Second Draft Final Round: (#1) Reed vs. (#2) Ijalana

[Lurker64]

In our mock second draft ( http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...k-second-draft ) we decided that rather than a free for all poll, we would try a bracket. This is the finale. The poll will run for three days, finishing up on the eve of the actual draft


Let's meet the prospects (All Scouting reports are shamelessly cribbed from Wes Bunting at the excellent National Football Post).

Brooks Reed OLB, Arizona
6'2 1/2", 263 lbs.
http://www.scardraft.com/images/BrooksReed.jpg

An undersized pass rusher who plays 100 miles per hour on every down. Exhibits a good first step off the snap, gets off the ball quickly, keeps his pad level down and is consistently one of the first defensive linemen moving off the line. Has the ability to threaten the edge and get into offensive tackles quickly. Looks comfortable keeping his pad level down into contact, extending his arms and can create a bit of a surge on his bull rush. Plays with good leverage and can be a bit more physical than his frame would suggest.

However, lacks balance and body control at this stage and really struggles when asked to change directions, keep his feet under him and break off any type of counter move. Also seems to routinely overextend into blocks and doesn't have the type of coordination to drop his shoulder and really accelerate around the corner. Is a real linear pass rusher at this stage who hasn't figured out how to maintain his balance off his initial rush.

Isn't a guy who can stack and shed vs. the run game at the next level, but does play with good leverage when run at and will chase the football in pursuit. Works very hard, fights and scraps for every inch and can work his way into the backfield toward the football, but fails to disengage consistently.

Impression: Plays hard and at least has the explosion to be a threat as a pass rusher at the next level. However, his ability to develop a counter move and become more than a one-trick pony off the edge is key. Looks more like a nickel rusher or potential 3-4 OLB prospect who I would take a shot on because of his initial burst and overall work rate on the field.


Ben Ijalana OT, Villanova
6'3 5/8", 317 lbs.
http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/Bl4ckRa1n/Ben-Ijalana1.jpg

A gifted athlete for his size who displays good range off the edge in pass protection and has the kind of athleticism needed to play on the left side in the NFL. Does a nice job quickly changing directions and redirecting in space, displays a lateral burst when asked to mirror one-on-one and exhibits the range to reach the corner. Is still raw with his footwork and too often stands upright initially off the snap and will get overextended on his kick-slide. However, he's a long-armed kid who sticks to blocks well once he gets a hold of defenders and is a really heavy-handed kid. Possesses a good first step off the snap and is able to consistently get around defenders and seal, and has improved getting off the snap count on time as a senior.

Has really improved his overall pad level as a run blocker as a senior. Does a much better job sitting into his stance, firing off the football low, extending his arms and keeping his feet under him through contact. A downright dominant in-line guy at the I-AA level who can routinely get under defenders, lock out and drive linemen off the ball. Is also very coordinated on the move, possesses good range when asked to pull, step and seal quickly inside and does a great job breaking down and eliminating a defender at the second level.

Impression: A downright dominant small-school blocker with a great physical/athletic skill set. Needs to continue to improve his footwork on his kick-slide, but he's a gifted enough athlete to pick that up quickly. The biggest question for Ijalana is, where does he best fit? He's long enough to play left tackle and physical enough to play guard. Either way he's one of the better offensive line prospects at this stage and in my view you let him get comfortable at guard in year one and see if he can make the move to left tackle in year two.

[BZnDallas]

i voted Ben Ijalana... as much as i would love to have a better pass rusher opposite CMIII, Ijalana can help solidify the offensive line... btwn Ijalana, Bulaga, Sitton, and Lang... holy shit... really?? that would be a nasty offensive line to go with a nasty offense... i'm just saying...

[Tarlam!]

i voted Ben Ijalana... as much as i would love to have a better pass rusher opposite CMIII, Ijalana can help solidify the offensive line

This. I feel the exact same way. Regardless of whether or not TT goes OL in the 1st, I just hope he has the ability to keep Sitton in Green and Gold for a long time to come. The guy's fantastic, IMHO. Between him and Bulaga, the foundations for a strengthed changing of the guard at OL are laid.

