Partial: Do you still think Rodgers isn't the guy to lead the Packers to the SB?

[RashanGary]

;)

Not that I loved AR from day one, but you fought tooth and nail about how trying to move on from AR was the right move for the Packers if they want to be elite.

Be a man, eat some crow ;)

[3irty1]

He already addressed this in one of his return posts I think.

[channtheman]

Partial actually had/has reasonable points, he just could be a complete ass about them. If I remember correctly, all he was really saying after Rodgers first year was that Rodgers was not yet proven, and we all may have been jumping on the band wagon a little early. Partial never stated his points like "Rodgers doesn't have enough years of this production to be elite yet, but I like what I see." He would rather say "Rodgers is not top 12 and you guys are morons if you think he is."

[Partial]

He's playing like a top 6-7 guy. He was unbelievable in the playoffs and down the stretch. Really blew me away. Almost bought a jersey :-000

[Willard]

He's playing like a top 6-7 guy. He was unbelievable in the playoffs and down the stretch. Really blew me away. Almost bought a jersey :-000

Not good enough. You need a Fathead poster of Rodgers on the ceiling above your bed like the rest of us.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He's playing like a top 3-4 guy. He was unbelievable in the playoffs and down the stretch. Really blew me away. Almost bought a jersey :-000

Fixed.

[RashanGary]

He's playing like a top 6-7 guy. He was unbelievable in the playoffs and down the stretch. Really blew me away. Almost bought a jersey :-000


6-7 :)

That's the Partial I know.

[3irty1]

6-7?!

[MJZiggy]

He's playing like a top 6-7 guy. He was unbelievable in the playoffs and down the stretch. Really blew me away. Almost bought a jersey :-000

Considering his current Super Bowl MVP status, I'd say he's playing more like a top 1 guy at the moment. Sorry, but he's number one until someone dethrones him.

[Freak Out]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVS3WNt7yRU

Welcome back Partial.

[Lurker64]

6-7?!

Well, there are about six or seven QBs who were playing at the elite level last year: Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and maybe Vick.

So the most charitable way to read Partial's statement is "Rodgers was one of the 6-7 elite QBs last year, don't ask me to rank them" (personally, I just put them alphabetically).

[RashanGary]

Yeah, it's not that insane. The group is kind of crowded right now.

Manning (age 35 next season)
Brady (age 34 next season)
Brees (age 32 next season)
Vick (age 31 next season)
Ben (age 29 next season)
Rivers (age 29 next season)
Rodgers (age 27 next season)

Then you have guys like

Matt Ryan (age 26 next season)
Sam Bradford (age 23 next season)
Josh Freeman (23)

And a handful of others who could start challenging the thrown.

Over the next 5-7 years, Rodgers should be in that conversation for best QB in the game.

[bobblehead]

Considering his current Super Bowl MVP status, I'd say he's playing more like a top 1 guy at the moment. Sorry, but he's number one until someone dethrones him.

Nope, Brady is still #1. Rodgers is a close 2nd. I'll take it.

[MJZiggy]

Nope, Brady is still #1. Rodgers is a close 2nd. I'll take it.

Nope. Brady didn't even make the Super Bowl much less win MVP. He didn't even make it to the AFC Championship game. Got beat by the Jets no less. Not even close to number 1. It goes Rodgers, Rapistburger (gag) and on from there. With Rodgers number 1.

[Little Whiskey]

Nope. Brady didn't even make the Super Bowl much less win MVP. He didn't even make it to the AFC Championship game. Got beat by the Jets no less. Not even close to number 1. It goes Rodgers, Rapistburger (gag) and on from there. With Rodgers number 1.

In 2006-2007 would you have said Manning #1 then Grossman #2?

[RashanGary]

For one game, right now. . . .

I'd go:

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Rothlisberger
6. Vick
7. Rivers

And Rodgers is the youngest one in the group.

