NFLPA and NFLAA not getting along

[Patler]

Apparently, a rather contentious meeting between the retired players and the NFLPA.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2011/03/26/2011-03-26_former_giants_de_george_martin_head_of_nfl_alum ni_group_calls_meeting_with_nflpa.html

[Scott Campbell]

Apparently, a rather contentious meeting between the retired players and the NFLPA.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2011/03/26/2011-03-26_former_giants_de_george_martin_head_of_nfl_alum ni_group_calls_meeting_with_nflpa.html


It's hard to know what's what with the built in conflict of interest.

[Patler]

Ya, especially with the NFLPA seemingly having an overall attitude of distrust the last few years.

[swede]

I've mused this before, but how exactly do professional football players work up the mindset of being oppressed and exploited?

Certainly the constant exposure to pain and injury and the physical issues that compromise long-term health may stoke feelings of being treated as an expendable commodity, but no amount of money can make the health issues go away. I have a feeling that the players are looking for something other than simple monetary gain. It seems as if they have made this personal when it should be about business. I don't know that they are going to ever find what they are looking for.

Even their retired brethren don't get them anymore.

[Scott Campbell]

I've mused this before, but how exactly do professional football players work up the mindset of being oppressed and exploited?



With a lot of help from this guy:

http://www.mkrob.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/drew514.jpg

[gbgary]

I've mused this before, but how exactly do professional football players work up the mindset of being oppressed and exploited?

Certainly the constant exposure to pain and injury and the physical issues that compromise long-term health may stoke feelings of being treated as an expendable commodity, but no amount of money can make the health issues go away. I have a feeling that the players are looking for something other than simple monetary gain. It seems as if they have made this personal when it should be about business. I don't know that they are going to ever find what they are looking for.

Even their retired brethren don't get them anymore.


yup...they're the one's who chose to play a game for millions of dollars. they could have chosen the fast-food or landscaping industries.

[MJZiggy]

"This is first time in my life I ever witnessed two organizations that are separated because of irreconcilable similarities," Martin said.

I think I need this for my sig.

[packerbacker1234]

Honestly when you break down the entire mess of what the new CBA should be and who is in the right and the wrong, the Players continually make themselves out to be petty. Look, I understand wanting the books opened, and the owners refusing to do it - I understand that core issue, but at some point if the owners just WONT budge, you just have to accept that fact. You make MILLIONS of dollars playing this game. You're an employee, one of which thousands are waiting to take your place. Get over your issues and get a deal DONE.

Disagreeing and, apparently, being extremely judgemental of the retired players does not look well for your organization as it continues to fight with owners for a better deal. Sure, they may be "funded" by the NFL, but guess what players YOUR MONEY COMES FROM THE NFL TOO, MAYBE WE SHOULD QUESTION YOUR MOTIVES AS WELL.

If it deals with the NFL, like it or not it's funded by the NFL because your PART of it. I am sick of the players continuing to think they are "owed" something. They have some of the best lifetime medical coverage in the world. They make a hell of a lot of money for working very few years, and htis is because of the shortened life expectancy. They have very nice retirement packages.

I am not saying they shouldn't get more in a new deal just becuase revenue is so high, but I also don't think they have a leg to stand on in trying to make demands as an employee that is already paid more than the the people who are watching. Bottom line is that Both sides have to give some, but the last offer made public was a significant BOOST over the last deal to the players, and sometiems you have to take it one step at a time. The owners are not giving up those finances. They wouldn't in the past and they wont now. You can hold out if you want, but when push comes to shove is Peyton Manning going to eat a year off of missing 20 million + dollars? They are paid a lot to play, and if they want to get paid they HAVE to play, so in the end I think the players are just being bitter and will end up giving in anyways. Afterall, the owners can afford a season off - some players can't.

[KYPack]

I am sick of the players continuing to think they are "owed" something. They have some of the best lifetime medical coverage in the world.

Who in the hell told you this shit?

Ex-NFL players have the one of the worst health packages that you can get. A friend of mine is an ex-NFL player. He can barely walk. His retirement from his police department paid for his medical coverage and subsequent operation or he'd be in a wheelchair.

