Grooming Rodgers Paved the Way

[Tarlam!]

I've been sayin' it all along. If Rodgers had gone to the Niners, I doubt he woulda fared any better than Alex Smith. Some of you, notabley Harv and JH vehemently disagree.

Well, think what you may about Kiper Jr., but he agrees with me:


The lockout itself could also make it difficult for a rookie to thrive this season, given the strong possibility of lost practice time and conversations with coaches, and ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said he doesn't see any of this year's quarterbacks as ready to contribute right away.

Green Bay carefully groomed Aaron Rodgers before Favre's noncommittal approach to his playing status prompted the Packers to give Rodgers the job in 2008. Now, they're the reigning champs.

"That's the way you should develop a quarterback," Kiper said. "What would have happened if he had gone to the Redskins? I don't think he'd have been Aaron Rodgers right now. He probably would have been kicked to the curb. But he developed. He changed his whole delivery, his whole mechanics of throwing the football. Now he's a potential Hall of Famer and has a Super Bowl ring."

I'm sure Kiper Jr. and I are not alone with our opinion.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f68a9a/article/postfavre-vikings-in-search-of-next-franchise-signalcaller

The story is about the Vikings struggles at QB going forward.

[Tarlam!]

In the interest of being balanced, the quote comes from the same article:


Green Bay's Rodgers model is ideal, but St. Louis took Bradford first last year and improved right along with the rookie. Ryan led Atlanta to the playoffs in 2008 as a first-time starter, as did Joe Flacco with Baltimore that year and Mark Sanchez for the New York Jets the following season.

Still, I vividly remember Rodgers crashing and burning in his first TC and ensuing pre-season. He was better in year 2, but still not ideal. He became solid in his 3rd season only. Personally, I put that down to taking on the coaching and maturing of both body and mind.

[channtheman]

Rodgers has always fought for everything he has had. From High School all the way to now in the pros he was underrated or "not good enough." I think he could have gone anywhere and through his own desire to prove everyone wrong would be great. Did sitting help him? Absolutely. Did it make him? No.

[Tarlam!]

I think he could have gone anywhere and through his own desire to prove everyone wrong would be great. Did sitting help him? Absolutely. Did it make him? No.

So, what you're saying is, Rodgers would have succeeded where Alex Smith and Jason Campbell failed? And it's your suggestion that he would have done this because of a chip on his shoulder? Well, that chip would not have been there if he were picked instead of Smith, right?

Certainly it would have been in Washington. But remember, that was Joe Gibbs' 2nd stint with the 'skins and he was nowhere near the HOF coach that won 3 SB in 10 years starting nearly a quarter of a century earlier. And let's not forget the circus tent environment that Dan Snyder facilitates. I have serious doubts that whole scenario would have been conducive to success for Rodgers coming out.

I'm delighted we'll never know for sure.

Too bad I didn't think to make this thread into a poll.

[swede]

Green Bay carefully groomed Aaron Rodgers before Favre's noncommittal approach to his playing status prompted the Packers to give Rodgers the job in 2008.

Huh...I had understood that Rodgers was given the job because Favre QUIT. It's as if the media plays telephone; their distortions amplify until three years later the one sentence summary is simply wrong.


All the rest of it was interesting, Tar. I think Aaron might have done better than Alex over time in SF, but there is no doubt in my mind that he landed in the right spot to allowing his wounded pride to slowly prepare for the time to exact revenge.

Now he can play angry until Colin Cowturd puts AR on his ten best active NFL quarterbacks list.

[Little Whiskey]

The lockout itself could also make it difficult for a rookie to thrive this season, given the strong possibility of lost practice time and conversations with coaches, and ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr.

I didn't realize Mel Kiper was that important to the NFL!

[Tarlam!]

I didn't realize Mel Kiper was that important to the NFL!

He's about as important as you and I, LW, but he earns his living with it. Apart from that, he's guessing 99% of the time, too. :grin:

[Scott Campbell]

There are the exceptions like Marino that just show up with enough talent to play well in the NFL. But for the most part I think NFL QB's are developed. And what other credentials did McCarthy have when he got hired out of obscurity other than as QB developer?

[RashanGary]

Marino played an instinctive, fling it around game. He'd see one on one and rifle one in there and he had guys who could catch. Rodgers is more of a tactician. He likes to throw to the open guy and he'll use his legs to buy extra time if he has to. It took him a little longer to get his game down, but I think his game is so advanced mentally that he has to.


