VOTE - Packer Rats MOCK PACKER PICK

[gbpackfan]

Who should the Packers take with the 32nd pick in the 2011 NFL draft? The players listed in the poll are the BPA after the Packer Rat mock draft was completed.

[gbpackfan]

If I missed someone, sorry. Write in votes will be considered. I will give this poll a couple of days. Its over when a clear cut winner emerges or I decide it's done. We do have a ROUND 2 to get to!

[Bretsky]

an interesting pick for the rats.....the more you read up the more you will see there is undoubtedly a BPA that most have rated in a different tier than the rest.

As much as I like Brooks Reed, he's rated about the 3rd to 4th best OLB in the draft
Sheard could help this team as well but I think he's similar in quality to Reed
Ijalana would be about the 6th or 7th OL coming off the board
Baldwin could be elite some day IMO but he's WR #3 by most analysis I've read; I'm not even sure Hankerson gets drafted in round two and I don't know enough about Titus Young.
Watkins seems like a great fit but he's 26 or 27 already; that downgrades him right there IMO

Or you can kiss your needs off til round two, and draft the #1 rated RB in the 2011 draft and what most still feel like is an elite talent.

[Bretsky]

To me this is almost 1A and 1B. I gotta vote for Ingram. But if Ingram was gone, I'd be all about Brooks Reed

[Bretsky]

maybe we should post a scouting report on each one ? Don't have the ambition right now but maybe later

[gbpackfan]

Not a bad idea Bretsky, but I'm with you, ambition tank is just about on "E" today.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Ingram's the BPA, so that's where my vote went. However, in this spot I could certainly see someone calling Ted with a nice trade offer. If the option to trade down on the poll that's where I'd vote. If Ingram really were there at 32 someone would pay dearly for that pick.

[swede]

I can take some of the blame for Ingram being on this list by not taking him with the Patriots' second pick. In actuality, I think a team wanting Ingram would trade up for him as the first round wound down to picks 20-32.

So, I voted for Ingram in the rare instance that he would actually be there at #32. If he's not there, I really do like Brooks Reed or a trade down. I think our offense will be okay for years to come, but we should continue to build a dominant defense by selecting BDPA.

[Lurker64]

I don't want Ingram, so I'm just going to hold on to my vote and vote for the other leading candidate.

[gbpackfan]

I just can't believe the Packers would take Ingram. Starks and Grant already on board. No chance.

[MJZiggy]

I don't want Ingram, so I'm just going to hold on to my vote and vote for the other leading candidate.

I did want Ingram, but Johnny 'the life-altering idiot' Jolly changed my vote.

[Lurker64]

I did want Ingram, but Johnny 'the life-altering idiot' Jolly changed my vote.

I still think that Liuget is really unsuited to playing 5-tech in our defense (though he'd be a great 3-tech for a 4-3 team, but he just isn't long). If you wanted the top 5-tech available, I'd say Iowa's Ballard but he didn't make it on the poll.

Keep in mind, however, that our average number of defensive linemen on the field last year was about 2.25, and we have Raji and Neal for the 2, and so we just need .25 of a player plus rotation.


I just can't believe the Packers would take Ingram. Starks and Grant already on board. No chance.

Well, if they took Ingram it would mean they would cut Grant before the season. That's not something I'd like to see.

[Bretsky]

Remember TT drafted Justin Harrell when most of us thought our DL was very strong; but IMO he anticipated Williams might leave. IMO about the only positions that are nearly out are QB and TE in round one. If TT feels Ingram is special that pick is very possible IMO

[RashanGary]

Ryan Grant turns 29 next season. Starks is very unproven, although he has shown promise. I envision Starks as being more of a 3rd down specialist. He's a bit of a RB/WR hybrid. Ingram is a complete RB. He can run anywhere, any style and he catches the ball. I'd compare him to DeAngelo Williams. So Grant phases out as he enters his 30's and Ingram phases in as he approaches 25. I'm fine with that.

[gbpackfan]

I still think that Liuget is really unsuited to playing 5-tech in our defense (though he'd be a great 3-tech for a 4-3 team, but he just isn't long). If you wanted the top 5-tech available, I'd say Iowa's Ballard but he didn't make it on the poll.

Keep in mind, however, that our average number of defensive linemen on the field last year was about 2.25, and we have Raji and Neal for the 2, and so we just need .25 of a player plus rotation.



Well, if they took Ingram it would mean they would cut Grant before the season. That's not something I'd like to see.


If enough guys give Ballard a write in vote, he will win. But the poll only allows me 10 options.

[packrulz]

No way Ingram slips this far in the real draft, Watkins gets my vote, we can get 4-6 years out of him and protecting ARod is critical. He'll be more consistent than Colledge ever was.
The top-ranked guard according to NFLDraftScout.com, Baylor's Danny Watkins, played left tackle in the Bears' spread offense. His dominant performance at the Senior Bowl and showing in private workouts make him a first-round target with potential to play any position on the line.

[Smeefers]

No way Ingram slips this far in the real draft, Watkins gets my vote, we can get 4-6 years out of him and protecting ARod is critical. He'll be more consistent than Colledge ever was.
The top-ranked guard according to NFLDraftScout.com, Baylor's Danny Watkins, played left tackle in the Bears' spread offense. His dominant performance at the Senior Bowl and showing in private workouts make him a first-round target with potential to play any position on the line.

Yeah, there is no way that he falls to us in the real draft, but he did in this mock one. There's absolutely no way I pass on Ingram. No way. In fact, if he's still on the board, TT will be crying like a blubbering child as he makes the call, not having gotten a steal like this since Aaron Rodgers.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I wish Brooks Reed wasn't on the poll as well. Every year we do this, it seems the one player most want fails to get picked and inexplicably falls to the Packers selection. No way Brooks lasts until 32. Keep smoking on your pipe dreams fellow rats.

[Bretsky]

Most mock drafts I see don't have Reed getting picked earlier than GB and some have him in round 2

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Most I've seen have Brooks being picked before Ayers (UCLA OLB). His combine and pro day numbers alone will elevate him in to the first round. Call it the "Clay Matthews" effect. If I'm wrong I'll eat crow, but I just don't see it.

[Lurker64]

So assuming we don't have a shot at Reed or Ingram, who would everybody pick in that case?

For me, it's between Ijalana and Sheard.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

So assuming we don't have a shot at Reed or Ingram, who would everybody pick in that case?

For me, it's between Ijalana and Sheard.

I like both. Add Watkins to that list for me as well. Who cares if he's 26? Offensive guards have one of the highest longevities of any position.

[3irty1]

Major reach for Brooks Reed. Someone remember and told-ya-so me if I'm wrong, but I bet Brooks Reed can be had with pick #64.

[3irty1]

Remember TT drafted Justin Harrell when most of us thought our DL was very strong; but IMO he anticipated Williams might leave. IMO about the only positions that are nearly out are QB and TE in round one. If TT feels Ingram is special that pick is very possible IMO

I wouldn't even count those two out. If TT thinks Rudolph is the BPA you bet he'll be taken. Elite TE's are a cheap way to keep your offense in the top tier. NE fans know better than anyone what a pair of young TE's can do for your offense. With Flynn in jeopardy of leaving to free agency, a capable backup QB is a pretty big concern. This position is at a premium now with the concussion rules. I would be more surprised to see the pick be a reach like Brooks Reed than a pick with value, even at QB, like Christian Ponder--that's just how Ted rolls.

[3irty1]

I understand the votes for Mark Ingram, he's a great value here. Where are all the votes for Ben Ijalana??? Safest pick on the board IMO. Could play nearly anywhere on the line and should give a major boost to this unit which will likely lose two or three solid players.

I voted for Baldwin. The offense underperformed last year during the regular season last year and now there is a chance they lose a productive receiver in James Jones. TT has chosen a lot of players that are vaguely in the Baldwin mold but none of them are quite right. Baldwin is what Jordy was supposed to be IMO. Give McCarthy another big weapon and the offensive droughts from last year are a thing of the past IMO. It takes a special player to cover a guy like Baldwin... or Finley... or Jennings. Baldwin is a decent value at #32 but IMO he represents such a mismatch schematically that when paired with Finely, the offense can do whatever it wants.

[Guiness]

Ingram's the BPA, so that's where my vote went. However, in this spot I could certainly see someone calling Ted with a nice trade offer. If the option to trade down on the poll that's where I'd vote. If Ingram really were there at 32 someone would pay dearly for that pick.

Agreed that if that's the way the board fell, it could go that way.

I voted Ingram, but I don't see it happening if this is the way the board fell. If the board looked like this, I could see TT calling Carolina and asking them if they want Ingram, and getting them to swap picks and pick up an extra late rounder.

At that point...the next BPA is Liuget. You can never have enough big men. He develops for a year while you play Green.

[Guiness]

I understand the votes for Mark Ingram, he's a great value here. Where are all the votes for Ben Ijalana??? Safest pick on the board IMO. Could play nearly anywhere on the line and should give a major boost to this unit which will likely lose two or three solid players.

I voted for Baldwin. The offense underperformed last year during the regular season last year and now there is a chance they lose a productive receiver in James Jones. TT has chosen a lot of players that are vaguely in the Baldwin mold but none of them are quite right. Baldwin is what Jordy was supposed to be IMO. Give McCarthy another big weapon and the offensive droughts from last year are a thing of the past IMO. It takes a special player to cover a guy like Baldwin... or Finley... or Jennings. Baldwin is a decent value at #32 but IMO he represents such a mismatch schematically that when paired with Finely, the offense can do whatever it wants.

Baldwin? Don't know much about him.

[Lurker64]

I understand the votes for Mark Ingram, he's a great value here. Where are all the votes for Ben Ijalana??? Safest pick on the board IMO. Could play nearly anywhere on the line and should give a major boost to this unit which will likely lose two or three solid players.

I would have voted for Ijalana, but I voted for Reed because I didn't want Ingram to be the pick. I'd rather have Ijalana than Reed though.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Agreed that if that's the way the board fell, it could go that way.

I voted Ingram, but I don't see it happening if this is the way the board fell. If the board looked like this, I could see TT calling Carolina and asking them if they want Ingram, and getting them to swap picks and pick up an extra late rounder.

At that point...the next BPA is Liuget. You can never have enough big men. He develops for a year while you play Green.

I'm not so sure Liuget fits our scheme. He's more of a 4-3 DT.

[Lurker64]

I'm not so sure Liuget fits our scheme. He's more of a 4-3 DT.

