Canton and Rodgers

[Smeefers]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/27652/calling-canton-aaron-rodgers-in-context

At first I thought this was going to be a garbage article that I wouldn't care about when I saw it on ESPN. It's the start of a series to explain who has a chance from the NFC north to go to the HOF. What I found so amazing was the side by side statistics they put Rodgers up against. Siefert even gives pretty good commentary and reasoning in the article. The only thing I disagree with is that Rodgers inherited a playoff caliber team. With Rodgers, the packers went 4-12, 9-7 and 10-6 (+Super Bowl) if I remember correctly and he had amazing numbers despite the rest of the team not doing well. TT was still rebuilding when Rodgers took over the helm. Honestly, I think TT was still rebuilding when we won the SB. Come to think of it, I don't think TT ever stops rebuilding, so maybe my argument doesn't hold any water.

[mraynrand]

It's hard to separate a QB from his team, if he's been there his entire career. Steve Young looked like crap with Tampa, so does he deserve to be in the Hall when it's obvious that the 49ers made him great, not the other way around? (I'm joking). Bottom line: Rodgers keeps up with the numbers and the playoff wins for just a couple, three more seasons and he's in.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/27652/calling-canton-aaron-rodgers-in-context

With Rodgers, the packers went 4-12, 9-7 and 10-6 (+Super Bowl) if I remember correctly and he had amazing numbers despite the rest of the team not doing well.

The Packers have gone 6-10, 11-5, and 10-6 (+ Super Bowl) with Rodgers. 27-21 in the regular season. 4-1 in the playoffs.

[Brando19]

The Packers have gone 6-10, 11-5, and 10-6 (+ Super Bowl) with Rodgers. 27-21 in the regular season. 4-1 in the playoffs.

11-5? I don't remember that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/standings?year=season_2009

[Freak Out]

11-5? I don't remember that.

Not surprising considering you were drunk in the barn most of the time.

[Joemailman]

Whether Rodgers is enshrined at Canton will likely depend on his ability to avoid concussions.

[Deputy Nutz]

Or if his new record label takes over and he retires early, with blond highlights.

[MJZiggy]

Or if his new record label takes over and he retires early, with blond highlights.
I get the feeling it's easier to make money as a top NFL quarterback than it is to earn money as a record producer these days... I'm just saying.

[bobblehead]

11-5? I don't remember that.

Lay off the weed...that shit kills short term memory.

[Brando19]

Not surprising considering you were drunk banging my mom in the barn most of the time.

Fixed

[Brando19]

Lay off the weed...that shit kills short term memory.

Haha....what were we talking about?

[MadtownPacker]

Whether Rodgers is enshrined at Canton will likely depend on his ability to avoid concussions.
Yeah his level of play is right there but he is gonna have to do it for around 5 more years. If he wins another ring in that time it should be for sure.

[mraynrand]

I get the feeling it's easier to make money as a top NFL quarterback than it is to earn money as a record producer these days... I'm just saying.

What's a record?

[Smeefers]

I think Rodgers only needs 2 to 4 more years of solid play to get in. If he keeps up his play and gets another ring, I think he's a lock.

[Pugger]

I think Rodgers only needs 2 to 4 more years of solid play to get in. If he keeps up his play and gets another ring, I think he's a lock.

But until he does all this Canton talk is a tad premature.

[Smeefers]

But until he does all this Canton talk is a tad premature.

Yep. The reason I pointed out the story wasn't the HOF talk, it was because they compared Rodgers numbers to the likes of Aikman, Young, Marino, Moon. You get to see how his first three years compare to their first three years and it's amazing how hand over fist better he is. They even put his numbers up against Peyton, Brady and Favre and his numbers are still amazing.

[Tarlam!]

This talk is premature. Does Ben Rapistberger get in cause e has some rings? I say, no, he hasn't deserved it yet.Favre goes for his 3 MVPs.

If Rodgers keeps it up, I'm sure he'll do enough, but he's still gotta do it.

[mraynrand]

This talk is premature. Does Ben Rapistberger get in cause e has some rings? I say, no, he hasn't deserved it yet..

Maybe one more rape - er, ring - and he's in, much like Terry...

[Joemailman]

Because the Steelers throw more than they used to, Ben will probably get in. When he retires, he'll be at least top 10 in passing yards, and at least top 15 in TD's. Add to that the Super Bowls, and he's in.

[Smeefers]

Something that is going to keep Ben out is the stain on the NFL he's left. The rape, the motorcycle accident, the telling Bradshaw to go fuck himself (in not so many words). When they enshrine someone, they look at everything, not just his raw playing ability. That's the reason Ben has to have more to get in. I also think it's a general consensous that Ben was not the reason the steelers won either super bowl. It was the running game and the defense. There's very little doubt about the impact Rodgers has had on the Packers organization, and the way he handled the Favre saga only helps his chances.

[RashanGary]

Head, Arm, Ball security, legs, durability, leadership, work ethic. . . . .

There is no QB in the league right now better than Aaron Rodgers. The reason he has a good chance to get in is because he's at the top of the league for at least a year and if he does it for two or three, he gets in on pure dominance.

[Smidgeon]

Head, Arm, Ball security, legs, durability, leadership, work ethic. . . . .

There is no QB in the league right now better than Aaron Rodgers. The reason he has a good chance to get in is because he's at the top of the league for at least a year and if he does it for two or three, he gets in on pure dominance.

Except for the legs, one could argue that Peyton beats Rodgers in all the other categories.

[MJZiggy]

Except for the legs, one could argue that Peyton beats Rodgers in all the other categories.

Peyton doesn't come close in the head category. Sure, he knows where to throw the ball, but you can fluster him and if you do, he calls his teammates out publicly after the game. Kinda kills team cohesiveness there. I have never seen Rodgers be anything but diplomatic. He plays the press the way he plays his guitar and if you've ever heard him play...

[Tarlam!]

Except for the legs, one could argue that Peyton beats Rodgers in all the other categories.


Peyton doesn't come close in the head category. Sure, he knows where to throw the ball, but you can fluster him and if you do, he calls his teammates out publicly after the game. Kinda kills team cohesiveness there. I have never seen Rodgers be anything but diplomatic.


Head, Arm, Ball security, legs, durability, leadership, work ethic. . . . .

There is no QB in the league right now better than Aaron Rodgers. The reason he has a good chance to get in is because he's at the top of the league for at least a year and if he does it for two or three, he gets in on pure dominance.

Work Ethic - Manning's middle name.
Durability - Manning hasn't missed any games, Rodgers has and is an ongoing concussion risk
Leadership - I think Rodgers is a great leader, but to have him a clear cut #1 is more than I'd do. Ziggy's right, Manning throws teammates under a bus, but he's gotten better
Arm - Brady, Brees
Legs - Vick, by a mile.

Maybe JH's posts was no QB demonstrated the combination, that I can support. One parameter that's missing is accuracy. I think Rodgers is close to #1 there, too. But this is a discussion about Canton. Rodgers has been a Godsend to a fan base that feared the worst. But Canton? He needs at least 2 league MVPs IMHO plus his numbers.

And heaven forbid if the weapons on offense becomes mediocre.

[Scott Campbell]

And heaven forbid if the weapons on offense becomes mediocre.


Like when Finley and Grant were out?

[Iron Mike]

Not surprising considering you were drunk banging my mom in the barn most of the time.Fixed

Freak Out's Mom takes it in the barn???

[vince]

Work Ethic - Manning's middle name.
Durability - Manning hasn't missed any games, Rodgers has and is an ongoing concussion risk
Leadership - I think Rodgers is a great leader, but to have him a clear cut #1 is more than I'd do. Ziggy's right, Manning throws teammates under a bus, but he's gotten better
Arm - Brady, Brees
Legs - Vick, by a mile.

Maybe JH's posts was no QB demonstrated the combination, that I can support. One parameter that's missing is accuracy. I think Rodgers is close to #1 there, too. But this is a discussion about Canton. Rodgers has been a Godsend to a fan base that feared the worst. But Canton? He needs at least 2 league MVPs IMHO plus his numbers.