McCarthy said at one point either last year or maybe even the year before, that Rodgers was running the most quarterback intensive game plans he's ever installed. So Rodgers last year was composing the offense to greater detail than Brett Favre ever did, and Favre played 20 years.

I think the amount of responsibility Rodgers has at the line is greatly undersold among Packer fans. He's in the Peyton Manning/Tom Brady class of field general.

[channtheman]

So, what you're saying is, Rodgers would have succeeded where Alex Smith and Jason Campbell failed? And it's your suggestion that he would have done this because of a chip on his shoulder? Well, that chip would not have been there if he were picked instead of Smith, right?

Certainly it would have been in Washington. But remember, that was Joe Gibbs' 2nd stint with the 'skins and he was nowhere near the HOF coach that won 3 SB in 10 years starting nearly a quarter of a century earlier. And let's not forget the circus tent environment that Dan Snyder facilitates. I have serious doubts that whole scenario would have been conducive to success for Rodgers coming out.

I'm delighted we'll never know for sure.

Too bad I didn't think to make this thread into a poll.

Had he been picked number 1, I don't think that would have wiped away all he had to prove in High School and College. I think he would have set out to prove that he was worthy of a number 1 pick in that instance. Thank goodness we can only speculate and what we do know that Rodgers is a top 5 QB in the league.

[Tarlam!]

I think the amount of responsibility Rodgers has at the line is greatly undersold among Packer fans. He's in the Peyton Manning/Tom Brady class of field general.

Really? That was maybe true in the beginning, but the writing was on the wall the season before last at the latest for me. I remember a lot of critique going M3's way as a HC, but not as a QB developer. I doubt that fans today don't see him as 3rd best QB in the league at worst.

Obviously he's made out of different stuff than, say Leinert, Smith, Campbell, Young and Russell. I think he's more resilient mentally and, barring injury, he might have eventually got it together. But he took a lot of sacks early - 3 against the 'boys. He broke a foot against the Pats, 'cause someone stepped on it.

In his first couple of seasons, his release was "awkward", he was somewhat big headed, he wasn't very strong physically and he was slow at reading where the bandit was coming from. His reluctance to throw it away and hold onto the ball in his 1st starting year nearly got him decapitated. Imagine him playing with those traits 3 years earlier. I doubt he would have survived.

[Tarlam!]

Thank goodness we can only speculate and what we do know that Rodgers is a top 5 QB in the league.
:glug::alc::bump:

[RashanGary]

I've heard it said Rodgers is different than Brady and Manning who are more field general types and call the game at the line types.

I disagree. I think AR is the field general/call the game at the line type, if you believe Mike McCarthy anyway.


Rodgers is more than a big arm and mobile legs. He imposes his will and attacks weaknesses the same way Brady, Manning and Brees do.

There are a bunch of people here who say that. There are some who don't.

Manning and Brady are in their mid 30's. Brees is over 30. Rodgers might be the best QB in teh game, not the 3rd best. Bring back Joe Montana and just because he's done it longer, doesn't mean he's better today. Today, arm, legs, head. . . AR might be the best in the game.

[channtheman]

Really? That was maybe true in the beginning, but the writing was on the wall the season before last at the latest for me. I remember a lot of critique going M3's way as a HC, but not as a QB developer. I doubt that fans today don't see him as 3rd best QB in the league at worst.

Obviously he's made out of different stuff than, say Leinert, Smith, Campbell, Young and Russell. I think he's more resilient mentally and, barring injury, he might have eventually got it together. But he took a lot of sacks early - 3 against the 'boys. He broke a foot against the Pats, 'cause someone stepped on it.

In his first couple of seasons, his release was "awkward", he was somewhat big headed, he wasn't very strong physically and he was slow at reading where the bandit was coming from. His reluctance to throw it away and hold onto the ball in his 1st starting year nearly got him decapitated. Imagine him playing with those traits 3 years earlier. I doubt he would have survived.

This is actually a pretty good point. I think it's been mentioned on here before as well. Rodgers might have broken down physically if he had been forced to start earlier in his career.