Yeah, great 3-tech prospect. I'd take him over Fairley if I was a 4-3 team. But in the 3-4? We don't need another nose, and I really doubt that he has the length to play the 5-technique position effectively. You have to like Neal a lot more than Liuget in this scheme, and we got Neal in the second.

I don't think the 5-tech hole is really even that big a need, we really only need depth and developmental guys (I really like Oregon's Brandon Bair on day 3), assuming we can finally get some pass rush from the other OLB. We play 2.25 DL/play, and if Raji and Neal can be counted on then you don't want to spend your first on .25 of a player (or a guy who relegates last year's promising #2 to .25 of a player). Dom wants extra defensive backs whenever he can get away with it, and it's always going to come at the expense of your big horses.

[3irty1]

Baldwin? Don't know much about him.

6'5" 230 lb WR
4.5 seconds in the 40 yard dash

Plays at about the same speed as James Jones but is significantly bigger. Actually a lot of his game reminds me of Jones. Both have big natural soft hands that you look for in a glue-handed receiver, both have a surprising amount of wiggle when asked to make guys miss and fight for yards after the catch. Jones does a little better job of exploding out of his cuts to create separation IMO but Baldwin has rare leaping ability (41" vertical) and shows the ability to highpoint the ball and take it away from defenders--a skill that can make you a star in the NFL. Baldwin is also a punishing blocker for a WR. My biggest concern about him is that he seems to jump for balls that don't need to be jumped for which results in taking a few in the stomach, particularly over the middle, with no chance of creating after the catch. This is probably a habit that came from the terrible QB play he's had to endure with which he's routinely found himself left out to dry over the middle. With an NFL QB that can hit him in stride he'll have a chance to grow as a route runner and drop his bad habits.

[Guiness]

PFT's mock is interesting.

It has the Pack taking Justin Houston at #32, passing on Ingram - so no first round RB's.

They also have quarterbacks going #1, 4, 10, and 15 (Panthers, Bengals, Skins and Dolphins). I was going to call them morons for that, but it's possibly accurate and GM's do tend to panic when they haven't got a signal caller. A couple of extra QB's being taken in the first round will push other quality players down.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/28/2011-mock-draft-take-three/

[Lurker64]

For those of you who voted for Ingram, he's currently scheduled to get an exhaustive evaluation on his knee to determine whether or not there is structural damage or degenerative arthritis. Assuming that Ingram's knee is not completely healthy, how much of a mess would it have to be before you'd change your vote? Note that the results from this evaluation will be available to all NFL teams before the draft, so you can assume that you have access to it and respond conditionally.

For Ingram supporters, supposing that Ingram's knee is a total mess... would you advocate taking a different RB instead, say LeShoure or Williams?

[RashanGary]

Lurker, of course, if his knee is shot and his career guaranteed to be short, sure, we'd choose someone else. Just going off the tape though, the guy is a damn good overall RB and a great redzone back. He'd be welcomed here with open arms. Grant is 18 mos away from 30 years old. Very few RB's with STarks build can handle the load in the NFL. Ingram would be a great piece for us.

[Guiness]

For those of you who voted for Ingram, he's currently scheduled to get an exhaustive evaluation on his knee to determine whether or not there is structural damage or degenerative arthritis. Assuming that Ingram's knee is not completely healthy, how much of a mess would it have to be before you'd change your vote? Note that the results from this evaluation will be available to all NFL teams before the draft, so you can assume that you have access to it and respond conditionally.

For Ingram supporters, supposing that Ingram's knee is a total mess... would you advocate taking a different RB instead, say LeShoure or Williams?

Not at all.

The Ingram choice was based on BPA alone - not need/desire for an RB at all. Actually, on the list of team needs, I'd rank RB as the third lowest - behind ILB and TE, so no chance we we reach a little for one of the other RB's.

If Liuget is as bad a fit as some are saying, I could see him being crossed off the board just because he'd be useless to us I don't know who would be next in line. Those two were the players who seemed to have dropped below their value.

Maybe Watkins is next? *shrug*

[RashanGary]

I started thinking about backs who have had great red zone production over the years. Immediately I thought about Ladanian Tomlinson (similar size and no nonsense running style). But LT is faster, so that's not a perfect comparison. Then I thought of Priest Holmes. Exact same size. Exact same running style. I don't know if Ingram just had a bad day at the track, but I think Priest Holmes is a great comparison back for Mark Ingram.

[Lurker64]

To be honest, I think Mikel LeShoure would be a more effective back on this team than Mark Ingram. More of a one-cut guy.

[Freak Out]

I'll change my pick now to one of the OTs available....I think there will be a good RB available in the 2nd or the 3rd. Is Mikel the guy from VT?

[swede]

I'll change my pick now to one of the OTs available....I think there will be a good RB available in the 2nd or the 3rd. Is Mikel the guy from VT?

Watching the combine, the guy I saw with the surest, quickest cuts was Dion Lewis from Pittsburgh. They say he's 6th or 7th round, but he ran 4.41 with a 1.51 10 yd split at his pro day. He may be 5' 7", but he weighs 194 lbs. He isn't small--he's short and talented. I'll be shocked if he is still there after the fourth round is over.

[Lurker64]

I'll change my pick now to one of the OTs available....I think there will be a good RB available in the 2nd or the 3rd. Is Mikel the guy from VT?

LeShoure is from Illinois, Ryan Williams is the guy from VT.

[Bretsky]

my guess is if the injury is severe most of us would flip to Reed

I picked Ingram because he is in the class of players above the ones left in the poll. I'd be fine with SeShoure but I'd pass on RB in round one if Ingram was gone

[TennesseePackerBacker]

To be honest, I think Mikel LeShoure would be a more effective back on this team than Mark Ingram. More of a one-cut guy.

Agree with you completely here. I also didn't know Ingram still had a questionable knee; I assumed he checked out.

Also, not a big fan of Ryan Williams. I saw a lot of VTech games due to being in the region. I just don't think Williams makes you miss enough. I also have to question his speed on the edges. He might have trouble breaking away in the NFL.

I'm assuming you want one of the guards with this pick Lurker. Which one? And, who in your eyes is the BPA in our mock draft?

[Smidgeon]

Personally, I'm a fan of the Baldwin direction. Driver isn't getting younger, already started showing decline, and Jones could be gone. That would basically leave Jennings, Finley, and Nelson as 1-2-3 with Driver being 4 and Swain being 5 (and yes, I hope the offense goes through Jennings first instead of Finley). The Baldwin selection would set of the offense to be potent for 5-7 years. Plus, there's enough leaders in the locker room to keep him in line. After all, Finley got in line after his first year. He threw his QB under the bus that first year and nary a complain since. I don't doubt for a second this team could put Baldwin on the right line and keep him there.

[Bretsky]

Titus Young would also bring some excitement. Speed....playmaker. Some have compared him to Desean Jackson w/o the bad attitude. He'd be our kickoff return guy as well as an explosing deep threat IMO

[Bretsky]

HERE ARE SOME SUMMARIES

03/30/2011 - Underrated: Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh: Sheard isn't a traditional pass-rushing end -- a sudden athlete capable of beating NFL-caliber offensive tackles with speed alone. Sheard has a surprisingly strong bull rush at 6-3, 264 pounds, and has shown consistent improvement throughout his career. Rather than fall apart while facing double teams after "star" Greg Romeus went down because of an injury, Sheard raised his game, earning the Big East Defensive Player of the Year honors with 52 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, nine sacks and four forced fumbles. Sheard, likely to be taken between picks 20-45, will be more productive as a rookie than at least a few of the more highly touted defensive ends of this draft. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

•Full Jabaal Sheard News Wire
Overview
Sheard became an impact player for the Panthers, living up to his billing as a top defensive end prospect coming out of Florida before the 2007 season. He and fellow all-conference performers Greg Romeus and Brandon Lindsey formed one of the best tandems in the country the past three seasons.

Sheard earned playing time in nine games as a true freshman, making three tackles and breaking up two passes with his active hands on the line of scrimmage. Starting every game in his sophomore year allowed him to steadily improve while racking up 45 tackles, 10.5 for loss, 5.5 sacks, seven pass breakups and 11 quarterback hurries. Sheard continued to progress as a run-stopper and pass-rush force in 2009, as he was credited with 42 stops, including 10.5 behind the line, five sacks, three pass breakups and 12 hurries.

With Romeus out most of 2010 with injuries, Sheard earned the hype he deserved -- Big East coaches unanimously voted him first-team all-conference after he made 52 tackles, 14.5 for loss and nine sacks. He has the potential to be a starter on a four-man line, or potentially as a 3-4 linebacker, because of his strength against the run and pass-rush ability. If teams believe he has put his summer 2010 arrest for assault behind him, he could be a top-50 pick.

Analysis
Pass rush: Hustling power rusher who can be a tough task for right tackles. Nice bull rush, gets under the blocker's pads and pushes them into the backfield. Gives great effort to get to the quarterback, even when he's all but tackled by blockers. Sniffs out misdirection and quick screens to his side; not exceptionally agile in space, but he reads cut blocks well and contains and drops to affect passing lanes. Very active moving and jumping to affect passing lanes if unable to reach the quarterback. Keeps his feet moving after initial contact, but is inconsistent disengaging from the blocks of better linemen. Needs to be more violent with his hands and take advantage of his speed against slower tackles. Only adequate flexibility and change-of-direction agility to turn the corner or be effective on twists. Must learn counter pass-rush moves to get past tackles at the next level; loses his balance and backfield awareness when attempting the occasional spin move.

Run defense: Not the largest strong-side end but maintains leverage to hold the line of scrimmage. Crashes down hard on inside and short-yardage runs, lowers his pads to get leverage against approaching linemen. Tight ends have a difficult time controlling him on the edge, uses strong hands or quickness to contain on his side of the line. Works hard to stay on his feet, get off blocks to stay active and keep containment on plays run towards him.

Explosion: Is not elite in this category, but has adequate speed off the snap for his size when his ears are pinned back on the pass rush. Good pop into his man's numbers on bull rushes. Uses violent hands to knock aside blockers on run plays.

Strength: Plays stronger than his height/weight numbers indicate. Knows how to keep his pads low to get leverage on the edge against the run and bull rush his man into the pocket. Stacks his man and can disengage using violent and strong hands to move inside or outside.

Tackling: Solid, if not explosive, tackler on the edge who makes it difficult for teams to run inside or outside of him. Closes well when coming straight toward the ball, but his stiff hips do not always allow him to break down in space or change direction quickly. Good hustle-and-chase type, makes plays down the line and downfield.

