Rating The Packers' Draft Choices 2011

[Tarlam!]

Overall, I wouldn't dare to pass negative judgement, because TT is da man! So, I'll be interested if any Rats come forward and call this draft class poor.

Things that make me go Hmmm:

Two TEs Well, if it's good enough for Hoody to grab two RBs..... I love TT's comment "(...) and Mike loves to have a lot of TEs"
No QB or Center It's pretty clear that Flynn is going nowhere and, I have to suspect Spitz is getting an offer.
No Shaky Smithson to be a return specialist Looks like cobb is the guy. They had Shaky in for a visit - he must not have impressed.
Trading so often and only gaining one additonal pick This I just don't get. The only reasoning I have is that he loves his roster and won't have to pay these guys as much to "compete" as camp bodies.

The last four picks might be JAGs, the first 5 might all become players. But, anytime you get two starters (Sherrod& Cobb) and three major contributers (Green, House and Williams), I call that a great draft. That's what I'm predicting.

I currently rate this class with an A, but we'll know in three years. :bclap:

[channtheman]

Just so we can see a list of the players we drafted.



1 Sherrod, Derek OL
2 Cobb, Randall WR
3 Green, Alex RB
4 House, Davon DB
5 Williams, D.J. TE
6 Schlauderaff, Caleb OL
6 Smith, D.J. LB
6 Elmore, Ricky DL
7 Taylor, Ryan TE
7 Guy, Lawrence DT

Feel free to edit this in to the first post Tar. :)

[channtheman]

I love the first pick as I think we now are looking pretty good on the line with Bulaga, Sherrod, Sitton, Lang/Colledge, and Wells. The Cobb pick replaces Jones who is gone and the Green pick replaces Jackson who will be gone. I also really like House and he will have a great opportunity to learn from some of the games best in Woodson and Tramon. D.J. Williams gets me more excited than Quarless did last year and may just push Quarless off the roster. You can never have too many O linemen so I don't have a problem with Schlauderaff. 2 of the last 3 picks address key defensive positions, though admittedly these guys may not even make the team. I am a little confused about the Taylor pick as we have tons of TE's already. I have to wonder if there was another player rated in the same tier at another position of more usefulness that we could have picked there, but I'm not going to complain about a 7th round pick on a TE.

Overall, I really like this draft. It will be fun to revisit it in 3 years and see how it pans out, but for now I'll give it a B+. If we get a 10 year left tackle out of Sherrod you can bump it up to an A.

[Smeefers]

Any time Ted stuffs an already full position (te's), I just can't bring myself to give him an A. We have 6, count em 6 te's. Imagine having 6 qbs. At some point, it just gets stupid.

[Lurker64]

Double Post.

[Lurker64]

I think the thing about drafting two TEs is that in the offseason Ted and Mike decided to re-invision the role of the fullback in McCarthy's otherwise multiple offense. Considering how many different things we want to be able to do when we're on offense we had a curious number of limited players on offense. Crabtree can block in-line but not out of the backfield and he's little threat to catch a pass. Quinn Johnson can block in the backfield, but can't catch or run with the ball. John Kuhn is the closest to complete of this set, but you can't exactly switch them wide. In otherwords, MM decided he would like to add an H-Back position to the offense. Specifically a player who can line up in the backfield to block or catch outlet passes, can be lined-up in line to block or run routes, and can be split out wide. The ability to motion between those roles adds to the multiplicity of the offense.

I would not be at all surprised if next year the roster has something like this:

TE/WR: Finley, Quarless
TE/H-Back: Williams, Taylor
Blocking Guy: Your favorite two of Crabtree, Kuhn, and Quinn Johnson (but not all three).

This allows us to keep one more player at a different roster spot, and makes us generally more versatile. We could honestly keep only one dedicated blocker in the H-Back/TE/Fullback mold and keep two more players at other positions. Taylor could be an easy cut, after all late round picks aren't guaranteed to make it on the superbowl champions, but I think Williams sticks as an H-Back and takes the partial place of one of the fullbacks. No way we go 4 TE and 3 FB again.

But last year having Crabtree, Kuhn, Hall, and Johnson on the roster was probably too many limited players for MM's taste.

[Tarlam!]

Sure, Smeefers and Lurker, but, can you guys rate the draft? And what do you make of all that trading??

[bobblehead]

Any time Ted stuffs an already full position (te's), I just can't bring myself to give him an A. We have 6, count em 6 te's. Imagine having 6 qbs. At some point, it just gets stupid.

But what if they were both much higher rated than any other player at the point you drafted them? I mean, what is the point of drafting an OLB who you don't believe should be drafted when you have a 5th round TE staring at you?

As far as grading it....well, lets not get too eager. I'll just trust TT's track record and say we will find a few players out of that group.

The reason TT loaded up at the bottom was so he could grab the guys he would otherwise sign as undrafted FA's....since no team can sign those players until the league and players settle. This way he can bring them in and look at them and start the training process. TT is prepping to play with a lot of filler players in case we have a similar situation to 1982 when some players returned, and some did not.

[Deputy Nutz]

Again, rating the draft only makes fans feel good when they go to their favorite internet site to see what Pete Prisco gives as a grade a day after the draft. Even though none of these players have even put on pads.

Trading back and only getting one extra pick is a bit confusing.

