Super Bowl win opens flood gates....

[LEWCWA]

I guess winning the Super Bowl has opened the floor for anyone and everyone to take pot shots at Favre. It really does amaze me that we as fans have so little class. Brett showed alot of himself (no pun intended) the last few years as being pretty self absorbed, but if that suprises you, you are pretty naive (spelling). I would suggest that most if not all professional athletes are self centered jerks. They have been tutored and coached on saying the right things in front of people, but to get to the big time they are almost all wired to do whats good for them.

Make no mistake, Aaron Rodgers is as cocky and self centered as the rest. I would suggest being very careful about crowning this guy, like most did with Favre. When you put people up on that pedastal the only place they really have to go is down. At some point they will be knocked off, and we will all be wondering how we didn't see it coming.

I really don't understand, why anti Favre folks can't just move on. It is like a disease. You just can't help yourselves from the I told ya so. Then the Brett jock lickers can't let shit go when he was doing well. Why can't we just appreciate the fact that Brett came along at a great time and helped lead this team out of the dark, and like so many others couldn't figure out how to end it with class, and at the same time count our lucky stars that we have been blessed with what looks like another franchise caliber QB. We are lucky to have both players. When it is all said and done the GB Packers may well have 3 of the greatest QB's to ever play the game. What Rodgers does, doesn't diminish what Favre did, it only adds to the Packer history. Brett is one of the greatest Packers ever and will be immortalized in Lambeau and that is a great thing. Hopefully Aaron will put his name up their as well, if he already hasn't.

I for one will not bash Brett to prop up Aaron and I will not bash Aaron to prop up Brett. They are both great players and I feel lucky to have had them both to watch. I can be a fan of both, can you?

[Patler]

If this is in reference to comments (including mine) in the thread "Packers fans will forgive Favre, but when will Rodgers?" I think you criticism is misplaced. No one went out of their way to criticize Favre, just offered their commentary on a published article. Isn't that what we do here a lot of the time?

You say you will not bash Rodgers to prop up Favre, but yet you state, "Make no mistake, Aaron Rodgers is as cocky and self centered as the rest. I would suggest being very careful about crowning this guy, like most did with Favre." Do you really know Rodgers well enough to state that as fact? Isn't that bashing Rodgers to prop up Favre?

What you apparently want is no mention of Favre at all, but that isn't likely to happen for a long time, especially since the national media won't leave it alone.

[Zool]

Nope

[Freak Out]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Hardtack_Umbrella_nuke.jpg

[Fritz]

Actually, I was thinking just the opposite - that the Super Bowl win has finally quieted all the Favre talk. Sure there's been a thread about whether Rodgers is the most complete Packer QB ever, but have you also noticed that the Favre thread - all zillion pages of it - has finally dropped out of site?

[red]

FAIL

[ThunderDan]

Actually, I was thinking just the opposite - that the Super Bowl win has finally quieted all the Favre talk. Sure there's been a thread about whether Rodgers is the most complete Packer QB ever, but have you also noticed that the Favre thread - all zillion pages of it - has finally dropped out of site?

Someone should really bump that thread.

[Tarlam!]

This is one of the lesser good thread ideas I've seen on here for a long, long time. Your post would have fit nicely into the Patler thread on this.

If it hasn't dawned on you yet, LEWCA, that fans are split and always will be, then I think you'll never get it.

BTW, had Favre retired with grace and taken the public relations gig offered, he'd now be receiving a second ring. How ironic.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rodgers is good.

[channtheman]

Someone should really bump that thread.

I couldn't find it just yesterday.

[Cleft Crusty]

Bart Starr used to treat me poorly in post-game interviews. Three heart attacks and two bowel resections later, I've moved on. Life is too short to get hung up on grudges and hurt feelings. Except for Al Davis. Then it's OK.

[channtheman]

I couldn't find it just yesterday.

Actually I just found it. Guess I was blind yesterday.

[Patler]

Actually, I was thinking just the opposite - that the Super Bowl win has finally quieted all the Favre talk. Sure there's been a thread about whether Rodgers is the most complete Packer QB ever, but have you also noticed that the Favre thread - all zillion pages of it - has finally dropped out of site?

I sure hope no one took THAT thread as a Favre bashing thread. It was trying to draw some historical perspective around the developing career of Aaron Rodgers. It was a Rodgers thread, certainly not a Favre thread anymore than it was a Starr thread or a Dickey thread.

Anyone (and I don't mean to imply you Fritz) who is upset over that type of thread has not let Favre go. If we can't have a Rodgers thread because of the inevitable mention of Favre that will occur, we are in big trouble.

[denverYooper]

http://forums.precentral.net/avatars/octoberorange.gif?type=sigpic&dateline=1278073943

[RashanGary]

For how many years did people who questioned Favre's play get ganged up on for their idiocy. Favre brought this team back to relevance. Without him, we are right back to the 70's and 80's. Well, it all shows now as utter BS. A great GM will build a winner regardless of who teh QB is when he steps through the front door. He'll draft one, trade for one and build an all around winner around whoever teh QB is. Bill Polian took the Bills to 4 SBs, then went to Indy and took a perennial loser and made them a perennial winner. Scott Pioli went from NE where he had a perennial winner to teh Chiefs and now transformed them from garbage to excellent.

Bob Harlan changed the way football operated in Green Bay. He found Ron Wolf and gave him complete control. Wolf built winners. With our without Favre, we had winners in Green Bay. Then he made a mistake with Sherman, but Sherman rode out Wolf's roster, depleted it and was fired. Harlan's last brilliant move was hiring TT. With or without Favre he was going to build a winner. With our without Rodgers he'll have a winner. Give a great personnel guy complete control and he will build a winner. That is Harlan's legacy.

All of the adoration and credit the Favre fans give to Favre for bringing this organization back to relevance, that belongs with Bob Harlan.


And when he left he made sure to pass down to a successor who believes in the same vision. As long as teh Packers find the best football guy to build the football team, they will be winners. Because we don't have an owner, that is very likely to be the case.


Bottom line, we were told how much we were going to miss taht guy for 10 years so now that he's gone, like many of us expected, we could care less taht he's gone. . . . Yeah, it feels good. And then there's teh matter of having a QB who's playing better. Yeah, we had one guy were were supposed to believe was god in a Packer uniform for 16 years. To have a guy outplaying him is news. The legit part of Favre's legacy is his durablity and hwo long he played. How great he was, he might be the most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

The Giants, Falcons and Steelers games were the three best Packer performances by a QB in huge games I've ever seen. I watched Favre for 16 years. He wasn't that good. Fact. He has stats and played for a long time. That's it.

[LEWCWA]

If this is in reference to comments (including mine) in the thread "Packers fans will forgive Favre, but when will Rodgers?" I think you criticism is misplaced. No one went out of their way to criticize Favre, just offered their commentary on a published article. Isn't that what we do here a lot of the time?

You say you will not bash Rodgers to prop up Favre, but yet you state, "Make no mistake, Aaron Rodgers is as cocky and self centered as the rest. I would suggest being very careful about crowning this guy, like most did with Favre." Do you really know Rodgers well enough to state that as fact? Isn't that bashing Rodgers to prop up Favre?

What you apparently want is no mention of Favre at all, but that isn't likely to happen for a long time, especially since the national media won't leave it alone.

I don't look at that cockiness as a bad thing. I think it is part of being exceptionally successful. As far as other things mentioned like the Favre thread disappearing, it has because he is being discussed in plenty other threads on the first page, seemingly without impunity we had before. Also, I don't care if the whole front page is about Favre. If thats what people want to discuss so be it. I just don't understand why you have to hate one to be a fan of the other. Not directed at you Patler. My feelings about players end on the field these days, if I judged athletes in any other way I probably wouldn't be a fan of any sports. Athletes are greedy self-centered pricks, managed by professionals to come off as loveable! Just my opinion

[RashanGary]

When Rodgers left Butte, he had a humble, loveable attitude. I don't think anyone coached him up on that.