Intangibles: Team leader and captain because of his work ethic and intensity. Worked through a knee injury suffered in the summer of 2009 to play every game last season. Had minor elbow surgery in December 2010 that caused him to miss the team's bowl game. Helped an elderly woman escape from her burning home and received a bravery award. Good student, majoring in forensic sciences. Arrested in July 2010 for involvement in fight; continued to punch the man after police called for him to stop and threw the man through the glass door of a business. Pled guilty to disorderly conduct (originally charged with felony aggravated assault and resisting arrest), was order to apologize, pay medical bills. He was suspended for two weeks and faced internal discipline.

2010 Season
An AFCA All-American, Sheard has compiled 52 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, nine sacks, four forced fumbles and a fumble recovery. He leads the Big East in forced fumbles (tied, 0.33 forced fumbles/game), ranks second in tackles for loss (tied, 1.21 TFLs/game) and is third in sacks (tied, 0.75 sacks/game). Nationally, he ranks fifth in forced fumbles and 21st in sacks.

[Bretsky]

04/04/2011 - Top linebacker prospects: 4. Brooks Reed, Arizona, 6-3, 263, 2 Reed worked out with the defensive linemen at the combine, but he projects best to outside linebacker in a 3-4. He only enhanced that probability with a 4.65 40, which was faster than 18 of the 24 linebackers tested in Indy. That included a position-best 1.54-second 10-yard split among defensive linemen, showing his explosive first step. Reed isn't quite as athletic as Packers outside linebacker Clay Matthews, but he does change directions with fluidity and impressed in positional drills at the combine and the Senior Bowl. The three-year starter closed his career with 114 tackles and 17 sacks and was first-team All-Pac-10 in 2010. - Jeff Reynolds, The Sports Xchange

•Full Brooks Reed News Wire
Overview
Reed has been an active part of one of the best pass rushes in college football for the past two years, but is a bit of an end/outside linebacker 'tweener as an NFL prospect. He's slightly undersized for a 4-3 end and lacks the fluid hips for assignments like open-field tackles and man coverage against tight ends as a 3-4 linebacker. However, the NFL will get effort, hustle and quickness off the snap at either position.

Analysis
Positives: Three-year starter at end is a combination of effort, hustle and quickness off the snap. Could get a look as a 4-3 end, but is also well suited for outside linebacker in a 3-4. Stays low, runs well and is relentless in pursuit. Powerful bull rush and a quality speed rush. Consistent and strong tackler, can deliver the big hit. Contributes on special teams. Smart in the classroom, fiery leader on the field - top intangibles.

Negatives: Appears a bit stiff in the hips and doesn't change directions well. Has bull and speed rushes and an OK spin move as pass rush techniques - that's it. Spin move is the double-move. Doesn't disengage from blocks effectively. Did not fare well against better competition. While effort is good, isn't very effective as a lineman against the run, and can be overpowered and washed. Doesn't have a lot of experience in pass coverage.

--Brad Noel

2010 Season
Reed, a four-year letterman who started 34 games for the Wildcats, finished with a career-best 47 tackles in 2010 including 6.5 sacks among 10 tackles for loss, plus two pass breakups and a forced fumble. He had 114 career tackles at UA and 17 career sacks. He earned first-team All-Pac-10 honors this past year

[Bretsky]

04/03/2011 - If I've learned one thing in my years as an NFL Draft analyst it is that when several of us come to a consensus that Player A will be drafted by Team A at any spot other than the No. 1 overall, we're all usually wrong. This may prove to be the case again this year. Many draft prognosticators, including Chad Reuter and I , have pegged the Miami Dolphins to select Alabama running back Mark Ingram with the No. 15 overall pick. This selection, in fact, may be the most agreed upon pick in the entire first round, including No. 1 overall, at this point. Which is all the more reason why I decided to investigate it further. Though sources throughout the league certainly recognize the Dolphins' need at running back, they'd be surprised if Miami took Ingram. One source simply didn't feel that Ingram was worth a first round pick - something I argued vehemently. Others thought Ingram was a "legitimate first round player," but cited the decreasing value of running backs in today's NFL as reason enough why Ingram would not only slip past Miami, but perhaps out of the first round, entirely. "I agree with you. He's a helluva player, but history has proven that you can find running backs later in the draft," one high-ranking team source said. "Are you really getting the bang for your buck by taking a back in the first round?" Ingram is NFLDraftScout.com's top-rated running back and No. 12 player, overall. We view him as a first round value. Apparently, several teams, on the other hand, do not. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

•Full *Mark Ingram News Wire
Overview
The 2009 Heisman Trophy winner and Alabama's career leader in rushing touchdowns, Ingram enters the 2011 draft as the most likely first-round pick in a large, talented group headlined by underclassmen.

Ingram averaged 5.1 yards per carry as a true freshman for the Tide, rushing for 728 yards and a team-best 12 rushing touchdowns. Ingram's sophomore season was his best, breaking the school record for rushing yards with 1,658 to help Alabama win the national championship and become the first player in Alabama's storied history to win the Heisman Trophy.

He didn't pad his stats against inferior competition. Ingram was at his best against the best, rushing for an average of 156.8 yards per game against the six top 25 teams Alabama faced in 2009.

A knee injury requiring arthroscopic surgery in the days before the Tide opened the 2010 season kept Ingram sidelined for the first two games of the year. He came back strong, scoring two touchdowns in each of his first three games back. Alabama wasn't shy about passing the ball down the stretch, and Ingram's numbers dipped. His only two 100-yard rushing games of the year came in September.

He finished his junior season with 816 rushing yards, but scouts won't lose sight of the fact that he gained an average of 5.6 yards per attempt. Ingram was greatly aided by a talented and physical offensive line. He does not possess off-the-charts athletic ability or talent equal to many recent first-round draft picks at the position. But the commonality he shares with the NFL's most productive backs are natural vision, balance, burst and ball security, which will make up for his average speed.

Analysis
Inside running: Possesses the deal frame for running between the tackles. Quickly presses the line of scrimmage and has the burst to get to and through the hole. Keeps his shoulders squared to the line and runs hard with a low center of gravity. His feet churn through contact and allow him to play bigger on short-yardage runs. Good awareness of the first-down marker. Has the leg drive and forward lean to finish runs falling forward. Instinctive runner with a good feel for when to bounce off blocks and set up cutback lanes. Can plant and drive to capitalize on a crease. Good vision and acceleration to get into the secondary. Does not possess elite stopwatch speed, but has enough to break free for long gains. Excellent ball security -- two fumbles in his career.

Outside running: Possesses good but not great speed to get to the edge. Best attributes as an outside runner are his vision to identify opening holes and the burst and power he shows coming out of decisive cuts. Doesn't waste time running laterally unless he sees he has the corner. Can make defenders miss in tight quarters with good lateral agility, but isn't a dancer.

Breaking tackles: Surprisingly powerful runner with a low center of gravity. He keeps his legs churning through contact. Won't wow with his ability to run over defenders, but is tough to bring down. Defenders have a hard time lining up a clean shot on him despite his broad frame and he shows good shiftiness when cornered. Capable of absorbing or delivering a big hit and maintaining his balance. Defenders have to wrap him up.

Blocking: Cognizant pass blocker. Is willing to take on the hard-charging defender and shows good effort and physicality to gain a stalemate. When trying to cut defenders he often gets too low, allowing defenders to easily leap over him.

Receiving: Reliable receiver out of the backfield with soft hands and good flexibility to extend and pluck the ball. Secures the ball quickly. Good vision for the screen game and he has the patience to set up blocks, rather than run past them.

Intangibles: Son of former New York Giants wide receiver Mark Ingram, who is serving time for fraud and money laundering. The first running back to win the Heisman and the national championship in the same season since Tony Dorsett (Pittsburgh, 1976). Won the Derrick Thomas Community Award following 2010 spring practice.

--Rob Rang

[Bretsky]

04/04/2011 - Top offensive linemen: 3. Benjamin Ijalana, Villanova, 6-4, 320, 2-3, The only NFL prospects in the stadium on most Saturdays at Villanova games were former pros turned talent evaluators eager to gauge Ijalana's football competence against elite talent. They're still waiting. Ironically, Ijalana's draft stock has been dragged down by durability questions. He started all 53 games of his career at Villanova on an offense that played at a fast pace and put up plenty of points. But playing offensive tackle at the FCS level raised questions with scouts eager to see him work at the Senior Bowl and combine position drills in direct competition with FBS talent. Ijalana was unable to take the field at either event because of a sports hernia, and his final draft grade might be incomplete for many teams. He's a better athlete than 2010 second-round pick Vladimir Ducasse (Jets, via Massachusetts) but he'll have to grow to be considered a pro tackle prospect. - Jeff Reynolds, The Sports Xchange

•Full Benjamin Ijalana News Wire
Overview
Ijalana's best opportunity to prove that he could handle NFL speed rushers vanished when he wasn't able to participate in the Senior Bowl due to a sports hernia. His size and experience could keep him on the outside. Without being tested against FBS speed, many scouts see his ultimate pro position inside at guard, where his toughness, athleticism and strong hands (his background as a high school wrestler is apparent) should aid him in making a smooth transition.

Analysis
Positives: Exceptional pass blocker at the FCS level, dominates defensive ends on most plays with great length with athleticism. Excellent foot quickness to mirror his man. Works to sustain even if his man backs off a bit. Has the bulk, length and footwork to be a very effective run blocker. Excellent agility to get out of his stance, capable of moving behind the line and into the hole to negate linebackers. Excellent durability; started all 52 career games.

Negatives: Inconsistent kick-slide, will cross his legs and be beaten outside when he loses focus off the snap. Must improve his awareness of end-tackle stunts and inside blitzers, as his quarterback takes too many direct hits. Carries a bit of extra weight in his mid-section. Comes off the ball a hit high in short-yardage situations. Tough time adjusting to quick players in space, even if they are coming straight on. Occasionally loses the snap count or is distracted in pass protection. Stands around too much as the play continues.

Career Notes
Ijalana is one of the most dominant offensive linemen to have recently come out of CAA Football. A starter in all 53 games of his Villanova career, Ijalana helped the Wildcats to a 40-13 record and three consecutive playoff appearances. The postseason success included winning the 2009 national championship and advancing to the semifinals in 2010. Ijalana is a three-time first team All-CAA selection and a two-time consensus first team All-American … was the only player in FCS football to be on the Outland Trophy Watch List.