Packers are going into next season with 3 tight ends that will actually see time at tight end. I think a lot of the later round selection are to boost special teams

[packrulz]

I give this draft a B, since none of them will be starters right away. This draft is mostly for depth, which was the reason the Packers won the Super Bowl last year in spite of all the injuries. Cobb can return punts and kicks, can hold for kicks, can play WR, RB, and even QB. D. J. Williams is a Havner-type player, "I've moved all over the place," Williams said. "I did it for three years in college. I've played fullback, tight end, slot and outside at X or Z." Likewise for Ryan Taylor, "I honestly think (special teams) is a third of the game," said Taylor. "I take a lot of pride in it. I put a lot of stock in it. I won our special-teams award all four years." A tight end by trade, he also dabbled at linebacker. "Obviously, I need to work on it (blocking)," Taylor said. "But I think I've become a pretty good player. By no means was I any good at linebacker. It's not something I hang my hat on. But it helped my play on special teams."

[RashanGary]

Smeef, any draft with 2 TE's that makes it less likely for Quinn Johnson to stick around can't be an A ;)

[RashanGary]

I think the thing about drafting two TEs is that in the offseason Ted and Mike decided to re-invision the role of the fullback in McCarthy's otherwise multiple offense. Considering how many different things we want to be able to do when we're on offense we had a curious number of limited players on offense. Crabtree can block in-line but not out of the backfield and he's little threat to catch a pass. Quinn Johnson can block in the backfield, but can't catch or run with the ball. John Kuhn is the closest to complete of this set, but you can't exactly switch them wide. In otherwords, MM decided he would like to add an H-Back position to the offense. Specifically a player who can line up in the backfield to block or catch outlet passes, can be lined-up in line to block or run routes, and can be split out wide. The ability to motion between those roles adds to the multiplicity of the offense.

I would not be at all surprised if next year the roster has something like this:

TE/WR: Finley, Quarless
TE/H-Back: Williams, Taylor
Blocking Guy: Your favorite two of Crabtree, Kuhn, and Quinn Johnson (but not all three).

But last year having Crabtree, Kuhn, Hall, and Johnson on the roster was probably too many limited players for MM's taste.

I like this.

I'd go Finley/Williams/Quarless/Kuhn/Crabtree (I love his blocking. He can play TE/H-back/FB and I think he's a better blocker than Johnson)

Johnson (most incomplete football player on our team, literally does one thing) and Taylor (major project) would be on the bubble.

[Bretsky]

I thought I read in JS in TT's inteview he noted there were times a DL went right before him they really wanted so that was a bit trying. I think he mentioned Hampton. I give this draft a wait and see. TT gets a free pass from direct criticism since he won a SB. But I don't get all the trades and only acquiring one extra pick. It blows the theory that he wanted extra bodies with no FA's out of the water since he only accumulated one extra pick. It told me TT had all of these players rated about the same. If all of the above is true, I certainly would have rather seen him using some of those lase round picks to move up once or twice and get somebody he really wanted.

Overall I really liked the first five picks; if they turn out to be players the class could be an A just because of them, and if one of the last five jags turns out it's even better.

Overall I'm glad I was not around to track the draft with the great posters of Packerrats when he made the second five picks

[vince]

Thompson said that they traded back in order to move up later in the draft because they felt their first guy would be available with the trade-back and they wanted to move up with a later pick because they were targeting specific players later in the draft that they felt would go off the board before their original pick.

I'm excited about his draft.

Guys I'm excited about: Sherrod, Cobb, Green, Williams, Elmore

Elmore is a very productive player with a great motor. I think he'll push Zombo, Walden and Jones eventually. Jones may move to ILB if Chillar's shoulder doesn't hold up. I too think Williams will push Quarless. Williams answers Quarless' weaknesses in spades with great hands, athlticism and what would appear to be greater motivation.

[RashanGary]

Sherrod - (Hard worker, smart, good guy, naturally huge, athletic, effective) (bad coaching, poor technique, going to have to relearn a lot of fundamentals. He was effective so these aren't horrible negatives) - I think he'll take a year, but I like the pick because LT's are rare.

Cobb - I really like the pick. To Lurkers point earlier, MM seems to love flexible players. If we had a 5 wide set with Cobb in it, how easy would it be to shift Williams and Cobb into the backfield and run into dime defense? He's more of a pure WR than I think people give him credit. He reminds me a lot of Greg Jennings with how smooth and natural he looks catching and running with the ball.

Alex Green - My favorite pick because Ted seems to love him, because he's a freak athlete for a 200 pounder but he's 230 pounds and because he looks so sweet on the highlight clips.

Davon House - Took out a flyer on a high potential guy. I consider him like the late round guys, but with more potential. Just have to see if he can pick it up.

DJ Williams - I think this guy is a safe bet to be really good. Fast, excellent hands, big body, he should be ideal going over the middle. MM said he loves guys who can work the seam. Drafted after House, but I think a more sure thing to be good.


After this, it's a bunch of flyers. Any could pan out, any could flop. A bunch of guys.

[Tarlam!]

OK, the personal grouping possibilities aside, what's up with trading all over the joint and "only" getting one additional pick? I tried to see a benefit. Appart from cost, I don't see any. The roster is now 85 strong, he can only take 80 into camp.

Look, TT has always been the man for me, since he got there. But two TEs and all that trading has me, well, scratching my head. The TEs have been expained, so, I'm good with those now.

Any of you got any ideas about the trades?*

*Edit: Thanks Vince!

[Scott Campbell]

Shaky is ok. I got to see him play here, and he periodically impressed. But he's a great kid.