[MadtownPacker]

I think JH can be a extreme ass but this one is justified. I will also say that I was wrong on several counts when it comes to ARod. I actually felt he had what it took skill wise after the @Dallas game. I just wasnt sure of his durability. He has proven he will hang tough. I think he learned alot sitting behind Favre (good and bad) and also growing up admiring Montana (Truth is that is how good he played this season). Maybe not the entire regular season but close and in the playoffs he stood out and made it look automatic. Him and the defense are the reason for the playoff run and SB win. He is top 1 for last year IMO cuz if you aint first you're last (Championship!) and he is top 1-3 overall this season for sure.

[RashanGary]

Yeah, the way AR played from the Giant game, through the playoffs and into the SB. He was the best player in all of football. So he was the best for 6, in crunch time. Let's see if he can be the best for 16+3.

I think he'll get a regular season MVP soon, but like most greats, his real prowess is going to be in the post season. He's cool; like Aikman, Montana, Starr, Brady. I don't think it's coincidence we won our first championship in 15 years.

[MadtownPacker]

See the thing is he doesnt have to do it for 16 games IMO. Almost all the recent SB winners where the teams that went in hot. If he keeps them in the mix and then gets hot in the playoffs=Championship. I agree he has learned to be cool.

[mission]

I gotta admit that I was right as shit about Aaron Rodgers ...

Many of fights with Partial about it. I was right. :jig:



But nice to have you back man!

[RashanGary]

Another thing AR has going for him. . . . He has what looks like one of the best built teams in the history of football backing him up. Like Bob McGinn said 6 months ago and many here have said before and since. . . These Packers aren't just good now. They're getting better and they're here to stay for a long time. They have the makings of a dynasty from coaching to QB to defense. . . . They have every ingredient, including youth and money.

Oh, and they're the Packers. Best team in all of sports.

[mission]

Another thing AR has going for him. . . . He has what looks like one of the best built teams in the history of football backing him up. Like Bob McGinn said 6 months ago and many here have said. . . These Packers aren't just good now. They're getting better and they're here to stay for a long time. They have the makings of a dynasty from coaching to QB to defense. . . . They have every ingredient, including youth and money.

Like Joe with the Niners...

[MJZiggy]

In 2006-2007 would you have said Manning #1 then Grossman #2?

I'd have gagged saying it, but yes. The goal is not to have pretty stats. There is only one goal in football. Rodgers is number one until someone knocks him off the pedestal. He deeply deserves that pedestal. Think about all he went through to get there, the injuries to runningbacks and receivers and whatnot.

[RashanGary]

The SB isn't all the QB. The 15th best QB in football can win the SB if he has the best team backing him up.

AR has an argument fir #1 because he destroyed the league for 6 games in crunch time. He beat the best teams in football back to back to back to back and did it in the most heroic fashion. Not only did he win the SB, he was the best player on any team from the time the playoffs started until the time he stood on the podium accepting the SB MVP. AR fucking rocked.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brady has to be #1. His stats have been ridiculous and he has three Super Bowl titles. But Rodgers has an argument for #2 because of this:

Comparing him to Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Ryan since he became a starter, Rodgers has the best postseason passer rating of the group. Only Rivers has a better regular season passer rating. Only Roethlisberger has more playoff wins. Only Rodgers, Big Ben, and Brees have Super Bowl titles. Not to mention his ~900 rushing yards and 13 rushing TDs totally outclass the others in this group. Rivers has the regular season passer rating, but his team is 1-2 in the playoffs and he's performed terribly in the playoffs. Not to mention he's a statue in the pocket.

(Vick has only played this last season, he faded down the stretch, and his team failed to win a playoff game.)

[Partial]

Fixed.

He's up there with Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers. He's probably 4-6 realistically. I'd choose the first three over him for sure, the other two debatably. The way he played in the playoffs he might be #3. He was sick.

[Guiness]

See the thing is he doesnt have to do it for 16 games IMO. Almost all the recent SB winners where the teams that went in hot. If he keeps them in the mix and then gets hot in the playoffs=Championship. I agree he has learned to be cool.

