Barnett Vs. Driver

[bobblehead]

All the wisdom I have read has Nick Barnett out of GB before the ink dries on the new CBA, but I mentioned something in another thread that makes sense to me.

Driver is in a similar situation as Barnett, but much older. Driver likely is going to lose his starting gig this season and if the team could actually sign Jones for somewhere near what Driver is making right now, wouldn't it make sense to sign him and cut Driver.

Now, I realize the big difference is that Bishop is actually UNDER contract right now and I am speculating about Jones, but the situation is similar. We extended Bishop and we all assume a 29 year old veteran with a solid (starters) salary is gone. Jones is basically entering his prime, is probably close to Driver in overall value, and will draw starters pay somewhere. Wouldn't it make sense to make him a decent offer and let lose the mid 30's WR??

[SkinBasket]

I didn't read your post. Driver hands down.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yes, I brought this up early in the offseason. I could see it happening, if the Packers are able to resign Jones. I still think that is unlikely. I can't see paying Jones a good starter's money, and I think that's what it will take to retain him. I think somebody that is well under the salary floor will overpay him.

[red]

here's the difference that i see, driver very well could be the #3 wr this year, but he is a massive fan favorite and one of the true leaders of the team. he is also the heart and soul of our receiver corps

people, including myself were kind of getting tired of barnett and his constant whiffs on tackles, being out of possition and bigger ego then his play showed. last year his constant tweets and whatnot caused some nice distractions for the rest of the team who was trying to win a title without him

in our system you're gonna see a lot more 3 and 4 WR sets compared to how many times will need 3 ILB's on the field. so driver would see the field a lot more

i would be sad to see driver go, i'd be fine with barnett leaving. and i'm sure i'm not alone

[Joemailman]

All the wisdom I have read has Nick Barnett out of GB before the ink dries on the new CBA, but I mentioned something in another thread that makes sense to me.

Driver is in a similar situation as Barnett, but much older. Driver likely is going to lose his starting gig this season and if the team could actually sign Jones for somewhere near what Driver is making right now, wouldn't it make sense to sign him and cut Driver.

Now, I realize the big difference is that Bishop is actually UNDER contract right now and I am speculating about Jones, but the situation is similar. We extended Bishop and we all assume a 29 year old veteran with a solid (starters) salary is gone. Jones is basically entering his prime, is probably close to Driver in overall value, and will draw starters pay somewhere. Wouldn't it make sense to make him a decent offer and let lose the mid 30's WR??

That's the problem. Someone will offer him starter money, and I doubt TT sees him as a starter. TT might sign him if it turns out Jones' market value isn't as high as some might think, but I suspect he gets starter money from some team weak at the WR position.

[3irty1]

I don't think Jones is going for as much as people think. Lots of teams are over the cap and there are still some better receivers than Jones on the market. It'd be a bummer to cut Driver but I couldn't blame TT. Driver is at this point in his career a slot specialist--I don't see him losing that job to a rookie. Not even one as talented as Randall Cobb.

[vince]

here's the difference that i see, driver very well could be the #3 wr this year, but he is a massive fan favorite and one of the true leaders of the team. he is also the heart and soul of our receiver corps

people, including myself were kind of getting tired of barnett and his constant whiffs on tackles, being out of possition and bigger ego then his play showed. last year his constant tweets and whatnot caused some nice distractions for the rest of the team who was trying to win a title without him

in our system you're gonna see a lot more 3 and 4 WR sets compared to how many times will need 3 ILB's on the field. so driver would see the field a lot more

i would be sad to see driver go, i'd be fine with barnett leaving. and i'm sure i'm not alone
You're not. That hit the nail on the head.

[RashanGary]

I would like to see both cut and Driver resigned for about 2M per year. The way teams are short on money, there is no reason to pay Driver 5M. NOBODY would give him that cash. We could cut him right now and get him back for less.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Jones is more talented than Driver at this point. But as mentioned above, leadership and popularity will keep Driver on the team. Plus I think he makes 4 mil this year and than only 2 mil next season.

I don't think Jones gets more than 3-4 mil a year from any team. This is a very deep pool of free agent Wr's and I could see all the big spending teams already inking wideouts by the time Jones gets interest.

[Brandon494]

#3 wide out my ass, Driver still has game!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgcfJ8rbuHw&feature=related

You have to remember the guy was battling a quad injury for most of the season.