[Smeefers]

I think overall it was a good draft. If I'm going to pull a letter grade out of my ass it would have to be in the B range. I really just don't feel qualified to grade the talent we pulled in. I like the Sherrod pick. Everyone after that, all I have are little snippets that you guys have posted on here. If what JH says about what TT said about Green is true, then I'm pretty pumped about that guy. I like the Cobb addition and of course I'm a fan of Sherrod. Everyone else, I don't know. This is a in TT I trust moment, but it just feels a little disappointing that I know we drafted at least one of those TE's knowing full well that there's no way in hell that they're making the team. I really don't see us keeping any TE's on the practice squad either. Bah. Bobblehead's right though, who knows? And so, I'll just end this post by mumbling to myself and shaking my head.

[swede]

I think the thing about drafting two TEs is that in the offseason Ted and Mike decided to re-invision the role of the fullback in McCarthy's otherwise multiple offense. Considering how many different things we want to be able to do when we're on offense we had a curious number of limited players on offense. Crabtree can block in-line but not out of the backfield and he's little threat to catch a pass. Quinn Johnson can block in the backfield, but can't catch or run with the ball. John Kuhn is the closest to complete of this set, but you can't exactly switch them wide. In otherwords, MM decided he would like to add an H-Back position to the offense. Specifically a player who can line up in the backfield to block or catch outlet passes, can be lined-up in line to block or run routes, and can be split out wide. The ability to motion between those roles adds to the multiplicity of the offense.

I would not be at all surprised if next year the roster has something like this:

TE/WR: Finley, Quarless
TE/H-Back: Williams, Taylor
Blocking Guy: Your favorite two of Crabtree, Kuhn, and Quinn Johnson (but not all three).

This allows us to keep one more player at a different roster spot, and makes us generally more versatile. We could honestly keep only one dedicated blocker in the H-Back/TE/Fullback mold and keep two more players at other positions. Taylor could be an easy cut, after all late round picks aren't guaranteed to make it on the superbowl champions, but I think Williams sticks as an H-Back and takes the partial place of one of the fullbacks. No way we go 4 TE and 3 FB again.

But last year having Crabtree, Kuhn, Hall, and Johnson on the roster was probably too many limited players for MM's taste.

Damn, Lurker...you are doing some fine posting lately. I'm stealing this material to sound smarter.

I really like your point about the Kuhn/Hall/Johnson/Crabtree limitations and the likelihood that MM is looking for ways to utilize more versatile blockers and receivers out of multiple formations.

Green also fits in with this emphasis on versatility.

[Packgator]

NBC Sports gives the Pack an "A"

http://drafthq.nbcsports.com/team_picks.aspx

[HarveyWallbangers]

Too early to grade, but I'll give my initial thoughts. It would be nice to read the "What the scouts said" articles on JSO Insider. (Hint to Bretsky.)

I really liked the first four picks, but I was disappointed in the rest of the draft. I would have made the trade that netted the extra 7th round pick, and I'm okay with the last trade, but I wouldn't have made the first trade. So, if I were doing the draft, here's who the Packers would have:

1 (32) - OT Derek Sherrod
2 (64) - WR Randall Cobb
3 (96) - RB Alex Green
4 (129) - TE Julius Thomas
4 (131) - CB Davon House
6 (179) - WR Ronald Johnson
6 (197) - OLB Ricky Elmore
7 (204) - CB Justin Rogers
7 (218) - OLB Cliff Matthews
7 (233) - DE Lawrence Guy (also considered S Jimmy Wilson or CB Josh Gatlin)

I realize this has the benefit of hindsight, but with the players on the board at the time that's who I would have taken.

It would be interesting to see how some of these guys are doing three years from now.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Fonz gives them an "AYYY" as well.

http://mimg.ugo.com/201012/2/3/2/135232/fonzie-ayy.jpg

[Lurker64]

NBC Sports gives the Pack an "A"

http://drafthq.nbcsports.com/team_picks.aspx

The funny thing is, I strongly suspect that if three years ago if TT had delivered an identical draft, he would have got panned for it. We'd here things like "why no pass rushers until so late" and "Alex Green was a reach?", and "why two TEs for a team with one of the best young TEs around?"... but instead since Ted got a ring by doing basically nothing except drafting, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

I wonder if the people who write these grades just take teams that are reportedly brilliant drafters and just assume that all of their moves were brilliant and move on to the other teams. I mean, that would explain why New England always gets good draft grades due to their maneuvering, despite the fact that after garnering all of those picks, they don't exactly seem to use them particularly well.

[steve823]

I really like the pick of Alex Green. While RB might not be a glaring hole, Green is one of those people that can turn into a Steven Jackson type of runner or end up not being horrible. He didn't play a lot in college and is really an unknown so I like TT taking the risk on this kid. I honestly like every pick..at first I thought 2 TE's was dumb but if I'm not mistaken one is more a FB hybrid.

Also, I bet everyone feels great now that we got a returner in Cobbs. If he pans out he can be the first good return the pack had in a longgggg time.

Random note, but I hope Tauscher doesn't retire so he can help mentor Bulaga more and can possibly bring Sherrod under his wing. (I remember Bulaga saying Tauscher helped him a LOT)

[Lurker64]

Random note, but I hope Tauscher doesn't retire so he can help mentor Bulaga more and can possibly bring Sherrod under his wing. (I remember Bulaga saying Tauscher helped him a LOT)

If he retires, and he has any interest in coaching (or in continuing to collect a paycheck from 1265) they can probably hire him on as an offensive line quality coordinator or something in that role.

[Guiness]

Hard to tell with Tauscher, he's definitely a wild card to add to the mix.

If he doesn't play, I think coaching is in his (near) future. He stuck around to help out Bulaga last year, and I think the team would like to keep him in the fold.

[KYPack]

Hard to tell with Tauscher, he's definitely a wild card to add to the mix.

If he doesn't play, I think coaching is in his (near) future. He stuck around to help out Bulaga last year, and I think the team would like to keep him in the fold.