Don't bullshit about this unless you know what in the hell you are talkin about.

Not to flame, but Christ man.

[ThunderDan]

I am sick of the players continuing to think they are "owed" something. They have some of the best lifetime medical coverage in the world.

Who in the hell told you this shit?

Ex-NFL players have the one of the worst health packages that you can get. A friend of mine is an ex-NFL player. He can barely walk. His retirement from his police department paid for his medical coverage and subsequent operation or he'd be in a wheelchair.

Don't bullshit about this unless you know what in the hell you are talkin about.

Not to flame, but Christ man.

Rich Gannon on NFLradio said ex-players get 5 years (or some close amount, 3 or 7) of paid medical insurance. After that the players are given the option to continue coverage using the COBRA provision and paying all premiums out of pocket.

[ThunderDan]

I am sick of the players continuing to think they are "owed" something. They have some of the best lifetime medical coverage in the world.

Who in the hell told you this shit?

Ex-NFL players have the one of the worst health packages that you can get. A friend of mine is an ex-NFL player. He can barely walk. His retirement from his police department paid for his medical coverage and subsequent operation or he'd be in a wheelchair.

Don't bullshit about this unless you know what in the hell you are talkin about.

Not to flame, but Christ man.

He should really talk to Mike Webster.

[ThunderDan]

He should really talk to Mike Webster.

Too bad he's dead!

[MJZiggy]

Rich Gannon on NFLradio said ex-players get 5 years (or some close amount, 3 or 7) of paid medical insurance. After that the players are given the option to continue coverage using the COBRA provision and paying all premiums out of pocket.

Five or even seven years of coverage after an NFL career is nothing. A lot of the problems that they have with early onset dementia and other problems don't show up for several years and can last a lifetime? Think about it. NFL players are uninsurable. Any problem they come up with is a preexisting condition. These guys are voluntarily put in harm's way--not to the extent of the military, but if you're injured in the military, you have free VA coverage. Take a look at some of the old timer football players who can hardly move any more but can't afford medical care because the NFL ditched them and left them to fend for themselves. That's not right and the NFLPA needs to give their predecessors the respect they deserve.

[ThunderDan]

Five or even seven years of coverage after an NFL career is nothing. A lot of the problems that they have with early onset dementia and other problems don't show up for several years and can last a lifetime? Think about it. NFL players are uninsurable. Any problem they come up with is a preexisting condition. These guys are voluntarily put in harm's way--not to the extent of the military, but if you're injured in the military, you have free VA coverage. Take a look at some of the old timer football players who can hardly move any more but can't afford medical care because the NFL ditched them and left them to fend for themselves. That's not right and the NFLPA needs to give their predecessors the respect they deserve.

I 100% agree with you. I have had many friends play in the NFL. I have told about my friendship with Elroy Hirsh several times in this site. He could recount every play of every game he ever played. He couldn't remember anything that had happened in the last week.

[swede]

I 100% agree with you. I have had many friends play in the NFL. I have told about my friendship with Elroy Hirsh several times in this site. He could recount every play of every game he ever played. He couldn't remember anything that had happened in the last week.

If that's true, it must have been tempting to borrow money from ol' Crazy Legs.

[gbgary]

If that's true, it must have been tempting to borrow money from ol' Crazy Legs.

hehe

[woodbuck27]

I've mused this before, but how exactly do professional football players work up the mindset of being oppressed and exploited?

Certainly the constant exposure to pain and injury and the physical issues that compromise long-term health may stoke feelings of being treated as an expendable commodity, but no amount of money can make the health issues go away. I have a feeling that the players are looking for something other than simple monetary gain. It seems as if they have made this personal when it should be about business. I don't know that they are going to ever find what they are looking for.

Even their retired brethren don't get them anymore.

Yes and that's a sad situation.