2010 Season
Was the only player from FCS football named to the watch list for the Outland Trophy, which is presented each year to the top lineman in the country. Villanova has once again had a dominant offensive line this season, with Ijalana being the focal point of one of the team's greatest strengths. The Wildcats average more than 380 yards of offense per game, including 199.5 rushing yards per contest and 181.3 passing yards per game. In addition, the offensive line has given up just 24 sacks in 13 games on the year. Steady play from the offensive line has been a big factor in Villanova becoming one of the top offensive teams in the CAA this year. The Wildcats lead the conference in both rushing yards per game and scoring offense (30.8 points per game) and rank third in the conference in total offense

[Bretsky]

04/04/2011 - Top offensive linemen: 2. Danny Watkins, Baylor, 6-3, 310, 1-2, Watkins, 26, spent four years as a firefighter in his native British Columbia and then enrolled at Butte College in California in the fire sciences program. He first played organized football at Butte and two years later landed at Baylor, replacing 2009 No. 2 overall pick Jason Smith. He's as good on ice skates as he is in ??-inch cleats thanks to his background in hockey. Before he considered the NFL an option, Watkins realized an NHL career wasn't feasible. "When you're 270 pounds in 12th grade," he said, "there weren't many players in the NHL that size." Watkins has impressed since working out at guard at the Senior Bowl, and NFLDraftScout.com has projected him at the bottom of the first round for months. His age and limited football experience will be a hindrance, and he doesn't have ideal size. But his technique is exceptional for a raw prospect with agility and strength. - Jeff Reynolds, The Sports Xchange

•Full Danny Watkins News Wire
Overview
Four years ago, Watkins was the most unlikely candidate in this draft class to be a potential first-round pick.

While most of the other top 50 prospects were being recruited by national powerhouses - or only juniors in high school - Watkins was a 22-year-old part-time firefighter north or the U.S. border. A hockey and rugby player growing up in Kelowna, British Columbia, he admits the only football he saw was CFL highlights because they were on after Vancouver Canucks games.

"I was a true, Canadian hockey kid," said Watkins, who realized the NHL wasn't in his future at 270 pounds - in the 12th grade.

His attention turned to becoming a full-time firefighter, and Watkins moved to Oroville, Calif. to take part in the fire academy at Butte College.

"I always grew up playing competitive sports and there wasn't a hockey rink within 600 feet at Butte, so I figured I'd give (football) a try," he said at the combine.

It didn't take long for those competitive juices to take over. Watkins played in all 22 games over two seasons, and was named a JC All-American during Butte's run to the 2008 California Community College Athletic Association championship as a sophomore.

Watkins overwhelmed the lower level of competition, but was still very raw technique-wise. He bonded with J.D. Walton, a second-round pick last year, during a series of recruiting trips and decided to head to Waco. He was able to step right in at left tackle with Jason Smith selected No. 2 overall by the Rams in 2009.

Watkins went on to start all 25 games during his two seasons at Baylor, and led the team with 134 knockdowns in 2010. He was drafted with the fourth overall pick by his hometown B.C. Lions of the CFL last May, but has his sights set on the NFL. And no teams have questioned his desire for the game.

"To get to this point, I think you have to love it, you have to make it a passion," Watkins said.

And it turns out he's able to put that hockey background to good use, after all.

"The way you put your feet in the run game is similar to skating," Watkins said. "Obviously, moving backwards in hockey was very natural to me and in pass protection. A lot has been able to carry over to my benefit."

However, Watkins does enter the NFL at 26 years old and lacks the ideal size to play offensive tackle in the NFL. His likely spot is inside at guard, where he can put his strength, agility and surprisingly-solid technique to good use.

"Well I don't have arthritis so … I feel pretty good," Watkins said with a laugh at the combine. "I was one of the first guys out of my physical. I'm a little more mature than the other guys. I don't think it's a negative."

Analysis
Pass blocking: Excellent college left tackle despite his lack of experience. Sits into a good posture after his kick-slide. Comes out to meet the defensive end, mirrors opponents' lateral movement. Anchors against large defensive ends by extending his arms and widening his base. Escorts speed rushers around the pocket with arm-bar and nice footwork. Excellent cut-blocker, gets low quickly and takes man out totally out of the play. Still learning to protect inside lane. Must consistently keep feet moving to sustain after initial contact and prevent secondary rush.

Run blocking: Adept positional blocker, has good strength and attitude to seal his man inside or outside. Plays with a wide base, uses his strong legs to get forward movement. Aggressive and sticks to defenders once latched on; extends arms to push defender back or even put him on the ground. Gets under his man's pads when drive-blocking, keeps his hips low and feet moving. Still learning how to explode from three-point stance. Occasionally lunges to reach his man or is shed by violent hand play.

Pulling/trapping: Usually not asked to pull or trap from the left tackle position, but his agility gives him a real chance to succeed moving behind the line and into space. Can hit a target when going to the second level and NFL linebackers will meet him to attack the ball inside. Will take to coaching to find inside target and open holes.

Initial Quickness: Lacks the elite initial quickness of typical early-round picks, but combines fair athleticism with very good technique so it does not affect his ability in pass protection. NFL defenders might take advantage with their exceptional outside speed. Gets out of a drive-blocking stance quickly and should improve with time.

Downfield: Has the athleticism to reach linebackers at the next level, and gives the effort to reach multiple defenders in space. Sustains once engaged with upper- and lower-body strength. Might not hit his target due to indecision and being a step slow.

Intangibles: Older prospect (turned 26 during 2010 season) with maturity and work ethic. Full of personality, referred to as "gregarious" in the team's media guide. Canadian national who played hockey and rugby in high school; has two fake front teeth as a result of his work as a hockey enforcer. Worked as a firefighter during and after high school, originally looked into Butte JC because of their firefighting academy. Very raw, only four years of playing experience.

Compares to: Logan Mankins, Patriots -- While perhaps not an elite athlete, Watkins' prototype size, strength and nasty, physical play inside should make him an immediate contributor at the pro level despite having just four years of football experience. Like Mankins, Watkins could surprise as a late first-round pick.

--Chad Reuter

2010 Season
Watkins, a two-year letterwinner from Kelowna, B.C., started all 25 games at left tackle during his Baylor career. As a senior in 2010, Watkins earned first-team All-Big 12 honors from numerous publications after leading the team with 134 knockdowns and an average coaches' grade of 90 percent. He posted the highest grade of any lineman in 12 of 13 games and led the team in knockdowns in every game. Watkins was drafted fourth overall in the May 2010 CFL Canadian Draft by his hometown B.C. Lions, but he chose to return to Baylor for his senior season.

[Bretsky]

04/04/2011 - Illinois defensive tackle Corey Liuget became the seventh prospect to publicly announce he intends to be at the NFL Draft, telling The (Champaign, Ill.) News-Gazette that he'll be at Radio City Music Hall on April 28. Liuget has enjoyed a strong pre-draft circuit, and has steadily moved up many teams' boards. The Miami native is viewed as a potential first-round prospect by NFLDraftScout.com, and boasts good versatility. His ability to generate a pass rush from the three-technique and nose spots will excite teams using four-man fronts. His experience at the five-technique and nose tackle positions his season should intrigue 3-4 teams, as well. The other players to publicly commit to being at the draft include UCLA linebacker Akeem Ayers, Iowa defensive end Adrian Clayborn, Alabama wide receiver Julio Jones, Texas A&M outside linebacker Von Miller, LSU cornerback Patrick Peterson and USC offensive tackle Tyron Smith. -Derek Harper, The Sports Xchange

•Full *Corey Liuget News Wire
Overview
Although Liuget (pronounced "legit") appeared to come out of nowhere as a top prospect in the team's 2010 bowl win over Baylor in the Texas Bowl, he was highly-recruited as one of the top prospects from the Miami area and quite productive with the Illini throughout his career despite losing playing time due to veteran depth at the position.

As a true freshman Liuget started two of the 11 games in which he played, making 26 tackles, five for loss and 1.5 sacks. He received only four starting nods in 2009, but still managed eight tackles for loss (of 36 stops), 2.5 sacks and three pass break-ups. His performance in the 2010 Texas Bowl win was certainly impressive (5 tackles, 2.5 TFL, sack), but he already been named second-team All-Big 10 for his play during the regular season. He finished with 63 tackles, 12.5, 4.5 sacks and 10 quarterback hurries on the year.

The Miami native's versatility may be what puts him among the top defensive tackle prospects in this class. His ability to get consistent pass rush from the three-technique and nose spots will excite teams using four-man fronts. His experience at the five-technique and nose tackle positions his season should intrigue 3-4 teams, as well.

Analysis
Pass rush: Tough for many college interior linemen to handle one-on-one in pass protection. Quick enough to beat lesser linemen off the snap at three-tech, uses his hands to free himself from block when there is enough space to do so. Gets his man on skates or pushes through a block (or double) to the quarterback to get pressure. Also strong and quick enough to play on the nose in obvious passing situations. Recovers from strong punch to run through a gap immediately. Does not have elite closing speed, but his hustle and ability to stay low make him difficult to escape within or outside the pocket.

Run defense: Stout defender who plays with a strong base. Penetrates into the backfield with quickness. Lines up at three and five-technique spots. Capable of stack-shed inside or outside. Gets past reach blocks on inside runs with quick feet and strength to keep blocker on his shoulder. Usually keeps his head up to find the ball. Lacks acceleration to keep outside containment as a five-technique. Not consistent defeating cut blocks with his hands.

Explosion: Not elite in his first step, but has enough to be a pass rush and penetrating run-stopper inside. Ballcarriers feel every bit of his strength when he tackles them, and blockers are bruised up with his punching and swiping throughout the game.

Strength: His ability to play multiple positions not only comes from his quick feet, but also his strength. Lands a big punch into the chest of his man, swipes with aggression to move the blocker aside. Uses his low center of gravity to his advantage, getting leverage to stack one-on-one and shed to either direction when playing two-gap at nose tackle. Senses zone block, uses blocker's inertia against him with a strong push to get into the backfield. Usually anchors well against single and double blocks, but can get moved by NFL-caliber linemen.

Tackling: Strong upper body, hustle, and good length make him an excellent tackler. Engulfs running backs in the backfield when able to penetrate. Built low to the ground, displays excellent change of direction ability to stay in front of backs cutting against the grain. Hustles 10-15 yards downfield to make or help on tackles. Adds himself to piles when able. Lacks elite closing speed to chase down backs from behind. Tends to run out of steam when playing a lot at the end of games.

