in a lot of careers is an injury that an older veteran never recovers from sufficiently to play.

[MJZiggy]

He was under contract with the team for 9 weeks of the season. No, he didn't get to play. Still, he had a hand in us getting there. There was nothing that Tramon Williams learned from Al Harris? If Al taught him anything this season, while he was under contract with the team, then I'd suggest calling him a temporary coach if we have to, but the Packers brought him back and held him on the team for half the season. He has had an influence on the play of the CBs THIS season. I think he deserves the metal and a coaching job depending on who we lose after the big game.

[Smidgeon]

I get your point here, but you sort of missed the mark. Al wanted to play, that's why TT didn't IR him. Bobble's right - a healthy Al Harris would have made the 53 man roster after training camp, but by the time he came off PUP, he wasn't good enough to make it.

As to whether he should get a ring or not, I don't care - that's up to the team. If I were in Al Harris' shoes though, I wouldn't take a ring, cuz I never played a down. Ryan Grant? I'd take it, but I wouldn't be bragging about it - it would be like showing off a purple heart you got for falling out of a jeep on the way to the front.

I wasn't trying to get or make a point. Just sharing an observation I stumbled upon.

[Freak Out]

No.

[esoxx]

Yes

[swede]

Maybe

[mraynrand]

Perchance

[mraynrand]

I wasn't trying to get or make a point. Just sharing an observation I stumbled upon.


I get the observation you shared, but it sort of missed the mark.

[gbgary]

definitely

[pbmax]

Defiantly.

[Joemailman]

http://www.filmsnmovies.com/media/posts/000445.jpg

[vince]

http://www.filmsnmovies.com/media/posts/000445.jpg
I'm sold.

[pbmax]

http://www.filmsnmovies.com/media/posts/000445.jpg


I'm sold.

She looks studious.

[Freak Out]

Ok......yes.

[gbgary]

did you see the teacher's hand sticking out of the desk?

[PA Pack Fan]

Whats with all the Al Harris man love going around? I'd take Sam Shields or Tramon any day of the week over Al Haris. No ring.

[Tarlam!]

http://www.filmsnmovies.com/media/posts/000445.jpg

I have a daughter this age and of the same caliber, she just happens to be blonde. She still asks my permission to have girlfriends over. What, am I stupid? Of course I allow it!

[Joemailman]

I have a daughter this age and of the same caliber, she just happens to be blonde. She still asks my permission to have girlfriends over. What, am I stupid? Of course I allow it!

Bretsky may be paying you a visit.

[bobblehead]

Whats with all the Al Harris man love going around? I'd take Sam Shields or Tramon any day of the week over Al Haris. No ring.

True, but you hate al harris. He likely slept with your wife or something its so irrational. I agree though, that right now, either of those 2 are better.

[swede]

Bretsky may be paying you a visit.

He didn't say he had twins.

[Iron Mike]

Get him a championship belt to wear.....

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ww/wwe-world-heavyweight-championship-belt.jpg

[channtheman]

I don't think so. Only way he gets a ring is if there is an extra one just lying around. Would Harris even want to accept a ring for a Super Bowl that he didn't help win?