[ThunderDan]

#3 wide out my ass, Driver still has game!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgcfJ8rbuHw&feature=related

You have to remember the guy was battling a quad injury for most of the season.

+1.

Driver stll is a 2 and goes across the middle better than anyone else on the team. Until they find a new WR to go across the middle and get the tough yards Driver stays. They might try to renegotiate the deal but I don't see anyway DD doesn't make the opening day roster.

[mission]

Tough topic!
I don't think anyone wants Driver gone but the reality is finally here that there are new rules to play under. The cap suddenly seems to be something that's more than an afterthought--all the dollars count now. Not sure how.. it just seems like they do. :)

I'd be fine biting the bullet while retaining his salary but it would be nice from a business perspective to get a little better value from his spot. Just don't see it happening unless it becomes a league-wide practice that all teams decide to go forward with. Ravens have already done it with some of their vets. Just don't want to insult the guy.. $2-3 mil a year sounds better to me but probably not Driver.

[gbgary]

they can release DD and resign him at a lower rate if it looks like he'll be a three or four. it's all about jennings and fin at this point.

[bobblehead]

I agree with Red's post. Makes a lot of sense, and I hadn't thought about the fact that while DD can see the field quite often as the 3, Barnett will never see it as a 3.

The kink here to me is that a few years back DD wanted a little raise while he was under contract. TT gave it to him. Now he is not worth what he is slated to make....will he return the favor? It feels kinda Al Harrisish to me.

I disagree as far as him being as good as some think, he was hurt last year and didn't impress me....he made very few plays.

[Deputy Nutz]

Driver stays a starting Wide out until his contract is up or he retires. The Packers have to be reasonably good to their older veterans after the Favre situation. Driver keeps the locker room tight and he is the leader inside the Packers locker room. He might only start in name only, but Driver is still a starting caliber wide receiver in the NFL, he was slowed by injuries for the first time in 5 years. If it is a trend this season I have a feeling he will walk away gracefully like every other aging pro ball player.

[bobblehead]

Nutz, I hope you are correct. It would be even better if he took a moderate pay cut to help us with the cap, but I definately don't want to see DD go. He is still one of my favorite players. My posts here are for debate, and I believe that all I say is possible, but I would hope it plays out in a way we can all be happy with. Better than Al Harris played out who is possibly my all time favorite for his attitude and work ethic.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Barnett has proven to be replaceable. DD has not. DD stays.

[Smidgeon]

Barnett has proven to be replaceable. DD has not. DD stays.

Not replaceable? Maybe because of pure opportunities for WRs versus ILBs...

[pbmax]

Barnett has proven to be replaceable. DD has not. DD stays.

DD was replaceable most of last year. And his injuries are not likely to be less frequent.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Sorry, meant as a team leader.

[Zool]

The Packers have to be reasonably good to their older veterans after the Favre situation.

When Donald starts talking about retirement for 4 consecutive seasons we'll talk.

[Fritz]

Jones is more talented than Driver at this point. But as mentioned above, leadership and popularity will keep Driver on the team. Plus I think he makes 4 mil this year and than only 2 mil next season.

I don't think Jones gets more than 3-4 mil a year from any team. This is a very deep pool of free agent Wr's and I could see all the big spending teams already inking wideouts by the time Jones gets interest.

But if you sign Jones and cut Driver, aren't you still going to have dead cap money for Driver? And is it worth paying Jones a big salary plus Driver's dead money? Do you really need another WR that badly when you could have Driver for a cheaper rate? It wouldn't make that much sense financially, I don't think. And especially since Jones is going to want more than a two year deal, and you'll have the contracts of people like CMIII coming up...

[King Friday]

I believe Driver still has the drive and determination to be a capable #2 WR in this league, although the injury concerns certainly weigh heavy at this point in his career. I don't mind keeping him at his current salary this year because he has earned it and I don't think we will have any difficulty staying under the cap. It also gives the rookie time to develop instead of possibly getting thrown to the wolves.

Do the cut/resign thing to him NEXT YEAR...when I don't think Driver will have any issue with it.

