Tender Is the Night: Colledge, Crosby

[Fritz]

So in this CBA-less world, what do these tenders actually mean?

For instance, if nobody signs Colledge, is he back with the Pack for one more year, then? Or might there be some other outcome.

A round-you-were-drafted-in for Colledge. A second rounder. Would anybody bite on that in a normal year?

[gbgary]

So in this CBA-less world, what do these tenders actually mean?

For instance, if nobody signs Colledge, is he back with the Pack for one more year, then? Or might there be some other outcome.

A round-you-were-drafted-in for Colledge. A second rounder. Would anybody bite on that in a normal year?

i think you've got it man. only for rfas.

[Lurker64]

I wonder if we tendered James Jones. I would be surprised if we didn't.

[Fritz]

I don't know if he was in a tender situation. No lube for James Jones.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Guys I wanted to see re-signed going into the off-season was Hawk, Jones, Peprah, Crosby, and Kuhn. I'm fine with losing Jenkins, Colledge, Splitz, Bigby, etc.

Now that Hawk and Peprah are signed, I think Jones is the only question mark left. I have a pretty strong feeling Crosby and Kuhn will be back, but I have no idea what they are planning with Jones.

[rbaloha1]

I wonder if we tendered James Jones. I would be surprised if we didn't.

Too many drops in crucial situations. Remove the drops -- Boldin type player. My guess is no tender. Hopefully Swain is also gone -- the Wes Walker comparison never developed.

[gbgary]

jones wasn't tendered! colledge, cosby, and kuhn were the only ones.

[Patler]

jones wasn't tendered! colledge, cosby, and kuhn were the only ones.

It's probably meaningless anyway. Chances are Jones will be unrestricted under the terms of the new CBA when it is signed, as will Crosby and Colledge. Under the old CBA, in a capped year, a player with 4 or more years of service was unrestricted.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

It's probably meaningless anyway. Chances are Jones will be unrestricted under the terms of the new CBA when it is signed, as will Crosby and Colledge. Under the old CBA, in a capped year, a player with 4 or more years of service was unrestricted.

You are right Palter, but I see gbgary's point. They still didn't tender him, it says something. Why even bother tendering the other three then? I really hope we keep Jones around but the packers don't seem to worried about losing him.

[Patler]

You are right Palter, but I see gbgary's point. They still didn't tender him, it says something. Why even bother tendering the other three then? I really hope we keep Jones around but the packers don't seem to worried about losing him.

Just curious, do we know for certain that the didn't tender Jones? The info on the three seemed to come from their agents. Did the Packers announce anything? There are a bunch of others, too; like Spitz and Hall. I could see them trying to bring both back at vet minimum salaries.

The interesting one was Swain, who I think was an exclusive rights FA. I've seen nothing about a tender to him, either.

[Joemailman]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110303/PKR01/110303101/Green-Bay-Packers-LG-Daryn-Colledge-K-Mason-Crosby-given-2nd-round-tender-offers

Nevertheless, like most or all teams, the Packers followed through and offered kicker Mason Crosby and guard Daryn Colledge second-round tenders, and running back John Kuhn the lowest tender, according to their agents.

Aside from the five players mentioned, the Packers had six other restricted free agents by the 2010 rules: receiver James Jones, running back Brandon Jackson, center Jason Spitz, safety Charlie Peprah, fullback Korey Hall and safety Anthony Smith. It’s unclear which of these players received tenders, though it’s almost a given Jones and Jackson did.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm actually realy surprised they didn't tender Jones. Not even the right of first refusal tender. I can see the other guys not getting tendered because it would have meant a salary higher than the minimum.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/117444818.html


According to an NFL source, the Packers placed second-round tenders on guard Daryn Colledge and kicker Mason Crosby and a right-of-first- refusal tender on running back John Kuhn. None of the other free agents - including wide receiver James Jones, running back Brandon Jackson, guard Jason Spitz, fullback Korey Hall and safety Atari Bigby - received tenders.

[Fritz]

So apparently the team has no tender feelings for James Jones. Or Brandon Jackson.

