Who Caused Mendenhall's Super Bowl Fumble?

[pbmax]

Question that the Clay Matthews/Kevin Green clip (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?22219-Is-it-time-for-another-winner-of-multiple-Super-Bowls) brought to mind. I know that I, and I think others, remember that Mendenhall fumble as one caused by Matthews.

But if you look at other vids with other angles (I think there is a shot of it in Justin's season review video thread (link with correct time stamp embedded below) from earlier this week) it seems like it was the collision with Pickett that caused the fumble, and Matthews helped to pin Mendenhall from any chance of recovering even though for a moment the RB seems like the only person to know it was loose.

Any thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HBHZk6BEw&feature=player_detailpage#t=772s

[Freak Out]

That's kinda what I saw as well.

[Tony Oday]

God...he is a Packer fan!

[Scott Campbell]

I don't even need to look at the clip. Ryan Pickett has been under appreciated his entire career.

[MJZiggy]

Question that the Clay Matthews/Kevin Green clip (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?22219-Is-it-time-for-another-winner-of-multiple-Super-Bowls) brought to mind. I know that I, and I think others, remember that Mendenhall fumble as one caused by Matthews.

But if you look at other vids with other angles (I think there is a shot of it in Justin's season review video thread (link with correct time stamp embedded below) from earlier this week) it seems like it was the collision with Pickett that caused the fumble, and Matthews helped to pin Mendenhall from any chance of recovering even though for a moment the RB seems like the only person to know it was loose.

Any thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HBHZk6BEw&feature=player_detailpage#t=772s

It looks to me like Pickett's helmet got the ball moving and Matthew's arm moving under the ball kept it moving and kept Mendenhall's other hand from helping secure it.

PB, how do you time stamp a link like that?

[mraynrand]

Matthews made the call to get Pickett in place. As for who jarred it loose, it looks like a combination of both. I watched it about 20 times back in Feb and couldn't say for sure. "Spill, spill!" That play turned the tide.

[pbmax]

It looks to me like Pickett's helmet got the ball moving and Matthew's arm moving under the ball kept it moving and kept Mendenhall's other hand from helping secure it.

PB, how do you time stamp a link like that?

There are probably other ways, but at YouTube, you can pause the clip, and right click on the progress/timer button and choose "Copy video URL at current time stamp".

[MJZiggy]

There are probably other ways, but at YouTube, you can pause the clip, and right click on the progress/timer button and choose "Copy video URL at current time stamp".Friggin' genius!

[hoosier]

From the second angle (13:00) it looks to me like it was either both or Matthews, but not just Pickett. Mendenhall is holding the ball with his right arm. Matthews hits the right arm (not the ball) and Pickett hits his left shoulder (not the ball). The ball pops out. Was it caused by the way his carrying arm got hit or was it the violence of the runner getting compacted by simultaneous collisions? I think we need to see this in super slow-mo and super close up where we can see exactly what forces are acting by looking at how the runner's body gets momentarily deformed.

Need I point out that the poll is missing that third option ("both" or "neither, it was just butterfingers Mendenhall")?

[mraynrand]

From the second angle (13:00) it looks to me like it was either both or Matthews, but not just Pickett. Mendenhall is holding the ball with his right arm. Matthews hits the right arm (not the ball) and Pickett hits his left shoulder (not the ball). The ball pops out. Was it caused by the way his carrying arm got hit or was it the violence of the runner getting compacted by simultaneous collisions? I think we need to see this in super slow-mo and super close up where we can see exactly what forces are acting by looking at how the runner's body gets momentarily deformed.

Need I point out that the poll is missing that third option ("both" or "neither, it was just butterfingers Mendenhall")?

James Harrison would have voted "butterfingers Mendenhall"

[bobblehead]

I vote both. Its on the superbowl DVD produced by the NFL and goes over the whole play really well.

[MJZiggy]

James Harrison would have voted "butterfingers Mendenhall"
:lol:

[pbmax]

The both option is for the timid. I want to sniff this out, not reach a compromise. This is my outlet for having to hope the players and owners reach a compromise.

For what its worth, when I watched the replay via Justin's earlier thread about this video, I thought Picket got the ball with his helmet, contrary to my memory. But repeated viewings have made that seem unclear. There is also the suggestion that Pickett's hit drove Mendenhall toward Matthews, increasing the contact there as well like hoosier posted.

[Joemailman]

Looked to me like Pickett put a helmet on the ball. A helmet on the ball is more likely to cause a fumble than hitting the arm that the ball is being held in.

