James Jones Wants to Start

[vince]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110307/PKR01/110307152/1058/Tender-hand-WR-Jones-search-starting-position


“My main thing going through all this, do I want to be a starter in the National Football League?” Jones said. “No question. Do I feel like I’m a starter? No question. … I know we have something great here. This team can win some championships for the next couple years.

“But, at the same time, I do want to be a starter. I don’t know if that’ll ever happen here with Donald (Driver) playing until he’s 40.”

[Fritz]

See ya, James. Sounds to me like he's ripe for any team willing to overpay him and give him a starting gig. Sounds like being a starter is worth more to him than getting fifty or sixty catches a year and playing for what looks to be a long-term contender.

[Patler]

I think he wants to stay, but also be paid reasonably well. Nothing wrong with that.


“When I was coming out of college my main goal was to stay at one place my whole career,” Jones said. “But at the same time you have to do what’s best for your family. At the same time, it’s not up to me. It’s up to the organization.
“Hopefully we can do something to keep me here. … It’s up to them. If they don’t want me back, I’ve got to go play somewhere else, right?”

[channtheman]

I think it's probably most guys goal to start in the NFL, especially younger ones. If Jones starts catching the ball he will easily be number 2/3 with Jordy and Jennings as the number 1. Driver will take more of a back up role (which we already saw start to happen this past year, Driver is not getting any better). Catch the ball this year, get paid well next offseason, and be a starter for one team that has a great chance at winning Super Bowls for the next 3-5 years should be his goals.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, I thought he came across very well in the article. I don't have a problem with anything he said. Perhaps Driver could volunteer to come off the bench. :)

[mission]

Actually, I thought he came across very well in the article. I don't have a problem with anything he said. Perhaps Driver could volunteer to come off the bench. :)

Agreed. I'm actually surprised with his comments, always took him as someone who didn't want to be here and just couldn't wait to go cash in with the Raiders or something.

I'd like to see us keep him around for the right price.

[Fritz]

I'm not saying he's a bad guy or his goals are unworthy; I'm simply suggesting that to me, it sounds like the case of a player who wants coin and starting more than he wants to play a role on a contending team. The whole "take care of my family line" is a classic example of a line a guy trots out when the paycheck is what's uppermost.

I'm not saying he's wrong or evil. Just that my guess is that he'll be gone. I'm not sure that Thompson or MM would be willing to guarantee starting work the way they appear to have done with Hawk and Bishop.

[Cheesehead Craig]

But what does the key phrase "Hopefully we can do something to keep me here. … It’s up to them. If they don’t want me back, I’ve got to go play somewhere else, right?” mean to Mr. Jones? Does it mean that the only way he sees the Pack as wanting him is if he's paid like a starter? Does it mean a longer term deal with lots of incentives? Here's hoping they are on the same page and Jones doesn't drop the ball on a deal with staying with a winner.

[Guiness]

It does sound to me like he's more likely gone than staying. As soon as I see the 'take care of my family' line I think they're going to go for the money, where ever it is.

It certainly doesn't sound like he's closing the door though. No mention of not being respected because he's not already a starter and been extended. That would've been a big nail in the coffin. Maybe the Pack can convince him to a one year contract, and another shot at a ring but still allowing him to hit FA in his prime?

[Scott Campbell]

I don't know how you commit big money and a long term contract to this guy at this point in his career. He hasn't proved reliable on the field. He's occasionally exceptional, and occasionally awful.

[Smidgeon]

With the way M3 spread the ball to his #2-#4 receivers, aren't they all pseudo-starters?

[Guiness]

I wonder if Jones understands how good he has it in GB, and how good the franchise is. Maybe a couple years of taking care of his family collecting a paycheck from a dysfunctional team would be character building.

I hope if he leaves, he signs with the Bengals, and has Palmer throwing him the ball. Jordan Palmer.

[Joemailman]

TT will put a value on Jones. That value will likely be that of a #2 WR at best. If some team wants to pay Jones as a #1, he'll be gone. Why wouldn't he? He won't be #1 here as long as Jennings is healthy. If, on the other hand, Jones' inconsistency causes teams to downgrade him a bit, TT should have a shot at signing him.

[Tarlam!]

TT will put a value on Jones. That value will likely be that of a #2 WR at best. If some team wants to pay Jones as a #1, he'll be gone. Why wouldn't he? He won't be #1 here as long as Jennings is healthy. If, on the other hand, Jones' inconsistency causes teams to downgrade him a bit, TT should have a shot at signing him.

This. Excellent analysis, IMO. Also agree with those that aren't offended by his comments, yet are wary about the "family man" cannon ball fired across the bow.

[Patler]

If any of you were in his shoes, what would you say?


"I've never really wanted to be a starter. I am perfectly content with being the #3 or #4 receiver, as long as Aaron Rodgers is throwing the ball to me. I know I could make more money elsewhere, but seriously, I will accept whatever Green Bay wants to pay me. Maybe I can't make enough to set-up my family for life, but so what? I can always get another job after my NFL career is done. I just want to be a Packer."

Some how, I doubt it.