Good thread there, Aussie.

Nutz's comment times a few million. We think we know, but we don't know, ya know?

I was hoping to come on here and find out what all the trades to net one pick was all about. Given our bottom position, (which I hope we draft from forever) I'd think we did pretty freakin' good. If we hit on one of the JAGS, we did great.

Thought I'd toss in a few Cobb comments in here. I'm fired up about getting him. He's not big, but man, he's all business and all football. When you hear him talk, you'll see he's Packer football. I was so impressed with him after KY beat Charleston Southern (who?) in a late season game. Cobb commented immediately that the team didn't play hard against a lesser and he was dissappointed in the team's play on the field and effort. This kid has coach written all over him. He won't say much as a rook, but you can't buy his outlook in this day and age. He's exactly like Driver in his infectious personality and attitude.

He is a solid return man, good slot receiver, and he can really pass accurately. He's left handed and I sure MM will use that in some situations to roll him back with a run/pass option.

We'll have to see, but I really feel the Packer organization really did the job in this draft

[Fritz]

What I think this draft tells us, in part, is that MM is at the forefront of his profession in terms of creativity. I think that he's willing to try out new and seemingly odd roster combos - three fullbacks, before, and maybe now four tight ends regularly, in order to create more mismatches. He's not sticking to the same old roster formulas.

[Tarlam!]

Fritz, as long as M3 keeps winning he can do what he wants AFAIC. He'll need to be creative with that monster D-Line in Detroit. Those guys scare me to the limit!

[Packgator]

I wonder if the people who write these grades just take teams that are reportedly brilliant drafters and just assume that all of their moves were brilliant and move on to the other teams.

Probably!

[SkinBasket]

6.5

[MadScientist]

Fritz, as long as M3 keeps winning he can do what he wants AFAIC. He'll need to be creative with that monster D-Line in Detroit. Those guys scare me to the limit!

No kidding. Detroit really looks like they've got the right guy in as GM. If they can keep Stafford healthy, they are close to competing for a playoff. Can they bring back Matt Millen now before it's too late?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Good thread there, Aussie.

Nutz's comment times a few million. We think we know, but we don't know, ya know?

I was hoping to come on here and find out what all the trades to net one pick was all about. Given our bottom position, (which I hope we draft from forever) I'd think we did pretty freakin' good. If we hit on one of the JAGS, we did great.

Thought I'd toss in a few Cobb comments in here. I'm fired up about getting him. He's not big, but man, he's all business and all football. When you hear him talk, you'll see he's Packer football. I was so impressed with him after KY beat Charleston Southern (who?) in a late season game. Cobb commented immediately that the team didn't play hard against a lesser and he was dissappointed in the team's play on the field and effort. This kid has coach written all over him. He won't say much as a rook, but you can't buy his outlook in this day and age. He's exactly like Driver in his infectious personality and attitude.

He is a solid return man, good slot receiver, and he can really pass accurately. He's left handed and I sure MM will use that in some situations to roll him back with a run/pass option.

We'll have to see, but I really feel the Packer organization really did the job in this draft

I came here to post about Cobb and you beat me to it. It'll be fun to finally cheer for the Alcoa native (just outside of Knoxville), seeing as how the Tennessee Volunteers really could have used him those years he was playing for our beer-barrel enemies.

He has enough heart and leadership for several players.

[Gunakor]

I really like Cobb as a player. And I know full well he'd have gone somewhere else had we not taken him where we did. But, given the strength of our WR corps, I'd have liked to have seen another pass rusher taken @ 64.

Cobb will most likely never become better than a #3 WR on this roster. He has great potential as a returner, and it's okay to draft a return man in the 2nd round when you're drafting Devin Hester. If that's what Cobb is, then I'm ecstatic about this pick. But if he's just a middle of the road NFL returner, and a #3 WR at best on our roster, I'd have much rather have seen Houston or Reed taken there. Either of those guys would start on day 1 and provide a significant upgrade to Frank Zombo, Eric Walden, Brad Jones, or whoever we throw out there this year. IMO there is more value there than a talented WR fighting with other talented WR's for playing time.

[Tarlam!]

Love the sound of Cobb!

[Bretsky]

I really like Cobb as a player. And I know full well he'd have gone somewhere else had we not taken him where we did. But, given the strength of our WR corps, I'd have liked to have seen another pass rusher taken @ 64.

Cobb will most likely never become better than a #3 WR on this roster. He has great potential as a returner, and it's okay to draft a return man in the 2nd round when you're drafting Devin Hester. If that's what Cobb is, then I'm ecstatic about this pick. But if he's just a middle of the road NFL returner, and a #3 WR at best on our roster, I'd have much rather have seen Houston or Reed taken there. Either of those guys would start on day 1 and provide a significant upgrade to Frank Zombo, Eric Walden, Brad Jones, or whoever we throw out there this year. IMO there is more value there than a talented WR fighting with other talented WR's for playing time.

I would not argue with this; although Brooks Reed was long gone. I think they could have looked at either Dontay Moch or Justin Houston

[Pugger]

Ask me again in a couple of years. All of these kids sound good but until we actually see them play, who knows? I remember how everyone was excited about Brohm until he got under center and looked like a deer in headlights.

[Tarlam!]

I would not argue with this; although Brooks Reed was long gone. I think they could have looked at either Dontay Moch or Justin Houston

Well, they picked Cobb and I'm rooting for him. I certainly aint playing the woulda shoulda coulda game.

[Brandon494]

I really like Cobb as a player. And I know full well he'd have gone somewhere else had we not taken him where we did. But, given the strength of our WR corps, I'd have liked to have seen another pass rusher taken @ 64.

