Plaxico Burress - Newest result of black salvation...

[SkinBasket]

From his own fucking stupidity. But, of course, now he's all edumacated on how stupid he was, which naturally makes him an excellent choice, just like Vick, to lecture everyone else on his own ignorance, but transpose it on the black community as a whole as a means of alleviating his own responsibility for his actions.

From ESPN, with commentary in red:


NEW YORK -- A remorseful Plaxico Burress said he no longer owns a firearm and that he wants to help mentor and speak to youth about the dangers of [being a fucking ignorant moron] owning a gun [and sticking it your pants, loaded, chambered, and safety off, like you're an extra in New Jack City].

In his first in-depth public comments, Burress spoke about how everything changed in his life that one night he carried an unlicensed gun into a Manhattan nightclub and accidentally shot himself in the thigh. He said the incident has motivated him to help others avoid the same mistake [in a desperate attempt to get back into the league]. He is teaming with the National Urban League and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence to speak to and mentor youth about the dangers of gun violence. And like Michael Vick, Burress has former Colts coach Tony Dungy standing by his side as an advisor and mentor.

"It was a tragic accident," [there was nothing tragic about this. An idiot shot himself in the leg and it cost him a lot of money. And there was not an accident, but the utterly predictable result of stupidity, ignorance, and arrogance] and Burress said at the National Urban League's headquarters in Manhattan. "I have paid a tremendous price for a bad decision. I say to myself all those 20 months and all those days [in prison], how can I take the next step and how can people learn from what happened to me?" [or, how can i get those dolla billz back? Fuck, Mike Vick killed dogs with his bare hands and now he's considered a fucking folk hero. Shooting yo'self in the leg ain't half that bad! So I'll stand around and talk about whatever it was I did wrong, tell some kids not to do it, and cry when I think about all the Bentlys this cost me. The national media will back my liberal cause of gun control, and I'll just call anyone who doubts my sincerity a racist. Worked for Mike. Oh, shit, I almost forgot. I GOT TO BE THE VICTIM HERE...]

"I dealt with so many different emotions over that time that I can't really put a finger on one particular one," Burress said. "I said to myself over and over again all those many days and nights, how could something like this happen to me [not how did I do this to myself]. Why did it happen to me? [not why did I do this to myself] I got to a point saying, you know what, I want to be positive and I am going to learn from it and try to make every day my masterpiece. I can't go back in time and get those two years back. [from himself] The only thing I can do now is learn what happened to me [to him. to him. to him. poor fella.] and go from it and take it one day at a time."

[Joemailman]

Can we bring back Bigguns for the response?

[MJZiggy]

He's lucky he didn't shoot his dick off. I appreciate the additions. Makes it flow better.

[Joemailman]

He's lucky he didn't shoot his dick off.

Especially considering he's black, since there should have been a better chance it would have gotten in the way of the bullet.

[th87]

Face it - there's nothing he could've said that would satisfy you. And I see you making generalizations regarding Black people all the time. How about you tell us what you really think?

[SkinBasket]

Face it - there's nothing he could've said that would satisfy you. And I see you making generalizations regarding Black people all the time. How about you tell us what you really think?

I don't make generalizations, like you do here about my opinions. I make observations. Feel free to back up your "accusation" about what I "really think" with examples, however, and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

And there's plenty he could have said that would have satisfied me. Almost any version of taking real accountability for himself and his actions instead of repeatedly claiming this was something that happened TO him would have been a wonderful start. Apologizing to legal gun owners who abide by the law and educate themselves on firearm safety for the spectacle he's caused would be welcome as well. Realizing that the "dangers of owning a gun" is a fallacy that should be replaced with the "dangers of stupid, ignorant assholes owning anything they can hurt themselves or others with" would have made me happy. Admittance of guilt or sorrow based on anything but the discomfort this has caused to his own life would get a thumbs up. How's that for a start, Mr. Smartypants?

You want to make this about my attitude toward the black community when the real issue is the disposition blacks have in regards to their own community - namely the culture of victimhood and immunity from accountability that has been made an essential part of their existence through political and social agenda. A culture, that, like Mike Vick, is on grand display here. And a culture that anyone commenting on runs the risk of being labeled a racist by people just as ignorant as Mr. Burress.

[MJZiggy]

I don't make generalizations, like you do here about my opinions. I make observations. Feel free to back up your "accusation" about what I "really think" with examples, however, and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

And there's plenty he could have said that would have satisfied me. Almost any version of taking real accountability for himself and his actions instead of repeatedly claiming this was something that happened TO him would have been a wonderful start. Apologizing to legal gun owners who abide by the law and educate themselves on firearm safety for the spectacle he's caused would be welcome as well. Realizing that the "dangers of owning a gun" is a fallacy that should be replaced with the "dangers of stupid, ignorant assholes owning anything they can hurt themselves or others with" would have made me happy. Admittance of guilt or sorrow based on anything but the discomfort this has caused to his own life would get a thumbs up. How's that for a start, Mr. Smartypants?

You want to make this about my attitude toward the black community when the real issue is the disposition blacks have in regards to their own community - namely the culture of victimhood and immunity from accountability that has been made an essential part of their existence through political and social agenda. A culture, that, like Mike Vick, is on grand display here. And a culture that anyone commenting on runs the risk of being labeled a racist by people just as ignorant as Mr. Burress.

You do so make generalizations, but beyond that I agree with you. Plaxico Burress shot himself in the leg through his own carelessness and stupidity. He should really own up to that.

[SkinBasket]

All of you are going to have to stop generally saying I make generalizations and provide some specifics of my generalizing, otherwise you're just generally generalizing what I say, which doesn't really advance your position any more than saying, "uh-uh." I may at some times label individuals into a general category based on their actions or words. And I may sometimes generalize to make a point about generalization, but unless someone shows me where I generalized someone out of pure generalization, I'm not having it. Not trying to challenge anyone to dig through a bunch of posts, but if you're going to make a vague accusation of generalization, then I would expect something to back that up. Otherwise you're generalizing me as a generalizationist without even the fair opportunity to respond.