[Patler]

I really wonder how direct the correlation is between career failure/success and starting/sitting as a rookie. Those who advocate the conservative approach to QB development point to the failures who started as rookies, and those like Rodgers who sit the bench a few years, then succeed dramatically. They never consider the very many who play a lot as rookies and succeed, or those who sit the bench as rookies and still fail. The simple fact is a lot of QBs picked high in the draft fail, regardless; and some succeed, regardless.

Just off the top of my head, the following all played a lot as rookies and did/are doing quite well:

Elway
Marino
Aikman
Kelly
P. Manning
Roethlisberger
Flacco
Sanchez
Ryan
Bradford
Eli Manning (started about half the year)
Freeman (seems to be surviving)
McNabb (played a fair amount, started quite a few)
Bledsoe
Cutler (started since the last part of his rookie year)
Collins (not a great QB, but survived starting as a rookie)



First round draft picks who didn't play much early and still failed or are failing:
Quinn
Losman
Gossman (started only a few games his first 3 seasons)
Maddox
Druckenmiller
McQwire
Marinovich
Ware

For some, early failure might destroy their confidence.
For others, early failure can strengthen their resolve and preparation. The fear of failure can push them.

In the end, who knows which quarterbacks might have succeeded with more gradual exposure and which would have succeeded if thrown into the fire right away? It's just a guess. I suspect it depends on each QB's mental make-up more than anything.

[Patler]

In his first couple of seasons, his release was "awkward", he was somewhat big headed, he wasn't very strong physically and he was slow at reading where the bandit was coming from. His reluctance to throw it away and hold onto the ball in his 1st starting year nearly got him decapitated. Imagine him playing with those traits 3 years earlier. I doubt he would have survived.

The real question is, if he had started earlier in his carer, how quickly would he have accelerated his learning curve and changed those traits?

[Tarlam!]

The real question is, if he had started earlier in his carer, how quickly would he have accelerated his learning curve and changed those traits?

I haven't read anywhere that he's a slow leaner. Yet, it took him long enough. I believe there is one stat that he doesn't want to collect a lot of: INTs. Maybe watching #4 for so long molded him that way and caused him to play that way early. Dunno.

[Brandon494]

Mel Kiper agreeing with you pretty much just proves that your wrong :)

Let's not forget also that Rodgers was a 49ers fan growing up so there is no doubt in my mind he would have put in the same amount of work that he has with the Packers.

[Tarlam!]

Let's not forget also that Rodgers was a 49ers fan growing up so there is no doubt in my mind he would have put in the same amount of work that he has with the Packers.

See, people are getting me wrong; I am jn no way suggesting Rodgers wouldn't have been hungry for success, blue collar hard working, film junkie, coachable and smart.

[mraynrand]

I think McCarthy working with Rodgers made a huge difference. Thus the likely irony that had SF taken Rodgers, McCarthy would have been his guru. Given that Rodgers was not ready to play as a rookie, it's almost certain that SF would not have turned around sufficiently to prevent McCarthy from leaving to take the GB job (would ANYTHING have prevented McCarthy from leaving for the GB job?), so McCarthy would have ended up in GB with Favre and maybe some other backup QB, and Rodgers would be in SF, still trying to replace his Tedford form with something workable, and going through the SF coaching roulette.

Although I don't think Rodgers was quite ready before 2008, and he still had a lot of growing to do in 2008, some - like Cleft Crusty - thought Rodgers should have taken over after the Dallas game in 2007.

[Patler]

I haven't read anywhere that he's a slow leaner. Yet, it took him long enough. I believe there is one stat that he doesn't want to collect a lot of: INTs. Maybe watching #4 for so long molded him that way and caused him to play that way early. Dunno.

My point was that changing during practice is sometimes slower than changing out of necessity while playing. If he changed a lot from year 1 as the starter to year 2 as the starter, did it matter that it was his fourth year overall to his fifth year overall, or might it have occurred from his second year in the league to his third year in the league just as well? Might not his learning from his first three years sitting the bench been accelerated to his first year as a starter, even if it was his rookie year? If he had sat just one year, might his second year as the starter been the same as it was after sitting for three seasons?

I don't think any of us can answer those questions, nor can Kiper or anyone else.

In my opinion, too many QBs have been successful after playing a lot as rookies to argue that there is a significant correlation between failed careers and starting as a rookie.

[bobblehead]

I've been sayin' it all along. If Rodgers had gone to the Niners, I doubt he woulda fared any better than Alex Smith. Some of you, notabley Harv and JH vehemently disagree.