[LEWCWA]

For how many years did people who questioned Favre's play get ganged up on for their idiocy. Favre brought this team back to relevance. Without him, we are right back to the 70's and 80's. Well, it all shows now as utter BS. A great GM will build a winner regardless of who teh QB is when he steps through the front door. He'll draft one, trade for one and build an all around winner around whoever teh QB is. Bill Polian took the Bills to 4 SBs, then went to Indy and took a perennial loser and made them a perennial winner. Scott Pioli went from NE where he had a perennial winner to teh Chiefs and now transformed them from garbage to excellent.

Bob Harlan changed the way football operated in Green Bay. He found Ron Wolf and gave him complete control. Wolf built winners. With our without Favre, we had winners in Green Bay. Then he made a mistake with Sherman, but Sherman rode out Wolf's roster, depleted it and was fired. Harlan's last brilliant move was hiring TT. With or without Favre he was going to build a winner. With our without Rodgers he'll have a winner. Give a great personnel guy complete control and he will build a winner. That is Harlan's legacy.

All of the adoration and credit the Favre fans give to Favre for bringing this organization back to relevance, that belongs with Bob Harlan.


And when he left he made sure to pass down to a successor who believes in the same vision. As long as teh Packers find the best football guy to build the football team, they will be winners. Because we don't have an owner, that is very likely to be the case.


Bottom line, we were told how much we were going to miss taht guy for 10 years so now that he's gone, like many of us expected, we could care less taht he's gone. . . . Yeah, it feels good. And then there's teh matter of having a QB who's playing better. Yeah, we had one guy were were supposed to believe was god in a Packer uniform for 16 years. To have a guy outplaying him is news. The legit part of Favre's legacy is his durablity and hwo long he played. How great he was, he might be the most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

That is a strong opinion, but flawed in my opinion. A great QB goes a long way to building a championship type team. You speak as if great QB's just fall off trees. I don't think that is the case! Hell the Bears have been looking for one forever! I will agree that Harlen, Wolf, Holmgren, etc... deserve much credit for what happened in GB, but make no mistake BF was a huge part of it as well. Just like Rodgers is a huge part of why this team won the Super Bowl.

[LEWCWA]

When Rodgers left Butte, he had a humble, loveable attitude. I don't think anyone coached him up on that.

bullshit, part of the reason Rodgers fell in the draft was NFL people thought he was too arrogant for his own good!

[RashanGary]

Offense 40%
Defense 40%
ST's - 20%


Breaking the offense down further

WR's/TE's - 25%
RB's/FB's - 25%
OL - 25%
QB - 25%

So the QB is a big part of the offense, 25% of 40% or 10% total.

Brett Favre had a 10% impact on that 96 team. The other 90% was already great. Anyone who suited up would have won a lot of games. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or Jay Cutler could have won with that team. He was not a hero, LEWCWA, he was a physically gifted player with a mentally stunted game that you related to in some way, but he was not as big of a part as you think.

We'll win without Brett. We're better without him. That's a fact. Deal with it.

[LEWCWA]

I hope GB wins 4 or 5 super bowls under Rodgers, but if they do that doesn't undermine the things Favre did, in my opinion. It only adds to GB Packer history, and props Arod up as one of the best ever. On the other side of it, if this is Arod's only super bowl win he will still go down as a great Packer QB.

[billy_oliver880]

bullshit, part of the reason Rodgers fell in the draft was NFL people thought he was too arrogant for his own good!

????????????

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110202/PKR01/110202186/How-Rodgers-fell-to-the-Packers-in-2005

[LEWCWA]

Offense 40%
Defense 40%
ST's - 20%


Breaking the offense down further

WR's/TE's - 25%
RB's/FB's - 25%
OL - 25%
QB - 25%

So the QB is a big part of the offense, 25% of 40% or 10% total.

Brett Favre had a 10% impact on that 96 team. The other 90% was already great. Anyone who suited up would have won a lot of games. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or Jay Cutler could have won with that team. He was not a hero, LEWCWA, he was a physically gifted player with a mentally stunted game that you related to in some way, but he was not as big of a part as you think.

We'll win without Brett. We're better without him. That's a fact. Deal with it.

GB has already won without Brett, so what, that doesn't mean he was some hack....if you are right why not trade Rodgers right now for a couple 1st round picks and win with Flynn, since the QB has little bearing on the success of the team.

[red]

its an interesting question as to weather favre brought us out of the stone age

packers drafted mark brunell in 1993, he or don majikowski probably still would have been the qb when the packers went to the super bowl in 96 and 97. now for those 2 super bowls we had either the top defense or the second best defense in the nfl and were just downright dominate.

now brunell was never favre, but its an interesting question to ask if a mark brunell led packers still could have made those super bowls with that killer D and awesome special teams.

we may not have gotten to the super bowls or won them, but i don't think we would have been a complete joke either. we would have at least been a solid playoff team without favre

[RashanGary]

I hope GB wins 4 or 5 super bowls under Rodgers, but if they do that doesn't undermine the things Favre did, in my opinion. It only adds to GB Packer history, and props Arod up as one of the best ever. On the other side of it, if this is Arod's only super bowl win he will still go down as a great Packer QB.

It definitely undermines the suggestion that Favre was the reason we won. He's gone, we don't even miss him. We have a shitty OL, no RB and no receiver who's a star. Jennings made his first probowl, that's teh only guy we have out there and BF had Sharpe, Freeman, Driver. . . He always had a probowler. AR ripped it up like Brett could never do. Oh yeah it deminishes Favre. We always said the players sucked around him. Now maybe it really was him sucking ass all those playoff games. Funny how AR's receivers rarely run the wrong route. So yeah, this proves we didn't and don't need him. Already replaced him.

[LEWCWA]

????????????

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110202/PKR01/110202186/How-Rodgers-fell-to-the-Packers-in-2005

Fluff piece, big damn deal. I remember reading plenty of articles about how cocky and arrogant Rodgers was.

[Lurker64]

Fluff piece, big damn deal. I remember reading plenty of articles about how cocky and arrogant Rodgers was.

Could you be so kind as to produce one? The internet has a long memory, and if "plenty" of such articles exist (and I somehow missed them), you really shouldn't have trouble producing a handful.

[LEWCWA]

It definitely undermines the suggestion that Favre was the reason we won. He's gone, we don't even miss him. We have a shitty OL, no RB and no receiver who's a star. Jennings made his first probowl, that's teh only guy we have out there and BF had Sharpe, Freeman, Driver. . . He always had a probowler. AR ripped it up like Brett could never do. Oh yeah it deminishes Favre. We always said the players sucked around him. Now maybe it really was him sucking ass all those playoff games. Funny how AR's receivers rarely run the wrong route. So yeah, this proves we didn't and don't need him. Already replaced him.

This doesn't even make sense, it has been mentioned by people in the know that GB has probably the best wr corps in the league, plus i've heard plenty of kudos going out to GB's OL. Personally, I have never thought Favre played with a lack of talent! Hell I was such a homer I thought Billy the kid was OK! Plus I saw plenty of plays this year, where either the wr ran the wrong route or Rodgers was wrong, but that happens in the NFL all the time. rec. and QB have to read the same thing, because the read determines the route.

[LEWCWA]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/11/20/the-49ers-fateful-choice-my-aaron-rodgers-or-alex-smith-column-from-april-2005/

[sharpe1027]

I for one will not bash Brett to prop up Aaron and I will not bash Aaron to prop up Brett.

I agree, Aaron needs no propping up given he just got MVP of the superbowl. We can bash Brett without any motive other than our dislike for a player that has made it abundantly clear that he wanted the Packers to lose.