Generalization sounds so much nicer than racism.

[mraynrand]

Generalizations are essential and useful. Hard working people tend to be more successful than lazy bastards. That's a generalization. People who don't know how to handle a gun tend to accidentally hurt themselves and others more than well-trained people. Another generalization. Unfounded, unsupported by fact generalizations about people with one skin color or another, usually demonstrate bigotry or racism. That's a generalization too.

[Guiness]

Summary: Dumbass

[Pugger]

Burrass is a dumbass who happens to be black. I'm sure dumb white guys do stupid stuff like this but we don't hear about it because they are not a well known athlete so it doesn't make front page news.

[Scott Campbell]

Face it - there's nothing he could've said that would satisfy you.


I think most people are pretty satisfied that he did jail time for being a grossly negligent careless moron.

[SkinBasket]

Burrass is a dumbass who happens to be black. I'm sure dumb white guys do stupid stuff like this but we don't hear about it because they are not a well known athlete so it doesn't make front page news.

The point here being not the stupidity beforehand, which, as you mention, is universal, but rather the abjuration of responsibility and the adherence to the victim mentality that is a strong, and I would argue harmful, element of the black community. Such mentality also allows what is an otherwise ignorant, moronic, and unrepentant man to be held up as a hero of reform for essentially not doing anything that isn't totally and completely motivated by self-interest. That annoys me.

[Brandon494]

That doesn't annoy you, black people annoy you unless they are scoring TDs for the Packers.

[mraynrand]

That doesn't annoy you, black people annoy you unless they are scoring TDs for the Packers.


This has to be one of the dumbest posts ever. It's like you can't read what the Skinbasket wrote.

[SkinBasket]

That doesn't annoy you, black people annoy you unless they are scoring TDs for the Packers.

Why you always up on my dick? Racist.

There. Saved you the time of composing your next couple posts.

[Brandon494]

I can't read, remember I'm black.

[SkinBasket]

I can't read, remember I'm black.

Is that a "black thang?" Being able to write, but not read? It's quite sad. Like getting an erection but not being able to climax. Poor little fella.

[HowardRoark]

I can't read, remember I'm black.

Generally speaking, that’s a prejudiced statement.

[retailguy]

Generally speaking, that’s a prejudiced statement.

exactly.

[Brandon494]

Exactly what?

[MadScientist]

I think most people are pretty satisfied that he did jail time for being a grossly negligent careless moron.

Actually I think in his case the jail time was a waste of tax money, since he only shot himself and as long as he isn't allowed to have a gun, he's not a particular danger to anyone. Self inflicted gunshot wound, and the NFL suspension that comes with it is sufficient in my book.

As for talking about it, if he convinces one moron that it is not worth carrying around a gun, then his talk is a good thing.

[Zool]

Is that a "black thang?" Being able to write, but not read? It's quite sad. Like getting an erection but not being able to climax. Poor little fella.

Or worse yet, climaxing without an erection.

[Zool]

DP

[Scott Campbell]

Actually I think in his case the jail time was a waste of tax money, since he only shot himself and as long as he isn't allowed to have a gun, he's not a particular danger to anyone. Self inflicted gunshot wound, and the NFL suspension that comes with it is sufficient in my book.

As for talking about it, if he convinces one moron that it is not worth carrying around a gun, then his talk is a good thing.


I think the jail time he served was more likely to convince lots of morons that it's not worth carrying around a gun. Which is why it wasn't a waste of taxpayer money.

[Scott Campbell]

I can't read, remember I'm black.


So why do you people always hold firearms like you were making a rap video?


I suppose that's a gross generalization, but I would be interested in knowing.

[Guiness]

All of you are going to have to stop generally saying I make generalizations and provide some specifics of my generalizing, otherwise you're just generally generalizing what I say, which doesn't really advance your position any more than saying, "uh-uh."

Well, I could start with the topic of this thread. I believe that was a generalization, of which Plaxico was an example.

A newer example, right along the lines of what you said above (not taking accountability for your actions) would be Terrelle Pryor's press conference 'apology'. He apologized, but, you never quite found out what he was apologizing for. :neutral:

[Zool]

Face it - there's nothing he could've said that would satisfy you. And I see you making generalizations regarding Black people all the time. How about you tell us what you really think?

In actuality, if you take away the title Skin put, there's nothing pointing to race in any way. Everyone else just assumes and adds in their own prejudices towards Skin. Yallz might be the ones with an issue. He just likes to stir shit up and be irritating.

[Guiness]

I think the jail time he served was more likely to convince lots of morons that it's not worth carrying around a gun. Which is why it wasn't a waste of taxpayer money.

Ninja'd.

What are the purposes of punishment?

This is the difference between a deterrent? Retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, and incapacitations. The only guaranteed ones are the first and last, retribution and incapacitation - retribution was his being punished for breaking the law, incapacitation in that he did not have a gun while in jail. Still should not be able to, but there's no guarantee he doesn't have one with him right now.

Deterrence? Well, you can hope others will look at this example and realize if they carry a gun, the could go to jail but...I'm not holding my breath. Will the fear of returning to jail prevent him from doing it again? Who knows.

[Guiness]

In actuality, if you take away the title Skin put, there's nothing pointing to race in any way. Everyone else just assumes and adds in their own prejudices towards Skin. Yallz might be the ones with an issue. He just likes to stir shit up and be irritating.


What about the thread title?

[Zool]

What about the thread title?

Like I said other than the title which was a desperate cry for attention he makes valid points. Skim not lest ye be skimmed.