I've read that the reason the team didn't tender Bigby is that they want to get Skin's hopes up that Bigby's finally, finally gone - and then two weeks into camp when Anthony Levine gets hurt, they're going to sign Bigby. A dagger to the heart of SkinBasket, who will feel plagued by Atari Bigby the way some people are plagued by herpes.

[Packgator]

edit

[Zool]

A dagger to the heart of SkinBasket, who will feel plagued by Atari Bigby the way he is also plagued by herpes.

Fixed

[pbmax]

Why on earth would they not want some measure of compensation for Jones? Or at least drive up the cost for the other team?

There must be missing information.

[pbmax]

Just curious, do we know for certain that the didn't tender Jones? The info on the three seemed to come from their agents. Did the Packers announce anything? There are a bunch of others, too; like Spitz and Hall. I could see them trying to bring both back at vet minimum salaries.

The interesting one was Swain, who I think was an exclusive rights FA. I've seen nothing about a tender to him, either.

But a return of the old system is by no means assured. And if this was the case, why tender anyone? Its almost as if its the cost associated with the tag that they wish to avoid. Jones would have merited one of the top three tenders at least. Could this be a move with an eye towards the eventual return of the cap?

Why on earth would they not want some measure of compensation for Jones? Or at least drive up the cost for the other team?

There must be missing information.

[Fritz]

If you think the tenders are going to be irrelevant, why tender anyone, and if you think there's an outside chance they'll be relevant, why not tender Jones?

Or is he somehow in a different class in terms of years of service?

[Joemailman]

This can only mean one thing. Jones was caught messing around with MM's wife.

[Joemailman]

Why on earth would they not want some measure of compensation for Jones? Or at least drive up the cost for the other team?

There must be missing information.

Here's my thought: They've decided they've had enough of Jones. They feel it's unlikely someone would give up a 2nd round pick for him. Therefore, they would rather let him become a free agent and get signed by someone than sign him to a tender and then have to release him. The reason is that if comp draft picks are part of the next CBA, they could be eligible for a comp pick if someone signs him as a free agent, but would get nothing if they decide to release him.

[pbmax]

Here's my thought: They've decided they've had enough of Jones. They feel it's unlikely someone would give up a 2nd round pick for him. Therefore, they would rather let him become a free agent and get signed by someone than sign him to a tender and then have to release him. The reason is that if comp draft picks are part of the next CBA, they could be eligible for a comp pick if someone signs him as a free agent, but would get nothing if they decide to release him.

Seems unlikely though that someone who would give Jones a contract that would give the Packers pause also would not part with a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Though it would be revealing if they simply had enough of the hands and fumbles. Of course, Nelson has been no better in that dept. Though Nelson will be cheaper this year.

[Iron Mike]

This can only mean one thing. Jones was caught messing around with MM's wife.

He got Ferguson'ed.

[Patler]

While nothing is assured, I have a hard time imagining the NFPLA agreeing to any FA situations more restrictive on the players than what they had two years ago, in which case all of the players in question, including Crosby and Colledge will be FAs. To be honest, I don't know why they bothered sending tenders to Colledge and Crosby.

Some teams tendered everyone they could, some ignored 4th and 5th year players and some tendered just a few, like the Packers did.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Seems unlikely though that someone who would give Jones a contract that would give the Packers pause also would not part with a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Though it would be revealing if they simply had enough of the hands and fumbles. Of course, Nelson has been no better in that dept. Though Nelson will be cheaper this year.

I think Nelson has been better. Just not as much this year.

[Lurker64]

I don't know why they bothered sending tenders to Colledge and Crosby.

Notably, the only people who they tendered were the guys who are starters. It may have just been a gesture to indicate "we would like to have you back" more than anything else. The various guys who were or would be backups were not offered tenders. That may have been the only standard.

Thompson may also not have felt comfortable extending RFA tenders to guys he would potentially cut during TC, though that applies much more to Hall, Jackson, and Spitz than it does to Jones.

