WHY ISN'T THE HAWK SOARING? SHOULD WE START TO WORRY?

[gbpackfan]

I am starting to read more and more that rookie LB AJ Hawk isn't making the type of plays that a top 5 pick should make. I watched Family Night over and over and only watched Hawk during one of those viewings. Hawk was always "right there" but just a second too late as another Packer had the ball carrier wrapped up. He got stoned on his attempt to russ the passer and blew a coverage on the TE. Hawk looked like he was thinking too much and not playing enough. I will say that he was covering the FB and the TE out of the back-field a lot. Except for that one blown coverage, he was always in position. Should we be worried? I can't wait to see the game on Sat. to get a real "read" on his progress but I would have liked to have read some more training camp reports praising his play.

Here is a portion of Chrisl't camp report from today, Aug. 9, 2006. AJ Hawk is the "thumbs down."

THUMBS DOWN

If linebacker coach Winston Moss has been at all disappointed in rookie A.J. Hawk’s play to this point, he isn’t willing to admit it, at least not publicly. Moss said he sees a “very talented player” with some pop to his game. “He has all the tools,” said Moss. “He’s still learning the defense. Once he settles down, people are going to be pleased.”

But after 15 practices, Hawk hasn’t stuck out in a way that you’d expect from the fifth pick in the draft. Third-round choice Abdul Hodge seems to have more snap to his game, at least to this point. The big-time hitters at linebacker have a knack for rolling their hips and striking with such force that they’ll even jolt a 300-plus pound lineman. If Hawk has that kind of explosiveness, it hasn’t been apparent from the sidelines. More often, he seems to get engulfed with blockers and even take bad angles to the ball. And like most rookies, Hawk has struggled with pass coverage.

Maybe there’s no reason for alarm at this point. Maybe Moss is right, that it will only be a matter of time before Hawk starts making people take notice. After all, Moss has an up-close look on the field and then watches every practice over again on tape. Moreover, Hawk hasn’t even played an exhibition game yet. But fifth picks in the draft are supposed to be special players; players who jump out on the practice field. And so far, Hawk has been hard to find. Not only is he short at 6-foot-1, but he also looks light in the shorts.

[BallHawk]

It depends what your definition of "playmaker" is.

[gbpackfan]

It's whatever you want it to be. You are the one answering it. Now you're over-thinking! Is this AJ???

[Deputy Nutz]

I guess the question could have been, "did Thompson overvalue the outside linebacker position by taking Hawk with the 5th overall pick?"

I don't think so, but hey Hawk is the #5 player taken over all and if he is not leaping over tall buildings and saving people from burning building the media and fans are going to have a disappointed outlook.

There is a lot let pressure on Hodge to succeed right now, yes he is good player but he is not even a starter yet. Hawk has been thrust into the starting lineup from day one, he is expected to be a team leader right off the bat, plus learn all his assignments on the fly. He also missed most of the OTAs and had only been to the first mini camp.

We also have to remember that we are rating him at practice, practices are intense, but in no way are they as intense as even a pre-season game. Time will tell with all rookies but remember, Hawk is under a microscope, and usually when a player like Hawk is under that microscope they are going to be nitpicked to death.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I guess the question could have been, "did Thompson overvalue the outside linebacker position by taking Hawk with the 5th overall pick?"

I don't think so, but hey Hawk is the #5 player taken over all and if he is not leaping over tall buildings and saving people from burning building the media and fans are going to have a disappointed outlook.

There is a lot let pressure on Hodge to succeed right now, yes he is good player but he is not even a starter yet. Hawk has been thrust into the starting lineup from day one, he is expected to be a team leader right off the bat, plus learn all his assignments on the fly. He also missed most of the OTAs and had only been to the first mini camp.

We also have to remember that we are rating him at practice, practices are intense, but in no way are they as intense as even a pre-season game. Time will tell with all rookies but remember, Hawk is under a microscope, and usually when a player like Hawk is under that microscope they are going to be nitpicked to death.

I agree, give the guy a break. We haven't even had a preseason game yet and people are disappointed in him already. That can only mean to things: 1) Basically what Nutz said, and 2) we are to in tuned with the team and have become obsessed fans.