And heaven forbid if the weapons on offense becomes mediocre.
Neither Brady or Brees has Rodgers' arm.

[3irty1]

If you are looking for an arm better than Rodgers look no further than Matt Stafford. With Russel gone he has to be the strongest arm in the league. Brady? No way. Brady? Maybe.

[Tarlam!]

Like when Finley and Grant were out?

Touché.

[Brandon494]

If you are looking for an arm better than Rodgers look no further than Matt Stafford. With Russel gone he has to be the strongest arm in the league. Brady? No way. Brady? Maybe.

I think you mean Brees no way and Brady maybe. Starting QBs in the league with more arm strength then Rodgers would be Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford, Jay Cutler, Vick, and Big Ben. Of those QBs Rodgers still throws the best deep ball.

[Tarlam!]

And accuracy is missing from the list. When I think how often he hit targets last season between the numbers only to have them dropped.... Beautiful passes, leading the receiver open not getting sold a dump. I don't know of a QB that is better.

But the discussion isn't whether or not he's good. It's whether or not he's Canton good.

For me, I need a few more years to decide.

[th87]

Peyton doesn't come close in the head category. Sure, he knows where to throw the ball, but you can fluster him and if you do, he calls his teammates out publicly after the game. Kinda kills team cohesiveness there. I have never seen Rodgers be anything but diplomatic. He plays the press the way he plays his guitar and if you've ever heard him play...

He far surpasses Rodgers in head size though. I'm waiting for his inevitable Pep Boys endorsements.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Neither Brady or Brees has Rodgers' arm.

Agreed. When you combine arm strength + accuracy + ability to throw on the run, I'd rank Rodgers as the best in the game. If it were just arm strength + accuracy, it's close between him and Manning.

[MJZiggy]

He far surpasses Rodgers in head size though. I'm waiting for his inevitable Pep Boys endorsements.
Why not? He's endorsed everyone else.

[RashanGary]

To quote Harvey Wallbangers, "Aaron Rodgers is good." We could leave it at that and it would be a perfectly reasonable summary of Rodgers to this point.

I'll add my part though, "He has the start of a HOF career." Length of career, production numbers, total rings and/or MVP's will be primary reasons if he gets in. Good luck, AR.

[Brandon494]

Not only will Rodgers be in the HOF one day but I think he'll end up being the greatest QB to ever play in Green Bay. The main reason I feel this way is the guys pure talent but the reason why I'm so sure of it is stability he'll have while being a Packer. We know McCarthy isnt going to pull a Mike Holgrem and jump ship. Our top playmakers are still young except for Driver, which is a position we have good depth. Our offensive line is pretty much set for the next couple years if Sherrod plans out. Also I know it lacked last season but look out for our running game this up coming season wiith Grant, Starks, and Green all sharing time. A huge upgrade over Jackson, Kuhn, and Nance if you ask me. I also believe we got two steals in the Randall Cobb and DJ Williams which only gives Rodgers more weapons in this already offense. Damn it feels good to be a Packers fan right now.

[RashanGary]

Not only will Rodgers be in the HOF one day but I think he'll end up being the greatest QB to ever play in Green Bay. The main reason I feel this way is the guys pure talent but the reason why I'm so sure of it is stability he'll have while being a Packer. We know McCarthy isnt going to pull a Mike Holgrem and jump ship. Our top playmakers are still young except for Driver, which is a position we have good depth. Our offensive line is pretty much set for the next couple years if Sherrod plans out. Also I know it lacked last season but look out for our running game this up coming season wiith Grant, Starks, and Green all sharing time. A huge upgrade over Jackson, Kuhn, and Nance if you ask me. I also believe we got two steals in the Randall Cobb and DJ Williams which only gives Rodgers more weapons in this already offense. Damn it feels good to be a Packers fan right now.


Well, you're out on a few limbs there, but I like it. Everything you said makes sense to me. Rodgers being great and stable, MM probably being her long term, playmakers being young, running backs improving, OL looking better for the long term than we thought possible just two years ago and I agree with you on Cobb and Williams, I like their skillsets and attitudes (not just athletic ability, but actually football skill and athletic ability.)

Oh, for the record, I LOVE Alex Green. I have my money on him being a superstar.

[retailguy]

We know McCarthy isnt going to pull a Mike Holgrem and jump ship.

How do "we" know this? I sure don't. For all I know, McCarthy is sitting outside Lambeau with an "On Strike" sign right now.



Damn it feels good to be a Packers fan right now.

This - I can agree with. I'm not sure it gets any better than this, but ask me after next years Super Bowl!

[MJZiggy]

How do "we" know this? I sure don't. For all I know, McCarthy is sitting outside Lambeau with an "On Strike" sign right now.



This - I can agree with. I'm not sure it gets any better than this, but ask me after next years Super Bowl!

I will agree with this when these morons quit bickering about $$ and get back to playing football. My worry is that we're all set to make a good run again and they're gonna screw it up somehow.

[bobblehead]

Haha....what were we talking about?

You said you don't remember 11-5....it was like....one season before we won the super bowl.

[bobblehead]

Work Ethic - Manning's middle name.
Durability - Manning hasn't missed any games, Rodgers has and is an ongoing concussion risk
Leadership - I think Rodgers is a great leader, but to have him a clear cut #1 is more than I'd do. Ziggy's right, Manning throws teammates under a bus, but he's gotten better
Arm - Brady, Brees
Legs - Vick, by a mile.

Maybe JH's posts was no QB demonstrated the combination, that I can support. One parameter that's missing is accuracy. I think Rodgers is close to #1 there, too. But this is a discussion about Canton. Rodgers has been a Godsend to a fan base that feared the worst. But Canton? He needs at least 2 league MVPs IMHO plus his numbers.

And heaven forbid if the weapons on offense becomes mediocre.

I want to play this game, seems like fun:

Durability: Rodgers achilles, many ahead of him. Concussions are a concern and he has been hurt replacing Favre.
Leadership: I put Roders and Brady at a tie for #1. Both are so cool under fire. Both seem to lead by example and get the most out of teammates. Being really good factors into leadership as well...both are.
Arm: Brady is as accurate, not as strong. Vick, Cutler and Stafford are stronger, but not nearly as accurate. Complete arm, I rate Rodgers #1.
Legs: Vick is #1 Rodgers is #2. Not a clear cut #3 that can actually play the position well.
Work ethic: So hard for the fans to judge, but based on Rodgers steady improvement and dedication to MM's QB school and film study I can't rate anyone ahead of him based on what I have seen.
Head: Brady is #1 again. 4? picks this season? Crazy numbers. He is just so smart in disecting the D. I would put Rodgers equal to Manning and Brees at #2 with Rodgers being more clutch.

If he stays healthy he is a surefire HOFer. I think he will be smarter with his melon from here on out, and hopefully we have put a solid OL in front of him and it won't be an issue.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Legs: Vick is #1 Rodgers is #2. Not a clear cut #3 that can actually play the position well.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'd say Josh Freeman plays the position well. He'd be 2a with Rodgers being 2b.

[Brandon494]

How do "we" know this? I sure don't. For all I know, McCarthy is sitting outside Lambeau with an "On Strike" sign

Holgrem reason for leaving is that he wanted complete control including GM duties. McCarthy is not that type of guy and knows how good he has it Green Bay. Him and Ted also seem to get along great with each other. As long as ARod is playing QB I don't see Mike going anywhere.

[Tarlam!]

Holgrem reason for leaving is that he wanted complete control including GM duties. McCarthy is not that type of guy and knows how good he has it Green Bay. Him and Ted also seem to get along great with each other. As long as ARod is playing QB I don't see Mike going anywhere.

Plus he married a Green Bay MILF. He's said, he feels "home". He's getting a street named after him that his kid, born in Green Bay, will cruise. I was more worried about TT leaving until he re-upped. I say he stays another 3 years, then he calls it a career. Think of of the draft damage he can do in 3 years!

[retailguy]

He's getting a street named after him

Kinda like Holmgren Way?