[pbmax]

There is a limit to the kind of tenders that can apply in certain circumstances. I think in revolves around original round tenders and players drafted in the 2nd round or higher. Basically, a way to ensure a team only gets one chance to offer the lower money "original round" tender rather than apply a more expensive (and for the player, slightly more lucrative) 2nd round tender.

Does anyone have a link to available tenders for teams?

[Patler]

There is a limit to the kind of tenders that can apply in certain circumstances. I think in revolves around original round tenders and players drafted in the 2nd round or higher. Basically, a way to ensure a team only gets one chance to offer the lower money "original round" tender rather than apply a more expensive (and for the player, slightly more lucrative) 2nd round tender.

Does anyone have a link to available tenders for teams?

I never even thought of that. It could explain some of why they only offered two. Basically, they have to give upgraded offers just to receive the same compensation in those situations, they can't rely on the "round picked in" tender amount. It makes it more expensive.




(c) (i) Notwithstanding Subsections 2(b)(i) and 2(b)(ii) above, in the event that a Prior Club tenders any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in a draft round lower than the first round a Qualifying Offer that requires Draft Choice Compensation of one first round selection (the “(c)(i) Upgraded Tender”), the Prior Club shall only be eligible to receive Draft Choice Compensation of one second round selection for any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in the first round of the Draft, unless such Restricted Free Agents have each received a Qualifying Offer of at least the amount of the (c)(i) Upgraded Tender.
(ii) Notwithstanding Subsections 2(b)(i) and 2(b)(ii) above, in the event that a Prior Club tenders any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in a draft round lower than the second round a Qualifying Offer that requires Draft Choice Compensation of one second round selection (the “(c)(ii) Upgraded Tender”), the Prior Club shall only be eligible to receive Draft Choice Compensation of one third round selection for any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in the second round of the Draft, unless such Restricted Free Agents have each received a Qualifying Offer of at least the amount of the (c)(ii)Upgraded Tender.

[Fritz]

But wasn't Jones a third round pick?

[pbmax]

But wasn't Jones a third round pick?

Yes.

But given where Colledge was drafted (2nd round), they might not have had a 2nd round upgrade tender to use. To keep him, they might have had to use the 1st round tender or the 1st and 3rd tender, which increases the cost considerably. I suspect that cost put the Packers at a cap number with which they weren't comfortable. They still have players to sign plus draft picks and the new cap number is a total unknown.

The other option might be an original round tender (3rd for Jones), a pretty low dollar offer. It would be slightly better than a compensatory round pick if they lost him in FA, but only slightly. If as a FA, Jones and the Packers get blown out of the water with a big contract offer from someone else, so big the Packers won't compete, that contract will help push the FA compensation toward the 3rd round level. For a contract lower than that, the Packers might like to match or beat it. So the Packers could be gaming the system to keep an option open for Jones while not carrying his tender offer on the books.

What I don't remember is the year of the pick. If an RFA signs with someone else, is the pick from the current year draft or the next? Because the FA compensation pick would be for the following year.

[Patler]

Yes, Jones was a third round; but Colledge and Jackson were 2nd round picks. With Crosby upgraded to a second, Jackson and Colledge would have to be given "upgrade" tenders, not same round tenders. Jones, of course, would need an upgrade tender. Basically, any of the tenders would cost them $1.9 million. Perhaps they wanted to commit no more than $4 million to the tenders, which meant 2 players.

Of course they can still try to sign Jones, Jackson, Hall or any of the others. I could see them making offers to Spitz, Hall, Jackson and Swain for the vet minimum salaries that apply. Jones might be viewed as a too-expensive luxury when they have three other WRs and a couple TEs. Might be time for a less-expensive rookie to fill that spot.

[Smeefers]

Man, even though you guys break down the dollars and cents so well, I still get lost. I just can't think in terms of money when it comes to football, even though that's most likely the most concrete reason for what happened. I always sit back and think: Well, JJ was good enough to start someplace else and he has a good working relationship with the team, so they're leaving him open to check out other opportunities and he'll just come back with his best offer and see if the organization wants to match it. If they do or come close, he'll sign with the pack, if the other team offers him a starting position or something like that, he's gone, no hard feelings and all that. - I know this is complete garbage, but I can't help but think of that first.