[RashanGary]

If Favre was special and carried this team, it would have dropped when he left. The Packers won a SB 3 years later and playoffs 2 out of three. The Jets made the playoffs both years after he left and not teh year he was there. The Vikings will probably be better next year than they were this year.


He's not a difference maker. Rodgers is. He played for a long time, has some numbers, but always screwed it up. Any team is better off without him as long as they don't have NFLE scrubs behind him.

This definitely diminishes how we think of Favre. Now he was the screw up, not everyone else.

And him as a person, we don't even have to open that can of worms.

[LEWCWA]

It did drop from NFC championship game to 6-10. Your words not mine!

[bobblehead]

bullshit, part of the reason Rodgers fell in the draft was NFL people thought he was too arrogant for his own good!

Never heard this anywhere....ever. Honestly, I love AR cuz he is confident yet humble. I never liked BF because he is an ass and I saw it in person as well as otherwise. I cheered for BF cuz he was our QB and we made it back to the SB in large part due to his talent. I likely would never cheer for him again and I don't ever want to see him be part of this organization again. Just my two cents, you are entitled to yours.

PS...I never like Andre Rison either, but I cheered like hell when he caught the pass in the superbowl....never want to see him be part of the Packers again either.

[LEWCWA]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/11/20/the-49ers-fateful-choice-my-aaron-rodgers-or-alex-smith-column-from-april-2005/

Christ it is right here in this column, i'm sure you can find plenty more!

[Patler]

That is a strong opinion, but flawed in my opinion. A great QB goes a long way to building a championship type team. You speak as if great QB's just fall off trees. I don't think that is the case! Hell the Bears have been looking for one forever! I will agree that Harlen, Wolf, Holmgren, etc... deserve much credit for what happened in GB, but make no mistake BF was a huge part of it as well. Just like Rodgers is a huge part of why this team won the Super Bowl.

I think with better roster building, the Packers could have been very, very successful with Lynn Dickey or with Don Majkowski if he had stayed healthy. If they had not had Favre, they could have been very, very successful under Wolf with Brunnel or with Hasselbeck. Sherman might have had more success with Hasselbeck than he did with Favre, whom he could not manage.

Competent QBs are out there, you just have to find them. The Packers have had at least 7 that would have been good enough with more complete rosters. Is it better to have a better QB? Sure, but a lot of the bad years for the Packers were because of the roster as a whole and not the QB

[Smidgeon]

bullshit, part of the reason Rodgers fell in the draft was NFL people thought he was too arrogant for his own good!

Confidence can come across as arrogance even if it isn't arrogance.

[RashanGary]

haha, LEWCWA

I'm exaggerating. I think it looks bad on Favre for everyone to be better off without him, but if you don't, that's fine. We're all going to have differing view points.

And I'm not saying he wasn't good, but he was supposed to be the best ever, the guy carrying the team. How do you just replace that in one try (both us and the Jets did it in one try). Seems like either he was overrated or we just hit another one in a million magical player and then the Jets hit another one in a million player too. AR is good, excellent really, but one in a million, I don't know. Sanchez? I'm pretty sure no.

I'm pretty sure Favre isn't as special as we used to believe but apparently you still do.


AR is lucky to be on a great team and maybe many more. Brett was lucky too. The Packers have been run right since Harlan Hired Wolf and got out the way. The only thing we can really judge is what they do. Does AR throw TD's or picks when it counts? Brett's legacy has been iced. WE already know what he did when it mattered most.

[bobblehead]

If Favre was special and carried this team, it would have dropped when he left. The Packers won a SB 3 years later and playoffs 2 out of three. The Jets made the playoffs both years after he left and not teh year he was there. The Vikings will probably be better next year than they were this year.


He's not a difference maker. Rodgers is. He played for a long time, has some numbers, but always screwed it up. Any team is better off without him as long as they don't have NFLE scrubs behind him.

This definitely diminishes how we think of Favre. Now he was the screw up, not everyone else.

And him as a person, we don't even have to open that can of worms.

JH, I admire the Favre bashing, but now your just reaching. We are blessed that we followed a very good QB with a great one. Don't cheapen your intellectual argument by saying Favre sucked. He was very good. You need a very good QB to win in the NFL. History has proven him to be an asshat and nothing you say is going to change LEW's mind. For my money (and I'm guessing you agree) I'll take AR anyday over #4. Don't get dragged into this garbage discussion anymore than you already have. Hey, how about them brewers.

[Guiness]

bullshit, part of the reason Rodgers fell in the draft was NFL people thought he was too arrogant for his own good!

Without a doubt the first time I've heard that, and I think I've read quite a lot of stuff about him, and the Packers.

He fell because of the failures of a few QB's ahead of him. The so-called 'Tedford QB's', the failings of Carr and Harrington pushed him down in the draft as much as anything else. The thinking was that he played in a very QB friendly system that made him look better than he was. Rodgers was thought to be unathletic, and a little short (6'2"). Smith is 6'4", Campbell is 6'5". That's one of those measurables people get worked up about.

[mission]

I agree, Aaron needs no propping up given he just got MVP of the superbowl. We can bash Brett without any motive other than our dislike for a player that has made it abundantly clear that he wanted the Packers to lose.

This is really what it's about for me as well as what bobble is sayin'. We're Packer fans, we love the team and like certain players based on what they do on the field and how they're respected off of it. Some players we like more than others because we admire their character and that kind of thing. Once we really got to know Favre - and how he wanted the Packers to lose, he wanted to beat us himself - then he was no longer aligned with the same interests as the Green Bay Packers (and my household).

When you're a Packer, you're a Packer, even if you have to play a couple years at the end of your career for another team. There are ways to handle it as a professional and Brett didn't go about it that way. No one hates Aaron Kampman, right?

Anyway, we just witnessed an amazing postseason w/12 leading us to a World Championship and it's fair for the majority of us to feel a sense of relief that maybe we can go on now, being fans of the Packers and no longer "the team that Brett Favre used to run".

It's just about the Packers for me. :cow:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Offense 40%
Defense 40%
ST's - 20%


Breaking the offense down further

WR's/TE's - 25%
RB's/FB's - 25%
OL - 25%
QB - 25%

So the QB is a big part of the offense, 25% of 40% or 10% total.

Brett Favre had a 10% impact on that 96 team. The other 90% was already great. Anyone who suited up would have won a lot of games. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or Jay Cutler could have won with that team. He was not a hero, LEWCWA, he was a physically gifted player with a mentally stunted game that you related to in some way, but he was not as big of a part as you think.

We'll win without Brett. We're better without him. That's a fact. Deal with it.

I agree with much of what you are trying to get across--although I think the manner in which you are saying it is just to get people riled up. I would disagee with this though. It's a team game, but a QB means way more to a team's success then this. I think the whole playoff run is proof of how much a QB means. Rodgers outplayed the opposing QB in all 6 games and he was the biggest difference in probably 5 of those 6 games.

Favre was a great QB. The best regular season QB in history perhaps. His Packers team had one losing season in 16 seasons. That's with great personnel, average personnel, and below average personnel around him. If he had choked in the playoffs a couple times fewer, he'd rightfully have a spot in the games top 5 QBs. Maybe top 3. He didn't though, and that knocks him out of the top 5 for me. Maybe the top 10 once Brady and Manning retire. Manning's career is kind of following Favre's career.

[mission]

JH, I admire the Favre bashing, but now your just reaching. We are blessed that we followed a very good QB with a great one. Don't cheapen your intellectual argument by saying Favre sucked. He was very good. You need a very good QB to win in the NFL. History has proven him to be an asshat and nothing you say is going to change LEW's mind. For my money (and I'm guessing you agree) I'll take AR anyday over #4. Don't get dragged into this garbage discussion anymore than you already have. Hey, how about them brewers.

