I could use some help...no laughing please!

[GrnBay007]

OK, it appears my computer may be on it's last leg. It's doing some weird stuff n shit. It's about 7 yrs. old. Is that normal life for a computer? I have a lot of pics on the computer I don't want to lose if she's gone soon. How can I save the pics. The other stuff I don't really care about. I never claimed to know much about computers so any advise should be in the form of "computers for dummies" please. :)

[SkinBasket]

If you're concerned, turn off the computer until you get a USB drive, then move the files onto said USB drive. Later, back them up to several locations. DVDs, on-line storage, or whatever.

The USB drive shouldn't cost you more than $20-$25, unless you've got an assload of pics. I would recommend this one if you can wait the few days to get it, otherwise pick one up from your local walmart or whatever. http://www.amazon.com/Patriot-Xporter-Boost-Flash-PEF16GUSB/dp/B000W1RV0Y/

[MJZiggy]

If you do have an assload of pics, you can pick up an inexpensive external hard drive. I bought one that had a terabyte of memory which is enough to hold every photo I've ever taken or ever will take for the rest of my life. You can also back your taxes and important docs to it.

[Patler]

That raises some questions. Other than capacity, are there differences in flash drives? If there are, what is better and what should be avoided?

What about long term file archiving? I have some stuff that is "keep forever" that I want to have permanent backups for. It's a mixture of pictures; original electronic created files from Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.; scanned images and the like. What is the best memory format for long term archiving, flash drive, disc, peripheral hard drive, tape drives or what? I'm not as concerned about transfer speed as I am about permanency and quality. I'm willing to spend some money for quality.

Oh, and I'm not too excited about on-line storage. I want something I can control.

[SkinBasket]

I avoid on-line storage as well. It's good in theory, but I just don't like the idea.

From what I've heard, the physical media like DVD are best for long term storage, as long as you're not accessing the data regularly, and it is kept at regular temperatures. Apparently, the laser accessing the data is what causes degradation, but it would take a massive amount of accessing. If it's really important, I would probably make a couple copies onto disc and put one is a safety deposit box or at least a fireproof box and keep the other in hard cases where you keep the rest of your important crap. And then keep it on a flash drive for handy access as well. I chose the Patriot because it's coated in rubber, so I can drop it and spill stuff on it, and because it has a lifetime warranty. The one I ordered a couple years ago was from a bad batch. Support sent me a fixer file to try, then replaced it without any hassle.

I don't like backing up onto external HDD, since we had two hard drives fail, and all it is is a hard drive in a box. I use one, but it's more of a secondary back-up to DVD and flash drive.

Just found this, a couple years old, but covers the basics: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/long-term-personal-data-storage/376

[Patler]

Thanks Skin. The article was very informative. The big thing seems to be staying on top of format changes. I have dozens and dozens of VHS tapes that were recorded at family events, vacations, sporting events, etc. mostly involving my kids. A couple years ago I got a VHS to DVD recorder so I can transfer all of them, since VHS will be forgotten soon. I also got a device to transfer my thousands of 35mm slides to memory cards. I've done a few of each, but really need to set up a "project" for myself to get both tasks completed.

[SkinBasket]

I know. Those projects have a way of not getting done until it's too late because no matter what you buy to help, they're usually still a time consuming pain in the ass.

[Patler]

I'm setting up a new office, with a new computer that will have four monitors. I have a couple USB switches, so I hope to integrate the VHS deck with the setup so I can throw a tape in whenever I'm doing something else in the office.

The 35mm slide transfers will be a headache no matter what. Very labor intensive.

[Zool]

The bad thing about a USB stick is they have a finite amount of read/writes. The bad thing about DVD backup is burning a DVD is not the same as printing one. The burned ones have a shelf life between 5-7 years. The bad thing about external HD's is they are hard drives with moving parts that will fail eventually. Keeping things in multiple locations is the only way to go IMO.

I store everything I want saved on an external hard drive.
I burn a DVD 2-3 times a year with all of my pictures and documents and label them all with the date.

Thats my routine and its pretty inexpensive. I buy a spindle of 100 DVD's at Sams Club cheap and they last me a long time.