[Bretsky]

Brooks Reed in demand, had over 12 visits and workouts
The National Football Post
Apr 20, 5:01 pm EDT


tweet22EmailPrintUniversity of Arizona hybrid outside linebacker defensive end Brooks Reed visited the Indianapolis Colts last weekend and has also visited the Atlanta Falcons, Washington Redskins, Arizona Cardinals and the Buffalo Bills, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.


Reed is regarded as a hot player in NFL scouting circles and has worked out for several position coaches and team executives, including the Minnesota Vikings, Baltimore Ravens, New England Patriots, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Jets, Cleveland Browns and the Miami Dolphins.


He had other undisclosed private workouts as well.


Initially regarded as a second-round draft selection, Reed is is in the first-round conversation and ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay has him going 20th overall in his latest mock draft.


Reed has been drawing comparisons to Packers star linebacker Clay Matthews(notes) for reasons beyond having long blond hair.


Reed had the top 10-yard split among all defensive linemen with a 1.54 clocking. Like Matthews, he's also regarded as a former Pac-10 player who moved up considerably as a senior.


Reed had a sprained ankle during his junior season.


An AFC West scout said he significantly upgraded his grade on Reed after watching him play against Iowa in person.


The nearly 6-foot-3, 263-pounder recorded 47 tackles, 6 1/2 sacks and 10 tackles for losses last season.


For his career, the All-Pac 10 Conference selection registered 17 sacks.


At the NFL scouting combine, Reed ran the 40-yard dash in 4.65 seconds, bench pressed 225 pounds 30 times. He also posted a 30 1/2 inch vertical leap and a 9-5 broad jump.


Reed posted 114 career tackles, 25 for losses and five pass deflections.


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[get louder at lambeau]

I voted for the OL, just because of need. I'd be happy with either, but I think keeping Rodgers from getting smashed around should be priority #1, and would love to see them get a prospect with the versatility to play guard or tackle.

With Zombo, Walden, and Jones, we aren't really thin at OLB. It would be nice to improve at the top of the depth chart across from Matthews, but we do have some young depth that has played well.

[3irty1]

This Reed stuff is getting out of hand. What do people see that they think he's worth a 1st or 2nd round pick? IMO Frank Zombo is as good of a player.

[King Friday]

I'd take Ijalana. He's a more polished prospect IMO and ready to contribe from day one...and OL is a slightly bigger area of need too.

Reed is intriguing, and he should send a nice present to Clay when he gets picked in the top 20 (since his demand is largely due to the impact Clay had and their similarities) but I think so much of Clay's play happens between his ears and often gets overlooked by his athleticism. The kid is football smart because he comes from a historic NFL family and grew up around the game. He caused the fumble in the Super Bowl by KNOWING what play was going to be run and setting up the defense for it.

Somehow, I don't see Reed having the same football IQ...even if all the other measureables stack up. He's not worth a 1st rounder IMO. He may become a very good player, but probably not a Claymaker.

[MadScientist]

Brooks Reed sounds more like KGB than CM3. The description makes me leery of making him a 3-4 OLB, especially this quote:

However, lacks balance and body control at this stage and really struggles when asked to change directions, keep his feet under him and break off any type of counter move
Much rather the OL guy instead.

[get louder at lambeau]

This Reed stuff is getting out of hand. What do people see that they think he's worth a 1st or 2nd round pick? IMO Frank Zombo is as good of a player.

He's a huge, strong, quick OLB pass rushing prospect. What's not to like about that? He's bigger, faster, and stronger than Zombo, he looks like a runaway truck chasing QBs in his YouTube highlights, and he has purdy hair like CMIII. Pass rushers are a main target in the first couple rounds every year, so why is it so surprising?

[Fritz]

Offensive line. Gotta keep Rodgers upright and healthy. You need to protect him.