[mraynrand]

There's not a huge separation between Jones and Driver in drops, so toss that out. But Driver has been willing to go into the middle and get clobbered. If Jones wants to start, then he has to beat out Driver - and Nelson - and show he can take a beating. And it would be nice if he could catch some more of those touchdown throws. I don't see anything wrong with his desire to be a starter, but his attitude has to be - "I've got to earn it." The Packers' attitude should be "You've got to earn it." Jordy Nelson's attitude should be "You've got to beat me out for the starting spot." I like it.

[Guiness]

If any of you were in his shoes, what would you say?



Some how, I doubt it.

You're right, that's not what anyone would say - and it's hard to imagine what a player could say in this situation and not come off looking at least a little bad. I think the safest thing is to just say I'd love to continue my career in GB, we'll see how negotiations go, that's in my agents hands, I'm just concerned with being the best player and teammate I can be.

As mentioned earlier, when 'taking care of family' gets mentioned you begin to worry. The comments about wanting to be a starter walked really close to the 'respect' mantra. You want to be a starter? I'm sure there's no glass ceiling in GB, if you're a better player than DD and Jordy, you'll be a starter. Get better than GJ, you'll be the #1 WR. It's not like you have to go elsewhere to earn that title, those guys haven't been given lifetime positions.

[Tarlam!]

I would say
I love having contributed to a SB winning team and bringing the Lombardi back home to the best fans in the world. I'm honoured that the organization values me enough to tender me and that gives me confidence that the club is interested in working out an amicable business arrangement that offers me the finacial security and freedom to pursue my goal of keeping the Lombardi at 1265. My personal professional goal of becoming a starter for the Packers someday soon goes without saying and I'm prepared to do whatever it takes and more to achieve that goal, but I know with guys like DD and Greg in front of me and the competition with Jordy and Brett I'll need to grow and have patience. I need to take advantage of every snap my number is called to let the team and coaches know just how reliable I am. Clearly, though, the business side needs to be addressed

But, that's just me.

[RashanGary]

I think what he's saying is, "The Packers have a lot of good receivers. It's going to be hard for me be crack the staring lineup here. If I'm not a starter, it might be hard for the Packers to pay me as one. I want to be a Packer but I'm worried they won't value me the way other teams will and I'll be gone"

In not so many words, I think that's what's going on with Jones. He has to take the money. He owes it to himself and his family. The way this is shaping up, it might not be with the Packers. There is a lot of uncertainty for a player like Jones who doesn't know if he's going to be making 2 million or 6 million per year. He's probably anxious, probably wants the Packers to reach out and make him a good offer. He's in a tough spot. He was talking about something very personal and important to him. I think he did pretty well.

[Patler]

I would say

But, that's just me.

Easy to do when you have time to think about it. Would you be so eloquent when a reporter sticks a mic in your face and asks a question?

Even so, isn't that about what he said? He deferred to Jennings and Driver as standing in his way, just as Jennings still refers to Driver as the #1 receiver on the team.

The "take care of my family" phrase comes from most players in a contract negotiations. Driver even said it a few years ago when he was unhappy with his contract. It seemed out of character for him, but he said it. It's their shorthand way of saying, "This isn't the game we played in high school and college anymore. It's a business and this is my job. A primary concern for me, you and everyone who works or wants to work is taking care of our families the best way that we can. Sometimes that includes changing jobs when pay, benefits and career aspirations are more promising elsewhere. Sometimes it includes passing up an opportunity when you decide it is better for your family that you not accept. But in the end, my family's well-being is the most important thing to me."

[Patler]

I think what he's saying is, "The Packers have a lot of good receivers. It's going to be hard for me be crack the staring lineup here. If I'm not a starter, it might be hard for the Packers to pay me as one. I want to be a Packer but I'm worried they won't value me the way other teams will and I'll be gone"

In not so many words, I think that's what's going on with Jones. He has to take the money. He owes it to himself and his family. The way this is shaping up, it might not be with the Packers. There is a lot of uncertainty for a player like Jones who doesn't know if he's going to be making 2 million or 6 million per year. He's probably anxious, probably wants the Packers to reach out and make him a good offer. He's in a tough spot. He was talking about something very personal and important to him. I think he did pretty well.

I agree. Subconsciously, he was probably hoping Driver would retire. It would put added value on him for the Packers. No different than when the rest of us look at our potential career paths at the company we work for. Kampman decided that he no longer had the career path he want in GB, so he left, because other teams valued him higher in their schemes and offered more money. He decided he would enjoy their job better than the one the Packers had available. Its no different for Jones.

[Tarlam!]

Easy to do when you have time to think about it. Would you be so eloquent when a reporter sticks a mic in your face and asks a question?

He was bound to be asked questions like that given his status, so I would expect his agent to have coached him up. It's called "preparation". So, yes, my answer would have been very similar to what I wrote.

[mraynrand]

.

The "take care of my family" phrase comes from most players in a contract negotiations. Driver even said it a few years ago when he was unhappy with his contract. It seemed out of character for him, but he said it. It's their shorthand way of saying, "This isn't the game we played in high school and college anymore. It's a business and this is my job. A primary concern for me, you and everyone who works or wants to work is taking care of our families the best way that we can. Sometimes that includes changing jobs when pay, benefits and career aspirations are more promising elsewhere. Sometimes it includes passing up an opportunity when you decide it is better for your family that you not accept. But in the end, my family's well-being is the most important thing to me."