[MJZiggy]

Thanks Skin. The article was very informative. The big thing seems to be staying on top of format changes. I have dozens and dozens of VHS tapes that were recorded at family events, vacations, sporting events, etc. mostly involving my kids. A couple years ago I got a VHS to DVD recorder so I can transfer all of them, since VHS will be forgotten soon. I also got a device to transfer my thousands of 35mm slides to memory cards. I've done a few of each, but really need to set up a "project" for myself to get both tasks completed.

Funny, I was just thinking that you'd need to store a cd player along with the CDs in case they stop making CD drives...

[Patler]

The bad thing about DVD backup is burning a DVD is not the same as printing one. The burned ones have a shelf life between 5-7 years.

Really? Is that all the longer they can be expected to last??

[Freak Out]

I have my electronic data stored on a mini server raid array.....that is backed up to a magical cloud protected by purple unicorns.

[Patler]

Funny, I was just thinking that you'd need to store a cd player along with the CDs in case they stop making CD drives...

I DO have a new VHS player that is boxed up and put away just for that purpose. I will keep the VHS tapes even after I copy them.

[MJZiggy]

Here's a crazy idea! What if you printed the really important stuff and kept it in, like, you know, a file cabinet? Radical! :mrgreen:

[Partial]

That raises some questions. Other than capacity, are there differences in flash drives? If there are, what is better and what should be avoided?

What about long term file archiving? I have some stuff that is "keep forever" that I want to have permanent backups for. It's a mixture of pictures; original electronic created files from Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.; scanned images and the like. What is the best memory format for long term archiving, flash drive, disc, peripheral hard drive, tape drives or what? I'm not as concerned about transfer speed as I am about permanency and quality. I'm willing to spend some money for quality.

Oh, and I'm not too excited about on-line storage. I want something I can control.

Online back-up is going to be your best bet. Your second best bet is buying some sort of flash solution. My understanding is flash is pretty much indestructible.

Zool, while flash does have a theorhetical max read/write, the number is ridiculously high and often quoted at much lower than it is. The phDs on my Mac forum who are much smarter than I pretty much concluded that flash is by far and away the best back-up solution. I know one of the phDs keeps one SSD with his research in a safe deposit box at a bank, and keeps another in a firebox in his house. He's a super smart guy (phD in CS) so I trust his judgement on the matter.

[Patler]

Here's a crazy idea! What if you printed the really important stuff and kept it in, like, you know, a file cabinet? Radical! :mrgreen:

For the really important stuff, I have; just as I said I will keep the VHS tapes even after copying them. I suppose I could print many of the slides, but that would get costly, too and the prints or slides are not permanent either. Copying electronically saves the quality as it is now so long as the electronic file remains accessible.

[Zool]

Online back-up is going to be your best bet. Your second best bet is buying some sort of flash solution. My understanding is flash is pretty much indestructible.

Zool, while flash does have a theorhetical max read/write, the number is ridiculously high and often quoted at much lower than it is. The phDs on my Mac forum who are much smarter than I pretty much concluded that flash is by far and away the best back-up solution. I know one of the phDs keeps one SSD with his research in a safe deposit box at a bank, and keeps another in a firebox in his house. He's a super smart guy (phD in CS) so I trust his judgement on the matter.

SSD's have a much higher read/write lifetime than do USB memory sticks. If SSD's were cheaper I would have thrown them into the equation but for now they aren't a great solution for the average person trying to backup pictures and whatnot.

I've seen far too many flash drives go bad to stick with them as a solitary backup.

I also like online backups but I like to keep it as simple as possible for people trying to use a PC at home. Most of the time they arent as nerdy as me and get frustrated easily by technology.

[Zool]

Really? Is that all the longer they can be expected to last??

That's usually the time frame where they start degrading.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/107607/Storage_expert_warns_of_short_life_span_for_burned _CDs

There's a reason they are so cheap to buy.

[Patler]

Is there a progressive degradation of a file, or are we talking about individual files either being readable or not readable? In other words, if the file can be read, is it 100% as it was originally?

[Zool]

Is there a progressive degradation of a file, or are we talking about individual files either being readable or not readable? In other words, if the file can be read, is it 100% as it was originally?