[sharpe1027]

Or worse yet, climaxing without an erection.

How is that worse?

[SkinBasket]

Like I said other than the title which was a desperate cry for attention he makes valid points. Skim not lest ye be skimmed.

Race is an issue here. I talked about it earlier. But it's not my issue. It's theirs.

I've provided two examples of an identifiable sympathy in the black community for black athletes who commit crimes then fail to accept accountability or responsibility. That's hardly generalizing. Unless someone wants to argue that the black community didn't embrace Mike Vick in a way they would not have embraced a white athlete guilty of the same crimes or that they won't embrace Plaxico. Prove that, and I may be guilty of generalizing the black community. Or predicting the generalization of the black community. Or generalizing the prediction of the response of the black community.

[Zool]

Race is an issue here. I talked about it earlier. But it's not my issue. It's theirs.

I agree and said that in the previous previous post.

[SkinBasket]

I agree and said that in the previous previous post.

Then stop accusing me of desperate grabs for attention you dirty slut. The title is fine as it is. See my self-important edit.

Brings back memories of whatever thread that was that you as a moderator and I changed the name on a dozen times. Those were the days. When you were powerful. Now you are only flaccid.

[Zool]

Then stop accusing me of desperate grabs for attention you dirty slut. The title is fine as it is. See my self-important edit.

Brings back memories of whatever thread that was that you as a moderator and I changed the name on a dozen times. Those were the days. When you were powerful. Now you are only flaccid.

You even yell at me when I agree with you. This is why we can't have nice things.

Attention whore

[Brandon494]

Race is an issue here. I talked about it earlier. But it's not my issue. It's theirs.

I've provided two examples of an identifiable sympathy in the black community for black athletes who commit crimes then fail to accept accountability or responsibility. That's hardly generalizing. Unless someone wants to argue that the black community didn't embrace Mike Vick in a way they would not have embraced a white athlete guilty of the same crimes or that they won't embrace Plaxico. Prove that, and I may be guilty of generalizing the black community. Or predicting the generalization of the black community. Or generalizing the prediction of the response of the black community.

So pretty much if Plaxico was white you wouldnt have a problem.

[mraynrand]

So pretty much if Plaxico was white you wouldnt have a problem.

That was predictable.

[Brandon494]

That was predictable.

He arguing that the black community only embraced him because hes black. So does that mean the white community did not because hes not white?

[mraynrand]

He arguing that the black community only embraced him because hes black. So does that mean the white community did not because hes not white?

No, he maneuvered you into making that argument. He wrote: "I've provided two examples of an identifiable sympathy in the black community for black athletes who commit crimes then fail to accept accountability or responsibility. That's hardly generalizing. Unless ....."

Leaving the distraction of the title aside, in his first few posts he's making a point that you completely missed. See if you can discern the point and repeat it. It really has nothing to do with race.

[HowardRoark]

Black people can't dance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcJScBLIEX4

[HowardRoark]

SkinBasket generalizes my as having a rabid breast fixation.

[MJZiggy]

So pretty much if Plaxico was white you wouldnt have a problem.

From what I can tell, if Plaxico was white, Skin would have a problem and that problem would be that he shot himself and took no responsibility for it, played the victim card instead of owning up to his own role in the injury and then setting himself up as some sort of hero as if he overcame what others did to him when in reality the idiot shot himself. He could have come out and said "I totally shot myself. It was the dumbest damn thing I've ever done and there's no one to blame but me. I'm glad to be out of prison and hope like hell that my own stupidity doesn't prevent me from getting back to doing what I love."

But he didn't. And THAT is the problem. If you think this is white/black, ask me if I think Ben's new wife has a brain in her head for marrying such a misogynist. He didn't come clean and I haven't forgiven him either.

[MJZiggy]

All of you are going to have to stop generally saying I make generalizations and provide some specifics of my generalizing, otherwise you're just generally generalizing what I say, which doesn't really advance your position any more than saying, "uh-uh." I may at some times label individuals into a general category based on their actions or words. And I may sometimes generalize to make a point about generalization, but unless someone shows me where I generalized someone out of pure generalization, I'm not having it. Not trying to challenge anyone to dig through a bunch of posts, but if you're going to make a vague accusation of generalization, then I would expect something to back that up. Otherwise you're generalizing me as a generalizationist without even the fair opportunity to respond.

Generalization sounds so much nicer than racism.
And as for you...my neighbors are not black, they have house dogs that they don't leave out all day and when you decide to assign ideas to me because some idiot liberal that has nothing to do with me thought of them, you are generalizing.

[Joemailman]

If Plaxico was white, I'm pretty sure Skin would still have a problem with how he's handled this. I'm not so sure Skin would have started a thread about it.

[Freak Out]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yoDxf84A0Xo/SnLgH3sgVsI/AAAAAAAACiU/2C0jN-bMbjg/s400/i6flex.jpg

[Freak Out]

Plastico does Dallas.

http://www.newstimeafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Islamist-Rebels-In-Nigeria.jpg

[Deputy Nutz]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yoDxf84A0Xo/SnLgH3sgVsI/AAAAAAAACiU/2C0jN-bMbjg/s400/i6flex.jpg

Fucker is prepared for anything(life vest), I will give him that.

[SkinBasket]

And as for you...my neighbors are not black, they have house dogs that they don't leave out all day and when you decide to assign ideas to me because some idiot liberal that has nothing to do with me thought of them, you are generalizing.

I never said your neighbors are black. I said my neighbors were black. Guessing that a dog was beaten out of doors without anyone seeing led me to believe it was probably out there for a long time without supervision. Thus my hypothesis. Those are assumptions and guesses. Not generalizations.

I would challenge you, however, to find where I assigned a political argument to you that you did not make yourself. I am more than willing to apologize if that is the case.