Quite. Think Manning wins that ring if Freeney and the boys don't have the hot hand? Actually, they were so good that run, they probably could have won it without him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brady is the only guy I'd not think twice about taking over him for one season. Manning probably. Brees is a tossup. He's better than the rest. Long-term, I wouldn't take any QB over him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And he's been sick for a long time. He was good for his first 1 1/2 years. He's been sick since about the midway point of last year. 30 TDs and 7 picks last year. 86 TDs vs. 31 interceptions, 65%, 8+ yards/attempt, over 4000 yards/year on average. Not to mention his escapability and rushing ability--which is the best amongst the elite QBs not named Vick.

[Guiness]

He's up there with Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers. He's probably 4-6 realistically. I'd choose the first three over him for sure, the other two debatably. The way he played in the playoffs he might be #3. He was sick.

I'd bump Rivers out. He's been in the league longer than Rodgers, has had good teams, and struggles to make the playoffs almost every year, forget an SB. There's something rotten there, and I've seen stuff written saying he's selfish and self-centered. I also don't know if I totally buy Roethlisberger as elite, top 5.

That puts Rodgers top 4, just a couple of slots above Flynn!!!

[bobblehead]

Nope. Brady didn't even make the Super Bowl much less win MVP. He didn't even make it to the AFC Championship game. Got beat by the Jets no less. Not even close to number 1. It goes Rodgers, Rapistburger (gag) and on from there. With Rodgers number 1.

Brady: 16 16 324 492 65.9 3,900 7.9 36 4 25 175 111.0 31 30 1.0 1 3 1

36 TD's 4 Ints = #1 in my book

[Joemailman]

And he's been sick for a long time. He was good for his first 1 1/2 years. He's been sick since about the midway point of last year. 30 TDs and 7 picks last year. 86 TDs vs. 31 interceptions, 65%, 8+ yards/attempt, over 4000 yards/year on average. Not to mention his escapability and rushing ability--which is the best amongst the elite QBs not named Vick.

Actually, the 30-7 was in 2009. 2 years in a row, he's been the league's best QB in the 2nd half of the season and playoffs. 43 TD's and 7 INT's in 20 games. he just needs a little more consistency in the 1st half of the season to move to the top. As is, I think he's probably #4.

[SkinBasket]

How come no one's talking about the game changer?

Vince Young.

[Tarlam!]

How come no one's talking about the game changer?

Vince Young.

I bet you enjoy catching flys and pulling out their wings as a youngster?

[RashanGary]

Brady is the only guy I'd not think twice about taking over him for one season. Manning probably. Brees is a tossup. He's better than the rest. Long-term, I wouldn't take any QB over him.


In the playoffs, Rodgers was better than any of them. Whether he's going to do it next year or not is up for debate. Obviously the guys ahead of him have the fact that they've proven it over time on their side. There is certainly credit that needs to get paid to past accomplishments, but to say Brady is the same QB today at age 34 and Manning is the same now at age 35 as they were 5 years ago when they were breaking records isn't necessarily true. They are the more accomplished QBs, but are they better today, in their current physical state? I think there is a debate on that. I'm not saying AR is #1, but I'm not saying he's not either.

When it mattered most, Rodgers was better than Brady, Manning or Brees. He was the best player in football. I don't think many NFL experts would disagree with that.

Now let's see if he can do it again.

But that's the argument. The argument for Rodgers being #1 is because he was #1 when it mattered most last year. Because he's on the way up as those guys are on the way down. It's jot just because he won the SB, but because he was a more effective, dominant QB than anyone else.

Again, where exactly he falls, who exactly helps their team most now is a debate, but IMO Rodgers is in it.

I'd go Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers and I wouldn't be able to say who's best. I don't think I have the knowledge of their systems, what they're asked to do, how tough they are to defend to split those hairs, but with my knowledge, AR is in the conversation for best QB in the league and best player in the league.