Its actually the media itself breaking down. The dye used is a fairly low grade to keep costs low. If you hold up a CDR or a DVDR to the light you'll be able to see right through it. If the degradation starts in the lead in track the whole thing would be unreadable right then.

[Guiness]

That's usually the time frame where they start degrading.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/107607/Storage_expert_warns_of_short_life_span_for_burned _CDs

There's a reason they are so cheap to buy.

5-7 years? I've never heard a quote that low. Most of what I've seen quotes in the neighborhood of at least 30 years if you buy quality media. Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden (JVC) are the two brands generally considered to be the best.

Here's an article that talks about archival media, and gives you tips on how to find TY disks in the US, since they're not a 'store' brand.
http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media

As you stated above, i think the biggest issue is keeping on top of format changes. How are those 100meg zip disks treating ya? Having said that, DVD's have certainly reached a critical mass where they'll never (at least in our lifetime) totally go away.

[Guiness]

Online back-up is going to be your best bet. Your second best bet is buying some sort of flash solution. My understanding is flash is pretty much indestructible.

Zool, while flash does have a theorhetical max read/write, the number is ridiculously high and often quoted at much lower than it is. The phDs on my Mac forum who are much smarter than I pretty much concluded that flash is by far and away the best back-up solution. I know one of the phDs keeps one SSD with his research in a safe deposit box at a bank, and keeps another in a firebox in his house. He's a super smart guy (phD in CS) so I trust his judgement on the matter.

While it's high, you can certainly hit the 'wall' with SSD's - I did it myself and trashed some $3000 servo drives.

I wrote a program that stored the location of the end of a move. The manual wasn't clear, I thought I was writing to RAM but was actually writing to the SSD. Drive made a move every 10 seconds or so, factory ran 3 shifts...so the machine ran on average about 22h a day. Chips started to fail after 3 months...about 750K r/w operations.

Extreme maybe, but never say never.

[Patler]

All very interesting. I am learning a lot today.

If the problem with a hard drive is not the disc itself but the mechanics of the drive (like bearings), it would seem that a peripheral drive that is started and run only for backup purposes should last a long, long time. I have one now that is switched off except when I run a backup. I flip the power switch, wait for it to boot, run the backup and turn it off again when I am done. Consequently, it is powered up for a short time a couple times each month.

[SkinBasket]

Really? Is that all the longer they can be expected to last??

Reburning your important data every 5 years is probably a good idea no matter how long the media lasts.

[SkinBasket]

All very interesting. I am learning a lot today.

If the problem with a hard drive is not the disc itself but the mechanics of the drive (like bearings), it would seem that a peripheral drive that is started and run only for backup purposes should last a long, long time. I have one now that is switched off except when I run a backup. I flip the power switch, wait for it to boot, run the backup and turn it off again when I am done. Consequently, it is powered up for a short time a couple times each month.

Except you never know when it's going to physically fail. Some will last for years, others for weeks. As Zool pointed out to me when the arm on ours busted and dragged it's pathetic ass all over the disc after about 6 months of light use, HDD don't seem to be made quite like they used to. Mostly because the more storage space, the more parts and platters, the more things can go wrong and a lot of people don't use them for as long as they used to. And just like other storage solutions, they do degrade just sitting there in a static proof baggy in a drawer, which I also learned the hard way.

[Patler]

If I were buying something just for archiving purposes, should I spend a little extra for a consumer grade SSD? No moving parts, right? How is the data actually stored (physics of storage)? What causes failure in these?

Its a given that anything can fail. Absent manufacturing defects, I'm looking for what should be the most reliable.

Then, again, how much longer will I really be around to worry about it anyway??? :lol: :lol:

[SkinBasket]

This is also an interesting topic right now as I'm pressing all 4 of my cores at 98-100% for 3 hours for the first time. I'll come back later to see if my computer caught fire from all the cat dander in it.

[Partial]

If I were buying something just for archiving purposes, should I spend a little extra for a consumer grade SSD? No moving parts, right? How is the data actually stored (physics of storage)? What causes failure in these?

Its a given that anything can fail. Absent manufacturing defects, I'm looking for what should be the most reliable.