[SkinBasket]

Attention whore

Fluffy butt.

[MJZiggy]

I never said your neighbors are black. I said my neighbors were black. Guessing that a dog was beaten out of doors without anyone seeing led me to believe it was probably out there for a long time without supervision. Thus my hypothesis. Those are assumptions and guesses. Not generalizations.

I would challenge you, however, to find where I assigned a political argument to you that you did not make yourself. I am more than willing to apologize if that is the case.

You're only saying that because the search function doesn't work. Any phrase that starts with "you libs..." probably applies. There are lots of them.

[bobblehead]

From what I can tell, if Plaxico was white, Skin would have a problem and that problem would be that he shot himself and took no responsibility for it, played the victim card instead of owning up to his own role in the injury and then setting himself up as some sort of hero as if he overcame what others did to him when in reality the idiot shot himself. He could have come out and said "I totally shot myself. It was the dumbest damn thing I've ever done and there's no one to blame but me. I'm glad to be out of prison and hope like hell that my own stupidity doesn't prevent me from getting back to doing what I love."

But he didn't. And THAT is the problem. If you think this is white/black, ask me if I think Ben's new wife has a brain in her head for marrying such a misogynist. He didn't come clean and I haven't forgiven him either.

That really is a trick question....is Ben black?

[bobblehead]

You're only saying that because the search function doesn't work. Any phrase that starts with "you libs..." probably applies. There are lots of them.

You libs are always complaining about us attacking your positions.

[MJZiggy]

That really is a trick question....is Ben black?

It's not a trick question. The rapist is white. And his wife is a moron for thinking that he couldn't do something like that again. I hope she's spoken to Elin and has her golf clubs stored someplace easily accessible. In other words, he hasn't truly taken responsibility for what he did either.

[MJZiggy]

You libs are always complaining about us attacking your positions.

I'm not a lib. Quit making generalizations.

[SkinBasket]

You're only saying that because the search function doesn't work. Any phrase that starts with "you libs..." probably applies. There are lots of them.

Who said I was addressing you when I said "you libs?"

Besides, I certainly disagree with a lot of your political positions that you've put forward in FYI and some of them have been very liberal/progressive. If you hold a lot of liberal ideas, I guess you can still call yourself whatever you want, but for the purpose of discussion, I'm going to say you are what you eat. You've sourced Jon Stewart as your news outlet for god's sake.

But I understand why you don't want to look for examples in FYI. Just let me know in the future when you feel generalized and we can discuss it then.

[sharpe1027]

Race is an issue here. I talked about it earlier. But it's not my issue. It's theirs.

I've provided two examples of an identifiable sympathy in the black community for black athletes who commit crimes then fail to accept accountability or responsibility. That's hardly generalizing. Unless someone wants to argue that the black community didn't embrace Mike Vick in a way they would not have embraced a white athlete guilty of the same crimes or that they won't embrace Plaxico. Prove that, and I may be guilty of generalizing the black community. Or predicting the generalization of the black community. Or generalizing the prediction of the response of the black community.

Considering the "white community" embraced Mike Vick pretty damn quickly, I really don't see the point of singling out the "black community." Oops, I just generalized 70% of the US population.

You presented your theory as to why the "black community" embraced Vick and yet that theory would not apply to the "white community," that also embraced Vick. It would seem that, based upon your debate rules, justifying your position would require that you prove that the black community wouldn't have embraced a white athlete guilty of the same crimes.

[MadtownPacker]

I think he got way too long for being an idiot. Since he didn't hurt anyone else, 6 months jail and 6 months house arrest would have been fair.

I agree with some of the shit Skin says but I am also randomly prejudice.

[NewsBruin]

So, who from the Monolithic Black Community has embraced Plexico, other than Plexico?

Shoot, Alex Rodroguez, Mark McGuire, Matt Millen, Jeremy Shockey, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Trent Lott, and the Canadian TSA have issued non-apology apologies. Does that make them black?

[mraynrand]

So, who from the Monolithic Black Community has embraced Plexico, other than Plexico?

Shoot, Alex Rodroguez, Mark McGuire, Matt Millen, Jeremy Shockey, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Trent Lott, and the Canadian TSA have issued non-apology apologies. Does that make them black?

It's unfortunate that the race issue got mixed in again, because largely it's not vital to this particular issue. The point is whether a person takes responsibility for their actions
or seeks to play the victim card. I suppose we could discuss which groups are more likely to play the card and why that may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that Plexiglass seemed to have little interest in being accountable for his own actions.

[th87]

It became a race issue when the Skinster identified it as such.

Also, from the article:


"It was a tragic accident," Burress said at the National Urban League's headquarters in Manhattan. "I have paid a tremendous price for a bad decision. I say to myself all those 20 months and all those days [in prison], how can I take the next step and how can people learn from what happened to me?"

"If I can just help a child to think about the decision of carrying a firearm or not to carry one out of the home, he or she may save lives in itself," Burress continued. "You can make a mistake and you can be a better person from it and along the way bring people with you."

Wearing a suit and tie and talking without any script or notes, Burress seemed genuine, sincere and humbled and said he spoke from the heart.

The words in bold seem like he's taking responsibility for making a bad decision.

As far as the language of "accident", it was - he didn't try to shoot himself. "Tragic" might not be the totally appropriate word, but it's not like he's paid to be a wordsmith. And if we replace the statement, "learn from what happened to me," with "learn from what I did," it loses some meaning because that would only describe his actions on the night of the shooting, rather than the totality of what transpired from the shooting to his release. And this totality is what he's likely trying to convey.

This isn't some cute way to avoid responsibility. Nobody speaks with lawyer-like precision, so I don't see why you're taking lawyer glasses to his statements.