Cobb will most likely never become better than a #3 WR on this roster. He has great potential as a returner, and it's okay to draft a return man in the 2nd round when you're drafting Devin Hester. If that's what Cobb is, then I'm ecstatic about this pick. But if he's just a middle of the road NFL returner, and a #3 WR at best on our roster, I'd have much rather have seen Houston or Reed taken there. Either of those guys would start on day 1 and provide a significant upgrade to Frank Zombo, Eric Walden, Brad Jones, or whoever we throw out there this year. IMO there is more value there than a talented WR fighting with other talented WR's for playing time.


I'm not completely sure but I believe we were top 5 in sacks last year and near in bottom in the return game. You also add the fact that we are most likely letting Jones walk and with Driver in the decline it was a no brainer pick for me, especially with the intangibles this guy brings.

[Lurker64]

I really like Cobb as a player. And I know full well he'd have gone somewhere else had we not taken him where we did. But, given the strength of our WR corps, I'd have liked to have seen another pass rusher taken @ 64.

Cobb will most likely never become better than a #3 WR on this roster. He has great potential as a returner, and it's okay to draft a return man in the 2nd round when you're drafting Devin Hester. If that's what Cobb is, then I'm ecstatic about this pick. But if he's just a middle of the road NFL returner, and a #3 WR at best on our roster, I'd have much rather have seen Houston or Reed taken there. Either of those guys would start on day 1 and provide a significant upgrade to Frank Zombo, Eric Walden, Brad Jones, or whoever we throw out there this year. IMO there is more value there than a talented WR fighting with other talented WR's for playing time.

You say "#3 receiver" as though that's not a starting position on our offense. It's like "nickelback"... even if that guy isn't technically a starter, he's really going to contribute more than some guys who actually start.

Remember, that much of MM's plan in the passing games is to overwhelm secondaries with so many qualified receivers that somebody in the secondary is going to screw up. If you can't maintain a stable of talented receivers like that you're not going to be able to do what this offense does best. Going forward it looks like all we can really count on is Jennings, Nelson, and Cobb. So expect TT to spend at least one more reasonably high pick on a WR next year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And Nelson is a FA soon.

[Gunakor]

I'm not completely sure but I believe we were top 5 in sacks last year and near in bottom in the return game. You also add the fact that we are most likely letting Jones walk and with Driver in the decline it was a no brainer pick for me, especially with the intangibles this guy brings.


Like I said, if it's a Josh Cribbs/Devin Hester type return man, I love the pick. If it's some 12th best NFL return man, while an improvement over last year I don't think it's enough to justify passing on Houston. 5'10" wideouts with some return ability are available in every draft. There would be one next year too. So if Cobb isn't better than the average return man available in every draft then I don't see where his value would be higher than that of a legitimate pass rusher.

Besides, what happens after Cullen Jenkins is gone? Are we still top 5 in sacks? I think that's a fantasy if CMIII is the only guy getting to the QB. I think that was evident in the games Jenkins missed last season as well.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Mike Neal and/or C.J. Wilson can replace Jenkins, but Neal has to stay healthy. That's the concern. Then again, Cullen got injured a lot. Often, it affected his play. When healthy though, he was one of the best 3-4 DEs in the NFL.

[Guiness]

I think Mike Neal and/or C.J. Wilson can replace Jenkins, but Neal has to stay healthy. That's the concern. Then again, Cullen got injured a lot. Often, it affected his play. When healthy though, he was one of the best 3-4 DEs in the NFL.

Jenkins is/was a rare talent in that he played well no matter where he was on the line, and how the D was lined up.

Early in his career he was an effective 4-3 DT. He and Corey Williams both got those rare DT sacks.

When KGB faltered, he replaced him on running downs, as a 4-3 DE, and played well there.

Then the Pack went to a 3-4 alignment, and he's been a very effective DE.

He just plays well no matter where he is. Of course he was the DL in the psycho package. It was great when he got a sack from that alignment!

[Gunakor]

You say "#3 receiver" as though that's not a starting position on our offense. It's like "nickelback"... even if that guy isn't technically a starter, he's really going to contribute more than some guys who actually start.

Remember, that much of MM's plan in the passing games is to overwhelm secondaries with so many qualified receivers that somebody in the secondary is going to screw up. If you can't maintain a stable of talented receivers like that you're not going to be able to do what this offense does best. Going forward it looks like all we can really count on is Jennings, Nelson, and Cobb. So expect TT to spend at least one more reasonably high pick on a WR next year.

Don't count out Finley, who was AR's favorite target before going down last season. So that's 4. And he's gotten by with a Brett Swain as the #5 guy, so I don't see any reason whatsoever for TT to spend any more reasonably high picks on WR's.

The 8 sacks we'd have likely gotten out of Houston seems more valuable IMO than the 600 yards and 4 TD's we're going to get out of Cobb. That's my take on it.

[channtheman]

I'm not completely sure but I believe we were top 5 in sacks last year and near in bottom in the return game. You also add the fact that we are most likely letting Jones walk and with Driver in the decline it was a no brainer pick for me, especially with the intangibles this guy brings.

Exactly. Our wide receiver depth is not as great as some want to make it out to be. I think its very likely Jones is gone and Driver has been getting worse, not better. It wouldn't surprise me if he flat out sucked this year. That leaves us with Jordy and Jennings. If Finley could stay healthy we have him as well.

[Smidgeon]

Don't count out Finley, who was AR's favorite target before going down last season. So that's 4. And he's gotten by with a Brett Swain as the #5 guy, so I don't see any reason whatsoever for TT to spend any more reasonably high picks on WR's.