[RashanGary]

Linebackers carry big load in new defense
Players embrace scheme brought in by Bates
By RICK BRAUN
rbraun@journalsentinel.com


Green Bay - In 2004, the Green Bay Packers' defense supposedly was going to be built around the talents of safety Darren Sharper.

That defense is gone, and so is Sharper.

Enter Jim Bates, the Packers' new defensive coordinator, and a new defensive scheme.

One of the features of Bates' scheme is that linebackers are expected to make plays. In Miami, Zach Thomas became a Pro Bowl middle linebacker, overcoming concerns that he might have been a bit on the small side for a linebacker.

For the 2005 Packers, it's pretty much a given that Nick Barnett and Na'il Diggs will be two of the three starting linebackers. Diggs has been practicing at both strong and weak side. Ray Thompson and incumbent Hannibal Navies are vying for the other starting spot, with draft pick Brady Poppinga and backup Paris Lenon also in the mix.

For Barnett, the new defense is a breath of fresh air.

"I'm hoping," Barnett said when asked if the new system allows linebackers to excel. "We're always around the ball to make plays and it's just on us to make the plays. It's a great scheme for the linebackers, obviously, because we get to run around and hit people and make plays.

"We're not restricted to one gap; we're able to play the play instead of just playing our responsibilities and hitting just one gap and staying there. We're able to move around and make plays, and that's the difference between this defense and last year's defense."

More freedom to make plays gives Barnett hope that the defense will also be one he has more fun playing.

"Initially it makes it a harder system to learn," Barnett said. "There's a lot to learn. There's a lot of checks and a lot of things that we have to do initially. But once we get it down, it's going to be a funner defense and a harder defense for the offense to determine where we're going to be at. Before, we were going to the A gap and they knew we were going to be there. Now, we can be a player and make plays."

Diggs, who finished second to Barnett in tackles for the second consecutive season last year, noted the responsibility that comes with playing linebacker in a Bates defense.

"I think the linebacker position is the hardest position on the field in this defense," Diggs said. "I don't know if it's necessarily geared for the linebackers to make plays, I think it's geared for everybody to make plays. Everybody is able to be in a great position to make hits on the ball, including the D-linemen. The way I see it is we have a very challenging position, but I don't think there's any way it's specifically geared for the linebackers."

Bates wouldn't go so far as to say his defense is designed for linebackers.

"Well, everybody's got to make plays," Bates said. "Last year (in Miami) we had a defensive tackle with 102 tackles.

"It takes every part to be good in any defense, but in our defense you've got to be strong up the middle in the running game. Linebackers got to be able to match backs and tight ends in coverage and corners got to be able to bump and run. Safeties got to be just what the word says, safeties. They've got to be over the top and not allow anything deep in the run or pass. They've got to control the running game as far as keeping the big runs down to a minimum if they pop a seam. The defensive ends have always been big in our scheme as far as making a lot of sacks."

But in most defenses, linebackers lead in tackles. That's clearly the case in Bates' defense, where Thomas was a perennial leader in tackles with the Dolphins.

And Bates admitted that the linebackers carry just a bit more responsibility.

"That's the position that's probably hardest to learn within the scheme because they've got run-pass reads right at the snap of the ball," Bates said. "They're only 4½ yards off the line of scrimmage and we play a lot of matchup, and that takes longer than any other position to come to the front."

Sure, all parts have to play well for a defense to succeed. But linebackers coach Mark Duffner believes the system should be especially good for his troops.

"In watching the Miami defense over the years - especially the last couple years - their linebackers have been real productive and real participants in terms of making hits," Duffner said. "A lot of it is reflected in how the line plays. Their line has really been able to capture the line of scrimmage and then those linebackers would come in and make plays, so it's good for the productivity of the linebackers.

"Our guys are coming along. I'm pleased with the effort they've put into it. It's a new scheme, a new terminology, it's a little different form of technique, but we've made steps forward. We're not where we need to be yet, that's for darn sure, but they've made some progress. We've got a lot of them kicking (butt) and being productive."

Whether it is "geared for the linebackers," the system needs its linebackers to play at a very high level.

One thing that makes that possible, according to Diggs and Barnett, is the fact that the defense should be a lot less predictable when it comes to opposing offenses.