In my opinion, I just think you enjoy being (faux?) outraged. And have found things to validate your preconceived viewpoints. I remember that video with the kid getting the fake Christmas present or whatever got you in a huff about black people in general, and here, it looks like you're reading what you want to read in an effort to bolster the assumption that black people don't take responsibility for their actions. Beware of the monster called confirmation bias.

[Scott Campbell]

It became a race issue when the Skinster identified it as such.

Also, from the article:



The words in bold seem like he's taking responsibility for making a bad decision.



A bad decision? As in one??????

Really?????

[Zool]

The words in bold seem like he's taking responsibility for making a bad decision.

As far as the language of "accident", it was - he didn't try to shoot himself. "Tragic" might not be the totally appropriate word, but it's not like he's paid to be a wordsmith. And if we replace the statement, "learn from what happened to me," with "learn from what I did," it loses some meaning because that would only describe his actions on the night of the shooting, rather than the totality of what transpired from the shooting to his release. And this totality is what he's likely trying to convey.

This isn't some cute way to avoid responsibility. Nobody speaks with lawyer-like precision, so I don't see why you're taking lawyer glasses to his statements.

In my opinion, I just think you enjoy being (faux?) outraged. And have found things to validate your preconceived viewpoints. I remember that video with the kid getting the fake Christmas present or whatever got you in a huff about black people in general, and here, it looks like you're reading what you want to read in an effort to bolster the assumption that black people don't take responsibility for their actions. Beware of the monster called confirmation bias.

He still felt the need to say "you can make a mistake" instead of "I was a fucking moron". I'm not so sure this guy doesn't have the same PR people as the rest of them. Every one of them admit as little as possible.

As to the sentence being over the top, its NY state law. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[SkinBasket]

I have paid a tremendous price for a bad decision.

Maybe you didn't notice the words right before your example of his "responsibility taking." The part where he portrays himself as a victim, having suffered great loss. Or the part where he uses the indefinite article "a" instead of "my." Wordsmith or no, these are avoidance of responsibility at all cost. I had a guy I worked with who would pull this shit all the time, walking out of the one shared bathroom our offices had, stating, "the toilet got plugged." At least he wasn't cowardly enough to call it an "tragic accident" or yabber about the tremendous price he had paid.


You can make a mistake and you can be a better person from it

Again, your example fails you miserably. "You" can make a mistake? You? How about "I made a mistake?" More passive voice, second person perspective, and nominative verbiage to avoid being the subject at hand. You're right, it's not a "cute way to avoid responsibility," it's a complete and total abandonment of his personal identity to avoid responsibility and accountability. Frankly, if you think there's anything approaching accountability or responsibility in his language, you're trying waaaaaaaaay too hard to read it in. Or you're just an idiot willing to buy into Plaxico's false redemption that obviously he doesn't even believe in.


In my opinion, I just think you enjoy being (faux?) outraged. And have found things to validate your preconceived viewpoints. I remember that video with the kid getting the fake Christmas present or whatever got you in a huff about black people in general, and here, it looks like you're reading what you want to read in an effort to bolster the assumption that black people don't take responsibility for their actions. Beware of the monster called confirmation bias.

Maybe you're right. Black people and white people are exactly the same. Same experiences. Same outlooks. Same notions. Same beliefs. Same politics. Same social behavior. Same interests. Same sense of humor.

I'm the one reading too much into things... thinking black people are any different than white people... generally. Or it could be that your preconceived viewpoints don't allow you to examine my viewpoint from a fair or unbiased position. But that would be ridiculous compared to your theory of racial parity.

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/091/284/original/eso_es_racista.gif

[Brandon494]

Maybe you're right. Black people and white people are exactly the same. Same experiences. Same outlooks. Same notions. Same beliefs. Same politics. Same social behavior. Same interests. Same sense of humor.

Nice sarcasm but you can say that about anyone, has nothing to do with race.

[SkinBasket]

Nice sarcasm but you can say that about anyone, has nothing to do with race.

So each person is a unique snowflake, totally unaffected by race?

Wasn't it you who told me I would never understand because I wasn't a black man?

[th87]

Maybe you didn't notice the words right before your example of his "responsibility taking." The part where he portrays himself as a victim, having suffered great loss. Or the part where he uses the indefinite article "a" instead of "my." Wordsmith or no, these are avoidance of responsibility at all cost. I had a guy I worked with who would pull this shit all the time, walking out of the one shared bathroom our offices had, stating, "the toilet got plugged." At least he wasn't cowardly enough to call it an "tragic accident" or yabber about the tremendous price he had paid.

I will choose not to judge his remorse based on his use of articles and grammatical voice, because I don't know how he expresses himself verbally. The bottom line for me is that he's trying to do better and LOOKS like he's genuine and sincere. Good enough for me right now.

And he didn't pay a price? He got a hole in his thigh and lost his football prime, tons of money, and his freedom. He paid more of a price than you or I did. For what boils down to ultimately a dumb decision rather than a malicious act. So no, I was never THAT outraged by any of this (except that he cost me my fantasy league), and if he appears to have grown from his dumb decision-making, that's awesome.

So did your coworker look remorseful for leaving the toilet in ruins?


Again, your example fails you miserably. "You" can make a mistake? You? How about "I made a mistake?" More passive voice, second person perspective, and nominative verbiage to avoid being the subject at hand. You're right, it's not a "cute way to avoid responsibility," it's a complete and total abandonment of his personal identity to avoid responsibility and accountability. Frankly, if you think there's anything approaching accountability or responsibility in his language, you're trying waaaaaaaaay too hard to read it in. Or you're just an idiot willing to buy into Plaxico's false redemption that obviously he doesn't even believe in.

Again, his use of grammar is not something I pay much attention to. And I certainly wouldn't read all that into a blurb of that length.

And neither you or I have any idea what he does or doesn't believe. All you're doing is using his grammatical voice (while ignoring other things), and your biases regarding black people to formulate an opinion about his motivation.