[retailguy]

McCarthy is not that type of guy

How do you know? I know you "believe", but how do you KNOW. You state these things as unequivocal fact. I just don't see it. Today, things are rosy. But tomorrow? Somebody might throw trash on his lawn like they did Carson Palmer, and then what've you got?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nobody knows for sure, but it seems highly probable that McCarthy is telling the truth when he gushes about Green Bay. He's from a blue collar town (Pittsburgh) that is similar to Green Bay. Holmgren was a West Coast guy. He married somebody from Green Bay. Holmgren was married before he got here. McCarthy doesn't have aspirations for being in complete control. Holmgren always did. Holmgren was in Green Bay for 7 years and was coming off 6 straight playoff appearances. McCarthy is already going on year 5, and if he maintains a similar amount of success, I'd be absolutely shocked if he looked to go elsewhere or suddenly became interested in having complete control. I think McCarthy realizes how good he has. I'm not sure Holmgren did.

[Scott Campbell]

Nobody knows for sure, but it seems highly probable that McCarthy is telling the truth when he gushes about Green Bay. He's from a blue collar town (Pittsburgh) that is similar to Green Bay. Holmgren was a West Coast guy. He married somebody from Green Bay. Holmgren was married before he got here. McCarthy doesn't have aspirations for being in complete control. Holmgren always did. Holmgren was in Green Bay for 7 years and was coming off 6 straight playoff appearances. McCarthy is already going on year 5, and if he maintains a similar amount of success, I'd be absolutely shocked if he looked to go elsewhere or suddenly became interested in having complete control. I think McCarthy realizes how good he has. I'm not sure Holmgren did.


If you were to contrast the Wolf/Holmgren regime with the Thompson/McCarthy regime, perhaps the biggest difference between the two would be the egos involved.

[Brandon494]

How do you know? I know you "believe", but how do you KNOW. You state these things as unequivocal fact. I just don't see it. Today, things are rosy. But tomorrow? Somebody might throw trash on his lawn like they did Carson Palmer, and then what've you got?

Haha ok man. Ive given you facts to why he would stay along with other posters. Since you want to argue over something so dumb give me some facts to why he would leave Green Bay.

[Scott Campbell]

Since you want to argue over something so dumb give me some facts to why he would leave Green Bay.


Some people change and get a big head with a little success.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Some people change and get a big head with a little success.

By this time after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 1997 (the ultimate success), we knew Holmgren had bigger aspirations. McCarthy gives off a completely different vibe.

[Scott Campbell]

By this time after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 1997 (the ultimate success), we knew Holmgren had bigger aspirations. McCarthy gives off a completely different vibe.

I agree. Holmy gave off some of that vibe before they won the big one too. Lets hope McCarthy remains unaffected.

[Patler]

Heck, it was rumored almost from the day he came to GB that Holmgren and his wife were west coast people through and through, and would go back there when an opportunity presented itself. His ambitions to be more than a head coach were also well-known.

MM has come out several times and expressed his lack of desire to do anything but coach, at least for right now.

I always suspected Holmgren would leave. I never expected a long run from him. GB was a stepping stone for him.
I think there is a good chance that MM stays for a long, long time. I don't expect him to leave to coach anywhere else. He could burn out from coaching and leaving for something with another team off the field, but I don't expect that to happen for a long time.

[Tarlam!]

Kinda like Holmgren Way?

Hey, you know that's why I mentioned his GB born kid. Fumble.

[bobblehead]

I agree with most of what you said, but I'd say Josh Freeman plays the position well. He'd be 2a with Rodgers being 2b.

Strange, from what I have seen of Freeman he seems mobile within a pocket and has a great feel for pressure, but I wouldn't say he has anywhere near Rodgers speed.

[Tarlam!]

I think there is a good chance that MM stays for a long, long time. I don't expect him to leave to coach anywhere else. He could burn out from coaching and leaving for something with another team off the field, but I don't expect that to happen for a long time.

This. M3 is from a town that's had, what 5 HCs in it's history? He grew up with coaching longevity. He has plenty of green. His bride is from there. I believe he' be tempted if Rooney called him, but I think he'd stay in GB.

My worry these days is how long Dom Capers will do it. He's a major part of the equation from where I'm sitting, and what Patler suggests about burnout might apply to Capers earlier.

[retailguy]

Haha ok man. Ive given you facts to why he would stay along with other posters. Since you want to argue over something so dumb give me some facts to why he would leave Green Bay.

Look, I'm not running around making unequivocal statements. I do know folks get big heads from time to time. GB wins another Super Bowl, maybe things change? Maybe they don't. You talk in unequivocal statements all the time Brandon. I just wanted to know how you knew.

Simple. If you'd have said, "I believe", I'd have stayed quiet. But it sounded like you had info that I didn't. I wanted to know what you knew...

[woodbuck27]

This. M3 is from a town that's had, what 5 HCs in it's history? He grew up with coaching longevity. He has plenty of green. His bride is from there. I believe he' be tempted if Rooney called him, but I think he'd stay in GB.

My worry these days is how long Dom Capers will do it. He's a major part of the equation from where I'm sitting, and what Patler suggests about burnout might apply to Capers earlier.

Yes we are bound to see changes with the success of our team and Dom Capers ( a major reason for that success) will more than likely set to go to be a HC somewhere in the NFL or in College Football.

[Smidgeon]

This. M3 is from a town that's had, what 5 HCs in it's history? He grew up with coaching longevity. He has plenty of green. His bride is from there. I believe he' be tempted if Rooney called him, but I think he'd stay in GB.

My worry these days is how long Dom Capers will do it. He's a major part of the equation from where I'm sitting, and what Patler suggests about burnout might apply to Capers earlier.

Who might they groom to replace Capers? Perry? Greene? Whitt Jr?

[Smeefers]

Who might they groom to replace Capers? Perry? Greene? Whitt Jr?

I'm not convinced Capers is going anywhere. He's getting up there in age and he's obviously absolutely awesome as a DC and marginal as a HC (with an expansion team, I admit). There's a lot of legacy if he stays in GB. Packer coaches have a habit of being remembered for a long long time. He could be the Buddy Ryan of this decade. MM obviously has enough faith in him to give him almost complete control of the defense. If he were to leave this year though, he'd be replaced by that ILB coach who's also the assistant coach who's name I can't remember right now.

Oh, and Freeman may have as many yards as Rodgers has rushing, but he also has twice as many fumbles and no TD's compared to Rodgers' 4. Looking at their statistics and statistics only, I'm surprised to see how similar they are. Their stat lines are a basic parody of each other. Rodgers is better, sure, but if I didn't have Rodgers, I wouldn't mind this guy behind center.

[Smidgeon]

I'm not convinced Capers is going anywhere. He's getting up there in age and he's obviously absolutely awesome as a DC and marginal as a HC (with an expansion team, I admit). There's a lot of legacy if he stays in GB. Packer coaches have a habit of being remembered for a long long time. He could be the Buddy Ryan of this decade. MM obviously has enough faith in him to give him almost complete control of the defense. If he were to leave this year though, he'd be replaced by that ILB coach who's also the assistant coach who's name I can't remember right now.

I personally don't think Moss is heir apparent to Capers. His background is a completely different defensive system, whereas both Greene and Perry played in this scheme so know it that much better. Just thoughts.

[Gunakor]

There is only one scenario I can see where McCarthy would leave his cushy coaching gig in Green Bay. Mike Tomlin resigns, and Pittsburgh gives McCarthy a call with an unbelievable offer. MM would leave Green Bay to land his dream job coaching the Steelers, which isn't going to happen any time soon considering how often the Steelers hire new head coaches. Other than that, there's no good reason for him to seek greener pastures. Pastures don't get much greener than the ones in Green Bay right now.

As far as Capers is concerned, transitioning from him is going to be like the Eagles transitioning from Jim Johnson to Sean McDermott. Even if you hire a guy from the same staff, it's not Capers. Things will go downhill for a while. That said, if they decide promote the next DC from within our own ranks, I'm almost positive the first offer made will be to Trgovac.

