PACKERS NEED BY POSTIONS- BLOGS

[Bretsky]

Each yr the JS will provide some pretty good coverage but it hasn't started yet. My guess is that it's about to kick off when these blogs are starting

Info on RB's here.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119666384.html

[Smidgeon]

"Things won’t be easy for Starks, who had a fumbling problem in college, but didn’t cough it up once in 81 touches with the Packers."

Wait--I thought Starks didn't fumble in college. Did I mis-remember?

[sharpe1027]

Zero fumbles in 700 carries according to ESPN.

Apparently, ESPN likes to list stat categories that it does not track. According to various other sites, Starks fumbled 19 times in only 700 carries and lost 12 of them. Not so hot.

[Guiness]

Zero fumbles in 700 carries according to ESPN.

0 fumbles in 700 carries. lol boys, good research

[channtheman]

"Things won’t be easy for Starks, who had a fumbling problem in college, but didn’t cough it up once in 81 touches with the Packers."

Wait--I thought Starks didn't fumble in college. Did I mis-remember?

That's what I had thought too. I was sure he never fumbled. And thanks to sharpe, it appears he didn't. Poor writing.

I get a kick out of the comment I read that said Starks ran too high. I really don't care how someone runs if they are effective.

[sharpe1027]

Sorry for the confusion. I looked it up on ESPN and posted before I realized that ESPN just didn't list ANY fumbles. Thus, I added the second line as an edit. I am pretty certain he fumbled quite a bit in college. He even played against the Badgers and fumbled, which I probably should have remembered.

http://www.ubathletics.buffalo.edu/football/news/ftb11-18-2006-wisconsin.shtml

[Bretsky]

NEXT ONE; TIGHT ENDS......interesting to read the contract comments about Finley.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119739544.html

[Tarlam!]

Packer fans have got to be hoping Finley has a huge season if, indeed, this will be his final one in G&G.

[bobblehead]

Just curious. What in TT's tenure in GB has led anyone to conclude that he will not resign JFinley? what young upcoming star has he let walk that I am not remembering?

[Tarlam!]

Just curious. What in TT's tenure in GB has led anyone to conclude that he will not resign JFinley? what young upcoming star has he let walk that I am not remembering?

TT won't overpay, that we know and the blog suggests Finley will go to the highest bidder. That's not likely to be TT, the blog suggests.

[Patler]

Just curious. What in TT's tenure in GB has led anyone to conclude that he will not resign JFinley? what young upcoming star has he let walk that I am not remembering?

Exactly. Older ones, a few; but young ones signing their second contracts? The closest would be Cory Williams, and he was OK but not a star, and probably was overpaid for what he would have meant to GB. The "franchise and trade" was an effective alternative for that situation.

That said, as the young Packers mature, there will probably be a few that are lost as UFAs, even going in to their second contracts. If they have 3-5 each year who are starters and can get big contracts because they play for a winner, the Packers may not be able to afford them all. Wolf had to let a few get away (Paup, Timmerman, etc.) TT may have to as well. Who they will be may depend on the abilities of the guys with 1 or 2 years experience behind them. If Quarless comes on in 2011, letting Finley go could be a way to save money for signing someone without the same quality reserve to replace them. If Quarless fails to show much, the push to keep Finley around a few more years will be higher.

Then again, Finley might not be all that expensive if he doesn't have a healthy year in 2011.

[get louder at lambeau]

Vernon Davis is the highest paid TE in the game right now. He signed a 5 year contract with $23 million guaranteed and $37 million total value last year. Tight end is not a prohibitively expensive position to keep.

[get louder at lambeau]

I thought of a good example of a young player not getting re-signed by Thompson, that could apply if Finley turns into a diva- Javon Walker.

[Tarlam!]

I thought of a good example of a young player not getting re-signed by Thompson, that could apply if Finley turns into a diva- Javon Walker.

I thought about him, but he was damaged goods. Walker began screaming for a new deal with two years left on his rookie deal, then proceded to blow out his ACL in game 1 of that season. It was also TT's first season and he needed to set an example.

A lot will have to do with whether Finley is a UFA or RFA, but I can see TT slapping him with the highest tag available. I know I would.