That's exactly what came out of google translator: english to pro athlete. Well done

[vince]

I agree with Fritz and Tar. I don't have issue with what he said in terms of judging him as a person. I do think what he said is telling in terms of where his head is at. Every free agent with a brain says they want to come back to their current team so that means nothing IMO. The tender is a non-move in his eyes and he's intending to test the free agent waters to the fullest. There are a lot of receivers out there, but I suspect he'll be as attractive as some of the older guys with bigger names but more mileage and baggage.

Ted has already been forced to give Hawk a signing bonus, pushing cap dollars into the future rathing than paying now which he doesn't want to do. But he had to in order to keep Hawk and stay where they tghink they need to be with the coming cap.

Guys like Jones who are good but not elite and not team leaders that are looking for paydays (don't blame them) are going to be lost. Ted needs to continue to replace them with quality cheaper draftees as he's been able to do thus far.

That was very well said btw Tar.

[Patler]

He was bound to be asked questions like that given his status, so I would expect his agent to have coached him up. It's called "preparation". So, yes, my answer would have been very similar to what I wrote.

Well, good for you. That sure hasn't been my experience. I have been in that position many times in my life, when I knew I would be a spokesman and would be asked questions. When I had mentally prepared my answers. I can't tell you how many times after it was over I thought, "That didn't come out the way I wanted it to." or "I wish I hadn't said THAT." or "Why didn't I say that instead?"

In the end, these guys are jocks, not PR specialists. I think Jones' answers were perfectly fine. Finding fault in what he said is simply nitpicking, in my opinion.

[Tarlam!]

Well, good for you. That sure hasn't been my experience. I have been in that position many times in my life, when I knew I would be a spokesman and would be asked questions. When I had mentally prepared my answers. I can't tell you how many times after it was over I thought, "That didn't come out the way I wanted it to." or "I wish I hadn't said THAT." or "Why didn't I say that instead?"

In the end, these guys are jocks, not PR specialists. I think Jones' answers were perfectly fine. Finding fault in what he said is simply nitpicking, in my opinion.

You seem to be getting bent out of shape, but I don't get why. You invented a character, then invented a quote and asked if any of us expected a similar quote to be a reality. I in no way critized what Jones actually said, I merely answered your hypothetical. Then you challenged me on it and I assured you my preparation would have been such that I feel confident my answer would have come out like I wanted. As you, I have held position where I've a lead negotiator, I've had press mikes in my face, unlike you, I have never said I wish I hadn't said that". At worst, I've said, I shouldn't have stayed up all night drinking or, geez, I wish I'd prepared better.

I know they are jocks, but they can learn complex routes and blocking assignments etc. Surely they can learn a string of sentences. Again, I didn't criticize a thing about what he said.

[Patler]

I do think what he said is telling in terms of where his head is at. Every free agent with a brain says they want to come back to their current team so that means nothing IMO. The tender is a non-move in his eyes and he's intending to test the free agent waters to the fullest. There are a lot of receivers out there, but I suspect he'll be as attractive as some of the older guys with bigger names but more mileage and baggage.

I suspect the tender is a non-move in everyones eyes, including the Packers. It's almost certain that Jones will be an unrestricted FA when a new CBA is signed, just as he would have been under the old CBA. All of these tenders by the Packers will be meaningless, in my opinion. They will simply have no effect at all, because anyone with 4 or more years will be unrestricted.



Guys like Jones who are good but not elite and not team leaders that are looking for paydays (don't blame them) are going to be lost. Ted needs to continue to replace them with quality cheaper draftees as he's been able to do thus far.

I agree completely. Unfortunately, as Belichick said in an article a few years ago, every good team has to have talented players who contribute while being underpaid. There simply isn't enough money to go around otherwise. The easiest way to achieve that is with players who contribute to your team during years 1-4 of their careers. Players older than that have to be starters, almost, or they cost too much.

[Patler]

You seem to be getting bent out of shape, but I don't get why. You invented a character, then invented a quote and asked if any of us expected a similar quote to be a reality. I in no way critized what Jones actually said, I merely answered your hypothetical. Then you challenged me on it and I assured you my preparation would have been such that I feel confident my answer would have come out like I wanted. As you, I have held position where I've a lead negotiator, I've had press mikes in my face, unlike you, I have never said I wish I hadn't said that". At worst, I've said, I shouldn't have stayed up all night drinking or, geez, I wish I'd prepared better.

I know they are jocks, but they can learn complex routes and blocking assignments etc. Surely they can learn a string of sentences. Again, I didn't criticize a thing about what he said.

Nope, not bent out of shape at all. I just think most fans expect perfection from these dumb jocks, and you aren't going to get it.

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known who claims to have never misspoken in public, or who never regretted the words they have chosen. Even the most accomplished public speakers I have known all had moments they regretted. I suspect you are not being honest with yourself.

[Tarlam!]

Nope, not bent out of shape at all. I just think most fans expect perfection from these dumb jocks, and you aren't going to get it.

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known who claims to have never misspoken in public, or who never regretted the words they have chosen. Even the most accomplished public speakers I have known all had moments they regretted. I suspect you are not being honest with yourself.