[Smeefers]

I personally don't think Moss is heir apparent to Capers. His background is a completely different defensive system, whereas both Greene and Perry played in this scheme so know it that much better. Just thoughts.

Very good point.

[Tarlam!]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8207e213/article/rodgers-great-but-must-accomplish-more-to-be-called-best-qb?module=HP_cp2


Rodgers great but must accomplish more to be called best QB

By Bucky Brooks NFL.com

Don't believe the hype.

Even though Aaron Rodgers has put together an impressive résumé that includes a Super Bowl title and an MVP award, he is not in the same class with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. In fact, he might not even be worthy of being placed above Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger on a list of the league's best quarterbacks.

Debate: One QB to win
You've got one game to win and only one quarterback to do it with. Who do you pick? Our experts debated that question, and only one selected Super Bowl MVP Aaron Rodgers. More...
This is not meant to dismiss Rodgers' numerous accomplishments over his six-year career, but the momentum of his scintillating postseason run has led many to proclaim him the league's top quarterback without fully examining where he stands against the best. That's saying a lot, considering Rodgers' numerous accomplishments over the past three years since taking over for the legendary Brett Favre in Green Bay.

Rodgers has topped the 4,000-yard mark in two of his three seasons as a starter and was only a missed game away from surpassing the feat this season (Rodgers finished with 3,922 passing yards in 15 games in 2010). He has been the model of efficiency in the pocket by compiling a passer rating over 100 in two of his three seasons, while also connecting on over 64-percent of his passes during that span. His touchdown-to-interception ratio of 87:32 is outstanding, and few have matched his success as a starter.

Rodgers' combination of poise, patience and accuracy makes him tough to defend. He shows uncanny timing and precision in the pocket, and is superb with his ball placement, hitting his receivers in stride. Although he is able to pick apart defenses with a "connect the dots" approach, he is also an excellent deep-ball thrower with the arm strength, touch and accuracy to punish defenses for creeping up to defend the short game.

In addition to being proficient from the pocket, Rodgers is a dual threat with the ability to hurt opponents with his feet and arm. He ranked only behind Michael Vick and Josh Freeman in rushing yards among quarterbacks last season, and his scrambling skills often result in big plays.

While all aspects of Rodgers' game rate highly, he is surrounded by an outstanding supporting cast that makes the game easier for him. He inherited an offense that was among the game's elite under Favre, and the continued development of the league's best receiving corps makes it hard to credit Rodgers solely for the unit's remarkable output. Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, and James Jones are big, physical receivers with excellent running skills. They specialize in turning short passes into big gainers.

In comparison, Rivers and Manning continued to put up big numbers despite playing with a hodgepodge of pass catchers over the past few years. Rivers, in particular, finished as the league's leading passer with a host of street free agents playing prominent roles. Granted, Rodgers can't control the level of talent surrounding him, but it is much easier to enjoy tremendous success when you have the weapons in place to thrive.


Another overlooked factor in Rodgers' phenomenal run has been the presence of the league's top defense. On the surface, it wouldn't appear that the Packers' defense would have an effect on Rodgers' play, but the added opportunities created off turnovers and three-and-outs leads to short fields and more scoring opportunities. Over the past two seasons, the defense has finished among the top six units in takeaways, and the extra possessions have certainly led to more big plays and production from Rodgers.

Manning, for example, has never been backed by an elite defense, yet he has continued to make the Colts one of the league's most productive units. The Colts led the league in 2010 with 34 10-play scoring drives, with 21 of those resulting in touchdowns.The Packers only produced 17 10-play scoring drives, but finished fifth in the league in points off takeaways.

A laundry list of impressive statistics is certainly a big part in deciding between the best quarterbacks, but it ultimately comes down to winning championships. Rodgers' Super Bowl XLV victory earns him a spot in the conversation, but it is hard to consider him better than Brady and Roethlisberger based on their multiple championship victories.

Brady, who has earned three Super Bowl rings in four tries, is considered the quintessential winner of the modern game. He became the fastest quarterback in the league to win 100 games as a starter, and his flair for orchestrating dramatic comebacks in Super Bowl has cemented his status as the top quarterback in the game.

Roethlisberger has already captured two rings in seven seasons. Although some would say he won his first title in spite of his performance, he earned his stripes with his stirring performance in Super Bowl XLIII over the Arizona Cardinals. His game-winning drive was orchestrated in dramatic fashion with a pinpoint pass to Santonio Holmes winning the game.

While Roethlisberger doesn't compare stylistically to Rodgers, his rings and winning pedigree make it hard to dismiss his standing as one of the top quarterbacks in the game.

Rodgers has deservedly earned a spot at the table with the elite quarterbacks after his scintillating postseason run that resulted in his first Super Bowl title. However, a legacy is built over time, and his résumé is simply too short to put him above some of the great signal callers still playing at a high level in today's game.

[Joemailman]

I agree that Rodgers isn't quite there yet. The last 2 years he's been the NFL's best quarterback in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. However, his 1st half performance hasn't been quite as good. He needs to be elite for a full season before he can be put up there with Brady and Manning. I think he can do it, and it might happen this year, but in my opinion it hasn't happened yet.

[Deputy Nutz]

There is only one scenario I can see where McCarthy would leave his cushy coaching gig in Green Bay. Mike Tomlin resigns, and Pittsburgh gives McCarthy a call with an unbelievable offer. MM would leave Green Bay to land his dream job coaching the Steelers, which isn't going to happen any time soon considering how often the Steelers hire new head coaches. Other than that, there's no good reason for him to seek greener pastures. Pastures don't get much greener than the ones in Green Bay right now.

As far as Capers is concerned, transitioning from him is going to be like the Eagles transitioning from Jim Johnson to Sean McDermott. Even if you hire a guy from the same staff, it's not Capers. Things will go downhill for a while. That said, if they decide promote the next DC from within our own ranks, I'm almost positive the first offer made will be to Trgovac.

We all thought Holmgren wouldn't leave unless it was to the 49ers, but he up and left for more control, of the Seahawks for piss sakes.

[Bossman641]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8207e213/article/rodgers-great-but-must-accomplish-more-to-be-called-best-qb?module=HP_cp2

Some of the points in that article piss me off. Downgrading Rodgers because he had a good defense and good skills position players around him? Not like Manning has garbage. Furthermore, Brees, Manning, and Rivers don't have to face anywhere near the weather conditions Rodgers does.

[Patler]

We all thought Holmgren wouldn't leave unless it was to the 49ers, but he up and left for more control, of the Seahawks for piss sakes.

Who thought that? Most figured GB was just a stepping stone for Holmgren. He never talked that enthusiastically about GB as a "career," he often talked about eventually wanting a position with more control even early in his tenure, he turned down talks to renew his contract after the SB win, and he tried to get out after the '97 season. It got to the point that Harlan and Wolf made an announcement that they had informed Holmgren that they would deny permission to teams to talk to him even if it included a GM offer. His contract had two years left, and the rumor was they told him they wanted him to complete at least one more, to see if they could get a 2nd SB win after losing to the Broncos.

The impression from MM is much, much different than anything from Holmgren.

[Scott Campbell]

Some of the points in that article piss me off. Downgrading Rodgers because he had a good defense and good skills position players around him? Not like Manning has garbage. Furthermore, Brees, Manning, and Rivers don't have to face anywhere near the weather conditions Rodgers does.


Hopefully Rodgers is pissed off about it too. We all know how he responds to that kind of thing.

[Deputy Nutz]

Who thought that? Most figured GB was just a stepping stone for Holmgren. He never talked that enthusiastically about GB as a "career," he often talked about eventually wanting a position with more control even early in his tenure, he turned down talks to renew his contract after the SB win, and he tried to get out after the '97 season. It got to the point that Harlan and Wolf made an announcement that they had informed Holmgren that they would deny permission to teams to talk to him even if it included a GM offer. His contract had two years left, and the rumor was they told him they wanted him to complete at least one more, to see if they could get a 2nd SB win after losing to the Broncos.

The impression from MM is much, much different than anything from Holmgren.

