Best O-Lineman in League

[Smidgeon]

Josh Sitton will be announced as the best Offensive Lineman in the NFL...unless they pull a Polamalu.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/115155719.html

[Guiness]

:worship::wow::worship:

Further down in the article, it talks about KO returns, Shields and Lee. I'd like to see Lee back there.

[Tony Oday]

:worship::wow::worship:

Further down in the article, it talks about KO returns, Shields and Lee. I'd like to see Lee back there.


OH HELL NO...I just want to get to the 20 and no fumbles....thats it.

[bobblehead]

Look, another playmaker/elite player emerges AFTER a team makes the superbowl...last year we had no playmakers.

[mraynrand]

This is an award from the NFL alumni association. I won't get excited until I hear from FedEx

[Patler]

This is an award from the NFL alumni association. I won't get excited until I hear from FedEx

Of all the award sets that are given, this one is one of the lower profile ones, but may have more credibility than a lot of the others. The NFL alumni vote by position, former linemen vote for the lineman award, former QBs for the QB award, etc. At least these guys have an idea what is expected of a player at a particular position, because they vote only for the position they played.

[sheepshead]

fire TT now

[Joe]

fire TT now

Why do you do this? No need for this.

Thompson is a great GM, but his focus on the OL hasn't been an A+, has it?

[Lurker64]

Why do you do this? No need for this.

Thompson is a great GM, but his focus on the OL hasn't been an A+, has it?

Psst. I think it's a joke. "Fire TT Now" is obviously a nonsensical response to 4th round pick being voted as the best OL in the league by his peers in his third year as a player.

[DannoMac21]

Why do you do this? No need for this.

Thompson is a great GM, but his focus on the OL hasn't been an A+, has it?

Whoa...sarcasm switch flipped off today?

[Fritz]

The picture at the top of that article, where Sitton's looking at something on Kuhn's phone, and they're both laughing...ya think they got ahold of Brent's pics to Jenn?

[VermontPackFan]

Look, another playmaker/elite player emerges AFTER a team makes the superbowl...last year we had no playmakers.

I was thinking the same thing, amazing how that works isnt it?

[HarveyWallbangers]

The picture at the top of that article, where Sitton's looking at something on Kuhn's phone, and they're both laughing...ya think they got ahold of Brent's pics to Jenn?

:)

[sheepshead]

Why do you do this? No need for this.

Thompson is a great GM, but his focus on the OL hasn't been an A+, has it?

Joe, your uber sensitivity has kicked in again. And yes, he drafts linemen in every draft, I think he is supremely focused on the OL. I have read TT bashing for years. On all boards. I havent agreed with most of it. Ted Thompsons ultimate responsibility is personnel. If one of his guys gets some league wide recognition, TT should get some credit. That was my way of pointing out some of the absurdity that has filled this and other boards about TTs decisions.

[get louder at lambeau]

Joe, your uber sensitivity has kicked in again. And yes, he drafts linemen in every draft, I think he is supremely focused on the OL. I have read TT bashing for years. On all boards. I havent agreed with most of it. Ted Thompsons ultimate responsibility is personnel. If one of his guys gets some league wide recognition, TT should get some credit. That was my way of pointing out some of the absurdity that has filled this and other boards about TTs decisions.

Seems pretty fair to me. The "Fire TT" crowd has focused on the OL as a reason he sucks, because that's what they see as Thompson's weakest point personnel-wise. Now one of his OL guys just won an award as "NFL Offensive Lineman Of The Year".

"Fire TT" = "Yet another part of the tenacious anti-Ted Thompson group's theory has been debunked."

Since when is it bad for a Packer fan to defend the Packers' GM on a Packer forum?

[Packgator]

Now one of his OL guys just won an award as "NFL Offensive Lineman Of The Year".

"Fire TT" = "Yet another part of the tenacious anti-Ted Thompson group's theory has been debunked."

That should just about do it....shouldn't it? Everything should be pretty much "debunked" now.