Look at the video at the :09 mark. I don't know how you can say Pickett didn't cause the fumble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UTFu4MYzqU

[Guiness]

is this where we bitch about lack of poll options?

It was Justin Harrel, wearing an invisibility suit!

[hoosier]

Looked to me like Pickett put a helmet on the ball. A helmet on the ball is more likely to cause a fumble than hitting the arm that the ball is being held in.

Look at the video at the :09 mark. I don't know how you can say Pickett didn't cause the fumble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UTFu4MYzqU

I don't think so. Look at the first angle (:01-02): to my eye it is clear that Pickett's helmet hits Mendenhall's bicep/elbow but never touches the ball. The angle at :09 is at almost 180 degrees to Pickett's impact, so you can't really see how much distance (if any) there is between helmet and ball. It also looks like Matthews is driving up as he hits him on the arm/elbow, which might contribute to driving the ball out and up.

This is like analyzing the Zapruder film.

[pbmax]

Yeah, the more I watch it, the less I think it was Pickett's helmet. But his hit squeezed Mendenhall, helping pop it loose and making it tough for him to recover.

[RashanGary]

A few things happened there.

Pickett and Matthews arrived at the same time from opposite directions. This meant that rather than Mendenhall bouncing off and limiting the impact, he was stuck still and both hits had no release. Mendenhall took the full brunt of both mens force.

The other thing that happened that might go unnoticed is Pickett planted his helmet square on Mendenhalls left arm. Mendenhall went in with two hands on the ball. His left hand got a little sloppy, but it was still in position to grab on if he needed to. The timing of Pickett hitting Mendenhalls elbow made it impossible for him to get his hand back on the ball.

Then there was the Matthews hit. Because Mendenhall was being squeezed on the other end, Matthews got a full shot with nowhere for Mendenhall to bounce away, no way for Mendenhall to help with his left hand and the ball flew out.



If we're just talking about who knocked it out. . . . Clay. Who made the play? Both.

[Brandon494]

Ryan Pickett caused the fumble without a doubt. I know we all want to give Clay credit because hes the shit but play it in slow motion and its obvious Pickett's helmet caused the fumble.

[retailguy]

Brett Favre caused that fumble. I think your poll is flawed. It was destiny, pure and simple.

[KYPack]

Our defense got really tight in the second half. Who caused the fumble? Matthews gets some extra credit for making the smart line check (Spill it, spill it Pickett) at the snap. That told Big Ryan to fold back his ears and attack at the snap. He hammers Mendenhall and the ball flies loose.

Clay told the boys they were coming that way and to be alert for the line check in the defensive huddle. That kid is great and Capers is molding a classic team defense with those guys.

[smuggler]

I like the version where Pickett causes the initial jarring of the ball, but Matthews actually gets it out of the breadbasket, away from the grasping hands of Mendenhall.

[Patler]

Individually, I'm not sure that either hit would have caused a fumble. Almost simultaneously, Picket impacted one arm and Matthews impacted the other. Since he did have two arms on the ball, hitting just one may not have caused the fumble. Each dislodged half of his grasp on the ball.

Did Pickett's helmet hit the ball? From one way it looks like yes, from another, no. But, something caused the ball to fly out and up away from Pickett's hit. The ball popped out of there pretty good.

[MJZiggy]

Individually, I'm not sure that either hit would have caused a fumble. Almost simultaneously, Picket impacted one arm and Matthews impacted the other. Since he did have two arms on the ball, hitting just one may not have caused the fumble. Each dislodged half of his grasp on the ball.

Did Pickett's helmet hit the ball? From one way it looks like yes, from another, no. But, something caused the ball to fly out and up away from Pickett's hit. The ball popped out of there pretty good.
It was pretty, wasn't it?

[Brandon494]

Umm Matthewa did nothing but make a wrap up tackle. That was all Pickett.

[RashanGary]

Umm Matthewa did nothing but make a wrap up tackle. That was all Pickett.

No. On the first page, most of the way down, there is a good clip.

I said Matthews last time. I'll change my answer to both. If Matthews doesn't hit that arm and squirt that thing out, Mendenhall probably hangs on. If Pickett doesn't pin his left arm down and put extra pressure on the ball, the ball probably doesn't come out.

[MJZiggy]

No. On the first page, most of the way down, there is a good clip.

I said Matthews last time. I'll change my answer to both. If Matthews doesn't hit that arm and squirt that thing out, Mendenhall probably hangs on. If Pickett doesn't pin his left arm down and put extra pressure on the ball, the ball probably doesn't come out.

Gotta love teamwork!

[MadtownPacker]

I think rothlisberger caused it by making Mendenhal uncomfortable with his perverted stare.