[Smidgeon]

Quarless didn't offer much in return? Personally, I think Quarless offered a lot as a rookie TE. His production was way higher than Finley's rookie year, and he worked hard and didn't complain. What's not to like about this kid going forward? I'm excited about the future of this position.

[get louder at lambeau]

I thought about him, but he was damaged goods. Walker began screaming for a new deal with two years left on his rookie deal, then proceded to blow out his ACL in game 1 of that season. It was also TT's first season and he needed to set an example.

A lot will have to do with whether Finley is a UFA or RFA, but I can see TT slapping him with the highest tag available. I know I would.

Yeah, there are differences, but there are also a LOT of similarities- both are/were the best weapon in the passing game, both have/had shown relatively short bursts of outstanding production, both are/were thought to have big egos, both seem to like to talk a little too much, both had their seasons cut short by torn knee ligaments right when they were supposed to be the focus of the offense...

We'll see what happens. Hopefully Finely is less of a money-hungry bitch than Walker, and doesn't get all disgruntled and whiny.

[get louder at lambeau]

Quarless didn't offer much in return? Personally, I think Quarless offered a lot as a rookie TE. His production was way higher than Finley's rookie year, and he worked hard and didn't complain. What's not to like about this kid going forward?

His hands. Kid dropped a lot of balls this year.

[Smidgeon]

His hands. Kid dropped a lot of balls this year.

So did Finley his rookie year. Especially jump balls in the endzone. But I don't have the impression Quarless dropped a lot. When I think about drops, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Donald Driver and a couple big ones by Jennings are what comes to mind. I don't doubt that Quarless dropped his share, but this team in general dropped quite a few.

[RashanGary]

So did Finley his rookie year. Especially jump balls in the endzone. But I don't have the impression Quarless dropped a lot. When I think about drops, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Donald Driver and a couple big ones by Jennings are what comes to mind. I don't doubt that Quarless dropped his share, but this team in general dropped quite a few.

Finley had 6 receptions and 1 TD his rookie year.

[MadScientist]

The biggest challenge in signing Finley is the health unknown. If he hadn't been injured, TT would have probably tried re-signing him before the CBA ended in order to take advantage of the 'take cash now while you still can' pressure. Now they have to wait to see how well he recovers, and by that time Finley may well decide that it is better to wait for FA (or the franchise tag / holdout route if there is a franchise tag next year).

[Fritz]

That's what I had thought too. I was sure he never fumbled. And thanks to sharpe, it appears he didn't. Poor writing.

I get a kick out of the comment I read that said Starks ran too high. I really don't care how someone runs if they are effective.

I did not know that James Starks was stoned when he ran. Does this mean if he's only a little bit high he'd be okay when he runs?

[Patler]

Tight end - its nice to have a good one; but rumor has it that you can win a Super Bowl with an insignificant rookie and a washed up vet playing the position!

[Guiness]

Is this Finley's contract year?

If so, I would expect the Packers to wait and see if he comes back strong, then try and extend him during the year. He'd get him money a little early, and have insurance against injury. The Packers would get a discount for that.

I can't see them spending a first (or second) day pick on a TE. They've got Quarless and Crabtree, both of whom have shown something.

[Lurker64]

Tight end - its nice to have a good one; but rumor has it that you can win a Super Bowl with an insignificant rookie and a washed up vet playing the position!

And Tom Crabtree as a provocateur. Honestly, of all the TEs on the Packers I think he had the biggest role in the superbowl, what with a memorable crushing borderline-illegal block to spring Starks on one of his longer runs, and in drawing the 15-yard penalty on the ultimate kickoff.

[get louder at lambeau]

Tight end - its nice to have a good one; but rumor has it that you can win a Super Bowl with an insignificant rookie and a washed up vet playing the position!

Can you imagine Rodgers directing McCarthy's multiple offense with a two TE set with two Finley types though? See what the D gives, then do anything from audibling both out wide for a pseudo 4 wide, or keep both in to block, or anything in between. They could take advantage of any defensive alignment.

[Smidgeon]

Finley had 6 receptions and 1 TD his rookie year.

I was referring to Finley's drops his rookie year.

[Tarlam!]