Maybe you're right. Black people and white people are exactly the same. Same experiences. Same outlooks. Same notions. Same beliefs. Same politics. Same social behavior. Same interests. Same sense of humor.

I'm the one reading too much into things... thinking black people are any different than white people... generally. Or it could be that your preconceived viewpoints don't allow you to examine my viewpoint from a fair or unbiased position. But that would be ridiculous compared to your theory of racial parity.

Wow, poor strawman. You really kicked the shit out of him.

[th87]

So each person is a unique snowflake, totally unaffected by race?


Not what's being said. I just disagree that a person's behavior is a result of their race. Like the fake Christmas present mom. Her behavior is the result of her being a bitch - not a result of her being black.

[SkinBasket]

I will choose not to judge his remorse based on his use of articles and grammatical voice, because I don't know how he expresses himself verbally. The bottom line for me is that he's trying to do better and LOOKS like he's genuine and sincere. Good enough for me right now.

You do realize words spelled out with letters are representations of verbal expression, right? But you looked into his eyes... errr... sorry, a picture of his eyes... and saw his soul. Good for you.


And he didn't pay a price? He got a hole in his thigh and lost his football prime, tons of money, and his freedom. He paid more of a price than you or I did. For what boils down to ultimately a dumb decision rather than a malicious act. So no, I was never THAT outraged by any of this (except that he cost me my fantasy league), and if he appears to have grown from his dumb decision-making, that's awesome.

He paid a price for his own actions. No one else's. He paid more of a price than "you or me" because I haven't shot myself with an unregistered firearm in a place where they are prohibited. I'll assume you haven't either. It's the result that matters, not the intention. And again, if you believe from his language he's grown from this, you're either illiterate or willingly stupid.


Again, his use of grammar is not something I pay much attention to. And I certainly wouldn't read all that into a blurb of that length.

How many more examples do you need? Pathetic.


And neither you or I have any idea what he does or doesn't believe. All you're doing is using his grammatical voice (while ignoring other things), and your biases regarding black people to formulate an opinion about his motivation.

Pathetic. I have an idea what he believes from his own words. You don't because you're an idiot or because you have ghey butt lust for Plaxico. What am I ignoring? Your desperate apologist excuses for his actual literal words? I don't have a bias. I have a theory based on evidence. You are ignoring his entire interview, all fact, all evidence, in lieu of your own free-base interpretation of what he must have meant - according to your biases.


Wow, poor strawman. You really kicked the shit out of him.

It's your strawman, dummy. I just make do with what you give me, which isn't much, sadly.

[SkinBasket]

I just disagree that a person's behavior is a result of their race.

You and Harlan should be working together on Project Utopia.

[th87]

You do realize words spelled out with letters are representations of verbal expression, right? But you looked into his eyes... errr... sorry, a picture of his eyes... and saw his soul. Good for you.



He paid a price for his own actions. No one else's. He paid more of a price than "you or me" because I haven't shot myself with an unregistered firearm in a place where they are prohibited. I'll assume you haven't either. It's the result that matters, not the intention. And again, if you believe from his language he's grown from this, you're either illiterate or willingly stupid.



How many more examples do you need? Pathetic.



Pathetic. I have an idea what he believes from his own words. You don't because you're an idiot or because you have ghey butt lust for Plaxico. What am I ignoring? Your desperate apologist excuses for his actual literal words? I don't have a bias. I have a theory based on evidence. You are ignoring his entire interview, all fact, all evidence, in lieu of your own free-base interpretation of what he must have meant - according to your biases.



It's your strawman, dummy. I just make do with what you give me, which isn't much, sadly.

1. So anybody who doesn't agree with you is either an idiot, illiterate, or wants Plaxican buttsechs. Gotcha.

2. It's time to brush up on the concept of strawman fallacies.

3. I'm sorry you're upset.

[th87]

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGvhcKxBA8&feature=related

2:56 and on:

"I was reckless, I made a very bad decision."

"I got myself into this situation, and I gotta deal with the consequences for that...I got myself in this situation by a lack of judgment."


2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkQDCpaTkJ8

"[Anger at] myself. Because I was the person that took that risk and chose to carry that firearm that night."

That sounds suspiciously like taking responsibility for what he did. Of course, I don't expect you to see it that way, because at no point in the video does he turn not-black.

[Brandon494]

So each person is a unique snowflake, totally unaffected by race?

Wasn't it you who told me I would never understand because I wasn't a black man?

And what was the topic when I said that?

[SkinBasket]

1. So anybody who doesn't agree with you is either an idiot, illiterate, or wants Plaxican buttsechs. Gotcha.

2. It's time to brush up on the concept of strawman fallacies.

3. I'm sorry you're upset.


1. Given the evidence at hand, yeah, pretty much.

2. Brush me up. I'm waiting.

3. No one's upset. I made a point you've been unable to refute, so you've resorted to calling me a racist. It's just not very clever.

[SkinBasket]

And what was the topic when I said that?

Something about being black, I would guess.

[SkinBasket]

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGvhcKxBA8&feature=related

2:56 and on:

"I was reckless, I made a very bad decision."

"I got myself into this situation, and I gotta deal with the consequences for that...I got myself in this situation by a lack of judgment."


2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkQDCpaTkJ8

"[Anger at] myself. Because I was the person that took that risk and chose to carry that firearm that night."

That sounds suspiciously like taking responsibility for what he did. Of course, I don't expect you to see it that way, because at no point in the video does he turn not-black.

So let me get this straight...

You can use two quotes to support your position, but I can't use half a dozen to support my own. You can use race to refute my position, but I can't use race to refute yours.

And I'm the one with preconceived notions?