This getting too personal for me, Patler. To reiterate, I answered your hypo and your challenge. You think you know me, but in fact, you know a cyber me. Skin, Nutz, Bretsky, Partial, Ziggy, Mad, OPF, GB Rulz, Pip, Harvey, Superfan and Ras have actually met me and will tell you I drink too much, but when sober and prepared, there's a remarkablely high chance that I won't stick my foot in my mouth.

So, my statement of regretting being ill prepared or not on my game because of a hangover stands alone. Further, when I am prepared, as Jones most certainly should have been given his status, I have never ever had to regret what I said to a reporter or into a mic.

I hate public speaking and I admit to being the worst public speaker I know, but I have zero issues in negotiations or with journos or before running cameras.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Jones came across better than I thought he would. He sounds like somebody who is unsure if the Packers will retain him, but would be happy to return. He also sounds like he wouldn't have an axe to grind if he went elsewhere. I was more impressed with his attitude than Cullen Jenkins--although I don't really begrudge Jenkins for feeling the way he feels either.

[gbgary]

he'll just have to beat out DD. if he can do that then more power to him.

[3irty1]

TT gets this done is my guess. He always takes care of his own and I bet it'll be surprisingly easy.

What is the most you'd pay him per year?

[RashanGary]

4.5M/Year would be good for Jones.

That's Nate Burleson, Antoine Randel El, Chris Chambers money.


Jones reminds me a lot of Joe Horn. I could see Jones blowing up if he gets a starting gig and being worth well above that deal. I don't see him flaming out and being worth less. That is a good deal for Jones.

[Patler]

You think you know me, but in fact, you know a cyber me. Skin, Nutz, Bretsky, Partial, Ziggy, Mad, OPF, GB Rulz, Pip, Harvey, Superfan and Ras have actually met me and will tell you I drink too much, but when sober and prepared, there's a remarkablely high chance that I won't stick my foot in my mouth.

So, my statement of regretting being ill prepared or not on my game because of a hangover stands alone. Further, when I am prepared, as Jones most certainly should have been given his status, I have never ever had to regret what I said to a reporter or into a mic.


I think I know you??? What the hell gave you that idea? I don't think that I know you at all. Nor do you know me. I know no one on this board and no one knows me. It is better that way.

However, I stand by my statement. You are the only individual that I have conversed with who is required to express themselves publicly, and will not admit to having done so poorly at one time or another. You are the only one who has not admitted to regretting how they expressed themselves at one time or another, regardless of how well prepared they have been. I don't need to know you to say that. I only need to read your claim, and recall the many, many others with whom I have dealt who readily admit to having prepared endlessly, yet still fumbled on occasion. You are the only one, and that is what makes me suspect.

But, to push this a bit further, assuming that you are perfect when prepared (don't take this personally, you are the one who has claimed this status), it is because that is what is expected of you. It's your "job" so to speak (play on phrase). It is not Jones' job to be a speaker. It's his job to be a football player. I don't expect him to be able to address the public as well as someone who does that as part of their job.

[Patler]

I think Jones came across better than I thought he would. He sounds like somebody who is unsure if the Packers will retain him, but would be happy to return. He also sounds like he wouldn't have an axe to grind if he went elsewhere. I was more impressed with his attitude than Cullen Jenkins--although I don't really begrudge Jenkins for feeling the way he feels either.

I was thinking the same thing. I don't necessarily blame Jenkins either, but some of his comments seem as if he doesn't want to return. Of course, Kampman apparently had no interest in returning either. He just said little to nothing about it.

I wonder if Kampman regrets not having accepted the position change more enthusiastically? I think he was better than Zombo. Hard to say about the others, they played so little.

[Iron Mike]

If any of you were in his shoes, what would you say?



Some how, I doubt it.

http://www.kaneland.org/d302/hof/hof_img/dbeebe.jpg

[RashanGary]

Hawk didn't sound very impressed earlier this year when he wasn't starting. I believe there were comments that he'd be happy to go somewhere where he would be able to start, either from him or his agent. I thought they were from him.

Nobody is happy when they aren't starting.

[Bossman641]

I didn't think Jones sounded bad in what he said at all. I'd love to keep him around but he's not a guy you can break the bank for, and I wouldn't blame him in the least if he wanted to test the waters elsewhere.

[Lurker64]

I think, honestly, I'd rather have Jordy as my #2 than Jones.

[Fritz]

"I know I've dropped certain touchdown passes in key playoff situations; nonetheless, I need to make as much money as I can because an NFL player's career is notoriously short. Thus, if Green Bay is willing to pay me like a starter, I will stay. If not, I will go. Dan Snyder is easier to bend over than the sheep on Jordy Nelson's farm."

[Bretsky]

I see Jones value in the 3.5-4.5 MIL per year range; other teams IMO will value him on the higher end of that or even higher.

If you want to start, then walk the walk Mr Jones. He needs to earn that

[Freak Out]

I think Jones will be back....and if he gets his shit together he"ll end up the #3 guy unless something happens to Nelson. But....DD could shock me and come back strong and beat these guys out again in training camp again.

[mission]

I see Jones value in the 3.5-4.5 MIL per year range; other teams IMO will value him on the higher end of that or even higher.

If you want to start, then walk the walk Mr Jones. He needs to earn that

Which is why I think we might have a chance at keeping him. Had you asked me midway through the season, I'd say there's no way he'd sign for 4m a year.