Tight end - its nice to have a good one; but rumor has it that you can win a Super Bowl with an insignificant rookie and a washed up vet playing the position!

Without doubt, but Finley is more than just a TE. He's a potential game changer. He'll probably be a superstar. He's more like a "great to have". There's no denying your point, obviously.

[Patler]

Can you imagine Rodgers directing McCarthy's multiple offense with a two TE set with two Finley types though? See what the D gives, then do anything from audibling both out wide for a pseudo 4 wide, or keep both in to block, or anything in between. They could take advantage of any defensive alignment.

I would rather see them line up with a back who can do it all, like Ahman Green or Bennett, and I think Starks might be that guy. He was a decent receiver in college, anyway. If he can learn to block, too. Three WRs, Finley and a back that can run, catch or protect if he has to.......!

[bobblehead]

I thought of a good example of a young player not getting re-signed by Thompson, that could apply if Finley turns into a diva- Javon Walker.

Not at all the same. JWalk was holding out with 2 full years left on his rookie deal. Its not like he played out his deal, was studly, and TT let him go. Not the case at all. If JFinley plays lights out this season and stays healthy, there is exactly ZERO chance that TT doesn't offer him a blockbuster deal. Only chance at losing him is if Finley is hell bent on testing the market.

[get louder at lambeau]

I would rather see them line up with a back who can do it all, like Ahman Green or Bennett, and I think Starks might be that guy. He was a decent receiver in college, anyway. If he can learn to block, too. Three WRs, Finley and a back that can run, catch or protect if he has to.......!

Maybe we could have both! Change that three WRs to two WRs, two great TEs who can offer more flexibility in audibling for Rodgers, and that kind of a back. If we had two Finely types, who needs three WRs? The TEs can split wide, run patterns out of their traditional spots or block. Just seems like more flexibility for McCarthy's "multiple offense", and we have a smart QB to put them in the best matchup possible at the line.

[Tarlam!]

(....)Just seems like more flexibility for McCarthy's "multiple offense", and we have a smart QB to put them in the best matchup possible at the line.

I like this idea. A lot! Who recently called the offense "Swiss-Army" offense? Now you're talkin', BABY!

[Deputy Nutz]

Finely is the starter so I don't exactly see a need there, maybe some depth with potential, another Quarles. A high ceiling type but might also burn out quickly. As far as running back goes, same thing. Grant is the starter with Starks as the key back up. Starks proved he can handle the load, but most likely will never be a dynamic runner. If Ingram drops to 32, absolutely the Packers should draft him best value on the board, but other than that the Packers need to look at getting another Jackson. A good third down back that picks up blitz schemes and can also return kicks.

[get louder at lambeau]

Not at all the same. JWalk was holding out with 2 full years left on his rookie deal. Its not like he played out his deal, was studly, and TT let him go. Not the case at all. If JFinley plays lights out this season and stays healthy, there is exactly ZERO chance that TT doesn't offer him a blockbuster deal. Only chance at losing him is if Finley is hell bent on testing the market.

I said "that could apply if Finley turns into a diva," bobblehead. I never said they were the same exact guy, in the same exact situation. Obviously they are not. There are a LOT of similarities, however.

Finley is about to start his fourth year. That's the year Walker got all bitchy about his contract. We all hope Finley takes a very different approach to things than dumbass Walker did. So far, Finley has shown that he's not afraid to bitch publicly twice in his short pro career- once about how he was being used in the game, and once about not being in the Super Bowl team pic.

[RashanGary]

I said "that could apply if Finley turns into a diva," bobblehead. I never said they were the same exact guy, in the same exact situation. Obviously they are not. There are a LOT of similarities, however.

Finley is about to start his fourth year. That's the year Walker got all bitchy about his contract. We all hope Finley takes a very different approach to things than dumbass Walker did. So far, Finley has shown that he's not afraid to bitch publicly twice in his short pro career- once about how he was being used in the game, and once about not being in the Super Bowl team pic.

You're making sense. Is it JWalk 2.0? We have no clue yet, but Finley scares ya a little with his personality. The only jersey I own is a Finley. I'm sort of betting on him, but he could turn into a major headache.

