Foot in mouth

[ND72]

While I am still standing with what I've said about McCarthy, especially his play calling....the man has gotten us to a super bowl. The things I do like about him though is his development of a football team. So yes, I have had to try to pull my size 15 out of my mouth....but some things, play calling, I still worry about with him. But, for some reason, McCarthy seems like different coach right now, especially since the Detroit loss.

[Bretsky]

he seems to have grown ; earlier this year I thought he was top 10. Now I'd probably put him top 5

[mission]

My confidence has definitely grown with MM since the NE game. Detroit was my absolute lowest confidence point. I wanted him gone. I'll admit it if no one (Scott) will remind me.

I still have my concerns but I've also said he could never take us to a SB and I was wrong. A stupid 4th quarter blunder that potentially costs us the SB might get me right back on that box. Hopefully he wins and I'll concede 100%.

[Joemailman]

I'm not really sure MM has coached any differently the last 5 games. The injury situation has stabilized, and Starks has given the Packers some semblance of a running game.

[VegasPackFan]

I have always said that M3 is actually a great coach, but maybe not such a great game manager. By that I mean that prep, gameplan, player development are all top-notch, but play calling and general clock management/ challenge flag management not that great.

[VegasPackFan]

Anyone else notice how this new board will sometimes repeat a word if it is at the end of the line? Lots of posts have the same word at the end of the line and beginning of the next. Just sayin...

[Jimx29]

I'm almost 100% warmed up to him, but what still haunts me is his 2nd half adjustments/play calling. To many times this year he's come out and effed things up and cost us either the lead, or worse, the game. Of our 6 losses this year, we probably could of won 3 more had he not tinkered with what was working. Just win MM....just win

[Tarlam!]

It's up to Ted now. That Steelers team is awesome, well coached and disciplined.

M3 is a fantastic head coach that sometimes scews up the play calling. As of now, though, it's the depth of this team that will make the difference. If these guys actually win it's TT that we should all whorship.

[Gunakor]

Many analysts, most of whom have either played or coached in the NFL, have given great praise to MM's playcalling. Yet the fans look at the playcalling as the one thing holding MM back. Is it lofty expectations on the fan's part, or is it low standards on the analyst's part?

[RashanGary]

I'll put my foot in my mouth too. I call it game planning not play calling, but I thought MM was too dependent on the long pass and then when Flynn almost beat NE with nothing but the short throw, I think they changed. Even the greatest coach in NFL history (don't know who it was) but even he surely went too far in the wrong direction a time or two.

So maybe MM learned a lesson by how it wasn't working or maybe the run game opened up the offense. I don't know exactly what happened, but I was diving off cliffs after the Det game and bitching up a storm about us throwing deep way too often and it causing too many incompletions and sacks that stifled drives.

To mine and ND's credit though, I think both of us were bitching about the exesssive down field passing and it's just stopped. To MM's credit, maybe with no run game he was forced into some of that.

[VermontPackFan]

While I am still standing with what I've said about McCarthy, especially his play calling....the man has gotten us to a super bowl. The things I do like about him though is his development of a football team. So yes, I have had to try to pull my size 15 out of my mouth....but some things, play calling, I still worry about with him. But, for some reason, McCarthy seems like different coach right now, especially since the Detroit loss.

Weve all had to eat humble pie once in awhile so its nice to hear people man up and admit to mistakes. But you know what? It doesnt matter anymore! We are 4 days away from playing in the Super Bowl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No place better to eat humble pie than Dallas I say!!!

[Packers4Glory]

There are things I like about MM and things that drive me nuts. The good thing is he's learning and has the ship going the right way. Lost in the success, which I find as a huge key this yr, is finally finally finally getting the penalties under control.

Lots of coaches struggle w/ time management which is still his weakness. Having a great QB can cover up some of that and hopefully he continues to grow in that area.

[bobblehead]

Anyone else notice how this new board will sometimes repeat a word if it is at the end of the line? Lots of posts have the same word at the end of the line and beginning of the next. Just sayin...

resize your screen and I think it goes away...at least i haven't noticed it much since.