But he has a lot of stuff going against him. People will attribute much of his success to Aaron Rodgers, the system and being 1 WR out of 4-5. Two dropped playoff TD passes on national TV might have cost this guy 3-4m/yr on a loose open market.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I have been a big Jones supporter, esp. this past year. I probably want him to stay in Green Bay as much as anyone on this forum. But I disagree on his value. He is simply not worth 3-5 million a year at this point in his career. I want him to stay in Green Bay b/c think he can BECOME a great WR, but he has yet to prove he IS a great WR. All I see is a lot of potential yet to be fulfilled.

You can’t expect to be paid starters money dropping 10 passes with half of them being 80 yard TD's. If he would have dropped 5 passes instead of 10 he probably adds 250 yards and 3 TD's or so to his stats. He would have had a dam good season, but he didn’t.

I actually hated hearing him say "but Driver wants to play until he is 40." SO WHAT! That means nothing really. If JJ out plays Driver and Nelson he will be the starter and he shouldn't expect anything less than having to fight for it. If he can’t beat out a soon to be 37 year old WR, who in IMO has slowed down some, when he is in the prime of his career than he shouldn’t be a starter. A fair contract for him would be to sign a 2 year 4 mil dollar contract and earn the starting spot.

He has a sweet deal in Green Bay. He has a top 5 QB, top ten wr in Jennings, and a top 5 TE in Finely to take pressure off him. If he would just stop dropping passes and play more consistently he would have the easiest number 2 wr position in the whole league. He would be single covered almost every play.

I still want Jones to stay, but if he out prices himself then he just has to go. The team can’t be paying 5 mil a year to every player on the team. If you are going to be paid as one of the best you have to prove it and he has yet to do that for even ONE full year

[Little Whiskey]

"I know I've dropped certain touchdown passes in key playoff situations; nonetheless, I need to make as much money as I can because an NFL player's career is notoriously short. Thus, if Green Bay is willing to pay me like a starter, I will stay. If not, I will go. Dan Snyder is easier to bend over than the sheep on Jordy Nelson's farm."

this!

[ThunderDan]

I have been a big Jones supporter, esp. this past year. I probably want him to stay in Green Bay as much as anyone on this forum. But I disagree on his value. He is simply not worth 3-5 million a year at this point in his career. I want him to stay in Green Bay b/c think he can BECOME a great WR, but he has yet to prove he IS a great WR. All I see is a lot of potential yet to be fulfilled.

You can’t expect to be paid starters money dropping 10 passes with half of them being 80 yard TD's. If he would have dropped 5 passes instead of 10 he probably adds 250 yards and 3 TD's or so to his stats. He would have had a dam good season, but he didn’t.

I actually hated hearing him say "but Driver wants to play until he is 40." SO WHAT! That means nothing really. If JJ out plays Driver and Nelson he will be the starter and he shouldn't expect anything less than having to fight for it. If he can’t beat out a soon to be 37 year old WR, who in IMO has slowed down some, when he is in the prime of his career than he shouldn’t be a starter. A fair contract for him would be to sign a 2 year 4 mil dollar contract and earn the starting spot.

He has a sweet deal in Green Bay. He has a top 5 QB, top ten wr in Jennings, and a top 5 TE in Finely to take pressure off him. If he would just stop dropping passes and play more consistently he would have the easiest number 2 wr position in the whole league. He would be single covered almost every play.

I still want Jones to stay, but if he out prices himself then he just has to go. The team can’t be paying 5 mil a year to every player on the team. If you are going to be paid as one of the best you have to prove it and he has yet to do that for even ONE full year

Excellent post!

[SkinBasket]

Mr. Jones has permission to formally fist himself until he dies. He will then be buried with that horse that killed the gay teacher with it's cock.

[MJZiggy]

I hate public speaking and I admit to being the worst public speaker I know, but I have zero issues in negotiations or with journos or before running cameras.

You are most certainly not the worst public speaker you know. I totally suck at it.

[bobblehead]

I think what he's saying is, "The Packers have a lot of good receivers. It's going to be hard for me be crack the staring lineup here. If I'm not a starter, it might be hard for the Packers to pay me as one. I want to be a Packer but I'm worried they won't value me the way other teams will and I'll be gone"

In not so many words, I think that's what's going on with Jones. He has to take the money. He owes it to himself and his family. The way this is shaping up, it might not be with the Packers. There is a lot of uncertainty for a player like Jones who doesn't know if he's going to be making 2 million or 6 million per year. He's probably anxious, probably wants the Packers to reach out and make him a good offer. He's in a tough spot. He was talking about something very personal and important to him. I think he did pretty well.

Close to nailing it JH. I know those of us not making a million a year don't like the "take care of my family" line, but think this way. As a #3 in GB he can rake 2 million a year. As a #2 somewhere its more like 4 million a year. We aren't talking about a guy who is the #1 and is giving the hometeam discount from 9 million down to 7.5 million. For JJ, if he can double up from 2 to 4 million, its a monster difference (after taxes especially). You can't expect a guy to love playing for the Packers THAT much...its just not realistic. I will wait to see how this plays out.