Intangibles: Coaches say Liuget is a leader in the locker and meetings rooms. Chose Illinois over southern schools because of head coach Ron Zook. Wished to transfer after two years in Champaign due to home sickness; mother said he would not be welcome home if he transferred.

--Chad Reuter

2010 Season
Liuget had a career year in 2010, earning second-team All-Big Ten accolades after recording 63 tackles, 12.5 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks, 10 quarterback hurries and three passes broken up. He was a force in Illinois' 38-14 win over Baylor in the 2010 Texas Bowl, recording five tackles, 2.5 TFLs and a sack, earning him recognition on ESPN.com's 2010 All-Bowl Team. During the Oct. 16 game at Michigan State, Liuget collected a career-high 11 tackles, the most by an Illini defensive tackle since 1996. During his three-year Illinois career, Liuget had 125 tackles, 25.5 TFLs and 8.5 sacks.

[Bretsky]

04/04/2011 - Top offensive linemen: 2. Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State, 6-3, 313, 2, There are expectations, and then there's the Wisniewski family tree. No pressure, kid. Stefen is the nephew of Raiders O-line coach Steve Wisniewski, former Penn State All-American and Raiders All-Pro guard who was known for his demeanor and habit of ... not hearing the whistle. "He taught me a lot about what it takes to be a pro football player," Stefen Wisniewski said. "... he was known for finishing blocks and being a nasty guy and that's what I always try to." Music to Al Davis' ears. Offensive line coaches will tout Wisniewski in pre-draft meetings and not just for his bloodlines -- his father, Leo, also played on the Nittany Lions' line. Stefen Wisniewski is NFL-ready with intelligence, strength, durability and the prototype makeup to start immediately. - Jeff Reynolds, The Sports Xchange

•Full Stefen Wisniewski News Wire
Overview
The name Wisniewski is synonymous with Penn State football. Stefen's father (Leo) and uncle (Steve) played on the offensive line for the Nittany Lions. Leo played four seasons for the Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts. Steve was a two-time All-American at Penn State and then an eight-time All-Pro with the Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders in the 1990s. The newest "Wiz" in the middle of the offensive line has lived up to the family name.

Wisniewski was the first true freshman to start on the offensive line -- at right guard vs. Indiana -- for coach Joe Paterno in nearly a decade. He played in eight games, including the final seven in 2007 and then garnered second-team All-Big Ten honors by starting every game in 2008 (11 at right guard, the other on the left side). Stefen started every game as a junior in 2009, earning first-team All-Big Ten accolades, despite moving inside to center.

The western Pennsylvania product was an All-American and repeat first-team all-conference pick in 2010 as a starter at right guard, but most NFL scouts believe his best pro position is center. Given his genetic makeup, durability, strength and athleticism, expect Wisniewski to be a top-50 selection who could follow in his uncle Steve's footsteps as a long-term starter and potential Pro Bowl-caliber lineman.

Analysis
Pass blocking: Solid pass protector with very good athleticism. Quick pass set after shotgun or traditional snap. Moves well enough laterally to slide to help either guard. Good knee-bend and leverage against strong defenders. Does not overextend, staying balanced in pass protection. Aware and picks up inside blitzers after giving help to either side. Good punch to shock oncoming rushers, recoils quickly to deliver another if needed. Can be slow to recover if he takes a hand punch before delivering one. Loses his balance when reaching, on occasion.

Run blocking: Positional blocker with better technique than brute strength; does whatever is necessary to get the job done. Does not turn defenders to create holes, but latches on with strong hands and uses momentum to take players out of the gap. Moves feet to get to either shoulder of his assignment to shield defenders from the running lane. Fair anchor at the point of attack. He's not bowled over easily. Can put his man on the ground and keep him there, as he does not quit on blocks or plays until the whistle blows. Good leg drive and gets low quickly in short-yardage situations, though he won't always hit a defender before landing on the ground. Takes defenders out of the play and puts them to the ground when they try to go low near the goal line.

Pulling/trapping: Good quickness to the second level with the lateral and forward movement to attack and drive back linebackers once engaged. Good movement behind the line on pulls and adjusts to inside defenders and usually negates linebackers or safeties in his path. Aware enough to stop assigned pull to knock out chasing backside defenders if there is no obvious target in the hole. Could improve his ability to get out in front of running backs on the move.

Initial Quickness: Does not get out-quicked on run plays or in pass protection, usually getting his hands into the defender immediately to control him. Good set in pass protection. Quick first step to the second level.

Downfield: Effective downfield on screens and run blocks, though he does not have elite quickness to the second or third level. Usually finds a target when on the move and sustains using full effort, solid footwork and balance. Maintains proper blocking angle to free ballcarriers for extra yardage. Can hit multiple targets if needed. Will lose his balance when bending to square up and hit smaller defenders.

Intangibles: Is the type of intelligent, high-character, durable, hard-working, strong lineman all NFL offensive line coaches want leading their groups. Exceptional student-athlete, earning first-team Academic All-American honors in 2008, '09 and '10. Student teacher in 10th grade English at State College Area High School in 2009. Very involved in the community on issues from autism to Habitat for Humanity. Went on multiple mission trips to the Dominican Republic with father, Leo, and uncle, Steve, who both played for the Nittany Lions and in the NFL.

2010 Season
Wisniewski has started every game this season at right guard, after starting all 13 games at center in 2009. He has been instrumental in the Nittany Lions allowing only 12 sacks all season, good for No 2 in the Big Ten and tNo. 14 nationally. A starter in 37 of the last 38 games, Wisniewski is the 81st Penn State football student-athlete to earn first team All-America recognition, a total of 95 times, dating back to W.T. (Mother) Dunn's selection to the Walter Camp All-America squad in 1906. Wisniewski is the Nittany Lions' 78th first team All-American under Hall of Fame coach Joe Paterno.

[Bretsky]

Hankerson, a Fort Lauderdale product, envisioned his record-breaking career at "The U" from the time he could first catch a football. Now that he's turning pro, Hankerson has a new vision. He wants to follow in the expansive footsteps of former Hurricanes wide receivers such as Michael Irvin, Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson.

"It's an honor just having my name in the category with those guys," Hankerson said at the combine. "You want to carry on their traditions. It's no pressure, you just got to go out and work hard, compete in the weight room and in practice."

Hankerson, a star receiver on a three-time state champion in high school, had only 17 catches in his first two seasons at Miami while struggling with inconsistency. Before his junior season, Hankerson enlisted former Dolphins receiver Mark Duper to polish his route-running and become a well-rounded player.

The second half of Hankerson's Miami career included a senior season in which he had 72 catches for 1,156 yards and broke Irvin's single-season school record with 13 touchdown catches. He had six touchdown receptions as a junior, averaging 17.3 yards on his 45 catches in 2009, and his 22 career touchdown catches ranks third all-time at Miami behind Irvin and Lamar Thomas.

Ranked fourth among receivers by NFLDraftScout.com, Hankerson isn't an elite speed receiver and is prone to drops. Both issues held him back at the Senior Bowl, where he mostly blended with the crowd, and scouts left his pro day workout in March wondering if he's truly as fast as he timed (4.41 seconds in the 40-yard dash after a 4.40 at the combine).

"I feel like I need to work on getting in and out of my breaks, turning my hips, focusing and just making plays and finished after the catch," Hankerson said.

Johnson, who Hankerson said is his favorite player, along with high school position coach Cris Carter (yes, that Cris Carter) and Duper are advising him on what he needs to do to meet his lofty expectations.

"Mark Duper just told me to stay focused … keep doing what I'm doing."

Analysis
Release: Long-strider with deceptive build-up speed. At least moderate initial quickness to get into his route. Uses his long arms and lateral agility to combat press coverage.

Hands: Showed improvement in 2009 after struggling early in his career with drops. Generally catches the ball with his hands, but previously had allowed the ball to get into his pads and often tried to run before securing the pass. Wide wingspan and good leaping ability, giving his quarterback quite a target. Flashes the ability to extend and snatch the ball out of the air. At times showed a tendency toward alligator arms across the middle - not fully extending so as to avoid a big hit, but improved in his overall physicality and consistency as a senior.

Route running: Able to defeat the initial jam with his hands and good lateral agility. Has enough speed to force cornerbacks to respect the deep ball. Struggles to sink his hips and create explosion out of his cuts due to only moderate foot quickness and balance. Used on a variety of intermediate and long routes, as well as short drags across the middle, predominately.

After the catch: Enough straight-line speed to run away from defenders when he's hit in stride. Doesn't possess the quick feet and balance to elude in tight quarters. Showed better toughness, vision and determination running after the catch as a senior.

Blocking: Provides a good initial pop to the defender, but doesn't latch on with intensity consistently. Will look to help his teammates with a downfield block. Could improve in this area with more effort.

Intangibles: Struggled with drops amid the pressure of being a highly-touted prep prospect. With the help of his uncle, Hankerson received on-field tutoring from former Miami Dolphins star Mark Duper and enjoyed a breakout campaign in 2009. High school position coach was former NFL star and current ESPN football analyst Cris Carter.

Compares to: Sidney Rice, Vikings -- Hankerson would be a good fit in a West Coast-type offense because of his size and build-up speed. Rice was the 44th overall pick in 2007 and is more fluid and taller than Hankerson, but had a similar skill set entering the NFL.

--Rob Rang

Career Notes
Arguably the best statistical season by a wide receiver in Miami history in 2010 … Became just the third player in program history to record a 1,000-yard receiving season and the first to have 2,000 yards for a career and 1,000 in a season … His 22 receiving touchdowns rank third all-time at Miami behind Michael Irvin (26) and Lamar Thomas (23) … One of only three players in school history with back-to-back 800-yard receiving seasons (Irvin, Andre Johnson) … Caught a pass in 26 straight games dating back to Sept. 7, 2009 … Played in 41 games over his career (2007-2010) … Earned First-Team All-ACC honors as a senior … Wrapped up his career with 2,160 receiving yards on 134 receptions … Named team most valuable player in final season.