"Oh, yeah. That's one good thing about it," Diggs said. "Scheme-wise, this defense is going to give a lot of problems to the offense, including ours - West Coast, whatever kind of offense you decide to run - just because there are so many variations, so many looks. Something could look like something else that you saw earlier in the game but it could be totally different, which is good."

Having already led the Packers in tackles in his first two seasons, Barnett is eager to see how the system works out for himself and the rest of the linebackers. But he's not concerned so much about statistics.

"I'm just hoping to get to the playoffs and then to the Super Bowl," Barnett said. "I'm not worried about tackles or any of that. I'm just here to make plays and try to make the Packer defense the best in the NFC and in the NFL."

[Lare]

IMO, special players are apparent anytime they step on the field be it practices, scrimmages or games.

Hawk was drafted at, and is being paid at, the level of a special player. If he truly is one, there should at least be flashes of it at some point. While it may well happen, it doesn't sound to me like anybody has seen any indication of it yet.

[RashanGary]

With that artical in mind, it sound liek the LB upgrade was needed adn should pay dividends.

[Packnut]

I think it's way to early to worry about Hawk right now. Give the guy some time and let him adjust. Let's watch the pre-season and judge him after that.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

"I'm just hoping to get to the playoffs and then to the Super Bowl," Barnett said. "I'm not worried about tackles or any of that. I'm just here to make plays and try to make the Packer defense the best in the NFC and in the NFL."


Not what he said in that other article that everyone is talking about in the other thread.

[No Mo Moss]

This is so like Packer Fans. We give the guy two weeks and not even a pre-season game before we start to worry about him being a bust. Look he is not going to be a bust. Worse case scenario is you get a guy like Dan Morgan. All is good.

[Spaulding]

Hawk's tentativeness is likely due to missing the OTA's per NFL rules for draftees still taking finals.

I think it's just a matter of time until he builds his confidence and starts to shine.

[Rastak]

This is so like Packer Fans. We give the guy two weeks and not even a pre-season game before we start to worry about him being a bust. Look he is not going to be a bust. Worse case scenario is you get a guy like Dan Morgan. All is good.


Well No No, worse case you get Brian Bosworth.....but seriously, I agree....Geez, I'd start to worry after the preseason and even then it might be too early.

[gbpackfan]

This is so like Packer Fans. We give the guy two weeks and not even a pre-season game before we start to worry about him being a bust. Look he is not going to be a bust. Worse case scenario is you get a guy like Dan Morgan. All is good.


I am not sure what "this is so like Packer fans" is suppose to mean, but I think it is normal to expect flashes of greatness from a top 5 draft pick. I haven't read to many reports that indicate that he has showed up big at even one practice. Now, I think he will be a good LB but I want a great one! Shouldn't Hawk be getting some articles written about his play? Instead, Hodge is the one getting all the headlines. It should make Packer fans wonder!

[Rastak]

This is so like Packer Fans. We give the guy two weeks and not even a pre-season game before we start to worry about him being a bust. Look he is not going to be a bust. Worse case scenario is you get a guy like Dan Morgan. All is good.


I am not sure what "this is so like Packer fans" is suppose to mean, but I think it is normal to expect flashes of greatness from a top 5 draft pick. I haven't read to many reports that indicate that he has showed up big at even one practice. Now, I think he will be a good LB but I want a great one! Shouldn't Hawk be getting some articles written about his play? Instead, Hodge is the one getting all the headlines. It should make Packer fans wonder!


Well, how many players dominate training camp before pre season? I don't know the answer but if after Saturdays game the guy doesn't do a damn thing you can at least ask the question I guess.

[RIPackerFan]

Hawk was considered the safest pick in the draft by most analysts - a player that did not have some of the "freak" skills that Reggie Bush, Mario Williams, Vince Young. However, he is a tough, hard-working football player, who will make your team better. That is why he was safe.

Thus, I never expected miracles from the guy, since I don't think that what he ever was. I expect him to do exactly what he is doing this early in camp - playing hard and learning. He seems to have caught on to what he needs to do - and is in the right place most of the time. He is still thinking too much, but that will go away in a few more weeks (really, he learned a whole new defense in one week).

I think he will be a strong starter for the entire year - maybe even better. Heck, who else were we going to pick in the first round - Davis?. It looks like he can't even crack the starting lineup.