[Patler]

The pre-existing conditions problem was dealt with in the last CBA.
From the owners:


"We offered so that any current player when he retired would get five years of post-career medical that is paid by the clubs. We offered after that to allow players to continue to participate in the medical plan by paying the premiums. If they bought the insurance, they could participate. One of the benefits that was created in the last agreement, which we would be continuing, was a health savings account where players, over the course of their career, can build up hundreds of thousands of dollars, in a benefit fund, sort of like a 401k, but for medical expenses which they could then use to pay the premium to stay in the medical plan so there would be no issue of preexisting conditions. There would be no issue of trying to buy insurance as an individual or having to pay the higher rates when you are outside the group. You'd have the same quality of care and the same network all over the country."

[Pugger]

I thought the NFLPA decertified... :wink:

[Tarlam!]

OK, I still don't get it. I've played really physical sports and had my head smashed in Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays until I migrated to Germany. So, from age 5 to 25 I played the most violent sports known to humankind. Without body armour!

I suffer from mental disabilities, but, they have only to do with my wife's passing.

As I've said all along, I am the GREATEST TE and LB never to have played.

[KYPack]

OK, I still don't get it. I've played really physical sports and had my head smashed in Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays until I migrated to Germany. So, from age 5 to 25 I played the most violent sports known to humankind. Without body armour!

I suffer from mental disabilities, but, they have only to do with my wife's passing.

As I've said all along, I am the GREATEST TE and LB never to have played.

You are "lucky" for one thing. I attended an ad hoc "reunion" of my old rugby teammates. Out of 12 guys, only a couple of 'em escaped relatively injury free from their years of play. All those years of hitting add up, ya know?

PB1234, I was too harsh in my comment to you last nite. I know your opinion that ex-NFL players have all these fabulous benefits, like lifetime health care, etc, is shared by many people.

It just ain't true. Most of these players just worked for paychecks. The average retired grade school janitor has a much better health package than the average retired NFL player.

[ThunderDan]

The pre-existing conditions problem was dealt with in the last CBA.
From the owners:

The HSAs are self-funding so the players have to defer compensation to build up the HSA account.

[Patler]

The HSAs are self-funding so the players have to defer compensation to build up the HSA account.

Sure they are, but at least the league has started a system for the players to deal with their health care after their playing days are over. Part of this is up to the players, to recognize that for many of them their greatest earning potential will be the years before they are 30 years old. They have to use those years for the benefit of their remaining lives, and part of that is planning for their health care.

I really enjoyed some of the comments from Tony Fisher when he was a Packer. Players teased him about being "cheap". He graduated from ND with a degree in economics, and he said it taught him to use his NFL opportunity as one that could set him up for life. He mentioned that even as a minimum wage player, if he could extend his career for 4 or 5 years he would have had the chance to set himself up to do what he wanted to do for the rest of his life, because he would have financial security that would give him the chance.

More players need to understand that, and more agents and player advisers need to hammer it home to their clients.

[ThunderDan]

Sure they are, but at least the league has started a system for the players to deal with their health care after their playing days are over. Part of this is up to the players, to recognize that for many of them their greatest earning potential will be the years before they are 30 years old. They have to use those years for the benefit of their remaining lives, and part of that is planning for their health care.

I really enjoyed some of the comments from Tony Fisher when he was a Packer. Players teased him about being "cheap". He graduated from ND with a degree in economics, and he said it taught him to use his NFL opportunity as one that could set him up for life. He mentioned that even as a minimum wage player, if he could extend his career for 4 or 5 years he would have had the chance to set himself up to do what he wanted to do for the rest of his life, because he would have financial security that would give him the chance.

More players need to understand that, and more agents and player advisers need to hammer it home to their clients.

Good for Tony Fisher. That is a great example. Unfortunately 78% of all NFL player are bankrupty or in financial trouble within 2 years of retiring from the league. I am not defending anyones behavior but obviously from the numbers funding an HSA is not in the vast majority of NFL players mind.

[Patler]

Good for Tony Fisher. That is a great example. Unfortunately 78% of all NFL player are bankrupty or in financial trouble within 2 years of retiring from the league. I am not defending anyones behavior but obviously from the numbers funding an HSA is not in the vast majority of NFL players mind.