Congratulations on finally finding something other than your own feelings to support your position BTW. It's at least a start. Although your first video is a couple years old, which would indicate he's actually become less accepting of responsibility since then. The second hard hitting interview by Stephen A Smith asking how hard jail was proves my other point. He's already being made a hero for "surviving" his jail time. 3 and a half minutes of talk about how hard it was, how he suffered, how he shouldn't be there with other criminals. Not one mention of responsibility outside of how angry he was. "I don't deserve to be here," says Plaxico. And you see that as accepting responsibility? Fail.

[Brandon494]

No point in arguing with him th87. He's like a fag who gets head from other guys but claims he's not gay since he's not the one sucking dick.

[mraynrand]

No point in arguing with him th87. He's like a fag who gets head from other guys but claims he's not gay since he's not the one sucking dick.

I assume you're drawing on personal experience. More likely you're incapable of arguing the point, so you're resulting to ad hominem attacks. While showing bigotry. Classy!

[Cheesehead Craig]

No point in arguing with him th87. He's like a fag who gets head from other guys but claims he's not gay since he's not the one sucking dick.
Wait, so receiving makes you gay? Guess the blood center will want to know that now...

[SkinBasket]

No point in arguing with him th87. He's like a fag who gets head from other guys but claims he's not gay since he's not the one sucking dick.

Maybe you should stop, since you always just end up making a total and complete idiot out of yourself with comments like this. I get it, without race baiting and your typical and repeated accusations of racism, you really don't have anything but poor attempts at insults to resort to. You do your people proud.

And by your people, I mean clowns.

[th87]

So let me get this straight...

You can use two quotes to support your position, but I can't use half a dozen to support my own. You can use race to refute my position, but I can't use race to refute yours.

And I'm the one with preconceived notions?

Congratulations on finally finding something other than your own feelings to support your position BTW. It's at least a start. Although your first video is a couple years old, which would indicate he's actually become less accepting of responsibility since then. The second hard hitting interview by Stephen A Smith asking how hard jail was proves my other point. He's already being made a hero for "surviving" his jail time. 3 and a half minutes of talk about how hard it was, how he suffered, how he shouldn't be there with other criminals. Not one mention of responsibility outside of how angry he was. "I don't deserve to be here," says Plaxico. And you see that as accepting responsibility? Fail.

You're taking his quotes and INTERPRETING them as not taking responsibility. I'm taking his actual quotes that EXPLICITLY STATE that he IS taking responsibility. You're taking your quotes, running them through your race filter, and are then concluding that he's not taking responsibility because some other black people don't. I'm looking at those quotes without the race filter, giving weight to his quotes of taking responsibility, and looking at whether he looks sincere or not.

Guess whose analysis is tainted with more bias? (Hint: not mine)

And I'm not using race to refute your position. I'm using YOUR bias that you admit you have and have demonstrated in the past. Me calling your bias out has nothing to do with your race - I don't know what you are. But it has everything to do with what you DO - how you've analyzed the behavior of black people in the past and presently. You are not objective because you are not objective. Not because you're white (or whatever).

Also, I don't know if you know, but people are allowed to have very complex viewpoints regarding their circumstances. I don't care if he thinks he shouldn't be hanging out with people convicted of serious crimes - he has said that that's the bed he made and has no one but himself to blame for that.

[th87]

No point in arguing with him th87.

Haha yeah, there probably isn't a point.

[Fosco33]

He didn't go to jail bc he shot himself accidentally. He went to jail bc he had an unlicenced, loaded, concealed weapon (2 felonies). Normal sentence for that crime go from 3.5-15 years.

If he's able to convince people that it's dumb to carry loaded weapons without license/training - great.

If he's able to convince some team to take a chance on him playing in the NFL again, I'd think it'd be fair to say anyone in with his position and talent would try and do the same thing.

[SkinBasket]

You're taking his quotes and INTERPRETING them as not taking responsibility. I'm taking his actual quotes that EXPLICITLY STATE that he IS taking responsibility. You're taking your quotes, running them through your race filter, and are then concluding that he's not taking responsibility because some other black people don't. I'm looking at those quotes without the race filter, giving weight to his quotes of taking responsibility, and looking at whether he looks sincere or not.

Guess whose analysis is tainted with more bias? (Hint: not mine)


You've done nothing but interpret. I've used his actual words while you've made excuses for his grammar and usage to fit your opinion. Again, instead of standing behind your own argument, you use race as a coverall. Or... dare I say it... your tyrone bigguns... err, I mean strawman? Don't have the evidence to back your claim? Well, just call the other guy a racist! Problem solved right? Gosh, you're clever.


And I'm not using race to refute your position. I'm using YOUR bias that you admit you have and have demonstrated in the past. Me calling your bias out has nothing to do with your race - I don't know what you are. But it has everything to do with what you DO - how you've analyzed the behavior of black people in the past and presently.

You're not? You just did. You're claiming my race bias drives my claims about his taking responsibility. I've evidenced his lack of accountability several times now and instead of accepting that, you continue to fall back on it being about race. What IS about race is the attitude of the black community who continue to rally behind these people who embrace the crutches of victimhood and unaccountability, which have become tenants of black American culture, the talking points of their political and social leaders, and a great detriment to their well-being. That has nothing to do with him taking responsibility. Other than you applying the later to the former in an attempt to compensate for your ridiculous lack of reasoning behind your opinion.



You are not objective because you are not objective.

You've done a real bang-up job proving that watertight argument.


Also, I don't know if you know, but people are allowed to have very complex viewpoints regarding their circumstances. I don't care if he thinks he shouldn't be hanging out with people convicted of serious crimes - he has said that that's the bed he made and has no one but himself to blame for that.

He obviously does have a very complex viewpoint of himself... that obviously involves not taking any responsibility or accountability for what he's done to the point of speaking in the passively nominative second person voice about his role in all of this. I've shown that several times, through my examples and your own. But you looked into his soul through the youtube video, so I guess I can't top that. Because I'm a racist.