Ahhhhhh..... isn't it nice that we can talk like this now? :clap:

[3irty1]

Offense 40%
Defense 40%
ST's - 20%


Breaking the offense down further

WR's/TE's - 25%
RB's/FB's - 25%
OL - 25%
QB - 25%

So the QB is a big part of the offense, 25% of 40% or 10% total.

Brett Favre had a 10% impact on that 96 team. The other 90% was already great. Anyone who suited up would have won a lot of games. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or Jay Cutler could have won with that team. He was not a hero, LEWCWA, he was a physically gifted player with a mentally stunted game that you related to in some way, but he was not as big of a part as you think.

We'll win without Brett. We're better without him. That's a fact. Deal with it.

I love when you assign subjective numerical values to things then use those numbers to make a point.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As far as Aaron being cocky during the time leading up to the 2005 draft, he admits that he was. He has said that he was advised to be that one in the interview process. He said it was bad advice, and he should have remained true to himself.

[Guiness]

its an interesting question as to weather favre brought us out of the stone age

packers drafted mark brunell in 1993, he or don majikowski probably still would have been the qb when the packers went to the super bowl in 96 and 97. now for those 2 super bowls we had either the top defense or the second best defense in the nfl and were just downright dominate.

now brunell was never favre, but its an interesting question to ask if a mark brunell led packers still could have made those super bowls with that killer D and awesome special teams.

we may not have gotten to the super bowls or won them, but i don't think we would have been a complete joke either. we would have at least been a solid playoff team without favre

Too hard to look at that 'what if' scenario.

If BF wasn't here, does Reggie White come? Without Reggie White, our defense doesn't dominate. Keith Jackson probably can't be convinced to come. You can't take one piece of the puzzle out, and expect the rest to remain in place.

[RashanGary]

I agree with much of what you are trying to get across--although I think the manner in which you are saying it is just to get people riled up. I would disagee with this though. It's a team game, but a QB means way more to a team's success then this. I think the whole playoff run is proof of how much a QB means. Rodgers outplayed the opposing QB in all 6 games and he was the biggest difference in probably 5 of those 6 games.

Favre was a great QB. The best regular season QB in history perhaps. His Packers team had one losing season in 16 seasons. That's with great personnel, average personnel, and below average personnel around him. If he had choked in the playoffs a couple times fewer, he'd rightfully have a spot in the games top 5 QBs. Maybe top 3. He didn't though, and that knocks him out of the top 5 for me. Maybe the top 10 once Brady and Manning retire. Manning's career is kind of following Favre's career.

At most though, Harv, a QB can be what? 50% of the offense. That's 25% to OL and 25% to everyone else. I suppose, maybe the reality falls somewhere in that range. So a QB is somewhere between 10%-20% responsible for a team. Maybe 15% is a good number. Either way, it's important, but a solid QB can win the SB when the other 80-90% of the team is excellent. I think solid QB's become great ones in poeples minds when they win SB's on great teams and great ones knocked to solid when they can't win one (Elway before he finally did it). His career easily could have ended with no rings and people call him excellent but not a true great. It's all perception. What's not perception though, is that a QB can only impact the offense and even then, only so much. How exactly you break it down, there is no logical way to put a majority stock in a QB. Maybe more than any other one player, but not majority, not even close. I think 15% would be high, but on a team like this years Packers, it was all on the QB. With a good QB, it wouldn't have to be though.

Bottom line though, the rest of the team is at least 5X more important than the QB. I'll stand by that statement firmly.

[swede]

At most though, Harv, a QB can be what? 50% of the offense. That's 25% to OL and 25% to everyone else. I suppose, maybe the reality falls somewhere in that range. So a QB is somewhere between 10%-20% responsible for a team. Maybe 15% is a good number. Either way, it's important, but a solid QB can win the SB when the other 80-90% of the team is excellent. I think solid QB's become great ones in poeples minds when they win SB's on great teams and great ones knocked to solid when they can't win one (Elway before he finally did it). His career easily could have ended with no rings and people call him excellent but not a true great. It's all perception. What's not perception though, is that a QB can only impact the offense and even then, only so much. How exactly you break it down, there is no logical way to put a majority stock in a QB. Maybe more than any other one player, but not majority, not even close. I think 15% would be high, but on a team like this years Packers, it was all on the QB. With a good QB, it wouldn't have to be though.

Bottom line though, the rest of the team is at least 5X more important than the QB. I'll stand by that statement firmly.

Those are good numbers. I've always liked 15.

[LEWCWA]

I think with better roster building, the Packers could have been very, very successful with Lynn Dickey or with Don Majkowski if he had stayed healthy. If they had not had Favre, they could have been very, very successful under Wolf with Brunnel or with Hasselbeck. Sherman might have had more success with Hasselbeck than he did with Favre, whom he could not manage.

Competent QBs are out there, you just have to find them. The Packers have had at least 7 that would have been good enough with more complete rosters. Is it better to have a better QB? Sure, but a lot of the bad years for the Packers were because of the roster as a whole and not the QB

This is true---I guess maybe the ole standard holds true defense wins championships....GB has won when they had great defenses, maybe QB's are just icing on the cake!

[LEWCWA]

JH, I admire the Favre bashing, but now your just reaching. We are blessed that we followed a very good QB with a great one. Don't cheapen your intellectual argument by saying Favre sucked. He was very good. You need a very good QB to win in the NFL. History has proven him to be an asshat and nothing you say is going to change LEW's mind. For my money (and I'm guessing you agree) I'll take AR anyday over #4. Don't get dragged into this garbage discussion anymore than you already have. Hey, how about them brewers.

Like is said b4, I don't put much stock in the personal stuff. All people are flawed. And I'm not discussing BF over AR, I'm just saying i appreciate both. Thats it really. I have stated in the past GB made the right decision and I stated that during the 6-10 season. I understand BF being bitter, I would be too. Human nature really.

[LEWCWA]

As far as Aaron being cocky during the time leading up to the 2005 draft, he admits that he was. He has said that he was advised to be that one in the interview process. He said it was bad advice, and he should have remained true to himself.

This maybe true. He comes accross as cocky to me today and I have no problem with it. I kind of like it. In all reality, I tell my freshman daughter that she has to have some of that attitude on her softball team. A little cockiness can go a long way!

[channtheman]

Too hard to look at that 'what if' scenario.

If BF wasn't here, does Reggie White come? Without Reggie White, our defense doesn't dominate. Keith Jackson probably can't be convinced to come. You can't take one piece of the puzzle out, and expect the rest to remain in place.

Very good point. In White's book he said Favre was a big reason for why he came to Green Bay. Favre was an amazing competitor, playing through anything because one he wanted to win and two I think he took pride in never missing a start, regardless of what he said about caring about records.

[Patler]

Too hard to look at that 'what if' scenario.

If BF wasn't here, does Reggie White come? Without Reggie White, our defense doesn't dominate. Keith Jackson probably can't be convinced to come. You can't take one piece of the puzzle out, and expect the rest to remain in place.

No, but that's not the point. I think the point really is that the Packers had at least two other QBs during the Favre years in Brunnel and Hasselbeck that might have been "good enough" with a GM that could otherwise assemble pieces around them. Maybe different pieces, but pieces that would fit. Don't forget, if the Packers had not gotten Favre they would have had the first round draft pick that the gave up for him, to use or trade for another piece of the puzzle.

[Patler]

Very good point. In White's book he said Favre was a big reason for why he came to Green Bay.

True, and he also said that God told him to come to Green Bay.
But, as cynics have pointed out in the past, its funny how those two significant factors coincided with the place that offered the most money.