[RashanGary]

Favre, Aikman, Brady, Montana, Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger. . . . These guys didn't win their championships in their mid 30's. There is something to being the best that coincides with being young and strong. Most championship QB's are between 25 and 30 it seems. AR is in his prime. The others aren't. Best careers, AR isn't even in the conversation. Best today. He sure as fuck is. I could come up with a strong argument for him being the best, but there would be holes in it and we'd go round and round with no resolution. Perception gives past accomplishments too much weight in current reality. But, perception is not reality and often times doesn't line up with results. That could be what's happening here.

There was a time people said the Packers have been young the last 3 years, they've been pinching pennies the last 3 years. It is what has been and what will be. Past = future. Now we know the Packers are near the middle of hte league in age and near the top of the league in salary and their reigning champs. Past did not = future. And there were many people who saw this coming because they had this magic little thing I call perspective. It's a hard thing to grasp. Some can't and never will, but it's there and despite those who throw their hands in the air and say there is no way to predict the future with decent accuracy, there are those who do it every day. They do it with context and perspective beyond common thought. They're leaders, visionaries.

Common perception says brady is better today. It might not be reality. And those who throw their hands up in the air, site past, use facts. . . . . There is something to intuition and feel. Those with it can get over on those without it.

My evidence is more in patterns and non linear projections. Those who only see things linear, only see the past, can't see the hints toward what's to come. . . They'll have their arguements and they'll always win them because the flock of regulars will be there to pat their backs. But the visionaries will be right over time and when it happens, everyone will pretend they saw it all along. That's life.

Imagination, intuition, vision, faith. They're real. You can't touch them, can't prove them, but they often times line up with the energy of the world. Maybe it's the god's flow, natures flow, just the flow of what is. . . . But there is something to what cannot be touched that has a funny way of coinciding with what's to come. Just gotta let go to feel it.

[RashanGary]

woo hoo, now this is the way I remember this place, haha.

[KYPack]

How come no one's talking about the game changer?

Vince Young.

I was waiting for that shoe to hit the floor.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Rodgers is number two. Brady is the reigning MVP, had an amazing season, and has proven he can produce in the postseason so he's number one. Looking at it in terms of longevity, Rodgers is the best QB to have right now. He can pass, scramble, extend plays, read defenses, avoid costly turnovers in crunch time, and is becoming a leader of the team. This is not actually much of a debate for me.

After Brady, Brees is the only guy I can see still above Rodgers, not Manning. Brees is still fairly young and comes to play every week. His stats have been sick the last 3-4 years. Even last year he played great in the playoffs, but his defense failed him. Manning on the other hand seems to fail more often than not once the playoffs start.

The Saints should probably be better on offense with Ingram which is kind of scary. If they get there defense to have a good season I could see the Saints being a hard out once the playoffs start. If the pats lose Mankins, Brady could have a pretty big drop in production. He has almost always had the luxury of having a very strong offensive line. He literally STANDS back there sometimes. If he’s forced to win games with a average or below average line I am pretty sure he wouldn’t put up the numbers Rodgers was able to put up.

At the end of next year I think it will be Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and then Manning in that order.

[Deputy Nutz]

Partial, fuck these jokers. You had an opinion and you defended it and that is important you didn't back down until your opinion was found to be proven false and you admitted it.

[Lurker64]

Partial, fuck these jokers. You had an opinion and you defended it and that is important you didn't back down until your opinion was found to be proven false and you admitted it.

I think it's hard to be broken up about how you were wrong about how you were wrong about your quarterback when he proved you wrong by winning the superbowl. A little good-natured ribbing has to accompany this sort of thing, we can't be that uptight around here. There are things that Partial (or really, anybody) was wrong about that probably shouldn't be dredged up in order to make an example, but things of the order "you know that you were proved wrong when we WON THE SUPERBOWL" are generally in good taste.