Well, think what you may about Kiper Jr., but he agrees with me:



I'm sure Kiper Jr. and I are not alone with our opinion.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f68a9a/article/postfavre-vikings-in-search-of-next-franchise-signalcaller

The story is about the Vikings struggles at QB going forward.

Ok, first, AR didn't "change his whole delivery, his whole mechanics of throwing the football". He changed his cradle and that was about it. His release point never moved. Second, I think the character of the individual is unquestionable and I think he would have developed no matter what, but having MM be his coach helped a ton....Smith had MM as well, and never developed (true, for only one season though). I think the MM factor is proven by Aaron Brooks having like ONE good season ever, and the development of Matt Flynn. I think Rodgers has proven his ability by succeeding at every level after working hard at it, with 2 completely different QB coaches in Tedford and MM as well.

Third, I think AR and BF have one thing in common (due to coaching probably). They both analyze a D and decide what is most likely to be the right place for the ball before its ever snapped. The biggest difference is that if it doesn't happen that way, BF throws it late over the middle and AR either scrambles or gets rid of it (something BF did early too). Lets see what happens if AR loses his mobility....will he start chucking it late over the middle (god I hope not).

Finally, I don't care why he is successful, I think any QB is going to struggle early if forced into the lineup so I advocate sitting them a year regardless if it helps or hurts development just because it reduces the beating they take.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, what you're saying is, Rodgers would have succeeded where Alex Smith and Jason Campbell failed?

Yes. I think Rodgers has way more talent and desire those two and most others. I think the scouts missed the boat. They do that sometimes. Otherwise, Bart Starr wouldn't have been a 15th round draft pick and Brett Favre wouldn't have been a second round pick. The things that are tough to scout (accuracy, toughness, leadership, character, confidence, football smarts, instincts, mental fortitude), Rodgers has them in spades. There have been plenty of QBs who have been put in the position that Smith and Campbell were put into and succeeded. There have been plenty of QBs who have been put in the position that Rodgers was put into and failed.

I also don't see in the quote where Kiper says that Alex Smith would be as successful as Rodgers if he'd gone to Green Bay or Rodgers would have failed had he gone to San Francisco. I don't think anybody feels like the way Rodgers was developed isn't ideal, but that's far from saying that Rodgers would have failed if he'd gone elsewhere or that Smith would have succeeded if he had gone to Green Bay. The fact that Smith wasn't successful last year with Frank Gore at RB, Vernon Davis at TE, Michael Crabtree at WR, and a load of high draft picks on the OL tells me that he only has himself to blame. Who knows though. Some guys are late bloomers. Maybe he comes on next year or maybe he goes elsewhere (less pressure) and succeeds. He'll get more chances.

[Lurker64]

I think the truth is that every incoming quarterback would be well-served by sitting and learning the NFL game for a little while, but that's not to say that all incoming quarterbacks will fail if thrown into the fire immediately. The guys who succeed probably succeed due to some combination of physical gifts, mental toughness, and drive to excel that would come through in either situation.

I just think a guy's cause is aided significantly by being able to sit. The danger is in starting a guy immediately is that a team who is under significant pressure from an impatient owner or fanbase can give up on a guy too quickly... but bad management decisions will hurt a team in any number of ways. The unavoidable danger of starting a guy immediately is that a lot of hot QB prospects come into the league being chronically immature and that ultimately ends their career. Who could say what might become of some historic QB busts were they granted humility by sitting for a couple of years.

[Tarlam!]

Just wanting it badly and having talent isn't all there is to it. If Rodgers had taken the punishment in his rookie year he'd have had a career start like the QB in Detroit. Stafford has talent and I bet he wants it, but he keeps getting broken. He may yet pan out.

I say that because Detroit finally has some decent management and they're improving. That's a far cry from what Rodgers would have faced in SFR or WAS. Rodgers was puny coming into the league. Thankfully he had 3 off seasons to mature, especially physically, before he got sacked 50 plus times.

[Deputy Nutz]

A couple of things fell into place for Rodgers because coming out he didn't have any tangibles that were considered outstanding. He had an average arm, limited mobility, and average pocket awarness. He played in a short drop system and had goofy mechanics.

He came to Green Bay and wasn't greeted with a lot of fan fair, Favre dominated the headlines and on the field. Rodgers wasn't going to see the field as long as Favre was upright or retired. Favre never missed a start in Green Bay, so it was pretty reasonable to figure that Rodgers never had the pressure to learn a game plan to start on Sundays. Rodgers was able to observe and absorb everything in his first 4 years in Green Bay.