[LEWCWA]

No, but that's not the point. I think the point really is that the Packers had at least two other QBs during the Favre years in Brunnel and Hasselbeck that might have been "good enough" with a GM that could otherwise assemble pieces around them. Maybe different pieces, but pieces that would fit. Don't forget, if the Packers had not gotten Favre they would have had the first round draft pick that the gave up for him, to use or trade for another piece of the puzzle.

This is crap, Hasselbeck lost in his chance at the superbowl and lost plenty to Favre's Packers and Brunell hasn't accomplished shit either. This Packer team wouldn't have won without Rodgers and that team wouldn't have won without Favre. If QB means nothing lets get what we can for Rodgers now, his value will never be higher, were good enough we can win with Flynn or some other guy.

[gbgary]

shots taken at fb after the superbowl are nothing compared to the shots taken before. he's made his bed and now has to lay in it. i think the win pretty much shuts the gates...unless he does something else stupid.

[Guiness]

True, and he also said that God told him to come to Green Bay.
But, as cynics have pointed out in the past, its funny how those two significant factors coincided with the place that offered the most money.

lol - I knew god would eventually get mentioned in reference to him

[Zool]

It's officially the off season.

[channtheman]

True, and he also said that God told him to come to Green Bay.
But, as cynics have pointed out in the past, its funny how those two significant factors coincided with the place that offered the most money.

And he used much of the money he made to help people. Only Reggie knows but I don't think it's fair to imply he was "greedy" if that is what you are implying.

[cheesner]

Favre has earned as much disrespect from former fans as he has disrespected this great franchise.

From going on Greta and bitching, to calling opposing teams to help them beat the Packers, from admitting he wanted to play for the Vikings to stick it to TT (and by extension the Packers), to the years of being a prima donna with his 'I might retire song and dance'. The list goes on, and I am sure every poster here can add a few.

Furthermore, some posters here deserve as many pots shots at them for their years of pot shots at GB management and general character assassination of Ted Thompson.

[Patler]

No, but that's not the point. I think the point really is that the Packers had at least two other QBs during the Favre years in Brunnel and Hasselbeck that might have been "good enough" with a GM that could otherwise assemble pieces around them. Maybe different pieces, but pieces that would fit. Don't forget, if the Packers had not gotten Favre they would have had the first round draft pick that the gave up for him, to use or trade for another piece of the puzzle.


This is crap, Hasselbeck lost in his chance at the superbowl and lost plenty to Favre's Packers and Brunell hasn't accomplished shit either. This Packer team wouldn't have won without Rodgers and that team wouldn't have won without Favre. If QB means nothing lets get what we can for Rodgers now, his value will never be higher, were good enough we can win with Flynn or some other guy.

Did I say QB means nothing? Did anyone?
Didn't Favre also lose a Super Bowl? How is that different from Hasselbecks loss?

You seem to not accept that Favre was part of a TEAM that won a Super Bowl and perhaps some other good QBs might also have won if they were on that team, because the defense and STs were pretty darn good. Didn't the MVP of that game go to a special teamer? Didn't Reggie White set the Super Bowl record for sacks in that game?

Brunell was a pretty good QB there for a while, and with a good team around him was capable of winning.

Hasselbeck proved he was good enough to take a team to the Super Bowl, a team that I don't think was as well balanced as the '96 Packers. I would posit that any QB good enough to get his team to the Super Bowl is good enough to win it. Besides, wasn't it a "trick" play from Pittsburgh in the 4th quarter that clinched it for them against Seattle in the Super Bowl?

I have always believed that the GM is more crucial than any one player, because different combinations of players could win a Super Bowl. I think Wolf could have assembled a roster with Brunell or some other QB of similar talent that would have been capable of winning a Super Bowl.

After all, Favre hasn't won them all, and didn't even win all of the ones he played in, so clearly other QBs are capable of winning Super Bowls, including some who were not as good as Favre. It depends on the rest of the roster.

[ThunderDan]

This is crap, Hasselbeck lost in his chance at the superbowl and lost plenty to Favre's Packers and Brunell hasn't accomplished shit either. This Packer team wouldn't have won without Rodgers and that team wouldn't have won without Favre. If QB means nothing lets get what we can for Rodgers now, his value will never be higher, were good enough we can win with Flynn or some other guy.

Brunell took a 2nd year expansion team to the AFC championship game in 1996. I wouldn't call that nothing. It was Brunell's 2nd full year as a starter.

Brunell's career QB rating 84.0 184TDs-108Int 1.7 TD per Int
Favre's career QB rating 86.0 508TDs-336Int 1.5 TD per Int

If Brunell had as many starts who knows? And a defense like the 96 Packers who knows?

[sharpe1027]

People ripped on him before the Super Bowl. People ripped on him after the Super Bowl. The biggest difference is that many of his supporters have gone silent. He as much as said that he wanted the Packers to lose, and his actions speak volumes. I don't see why I can't bash him the same way I rip on Cutler. He's provided more than enough material for people to use against him. What exactly is the problem here? The guy is a Viking and yet Packer fans can't make fun of him? Whatever.

[Freak Out]

Fuck Favre. When he made it a point to tell Peppers to beat the Packers on camera he reached the summit of mount douche a final time. He can rot on his tractor until he comes begging.

[Patler]

And he used much of the money he made to help people. Only Reggie knows but I don't think it's fair to imply he was "greedy" if that is what you are implying.

I was imply nothing, just reiterating a fact that has been reported many, many times, that Favre, God and money all agreed on the location. But it doesn't really matter what his motives for the money are, does it? In the context of our discussion today, if he wanted the most money possible to give away every penny of it, it still makes money the driving factor, not Brett Favre.

[channtheman]

I was imply nothing, just reiterating a fact that has been reported many, many times, that Favre, God and money all agreed on the location. But it doesn't really matter what his motives for the money are, does it? In the context of our discussion today, if he wanted the most money possible to give away every penny of it, it still makes money the driving factor, not Brett Favre.

That's true. I didn't really articulate my thoughts as well as I wanted to. Money obviously was a deciding factor, but I don't think it was the entire reason. I think money, Favre, and God all had an impact on why Reggie came here. Of course, as I said before, none of us will ever know exactly. I do think Favre played some role in him coming to Green Bay though.

[SkinBasket]

Christ it is right here in this column, i'm sure you can find plenty more!

Actually, it's a blog that offers an unsubstantiated 3rd hand account of how Nolan felt about Rodgers. And no, I haven't been able to find any more. You would think for how widely held you claim this opinion was, I would be able to... but nope.

I think the fact he came from Tedford's system had a lot more to do with falling to 24 than his alleged cockiness.

[pbmax]

A Pro Bowl QB dropped from a possible 1st pick to number 24. That means 23 teams must explain to everyone, including their wives, how they can continue to be employed while being that stupid (from the questioner's perspective). If Rodgers were blonde, that would be blamed. If he was 6' 6" that would be too tall and thin. If he had an arm that looked like Ferrigno's, he would be called muscle bound. And if he spoke with an accent, he would be called too foreign to be understood in the huddle or in a road stadium. And the person who might know best (McCarthy) has a vested interest in keeping both the QB and Nolan on his good side. No one will ever be completely honest until they are all out of football. At which point, concussions will have rendered their memories untrustworthy.

Here Rodgers arm strength was reported as questionable at the time of the 2005 draft: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gNTW37DgULgJ:www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/29431034.html+rodgers+draft+fall+site:jsonline.com&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Here, Rodgers recounts McCarthy thought he was less athletic than Smith and the general fear of another Tedford QB: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jvyx2L3eLDwJ:www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/105612633.html+rodgers+draft+fall+site:jsonline.co m&cd=38&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Cockiness and Salesmanship (not a direct quote-still looking) (also why Favre found Rodgers more useful in his second year): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LYprcI3V8pcJ:www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/32579374.html+rodgers+bad+draft+advice+site:jsonli ne.com&cd=66&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Indirect quote, Rodgers admits to cockiness and salesmanship, but not about draft, he said it was during his first season: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SLVOAuraddkJ:dev.www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/115387274.html+rodgers+draft+cocky+site:jsonline.c om&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

by the way, in the story directly above, Dorsey says he saw Rodgers have the best rookie camp he was ever seen. But when written about in the previous link, it is made to sound like he struggled right out of the gate.