But is that the owners fault? Is it the owners' responsibility to care for the players like children for their entire lives? I thnking making opportunities available should be enough. If the players chose to ignore them, so be it.

Alternatively, the players should accept lower pay in return for lifetime maintenance.

[Tarlam!]

You are "lucky" for one thing. I attended an ad hoc "reunion" of my old rugby teammates. Out of 12 guys, only a couple of 'em escaped relatively injury free from their years of play. All those years of hitting add up, ya know?

Which explains why the American Eagles are so highly rated! Sorry, couldn't resist!

[ThunderDan]

But is that the owners fault? Is it the owners' responsibility to care for the players like children for their entire lives? I thnking making opportunities available should be enough. If the players chose to ignore them, so be it.

Alternatively, the players should accept lower pay in return for lifetime maintenance.

Did I say anywhere in my post that it's the owners fault? I was stating a fact about the culture that NFL football players live in. Should the NFL players take better care financially? Yes!

That aside, the HSA is self-funded.

[Patler]

That aside, the HSA is self-funded.

OK...so what??? My health insurance was self-funded for years and years, as it is for many people.
I'm confused if you are trying to make a point.

Some players and some fans make a big deal about the players after-retirement health issues, and some have argued the player uninsurability, etc. The owners have recognized that and already put in place a program to deal with it. Maybe it isn't perfect, but it is a long way from ignoring the problem, which some have seemed to suggest.

I wonder how this compares to other industries, such as coal mining for example, in which the unemployed workers have significant health problems later in life? Do coal mining companies have any continuing programs for the care of former employees? I really have no idea.

[Kiwon]

But is that the owners fault? Is it the owners' responsibility to care for the players like children for their entire lives? I thnking making opportunities available should be enough. If the players chose to ignore them, so be it.

Alternatively, the players should accept lower pay in return for lifetime maintenance.

In 2011, the answers are 'Yes' and 'Yes.'

And as part of the lifetime maintenance program, every current or former player MUST by contract be FORCED to drive whatever the current "Official car of the NFL' is in order to increase car sales and give the owners more leverage to negotiate the next contract with automotive sponsors.

[Patler]

I wonder what the most popular vehicle is among NFL players who make it into a second contract?

[KYPack]

Which explains why the American Eagles are so highly rated! Sorry, couldn't resist!

These guys (& me) were ex-Rugby Union players. I can understand a bunch of ex-league men coming thru the experience unscathed.

[Tarlam!]

I captained a Union team. The game just isn't as much fun as League. It's even less like a chess match than Aussie Rules. I've played all, captained all and wish I were raised in the US of A where the greatest game of all is played.

And, yes, I played soccer.

[Patler]

I've played all, captained all and wish I were raised in the US of A where the greatest game of all is played.


Ice Hockey?

[Tarlam!]

Ice Hockey?

Well, not formally, no. When I was 9 I visited Austria, where I was born, and borrowed some skates from a 12 year old girl. I had to stuff socks and other stuff into 'em so they'd fit. At that age, learning to skate is, well, a decent afternoon's work. We had a frozen lake a stone throw from my Grandma's house. Boys will be boys and so when a puck hit the ice the boys found all forms of wood to use as sticks.

Some years later, that girl that I borrowed the skates from told me she and her gang watched as I mixed it up with the locals. She said her gang was astounded at how physical I played, even against the "big" kids. Well, no shit Sherlock, I am an Aussie, and we don't frig around!! I would have loved to play formal hockey, but y'know, back in Oz, back in those days? I had no chance.

BTW, she told me about the incident during our honeymoon.

[KYPack]

I captained a Union team. The game just isn't as much fun as League. It's even less like a chess match than Aussie Rules. I've played all, captained all and wish I were raised in the US of A where the greatest game of all is played.

And, yes, I played soccer.

I thought you said you played league. Our old coach was from Hull and always was a huge league proponent.

I am also sticking up for the Eagles (for some reason).

[Tarlam!]

Yeah, I was a League man, Shep, but I played one season of Union.