[bobblehead]

I actually hated hearing him say "but Driver wants to play until he is 40." SO WHAT! That means nothing really. If JJ out plays Driver and Nelson he will be the starter and he shouldn't expect anything less than having to fight for it. If he can’t beat out a soon to be 37 year old WR, who in IMO has slowed down some, when he is in the prime of his career than he shouldn’t be a starter. A fair contract for him would be to sign a 2 year 4 mil dollar contract and earn the starting spot.


Maybe that was a subtle shot? He had a great game when he started for driver. Better than any game driver had I think. Perhaps he thinks the coaching staff isn't giving him a fair shot at beating out a veteran....sort of like Bishop felt that way. Sort of like I feel about players at times. I simply DO NOT believe coaches have an open mind about players most of the time. They have a preconceived notion and stick with it unless BLOWN away by the 2nd guy.

[rbaloha1]

JJ was always confident -- a good receiver trait.

Does not deserve starter's pay or starting job. Long live DD!

[Tarlam!]

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known


I think I know you??? What the hell gave you that idea?(...) You are the only one, and that is what makes me suspect.

assuming that you are perfect when prepared (don't take this personally, you are the one who has claimed this status)

So, twist all you want, but you used the term "I have ever known". That's what the hell gave me that idea. Frankly, I don't give a toss what makes you suspect. You've never read here that I profess to know anything about football and I am probably the most willing of any of us posters to admit on here my mistakes.

Tell me again where I said I was perfect or claimed this status? What I said was I have no regrets. Tell me again where I criticised Jones, because that's what this thread is about.

And, no Zig, I hate standing on stage more than anything. I am the worst public speaker. I'm Sparticus!

[Pugger]

This doesn't seem to be much of a story. You can tell this is the offseason, we need the draft to commence, soon.

[Patler]

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever knownSo, twist all you want, but you used the term "I have ever known". That's what the hell gave me that idea. Frankly, I don't give a toss what makes you suspect. You've never read here that I profess to know anything about football and I am probably the most willing of any of us posters to admit on here my mistakes.


Ah come on. You know better than to snip a quote such that you change the meaning like that. My full quote was:


I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known who claims to have never misspoken in public, or who never regretted the words they have chosen. Even the most accomplished public speakers I have known all had moments they regretted. I suspect you are not being honest with yourself.

In case you misunderstand, let me restate. It's not intended to imply knowing you personally, its knowing your claim of never having regretted what you said:


I assured you my preparation would have been such that I feel confident my answer would have come out like I wanted. As you, I have held position where I've a lead negotiator, I've had press mikes in my face, unlike you, I have never said I wish I hadn't said that". At worst, I've said, I shouldn't have stayed up all night drinking or, geez, I wish I'd prepared better.

I have known many, many public speakers who prepare endlessly, and still make mistakes and have regrets for what they say in an extemporaneous setting. Apparently you do not suffer from that failing. I'm sure it serves you well.

I'm done. Have the last word if you wish. No hard feelings. Let's meet again at a football topic! :glug:

[Tarlam!]

I hardly think Jones was in an extemporaneous setting; you seem to. The line of questioning was as certain as an Amen in church on Sundays. His agent should have coached him up. I didn't find any offense at all in what he said. I merely took up your challenge.

No hard feelings.

[Smeefers]

I see Jones value in the 3.5-4.5 MIL per year range; other teams IMO will value him on the higher end of that or even higher.

If you want to start, then walk the walk Mr Jones. He needs to earn that

Jennings Rec:76 Yards:1265 TD:12
Driver Rec:51 Yards:565 TD:4
Jones Rec:50 Yards:679 TD:5
Nelson Rec:45 Yards:582 TD:2

Looking at it, I'd say Jones is walking the walk. Despite being the #3, he's getting startling more yards. If he's on our team next year, I think he should get the starting job. He's playing at a higher level than any of the other WR's (besides Jennings). Yes, he's had some high profile drops, but people like to forget about all the awesome stuff he does. Only guy on our team to seems to be able to scoop the ball at his ankles. He also makes some of the most athletic catches on the team.

I don't think the problem Jones is having is his skill level or his 4 drops this year or his attitude. His problem is that he's surrounded by guys who can catch. Finley, Jennings, Jones, Driver, Nelson. Those are five guys who can catch the ball and make something happen. When you are, at best, the third best reciver on the team and at worst the 5th, your negotiating power is gone, even if you have the ability to start and get 60+ catches a year on any number of NFL teams. He knows the number of catches he's going to get is not going to increase, it's going to dwindle. Lets say Jones starts next year. Does he get 50 Catches? Doubtfull. Finely will be back, getting 50-60-70 catches. There's just not enough ball to go around.

[Tarlam!]

If you do the numbers, Smeefers, he averages 1/2 yard per reception more than Nelson. They both average more than DD. But that's a superficial way of analysing it, IMO.

It would be interesting to compare how often the respective numbers were called, how many drops were made by each and who the primary receiver was supposed to be on each pass play called . Obviously, we fans won't ever get those numbers (except the drops) to really be able to grade them.

As far as # of TDs as a stat, one could break that down to YAC TD, Big Play TD etc etc.

Of course we can assess what we see happening on TV, but we can't know the whole story, which I will trust TT.