You point out the obvious. They named a street after him in Green Bay for christsakes. The same euphoria that is going on now is what it was after the Super Bowl win in 1996. Then the story broke that Holmgren was taking offers during the 1997 Super Bowl, and Wolf and Harlan then came out. We all knew that Holmgren wanted more, but we certainly didn't think it was going to be after two straight Super Bowl appearances.

My point is all good things that happen in sports come to an end. Thinking that McCarthy and Thompson are going to build a twenty year dynasty is too much cool aid.

[Brandon494]

What a fucking hater! Manning has had Harrison, Wayne, and Clark while Rivers has had LT, Gates, and Jackson yet this dude is acting like Rodgers is the only QB who has ever played with talented playmakers. Then he wants to bring up defense like the Steelers don't rank in the top 3 each year for Big Ben. Also didn't the Saints defense have to step up last season for Brees to win his first SB. Sorry Bucky Brooks but you sir are a fucking moron.

[Brandon494]

It just makes no sense at all to think McCarthy is going to pull a Holgrem. Im not going to even waste my time arguing about it.

[Joemailman]

I suppose the key is how long TT stays here. I get the sense that Thompson and McCarthy are on the same wavelength as far as the type of players they want here. As long as Thompson is here, McCarthy has no reason to want more influence in personnel decisions. Whether that will change if/when Thompson leaves is anybody's guess.

[Lurker64]

Some of the points in that article piss me off. Downgrading Rodgers because he had a good defense and good skills position players around him? Not like Manning has garbage. Furthermore, Brees, Manning, and Rivers don't have to face anywhere near the weather conditions Rodgers does.

These things are especially ridiculous. The Green Bay passing game is largely based on two principles: "the play action game being effective because McCarthy continues to run the ball even when though it's not working", and "overwhelming the secondary with a collection of C+ to B receivers". The former just comes down to coaching and playcalling, though Rodgers does have the authority to audible so you have to give him credit for it, but the latter only works when you have a QB who's on top of his game. It's a lot harder to spot the open WR in a 4 or 5 wide set in the time afforded by minimal protection than it is to huck the ball up to a superstar physical freak WR who will catch the ball even if covered and can beat most defensive backs by 3 yards (Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, etc.) The only pass catching threats that we have that are really B+ or better are Jennings and Finley, and Finley missed 3/4 of last season.

As for the defense... so what? Does anybody really believe that the defense didn't have a lot to do with Roethlisberger's rings or Brady's? Both of the Manning brothers have a damn good pass rush to thank for their rings: Eli had the best DL in the league, and Peyton has only won a ring in a season where Bob Sanders was healthy the whole time. Brees doesn't win a ring last year if the Saints don't force so many opportune turnovers (including FIVE in the NFC Championship game, a game where they won the turnover differential by 4 and the game by 3.) The last team to win the superbowl where the defense wasn't a huge part of the accomplishment was the 1999-2000 Rams, and that defense was still very solid (finished fourth in the NFL in scoring defense), it's just that offense was one of the all-time great offenses. You don't win the superbowl in this day and age without a defense that's not significantly about average at least one important thing.

[Patler]

You point out the obvious. They named a street after him in Green Bay for christsakes. The same euphoria that is going on now is what it was after the Super Bowl win in 1996. Then the story broke that Holmgren was taking offers during the 1997 Super Bowl, and Wolf and Harlan then came out. We all knew that Holmgren wanted more, but we certainly didn't think it was going to be after two straight Super Bowl appearances.

My point is all good things that happen in sports come to an end. Thinking that McCarthy and Thompson are going to build a twenty year dynasty is too much cool aid.

I never expected Holmgren to renew his first contract before the SB victory, that's how little I expected him to stay. After they won, I expected him to leave immediately. What does naming a street after him have to do with it? Petty local politicians trying to make points with the voters.

There is a completely different feel with MM than with Holmgren. MM sounds content, satisfied, fulfilled by being the Packers coach. Holmgren always came across as looking for something more. He didn't seem satisfied from outset.

Will they last together for 20 years? Not likely because TT won't stay that long. But, both seem satisfied for now; and I fully expect they will stay through their extensions for the next 5 years. If they win another SB in that time, both could stay on a while longer in an attempt to get a 3rd, which would put them among the elite.

I would not be surprised if TT hangs it up after his contract expires in 5 years. MM could be the type of guy who is content as a coach for another 10 years or so. Those guys crop up every now and then. He just seems like a coach, through and through. Lovie Smith is another one. At some point their times will be up, and maybe then they will look for front office jobs, but they seem like coaches first and foremost.

[Tarlam!]

My point is all good things that happen in sports come to an end. Thinking that McCarthy and Thompson are going to build a twenty year dynasty is too much cool aid.

Obviously, they won't be together in GB the next 20 years. Just as obviously, all things come to an end. But the difference is often why and how. Take the departure of Holmgen as a "Why" and the departure of #4 as "How" examples for negatives where the ball club made some mistakes, but those two individuals are mostly the guilty parties.

If TT wants to retire, I think he'll do it a way similar Harlan: He'll make sure the replacement is a great fit. If M3 starts losing he goes, just like anywhere. Should he hang around, he may very well get TT's job, though I doubt we'll see the dual roles of GM/HC in GB any time soon.

Back to Rodgers: If you click on the site that I posted there's a link to a related article where 6-6 "experts" are asked to pick their QB to win a big game. Interestingly, Rodgers got 2 votes.

[Gunakor]

My point is all good things that happen in sports come to an end. Thinking that McCarthy and Thompson are going to build a twenty year dynasty is too much cool aid.

How about a 6 or 7 year dynasty? Still too much to expect from a team full of twenty-somethings, a coach who shows absolutely no intention of leaving, and an elite GM who just signed a contract extension?

Tell you what Nutz. Instead of bickering back and forth forever on this, how about you tell us what you think is wrong with this team? Why can't we win 3 or 4 more titles by the end of the decade? Who is better than Green Bay right now? Who is deeper? Who is more complete? Who's going to come along in the next few years and knock us off the pedestal we're sitting on? All good things in sports most certainly do come to an end, and this one will too. But not tomorrow. This good thing in sports just started. It's still got a full course to run.

[Scott Campbell]

Why can't we win 3 or 4 more titles by the end of the decade?


Parity, and the 32 team league.

[Patler]

Parity, and the 32 team league.

Both have been around a long time. I think the biggest obstacle is Rodgers' concussions. With the new emphasis on safeguarding players and his past history, he will be out of any game when he takes a hit and shows the least sign. He will miss games that will follow. His career will be shortened. Two in a season close together have me extremely concerned about his longevity.

In addition to that, it is likely to change how he plays. He will run less, take dives more. Most QBs do that as they age, but with Rodgers it will happen much sooner that it would have. MM will change what he calls and what he installs. The QB sneak will again disappear.

I give Rodgers about 5 more years. He will be retired in his very early 30's. Hope I'm wrong.

[Brandon494]

The guy is not a running back and with the rules changes they have placed on protecting the QB he'll be fine. I'm pretty confident Rodgers will be playing beyond 5 years

[Patler]

The guy is not a running back and with the rules changes they have placed on protecting the QB he'll be fine. I'm pretty confident Rodgers will be playing beyond 5 years

The problem as I see it is that his concussions were sustained on routine plays, with no penalties called, while the rules to protect QBs were already in place. Both were plays that you really can't protect him from with rules or play calls because they were just routine football situations. Sure, you can avoid calling QB sneaks and warn him to slide, but the types of hits in which he got concussions can happen anytime he drops back to pass. Two in short succession were a red flag for me, and with the medical scrutiny now given to concussions he will miss playing time. If (when) he gets a third one, he very well could miss multiple games.

[Brandon494]

Also if we were to win 3-4 titles in the next decade we would go down as the greatest franchise in history. I do believe we can be a dynasty and win one or two more with Rodgers at QB but your starting to sound like Lebron with winning that many titles.

[Gunakor]

Parity, and the 32 team league.