Next he got a coach in McCarthy that knows how to coach QBs, Sherman hadn't a clue.

Rodger displayed an unbelievable work ethic that was never mentioned during or around the draft. Not saying he didn't have one, but he far exceeded expectations. His arm got stronger, he got faster and more mobile, and he got stronger and bigger. He studied his brains out.

He came in replacing a legend, but it wasn't as if expectations were through the roof for him, infact everyone hoped he would just have to be a game manager his first couple of years as a starter, instead he became a field general.

Rodgers wasn't ready to start his rookie year, heck he probably wasn't ready to start his 2nd season either. If he would have gone to San Fran he would have crashed and burned his first few years because they had nothing around him, and he wasn't physically ready to play in the NFL. Now he might have improved each year and at this point he could still be where he is at today as a player, but it didn't work out that way, he fell into a franchise that was perfect fit for him.

[Bossman641]

A couple of things fell into place for Rodgers because coming out he didn't have any tangibles that were considered outstanding. He had an average arm, limited mobility, and average pocket awarness. He played in a short drop system and had goofy mechanics.

He came to Green Bay and wasn't greeted with a lot of fan fair, Favre dominated the headlines and on the field. Rodgers wasn't going to see the field as long as Favre was upright or retired. Favre never missed a start in Green Bay, so it was pretty reasonable to figure that Rodgers never had the pressure to learn a game plan to start on Sundays. Rodgers was able to observe and absorb everything in his first 4 years in Green Bay.

Next he got a coach in McCarthy that knows how to coach QBs, Sherman hadn't a clue.

Rodger displayed an unbelievable work ethic that was never mentioned during or around the draft. Not saying he didn't have one, but he far exceeded expectations. His arm got stronger, he got faster and more mobile, and he got stronger and bigger. He studied his brains out.

He came in replacing a legend, but it wasn't as if expectations were through the roof for him, infact everyone hoped he would just have to be a game manager his first couple of years as a starter, instead he became a field general.

Rodgers wasn't ready to start his rookie year, heck he probably wasn't ready to start his 2nd season either. If he would have gone to San Fran he would have crashed and burned his first few years because they had nothing around him, and he wasn't physically ready to play in the NFL. Now he might have improved each year and at this point he could still be where he is at today as a player, but it didn't work out that way, he fell into a franchise that was perfect fit for him.

Agree with all your points except rodgers not having high expectations. After the year the packers and favre specifically had in 07 there was a ton of heat on rodgers.

[Scott Campbell]

My point was that changing during practice is sometimes slower than changing out of necessity while playing. If he changed a lot from year 1 as the starter to year 2 as the starter, did it matter that it was his fourth year overall to his fifth year overall, or might it have occurred from his second year in the league to his third year in the league just as well? Might not his learning from his first three years sitting the bench been accelerated to his first year as a starter, even if it was his rookie year? If he had sat just one year, might his second year as the starter been the same as it was after sitting for three seasons?

I don't think any of us can answer those questions, nor can Kiper or anyone else.

In my opinion, too many QBs have been successful after playing a lot as rookies to argue that there is a significant correlation between failed careers and starting as a rookie.


I've listened to accounts of his handling of the scout team, and think it may have helped his development. Guys thrown in as day 1 starters miss out on that.

[King Friday]

Rodgers >> Smith

That said, Rodgers wouldn't have won a title by now in SF. Success in the NFL does have a factor of luck in it...based on how you fit into your team's system and the talent of the players around you. Rodgers has elite talent and got lucky to be placed in a system where he has mostly everything he needs, coaching included. The same is true for Montana, Aikman, Favre, Manning, etc. They all have great talent, but none could have overcome playing in Oakland for the bulk of their careers to reach the heights they did elsewhere.

[RashanGary]

Agree with all your points except rodgers not having high expectations. After the year the packers and favre specifically had in 07 there was a ton of heat on rodgers.

I'm with you here. That was a great summary, with but one thing to add.

Aaron Rodgers was chosen over Brett Favre and people expected him to play like it. Rodgers overcame it so fast, it almost seems like it wasn't there, but after his first year, JS was writing about how he wasn't a winner, but rather a stat collector. I think Ron Wolf even had some remarks about it.