[Bretsky]

Driver missed several games due to injury, and Jones "dropped" several opportunities to make the case for himself as a starter

[pbmax]

Maybe that was a subtle shot? He had a great game when he started for driver. Better than any game driver had I think. Perhaps he thinks the coaching staff isn't giving him a fair shot at beating out a veteran....sort of like Bishop felt that way. Sort of like I feel about players at times. I simply DO NOT believe coaches have an open mind about players most of the time. They have a preconceived notion and stick with it unless BLOWN away by the 2nd guy.

If true, then how do you explain Nelson getting more reps and more use as the season wore on? In this case I agree with Silverstein, that Jones had too many mediocre efforts surrounding his better game(s), and surrendered the 3 WR to Nelson by the end of the year. For a while, I thought Rodgers was propping him up by continuing to throw to him on the outside. I didn't share Rodgers trust.

By the playoffs, Nelson was back to being a true 3rd option, culminated by his Super Bowl effort. And this is despite Nelson having a poor year with more drops than ever before. But I think Jones dropped his way to number 4, more than Driver supplanted him as #2.

He blew a big chance this year. Now I am not completely sold on Nelson. Jones has had big games too, and just because it was the Super Bowl doesn't guarantee him future success. But except for getting open deep, Jones has not improved much since his rookie campaign and he displays the same flaws he had then.

I have no problem with his comments unless they indicate that Jones thinks he has arrived. Because he hasn't arrived as a starter yet, there are too many areas that need improvement.

[Smeefers]

He blew a big chance this year. Now I am not completely sold on Nelson. Jones has had big games too, and just because it was the Super Bowl doesn't guarantee him future success. But except for getting open deep, Jones has not improved much since his rookie campaign and he displays the same flaws he had then.

Agreed. Jones hasn't really improved on his flaws. Over the course of his career he's bumbled a lot of opportunities and he's actually blown games. Man, I'm a flag waving in the wind with this guy, aren't I?

And of course you're right Tar, the comparison I put up is not a complete examination. I figured it'd help to put a snapshot of our WR's year up there. People have been beatin on Jones like he owes them money and I think some of it is undeserved. I suppose the best way I can put it is like this: I trust Nelson more, I think he shined in the biggest game and is still getting better. That said, I think Jones is more talented, but less dependable. He's streaky. If he was given more opportunities, I think he would perform better, but that's never going to happen here with the wealth of talent we have.

[Joe]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned. Some folks think that both Jones and Jordy will displace Driver. I don't think that's going to happen, because the #4 WR typically plays special teams. If Jordy makes the #2 as some of you think he will, then does he give up his ST duties? If so, who takes them? Driver? I don't see that.

Actually, what I see, is if Jones comes back, and they both pass Driver, then I think Driver might be waived, or choose to retire. I just don't see him as a #4 WR because of the ST responsibilities. On that basis, if TT believes that Driver can be a quality #3, Jones may have less value to him than he normally would have, since you can develop two young wideouts before Driver has to retire.

I'm just not sure Jones is back, and I really think it depends on if we draft a WR early in the draft.

[mraynrand]

Funny, I saw Tramon Williams and Bishop out there on special teams last season.

[RashanGary]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned. Some folks think that both Jones and Jordy will displace Driver. I don't think that's going to happen, because the #4 WR typically plays special teams. If Jordy makes the #2 as some of you think he will, then does he give up his ST duties? If so, who takes them? Driver? I don't see that.

Actually, what I see, is if Jones comes back, and they both pass Driver, then I think Driver might be waived, or choose to retire. I just don't see him as a #4 WR because of the ST responsibilities. On that basis, if TT believes that Driver can be a quality #3, Jones may have less value to him than he normally would have, since you can develop two young wideouts before Driver has to retire.

I'm just not sure Jones is back, and I really think it depends on if we draft a WR early in the draft.


I'm on board with this. It's like the Hawk situation. There are some tough decisions to make this offseason. It's incredibly hard to predict what will happen. I think Jones has Joe Horn talent so that makes him a #1. He has inconsistent hands. That makes him a guy people love to hate. He's never had a chance to start so he's never put up big numbers. He had the year he lost to injury.

I tend to think he'll be back just on talent but the situation makes it so uncertain.

I've proven with the Hawk thing, I have no clue. I'll put my chips on having him back and hope the roulette wheel falls on Green.

[RashanGary]

Funny, I saw Tramon Williams and Bishop out there on special teams last season.

Collins and Hawk too.

[mission]

I'm on board with this. It's like the Hawk situation. There are some tough decisions to make this offseason. It's incredibly hard to predict what will happen. I think Jones has Joe Horn talent so that makes him a #1. He has inconsistent hands. That makes him a guy people love to hate. He's never had a chance to start so he's never put up big numbers. He had the year he lost to injury.

I tend to think he'll be back just on talent but the situation makes it so uncertain.

I've proven with the Hawk thing, I have no clue. I'll put my chips on having him back and hope the roulette wheel falls on Green.

I'd hope we have a slightly better chance of getting Jones back then that happening! :)

[swede]

"I know I've dropped certain touchdown passes in key playoff situations; nonetheless, I need to make as much money as I can because an NFL player's career is notoriously short. Thus, if Green Bay is willing to pay me like a starter, I will stay. If not, I will go. Dan Snyder is easier to bend over than the sheep on Jordy Nelson's farm."Good use of bend over.

[Joe]

Funny, I saw Tramon Williams and Bishop out there on special teams last season.