[Deputy Nutz]

You're going to reach for a player with a 32nd pick unless a certain few players drop. Drafts never go the way they are predicted so who knows. Take the most talented player, he can fit in some where at this point, so I go for Reed.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Ijalana, only for the fact that some relatively good OLB options should be available when we pick at the end of the 2nd. The same value probably won't be there for OL. But then again, who knows how the dominos will fall?

[Bretsky]

This Reed stuff is getting out of hand. What do people see that they think he's worth a 1st or 2nd round pick? IMO Frank Zombo is as good of a player.


And what would you base that on ?????

Zombo was considered a guy who was "maybe" worth a late round draft grade if he was going to get drafted at all. Reed has played and proven himself to be able to excel against real time competition at a major college. Every scouting report will note he has a great attitude and an incredibly hard worker. Nearly every mock out there has him going between 15-60.

Frank Zombo didn't get a grade like that by any scout in the NFL and it was apparent because he wasn't drafted. He was a feel good story and that is good to see. but

I don't get any comparison to Frank Zombo and I'm curious how one might even come up with that comparison unless they just want to downgrade Reed.

[Smeefers]

I would be so very surprised if we actually picked ijalana. He's projected to go late in the second round. At least with reed he's considered an early second rounder.

[RashanGary]

Both look like solid players. I hope it doesn't fall this way, but I voted Reed.

[Lurker64]

I would be so very surprised if we actually picked ijalana. He's projected to go late in the second round. At least with reed he's considered an early second rounder.

Depends on whose projections you read. Wes Bunting at NFP has him as the 27th best prospect and mocks him 32 to the Packers, while ESPN has him 58th and Rob Rang of NFLDS has him 57th.

Correspondingly, Rob Rang has Reed as the 39th best prospect, Wes Bunting has him as the 83rd best prospect, and ESPN has him 30th.

What doesn't matter so much is what the pundits think, but what the Packers think.

[Smeefers]

Depends on whose projections you read. Wes Bunting at NFP has him as the 27th best prospect and mocks him 32 to the Packers, while ESPN has him 58th and Rob Rang of NFLDS has him 57th.

Correspondingly, Rob Rang has Reed as the 39th best prospect, Wes Bunting has him as the 83rd best prospect, and ESPN has him 30th.

What doesn't matter so much is what the pundits think, but what the Packers think.

Oh, I agree that it doesn't matter what the pundits think. In TT I trust. For every JH he picks up, he gets 5 stud players. The problem is that it's such a crap shoot at 32.

[3irty1]

I'm not talking about Frank Zombo coming out of college but rather now. I think we can all agree that he was a steal as a UFA. Looking at Reeds workout numbers, he seems like a stud until you see his this:

30.5" vertical
9'05" broad jump

The jump is meant to test explosiveness. I think we can all agree that explosiveness is pretty important for a pass rusher and Brooks Reed has none. I Liken these numbers to a corner that ran the 40 yard dash in 5 seconds. Combine this with the concerns about him in coverage and I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over what we've got with Zombo and Jones. Not a major one anyways. I don't hate him as a prospect, I just feel that he's a 3rd or 4th rounder because of his kick ass motor. Lets not blow his college production out of proportion. He wasn't even the best DE on his team.

[Lurker64]

I'm not talking about Frank Zombo coming out of college but rather now. I think we can all agree that he was a steal as a UFA. Looking at Reeds workout numbers, he seems like a stud until you see his this:

30.5" vertical
9'05" broad jump

The jump is meant to test explosiveness. I think we can all agree that explosiveness is pretty important for a pass rusher and Brooks Reed has none. I Liken these numbers to a corner that ran the 40 yard dash in 5 seconds. Combine this with the concerns about him in coverage and I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over what we've got with Zombo and Jones. Not a major one anyways. I don't hate him as a prospect, I just feel that he's a 3rd or 4th rounder because of his kick ass motor. Lets not blow his college production out of proportion. He wasn't even the best DE on his team.