But you and Brandon can go declare yourselves too clever for this argument. I'm sure you've convinced everyone here.

[th87]

He didn't go to jail bc he shot himself accidentally. He went to jail bc he had an unlicenced, loaded, concealed weapon (2 felonies). Normal sentence for that crime go from 3.5-15 years.

If he's able to convince people that it's dumb to carry loaded weapons without license/training - great.

If he's able to convince some team to take a chance on him playing in the NFL again, I'd think it'd be fair to say anyone in with his position and talent would try and do the same thing.

He had a concealed weapons permit in Florida. He moved, but didn't tell the state he was moving. They sent renewal forms to the old address, and the license expired. Was it dumb on his part? Sure. But to me, that's kind of an oversight and general laziness. It doesn't make him a hardened felon with no respect for the law or anything like that.

[3irty1]

Did you people read the same post that I did? The point is that Plaxico is taking advantage of an insane ladder of "rehabilitation" in a desperate attempt to get back into the league. Telling his story and calling it a tragic incident, and such is all an attempt to paint him as some sort of role model. This doesn't sound like it should work but if you say it at the "National Urban League" they will spin you into a victim, build you some sympathy, and do what they do best--get you some handouts.

Consider Donte Stallworth. Donte was part of a real tragedy (and the tragic part isn't that he lost money or playtime). Donte hit and killed a pedestrian in broad daylight while driving drunk. He surrendered to the police and pled guilty because he believed what he did was morally wrong. He reached a settlement with the victim's family and will never drive again. He was quietly reinstated to the NFL and I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with that. He showed true remorse, did his best to right the situation, and took full responsibility.

[3irty1]

Double Post.

[Fosco33]

He had a concealed weapons permit in Florida. He moved, but didn't tell the state he was moving. They sent renewal forms to the old address, and the license expired. Was it dumb on his part? Sure. But to me, that's kind of an oversight and general laziness. It doesn't make him a hardened felon with no respect for the law or anything like that.

NYC doesn't recognize out of state gun permits anyways. And beyond that, he bypassed the club's security, didn't report the incident, used a psueodym and likely convinced hospital employees to not report the shooting and lied to them that it happened at a chain restaurant.

Agreed - doesn't make him a hardened felon. But felonious activity and lots of covering up. Got caught and paid the time. Simple enough.

Would I let him catch a football for the Pack - sure, why not. Would I let him date my daughter - nope.

[Tarlam!]

Oh, Man, Skin has never ever suggested he doesn't view blacks differently than whites differently than south americans differently than canadiansen masse. He recently made a bet about how long the black plumber was gonna need etc. But he's not a bigot or a racist for that. Everyone of us has a pidgeon hole system based on the first sense we tend to employ, which is sight or sound. I do it and it's based on life experience. I've been to The Emirates and adored it, I've been to Israel and hated it. That may not be politically correct, but I pidgeon holes muslims and jews.

But you guys beating Skin up on being racisit on this thread are so far off. Skin is a proud owner of firearms, as is his wife. People like Buress obviously play into the hands of the anti gun lobby - Skin's adversary - and has basically said Buress should own up that he was the dork, got what he deserved.

Did Buress pay too much time/ money. I'll share with you the Finish traffic fines system. You get stopped for speeding the amount of the fine is a percentile of your annual income. A world famous race car driver war doing 60mph over. His fine? $280 000. I kid you not. I like parity.

But I think Skin's othr concern is that a handful of dumb people will spoil it for a boatload of responsible people.

[SkinBasket]

Consider Donte Stallworth. Donte was part of a real tragedy (and the tragic part isn't that he lost money or playtime). Donte hit and killed a pedestrian in broad daylight while driving drunk. He surrendered to the police and pled guilty because he believed what he did was morally wrong. He reached a settlement with the victim's family and will never drive again. He was quietly reinstated to the NFL and I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with that. He showed true remorse, did his best to right the situation, and took full responsibility.

Word to th87's mutha. Pour one out for the homies.

[SkinBasket]

But you guys beating Skin up on being racisit on this thread are so far off.

It's been more of a tickle. Neither's made a coherent point yet.

[th87]

It's been more of a tickle. Neither's made a coherent point yet.

Haha like your crazy ass would even recognize one.

[SkinBasket]

Haha like your crazy ass would even recognize one.

Should we take a poll?

[GrnBay007]

Ahhh...maybe it's just time to say WGAF.

Guy is probably doing whatever he can to save his ass in the NFL....like many peeps would do regardless of race, creed or religion. :)

But then again, it's a slow time........so continue on.

[SkinBasket]

Ahhh...maybe it's just time to say WGAF.

Is that some kind of white power slogan?

[Tarlam!]

WGAF= Who gives a flip?

[Iron Mike]

PGAF= Plastico gives a flip?

Fixed.

http://dailydale.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/plaxico-special.jpg

[Zool]

Should we take a poll?

From what I can remember, you take a pole better than anyone I've met. We were both really drunk though.

[SkinBasket]

From what I can remember, you take a pole better than anyone I've met. We were both really drunk though.

This is so inappropriate. You should be banned. Who do I talk to about that?

[Fritz]

Skinbasket lay with a Polish woman?

[Tarlam!]

Skinbasket lay with a Polish woman?

From Zool's wording, I took it to mean he got laid by a Polish man.

But they were both drunk.

[Scott Campbell]

From Zool's wording, I took it to mean he got laid by a Polish man.



There's a difference?

[Zool]

I'm not polish, but I did sleep with Skin again last night. He was fantastic.

[SkinBasket]

Don't poke the bear!

[Iron Mike]

Don't poke the bear!

http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/22784000/ngbbs4dcc40fb84816.jpg