2010 Season
Led Miami with career-high 1,156 receiving yards on a team-high 72 receptions … Also the team leader with 13 receiving touchdowns … His 13 receiving touchdowns set a Miami record, breaking Michael Irvin's mark of 11 set in 1986 … In the regular-season finale vs. USF, he became just the third player in program history to record a 1,000-yard receiving season and the first to have 2,000 yards for a career and 1,000 yards in a season … Owns single-season receiving totals in UM history with 1,156, passing Andre Johnson (2002-1,092) and Eddie Brown (1984-1,114) … Ranked 12th in the nation in total receiving yards (1,156) and 16th in receiving yards per game (88.9) … The ACC's leading receiver, averaging 88.9 yards per game … Finished the season ranked second in the ACC in receptions per game (5.5) and ninth in the conference in all-purpose yards (1,156) … Set single-game career highs in catches (9 vs. USF), yards (147 at Clemson), touchdowns (3, at Clemson) and long reception (79 yards, at Georgia Tech) … Totaled four games with 100 or more receiving yards … Caught passes for more than 50 yards in 12-of-13 games … Six catches for 115 yards and two touchdowns vs. FAMU … Caught seven balls at Ohio State for 90 yards … Recorded seven catches for 147 yards and three touchdowns at Clemson … Had six catches in four more games, including at Duke, at Virginia, vs. Virginia Tech and vs. Notre Dame … Caught touchdown passes in six consecutive games from Oct. 16-Nov. 20 … Started 11-of-13 games … Averaged 16.1 yards per catch … Named the ACC's Offensive Back of the Week after performance at Clemson.

[Bretsky]

03/25/2011 - Pitt Pro day: No question Jon Baldwin was the player to see at Pittsburgh's recent pro day, and he didn't disappoint. Baldwin, who measured in at 6-foot-4 and 224 pounds and stood on all of his measurables from the NFL Scouting Combine, was outstanding in his workouts. Working with receiver coach Richard Mann, he ran 18 scripted routes. Throwing to him was Josh Portis, a quarterback from California University of Pennsylvania who looked good at the combine. Portis, one of the most sought after quarterbacks out of high school, started at Florida and transferred to Maryland before ending up with the Vulcans. But his job yesterday was throwing to Baldwin. I will say it was the first time I've ever seen a scripted workout by a player other than a quarterback. Baldwin will probably be the third receiver off the board at the draft. He's in my top 100 between 31-40 overall, a likely second-round pick. A total of 10 players worked out at Pittsburgh's shared facility with the Steelers, running inside on FieldTurf. All 32 teams were in attendance, including Steelers coach Mike Tomlin and GM Kevin Colbert. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com

•Full *Jon Baldwin News Wire
Overview
Aliquippa High has produced several successful Pitt Panthers over the years, from NFL Hall of Fame tight end and Super Bowl-winning head coach Mike Ditka to current Pro Bowl cornerback Darrelle Revis. Baldwin followed those alumni to the Panthers, putting his own stamp on the program during his three-year career.

He played in all 13 games as a true freshman, starting the final three, and had 18 receptions for 414 yards (22.4-yard average) and two scores. Baldwin really broke out as a sophomore, earning first-team All-Big East honors and All-American notice with 57 receptions for 1,111 yards and eight touchdowns.

His final year at Pitt was not as productive as scouts would have liked (52-810-5), but he still was named first-team All-Big East and the team's quarterback play was below-average. The departure of his head coach and unhappiness with the team's offense led Baldwin to leave school early, but unless he proves his straight-line speed and coaches overlook his inconsistency, he might be disappointed to be drafted lower than he expects.

Analysis
Release: Gets off the line quickly considering his long, lanky frame. Presses corners when they play off -- which was commonplace at Pitt -- forcing them to turn their hips. Stutters around his man to get the sideline and separate when let free off the line. Locked up in press by smaller corners, however, must learn to use his hands to get off jam.

Hands: Capable of making sensational catches but dropped catchable passes when the team needed plays. Can snag high throws using height and vertical leap, also lays out for passes using great length. Fails to high-point jump balls consistently, too often waiting until they fall into his chest. Senses when big hits are coming.

Route running: Runs most of the route tree. His specialty is the nine route, but is also used on shallow and intermediate crosses. Willing to sit down in the zone over the middle. Gives head fake to get inside position on skinny post and seam. Could tighten up his footwork, rounds into and out of crossing routes instead of plant-and-driving. Must prove the quickness to run jerk routes inside.

After the catch: One of the areas in which he needs work. Gets the most out of plays when on the run, eluding oncoming defenders by allowing them to slide past. Long arms allow him to hold off smaller defenders. Flashes the balance to keep running after high-pointing a pass down the sideline. Height and average strength takes away his ability to elude NFL-caliber tackles in short areas. Jumps when unnecessary, taking away run-after-catch chances. Takes circuitous routes on comeback routes.

Blocking: Shows promise as a blocker with better effort. Usually takes aggression to the defender, churning his legs to push him back 10-15 yards at times. Has the length to hold off his man. Lacks flexibility to mirror NFL defensive backs and is very inconsistent moving his feet to sustain throughout the play.

Intangibles: Scouts will have questions about his attitude and maturity. Charged with misdemeanor indecent assault, harassment and disorderly conduct in May 2009 after an incident involving a female student on campus shuttle bus; charges eventually dropped. Father was a defensive lineman for the Panthers in the early 1980s. His cousin, Charles Fisher, played defensive back at West Virginia in the late 1990s and played in the NFL.

2010 Season
Baldwin, a two-time first-team All-Big East performer, finished the season with 53 catches for 822 yards and five touchdowns. His career receiving yardage total of 2,337 ranks sixth all-time at Pitt, while his receptions total of 128 ranks eighth.

[Bretsky]

03/30/2011 - Overrated: Titus Young, Boise State: I hear the comparison of Young to DeSean Jackson and chuckle. They are similar in that both played in the West, are considerably lighter than most NFL receivers and left school with significant off-field concerns. At 5-11, 174 pounds Young was electronically timed at the 2011 combine at 4.49 seconds. At 5-10, 169 pounds Jackson was clocked at 4.35 seconds in 2008. Some have pointed to their return skills. Young was a standout kick returner for Boise State, but his lack of bulk won't allow him to play that position in the NFL and he returned only 11 punts in four seasons with the Broncos. This, of course, is quite a bit different than the six punt return touchdowns Jackson scored for California against better competition. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

•Full Titus Young News Wire
Overview
There's no doubt Young can stretch the field. He averaged more than 15 yards per reception over his four-year career at Boise State, and he reeled in 25 touchdown passes. Of course, those totals could be quite a bit higher if not for some off-field issues.

As a sophomore, Young was suspended for the final nine games of the season, including the Poinsettia Bowl loss to TCU, for breaking unspecified team rules. He has kept his nose clean since, becoming a real Rubik's Cube for WAC defenses.

As a freshman, Young caught at least one pass in all 13 games, finishing third on the team with 44 receptions and five scores. After his sophomore hiatus, he became the only player in the conference to earn two first-team All-WAC honors, making the cut as both a receiver and a return specialist in 2009.

That all pales in comparison to his senior stat sheet. His 71 receptions, 1,215 yards and nine touchdowns once again placed Young on the conference's first team, and he was also recognized by the Associated Press as a third-team All-American.

He's not a big-bodied guy and he lacks ideal height, but he's a sneaky player off the line with the ability to consistently slip press coverage and get behind the secondary. If he can continue to walk the straight and narrow, his versatility and value as a kick returner could land him in the mid-rounds as a potential dynamo in the slot.

Analysis
Strengths: Very quick receiver who eats up the cushion out of his breaks and gets on top of the corner in a hurry. Has a solid second gear to get down the field after initial moves and can run away from defenders. Explodes out of his stance with no wasted steps and does a nice job of stemming his routes. Is a sudden athlete who moves seamlessly in and out of his breaks without sacrificing acceleration. Maintains his balance when cutting and keeps his feet under him in his routes. Runs crisp routes to earn consistent separation from defenders and is shifty enough out of his stance to slip press coverage. Has great lateral quickness in the open field and can create on his own after the reception. Sells out to make tough catches and fully extends his body and arms when going over the middle. Possesses strong wrists to snag the ball and hold onto it in traffic. Tracks passes over either shoulder. Understands spacing and will not drift back into coverage. Versatile player who brings added value as both a kick and punt returner due to this combination of straight-line running, toughness and elusiveness.

Weaknesses: Slight, thin frame that may not hold up in the NFL with his playing style. Loses focus and drops catchable passes. Concentration wavers all too often and will look to run upfield before securing the ball. Does not win jump balls often and struggles to out-leap defenders. Can be stymied at the line by physical corners and lacks the strength and drive to be an effective run blocker. Has nice timed speed, but lacks elite ability to burn by defensive backs on a consistent basis. Has a reputation as an egotistical player who can resist coaching.

--Hunter Ansley

2010 Season
Young, a three-time first-team All-WAC selection, wrapped up his career at Boise State as the school's all-time leading receiver with 3,063 yards. Thanks to a 64-yard effort in the Broncos' bowl game, he also set the school's all-time single season receiving yards record with 1,215 on the year. He finished second behind Pettis in career receptions (204) and fourth in career receiving touchdowns (25). He is the first Bronco to eclipse the 1,000-yard receiving mark twice (2009, 2010) and is also a threat in the return game, averaging 152.42 all-purpose yards per game during the regular season-a mark that ranked in the top 20 in the country. Young's 43-game streak with a reception is currently tied for second best in the country.

Played in each of the Broncos' 12 games during his final collegiate campaign, including 10 starts … named first-team All-Western Athletic Conference for the second-straight year … caught 65 passes for a career-high 1,151 yards … reception total is seventh-most in single-season history, and his yardage total is the second-most all-time … 198 career receptions is the second-most in school history … 2,999 career receiving yards are the most in school history … nine receiving touchdowns in 2010 are tied for the ninth-most in Boise State single-season history … 25 career receiving scores are the fourth-most in school history … has 35 total touchdowns on his career, tied for the seventh-most in school history … second-straight 1,000-yard season was the ninth in Boise State history … first Bronco to record two 1,000- yard seasons … 1,436 all-purpose yards is tied for the team high with Doug Martin … his 4,386 career all-purpose ranks sixth all-time at Boise State … four 100-yard receiving efforts, and had eclipsed triple digits by halftime in three games … at least four receptions in every game, including a season-high eight for a career-high 164 yards against Fresno State (Nov. 19) … season-high two touchdowns against the Bulldogs.