For reference.

Clay Matthews
Vert: 35 1/2"
Broad: 10'01"

Frank Zombo
Vert: 35 1/2"
Broad: 10'02"

Brad Jones:
Vert 33"
Broad: 09'11"

Brady Poppinga:
Vert: 35 1/2"
Broad: 09'02"

(Dontay Moch:
Vert: 42" (!)
Broad: 10'08" (!))

Though to be fair:

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete. I’m talking from experience. I was not the most athletic outside linebacker to play. But I was physical. I was hard-nosed. I had a motor. And I was smart. I studied. I knew where I needed to be and I knew where my help was. I knew what leverage to use. I knew on the other side what they were trying to do. You do have to have some things. You have to be able to back pedal and go backwards. You don’t have to great at it, but you have to have some functional ability. But the No. 1 thing is the physicality. You can get caught up in all the measurables—40 yard dash, broad jump, shuttle. It boils down to are they physical and are they relentless? Are they playing with passion?

[Smidgeon]

Oh, I agree that it doesn't matter what the pundits think. In TT I trust. For every Brian Brohm he picks up, he gets 5 stud players. The problem is that it's such a crap shoot at 32.

Fixed. Justin Harrell had talent.

[Bretsky]

I'm not talking about Frank Zombo coming out of college but rather now. I think we can all agree that he was a steal as a UFA. Looking at Reeds workout numbers, he seems like a stud until you see his this:

30.5" vertical
9'05" broad jump

The jump is meant to test explosiveness. I think we can all agree that explosiveness is pretty important for a pass rusher and Brooks Reed has none. I Liken these numbers to a corner that ran the 40 yard dash in 5 seconds. Combine this with the concerns about him in coverage and I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over what we've got with Zombo and Jones. Not a major one anyways. I don't hate him as a prospect, I just feel that he's a 3rd or 4th rounder because of his kick ass motor. Lets not blow his college production out of proportion. He wasn't even the best DE on his team.

So you are downgrading his status as somebody equivalent to Frank Zombo because of his jump ? That seems like you are using a small amount of the overall data on this player to equate him with somebody not drafted. Likewise, I could use some stats to claim his greatness. Brooks Reed had the fastest 10-yard split at the Combine out of all the defensive linemen, and I'm sure we can all agree that time is an important factor in looking at his ability as a pass rusher. His 1.54 was only 0.05 slower than Clay Matthews' amazing time.

Does it matter if he was the best DE on his team ? Was Clay Matthews the best LB for USC ? just saying............

Not saying he's going to be a star, but if a team nabbed him in round one or two I think they are getting a very worthy prospect with a lot more upside than Frank Zombo.

And looking at Kevin Green's quote..........that describes Reed

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete. I’m talking from experience. I was not the most athletic outside linebacker to play. But I was physical. I was hard-nosed. I had a motor. And I was smart. I studied. I knew where I needed to be and I knew where my help was. I knew what leverage to use. I knew on the other side what they were trying to do. You do have to have some things. You have to be able to back pedal and go backwards. You don’t have to great at it, but you have to have some functional ability. But the No. 1 thing is the physicality. You can get caught up in all the measurables—40 yard dash, broad jump, shuttle. It boils down to are they physical and are they relentless? Are they playing with passion?

[get louder at lambeau]

Seems strange that Reed could do so well at the 10 yard split time if he's not explosive. He obviously gets up to speed after a few steps better than most, but his first step doesn't launch him well in the jump measurements. Short legs maybe?

[3irty1]

So you are downgrading his status as somebody equivalent to Frank Zombo because of his jump ? That seems like you are using a small amount of the overall data on this player to equate him with somebody not drafted. Likewise, I could use some stats to claim his greatness. Brooks Reed had the fastest 10-yard split at the Combine out of all the defensive linemen, and I'm sure we can all agree that time is an important factor in looking at his ability as a pass rusher. His 1.54 was only 0.05 slower than Clay Matthews' amazing time.