[denverYooper]

That should just about do it....shouldn't it? Everything should be pretty much "debunked" now.

They need a Kick Returner.

[get louder at lambeau]

They need a Kick Returner.

"With the 32nd pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Green Bay Packers select..."

[RashanGary]

Look, another playmaker/elite player emerges AFTER a team makes the superbowl...last year we had no playmakers.

The playmaker theory isn't built around perception, bobblehead. It's built around reality.

[bobblehead]

The playmaker theory isn't built around perception, bobblehead. It's built around reality.

I beg to differ, its built completly around perception.

Desmond Howard was a playmaker until he left the superior blocking of the packers special teams.
Larry Brown was a playmaker until he stopped recieving the superior pass rush of the Cowboys.
Playmakers are predominatly drafted in the top 10 picks in the draft except James Harrison, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Josh Sitton, Michael Turner, and I could go on all night.
Al Harris can never be a playmaker no matter how many WR's he shuts down because he is too slow.
Urhlacher is a playmaker except when you compare his stats to any of 20 other LB's in the NFL.
Cameron Wake is just another guy except when you compare his production to Clay Mathews.
The packers had something like 3 probowlers and one all pro last season, but with the same starters we suddenly have many playmakers and elite players.
And finally my favorite stat of all....Mason Crosby and Tim Masthey suddenly are "reds".

This theory has more holes in it than the wedge of cheese that packer fans will be donning at the game sunday.

[Lurker64]

And finally my favorite stat of all....Mason Crosby and Tim Masthey suddenly are "reds".

They're communists? That's it, we need a new kicker this offseason!

[RashanGary]

The perception of the players doesn't win games. It's the reality of how they play.

[RashanGary]

James Jones is a guy I think is a playmaker (red) but the stats don't show it and people here think he's a chump. Tramon Williams, I always thought was a playmaker, but around here half of the poeople said he was a decent nickleback.

Perception is not always reality. I'm sure there are guys I think are playmakers that are products of their environment too.

My perception, your perception, those aren't realities per se, but the reality is great players win games. Nuff said.

[Joemailman]

They need a Kick Returner.


"With the 32nd pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, the Green Bay Packers select..."

Torrey Smith WR Maryland

Overview
A record-breaking receiver and kick returner for a university famous for producing athletic phenoms, Smith will enter the NFL as one of the more intriguing big-play specialists of the 2011 draft.

After redshirting in 2007, Smith immediately proved his versatility, averaging 141.2 all-purpose yards over the final five games of the 2008 season and breaking the ACC single-season kickoff return record with 1,089 yards. Smith was even better a year later as his 2,192 all-purpose yards set a Maryland single-season record and rank second in ACC history.

Smith's ability as a returner was unquestioned, but until the 2010 season he hadn't been able to consistently transfer his talents to wide receiver. Smith nearly matched his previous career totals (85 catches for 1,160 yards and seven touchdowns) during a breakout junior campaign in which he was essentially a one-man receiving outlet for the Terps. Smith's 67 receptions were 31 more than the next Maryland receiver (Adrian Cannon).

His 1,055 receiving yards were more than three times that of Cannon's 324. Smith's 12 receiving touchdowns broke the single-season school record. In only three seasons, Smith broke the Terrapins' career all-purpose yardage record (5,183).

For as dominant as his statistics are, Smith remains a work in progress. Nearly a third of his production in 2010 came in one game - the regular-season finale against North Carolina State - in which he caught 14 passes for 224 yards and four touchdowns. As such, he may struggle if asked to take over immediately as an NFL team's primary receiver. Allowed to develop as a No. 2 target, however, his big-play ability as a receiver and returner could ultimately pay off in greater production than some of the higher touted receivers of the 2011 draft.

Analysis
Release: Good burst off the snap to eat up the cushion. Possesses very good straight-line speed, making it risky for defenders to attempt press coverage. Quick hands to slap away the initial jam and has the balance, flexibility and strength to absorb a pop, gain freedom quickly and accelerate downfield.