The 8 sacks we'd have likely gotten out of Houston seems more valuable IMO than the 600 yards and 4 TD's we're going to get out of Cobb. That's my take on it.

Sacks from OLB besides Matthews last year = 8.

Poppinga - 1
Zombo - 4
Walden - 3

Houston's imaginary sacks - 8

[HarveyWallbangers]

The 8 sacks we'd have likely gotten out of Houston seems more valuable IMO than the 600 yards and 4 TD's we're going to get out of Cobb. That's my take on it.

I think the big difference is that Cobb is very likely to reach the numbers you state than Houston is. Also, Jay Glazer said that every GM he talked to said Cobb was the greatest kid in the draft--while Houston failed two drug tests (including one at the combine when he knew it was coming). I was actually on the Houston bandwagon (in a lukewarm fashion), but later in the draft. I wanted Cobb more than Houston.

[Gunakor]

Walden's 3 sacks came in one game - that doesn't tell me anything other than that Walden had a great game that day.

[Brandon494]

I didn't even know about Houston's failed drug test, that right there makes the decision more of a no brainer. We also have Jones coming back and Dom Caper drawing up crazy blitz packages, we'll be fine on defense.

[cheesner]

Gonna go with an A.

Favorite Pick: Green. Seems the player most fans like the least, does the best. See Jennings, Collins and Neal (just wait).

Player I'm pulling the most for: Guy. Great story, sounds like a player I who will work very hard and will do well.

[Fritz]

Sacks from OLB besides Matthews last year = 8.

Poppinga - 1
Zombo - 4
Walden - 3

Houston's imaginary sacks - 8

When I was a kid, I wonder if my imaginary friend had an imaginary sack?

[Lurker64]

I think Mike Neal and/or C.J. Wilson can replace Jenkins, but Neal has to stay healthy. That's the concern. Then again, Cullen got injured a lot. Often, it affected his play. When healthy though, he was one of the best 3-4 DEs in the NFL.

Mike Neal's injury history: His Freshman year at Purdue, before he became a starter he missed some time with a Turf Toe.
His first year with the Green Bay Packers he had a separated shoulder that turned into a torn rotator cuff when he tried to play with it.

That's it.

I don't think he projects as a guy who is constantly injured.

[Deputy Nutz]

Neal is going to be fine, plus the emergence of Wilson leaves solid depth at defensive end. I was not worried for the Packers that they didn't take a defensive end. A 5 tech tackle isn't worth spending a high draft pick on.

Load up the depth chart and someone will emerge. Green can be used on strictly running downs if nothing else and then spell Raji. So you in theory have three linemen with experience on the roster playing right defensive end. It will work out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Mike Neal's injury history: His Freshman year at Purdue, before he became a starter he missed some time with a Turf Toe.
His first year with the Green Bay Packers he had a separated shoulder that turned into a torn rotator cuff when he tried to play with it.

That's it.

I don't think he projects as a guy who is constantly injured.

I liked what I saw from Neal, and I'm not overly concerned with his injury, but he did have a significant injury his rookie year. I think we'll be fine with him as a starter--as long as he does go down the Justin Harrell path.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Neal is going to be fine, plus the emergence of Wilson leaves solid depth at defensive end. I was not worried for the Packers that they didn't take a defensive end. A 5 tech tackle isn't worth spending a high draft pick on.

Load up the depth chart and someone will emerge. Green can be used on strictly running downs if nothing else and then spell Raji. So you in theory have three linemen with experience on the roster playing right defensive end. It will work out.

For a non-Packers fan you are pretty informed about the team. :)

[Lurker64]

A 5 tech tackle isn't worth spending a high draft pick on.

Most of the time I agree with you here, but this is a position where the gulf between the "elite" and the "very good" is enormous. It's not worth taking a "very good" 5-tech before the 2nd, IMO. They're like guards, largely fungible. But some of your elite 5-techs like Richard Seymour and Bruce Smith are easily worth top 10 picks. That's why you're going to continue to see teams take 5-techs high in the draft. If you're drafting late, like I expect the Packers to be for the forseeable future... you're just not going to sniff guys like that. So don't worry about the position until day 2 of the draft.

People get excited about sacks and forget what the actual role of a 5-tech is, most of the time. You want to create pressures, sure, since a large part of what makes a Capers style 3-4 attractive is that it's never immediately obvious to a QB what the back 8 are doing, but most of the time your job is just to keep the LBs clean. It's a position where you'll certainly take a hall-of-famer if one is available, but the rest of the time workerbees are fine.

[Deputy Nutz]

Luker I agree with you, if there is a guy that is elite you take him, but very few guys project as dominant 5 tech end, they are usually undersized tackles, that get moved over. All the defensive ends that the Patriots, Packers, and the Steelers were defensive tackles in college or in the pros. I guess what I am saying is that there are no true 5 tech end coming out of college, they all get converted after they are selected. The Steelers very rarely draft high 5 tech tackles, The Patriots have use a couple of high selections at 5 tech. The Packers starters were street free agents at some point in their careers in Jenkins and Green.

Hard to find guys that can give a consistent pass rush from that position, and the goal is to eat blockers in the run game and make sure that OLBs get free. shitty position if you ask me

[Deputy Nutz]

For a non-Packers fan you are pretty informed about the team. :)

I just report what I see and think

[channtheman]

Luker I agree with you, if there is a guy that is elite you take him, but very few guys project as dominant 5 tech end, they are usually undersized tackles, that get moved over. All the defensive ends that the Patriots, Packers, and the Steelers were defensive tackles in college or in the pros. I guess what I am saying is that there are no true 5 tech end coming out of college, they all get converted after they are selected. The Steelers very rarely draft high 5 tech tackles, The Patriots have use a couple of high selections at 5 tech. The Packers starters were street free agents at some point in their careers in Jenkins and Green.