"The 49ers are in no rush to make top round draft choice Vernon Davis a starter. The brilliantly-fast tight end has yet to stand out in practice, and that might be because he hasn't learned the offense."
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn?blogid=10

[HarveyWallbangers]

Has Chad Greenway broken into the starting lineup yet or is E.J. Henderson still outplaying him?
:D

[gbpackfan]

Man, I just want Sat. to be here already!

[Patler]

Half-way through his first training camp, Brian Urlacher was declared "not ready for the NFL" was ripped by one of the assistant coaches, and was demoted to second team. As I recall, the coach said he was doing "nothing out there" or something to that effect. Some in the Chicago press quickly jumped on the "wasted pick" story. Urlacher did not start the first two regular season games. The third game he was moved back into the starting lineup.

Give Hawk a chance to adjust before you panic.

Hodge may be playing with more intensity right now, but none of us knows which is playing better, ie with fewer mistakes.

[cheesner]

He should be cut. Lets not waste more time on him. He has not won a superbowl for us, and he has been signed now for over TWO weeks! Get rid of this bum.

[GrnBay007]

He should be cut. Lets not waste more time on him. He has not won a superbowl for us, and he has been signed now for over TWO weeks! Get rid of this bum.

Wow.....I just had a flashback to the JSO forum where if you did not post that someone needed to be fired or dumped you were a worthless poster and freak of nature. :razz:

Oh yeah, welcome to Packer Rats cheesner!

[Packers4Glory]

I'm sure others have said it, but w/o reading the entire thread...

I'm an impatient person by nature, but worrying about a rookie LB before a single preseason game has been played is completely retarded. Hell w/ rookies I won't worry much at all the first season unless they just tank like a Jamal Reynolds. But crap he hasn't even played his first preseason game. so if you are freaking out because the press isn't going ga-ga over his "practice" performance, then I'd suggest paxil or some other form of anti-depressant.

[Terry]

Well, there is another perspective than that of those guys who figure a special player or great player should show some flashes of that specialness/greatness every time they come to a practice or preseason game. I mean, it could be seen as a good sign.

Some genius is confident enough in itself that it doesn't feel the need or accept the pressure to be constantly showing their worth. Sure, some do, and they do show the things people are looking for, but they also tend to show a lot of bloopers. Others, however, are more methodical in approaching their task. Maybe Hawk is one of those types of players. Maybe, just maybe, he knows he'll be around for a long time and he wants to be sure that his grounding is rock solid before he lets fly or gets creative. Such a person can be just careful early on.

As has been mentioned, Hawk missed most of the summer to date because of school rules. Right now, maybe he's just trying to catch up and truly assimilate all there is to learn. He wouldn't be able to really shine anyway until he had all those intricacies set in his bones, so to speak, so that he never has to think. When you learn things well enough so that your reactions and instincts are pre-cognitive, THEN you can forget about everything but the moment and THEN you can really let go. In the meantime, flashing one's talent might not be foremost on the mind (though I'm sure he feels the pressure).

Is Hawk one of those guys? Who knows? Time will tell. But certainly, we cannot say anything at all at this point. Patler's example of Brian Urlacher was a case in point. Whatever the result, I think we'll know what we have in Hawk later in the season. Hell, we didn't know what we had in Walker for a year and a half. My suspicion is that Hawk will be rock solid, if not better.

[test]

isn't it a wee bit early to be calling him a bust?

[Bretsky]

WAY too early; Hawk is just finding this a lot to digest. He'll be fine as a starter.

[gbpackfan]

These posts are like the telephone game we used to play as kids. It went from a simple question, should we be concerned, to calling him a BUST. HA HA HA. Whatever.

[woodbuck27]

Well, there is another perspective than that of those guys who figure a special player or great player should show some flashes of that specialness/greatness every time they come to a practice or preseason game. I mean, it could be seen as a good sign.

Some genius is confident enough in itself that it doesn't feel the need or accept the pressure to be constantly showing their worth. Sure, some do, and they do show the things people are looking for, but they also tend to show a lot of bloopers. Others, however, are more methodical in approaching their task. Maybe Hawk is one of those types of players. Maybe, just maybe, he knows he'll be around for a long time and he wants to be sure that his grounding is rock solid before he lets fly or gets creative. Such a person can be just careful early on.