Didn't stop the Pats. We're a much more complete team than the one that won 3 titles in New England. They may have been slightly better at QB (slightly), and had a more clutch kicker, but we're better just about everywhere else. Better WR's, better TE's, better DB's. Better depth across the board. Compare those rosters to ours, and tell me why this team can't do what they did even better than they did it. Ours is the better team.

[Gunakor]

The problem as I see it is that his concussions were sustained on routine plays, with no penalties called, while the rules to protect QBs were already in place. Both were plays that you really can't protect him from with rules or play calls because they were just routine football situations. Sure, you can avoid calling QB sneaks and warn him to slide, but the types of hits in which he got concussions can happen anytime he drops back to pass. Two in short succession were a red flag for me, and with the medical scrutiny now given to concussions he will miss playing time. If (when) he gets a third one, he very well could miss multiple games.

Wasn't the one he sustained in Detroit on a long first down carry in which Rodgers did not slide after picking up the first down? If I'm remembering that one right, that scenario is a preventable one.

[Lurker64]

Wasn't the one he sustained in Detroit on a long first down carry in which Rodgers did not slide after picking up the first down? If I'm remembering that one right, that scenario is a preventable one.

It was. Rodgers definitely made an effort to go out of bounds or slide after picking up the first down when challenged by a defender after this. He also changed his helmet design from the one that's rated worst in terms of "concussion prevention" among the helmets that NFL players use to the one of the helmets that's rated best in terms of "concussion prevention".

It's also probably worth noting that, were it not for modern emphasis on concussions in the game, one or both of Rodgers' injuries would have passed without notice.

I'm not sure on which play he suffered the concussion against Washington, though.

[Patler]

Wasn't the one he sustained in Detroit on a long first down carry in which Rodgers did not slide after picking up the first down? If I'm remembering that one right, that scenario is a preventable one.

He was tackled. How do you prevent him from being tackled? The fact he ran a long way is irrelevant. Besides, the field was wide open and he took off. Yes, he should have taken a dive at the end, but you will never prevent him from being tackled completely. Yes,he was hit in the head at the end, but it wasn't excessively vicious (no penalty). Again, something you can't prevent completely. QBs get hit harder than that in the pocket.

[Patler]

It's also probably worth noting that, were it not for modern emphasis on concussions in the game, one or both of Rodgers' injuries would have passed without notice.

That's exactly why it is even more of a concern. With Rodgers history, he will get even more scrutiny.

[MJZiggy]

That's exactly why it is even more of a concern. With Rodgers history, he will get even more scrutiny.

I'm not completely convinced it's the death knell to his career, though. I think if he can stay healthy for a season or two, folk'll start to pay attention less to the concussions. I'd say they start to forget, but you guys remember the scores to both Lions games from the 1972 season, so I won't go quite that far...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed. When you combine arm strength + accuracy + ability to throw on the run, I'd rank Rodgers as the best in the game. If it were just arm strength + accuracy, it's close between him and Manning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeffri&id=6708446

1. Best QB arm: Aaron Rodgers -- Anybody who saw this Green Bay Packers quarterback play last postseason had to be impressed by his ability to throw the football. It wasn't just that Rodgers had a strong arm. He also had the ability to squeeze the football into places that few quarterbacks ever dare to go.

How can you forget the sight of hapless defenders futilely reaching their arms out for passes that zipped past their fingertips and into the hands of Rodgers' receivers? He made two such throws in the Super Bowl (including a late completion that helped seal that victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers), and he did it often in a jaw-dropping performance in an NFC divisional playoff win over Atlanta (Rodgers completed 31 of 36 passes for 366 yards and three touchdowns).

In fact, Rodgers has spent most of the last three seasons using that arm to become a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback. Now, that isn't to say there aren't other signal-callers who can throw the football farther or harder than Rodgers. It's simply hard to find another quarterback who can make so many difficult throws look so easy in the process.

[Little Whiskey]

you guys remember the scores to both Lions games from the 1972 season, so I won't go quite that far...

24-23 packers win
33-7 packers win

[Patler]

I'm not completely convinced it's the death knell to his career, though. I think if he can stay healthy for a season or two, folk'll start to pay attention less to the concussions. I'd say they start to forget, but you guys remember the scores to both Lions games from the 1972 season, so I won't go quite that far...

Not the death knell of his career, but perhaps likely to make his career a shorter career than it otherwise might have been, and perhaps likely to cause him to miss games from time to time.

I read an article once that went into detail about concussions in sports. One of the points it made was that anyone can get one, and it doesn't have to be a concern if the symptoms go away quickly. However, if the symptoms linger, or the athlete gets a second one quite soon after the first, the chances of him getting more increase significantly. Rodgers got a second, and the effect of the second lingered.

Recall that in the championship game Rodgers got hit by Peppers (who was later fined), and was clearly shaken up. Rodgers denies anything from it, but the next couple plays he looked "off". The next week several neurologists (I think) were interviewed and said that his mannerisms and actions immediately after the hit and for several plays after looked concussion-like, but of course they would not commit to anything.

The NFL Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee insists that their "rigorous" testing before a player is cleared to play again puts a player back at 0, and his likelihood of getting another concussion is no greater than if he had never had previous ones. Others insist that is wrong, and that there is a cumulative effect that can take months and months to get over.

Whether the effect is cumulative or two or more simply show a physical vulnerability to getting concussions, from a practical observation it seems like those who have several often get more with greater frequency and under lesser and lesser impacts. Al Toon's career with the jets ended after 8 seasons because of concussions. Steve Young retired because of repeated concussions. Young had a fairly long career, but in six of the years he really didn't play very much. He really only had 9 seasons in which he started more than just a few games (18 stars in the other 6 seasons). Basically, it amounted to a 10 year career. Aikman insists that his repeated concussions had nothing to do with his retirement, but many around him disagree after Dallas waived him and no one else picked him up. He was getting concussions on simple tackles, and was reported to have had more than 10. Chris Miller "retired" because of concussions, and some say he really only wanted to take a year off so his head could clear. It didn't.

I will not be surprised if Rodgers gets more concussions and misses a game or two when they happen. It will be imperative for the Packers to have a capable backup at QB. I will not be surprised if 6 or 7 years from now he decides to go on to his other business interests. Rodgers is a bright guy. As more and more is learned about the long-term effect of concussions, if Rodgers has sustained more concussions, he very well could decide it just isn't worth the risk anymore. He will be a very wealthy man (or at least should be) and should be able to do whatever he wants to do.

Clearly he had two. Perhaps he had a third. I'm not sure he will ever adjust his game to be able to avoid being tackled as well as Favre did, and I'm not sure I would want him to. I think concussions might always be a factor for him, just as they have been for many other QBs as well as other players.

[mraynrand]

It just makes no sense at all to think McCarthy is going to pull a Holgrem. Im not going to even waste my time arguing about it.


I agree. McCarthy doesn't at all come across like "The Big Show." He's shown absolutely no sign of wanting to run everything. He's said he wants to coach the rest of his life in GB. Dammit, I hope Stubby does, because it'll mean the guy is a long-term consistent winner. Maybe he's a Don Shula, but with a few more rings!

[mraynrand]

Solid post up there Patler. My view is that the Rodger's concussions are (by far) the single greatest concern for the Packers (not to mention Rodgers himself), and the biggest threat to their near-term success (the next five years). I see it being very likely (50-50) that the Packers are looking for their next franchise QB within 4 years. It's a damn shame, but the pattern and history of concussions suggests that Rodgers will not last long.

[ThunderDan]

I'm not completely convinced it's the death knell to his career, though. I think if he can stay healthy for a season or two, folk'll start to pay attention less to the concussions. I'd say they start to forget, but you guys remember the scores to both Lions games from the 1972 season, so I won't go quite that far...

Exactly right! Remember when Rodgers first came out he was considered "fragile". Trips to the IR as Favre's backup. I was extremely worried in 2008 that we would have to play a backup QB for some period of time. Then ARod survived the 34 sack season in 2008 and the 51 sack season in 2009. At that point "fragile" was removed from the Arod discussion.