Even after his playoff loss where he threw for 450 yards and 4TD's, he was called not clutch by the JS.

2 years later he's champ and their chumps, but there was a time where the world was expected of Aaron Rodgers and that was before he even started his first game as a Packer.

Aaron took the final step into elite, now being talked about as the best QB in the game today. Brady and Manning are 35. Rodgers is the heir to the throne and reigning champ. He did it carrying the offense on his shoulders.

The Packers right now have true greatness at QB and all over their roster. Expect big things.

[Tarlam!]

Aaron Rodgers was chosen over Brett Favre and people expected him to play like it. Rodgers overcame it so fast, it almost seems like it wasn't there, but after his first year, JS was writing about how he wasn't a winner, but rather a stat collector. I think Ron Wolf even had some remarks about it.

2 years later he's champ and their chumps, but there was a time where the world was expected of Aaron Rodgers and that was before he even started his first game as a Packer.

I would add that there were two camps. People who sided with #4 generally propergated high expectations, yet at the same time couldn't or wouldn't acknowledge he could actually be the guy.

People who sided against #4 were hopeful, but generally more generous with their expectations.

[RashanGary]

Yep, Rodgers rose above all of that garbage, quietly; with class, dominance and dignity.

http://cdn04.okcdn.okmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/aaron_rodgers_Belt_feb7.jpg

Keys to his MVP Camaro in one hand, Vince Lombardi Trophy in the other, the championship belt on his shoulder and his teammate who also doubles as the best pass rusher in the NFL crowning him champ. Life is going alright for Aaron Rodgers. What you don't see in that picture is Brett Favre gagging, throat deep, on Aaron's superbowl MVP boner. He's trying find out what a superbowl MVP tastes like and he's about to get it.

Packers are getting along just fine too. Those two guys in that picture, two parts of the best 10 players in the NFL, both just entering the primes of their careers, yeah, they were drafted by Ted. That's Sir Ted, for those who forgot to check the trophy case at 1265. If you want to meet him, bring your vaseline and pucker up. The only way to get in the club now is to let Sir Ted show you the error of your ways with his Superbowl Champion GM boner. You better hurry to get yours. The championship boner is about to wear off and you'll have to wait till after the 2012 SB to go through the official membership ceremony.

[get louder at lambeau]

"Grooming Rodgers Paved The Way" makes it sound like McCarthy sat on him while Tom Clements shaved off his Fu Manchu.

[MadtownPacker]

That's Sir Ted, for those who forgot to check the trophy case at 1265. If you want to meet him, bring your vaseline and pucker up. The only way to get in the club now is to let Sir Ted show you the error of your ways with his Superbowl Champion GM boner. You better hurry to get yours. The championship boner is about to wear off and you'll have to wait till after the 2012 SB to go through the official membership ceremony.You where doing good until you started with this shit. So is anyone who questioned TT not able to share in "your" championship?? Thats what it sounds like to me and if so is a bitch ass way of thinking. The "I told you so" shit gets old but you have earned the right since you did call the ways things played out. The "anyone who ever questioned shit is not a fan" BS is crap and needs to stop. Im sick of it because I questioned TT at times (how many haven't?) but still watched the games and rooted for the Pack. Am I not a fan now? Do I need to look up the posts where you basically called M3 a moron and said Rodgers was fucking up? You know, right after the lions game when shit was at it worst season wise? You faith staggered at some point also. Dont fucking forget it.

[MadtownPacker]

As for the subject, I mostly agree with Nutz position. Except the expectations and fanfare part. The team was setting up for a run. If Rodgers hadnt excelled the run would not be happening. The fanfare part is also wrong because I recall Rodgers involved himself with team and public events almost right off thew bat. Good move. Everything worked out pretty damn good.

[Scott Campbell]

The "I told you so" shit gets old but you have earned the right since you did call the ways things played out.


I don't mind it.

And I don't think the fans that railed against Ted are any less Packer fans. But the fans that supported him probably feel an extra measure of satisfaction and enjoyment out of this Superbowl win. Some of us took a lot of arrows over the years for Ted, so I don't feel guilty at all about enjoying his success.

[swede]

There were too many rooting for Ted's moves to blow up in his face.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/tedfroblownup.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

For the record Justinharrell is hella cool. Anyone here would have a great time hanging out in GB with him like myself and others did.