[3irty1]

The big change in MM this year for me is his sense of the future. I feel like he made a conscious effort to send messages to the future teams who would be watching the tape of his team. He would set a play up to work weeks before he ran it. We ran that stupid 15 yard backshoulder throw for weeks until guys finally started to cheat on it. Then Greg Jennings burned Vonte Davis for 86 yards on it. He did that stupid full back hand-off to Kuhn all season with little or no success until he turned it into a trick play where Jackson would have walked into the endzone had he not bobbled the pitch back (against the bears week 17?). He FORCED every defensive coordinator we'll ever play for the next two years to never sell out against in short yardage because there isn't a situation on Earth where McCarthy won't call a big play (last play of Lions game).

[mmmdk]

3, 4 or 5 and out, with 3-5 mins remaining in the game, you won't ever see McCarthy try eat up clock with a "big play" or "trick play, hardly even with playaction. This season it's been the defense stepping up in close games and hence the ultra conservative play calling with any lead but especially with close leads. However, the playoff game versus Falcons told another story - it was peddle to the meddle play calling. I love that gem of a game! Made me proud!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anybody think that maybe McCarthy got gun shy after getting poor results while not being conservative early in the year. Plus, as the year went on the defense proved it was a unit that could be depended on.

Here are some interesting stats for early in the year. (The moral being that McCarthy was not conservative early in the year and mainly got bad results for it.)

Week 1 vs. Philadelphia. Green Bay is up 27-17 with 10:15 left. Here were the plays:


1st-10, GB40 10:15 A. Rodgers incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, GB40 10:10 B. Jackson rushed to the left for 3 yard loss
3rd-13, GB37 9:14 N. Allen intercepted A. Rodgers for 11 yards

Not conservative. Bad results.

Week 3 vs. Chicago. Green Bay is up 10-7 early in the 4th quarter. Here were the plays:


1st-10, GB1 1:50 A. Rodgers passed to J. Finley to the left for 6 yard gain
2nd-4, GB7 1:11 A. Rodgers passed to D. Driver to the right for 3 yard gain
3rd-1, GB10 0:24 Green Bay committed 5 yard penalty
3rd-6, GB5 15:00 A. Rodgers incomplete pass to the right
4th-6, GB5 14:39 T. Masthay punt. D. Hester returned punt for 62 yard touchdown

Not conservative. Bad results.

Week 4 vs. Detroit. Green Bay is up 28-26 with 11:35 left. Here was the play:


1st-10, GB22 11:35 A. Smith intercepted A. Rodgers for no gain

Not conservative. Bad results.

Later in the game, Green Bay still up 28-26 with 6:32 left. Here were the plays:


1st-10, GB13 6:32 J. Kuhn rushed up the middle for 7 yard gain
2nd-3, GB20 5:53 J. Kuhn rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
1st-10, GB25 5:09 A. Rodgers passed to D. Driver to the right for 12 yard gain
1st-10, GB37 4:34 B. Jackson rushed to the left for 3 yard loss
2nd-13, GB34 3:51 A. Rodgers rushed to the right for 16 yard gain
1st-10, 50 3:02 J. Kuhn rushed to the left for 6 yard gain
2nd-4, DET44 2:19 J. Kuhn rushed to the left for 5 yard gain
1st-10, DET39 2:00 A. Rodgers passed to D. Lee to the left for 15 yard gain
1st-10, DET24 1:52 J. Kuhn rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, DET22 1:07 J. Kuhn rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
3rd-7, DET21 0:55 J. Kuhn rushed up the middle for 8 yard gain
1st-10, DET13 0:12 A. Rodgers rushed up the middle for 1 yard loss

Conservative. Good results. Ran out the clock.

Week 5 vs. Washington. Green Bay is up 13-3 with 14:09 left. Here were the plays:


1st-10, GB42 14:09 A. Rodgers sacked by P. Daniels
2nd-12, GB40 13:32 A. Rodgers passed to B. Jackson to the right for 1 yard loss
3rd-13, GB39 12:54 A. Rodgers passed to D. Driver down the middle for 5 yard gain
4th-8, GB44 12:11 T. Masthay punt. B. Banks returned punt for 30 yards

Not conservative. Bad results.

Later in the game, Green Bay is up 13-10 with 11:30 left. Here were the plays:


1st-10, GB17 11:30 A. Rodgers incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, GB17 11:24 A. Rodgers passed to J. Nelson down the middle for 25 yard gain
1st-10, GB42 10:48 A. Rodgers passed to D. Driver to the right for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, GB47 10:07 A. Rodgers passed to T. Crabtree to the right for 3 yard gain
3rd-2, 50 9:26 A. Rodgers incomplete pass down the middle
4th-2, 50 9:09 T. Masthay punt. B. Banks returned punt for 17 yards

Not conservative. Got one first down.