Hands: Reliable pass-catcher, though he needs to be more consistent with catching with his hands. Shows the ability to extend and pluck the ball out of the air. Long arms and good body control to contort in space to make the difficult reception of a poorly thrown ball. Can absorb the big hit and hang on. Good vision and balance to track the ball over his shoulder.

Route running: Remains a work in progress in this area, though he showed significant improvement as a junior. Generally asked to run only vertical, comeback drags across the middle and quick screens in this offense. Has been able to gain separation largely due to his speed, though he shows good footwork and balance to develop in this area.

After the catch: His best attribute due to his agility, straight-line speed and vision. Gliding runner who accelerates quickly and changes directions without sacrificing speed. Can make defenders miss in the open field, but doesn't possess elite lateral agility to juke in tight quarters. Good straight-line speed to separate. A threat to score from any point on the field.

Blocking: Willing to help his teammates downfield, but this is an area that could use some development. Has the agility and competitiveness to mirror, but possesses only average strength and physicality.

Intangibles: An ascending talent who may be only scratching the surface of his potential. His 2,983 yards as a kick returner set the ACC record. Endured a tough childhood in which he was often asked to help his raise his younger brothers and sisters while his single mother worked two jobs. Described by head coach Ralph Friedgen as "God created a perfect person" due to Smith's humility and dedication, as well as his athletic talents. Graduated in December with a degree in criminology and criminal justice - the first male in his family to earn a college diploma. Made the special teams captain by Friedgen.

[Guiness]

fire TT now

^^^^^^^^^^^

made me laugh

smart ass rat indeed

[CaptainKickass]

Whoa...sarcasm switch flipped off today?

Hi,
Captain Context here for for the new "Shame-Wow". Did someone say "flipped off"?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bKzxHRgRbOo/S3s4PLU-TTI/AAAAAAAACv0/5KFiT0VE1cs/s400/flip_off_baby.jpg


The picture at the top of that article, where Sitton's looking at something on Kuhn's phone, and they're both laughing...ya think they got ahold of Brent's pics to Jenn?

Like this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2801919863_58604f90d8.jpg


They're communists? That's it, we need a new kicker this offseason!

http://theredphoenix.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/behind_communism.jpg


James Jones is a guy I think is a playmaker (red) but the stats don't show it and people here think he's a chump. Tramon Williams, I always thought was a playmaker, but around here half of the poeople said he was a decent nickleback.

Perception is not always reality. I'm sure there are guys I think are playmakers that are products of their environment too.

My perception, your perception, he's a pepper she's a pepper...


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1218/930205429_8d751b8f2f.jpg

[bobblehead]

The perception of the players doesn't win games. It's the reality of how they play.

and amazingly when we replaced Jarret Bush with Sam Shields the PERCEPTION of the other players on our defense changed. Guys that were not considered "playmakers" last year became playmakers when we shored up the weaknesses.

[RashanGary]

I'd argue, bobblehead, that Shields is a big of a playmaker himself and he put Woodson in a spot where he's absolutely special which might be the most important part of that equation.

With Woodson taking away what teams like to do best and tramon playing great football and Sheilds also playing great ball, yeah, that makes other people better. Then we have one of the rangyest safties in the league with Collins keeping the deep end safe. Clay and Raji make them better too.

I'm not as far off of what you're saying. It's kind of a whole picture, but the great players make everyone better. I'll start using the Blue's, Red's thing. Reds help, no doubt. Duds hurt, no doubt but Blues change the whole game. Without Clay our defense was pedestrian. He really makes that much of a difference. I'd say Raji and Woodson in his current position make that kind of difference too. Take Wood out and we're predictable. Take Raji out and QB's have somewhere to escape to. Take Clay out and QB's have more time. . . . . It's the whole picture, but there are a couple players who stir the drink. Take those three out and it means way more than the 15 we lost combined.

If you put Woodson, Matthews and Raji on the Panthers maybe they don't come together the way this team did. Maybe they don't get the players playing in unison the way Capers and MM did. Maybe the talent isn't complete enough to win a SB. But. . . We're a freaking hell of a lot worse and they're a hell of a lot better. Talent matters and elite talent changes wins, losses and championships more than any other single piece can.