It isn't typical to see your starting receivers on ST. It also isn't typical to see other starters play ST. This years GBP team wasn't typical. I just don't believe you see Donald Driver out there on ST. I think he's gone before that happens. Maybe you keep Jones on ST, but the 1 & 2 guys will be practicing with the offense and won't have time for ST practice, nor do I believe that the team will want to take the injury risk with its top receivers.

[Fritz]

Good use of bend over.

Red Rover Red Rover, Dan Snyder bends over!

[Smeefers]

It isn't typical to see your starting receivers on ST. It also isn't typical to see other starters play ST. This years GBP team wasn't typical. I just don't believe you see Donald Driver out there on ST. I think he's gone before that happens. Maybe you keep Jones on ST, but the 1 & 2 guys will be practicing with the offense and won't have time for ST practice, nor do I believe that the team will want to take the injury risk with its top receivers.

I don't see Both Nelson and Jones jumping over DD. DD will still be great in the slot, so that'll keep him at #3. If they do move the depth chart around, I have no doubt that they'd make an exception for driver and put their #3 in ST instead of him.

[Smidgeon]

I don't see Both Nelson and Jones jumping over DD. DD will still be great in the slot, so that'll keep him at #3. If they do move the depth chart around, I have no doubt that they'd make an exception for driver and put their #3 in ST instead of him.

I don't think he'll be "great" in the slot anymore. The injuries started this last year (and could get better, but less likely than them getting worse), and he's been dropping more balls later in his career than earlier. While I think he could be "good" in the slot, I don't think it's a reach that (if Jones does come back) both Jones and Nelson surpass him.

[Smeefers]

I don't think he'll be "great" in the slot anymore. The injuries started this last year (and could get better, but less likely than them getting worse), and he's been dropping more balls later in his career than earlier. While I think he could be "good" in the slot, I don't think it's a reach that (if Jones does come back) both Jones and Nelson surpass him.

But... But... Donald Driver is immortal. There can be only one...

[mraynrand]

I don't think he'll be "great" in the slot anymore.

Shouldn't this be in the Tiki Barber thread?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Jones parallels Bishop quite a bit. Bishop always flashed talent and talked about how he is a starter, but never got the chance until Barnett went down. I think if Jones stays in Green Bay he will eventually pass Driver on the depth chart and show he is a quality starter. The problem is we need him to see it as an opportunity to prove himself instead of taking the easy way out and going to the highest bidder.

I think he is more talented than Nelson and is already a better WR than Driver. I think the key to him staying will be does he actually want to be patient and put it the extra work or does he just want the most amount money he can get right now. Will he spend extra time in the offseason training, working on his hands, showing coaching to is dedicated to getting better? Finely and Jennings both go to Fitzgerald’s training for Wr’s every year, why doesn’t he go with them?

The way he is talking it sounds like he is going to the highest bidder and that won’t be us. A lot of talent, but very inconsistant so I don't blame TT if he doesn't throw money at him. He could be a great WR but right now he simply is not.

[pbmax]

Jones parallels Bishop quite a bit. Bishop always flashed talent and talked about how he is a starter, but never got the chance until Barnett went down. I think if Jones stays in Green Bay he will eventually pass Driver on the depth chart and show he is a quality starter. The problem is we need him to see it as an opportunity to prove himself instead of taking the easy way out and going to the highest bidder.

I think he is more talented than Nelson and is already a better WR than Driver. I think the key to him staying will be does he actually want to be patient and put it the extra work or does he just want the most amount money he can get right now. Will he spend extra time in the offseason training, working on his hands, showing coaching to is dedicated to getting better? Finely and Jennings both go to Fitzgerald’s training for Wr’s every year, why doesn’t he go with them?

The way he is talking it sounds like he is going to the highest bidder and that won’t be us. A lot of talent, but very inconsistant so I don't blame TT if he doesn't throw money at him. He could be a great WR but right now he simply is not.

I see your point and he might improve if asked to step up, but Jones has had a lot more opportunity than Bishop had to play meaningful snaps in regular season and playoff games. Just the number of plays each had been involved with outside of preseason would favor Jones by a wide margin. I think we know him better than Bishop. Of course, I have been wrong before.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I see your point and he might improve if asked to step up, but Jones has had a lot more opportunity than Bishop had to play meaningful snaps in regular season and playoff games. Just the number of plays each had been involved with outside of preseason would favor Jones by a wide margin. I think we know him better than Bishop. Of course, I have been wrong before.

Up until the middle of the year, he's also had more opportunity to play than Nelson. When they evened out the snaps between Nelson and Jones in the second half of the year, Nelson was more productive.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I see your point and he might improve if asked to step up, but Jones has had a lot more opportunity than Bishop had to play meaningful snaps in regular season and playoff games. Just the number of plays each had been involved with outside of preseason would favor Jones by a wide margin. I think we know him better than Bishop. Of course, I have been wrong before.

Yep are you right, he has had the opportunity. That is why didn't like him mentioning Driver playing until he is 40 b/c if he went out and proved he was clearly better he would be the starter. For whatever reason he drops big passing which keeps him low on the depth chart. However, I believe that with all the talent this guy has that if GIVEN the starting job like Bishop basically was that he would respond. Again, I don't blame TT for not throwing money at him, b/c Jones has yet to prove he can be trusted being the starter.