Caught five passes for 136 yards and a touchdown - all in the first half - against No. 24 Oregon State (Sept. 25) … led the team in catches (seven) and yards (105) against San Jose State, and had 101 yards at halftime … led team in catches (six) and yards (129) at No. 19 Nevada (Nov. 26) … also had 99 yards against Hawai'i … also ran for and caught a touchdown against the Spartans … 83-yard touchdown catch against Hawai'i was the ninth-longest pass play in school history … also caught a 58-yard touchdown pass against Idaho … rushed 11 times for 85 yards and a touchdown on the season … returned 23 kickoffs for 550 yards (23.9-yard average) … returned four punts for 43 yards, three of which came against the Beavers … season-long 36-yard return at Wyoming (Sept. 18) … received the team's Outstanding Offensive Player of the Year Award in a vote of his teammates at the season-ending banquet.

[Guiness]

I'll change my pick now to one of the OTs available....I think there will be a good RB available in the 2nd or the 3rd. Is Mikel the guy from VT?

Well, that's exactly what TT would not do...zero in on a position and make a need pick.

[Freak Out]

Well, that's exactly what TT would not do...zero in on a position and make a need pick.

In case you hadn't noticed TT isn't the one drafting here. :)

[RashanGary]

The write ups were nice. I read the Reed and Ingram ones. I'm still leaning Ingram. He's going to be a dominant redzone back IMO. He can always get that last yard.

[3irty1]

A guy like Watkins would do more for the running game than Ingram IMO. I'd still welcome the Ingram pick if he were available here. If it happens can we start saying "roll tide" when he does something good? I've always been a little jealous.

[Lurker64]

I'm assuming you want one of the guards with this pick Lurker. Which one? And, who in your eyes is the BPA in our mock draft?

Based purely on tape, since we don't have full workouts on all of these guys, and sliding from a BPA approach (best player available) to a BVA (best value available); that is the player who does the most to improve your team; the guy I like the most here is Ijalana, second is probably Watkins. Not sure how much of a problem Watkins' age is really. Ijalana is actually the #3 OL on my personal board, behind Carimi and Smith. We didn't get a workout on him, but he was one of two players who really popped out when you watched Villanova games (and they went deep into the FCS playoffs the last couple years, so I saw about 8 games), the other being RB/WR Matt Szczur who has gone off to play baseball professionally instead. I think he's probably the best guard in this class (it's him or Watkins), and not unsuited to playing tackle either, unlike a one-position player like Pouncey.

So if I'm the GM, I'm pulling the trigger on Ijalana or Watkins here, probably Ijalana though I could be convinced to go with Watkins and I think this is what Thompson may well do, just because he's a strong believer in the "there are only so many athletic big men on the planet." Breaks my heart not to take an OLB, since it's the biggest need, but I would consider moving up in the second to target an Acho or a Moch. I just can't advocate taking an RB in the first round, it's not something I would do as a GM. There's some options at WR here, but I think that we're at the top of the second tier here and the middle tiers for WRs this year are actually pretty good so you afford to wait.

Darkhorse BPA here is Notre Dame TE Kyle Rudolph. I know that McCarthy is a big fan of the two-TE offense, and if he has doubts about Finley's recovery or Quarless's development (Crabtree is a valued contributor, but he's destined to just be a spot player) I could see that being the pick, which would confuse or enrage a lot of Packer fans... which is why it's probably the pick.

[gbpackfan]

This pick is still to close to call. The poll continues!

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Based purely on tape, since we don't have full workouts on all of these guys, and sliding from a BPA approach (best player available) to a BVA (best value available); that is the player who does the most to improve your team; the guy I like the most here is Ijalana, second is probably Watkins. Not sure how much of a problem Watkins' age is really. Ijalana is actually the #3 OL on my personal board, behind Carimi and Smith. We didn't get a workout on him, but he was one of two players who really popped out when you watched Villanova games (and they went deep into the FCS playoffs the last couple years, so I saw about 8 games), the other being RB/WR Matt Szczur who has gone off to play baseball professionally instead. I think he's probably the best guard in this class (it's him or Watkins), and not unsuited to playing tackle either, unlike a one-position player like Pouncey.

So if I'm the GM, I'm pulling the trigger on Ijalana or Watkins here, probably Ijalana though I could be convinced to go with Watkins and I think this is what Thompson may well do, just because he's a strong believer in the "there are only so many athletic big men on the planet." Breaks my heart not to take an OLB, since it's the biggest need, but I would consider moving up in the second to target an Acho or a Moch. I just can't advocate taking an RB in the first round, it's not something I would do as a GM. There's some options at WR here, but I think that we're at the top of the second tier here and the middle tiers for WRs this year are actually pretty good so you afford to wait.

Darkhorse BPA here is Notre Dame TE Kyle Rudolph. I know that McCarthy is a big fan of the two-TE offense, and if he has doubts about Finley's recovery or Quarless's development (Crabtree is a valued contributor, but he's destined to just be a spot player) I could see that being the pick, which would confuse or enrage a lot of Packer fans... which is why it's probably the pick.

Thanks for your explanation. I haven't seen any Villanova games, so Ijalana is a mystery to me. I did however watch a couple Baylor games last year, and Watkins was the anchor of that line.

If we did go reciever, I'd like to see Titus Young over Baldwin. Titus Young could be the return threat we've been missing, plus, he doesn't have a questionable work ethic like Baldwin. And you may be right, in the opinion that Rudolph is a viable darkhorse BPA.

One thing is clear, there will be plenty of value at pick 32.

[Lurker64]

This pick is still to close to call. The poll continues!

Considering that it's really a two-horse race based on the votes so far, and 10 votes have been cast for people other than the two horses, we could potentially get more clarity with a run-off poll where we eliminated, say, the people who only got one vote.

[cheesner]

BPA Ingram - easy choice.

[mraynrand]

Considering that it's really a two-horse race based on the votes so far, and 10 votes have been cast for people other than the two horses, we could potentially get more clarity with a run-off poll where we eliminated, say, the people who only got one vote.


I would take the LB given the choice between the two.

[3irty1]

lets redo the poll with just the top 3 options.

[packrulz]

RB Ingram to slip out of the first round?

Posted on: April 3, 2011 12:29 pm
If I've learned one thing in my years as an NFL Draft analyst it is that when several of us come to a consensus that Player A will be drafted by Team A at any spot other than the No. 1 overall, we're all usually wrong.

This may prove to be the case again this year.

Many draft prognosticators, including Chad Reuter and I , have pegged the Miami Dolphins to select Alabama running back Mark Ingram with the No. 15 overall pick. This selection, in fact, may be the most agreed upon pick in the entire first round, including No. 1 overall, at this point.

Which is all the more reason why I decided to investigate it further.

Though sources throughout the league certainly recognize the Dolphins' need at running back, they'd be surprised if Miami took Ingram.

One source simply didn't feel that Ingram was worth a first round pick -- something I argued vehemently .

Others thought Ingram was a "legitimate first round player," but cited the decreasing value of running backs in today's NFL as reason enough why Ingram would not only slip past Miami, but perhaps out of the first round, entirely.

"I agree with you. He's a helluva player, but history has proven that you can find running backs later in the draft," one high-ranking team source said.

"Are you really getting the bang for your buck by taking a back in the first round?"

Ingram is NFLDraftScout.com's top-rated running back and No. 12 player, overall . We view him as a first round value. Apparently, several teams, on the other hand, do not.

[Tony Oday]

Brooks Reed :)

[vince]

This is interesting and regarding some prospects dramatically different than what is being put forth here.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/04/06/pfws-exclusive-draft-value-chart-4

[Bretsky]

This is interesting and regarding some prospects dramatically different than what is being put forth here.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/04/06/pfws-exclusive-draft-value-chart-4


That IMO is a dam good analysis in one chart

[gbpackfan]

When should we end this poll?

[Bretsky]

Sunday at Midnight

Truth be told, I think most would be happy with either Ingram or Brooks Reed

Hey, who'd we pick last year ??? I can not remember what our mock draft said

Can somebody who has time bump that thread ?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Sunday at Midnight

Truth be told, I think most would be happy with either Ingram or Brooks Reed

Hey, who'd we pick last year ??? I can not remember what our mock draft said

Can somebody who has time bump that thread ?

If I'm not mistaken, it was right on the money with Bulaga. Didn't we get Raji right as well?

[Guiness]

If I'm not mistaken, it was right on the money with Bulaga. Didn't we get Raji right as well?

If that's true, we're going to break the streak by predicting Ingram. No way in hell that happens. If his knees are ok, he goes higher, if they're wonky, he'll be lucky to go in round 2.

[Lurker64]

If that's true, we're going to break the streak by predicting Ingram. No way in hell that happens. If his knees are ok, he goes higher, if they're wonky, he'll be lucky to go in round 2.

If he were to fall to 32, I would bet Thompson would be trying to trade down aggressively. In that case, no way we'd predict the pick. I don't remember if we did a community mock back then, but we'd never have called Jordy Nelson.

[Fred's Slacks]

If he were to fall to 32, I would bet Thompson would be trying to trade down aggressively. In that case, no way we'd predict the pick. I don't remember if we did a community mock back then, but we'd never have called Jordy Nelson.

I wouldn't be suprised if we jumped on Ingram if available. Grant's coming off injury, Starks has played like 6 games in 2 years, Jackson may not be back and Nance is unknown/PS type player. TT has always preached about BPA and that you don't know where your needs are so trying to fill them is futile.

[Bretsky]

If I'm not mistaken, it was right on the money with Bulaga. Didn't we get Raji right as well?


Last yr the poll picked Anthony Davis....OT

[Fritz]

I like Justin Houston and Cam Heyward. Both could conceivably be sitting there at #32.

[Bretsky]

I like Justin Houston and Cam Heyward. Both could conceivably be sitting there at #32.

I'm with you on Houston....but Hayward....classic boom or bust kind of guy IMO. Not sure I'd want that

[Lurker64]

I wouldn't be suprised if we jumped on Ingram if available. Grant's coming off injury, Starks has played like 6 games in 2 years, Jackson may not be back and Nance is unknown/PS type player. TT has always preached about BPA and that you don't know where your needs are so trying to fill them is futile.

Except that, exception truly exceptional running backs like Adrian Peterson, running back does not offer very good positional value in the first round. Almost without exception I would rather take a running back at the end of the second, third, or fourth round than in the first. Since Ingram is not a special talent, and a top RB is not necessary to succeed in the NFL I would much rather take a second or third tier guy in the later rounds and a guy at a harder position to fill than take a top tier running back and try to find a gem at the positions that have a higher degree of difficulty to pick.