Then, again, how much longer will I really be around to worry about it anyway??? :lol: :lol:

I would say yes. There are good deals on SSDs occasionally on Slickdeals.net

[Freak Out]

SSDs for backups? That's fucking money crazy man....do some research and buy some quality hard drives and set up a home server running Ubuntu server or whatever setup in raid. Multiple hard drives with the same data...if one fails you replace it and on you go.....backup online as well and you are set. Hell....online backup is free in many instances. Screw removable media for long term storage as well.

[Freak Out]

Hideaki Takizawa :)

[SkinBasket]

Hideaki Takizawa :)

He's an expert on long term storage of removable media. I trust him.

[MJZiggy]

Online back-up is going to be your best bet. Your second best bet is buying some sort of flash solution. My understanding is flash is pretty much indestructible.

Zool, while flash does have a theorhetical max read/write, the number is ridiculously high and often quoted at much lower than it is. The phDs on my Mac forum who are much smarter than I pretty much concluded that flash is by far and away the best back-up solution. I know one of the phDs keeps one SSD with his research in a safe deposit box at a bank, and keeps another in a firebox in his house. He's a super smart guy (phD in CS) so I trust his judgement on the matter.

For the record, I know a few PhDs. Some are geniuses but then there's the outlier. An ABSOLUTE idiot. I'm not sure how he gets his shoes tied in the morning much less managed a PhD.

[SkinBasket]

For the record, I know a few PhDs. Some are geniuses but then there's the outlier. An ABSOLUTE idiot. I'm not sure how he gets his shoes tied in the morning much less managed a PhD.

Didn't we have this conversation before? I would check, but I'm too lazy to use the newly repaired search function.

[MJZiggy]

Didn't we have this conversation before? I would check, but I'm too lazy to use the newly repaired search function.

It could be. He's an impressively memorable idiot.

[Iron Mike]

I have my electronic data stored on a mini server raid array.....that is backed up to a magical cloud protected by purple unicorns.

http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/19/196e9f9b97acbd5625b7526cf88e57db326aadbd_full.jpg

Breaker, Breaker......come in Earth, this is Rocket Ship 27. Aliens fucked over the carbinator on engine #4....I'm going to try to refuckulate it and land on Juniper.....and hopefully they got some space weed. Over.

[MJZiggy]

http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/19/196e9f9b97acbd5625b7526cf88e57db326aadbd_full.jpg

Breaker, Breaker......come in Earth, this is Rocket Ship 27. Aliens fucked over the carbinator on engine #4....I'm going to try to refuckulate it and land on Juniper.....and hopefully they got some space weed. Over.

That dude looks like the guy from Wis on America's Got Talent last night. What is my life coming to?

[MJZiggy]

OK, it appears my computer may be on it's last leg. It's doing some weird stuff n shit. It's about 7 yrs. old. Is that normal life for a computer? I have a lot of pics on the computer I don't want to lose if she's gone soon. How can I save the pics. The other stuff I don't really care about. I never claimed to know much about computers so any advise should be in the form of "computers for dummies" please. :)
And you thought they'd laugh! It sparked quite a discussion.

[SkinBasket]

It could be. He's an impressively memorable idiot.

No, I mean between you and partial about the value of academic titles. I'm sure he probably came up though.

[GrnBay007]

Thanks! Now I will try to make all that work! :)

[3irty1]

A SSD is overkill unless you only have 10 minutes to move all the files. A usb thumb drive will be slower, cheaper, can power off of usb, is easy, new ones are still rated at 100k+ write cycles and have a lifetime warranty. Anything flash is a poor choice to drop in a time capsule though, the data will eventually be unreadable after sitting for a few centuries.

For the price of a good SSD you might as well start looking at redundant hdd solutions in a nas. This is totally overkill unless those photos are for secret agent intelligence. Backing up online essentially gives you the same benefits without having to understand anything I've written so far. Look into "dropbox" at dropbox.com for a free online backup service that will automatically sync locations you specify to the interwebs.

[MJZiggy]

No, I mean between you and partial about the value of academic titles. I'm sure he probably came up though.

Probably. I don't consider titles to be an absolute determinant of intelligence. Persistence, sure; intelligence not so much.