[Patler]

Maybe we could have both! Change that three WRs to two WRs, two great TEs who can offer more flexibility in audibling for Rodgers, and that kind of a back. If we had two Finely types, who needs three WRs? The TEs can split wide, run patterns out of their traditional spots or block. Just seems like more flexibility for McCarthy's "multiple offense", and we have a smart QB to put them in the best matchup possible at the line.

MM likes to throw deep, AR throws deep balls very well. I'll take the deep versatility provided by having an extra big WR (like Nelson) over the second TE.

[get louder at lambeau]

MM likes to throw deep, AR throws deep balls very well. I'll take the deep versatility provided by having an extra big WR (like Nelson) over the second TE.

Fair enough. I'd still have two WRs out there to stretch the field deep though, and two TEs who will take what the defense gives, even if it's opening up a hole for that RB you wanted.

[RashanGary]

MM likes to throw deep, AR throws deep balls very well. I'll take the deep versatility provided by having an extra big WR (like Nelson) over the second TE.

Nelson is a heck of a blocker too. I notice it a little bit, but I've heard the coaches talk about it so that's why I say that. The way he played down the stretch (playoffs/SB) I think he'll be a staple of the offense next year and for years to come. When we first drafted him, I gave the Hines Ward comparison. I see it more now. He can be a heck of a possession WR, he's fast enough to get deep and he's tough as nails.

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119805974.html

[MadScientist]

Not much to talk about with QB's. The loss of the off season hurts Graham Harrell, as he has the biggest need for quarterback school. It would have been nice for MM and TT to really have a good idea if Graham could grow into the role of backup before they watch Flynn fly somewhere else.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe we could have both! Change that three WRs to two WRs, two great TEs who can offer more flexibility in audibling for Rodgers, and that kind of a back. If we had two Finely types, who needs three WRs? The TEs can split wide, run patterns out of their traditional spots or block. Just seems like more flexibility for McCarthy's "multiple offense", and we have a smart QB to put them in the best matchup possible at the line.

No reason to drop the 3-wide package, it would be that much more powerful if teams had to guard against both three WRs and TEs. Each brings different problems for the defense.

[sharpe1027]

So did Finley his rookie year. Especially jump balls in the endzone. But I don't have the impression Quarless dropped a lot. When I think about drops, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Donald Driver and a couple big ones by Jennings are what comes to mind. I don't doubt that Quarless dropped his share, but this team in general dropped quite a few.

Quarless has combine numbers and had decent stats for a rookie (although his stats might not be that impressive when you consider how many downs he played). To me, however, he still doesn't compare to Finley. I do not see the body awareness and fluidity either in his routes or when catching the ball. I am sure he can improve upon that with another season under his belt, but Finley looked like a WR even when he was making mental mistakes. I am not saying Quarless can't develop into a really good TE and that Finley won't turn out to be TO-2.0, but I don't see Finley-caliber ability in Quarless.

[Tarlam!]

No reason to drop the 3-wide package, it would be that much more powerful if teams had to guard against both three WRs and TEs. Each brings different problems for the defense.

Except there's an empty backfield taking away the play action. Eventually, teams will figure out how to cover 5 receivers...

[sharpe1027]

Except there's an empty backfield taking away the play action. Eventually, teams will figure out how to cover 5 receivers...

Eventually teams will figure out how to cover multiple TEs. :) I am not advocating going empty on every play...

[Fritz]

The biggest question about Finley - bigger, it seems, than whether he's injury-prone, if there is such a thing - is the character question. Is he going to be a diva who talks his way out of Green Bay? Or will he continue to mature and tone it down and become the best tight end to ever put on a Green Bay uniform?

[Smidgeon]

Quarless has combine numbers and had decent stats for a rookie (although his stats might not be that impressive when you consider how many downs he played). To me, however, he still doesn't compare to Finley. I do not see the body awareness and fluidity either in his routes or when catching the ball. I am sure he can improve upon that with another season under his belt, but Finley looked like a WR even when he was making mental mistakes. I am not saying Quarless can't develop into a really good TE and that Finley won't turn out to be TO-2.0, but I don't see Finley-caliber ability in Quarless.