The whole labor mess has really cast a pall over this offseason, which should have been much more fun for Packer fans than it has been so far.

[SkinBasket]

I bet you enjoy catching flys and pulling out their wings as a youngster?

Partial is a human being Tarlam!

And no, I wouldn't do that to a fly. They aren't that annoying.

[Joemailman]

I prefer the magnifying glass over an ant on a hot sidewalk on a sunny summer day. Is that wrong?

[Deputy Nutz]

I prefer to pull legs off cats.

[Tarlam!]

You guys crack me up! Nutz, don't invite me to eat chinese in your neihborhood - I know where the legless cats end up!

But I think Lurker hit it. Partial has been very passionate with some of his predictions, so, he's allowed to served a healthy portion of crow - as we all are. Remember my Rugby players are real men thread? I do, unfortunately.

[esoxx]

Favre, Aikman, Brady, Montana, Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger. . . . These guys didn't win their championships in their mid 30's. There is something to being the best that coincides with being young and strong. Most championship QB's are between 25 and 30 it seems. AR is in his prime. The others aren't. Best careers, AR isn't even in the conversation. Best today. He sure as fuck is. I could come up with a strong argument for him being the best, but there would be holes in it and we'd go round and round with no resolution. Perception gives past accomplishments too much weight in current reality. But, perception is not reality and often times doesn't line up with results. That could be what's happening here.

There was a time people said the Packers have been young the last 3 years, they've been pinching pennies the last 3 years. It is what has been and what will be. Past = future. Now we know the Packers are near the middle of hte league in age and near the top of the league in salary and their reigning champs. Past did not = future. And there were many people who saw this coming because they had this magic little thing I call perspective. It's a hard thing to grasp. Some can't and never will, but it's there and despite those who throw their hands in the air and say there is no way to predict the future with decent accuracy, there are those who do it every day. They do it with context and perspective beyond common thought. They're leaders, visionaries.

Common perception says brady is better today. It might not be reality. And those who throw their hands up in the air, site past, use facts. . . . . There is something to intuition and feel. Those with it can get over on those without it.

My evidence is more in patterns and non linear projections. Those who only see things linear, only see the past, can't see the hints toward what's to come. . . They'll have their arguements and they'll always win them because the flock of regulars will be there to pat their backs. But the visionaries will be right over time and when it happens, everyone will pretend they saw it all along. That's life.

Imagination, intuition, vision, faith. They're real. You can't touch them, can't prove them, but they often times line up with the energy of the world. Maybe it's the god's flow, natures flow, just the flow of what is. . . . But there is something to what cannot be touched that has a funny way of coinciding with what's to come. Just gotta let go to feel it.

Yes, because you're a true visonary. You're the best.

[bobblehead]

I think it's hard to be broken up about how you were wrong about how you were wrong about your quarterback when he proved you wrong by winning the superbowl. A little good-natured ribbing has to accompany this sort of thing, we can't be that uptight around here. There are things that Partial (or really, anybody) was wrong about that probably shouldn't be dredged up in order to make an example, but things of the order "you know that you were proved wrong when we WON THE SUPERBOWL" are generally in good taste.

The whole labor mess has really cast a pall over this offseason, which should have been much more fun for Packer fans than it has been so far.

YEa, that sums it up. For my embarrassing prediction I fall back on saying that Allen Babre would beat out college last year. I was so close except the guy sucked. I would rather be wrong more in line with a guy turning into a stud and benefitting my team though.

[Patler]

YEa, that sums it up. For my embarrassing prediction I fall back on saying that Allen Babre would beat out college last year. I was so close except the guy sucked.

Don't feel too bad about it. We all have our Atlas Herrion moments! (He was my failed prediction.)

[Tarlam!]

Yes, because you're a true visonary. You're the best.

At least he's not a fence sitter. I liked having personalities like that in my team. Having a bunch of "yes" people is certainly not conducive to growth.