Jaworski says it was the film that did not reveal many pro style throws from Rodgers in Tedford's system: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JMrhF6ixUcQJ:www.jsonline.com/sports/29525724.html+rodgers+2005+draft+fall+-drill+site:jsonline.com&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Well, at least as far as Google Advanced Search and JSOnline are concerned, I can't find the draft interview/cockiness stories. But I definitely recall Rodgers saying he was told to project confidence in those interviews and that a couple of teams were put off. However, given the presence above of a story were he carried that over to the practice field in 2005, I might have conflated the two.

[LEWCWA]

here is another from si that refers to Rodgers attitude

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1111018/index.htm

[Packman_26]

I guess winning the Super Bowl has opened the floor for anyone and everyone to take pot shots at Favre. It really does amaze me that we as fans have so little class. Brett showed alot of himself (no pun intended) the last few years as being pretty self absorbed, but if that suprises you, you are pretty naive (spelling). I would suggest that most if not all professional athletes are self centered jerks. They have been tutored and coached on saying the right things in front of people, but to get to the big time they are almost all wired to do whats good for them.

Make no mistake, Aaron Rodgers is as cocky and self centered as the rest. I would suggest being very careful about crowning this guy, like most did with Favre. When you put people up on that pedastal the only place they really have to go is down. At some point they will be knocked off, and we will all be wondering how we didn't see it coming.

I really don't understand, why anti Favre folks can't just move on. It is like a disease. You just can't help yourselves from the I told ya so. Then the Brett jock lickers can't let shit go when he was doing well. Why can't we just appreciate the fact that Brett came along at a great time and helped lead this team out of the dark, and like so many others couldn't figure out how to end it with class, and at the same time count our lucky stars that we have been blessed with what looks like another franchise caliber QB. We are lucky to have both players. When it is all said and done the GB Packers may well have 3 of the greatest QB's to ever play the game. What Rodgers does, doesn't diminish what Favre did, it only adds to the Packer history. Brett is one of the greatest Packers ever and will be immortalized in Lambeau and that is a great thing. Hopefully Aaron will put his name up their as well, if he already hasn't.

I for one will not bash Brett to prop up Aaron and I will not bash Aaron to prop up Brett. They are both great players and I feel lucky to have had them both to watch. I can be a fan of both, can you?

You're right, Rodgers performance doesn't diminish what Favre did during his time as a Packer, Favre did that all on his own. You're amazed fans have so little class? What about holding a franchise hostage? What about holding a grudge for years in an attempt to get back at the team you made your name with? What about helping a division rival during a season when you have your own team to worry about? How classy is that?

You seem to be trying to make the point that none of that changes what he did on the field, and you're right. But it can change your opinion of someone and it certainly changed mine. I'm not willing to look past all that and I don't think I lack any class if I want to rub his nose in it now. He desperately wanted to do that for years.

But just because Favre is a jerk doesn't mean than everyone else is. It's easy to say that athletes are jerks. Heck, I agree that most might not be great people. But "Make no mistake, Aaron Rodgers is as cocky and self centered as the rest" is irresponsible to say. You are sure he is cocky and self centered? That sounds like bashing to me.

[woodbuck27]

Re: Brett Favre 'the NFL QB's' resume as a player.

"... he might be the most overrated player in the history of the NFL." JH

Ahh !? Hardly. Sometime, go over his records, JH.

You make such sense in alot of your comments and I agree with you on Harlan's legacy and hiring TT and giving the GM the control he has of our team. It does make sense in Green Bay for that aproach.

GO PACKERS!

[Scott Campbell]

You had to know that somebody would be bitter enough about Favre's destroyed legacy to start this thread.

[Iron Mike]

The Vikings will probably be better next year than they were this year.

Then again, there's nowhere else for them to go but up, now, is there?? Heh heh.....

[pbmax]

That SI article by King is interesting. In that article from May 2005, King has Nolan admitting that Rodgers played in a more Pro Style offense (less shotgun) and had the better arm. He credits Smith with higher intelligence (graduated with an economics degree in two years) and an easygoing leadership style, where Rodgers came across as the Big Man on Campus.

Given the proximity to the draft, I find this reporting persuasive. But it contradicts almost every other draft rumor. Proof perhaps, that teams will say anything to avoid looking like they don't know what they are doing.

[LEWCWA]

That SI article by King is interesting. In that article from May 2005, King has Nolan admitting that Rodgers played in a more Pro Style offense (less shotgun) and had the better arm. He credits Smith with higher intelligence (graduated with an economics degree in two years) and an easygoing leadership style, where Rodgers came across as the Big Man on Campus.

Given the proximity to the draft, I find this reporting persuasive. But it contradicts almost every other draft rumor. Proof perhaps, that teams will say anything to avoid looking like they don't know what they are doing.

Obviously, being cocky wasn't the only reason he fell and not the biggest. I was just saying it was out there. Not even a big deal to me. Like I said before, he comes accross as cocky to this day and thats a good thing.

[LEWCWA]

You're right, Rodgers performance doesn't diminish what Favre did during his time as a Packer, Favre did that all on his own. You're amazed fans have so little class? What about holding a franchise hostage? What about holding a grudge for years in an attempt to get back at the team you made your name with? What about helping a division rival during a season when you have your own team to worry about? How classy is that?

You seem to be trying to make the point that none of that changes what he did on the field, and you're right. But it can change your opinion of someone and it certainly changed mine. I'm not willing to look past all that and I don't think I lack any class if I want to rub his nose in it now. He desperately wanted to do that for years.

But just because Favre is a jerk doesn't mean than everyone else is. It's easy to say that athletes are jerks. Heck, I agree that most might not be great people. But "Make no mistake, Aaron Rodgers is as cocky and self centered as the rest" is irresponsible to say. You are sure he is cocky and self centered? That sounds like bashing to me.

You are probably right. AR is the new sheriff in town. I just hope he doesn't rip your hearts out in the end like Favre has. It would be a shame to have almost 3 decades of hall of fame play at the QB position ruined for many fans, because of human flaw.

[SMBASS]

You are probably right. AR is the new sheriff in town. I just hope he doesn't rip your hearts out in the end like Favre has. It would be a shame to have almost 3 decades of hall of fame play at the QB position ruined for many fans, because of human flaw.

This entire thread is nothing but a bunch of trolling bullshit. All you need to do is look at the bolded line above to relaize that this is a statement that comes from a Favre fan....not a fan of the Green Bay Packers. I personally don't give a damn if anyone likes or dislikes Favre since he basically became irrelevant to me once he was no longer a Packer. Thanks for the memories, etc., Bert but you're no longer a member of the TEAM I've supported and been a loyal fan of for over 40 years so I personally don't care what you do or don't do anymore.

The thing that pisses me off is the people who feel the need to come in here after we just won the frickin SUPER BOWL and continue to try to justify their criticism and blatant attacks on T.T., Aaron, etc., over the past few years. Do us all a favor and just STFU, go away, and take your tired, sorry-ass, buzz-kill routine with you.

My team just won the Super Bowl and we are World Champions! Stop trying to piss on my parade and just let me enjoy the journey and the thrill of the victory! I feel the team is in a position to get back here again thanks to the efforts of T.T., and many others, but I sure as heck don't take anything for granted. It takes some luck and alignment of the stars in addition to having a good team to win the Super Bowl and Lord only knows when everything is going to fall into place once again. I'd really like to savor and enjoy this win as much as possible without having to continuously read and hear about all of the extra-curricular crap that played no part in what THIS TEAM accomplished this year!