Sign me up for LeShoure, Williams, Vereen, Harper, Hunter, Jones, or Rodgers in the second or later as dictated by your board, but I would never draft a non-special RB in the first round. So if I were in the draft room at 1265 Lombardi, I would argue vehemently for a guy like Ijalana over a guy like Ingram. In terms of "positional value" I would put RB behind QB, OT, OG, OC, WR, DE, NT, OLB, CB, and about even with S, TE, and ILB (though probably behind S.) And it's not like, in our mock, there's not considerable value at some of the more valuable positions available here at #32. Ijalana or Watkins are BPA here, it's just that people don't think they are since they watch Alabama football and not Villanova or Baylor football.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Except that, exception truly exceptional running backs like Adrian Peterson, running back does not offer very good positional value in the first round. Almost without exception I would rather take a running back at the end of the second, third, or fourth round than in the first. Since Ingram is not a special talent, and a top RB is not necessary to succeed in the NFL I would much rather take a second or third tier guy in the later rounds and a guy at a harder position to fill than take a top tier running back and try to find a gem at the positions that have a higher degree of difficulty to pick.

Sign me up for LeShoure, Williams, Vereen, Harper, Hunter, Jones, or Rodgers in the second or later as dictated by your board, but I would never draft a non-special RB in the first round. So if I were in the draft room at 1265 Lombardi, I would argue vehemently for a guy like Ijalana over a guy like Ingram. In terms of "positional value" I would put RB behind QB, OT, OG, OC, WR, DE, NT, OLB, CB, and about even with S, TE, and ILB (though probably behind S.) And it's not like, in our mock, there's not considerable value at some of the more valuable positions available here at #32. Ijalana or Watkins are BPA here, it's just that people don't think they are since they watch Alabama football and not Villanova or Baylor football.

Completely agree with this. Which is why I voted for Reed.

[Fred's Slacks]

Except that, exception truly exceptional running backs like Adrian Peterson, running back does not offer very good positional value in the first round. Almost without exception I would rather take a running back at the end of the second, third, or fourth round than in the first. Since Ingram is not a special talent, and a top RB is not necessary to succeed in the NFL I would much rather take a second or third tier guy in the later rounds and a guy at a harder position to fill than take a top tier running back and try to find a gem at the positions that have a higher degree of difficulty to pick.

Sign me up for LeShoure, Williams, Vereen, Harper, Hunter, Jones, or Rodgers in the second or later as dictated by your board, but I would never draft a non-special RB in the first round. So if I were in the draft room at 1265 Lombardi, I would argue vehemently for a guy like Ijalana over a guy like Ingram. In terms of "positional value" I would put RB behind QB, OT, OG, OC, WR, DE, NT, OLB, CB, and about even with S, TE, and ILB (though probably behind S.) And it's not like, in our mock, there's not considerable value at some of the more valuable positions available here at #32. Ijalana or Watkins are BPA here, it's just that people don't think they are since they watch Alabama football and not Villanova or Baylor football.

I can agree with that. Except that some may think that Ingram is special. Maybe not on par with AD or Chris Johnson but closer to a Frank Gore or MJD caliber back. That may be worth an R1. Its all probably moot anyway. I don't think we'll get him.

[swede]

I do think that we should have a head to head run-off between Brooks and Ingram.

We may have to apply the TT test: all football, good character, good for team chemistry, etc....

[gabe]

Ashleys out of town, but we talked about it today. I like Watkins the best here, Ashley like Jon Baldwin. We both agreed we don't see Ingram here nor do we want Ingram in this spot because James Starks and Ryan grant got it locked up. We agreed on Brooks reed who we hope with Kevin Greene, and clay Matthews to learn from he could cconceivably become clay Matthews lite. I think Ashley also did it because she thinks it would be cool for 3 of our starting linebackers to have long blonde hair. Haha

[Lurker64]

I do think that we should have a head to head run-off between Brooks and Ingram.

We may have to apply the TT test: all football, good character, good for team chemistry, etc....

So there's at least three people who have advocated for doing a runoff of some sort, do you think we could have one? I mean, asking for a majority instead of a plurality isn't ridiculous. At the time of this posting we have 14 for Ingram, 12 for Reed, and 11 for "other".

[Bretsky]

So there's at least three people who have advocated for doing a runoff of some sort, do you think we could have one? I mean, asking for a majority instead of a plurality isn't ridiculous. At the time of this posting we have 14 for Ingram, 12 for Reed, and 11 for "other".

Don't buy your campaign against Ingram; don't buy your argument that he is not a special talent and I'm a bit surprised others are not arguing on this as well. He's been an elite college RB his college career.

You may have convinced enough in here to flip their vote from Reed to Ingram if we have another runoff.

The last second round draft pick we made at RB was Brandon Jackson....a specialist. LeShoure won't be around when we make our pick in round two and IMO he's not in a class where you consider him in round one..

If Ingram is healthy, the reason he got the majority vote in a democracy type setting is they do view him as a spcial talent and the BPA on the board. Since RB is not a primary need, the only reason those 14 would have votes for him is they do think he's a special talent and a step above the rest of the class.

If you think he's special he's the BPA; if not you go for need since you are choosing from a tier below the elite talent at OL/LB/...........etc

[RashanGary]

Don't buy your campaign against Ingram; don't buy your argument that he is not a special talent and I'm a bit surprised others are not arguing on this as well. He's been an elite college RB his college career.

You may have convinced enough in here to flip their vote from Reed to Ingram if we have another runoff.

The last second round draft pick we made at RB was Brandon Jackson....a specialist. LeShoure won't be around when we make our pick in round two and IMO he's not in a class where you consider him in round one..

If Ingram is healthy, the reason he got the majority vote in a democracy type setting is they do view him as a spcial talent and the BPA on the board. Since RB is not a primary need, the only reason those 14 would have votes for him is they do think he's a special talent and a step above the rest of the class.

If you think he's special he's the BPA; if not you go for need since you are choosing from a tier below the elite talent at OL/LB/...........etc

Mark Ingram compares to Priest Holmes and Emmit Smith. Even Ladanian Tomlinson is more of that no nonsense type runner than he is a "big over power you" guy or a "quick, out maneuver you" guy. Obviously these are three great backs we're comparing him too, but that's his style. He's a complete RB. Ryan Grant has a similar style, but he can't break tackles. Ingram can. Most of the good RB's in the NFL run similar to Mark Ingram and Ingram is damn good at it. I'd take him at 32 and not think twice. I'd rather have a DL, OL or even OLB, but if the best player by far is a RB, then you have to take him.

[red]

i just got on this thread for the first time

sorry B, but ingram is not an elite talent. he's got the big name, the heisman and played for a big team, IMO he's more emmitt smith then barry sanders. any asshole with two legs could run through the holes that emmitt got. smith had one of the best o-lines of all time. barry had shit, but his elite talent got him through.

i see the same with ingram, not really fast, not really strong, not the quickest, but he played 3 years for one of if not the best team in college football over those years. put him on toledo's team, is he still a "dominate rb"? i don't think he would be, i think he would be a JAG

i don't see ingram giving us anything we don't already have on the roster

also, while we're at it, i'd like to mention just how fucked up the whole mock draft thing is. 2 or 3 weeks ago none of us on here had even heard of brooks reed. he had a decent combine, had an ok career, but nothing special. most experts that i saw had him as a third or fourth round pick, maybe a late second. then one of the big experts put two and two together. the guy looks and plays just like CMIII, the packers need another OLB, and TT isn't afraid to reach for a guy he likes. the expert stated that under kevin green, reed would have a bright future. within a day or two about half the mock drafts out there jumped on this bandwagon and had reed going to green bay. then a few days later a few of the mocks had the teams right in front of green bay taking him. now all of a sudden i see him as a ton 15 or 20 pick. i find this hillarious

99.95 percent of the people doing the mock drafts have no clue what the hell they are doing. they just look at everyone else's and try to tweek theres a little bit to make them look unique

[Lurker64]

I would explain why Ingram's not an elite talent, but red just did it. He wasn't even the best running back on his team last year. Ingram would be an incredibly average talent were he not playing behind a dominant line, and if we took him he would be just that.

[RashanGary]

I would explain why Ingram's not an elite talent, but red just did it. He wasn't even the best running back on his team last year. Ingram would be an incredibly average talent were he not playing behind a dominant line, and if we took him he would be just that.

Brian Cushing wasn't even the best LB on his team and he played for a powerhouse that can make guys look better, yet he turned out OK. Tom Brady wasn't even the starting QB at Michigan for much of his time there, yet he turned out OK.

If the greatest powerhouse in college football has a prospect better than Ingram, that's hardly damning.


But I see your point. I've heard him called the AJ Hawk of RB's. I'd be happy with him at 32. Better than taking Hawk at #5.

[Guiness]

also, while we're at it, i'd like to mention just how fucked up the whole mock draft thing is. 2 or 3 weeks ago none of us on here had even heard of brooks reed. he had a decent combine, had an ok career, but nothing special. most experts that i saw had him as a third or fourth round pick, maybe a late second. then one of the big experts put two and two together. the guy looks and plays just like CMIII, the packers need another OLB, and TT isn't afraid to reach for a guy he likes. the expert stated that under kevin green, reed would have a bright future. within a day or two about half the mock drafts out there jumped on this bandwagon and had reed going to green bay. then a few days later a few of the mocks had the teams right in front of green bay taking him. now all of a sudden i see him as a ton 15 or 20 pick. i find this hillarious

99.95 percent of the people doing the mock drafts have no clue what the hell they are doing. they just look at everyone else's and try to tweek theres a little bit to make them look unique

Agreed on the Reed thing. When I first heard his name, I was thinking 'good guy to take a flier on with our 3rd round pick.' Now, we likely won't get him with our second...although the 'media experts' are media experts for a reason. They'd all work for teams if they could.

[Guiness]

If you think he's special he's the BPA; if not you go for need since you are choosing from a tier below the elite talent at OL/LB/...........etc

At the end of the first round, the BPA isn't necessarily a special talent. But you still take him if you consider him a flight above the other players left.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Last yr the poll picked Anthony Davis....OT

Hmm, felt like it was Bulaga for some reason. I tried to search for the thread but couldn't come up with it. I'm glad someone else is more adept at that than I am.

[gbpackfan]

It is what it is folks, no re-vote. This isn't Bush/Gore where the election process is going to be a long, drawn out mess. Ingram is the pick!

[mraynrand]

It is what it is folks, no re-vote. This isn't Bush/Gore where the election process is going to be a long, drawn out mess. Ingram is the pick!


Thank God

http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/life/summer2001/around.campus/C-BOIES.jpg