[pbmax]

Nope, Brady is still #1. Rodgers is a close 2nd. I'll take it.

Mr. Brady has been having trouble winning his 15th playoff game. I don't think he is getting the same level of video coaching he was earlier in his career. :)

[pbmax]

So I come back to this nuthouse and find: Madtown is an admin, Partial is back and so is the blue dog.

Does this mean they are all the same person? Or is the apocalypse arriving sooner than the Mayans thought?

[pbmax]

Regular Season Passer Rating (Career):

Rodgers 98.4 vs. Rivers 97.2

This is what Pro Football Reference has, at any rate. It was mentioned several times last season, once he passed a certain minimum, that he was now the highest rated passer in history.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_active.htm

[hoosier]

So I come back to this nuthouse and find: Madtown is an admin, Partial is back and so is the blue dog.

Does this mean they are all the same person? Or is the apocalypse arriving sooner than the Mayans thought?

Most Mayanist scholars today believe the so-called Mayan apocalypse (the end of the world in 2012) is really just a figment of the modern imagination. We moderns read too much into what is really just the end of a "cycle." Maybe that is true here too. The more things change the more they stay the same.

[MJZiggy]

Most Mayanist scholars today believe the so-called Mayan apocalypse (the end of the world in 2012) is really just a figment of the modern imagination. We moderns read too much into what is really just the end of a "cycle." Maybe that is true here too. The more things change the more they stay the same.

That's pretty much what our Mayan tour guide told us in Belize as well. It's just the end of a cycle and you have to go back to some weird date in like the 1200s to pick up again.

[Fritz]

End of a cycle? You just start up again the next month, no?

[vince]

End of a cycle? You just start up again the next month, no?
This is Mother Nature's menopause they're talking about here though Fritz.

[hoosier]

That's pretty much what our Mayan tour guide told us in Belize as well. It's just the end of a cycle and you have to go back to some weird date in like the 1200s to pick up again.

Yup, the 12th and 13th centuries were happening times in Mayan history. Everything after that is just a footnote.

[pbmax]

You people keep pooh-poohing the end of the world and its really going to cut into my poster and T-shirt sales: Apocalypse Now: Mayan Edition

[pbmax]

End of a cycle? You just start up again the next month, no?


This is Mother Nature's menopause they're talking about here though Fritz.

This might explain the heat wave.

[mission]

Nice post, Lurk! I've been known to get into it a bit with Partial but it is what it is... I might come across as a jerkoff most of the time but I (mostly) mean it in that good-nature, big brother/lil bro ribbing (that can be obnoxious as hell, i know). The tone gets lost with my inability to write. But it's good having Partial back in the mix and I'm looking forward to the coming season at PR. Work will keep me in the background but I still read just about everything!

[RashanGary]

I hate Partial.

[RashanGary]

I hate Partial so bad.

[RashanGary]

No, I'm just serious.

[Partial]

So I come back to this nuthouse and find: Madtown is an admin, Partial is back and so is the blue dog.

Does this mean they are all the same person? Or is the apocalypse arriving sooner than the Mayans thought?

The secrets out!


Nice post, Lurk! I've been known to get into it a bit with Partial but it is what it is... I might come across as a jerkoff most of the time but I (mostly) mean it in that good-nature, big brother/lil bro ribbing (that can be obnoxious as hell, i know). The tone gets lost with my inability to write. But it's good having Partial back in the mix and I'm looking forward to the coming season at PR. Work will keep me in the background but I still read just about everything!

Yo Miss I followed you on the tweeter for awhile did you know who I was? At any rate, had to purge you as the follow list got out of control, but I'll prolly pick u up again for the season. I mean no offense by the purging, just try to keep the # manageable.


No, I'm just serious.

I don't get it.

[RashanGary]

I was completely fuckin around. I love arguing with you, to be honest. This place wasn't the same without you. That's what makes this board special. First, we can use the word fuck and second, we can fight like cats and dogs.