Hard to find guys that can give a consistent pass rush from that position, and the goal is to eat blockers in the run game and make sure that OLBs get free. shitty position if you ask me

I think the fatass that eats fried chicken and twinkies all off season is pretty psyched they have a million dollar position just for him in the NFL.

[Gunakor]

We also have Jones coming back and Dom Caper drawing up crazy blitz packages, we'll be fine on defense.


I hope you're right Brandon. But I have my doubts that Capers' crazy blitz packages will be consistently effective without a second bonefied pass rusher. That's not quite what Brad Jones strikes me as. 4 sacks in 8 games with Cullen Jenkins or BJ Raji engaging 2 blockers in front of him every snap - that's what we got from him a couple years ago. About the same pace as the trio we put out there last year with Jenkins or Pickett engaging 2 blockers in front of them. The constant among all the variables? Cullen Jenkins.

Assuming Cullen Jenkins is gone - the biggest factor in my reasoning for a new pass rusher in this draft - I don't even see 6 out of Jones. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong, or Jenkins will be back and it won't matter as much. Otherwise I'd expect the pressure Matthews generates to diminish from last season right along with the pressure generated on the other side. That affects everything the defense tries to do. That worries me. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, but I think my concerns are legitimate.

[Gunakor]

When I was a kid, I wonder if my imaginary friend had an imaginary sack?


How wild was your imagination when you were a kid?

[Tarlam!]

I love fried chicken, but I pass on the twinkies. No wonder I didn't get to play football.

[wootah]

On the footballsfuture forum one of the regulars (who is a pro scout for the Steelers btw) gave his take on the 2011 draft class of the Pack: link (http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=447028) . Better than any of the reporters out there IMO.

[sharpe1027]

Walden's 3 sacks came in one game - that doesn't tell me anything other than that Walden had a great game that day.

Clay Mathews III got almost half of his sacks in the first two games. Sacks seem to often come in bunches, such as a game or two where teams do not have the proper personnel and/or game plan. That being said, Walden has been around for awhile and that supports your position that the one game good should be looked at with some skepticism.

[ThunderDan]

I think the fatass that eats fried chicken and twinkies all off season is pretty psyched they have a million dollar position just for him in the NFL.

Sorry I can't pass on this one.

I have a good friend who played ball at MINN and bonced around the practice squads of the NFL for a while.

When a 6'2" 305 lb man can dunk a basketball he ain't just eating chicken and twinkies and making a million dollars.

[Pack-man]

I give this draft a solid B. The only pick I question is the 2nd TE.

[retailguy]

Sorry I can't pass on this one.

I have a good friend who played ball at MINN and bonced around the practice squads of the NFL for a while.

When a 6'2" 305 lb man can dunk a basketball he ain't just eating chicken and twinkies and making a million dollars.

Yep. The boy is eatin some HO HO's too... ;)

[MJZiggy]

When I was a kid, I wonder if my imaginary friend had an imaginary sack?

Who are you kidding? When you were a kid, your imaginary friend was a girl who blossomed early...

[Bretsky]

my imaginary friends when I was a kid were two girls

Now my imaginary frends are three.......all playboy triplet twins !

[Guiness]

On the footballsfuture forum one of the regulars (who is a pro scout for the Steelers btw) gave his take on the 2011 draft class of the Pack: link (http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=447028) . Better than any of the reporters out there IMO.

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

He had House off his board, but doesn't say why, other than the guy is full of himself? Anyone heard more about problems with him?

He felt the same way about Green as I did. The holes I saw him running through won't exist in the NFL, so he's an unknown.

Had good things to say about Williams and Schlauderaff.

[Iron Mike]

I think the big difference is that Cobb is very likely to reach the numbers you state than Houston is. Also, Jay Glazer said that every GM he talked to said Cobb was the greatest kid in the draft--while Houston failed two drug tests (including one at the combine when he knew it was coming). I was actually on the Houston bandwagon (in a lukewarm fashion), but later in the draft. I wanted Cobb more than Houston.

Sean Jones was talking the kid up on WDUZ yesterday.

[Tarlam!]

Sean Jones was talking the kid up on WDUZ yesterday.

Link?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Link?

Pattie?

[Tarlam!]

Pattie?

Huh?

[Guiness]

Huh?

Bun Patty Lettuce Cheese Onions Tomato Ketchup Mustard Pickles Top Bun

Or is it?


Bun Patty Ketchup Mustard Lettuce Cheese Onions Tomato Pickles Top Bun

[Cheesehead Craig]

Huh?

Link
http://www.ajazi.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sausage-links.jpg

Pattie
http://www.vincesgourmet.com/images/P/sausage%20patty.jpg

[get louder at lambeau]

He felt the same way about Green as I did. The holes I saw him running through won't exist in the NFL, so he's an unknown.

Here's Green at Butte College in 2008, running from a more conventional offense-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMq6vduTK_E&feature=related

[Tarlam!]

I see what you mean. And his pad level needs fixing!

[Guiness]

That second video shows a different side of him.

There's some nice between the tackles running, some draw plays (maybe not a draw, but at least running the A gap) where he crashes through, and some more open field jukes that leaves the defender swatting at air.

Looks good. This did more to convince me than the earlier reel of him getting first contact 10 yards past the LOS.

[Bretsky]

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

He had House off his board, but doesn't say why, other than the guy is full of himself? Anyone heard more about problems with him?