As has been mentioned, Hawk missed most of the summer to date because of school rules. Right now, maybe he's just trying to catch up and truly assimilate all there is to learn. He wouldn't be able to really shine anyway until he had all those intricacies set in his bones, so to speak, so that he never has to think. When you learn things well enough so that your reactions and instincts are pre-cognitive, THEN you can forget about everything but the moment and THEN you can really let go. In the meantime, flashing one's talent might not be foremost on the mind (though I'm sure he feels the pressure).

Is Hawk one of those guys? Who knows? Time will tell. But certainly, we cannot say anything at all at this point. Patler's example of Brian Urlacher was a case in point. Whatever the result, I think we'll know what we have in Hawk later in the season. Hell, we didn't know what we had in Walker for a year and a half. My suspicion is that Hawk will be rock solid, if not better.

Good post Terry.

Where I come from simply, " he's just geting his feet wet " instead of diving right in. It's personality related.

Not to worry. :mrgreen:

GO HAWK ! GO PACKERS !!

[RashanGary]

gbp,

Nobody is calling him a bust. Everyone is saying it's too early to make judgement and are accutally patient enough to let him play a few games or even a season before we start to pass our long term judgement on him. You are the only one who keeps bringing up that him not shining in trainging camp means he's never going to shine. Well one other guy was obviously sarcastic but maybe you believed him. Cheezner I believe was the sarcastic one. Other than that we've all been saying relax and you keep bringing up how the top pick should be showing greatness early.

[Green Bud Packer]

when i start to hear other players or the coaches talking down hawk i'll be concerned. i consider the source,cliff christl. i remember noble ripping mandarich the first day he reported,and i remember mark lee praising leroy his first couple of weeks of camp. the players know who's who and i haven't heard any remarks about hawk except for barnett saying hawk was a starter based on his draft po.cliff christl can bite my ass.

[KYPack]

isn't it a wee bit early to be calling him a bust?

OK Matt.

Welcome aboard & all.

I thought your screen name meant "Test ban", like nuclear test ban.

IOW, I didn't get it.

Welcome aboard & all that stuff.

[No Mo Moss]

This is so like Packer Fans. We give the guy two weeks and not even a pre-season game before we start to worry about him being a bust. Look he is not going to be a bust. Worse case scenario is you get a guy like Dan Morgan. All is good.


I am not sure what "this is so like Packer fans" is suppose to mean, but I think it is normal to expect flashes of greatness from a top 5 draft pick. I haven't read to many reports that indicate that he has showed up big at even one practice. Now, I think he will be a good LB but I want a great one! Shouldn't Hawk be getting some articles written about his play? Instead, Hodge is the one getting all the headlines. It should make Packer fans wonder!

What "so like packer fans " is supposed to mean is...we are the biggest bunch of alarmists in the NFL. A guy skips an OTA and the world is crashing in. Barnett makes a comment and suddenly we're going to lose him. I find it crazy to even say anything about the guy at this point. They haven't done anything yet.

[jack's smirking revenge]

As always, I advocate patience. It is still preseason. Let's see him perform in a real game. I'm sure he'll be just fine.

tyler

[Terry]

Barnett said Hawk was a starter based on 37 million. :cool:

Yeah, true, no one has said he's a bust. But some have said they're worried. What for? Sure, we'd all be delighted if he came in a looked like a combination of The Thing and Mr. Fantastic. Fine. But not doing that is no reason for the converse reaction - i.e., 'worry'. Let's worry later. Now, we can live in the insecurity, which is where most of life is anyway. That's different than 'worry', which is fear of the future.

[KYPack]

Hawk will be OK.

But, he's got a long way to go.

I watched him in a practice on NFL network. He has miles to go in his technique. They were running a Back on Backer drill. Hawk was trying to shed the blocker using a one armed technique he undoubtedly used in college. That's fine & all, but it won't fly in the pros.

In pro shed technique you are supposed to rock back, gather yourself over both legs, then explode with each arm over a leg, like a piston. Hawkdoesn't have this one yet.

He's gotta learn all new reads and all new techniques. he's gotta learn how to shed and flow. He's gotta learn some swim and rip when he blitzes. 80% of what he knows now is worthless. He's a workaholic, & that will come in handy.

He's a good kid and I like him, but it's gonna get real ugly before it gets pretty and that will be awhile.