What really surprises me is the tender to Kuhn. I would of guessed they'd actually let him go this year. They obviously like Hall much much more. They started Hall over Kuhn in the SB, so they must like him better. I still have a hard time seeing us keeping 3 FB's, but as TT has proved in the past, he's willing to keep unconventional choices. Watch out, next year we'll have two punters on our team.

[Lurker64]

PFT reported today that the Packers did tender both Jackson and Jones. So the reports that said they only tendered three players were incorrect. They probably tendered all of their RFAs, like all the other teams.

[SkinBasket]

Remove the drops -- Boldin type player.


LOL. Oh Jesus... Thanks for the laugh.

Remove Bigby's brain, feet, hips, hands, and hair and he's a Leroy Butler type player. Add the actual ability to hit guys hard, and he's a black Chuck Cecil. A dash of powdered shark testicles and you get...

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5986/unicornr.jpg

[HarveyWallbangers]

What really surprises me is the tender to Kuhn. I would of guessed they'd actually let him go this year. They obviously like Hall much much more. They started Hall over Kuhn in the SB, so they must like him better. I still have a hard time seeing us keeping 3 FB's, but as TT has proved in the past, he's willing to keep unconventional choices. Watch out, next year we'll have two punters on our team.

What? Perhaps they like Hall more as a FB. That's debatable with the way they rotate the FBs--depending on who they were playing. Even Quinn Johnson got several starts when they wanted a thumper in there. Kuhn has versatility. FB, HB, core ST players. That makes him more valuable than Hall. Let's also not forget that Kuhn is a warrior who doesn't miss games while Hall has become quite injury prone. I'm not surprised at all that Kuhn got tendered. He's a better overall football player.

[Fritz]

It would solve a few roster issues if TT could find ONE fullback who can thump like Johnson, play ST like Hall, and be dependable like Kuhn.

[Patler]

It would solve a few roster issues if TT could find ONE fullback who can thump like Johnson, play ST like Hall, and be dependable like Kuhn.

William Henderson is too old!

[Smeefers]

What? Perhaps they like Hall more as a FB. That's debatable with the way they rotate the FBs--depending on who they were playing. Even Quinn Johnson got several starts when they wanted a thumper in there. Kuhn has versatility. FB, HB, core ST players. That makes him more valuable than Hall. Let's also not forget that Kuhn is a warrior who doesn't miss games while Hall has become quite injury prone. I'm not surprised at all that Kuhn got tendered. He's a better overall football player.

I'm not saying Kuhn is a poor player, it just seemed to me that they prefered Hall over him in just about every circumstance. Johnson only started when Kuhn was getting a large number of snaps at tailback. Everyone loved Havner but they ended up dropping him like a sack of bricks. Just because we like him and he's a fan favorite doesn't mean they are as high on Kuhn as we are. He did well when put in the spotlight, but he's never been our first choice.

[Little Whiskey]

. A dash of powdered shark testicles and you get...



where do you find powdered shark testicles?

[Patler]

where do you find powdered shark testicles?

Have you tried Amazon? I think you can get anything from there.

[Smeefers]

Have you tried Amazon? I think you can get anything from there.

Havent you guys ever been to GMC? C'mon, there's like, two rows of the stuff.

[pbmax]

GMC puts powered shark testicles in its engines, not on its shelves.

Chuck Cecil was an inferior safety when he tried to hit everything like a cruise missile.

Hall is the Special Team Demon. Kuhn is more of a Special Team Lay Minister.

[swede]

GMC puts powered shark testicles in its engines, not on its shelves.

Chuck Cecil was an inferior safety when he tried to hit everything like a cruise missile.

Hall is the Special Team Demon. Kuhn is more of a Special Team Lay Minister.

Besides being danged entertaining, this post is sad proof that Packerrats may have been more of an influence on pbmax than pb has been on us.

It's like when a really smart kid transferred into your high school. Nothing you can do can make him not smart, but you can still talk him into putting dishwashing liquid in the pool before the big meet.