Now he gets 2 concussions and that is what people are focusing on (and rightfully so). ARod changed equipment and is much quicker to get to the ground now. WE will just have to watch 2011 and beyond to see if this issue effects Arod's career.

[RashanGary]

How about this for a catching HOF inducing slogan (assuming AR gets 3 rings :) ). . . .

#4 x 3 = #12

With a picture of Favre laying on the turf, Rodgers three rings and AR at the SB MVP podium :) :)


Maybe even a couple Lambeau Field images, one filled with numbers written in small font, representing Favre's records with one big ring and a lot of empty space. We could have an image of Favre with his head down in narcissistic shame. The other Lambeau Field with three big rings, filling the space completely and Rodgers head above with spiritual light radiating an aura over Lambeau Field.

And then Starr standing above it all with his back turned to Favre, shaking AR's hand with approval and Favre trying to get his head in, looking for attention. A whole group of fans could have their heads turned to Rodgers clapping with a few wearing purple #4's are on the ground, kissing Favre's feet while Favre ignores them :)

I think it would do great justice for Rodgers steady aura and also great justice for Favre's selfish arrogance mixed with his extreme head hanging shame.

Maybe call it the leader and the malignant narcissist or something like that.

[Patler]

Now he gets 2 concussions and that is what people are focusing on (and rightfully so). ARod changed equipment and is much quicker to get to the ground now. WE will just have to watch 2011 and beyond to see if this issue effects Arod's career.

I agree, 2011 could be a very telling year. The new helmet is an interesting topic. For some reason Rodgers clearly avoids any questions about what makes the helmet different. He avoided them last year, and did again this summer just a few days ago when he was asked about his helmet. Seems strange. I'm not trying to imply anything, but I AM curious about the helmet, and a little befuddled about why Rodgers is so secretive about it.

There was recently a "concussion" helmet that came under scrutiny when tests showed it provided no advantages. I can't remember if it was a football design or a hockey design. I read an engineering study on helmets one time, and they showed one that engineers and doctors agreed would work significantly in reducing some concussion events. Problem was that it was integral with the shoulder pads, included mini-shock absorbers and was very cumbersome. :lol:

[mraynrand]

I agree, 2011 could be a very telling year. The new helmet is an interesting topic. For some reason Rodgers clearly avoids any questions about what makes the helmet different. He avoided them last year, and did again this summer just a few days ago when he was asked about his helmet. Seems strange. I'm not trying to imply anything, but I AM curious about the helmet, and a little befuddled about why Rodgers is so secretive about it.

There was recently a "concussion" helmet that came under scrutiny when tests showed it provided no advantages. I can't remember if it was a football design or a hockey design. I read an engineering study on helmets one time, and they showed one that engineers and doctors agreed would work significantly in reducing some concussion events. Problem was that it was integral with the shoulder pads, included mini-shock absorbers and was very cumbersome. :lol:

I've been telling you guys, the only he chance he has is to use the Great Gazoo helmet....

http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/3837865507_2f79603bfb.jpg

You have to have specialized crumple zones to absorb the impact so it isn't all translated to the brain.

[sharpe1027]

He was tackled. How do you prevent him from being tackled? The fact he ran a long way is irrelevant. Besides, the field was wide open and he took off. Yes, he should have taken a dive at the end, but you will never prevent him from being tackled completely. Yes,he was hit in the head at the end, but it wasn't excessively vicious (no penalty). Again, something you can't prevent completely. QBs get hit harder than that in the pocket.

At least each time he slides it is one less tackle, even if in the pocket is the same thing. :)

I wonder if the injury data correlated to the amount of times a QB gets hit in the pocket vs. running down field would suggest that one is more dangerous of if they are the same. The distance of how far he ran may not be important, but the fact that both himself and a defender could get a head of steam going seems to bring in different dynamics than a QB standing in the pocket with lineman trying to slow down the rushers. IDK.

[RashanGary]

Decent football player

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2009/9/14/1252922662011/Aaron-Rodgers-left-breaks-002.jpg

[ThunderDan]

I've been telling you guys, the only he chance he has is to use the Great Gazoo helmet....

http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/3837865507_2f79603bfb.jpg

You have to have specialized crumple zones to absorb the impact so it isn't all translated to the brain.

Hey look it's ..... Eli Manning and his goofy helmet!

[Bossman641]

I agree, 2011 could be a very telling year. The new helmet is an interesting topic. For some reason Rodgers clearly avoids any questions about what makes the helmet different. He avoided them last year, and did again this summer just a few days ago when he was asked about his helmet. Seems strange. I'm not trying to imply anything, but I AM curious about the helmet, and a little befuddled about why Rodgers is so secretive about it.

There was recently a "concussion" helmet that came under scrutiny when tests showed it provided no advantages. I can't remember if it was a football design or a hockey design. I read an engineering study on helmets one time, and they showed one that engineers and doctors agreed would work significantly in reducing some concussion events. Problem was that it was integral with the shoulder pads, included mini-shock absorbers and was very cumbersome. :lol:

It's not just Rodgers keeping quiet, the Packers have been in general. I have no idea why, it's quite strange.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/110201_tuesday_morning_quarterback&sportCat=nfl

Aaron Rodgers of the Packers, who will start at quarterback in the upcoming Super Bowl, just switched to a helmet he thinks offers superior protection. Rodgers says the helmet prevented a concussion when he took a brutal blow to the head from Julius Peppers of the Chicago Bears in the NFC Championship Game.

So a Super Bowl quarterback has found a helmet that might reduce the concussion plague, protecting huge numbers of football players at the college, high school and youth levels. Good news?

Here's the catch -- Rodgers won't tell you what kind of helmet he switched to. Neither will the Green Bay Packers. A Super Bowl quarterback and his team have information that might increase neurological safety -- and won't share it.

During the regular season, Rodgers suffered two concussions. When he returned to the field late in the year, Rodgers said he had switched to a helmet that reduces concussion risk. But he wouldn't be specific, leaving college and high school coaches and players in the dark. A month ago, Tuesday Morning Quarterback asked the Packers to reveal the type of helmet on Rodgers' head, and a Packers spokesman said the team would not.

After the NFC title game, Rodgers told Peter King of NBC he thought his new helmet prevented the vicious hit by Peppers -- whom the league fined $10,000 for unnecessary roughness -- from causing another concussion. "As much as the new helmet feels uncomfortable and I'm still getting used to it, I'm really happy I was wearing it on that hit,'' Rodgers said to King. But King's report did not include the critical item of information that all other football players, and the parents of young players, need -- namely, what kind of helmet.

So I asked the Packers again. Jeff Blumb, the team's director of public relations, told me, "I did check again on your behalf, and that's still not information we're comfortable sharing outside of our building."

[Guiness]

Bossman, dollars to donuts it has something to do with the helmet not being the 'Official NFL helmet' by Riddell(tm), hence the label, etc must be covered up...

[Patler]

Bossman, dollars to donuts it has something to do with the helmet not being the 'Official NFL helmet' by Riddell(tm), hence the label, etc must be covered up...

Excellent deduction! That would explain why they won't mention what helmet it is. I wonder if they had to get special permission from the league if it is not "official" equipment?

[Patler]

I've been telling you guys, the only he chance he has is to use the Great Gazoo helmet....

http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/3837865507_2f79603bfb.jpg

You have to have specialized crumple zones to absorb the impact so it isn't all translated to the brain.


Hey look it's ..... Eli Manning and his goofy helmet!

Doesn't Rodgers now wear the same helmet as Manning? I thought he mentioned that when he first used it.

[mraynrand]

Doesn't Rodgers now wear the same helmet as Manning? I thought he mentioned that when he first used it.


Shhhhhh....it's a secret!

[channtheman]

I do think that article is kind of stupid just a few posts up. "Why are the Packers keeping this secret from all the poor little high school players who NEED this information!?" Give me a break.

[mraynrand]

Doesn't Rodgers now wear the same helmet as Manning?

I was wondering how this would work. Can the NFL guarantee that the Colts and Packers never play at the same time? Can the Helmet be repainted, re-logoed and FedExed fast enough between cities to make it happen? This whole plan seems fraught with difficulties.

[sharpe1027]

I was wondering how this would work. Can the NFL guarantee that the Colts and Packers never play at the same time? Can the Helmet be repainted, re-logoed and FedExed fast enough between cities to make it happen? This whole plan seems fraught with difficulties.

Maybe the NFL will change the schedule to be sure that they always play each other and Rodgers and Manning can agree that neither of them will play defense against the other.

[SkinBasket]

I do think that article is kind of stupid just a few posts up. "Why are the Packers keeping this secret from all the poor little high school players who NEED this information!?" Give me a break.

I thought the same thing. It's a fucking football helmet, not the cure for cancer, premature ejaculation, and childhood obesity.

[Deputy Nutz]

High school athletes have not a clue with what they put on their head. They have the coach or an athletic trainer pick one off the shelf and fit it on their head. It is the coaches and athletic directors. and the athletic trainer's responsibility to pick out the safest product for their athletes. All the helmets they have to choose from have to be mandated by High School Football association, and the governing body of the State high school athletics.

[mraynrand]

Maybe the NFL will change the schedule to be sure that they always play each other and Rodgers and Manning can agree that neither of them will play defense against the other.

Another complication is that Manning has a much larger head - at least along the Z-axis

[sharpe1027]

Another complication is that Manning has a much larger head - at least along the Z-axis

The would also need to change the wireless play calling equipment. Or I suppose they could just let one coach call plays for both teams.

[Bossman641]

Excellent deduction! That would explain why they won't mention what helmet it is. I wonder if they had to get special permission from the league if it is not "official" equipment?

I remembered reading all this before and found the follow-up article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/110208_tuesday_morning_quarterback&sportCat=nfl


What You Need to Know About Aaron Rodgers' Helmet: Last week, I took the Green Bay Packers to task for refusing to say what kind of helmet Aaron Rodgers switched to after his early-season concussions. Rodgers has said the new helmet protected him in a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit in the NFC title game. Across college and high school football, many players, coaches and parents aren't sure which helmets on the market afford the best protection. I asserted that with concussions an issue of wide concern, the public needed to know what Rodgers would wear in the Super Bowl. For that matter the public needed to know what the other starting quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger, would wear -- Roethlisberger switched helmet types this past spring, hoping to avoid another concussion.

In the Super Bowl, Rodgers wore the Schutt Air XP and Roethlisberger wore the Riddell Revo Speed. Both helmets have advanced features that reduce -- but surely do not eliminate -- concussion incidence. These, and a few similar models, should be on the heads of every high school, college and pro football player. Unfortunately, even many NFL players continue to wear helmets with inferior engineering.

Here's a primer. Until 2002, almost all football helmets were "shell" designs -- smooth globe shapes, with the outer part fairly close to the player's head. Shell helmets did a good job of protecting the skull -- as recently as the 1960s, football deaths from fractured skulls were distressingly common -- but not such a good job of protecting the brain inside the skull. Concussions, long a problem in many contact sports (and in other sports such as diving), became more of an issue as football players grew stronger and faster, colliding with increased force.

In 2002, Riddell, the NFL's official supplier, began to sell the Revolution, the first helmet designed with concussion reduction in mind. The Revo had more "standoff" than traditional helmets -- more distance between the player's head and the outside. More "standoff" means more space for cushioning. Research found that players wearing Revos were about one-third less likely than other players to suffer concussions. So the new helmet idea was an improvement, though no panacea. Nobody has yet come up with a panacea for concussions, not even on paper.

James Collins, at that time the football coach at my kids' high school, followed sports medical research; when he heard about the Revo, in 2004, parents staged a fundraising drive to equip the football team with those helmets. That put a high school ahead of most of the NFL and NCAA, which did not rush to embrace the Revo. Why? Compared with traditional shell helmets, players thought the Revo looked funny, giving them a space-alien appearance. At the high school level, you wear what you are handed. But in the NFL, players are allowed to choose what they wear, and many would not place a Revo on their heads. The most common NFL helmet continued to be the Riddell VSR4, a 20-year-old design that is outdated but offers a smooth shell appearance players find stylish.

Schutt, the other leading helmet manufacturer, soon began to sell two advanced models, the DNA and the Ion, with concussion-resistant engineering, including improved cushioning material. Same problem: These helmets' large "standoff" made players think they looked funny. Glenn Beckmann, a Schutt official, told me, "The DNA and the Ion absorb more impact than other models, but there is a tradeoff and, in the player's mind, an important one. It's the 'mirror test.' One of the first things a player does when he puts a helmet on is walk to the mirror to see how it looks. Current players in the NFL grew up with the traditional standoff helmet shells. From the time they started playing as a kid, that's what they've been comfortable with. They're not accustomed to seeing larger helmets on their heads. So when they try on one of the large standoff helmets, they don't like the way it looks. It's a reason the most widely worn helmet in the NFL is still the Riddell VSR4, a traditional helmet. It looks the way players think a helmet should look."

Why would NFL players not want to reduce concussion risk? Many muscular young men believe they are invincible. Others are fatalistic -- believing that if a concussion is going to happen it will happen, regardless of headgear.

Aware of the aesthetic issue, Riddell introduced a new model, the Revo Speed, with advanced concussion resistance but more similar to the traditional shell look. Schutt's response was the Air XP -- better concussion protection, traditional appearance. The new Rawlings Quantum, out soon, has the same set of design goals -- better concussion resistance in a traditional fashion look. Bucking the trend is the Xenith X1, made by a startup firm, which is proudly bobblehead in appearance but aims for maximum protection.

Today, many NFL players continue to wear the obsolete VSR-4 and similar models: The NFL encourages use of advanced helmets but won't mandate this. The NFL appears to believe that mandating any particular helmet would make the league liable for any harm someone might suffer after donning a helmet of that type. As TMQ detailed here in November, this view is likely to be incorrect, in legal terms. But the belief is common in the NFL. The NCAA won't mandate helmet types either, though many colleges simply require players to wear nothing but advanced Schutt or Riddell helmets.

As for Roethlisberger, after having concussion problems in 2009, he switched in 2010 from the VSR-4 to the Revo Speed. He's had no problems since. After Rodgers suffered two concussions this past fall, he switched to the Air XP. This helmet is not quite as advanced as the same company's DNA and Ion models, but the Air XP looks cool, so players will put it on their heads. When DeSean Jackson suffered a concussion early in the 2010 season, he switched to an Air XP.

TMQ's contention is that the NFL should mandate that only advanced helmets -- the Revo and Revo Speed, the Schutt Ion, DNA and Air XP, the Xenith and the upcoming Rawlings Quantum -- be allowed. Hines Ward of the Steelers noted at Super Bowl media day that if the NFL really means what it says about reducing concussion incidence, why doesn't it require players to wear the safest helmets? That the NFL will not require maximum safety because it seems to fear liability more than it wants health reflects very poorly on the league. Yes, NFL players are grown men who are aware of risks. But the league doesn't allow them to choose what color socks to wear. Why does it allow them to choose inferior helmets?

If the NFL switched to mandating that players wear the safest headgear, this would set a positive example for the high school ranks. Far too many high schools buy whatever helmet's cheapest, in part because equipment salesmen can say, truthfully, that the NFL doesn't mandate helmet safety. Time for that to change.

Parents of football players -- the Riddell Revo and Revo Speed, the Schutt DNA, Ion and Air XP, the Xenith X1 and the forthcoming Rawlings Quantum are designed to reduce the chance of concussions. Other helmets are not. What more do you need to know?

The article still doesn't address how he eventually found out what helmet Rodgers wears or why the Packers were keeping it secret in the first place, but it seems that the Packers and Rodgers were worried about indirectly supporting a specific helmet and did not want to set themselves up for any kind of liability.

NFL players are free to wear any helmet they wish without special permission btw.

Discussing Rodgers' helmet....Is it the offseason?? Hahah

[mraynrand]

Bucking the trend is the Xenith X1, made by a startup firm, which is proudly bobblehead in appearance but aims for maximum protection.

Pride goeth before a Bobblehead.