He felt the same way about Green as I did. The holes I saw him running through won't exist in the NFL, so he's an unknown.

Had good things to say about Williams and Schlauderaff.



Awesome article
Interesting that he notes he knew TT wanted Chris Carter from Fresno, who IMO would have been an outstanding pick for GB.
I think the Jets and Steelers both did a dam good job of snatching guys GB wanted

[pbmax]

If that guy is an NFL Scout I will eat my hat.

Its more likely he is Joe Arrigo.

[swede]

If that guy is an NFL Scout I will eat my hat.

Its more likely he is Joe Arrigo.

But PB...there was one point in the thread where some guy says, "Wow, are you a scout or something?" and Palmy clearly said, "Yes I am." You 've got to pay closer attention, buddy.

[King Friday]

The draft is a B for me.

Like many, I am a bit worried about our defensive pass rush at this point. Matthews is a stud, and Raji eats up blockers...but we have little else to work with. The fact that we didn't really get anything that could upgrade that in the draft is slightly concerning, although I think we can get by for another year or two with the mid-level talent that is emerging (Jones, Zombo, etc) but I can't count on those guys to contribute consistently long term.

Offensively, Thompson has taken a huge step to ensuring that Rodgers has plenty of talent around him. Sherrod is a nice pickup. The guy is big and very light on his feet. Should project well to LT as Clifton's replacement. I think Cobb was a steal at the end of the 2nd, and will provide welcome return duty relief for Tramon, who is too valuable now to be doing that. Green is very intriguing. He's a big RB that has remarkably quick feet. I think he'll need a little time to learn some fundamentals, but I think he has potential to be a starter in the NFL.

The H-back pickups are also intriguing. I'm much more in favor of these kind of guys than pure blocking FBs. They will allow Rodgers far more flexibility in creating favorable matchus at the LOS since he can move them from the backfield up to the line or even out into the slot. I'm guessing McCarthy, who was kind of liking all the funky formations he thought up after Grant went down last year, was telling Thompson he'd be very happy to have more interchangable parts to keep defenses guessing.

Tough to earn an A when you are picking at the end of the round. However, Thompson didn't need an A draft. He just needed to continue the talent pipeline and by all measures I can see he did that just fine.

[get louder at lambeau]

Tough to earn an A when you are picking at the end of the round. However, Thompson didn't need an A draft. He just needed to continue the talent pipeline and by all measures I can see he did that just fine.

Ten new players in one draft is great for competition all over the roster, which might be needed if anyone gets a little complacent after a Super Bowl win. Add an OT in the first and a potential playmaker in the second, and I'm liking the looks of this draft. The talent pipeline is flowing well.

[Brandon494]

Cobb will be the gem of this draft IMO.

[KYPack]

If that guy is an NFL Scout I will eat my hat.

Its more likely he is Joe Arrigo.

I've read this Palmy's stuff before on that site.

He can talk the talk and seems to know stuff.

My main reservation about his bona fides is, how does he have the time to dick around on a net forum?

That & would the Steelers WANT him to spill his beans on the internet?

That has to warrant some skepticsm.

[wootah]

I've read this Palmy's stuff before on that site.
He can talk the talk and seems to know stuff.
My main reservation about his bona fides is, how does he have the time to dick around on a net forum?
That & would the Steelers WANT him to spill his beans on the internet?
That has to warrant some skepticsm.

If that guy isn't an NFL Scout I will eat my hat. Luckily it's made out of hemp.

Hey, it's the internet, you never know of course; a couple of days ago Tarlam said that Skinbasket was one of the nicest people he ever met. Knowing that Tar lives in Germany his remark shouldn't be THAT strange but still it took me by surprise.

Unless this Palmy has been a pretty good imposter for a long long time, that guy truly is a scout for the Steelers. He is active on that forum for a couple of years and got the Steelers gig last year. He also works (worked?) at Penn State so he never comments about players who are part of one of those teams. Besides that there really aren't too many restrictions he applies. How he has the time you should ask him. If you want to test him, go ahead, I'm sure he'll answer a PM.

[RashanGary]

If that guy is an NFL Scout I will eat my hat.

Its more likely he is Joe Arrigo.


Agreed. I have like 6 or 800 posts there and that guy comes off as a complete wannabe. Half of the people buy into him, half ignore him. Waldo is the most unique poster there with his numbers analysis. After that, there are a handful of guys who really know football and are good at piecing together draft information. It's an awesome place to hang out at for the draft just because they're so into it.

[Brandon494]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article_ketchman/article-1/Packers-draft-all-about-value/edcca5d6-08fc-43ce-98f4-d3bd418f6483


Of all the Packers’ picks, Pauline might like fourth-round cornerback Davon House the most.

“Terrific future cornerback; guy that can play nickel or dime in the early going and then become a starter later,” Pauline said.

What Pauline likes most about House is that he played for a bad team on a real bad ankle last season. The ankle injury caused House to spend Mondays-Fridays in a boot.

“He played the season at 75 percent,” Pauline said.

Fifth-round tight end D.J. Williams?

“Again, terrific value. If D.J. Williams was taller and heavier, he’s a first-round pick; great athlete, terrific character. His height and weight pushed him deeper into the draft, but he can play,” Pauline said.

[Bretsky]

If that guy is an NFL Scout I will eat my hat.

Its more likely he is Joe Arrigo.


That dude IMO clearly knows his stuff
It would not surprise me at all if he's
a real scout.

[Bretsky]

The more I read about DJ Williams.....the more
he sounds like Aaron Hernandez from NE

[Brandon494]

Or Chris Cooley