Does it matter if he was the best DE on his team ? Was Clay Matthews the best LB for USC ? just saying............

Not saying he's going to be a star, but if a team nabbed him in round one or two I think they are getting a very worthy prospect with a lot more upside than Frank Zombo.

And looking at Kevin Green's quote..........that describes Reed

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete. I’m talking from experience. I was not the most athletic outside linebacker to play. But I was physical. I was hard-nosed. I had a motor. And I was smart. I studied. I knew where I needed to be and I knew where my help was. I knew what leverage to use. I knew on the other side what they were trying to do. You do have to have some things. You have to be able to back pedal and go backwards. You don’t have to great at it, but you have to have some functional ability. But the No. 1 thing is the physicality. You can get caught up in all the measurables—40 yard dash, broad jump, shuttle. It boils down to are they physical and are they relentless? Are they playing with passion?

First off, a few of the outside linebackers taken in the first couple rounds of this draft will not amount to Frank Zombo. Zombo isn't spectacular but he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses and will be very tough to keep out of the lineup.

Secondly, those jump numbers aren't just disappointing. For me they are deal breaking. You've obviously fallen in love with Reed, and maybe you're right and he'll be a star but I'm a big skeptic. Clay wasn't the best LB at USC but a prospect is of course a sum of their parts. Clay was a better athlete, much more explosive, had an equal motor, could already cover and had fantastic COD ability. His workouts ruled. He was also over a year younger when he came out.

Just look at Reeds game and who does he compare to? In reality the comparisons to clay end with the hair. Reed will win in the NFL with technique and motor because he won't have the explosion or bend to dominate the edge. The guys that have succeeded in his image are guys like Aaron Kampman and Tamba Hali. In other words, Reed should be a mid round project because he'll probably take a while to catch on.

[Bretsky]

There are a few obvious points I get out of this

You think Frank Zombo is way way better than I do and I hope you are right since he's on Green Bay.
I view him as a serviceable backup who can do alright if surrounded by a ton of talent.
I don't view him as being tough to keep out of the starting lineup.

I do agree there will be picks in the first couple rounds who will bust and be far worse than Zombo

You'll never find me arguing Reed is going to be a star; I think he'd be a good fit in our scheme and far better than Zombo IMO

[3irty1]

I've got my heart set on Justin Houston, if not him then I hope we can nab Dontay Moch at 64 or 96. Both of them are a completely different look than Zombo.

[Bretsky]

I'm not sure where Houston will go now that it's confirmed he failed the drug test. Many feel like he'd go top 20 and now most think he's out of round one. Most are projecting Moch to go top 45...........what a great year to trade down from that 32 spot, get about the same player, and pick up an extra pick

[RashanGary]

There are a handful of DT's who we could take too. Some are shortish, but McGinn has 13 DT's in his top 100, by far the most.

1st round picks maybe. . . (and some of these guys aren't perfect fits with height, but pass rush and run stopping is more important that height anyway)

Liuget
Wilkerson
Austin
Paea

Wilkerson and Austin have been projected to us. Paea and Liuget not really because they're shorter, but damn, those guys have some good things said about them. TT is known for the shocker pick.

[Smidgeon]

Is Ayers worth it? Will he last to #32?

[packrulz]

I voted Reed. For the record TT has drafted a lot of offensive lineman the past few years, Lang, Campbell, Newhouse, and McDonald to name a few are waiting in the wings for their shot, I'd like to give them a chance to see what we've got there. M3 reportedly was very pleased with both Newhouse and McDonald's development last year. Besides, look at all the teams that passed on Matthews, including "Hoody", Reed could end up being a steal, give me a hard worker over a workout warrior any day.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Reed racked up many of his sacks during much weaker competition. How will that translate to the NFL? I'm not sure, but that's something I've always looked for in prospects.

edit: I don't even know why I brought this up. I sometimes forget most of you are Big10(12?) fans and are used to weaker competition. :lol: