The Weakest Area of Every Team's Roster in 2011

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/749151-the-weakest-area-of-every-teams-nfl-roster-in-2011

GO PACK GO !

[packrat]

They missed on the Packers--their weak spot is third string quarterback.

[Guiness]

If that's our weakness, we are in good shape for sure (not that anyone here needs to be told).

When you've got a guy who everyone in the league is wishing they had at the position, and it's considered your weak spot (no matter who is on the other side!) you're in good shape for sure.

[Patler]

This does really show that the Packers are a strong team. If you look at their roster regarding the starting positions, OLB opposite Matthews might be the biggest "concern". Jenkin's DE spot and Colledge's spot at guard may be iffy if they don't return, but there seem to be decent prospects to fill them. So that leaves the one OLB spot. But how weak is it?

Jones, Zombo, Walden and Poppinga had 16 starts last year. They combined for 104 tackles and 8 sacks. Collectively they do not make Matthews, but they can't be ignored either. Mathews had sacks in 9 games. JonesZomboWaldenPoppinga had sacks in 6 games, including 3 games in which Matthews did not have sacks. Therefore, the OLBs had sacks in 12 of the 16 games.

Not bad for their biggest weakness.

[hoosier]

One of the most impressive defensive stats from last year's Packers was their ability to get to the QB while rushing 4 or less. They ranked third (sacked QB on 7.9% of attempts), and their success rate was only marginally less than when blitzing (8.9%) whereas with many teams the sack % is close to double when blitzing as compared to not blitzing. I suppose that speaks more to the job done by their front three, and to Capers's ability to create confusion without compromising the coverage scheme. But it probably also means that the absence of another sack specialist opposite CMIII isn't as big a deal as I thought it was last summer.

[Tarlam!]

I remember reading(where?) around draft time that the other OLB position should be addressed. But one commentator (who?) said that was nonsense because CMIII isn't very good dropping into coverage. Also, it's rare to send 2 OLB after the QB on the same play, so, the Packers would in fact weaken CMIII by attempting to solve the socalled problem.

I have no idea whether or not there's any merit to the suggestion.

[Gunakor]

I remember reading(where?) around draft time that the other OLB position should be addressed. But one commentator (who?) said that was nonsense because CMIII isn't very good dropping into coverage. Also, it's rare to send 2 OLB after the QB on the same play, so, the Packers would in fact weaken CMIII by attempting to solve the socalled problem.

I have no idea whether or not there's any merit to the suggestion.


One of the advantages to the 3-4 is the doubt placed into the minds of the offensive line as to where the rush is coming from. To make our 3-4 truly effective, CMIII has to learn to drop into coverage on occasion and his counterpart on the other side has to get to the QB from time to time. Generally you wouldn't send both OLB on a pass rush on the same play, but the threat of either coming on any given down is essential to the success of the defense as a whole. Otherwise OL's would simply shift protection to CMIII's side every down, minimizing the effectiveness of the rush. I think that would weaken CMIII more than the occasional drop into coverage would.

I think whoever said that the need/desire for an edge rusher to complement CMIII was nonsense was stuck on what was best for CMIII, with no concern for what's best for the defense overall. Matthews' sack numbers might go down, but the team total would go up. More blind side hits on the QB could result in more forced fumbles, the added confusion could lead to more interceptions. I see nothing but positives in finding another solid OLB to provide a legitimate pass rush threat from the other side.

[Guiness]

If Raji can learn to drop into coverage, anyone can!

As Patler pointed out, the 'other' side had 8 sacks last year. Three were by Walden in week 17, but I don't think anyone's complaining about that. Hardly a weak position. I'm sure it benefited from coverage being shifted to Mathews, but the trio of players over there did produce.

[Smidgeon]

If Raji can learn to drop into coverage, anyone can!

As Patler pointed out, the 'other' side had 8 sacks last year. Three were by Walden in week 17, but I don't think anyone's complaining about that. Hardly a weak position. I'm sure it benefited from coverage being shifted to Mathews, but the trio of players over there did produce.

+1

[RashanGary]

+1

Both Matthews and Raji receive extra attention. That's a big part of it. Having Jenkins put us over the top. Hopefully Neal can play at that level. He's shown enough flashes where it's a real possibility.

[Smidgeon]

Both Matthews and Raji receive extra attention. That's a big part of it. Having Jenkins put us over the top. Hopefully Neal can play at that level. He's shown enough flashes where it's a real possibility.

Enough flashes? He played in two games, got one sack and one forced fumble (in different games). He's shown some flashes, but not enough that I'm confident in his ability yet. Harrell flashed more his rookie year and was available more.

[RashanGary]

Huh, we'll see. I thought Neal flashed brilliance at times, but time will have to tell on that one. I'm not worried about stats. I thought he showed dominance in spurts as a rookie. He's one of the young players on this team who's ceiling I"m most excited about.

[Guiness]

Enough flashes? He played in two games, got one sack and one forced fumble (in different games). He's shown some flashes, but not enough that I'm confident in his ability yet. Harrell flashed more his rookie year and was available more.

Did he really?

I seem to remember comments more along the line that he didn't have much push or collapse the pocket, and was looking more like a good run stopper than someone who could be impactfull. Maybe I mis-remember?

[bobblehead]

One of the most impressive defensive stats from last year's Packers was their ability to get to the QB while rushing 4 or less. They ranked third (sacked QB on 7.9% of attempts), and their success rate was only marginally less than when blitzing (8.9%) whereas with many teams the sack % is close to double when blitzing as compared to not blitzing. I suppose that speaks more to the job done by their front three, and to Capers's ability to create confusion without compromising the coverage scheme. But it probably also means that the absence of another sack specialist opposite CMIII isn't as big a deal as I thought it was last summer.

We also benefited from "coverage" sacks. We have good CB's and our zone took away the underneath stuff giving that front 3/4 extra time.

That being said we are one very good OLB away from a DOMINATING defense as opposed to a really good one.

[RashanGary]

It could be another dominant DL to pair with Raji too. Losing Jenkins hurts, but a Jenkins isn't truly dominant. It wouldn't matter where the pass rush came, DL or OLB. Pass rush is pass rush.

[Smidgeon]

Did he really?

I seem to remember comments more along the line that he didn't have much push or collapse the pocket, and was looking more like a good run stopper than someone who could be impactfull. Maybe I mis-remember?

I just remember being pointed out that Harrell showed exceptional rookie ability to shed blocks, work down the line, and make run tackles. He was never going to be Raji with his pass rush ability. But he was going to be a defensive end you couldn't run towards or around. In the mold of Pickett.

But my comment comparing Harrell to Neal is that Neal played in 2 games. Harrell played in decidedly more. So even if Neal flashed more often, Harrell was still available more. A little ironic looking back...

I still have hope for Harrell. Slight hope. But hope.

[bobblehead]

It could be another dominant DL to pair with Raji too. Losing Jenkins hurts, but a Jenkins isn't truly dominant. It wouldn't matter where the pass rush came, DL or OLB. Pass rush is pass rush.

Agreed, but in the 3-4 D, the OLB are supposed to be the playmaker/disruptors. I would take it from a DL, but its just more rare in the 3-4.

[RashanGary]

Seymore, Mario Williams, Peppers, Randy Starks, Justin Smith, Jay Ratliff, Dockett, Suh, Fairly, Kevin Williams, Jenkins and many others could do it. Mike Neal might even turn into a special player. It's not like TT picks are that far of fetches to be stars, especially in the 1st or 2nd rounds.

I'd prefer DL over OLB to be honest.

[Bretsky]

Huh, we'll see. I thought Neal flashed brilliance at times, but time will have to tell on that one. I'm not worried about stats. I thought he showed dominance in spurts as a rookie. He's one of the young players on this team who's ceiling I"m most excited about.


I buy into this; in the limited time I saw Neal I thought he showed great upside

[Bretsky]

I just remember being pointed out that Harrell showed exceptional rookie ability to shed blocks, work down the line, and make run tackles. He was never going to be Raji with his pass rush ability. But he was going to be a defensive end you couldn't run towards or around. In the mold of Pickett.

But my comment comparing Harrell to Neal is that Neal played in 2 games. Harrell played in decidedly more. So even if Neal flashed more often, Harrell was still available more. A little ironic looking back...

I still have hope for Harrell. Slight hope. But hope.


Never bought into Harrell; to me he didn't show any explosiveness and wasn't going to be much even when healthy. He was a clogger; we can find them.

Neal seemed to be overpowering at times and IMO he had some explosiveness.

[Patler]

I can't get too excited about a guy who played in just two games and had a total of 3 tackles. I feel no different about Neal now than I did when he was drafted. Lots of potential, but he hasn't done enough against different teams in different situations to have any more promise than he did as a rookie.

[Bretsky]

Part of the upside I guess comes from a belief that the player has incredible strength and the abilty to be explosive. He showed a little of that in GB as well as in the Big Ten.

I didn't see Justine play at Tennessee and certainly didn't see anyting out of Harrell in GB to get me as pumped as I am about Neal long term

[Patler]

Part of the upside I guess comes from a belief that the player has incredible strength and the abilty to be explosive. He showed a little of that in GB as well as in the Big Ten.

I agree, and those are the same impressions I had about him before he played a down as a Packer. What little he did play last year doesn't give me any more or any less reasons to be confident in what he will do as a pro.


I didn't see Justine play at Tennessee and certainly didn't see anyting out of Harrell in GB to get me as pumped as I am about Neal long term

With the information I had about both when they were drafted, before either set foot on a Packer practice field, I can honestly say my first impressions were that I expected more from Harrell than from Neal. Many said Harrell was a legitimate top ten prospect except for not having played much as a senior. I didn't see anyone who rated Neal that highly. I don't think we have ever seen Harrell play healthy, not even as a rookie. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy. I have known other athletes who had the desire, talent, work ethic and intangibles to play their sports at very high levels, but their bodies wouldn't allow them to. It is a bitter disappointment for them. I hope Neal doesn't follow a similar path. The Packers need him and/or Wilson to step up this year in place of Jenkins.

[RashanGary]

I think Neal is to 5 techs as Raji is to NT's.

Raji is a huge man, very powerful and explosive and a lot quicker than you'd expect for a guy his size.

Neal isn't as heavy as Raji, he's quick, and he has unusual power and explosiveness for a guy his size.


Of course, Raji has the anchor to play inside and Neal has a little more length and ability to slide down the line to play on the outside. I think both players set everything up with exceptional power and explosiveness.

I'm very intrigued to see Neal play this year. My brother and I watched him in TC quite a bit. Him and Raji just exploded through the line over and over.

[KYPack]

I agree, and those are the same impressions I had about him before he played a down as a Packer. What little he did play last year doesn't give me any more or any less reasons to be confident in what he will do as a pro.



With the information I had about both when they were drafted, before either set foot on a Packer practice field, I can honestly say my first impressions were that I expected more from Harrell than from Neal. Many said Harrell was a legitimate top ten prospect except for not having played much as a senior. I didn't see anyone who rated Neal that highly. I don't think we have ever seen Harrell play healthy, not even as a rookie. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy. I have known other athletes who had the desire, talent, work ethic and intangibles to play their sports at very high levels, but their bodies wouldn't allow them to. It is a bitter disappointment for them. I hope Neal doesn't follow a similar path. The Packers need him and/or Wilson to step up this year in place of Jenkins.

I saw a bunch of tape on Harrell from his UT days (his Junior year play, obviously). The guy looked like Reggie. Strong, quick, explosive. Impossible to contain one on one, you had to double the healthy Harrell in college.

He played a good bit in the last Pre-Season game his rookie year. The guy was illegal against the Titans 2's. Quick and strong, again requiring double teams. At the end of the 3rd quarter, he made "the play lost in time". They were double teaming Harrell. Justin shed the one blocker and seized the guard, backing him up to the QB. When the QB set up, Harrell shed the blocker and caused the QB to lose the ball. Harrell grabbed it out of the air and returned it for a TD. It was (an is) one of the best plays I've ever seen a 3 tech make. Harrell had scary talent.

3rd - GB - 14:45 Harrell, 18-yard fumble return (Crosby kick) TIED 14-14

After that game JSO, PR, nobody made mention of this play. I got the scoring line from Aaron Kramer's site. There is no mention the play in the account of the game at that site. It's like it never happened. Shit, I figured there would be a little story box on the play like "Tennessee Draft pick shows a flash", but nothing. I've mentioned the play to people and have been told it didn't happen.

But it did. Harrell did play last Pre-season, but I've never seen the quickness and shove that he showed a brief glimpse of in 07. Last year, he got hurt on a field goal attempt in the first game. I don't think he can come back and do much, but man, it's be great if he did.

[Patler]

I saw a bunch of tape on Harrell from his UT days (his Junior year play, obviously). The guy looked like Reggie. Strong, quick, explosive. Impossible to contain one on one, you had to double the healthy Harrell in college.

He played a good bit in the last Pre-Season game his rookie year. The guy was illegal against the Titans 2's. Quick and strong, again requiring double teams. At the end of the 3rd quarter, he made "the play lost in time". They were double teaming Harrell. Justin shed the one blocker and seized the guard, backing him up to the QB. When the QB set up, Harrell shed the blocker and caused the QB to lose the ball. Harrell grabbed it out of the air and returned it for a TD. It was (an is) one of the best plays I've ever seen a 3 tech make. Harrell had scary talent.

3rd - GB - 14:45 Harrell, 18-yard fumble return (Crosby kick) TIED 14-14

After that game JSO, PR, nobody made mention of this play. I got the scoring line from Aaron Kramer's site. There is no mention the play in the account of the game at that site. It's like it never happened. Shit, I figured there would be a little story box on the play like "Tennessee Draft pick shows a flash", but nothing. I've mentioned the play to people and have been told it didn't happen.

But it did. Harrell did play last Pre-season, but I've never seen the quickness and shove that he showed a brief glimpse of in 07. Last year, he got hurt on a field goal attempt in the first game. I don't think he can come back and do much, but man, it's be great if he did.

Now that you mention it, I do recall the play. The NFL gamebook records it slightly differently:


Tennessee Titans at 15:00, (1st play from scrimmage 14:54)
1-10-TEN 27 (14:54) (Shotgun) V.Young sacked at TEN 15 for -12 yards (L.Birdine). FUMBLES (L.Birdine),
RECOVERED by GB-J.Harrell at TEN 18. J.Harrell for 18 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

[Guiness]

I think Neal is to 5 techs as Raji is to NT's.

Raji is a huge man, very powerful and explosive and a lot quicker than you'd expect for a guy his size.

Neal isn't as heavy as Raji, he's quick, and he has unusual power and explosiveness for a guy his size.


Of course, Raji has the anchor to play inside and Neal has a little more length and ability to slide down the line to play on the outside. I think both players set everything up with exceptional power and explosiveness.

I'm very intrigued to see Neal play this year. My brother and I watched him in TC quite a bit. Him and Raji just exploded through the line over and over.

I've got high hopes for the guy as well, but to say he's going to be every bit the player Raji is after the two regular season games we've seen out of him is a reach!

[Tarlam!]

Harrell may go down as a bust, but not in the same mold as Tony Manderich. Harrell works his butt off and Gullickson got fired for screwing up his back. He doesn't get mentioned much, but when they ask TT or M3 about him they are full of praise for the work ethic and dedication of the kid.

TT took a risk drafting an injured senior, but from KY's description above, it was one worth taking. I am hoping beyong hope he puts it together this year.

[get louder at lambeau]

Now that you mention it, I do recall the play. The NFL gamebook records it slightly differently:

Hey, I'm unbanned! Thanks, Madtown, you fucking vag.

Anywho, I found the video of Justin Harrell's TD. 1:24 mark-
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2007083006/2007/PRE4/packers@titans/watch

[Smidgeon]

Anywho, I found the video of Justin Harrell's TD. 1:24 mark-
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2007083006/2007/PRE4/packers@titans/watch

Thanks. I wanted to see the play after it was described above...