Peppers and Urlacher made a big difference for the Bears this year. I'd argue just those two players were the biggest difference between last years cruddy team and this years elite team. Just two players. Playmakers! And because they're so reliant on those two players I'd argue they're future isn't nearly as bright. Because we have so many young playmakers and potential playmakers, I'd argue our future is brighter. It's not everything but it's so important it can be used to tell a lot of things.

[bobblehead]

I'd argue, bobblehead, that Shields is a big of a playmaker himself and he put Woodson in a spot where he's absolutely special which might be the most important part of that equation.

With Woodson taking away what teams like to do best and tramon playing great football and Sheilds also playing great ball, yeah, that makes other people better. Then we have one of the rangyest safties in the league with Collins keeping the deep end safe. Clay and Raji make them better too.

I'm not as far off of what you're saying. It's kind of a whole picture, but the great players make everyone better. I'll start using the Blue's, Red's thing. Reds help, no doubt. Duds hurt, no doubt but Blues change the whole game. Without Clay our defense was pedestrian. He really makes that much of a difference. I'd say Raji and Woodson in his current position make that kind of difference too. Take Wood out and we're predictable. Take Raji out and QB's have somewhere to escape to. Take Clay out and QB's have more time. . . . . It's the whole picture, but there are a couple players who stir the drink. Take those three out and it means way more than the 15 we lost combined.

If you put Woodson, Matthews and Raji on the Panthers maybe they don't come together the way this team did. Maybe they don't get the players playing in unison the way Capers and MM did. Maybe the talent isn't complete enough to win a SB. But. . . We're a freaking hell of a lot worse and they're a hell of a lot better. Talent matters and elite talent changes wins, losses and championships more than any other single piece can.

Peppers and Urlacher made a big difference for the Bears this year. I'd argue just those two players were the biggest difference between last years cruddy team and this years elite team. Just two players. Playmakers! And because they're so reliant on those two players I'd argue they're future isn't nearly as bright. Because we have so many young playmakers and potential playmakers, I'd argue our future is brighter. It's not everything but it's so important it can be used to tell a lot of things.

But wait, Cliff Christl used to tell me that there were probably only 10 "playmakers" in the entire league, now we got 9 of them? Sam shields suddenly qualifies....its starting to sound suspiciously like a playmakers is being redefined as a "good football player". then I concede the argument, if you have good football players you will win games. Really good (great?) football players make your team even better. Gee, what a novel blockbuster theory. I'm not mocking you here (other than for buying into journalistic BS), I'm mocking those that have such a rubbery flexible "theory".

[bobblehead]

Again, you argue that taking our 3 best players out makes us worse...I concur. We were not "pedestrian" without clay. We were worse than we were with him, and you are talking about the position with the least depth. And you are not even mentioning Clifton...take him out and we are much worse on offense. Is cliffy a league wide "playmaker"?

[mraynrand]

If you take a good player away and replace him with shit, your team will suffer. That doesn't make the good player a great player or a game changer - it just makes him an important player in a sport that values team play very highly.

There are great playmakers in the NFL, who take good or average teams and make them great. And there aren't that many of them. But most cannot be successful without decent players around them. Woodson at Oakland before being traded to GB, Steve Young in Tampa, James Lofton with 'noodle arm' Jim Zorn at QB, etc. etc.

It wold be interesting to see what Pittsburgh would look like with Zombo in place of Harrison or Curtis Painter running the Colts - or Matt Flynn with an entire season as GB QB. My prediction wold be that you get a version of the 2008 Patriots - competitive, but missing that edge. Yes, it's possible to neutralize one great player, especially if he has garbage around him, and it's possible to look pretty decent if you lose that difference maker, so long as you have a solid team around. That's because it's a real team game. But much more often than not, you're not going to get far in the Playoffs without one or two of those great difference makers on your team.