I'm not saying that Quarless will be Finley. Finley is immensely more talented. I'm just trying to argue against the people who were disappointed by Quarless' season by pointing out that it was relatively successful for a rookie TE.

[sharpe1027]

I'm not saying that Quarless will be Finley. Finley is immensely more talented. I'm just trying to argue against the people who were disappointed by Quarless' season by pointing out that it was relatively successful for a rookie TE.

I can agree with that. He was a rookie and a 5th round pick at that. He did a pretty good job all things considered.

[Tarlam!]

I can agree with that. He was a rookie and a 5th round pick at that. He did a pretty good job all things considered.

Yeah, but guys like Quarless are the biggest losers in this lockout. Finley made huge strides in OTAs between rookie and sophomore seasons. From what I've read, that's the most impostant off-season for NFL players. Starks and Shields? Bulaga? QB Harrell?? It's too bad for all these guys....

[Smidgeon]

Yeah, but guys like Quarless are the biggest losers in this lockout. Finley made huge strides in OTAs between rookie and sophomore seasons. From what I've read, that's the most impostant off-season for NFL players. Starks and Shields? Bulaga? QB Harrell?? It's too bad for all these guys....

Agree. But I also think those with internal drive (Shields jumps out to me) will do whatever they can to overcome that hurdle.

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119877919.html

[K-town]

Maybe we can continue with the 3-fullback backfield, with this guy instead of the Mighty Quinn?
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Yale-FB-Shane-Bannon-visiting-the-Packers.html

[Guiness]

Maybe we can continue with the 3-fullback backfield, with this guy instead of the Mighty Quinn?
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Yale-FB-Shane-Bannon-visiting-the-Packers.html

How do player visits work? I guess they're not under contract, so allowed? Packers would just pay the expenses?

[Patler]

Maybe we can continue with the 3-fullback backfield, with this guy instead of the Mighty Quinn?
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Yale-FB-Shane-Bannon-visiting-the-Packers.html

Probably instead of Hall, who is out injured about 25% of the time, and has an expired contract.

[mraynrand]

Probably instead of Hall, who is out injured about 25% of the time, and has an expired contract.

Ah, but what about his critical contribution to special teams??

[Patler]

Ah, but what about his critical contribution to special teams??

For 12 games a year?

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119942949.html

[RashanGary]

Danny Watkins would be a great pick at #32.

Bulaga, Wakins, Sitton would all be long term locks
Wells is a short term lock
Colledge is a short term fix if you need him

Assuming we picked Watkins, we'd be a sure bet to have 5 guys good enough.

Lang
Newhouse
McDonald
Clifton

Are all question marks. Colledge is not a sure bet to be on the team, but he's there if the coaches don't think they have anything better. I would not trust Clifton. If he starts, they better have Bulaga trained and someone else ready at RT


If we draft a good OL, we look pretty good going forward. If not, we better hope they know something about Lang, McDonald, Newhouse and Clifton that we don't. OL is the biggest potential disaster on our team.

[Bretsky]

I've been reading a lot about these OL and I'm getting on board with Wakins and Derek Sherrod, who I think is a future LT. I'm not sure Wakins is a good value at 32 though. It's a great yr for TT to trade down and get one of these guys if a surprise does not fall into his lap

[Bretsky]

I do think we're ok with Clifton next year; dude is a gamer and that showed in the last two playoff games. Stellar showing in the SB. But it's time to groom his replacement so we're ready for the yr after next

[Lurker64]

I'm a big fan of Ijalana. I would be very happy with him at #32. Not an NFL LT, but he's a LG or an RT.

[Bretsky]

My gut tells me we got our RT next year

I'm gettting addicted to NFL Path to the Draft Shows. Love listening to Charlie Casserly

They are reporting the Ravens, Packers, and Patriots are all looking at Brooks Reed very closely at the end of round one

[Bretsky]

I'm a big fan of Ijalana. I would be very happy with him at #32. Not an NFL LT, but he's a LG or an RT.


I've watched highlights of him and his look reaks of being a Packer.

[RashanGary]

I'm a big fan of Ijalana. I would be very happy with him at #32. Not an NFL LT, but he's a LG or an RT.