Week 7 vs. Minnesota. Green Bay is up 28-24 with 9:18 left. Here were the plays:


1st-10, GB23 9:18 B. Jackson rushed to the left for 1 yard loss
2nd-11, GB22 8:41 A. Rodgers incomplete pass to the left
3rd-11, GB22 8:37 A. Rodgers passed to G. Jennings down the middle for 15 yard gain
1st-10, GB37 7:51 A. Rodgers passed to J. Nelson to the right for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, GB42 7:12 J. Kuhn rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain
3rd-3, GB44 6:19 A. Rodgers incomplete pass to the right
4th-3, GB44 6:07 T. Masthay punt, no return

Not conserative. Got one first down.

[swede]

Ha ha, Harv. I am resistant to your persuasive, fact-based, historically accountable reasoning.

If I were drunk and in a bar I would have left to piss twice and lost my train of thought during a Buffalo Wild Wings commercial before you could have gotten to the third game in your eminently intelligent argument. Ha ha.

[gbgary]

i hope comes out guns blazing. set-up the run with the pass...not visa versa. stay on the gas the whole way unless we have a three touchdown lead.

[Fritz]

"he seems to have grown"

-Bretsky

I believe this occurred due to the Bikini Girls.

[bobblehead]

Harv, what many of those games have in common is less than 15 called running plays all game long.

[Bossman641]

I've said all along that MM was a good coach. Yes, he screws things up occasionally but I watch a lot of games and see other coaches screw them up as well. His ability to hold the team together has been the most impressive to me.

[Smeefers]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being pissed at MM when he makes mistakes. He does have some serious flaws that need to be addressed. I remember when he first came in and he said there were two types of penalties. The kind he didn't mind, as in action penalties and the kind he did mind, as in mental mistakes. Over the next 2 or 3 years we were atop the league in penalties. It started off that same way again this year and I was getting pretty pissed, but then after the bears game, the montra changed and all you heard out of every player and coach was "no penalty is okay." Since then we've been one of the least penalized teams in the game.

What I'm trying to say is that he can learn from his mistakes. A lot of people forget he's still young as a head coach and is still learning what works and what doesn't and learning that what works and what doesn't changes from year to year. He has some bad habits that he needs to stop. He shouldn't be fired, but he shouldn't be given a free pass either.

[Zool]

Ask Patriot fans what they think about the fake punt in the Pats/Jets game. That guy is universally described as the best coach in football. Go back a couple years to the 4th down call against the Colts. You can basically pick apart any coach if you so choose.

[Tony Oday]

Billicheat is good because of Polian...he sucked in Cleveland :)

My foot in mouth is for Bishop...Mr August showed he can bring in in later months too...Crosby still sucks

[retailguy]

While I am still standing with what I've said about McCarthy, especially his play calling....the man has gotten us to a super bowl. The things I do like about him though is his development of a football team. So yes, I have had to try to pull my size 15 out of my mouth....but some things, play calling, I still worry about with him. But, for some reason, McCarthy seems like different coach right now, especially since the Detroit loss.

This is well said, and I was right there with you. I'm not sure I'm trying to pull my foot out of my mouth, after all, the last 5 games don't make our performance any better in the dolphins, bears or redskins games earlier this year. I do believe criticism was earned and warranted from those performances.

That being said, there is very little that you can complain about from the last 5 games. Since Detroit really. A couple of bad plays in the loss at NE, but realistically one of McCarthy's best performances all year, imo.


he seems to have grown ; earlier this year I thought he was top 10. Now I'd probably put him top 5

I was in the "top 12-15" range earlier. I agree I'd move him up, but top 5? Yeah, if he wins. If he doesn't, then how does he perform in the 1st half of next season? If he keeps performing like he has for the past 5 games into next season, then I'm on the bandwagon. We have a trend of improvement over time, but we have some bad clunkers in the process. How consistent does he get?

At least it is now clear to anyone with a pulse that GB is not making an HC change, nor should they be.


My confidence has definitely grown with MM since the NE game. Detroit was my absolute lowest confidence point. I wanted him gone. I'll admit it if no one (Scott) will remind me.

I still have my concerns but I've also said he could never take us to a SB and I was wrong. A stupid 4th quarter blunder that potentially costs us the SB might get me right back on that box. Hopefully he wins and I'll concede 100%.