[Tarlam!]

I don't think we should be telling other members to STFU and go away if they state their opinions about football, just if they get outta line with other posters personally. We have too few contributing members as it is. I agree, this thread was as necessary as trying to organize a fuck in a brothel, but I, for one, value the Favre supporters. I just don't agree with them.

I think LEWCWA makes a shrewd obseravtion in his last post, when he says he hopes 3 decades of Pro Bowl QB play could break our hearts. For many of us hoping to relish the Favre years in hindsight, we feel robbed. That's where my hate for Bert comes from, at least.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Ha ha ha. I can't believe we are still using the "F" word around here. He is nothing more than a used up relic that two slightly homosexual men with their own cable TV show will find while "picking" thru a broken down barn in Southern Mississippi 40 years from now.

In honor of the Superbowl, and the utter lack of Favre that should be going on, I'll change my avatar.

The best thing about Aaron Rodgers is...That I don't have to worry about him finding a way to lose a game.

[LEWCWA]

This entire thread is nothing but a bunch of trolling bullshit. All you need to do is look at the bolded line above to relaize that this is a statement that comes from a Favre fan....not a fan of the Green Bay Packers. I personally don't give a damn if anyone likes or dislikes Favre since he basically became irrelevant to me once he was no longer a Packer. Thanks for the memories, etc., Bert but you're no longer a member of the TEAM I've supported and been a loyal fan of for over 40 years so I personally don't care what you do or don't do anymore.

The thing that pisses me off is the people who feel the need to come in here after we just won the frickin SUPER BOWL and continue to try to justify their criticism and blatant attacks on T.T., Aaron, etc., over the past few years. Do us all a favor and just STFU, go away, and take your tired, sorry-ass, buzz-kill routine with you.

My team just won the Super Bowl and we are World Champions! Stop trying to piss on my parade and just let me enjoy the journey and the thrill of the victory! I feel the team is in a position to get back here again thanks to the efforts of T.T., and many others, but I sure as heck don't take anything for granted. It takes some luck and alignment of the stars in addition to having a good team to win the Super Bowl and Lord only knows when everything is going to fall into place once again. I'd really like to savor and enjoy this win as much as possible without having to continuously read and hear about all of the extra-curricular crap that played no part in what THIS TEAM accomplished this year!

The highlighted part is my whole point. If Arod plays for 10 more years at a high level, but finishes somewhere else in a bad breakup and acts like a clown, it won't rip my heart out. I will appreciate what he brings to the table while with GB and thats it. I don't give a shit what these guys do in there personal life, they can get a hooker everynight for all I care, they can send croc shots to the world. It doesn't matter to me.

and where do you get off saying I attack Rodgers or TT or anybody for that matter. I think the worst thing, I have ever said about Rodgers is that the chances of him replacing a legend and haveing success wasn't very good and that really wasn't a criticism, just what I had seen in the past. He has more than replaced a legend, he has set his career on a legendary path of it own. The guy has been awsome. Hell I don't think you will find any criticism of TT by me either. Hell I still think JH was a good pick. It didn't work out, yet, but at the time looked good to me!

In conclusion, if this enrages you so much you should probably get some help. Heart attacks and strokes are nothing to mess around with!

[LEWCWA]

Ha ha ha. I can't believe we are still using the "F" word around here. He is nothing more than a used up relic that two slightly homosexual men with their own cable TV show will find while "picking" thru a broken down barn in Southern Mississippi 40 years from now.

In honor of the Superbowl, and the utter lack of Favre that should be going on, I'll change my avatar.

The best thing about Aaron Rodgers is...That I don't have to worry about him finding a way to lose a game.


Why wouldn't we talk about Favre. Christ he is going to have a spot in Lambeau some day for all eternity and nobody will ever wear his number again.

[sharpe1027]

I don't give a shit what these guys do in there personal life, they can get a hooker everynight for all I care, they can send croc shots to the world. It doesn't matter to me.


Do you give a shit what these palyers do to the Packers? Favre pissed people off long before the recent off-the-field stuff came out and it had nothing to do with his personal life and everything to do with his clear attempts to get back at the Packers for perceived wrongs. Loved him when he was playing his heart out for the Pack. Can't stand him when he was outright rooting against them. Fair enough?

/thread end

[swede]

Why wouldn't we talk about Favre. Christ he is going to have a spot in Lambeau some day for all eternity and nobody will ever wear his number again.

Let's have a poll. I say his number hangs in limbo. Do not retire it officially until he can go for ten years without embarrassing himself. I don't want that number retired if he goes all OJ meets Mel Gibson and drives his tractor all over Kiln squishing Episcopalians.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/phil_bell_tractor_pull-1.jpg

And at that point we give the number to the camp punters.

[LEWCWA]

Do you give a shit what these palyers do to the Packers? Favre pissed people off long before the recent off-the-field stuff came out and it had nothing to do with his personal life and everything to do with his clear attempts to get back at the Packers for perceived wrongs. Loved him when he was playing his heart out for the Pack. Can't stand him when he was outright rooting against them. Fair enough?

/thread end

That sure is fair enough. Sounds like a healthy opinion.

[Scott Campbell]

Why wouldn't we talk about Favre. Christ he is going to have a spot in Lambeau some day for all eternity and nobody will ever wear his number again.


But his spot might be at the bottom of a urinal.

Favre is a piece of crap. You need to lash out. Again. We get it.


p.s. We told you so.

[mraynrand]

Why wouldn't we talk about Favre. Christ he is going to have a spot in Lambeau some day for all eternity and nobody will ever wear his number again.


I've seen a few people still trotting out their Favre unis. Eternity is a long time.

[Packman_26]

The highlighted part is my whole point. If Arod plays for 10 more years at a high level, but finishes somewhere else in a bad breakup and acts like a clown, it won't rip my heart out. I will appreciate what he brings to the table while with GB and thats it. I don't give a shit what these guys do in there personal life, they can get a hooker everynight for all I care, they can send croc shots to the world. It doesn't matter to me.

and where do you get off saying I attack Rodgers or TT or anybody for that matter. I think the worst thing, I have ever said about Rodgers is that the chances of him replacing a legend and haveing success wasn't very good and that really wasn't a criticism, just what I had seen in the past. He has more than replaced a legend, he has set his career on a legendary path of it own. The guy has been awsome. Hell I don't think you will find any criticism of TT by me either. Hell I still think JH was a good pick. It didn't work out, yet, but at the time looked good to me!

In conclusion, if this enrages you so much you should probably get some help. Heart attacks and strokes are nothing to mess around with!
So you are saying we should all be apathetic, like you? If you choose not to invest yourself like many of us do, that's up to you. The Packers have a close personal relationship with their fans, i'st a large part of their legacy. It's natural for those that had such a close attachment to have strong emotions when a beloved member of the organization does so much to hurt it.

Don't feel bad for us. We're ok. Actually, I feel bad for you. Its that very same attachment that you tell us to avoid that made winning the Super Bowl so special. I know that if I felt that way you did it wouldn't have meant as much.

[Scott Campbell]

Don't let him fool you. He's heavily invested in Favre.

[LEWCWA]

Don't let him fool you. He's heavily invested in Favre.

following is my thoughts, oct of 2008, I was invested in Favre for a long time as a player. Any how through 43 pages of the Favre thread I have 3 posts and this is the first one that shows any opinion! On the other hand I can't count your posts in that thread, so you tell me who is heavily invested in Favre! Just because it is negative doesn't mean your not invested in the man and milking it for all it is worth!!!!