[MJZiggy]

I believe Driver still has the drive and determination to be a capable #2 WR in this league, although the injury concerns certainly weigh heavy at this point in his career. I don't mind keeping him at his current salary this year because he has earned it and I don't think we will have any difficulty staying under the cap. It also gives the rookie time to develop instead of possibly getting thrown to the wolves.

Do the cut/resign thing to him NEXT YEAR...when I don't think Driver will have any issue with it.

1. He's had almost 6 months to heal.
2. Yes.
3. It depends on how he performs this year. If he's good this year, then I think he might have a problem with that.

[Bretsky]

THOUGHT TO PONDER

Desbishop55 has made 17 career starts and forced six fumbles. Nick Barnett has made 113 career starts and forced just two

[vince]

THOUGHT TO PONDER

Desbishop55 has made 17 career starts and forced six fumbles. Nick Barnett has made 113 career starts and forced just two
Bishop hits people. Barnett brings them down. Bishop is a stud IMO. I was concerned about his ability in space, particularly in pass defense. While he's average there, he's absolutely earned his spot in the starting lineup the hard way and I look for him to continue to get better.

Remember that highlight reel hit he had in the preseason a few years back? He's due for another one like that this year.

This one wasn't bad either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owf5QtBJGKU

[MJZiggy]

Barnett seems to think that something will happen today.

[Brandon494]

THOUGHT TO PONDER

Desbishop55 has made 17 career starts and forced six fumbles. Nick Barnett has made 113 career starts and forced just two

What about Hawk?

[red]

Barnett seems to think that something will happen today.

today is the day that teams can officially cut players

[MJZiggy]

today is the day that teams can officially cut players
Well, apparently they haven't cut him yet.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What about Hawk?

2 forced fumbles in 80 starts, so a bit better than Barnett. The most important thing though is the Packers defense improved considerably when Hawk and Bishop were in there together. Part of it is likely that Bishop is better than Barnett and part of it is likely that Hawk does a better job than Barnett calling plays and organizing the defense. I trust Thompson and the coaches to know which two of the three guys were most important to keep. I think we should just come to accept that Bishop and Hawk are good ILBs, and leave it at that. I had some reservations about Bishop because he would flash in the preseason but it didn't translate when he got time in the regular season. I thought he might be a tad slow. I was wrong. On the other hand, some continue to imply that Hawk isn't very good. That isn't the case either. Our starting ILBs are solid, young, and durable. They work well together. I'm glad to eat a little crow on Bishop--as I'm sure others are glad to eat a little crow on Hawk. I'm very happy with the Hawk-Bishop combination.

[Brandon494]

I agree they do feed out each other well, to me Barnett and Hawk were the same type of player. Neither were big hitters but were solid in coverage. As far as Hawk being better at calling plays and organizing the defense I'm not so sure on that. Barnett has been to a few Pro Bowls for the Packers and during the 2009 season when he called plays for the defense they were ranked in the top 3 for overall defense. They just happened to play like shit against the Cardinals. :/

[HarveyWallbangers]

The were top 3 in yardage allowed (which is silly to rank a defense only by that), but by most metrics they were better--outside of their rushing yards/play. I think outside factors affected that. Injuries and playing mostly in nickel being the two biggest. It wasn't all because of Hawk's play calling, but I think it played a part. Players and coaches went out of their way to praise Hawk on that. Also, Hawk has been extremely durable. That availability allows for continuity. That's especially important for the guy quarterbacking the defense.

[Freak Out]

As much as I liked Barnetts fire and craziness I won't lose any sleep with him being traded/cut. TT and the gang has this thing going in the right direction.

[pbmax]

The were top 3 in yardage allowed (which is silly to rank a defense only by that), but by most metrics they were better--outside of their rushing yards/play. I think outside factors affected that. Injuries and playing mostly in nickel being the two biggest. It wasn't all because of Hawk's play calling, but I think it played a part. Players and coaches went out of their way to praise Hawk on that. Also, Hawk has been extremely durable. That availability allows for continuity. That's especially important for the guy quarterbacking the defense.

That always felt like faint praise. I would like to know more than simply the fact that its the first thing that comes to someone's mind when you stick a microphone or notebook in front of them.

And I feel that while Bishop is still inferior in space and pass D, Capers found plenty of bodies in the DBs to compensate. With a healthy Chillar, I am far less worried.

[Zool]

Maybe Nick can react late to a contract offer and chase it down from behind.