It's nice that he's not 26 years old. Great player against mid-level competition. Very good athlete. Very experienced. He's a safe bet to be good. I have no problem with him what-so-ever. He's more a guard than a tackle. The thing that stinks, we got the same type of player (Josh Sitton) in the 4th round a couple years ago. At this point in the draft, a weak draft, I guess I'd be ecstatic with a top tier guard/RT.

OL
OLB

Would be my favorite two choices.

[Bretsky]

SECONDARY

Need level: Low

On the roster: CB Tramon Williams, CB Charles Woodson, S Nick Collins, S Morgan Burnett, CB Sam Shields, S Charlie Peprah, CB/S Jarrett Bush, CB Pat Lee, CB Brandon Underwood, CB Josh Gordy, S Anthony Smith, S Michael Greco, S Anthony Levine, and CB Josh Bell.

Free agents: S Atari Bigby.

Outlook: The emergence of Shields as a starting-caliber player changed everything for this unit. Woodson is starting to show age on the outside and needs to be in the slot where he can be used more like a safety. Shields has allowed that and also guarantees the team has two young corners in place for at least three more seasons. Behind Shields, Lee and Underwood haven’t grown the way the coaches hoped and could be replaced if a corner is drafted. Lee is a little ahead of Underwood because of experience, but if Underwood could get his act together he could work his way into the dime. Gordy is an interesting prospect because of his speed and could get a look, too. The coaches were extremely high on Burnett before he tore his ACL and will give him every chance to win the starting spot over the reliable Peprah. Burnett has outstanding ball skills, but you never know how an ACL will affect a player’s ability. Whatever the case, they're stocked at the position with Peprah, Smith, Bush and others. There’s almost no chance Bigby will be back.

Eye-opening stat: The secondary committed 18 coverage penalties in 20 games, an average of just under one per game.

What’s available: There are a lot of guys with glaring warts that make taking a cornerback in this draft a risk. The top two corners, LSU’s Patrick Peterson and Nebraska’s Prince Amukamara, will be gone early and the next most talented, Colorado’s Jimmy Smith, might be off GM Ted Thompson’s board for character issues. In the second, Buffalo’s Josh Thomas would fit the height/speed requirements the Packers have and converted running back Curtis Marsh of Utah St., who doubles as a kick returner, might be an option at the end of the fourth. Later, South Carolina speedster Chris Culliver could be considered both for his Shields-like potential and return ability.

Bottom line: This might not be the time or place to address the eventual replacement for Woodson. There’s always reason to add cornerbacks and Thompson could do that late, but there’s no sense taking any gambles or over-drafting because of need. The safety position probably won't be addressed.

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119984204.html

[packrulz]

Draft Might Have Underrated Depth At Tackle
Posted by Pete Dougherty April 15th, 2011, 2:22 pm
One analyst says this year’s draft has underrated depth at one of the Packers’ biggest positions of need, tackle.
Five tackles appear likely to be selected in the first round, and for now at least, there’s a pretty good chance all five will be gone by the time the Packers select at No. 32 overall: USC’s Tyron Smith, Boston College’s Anthony Castonzo, Wisconsin’s Gabe Carimi, Colorado’s Nate Solder and Mississippi State’s Derek Sherrod.
But Rob Rang of CBSsports.com likes a small group of tackle prospects behind them: Alabama’s Carpenter, Miami’s Orlando Franklin, TCU’s Marcus Cannon, Florida’s Marcus Gilbert and Indiana’s Nate Brewer. They are second to early third round prospects.
And ranked near or just behind them, Rang also likes the long-term prospects of several tackles.
“Though level-of-competition questions abound, no one dominated their opponents as consistently as Villanova’s Ben Ijalana throughout his respective career,” Rang wrote. “There are a lot of teams very high on the long-term upside of lower level FBS prospects Derek Newton (Arkansas State), Jah Reid (Central Florida), Willie Smith (East Carolina), Byron Stingily (Louisville) and Byron Bell (New Mexico).”
Chad Clifton returns as the Packers’ left tackle after a good finish to the 2010 season, but the Packers have to prepare for when he’s no longer a starting quality tackle. He’ll be 35 this summer and has history of knee and ankle problems.