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Wow that is pretty extreme! I would like to clarify that I think Rodgers is developing nicely into his job. He has really shown me something. The guy has really made some big boy throws! Also I love to watch Brett play more than any other player period! Bar none! The guy has been a pleasure.....We can debate whether it was time to go forever, it doesn't really matter, he is gone. I would rather he finished in Green and Gold, but I don't get to make those decisions. The thing that gets me is some around here seem to want to desecrate all he has been to This franchise to validate their opinions...that sucks! You can be of the mind that it was time to go and still be a fan of his. All of you who shit on him at every turn are pretty sad! Now I don't bash TT(think he has done a great job) Don't bash Rodgers(think he has been stellar), but I do bash the few blowhards around here who can't handle being a Favre fan as well as a Packer fan.

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[Bossman641]

You are probably right. AR is the new sheriff in town. I just hope he doesn't rip your hearts out in the end like Favre has. It would be a shame to have almost 3 decades of hall of fame play at the QB position ruined for many fans, because of human flaw.

If. If. If. If. If.

Favre got the benefit of the doubt long before his world came crashing down on him. Until Rodgers does anything at all to show himself Favre-like in behavior he gets the benefit.

You keep trying to project Favre's character traits and flaws onto Rodgers.

[LEWCWA]

If. If. If. If. If.

Favre got the benefit of the doubt long before his world came crashing down on him. Until Rodgers does anything at all to show himself Favre-like in behavior he gets the benefit.

You keep trying to project Favre's character traits and flaws onto Rodgers.


Maybe so.

[LEWCWA]

well said. I think AROD got one of those learning things tonight. This is something you have to learn from and move on. Shit happens and it happened tonight. He had happy feet again though.....

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Above is my next post in BF thread on page 80. and guess what it isn't even about BF, its about Arod, apparently after a poor game.....notice not bashing him at all!

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Again SC has too many to even count!

[Gunakor]

Obviously, being cocky wasn't the only reason he fell and not the biggest. I was just saying it was out there. Not even a big deal to me. Like I said before, he comes accross as cocky to this day and thats a good thing.

He comes across as confident rather than arrogant. To me anyway. Arrogant would have been AR complaining to anyone who would listen about how Matt Ryan was elected to the Pro Bowl over him. Confident is going to Matt Ryan's house and giving him a whooping he'll not soon forget, en route to something bigger than Matt Ryan will likely ever get to enjoy.

[ThunderDan]

SC: I think Brett deserves the vast majority of the blame for what happened.

Merlin: Let me guess, you never changed your mind, not once in your life. Someday I hope the company you work for pressures you into retirement so they can "move on" with a younger, cheaper, and not as good replacement. I hope the CEO of the company leaks lies about you to the press, lies about you to everyone, and lies to your face. I then hope you try to get unemployment and lose the appeal because someone like you is on the panel...

cpk:1994You are deluded. It was FAVRE that leaked lies to the press. It was FAVRE that was lying about everyone. FAVRE even said that he wasn't pressured into retirement. Your blind hatred of TT has really rotted your brain. You are even more of a tool than I first thought.

LEWCWA: You have no real idea what exactly happened. You just think you do. Don't report as fact when you really don't know.

cpk1994: Either does Merlin, yet I don't see you going after him for doing the same thing. Oh thats right, Yuor a Favre lover. Explains everything.



Actually, LEWCWA this is your first post into the BF thread. And what was easily seen was, you were willing to chastise cpk1994 for his position but say nothing to Merlin about his.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Do we really need another Favre thread?

[Joemailman]

Do we really need another Favre thread?

Why? Are you thinking of starting one? :-P

[Scott Campbell]

Do we really need another Favre thread?


Based on the sorry rating of LEWCA's thread, I'd say the members have spoken.

[Guiness]

SC: I think Brett deserves the vast majority of the blame for what happened.

Merlin: Let me guess, you never changed your mind, not once in your life. Someday I hope the company you work for pressures you into retirement so they can "move on" with a younger, cheaper, and not as good replacement. I hope the CEO of the company leaks lies about you to the press, lies about you to everyone, and lies to your face. I then hope you try to get unemployment and lose the appeal because someone like you is on the panel...

cpk:1994You are deluded. It was FAVRE that leaked lies to the press. It was FAVRE that was lying about everyone. FAVRE even said that he wasn't pressured into retirement. Your blind hatred of TT has really rotted your brain. You are even more of a tool than I first thought.

LEWCWA: You have no real idea what exactly happened. You just think you do. Don't report as fact when you really don't know.

cpk1994: Either does Merlin, yet I don't see you going after him for doing the same thing. Oh thats right, Yuor a Favre lover. Explains everything.



Actually, LEWCWA this is your first post into the BF thread. And what was easily seen was, you were willing to chastise cpk1994 for his position but say nothing to Merlin about his.

Do me next! Do me next!

(if you're going to take shots, may as well get them all over at once, eh?)

[ThunderDan]

Do me next! Do me next!

(if you're going to take shots, may as well get them all over at once, eh?)

If someone is going to come in here and pretend that they are something they aren't I am going to point out the contridiction.

Every one gets something wrong. Man up to your posts and say I got it wrong and move on. No need to start another Favre thread to say "hey I was wrong but you guys are wrong to take shots at BF."

There was no reason for this thread to be started in the first place just like a lot of the other "Favre" threads.

[LEWCWA]

SC: I think Brett deserves the vast majority of the blame for what happened.

Merlin: Let me guess, you never changed your mind, not once in your life. Someday I hope the company you work for pressures you into retirement so they can "move on" with a younger, cheaper, and not as good replacement. I hope the CEO of the company leaks lies about you to the press, lies about you to everyone, and lies to your face. I then hope you try to get unemployment and lose the appeal because someone like you is on the panel...

cpk:1994You are deluded. It was FAVRE that leaked lies to the press. It was FAVRE that was lying about everyone. FAVRE even said that he wasn't pressured into retirement. Your blind hatred of TT has really rotted your brain. You are even more of a tool than I first thought.

LEWCWA: You have no real idea what exactly happened. You just think you do. Don't report as fact when you really don't know.

cpk1994: Either does Merlin, yet I don't see you going after him for doing the same thing. Oh thats right, Yuor a Favre lover. Explains everything.



Actually, LEWCWA this is your first post into the BF thread. And what was easily seen was, you were willing to chastise cpk1994 for his position but say nothing to Merlin about his.

Maybe so, but I didn't quote anyone. I would assume this was meant for everyone's benefit! actually I went back and looked and I did quote this whole thing. Both Merlin and cpk, but if it comes accross as only blaming cpk, I apologize as you are correct niether knew the facts really it was all just a blame game.

[LEWCWA]

If someone is going to come in here and pretend that they are something they aren't I am going to point out the contridiction.

Every one gets something wrong. Man up to your posts and say I got it wrong and move on. No need to start another Favre thread to say "hey I was wrong but you guys are wrong to take shots at BF."

There was no reason for this thread to be started in the first place just like a lot of the other "Favre" threads.

You can say what you want about the thread, but It has sparked enough interest to gather steam and has been a civil discusssion for the most part. I would really like to know what I am pretending to be. My opinions are all on the table. I just noticed that after winning the super bowl it seemed to become open season on taking shots at BF in just about any thread, some in here just look for any loose connection in any discussion to bring it up, and not just in the sudo BF thread!

[Pugger]

bullshit, part of the reason Rodgers fell in the draft was NFL people thought he was too arrogant for his own good!

I thought he dropped because other qbs coached by Jeff Tedford didn't have much success in the NFL.

[Pugger]

As far as Aaron being cocky during the time leading up to the 2005 draft, he admits that he was. He has said that he was advised to be that one in the interview process. He said it was bad advice, and he should have remained true to himself.

I for one am glad he got that bad advice or else he wouldn't be a Packer today! :-D