I doubted he could take us to an SB also, and I was also wrong. I hope next week, that I'll also have to say I was wrong about him being able to bring home the championship too.

Maybe it's time for Scott to be posting his mea culpa's instead of focusing on yours. He's got plenty too. Is he man enough to admit them? We'll see, won't we? :)

[mmmdk]

Anybody think that maybe McCarthy got gun shy after getting poor results while not being conservative early in the year. Plus, as the year went on the defense proved it was a unit that could be depended on.

Here are some interesting stats for early in the year. (The moral being that McCarthy was not conservative early in the year and mainly got bad results for it.)

Week 1 vs. Philadelphia. Green Bay is up 27-17 with 10:15 left. Here were the plays:



Not conservative. Bad results.

Week 3 vs. Chicago. Green Bay is up 10-7 early in the 4th quarter. Here were the plays:



Not conservative. Bad results.

Week 4 vs. Detroit. Green Bay is up 28-26 with 11:35 left. Here was the play:



Not conservative. Bad results.

Later in the game, Green Bay still up 28-26 with 6:32 left. Here were the plays:



Conservative. Good results. Ran out the clock.

Week 5 vs. Washington. Green Bay is up 13-3 with 14:09 left. Here were the plays:



Not conservative. Bad results.

Later in the game, Green Bay is up 13-10 with 11:30 left. Here were the plays:



Not conservative. Got one first down.

Week 7 vs. Minnesota. Green Bay is up 28-24 with 9:18 left. Here were the plays:



Not conserative. Got one first down.

This is a terrible analyse of what is conservative or not conservative play calling; so run is conservative and a pass not? Wow, I normally never utter this - but did you even watch the games? Sure as there's no heaven or hell; you didn't re-watch the games. Just a bunch of bullshit copy/paste posting. :bs:

A game that really sticks out, I've rewatched it & not merely copied the "play-by-play" list from boxscores, is the game versus Redskins. Please re-watch this :
1st-10, GB42 14:09 A. Rodgers sacked by P. Daniels
2nd-12, GB40 13:32 A. Rodgers passed to B. Jackson to the right for 1 yard loss
3rd-13, GB39 12:54 A. Rodgers passed to D. Driver down the middle for 5 yard gain
4th-8, GB44 12:11 T. Masthay punt. B. Banks returned punt for 30 yards

I'm gonna get back to this when I've got more time (currently tied up) to tear this poor post asunder - like a hot knife through butter!

Just...wow :shock:

[Cheesehead Craig]

I have always said that M3 is actually a great coach, but maybe not such a great game manager. By that I mean that prep, gameplan, player development are all top-notch, but play calling and general clock management/ challenge flag management not that great.

I'll nitpick on the challenge flag management. He's won far more than he lost this season. Wasn't he like 8 for 8 during one stretch this season?

[get louder at lambeau]

Ask Patriot fans what they think about the fake punt in the Pats/Jets game. That guy is universally described as the best coach in football. Go back a couple years to the 4th down call against the Colts. You can basically pick apart any coach if you so choose.

Quit making sense, Bubbles. Go feed your kitties.

[Smidgeon]

I'll nitpick on the challenge flag management. He's won far more than he lost this season. Wasn't he like 8 for 8 during one stretch this season?

I don't know about 8 for 8, but for a long stretch he had the best success rate for coaches in the NFC North.

[pbmax]

Welcome to the bandwagon everyone. There used to be plenty of room.

And yes, there are still troubling tics (50+ yd field goals, 4 minute offense with 8 minutes left), but by and large he is quite good enough. He might be perfect with a young roster, though Capers and a higher level of assistant certainly helped there as well. As Bretsky pointed out, he really seemed to shine at the toughest moment of the season, when everyone was ready to bury them, he told anyone listening that he still believed them capable of getting it done.

In a way Waldo and that guy who does Packers Update were right. Think about yourself trying to fill a job position (DC) and losing 2 (or 4) of your top candidates. And the guy you eventually hire might still win a post-season award for coordinating a defense. I think McCarthy's first three years were largely spent making his bones in the league and once that was done, he began to attract positive attention from his peers.

Thompson's roster didn't hurt either. But both of them in their first gig probably scared off some people.

[RashanGary]

We did luck into Capers I think. I wanted Greg Williams too, but I think we have the best DC in the league. I'm a Packer fan so of course I'm biased on that.