Interesting discussion about OG possibilities

[Patler]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/126436963.html

Regarding the loss of Colledge:

Not "a tough act to follow".
The line's "weak link" for the last two years.
GB won "despite Colledge, not because of him."

I think it makes a good point, that the loss of Colledge forces them to do something they have wanted to do, have tried to do but that may have been hard to do with him there.

Seems to raise a big cautionary flag about Lang due to his failure to show improvement in his second year, which MM believes is telling.

[sheepshead]

There are a few positions that are tough to judge by simply watching TV, OL is one of them. We rely on not hearing his name and really highlight when our QB gets pressure. We dont see a lot of plays finish there. I have trouble quarreling with these moves, I know they have much more information than I do.

[bobblehead]

My money was on TJ Lang, but if he didn't do the necessary offseason work on his own, he will have no one but himself to blame. I like the way he plays. We know very little about the others, but this should be a good fight all the way through camp. I just hope one of them emerges in a big way.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It doesn't sound like Sherrod is suited to play guard.

The LG position could turn out to be a problem this year, and it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe McDonald is ready.

[Patler]

It doesn't sound like Sherrod is suited to play guard.

The LG position could turn out to be a problem this year, and it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe McDonald is ready.

Or, it could turn out to be a RT problem. Bulaga showed enough in preseason last year that I think he could play LG fine. If McDonald, Lang etc. can't cut it at LG, then maybe Sherrod, Newhouse or Lang will at RT. Its a single "problem" with many variations for how it can be solved.

[Deputy Nutz]

It is easier to find a left guard then a right tackle. That is what I don't get about the Packers coaching staff. Bulaga has proven that he can play tackle in the NFL and the talk is moving him to left guard. I find it ridiculous, TT doesn't value guards but he won't commit to his proven right tackle at tackle so mary go round starts on the offensive line again.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I haven't heard that much talk about moving Bulaga to guard. I doubt it will happen. But I suppose it is an option, if for instance Sherrod can play RT as Patler suggests. unlikely.

They need Sherrod to learn his natural position, LT, in case Clifton goes down.

[wist43]

McCarthy and Thompson have a history of "goofing around" with the OL, and it has cost us in the past. I don't think it is a coincidence that once they locked in a starting unit and stayed with, that the OL improved, and the offense improved.

Hopefully we're not back to musical chairs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, moving Bulaga to LG makes sense if they determine that Sherrod is a better option at RT than McDonald (or whomever) is at LG. I think it also helps transition Bulaga to LT next year. I think, long term, it will be Bulaga at LT and Sherrod at RT. Moving Bulaga to LG won't stunt his growth as a future LT. It all depends on who is more ready this year: McDonald (or possibly Lang) at LG or Sherrod at RT. I'm sure they wish they had an offseason to figure this out better.

[HarveyWallbangers]

McCarthy and Thompson have a history of "goofing around" with the OL, and it has cost us in the past. I don't think it is a coincidence that once they locked in a starting unit and stayed with, that the OL improved, and the offense improved.

Hopefully we're not back to musical chairs.

Wist, we won the Super Bowl, so it's time to give Thompson and the coaches some credit. I remember how concerned you were that our personnel didn't fit the 3-4 defense. It actually did fit it, and I was one who thought it would. :)

[Scott Campbell]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/126436963.html

Regarding the loss of Colledge:

Not "a tough act to follow".
The line's "weak link" for the last two years.
GB won "despite Colledge, not because of him."

I think it makes a good point, that the loss of Colledge forces them to do something they have wanted to do, have tried to do but that may have been hard to do with him there.

Seems to raise a big cautionary flag about Lang due to his failure to show improvement in his second year, which MM believes is telling.


Those are McGinn's quotes, not the staffs. Though I can imagine the staff feeling the same way.

I think Colledge was the guy most likely to end Rodgers career. It's time for somebody else. It could be painful. But how much more painful than Colledge could it be?

[Scott Campbell]

Wist, we won the Super Bowl, ...........


Yeah, but we didn't win by very many points.

[wist43]

Wist, we won the Super Bowl, so it's time to give Thompson and the coaches some credit. I remember how concerned you were that our personnel didn't fit the 3-4 defense. It actually did fit it, and I was one who thought it would. :)

Now Harvey, let's not engage in revisionist history, lol...

I was screaming for the 3-4 long before they switched, and the majority of you thru tomatoes at me, and told he how all of our 4-3 guys were destined for the HOF.

Then when we did switch, most of you went on and on about what a great OLB Kampman was going to be - while I maintained that to be poo-perfect nonsense.

What made the 3-4 go was drafting two guys inparticular - Raji (loved the pick) and Matthews (was hopeful).

And I do give McCarthy and Thompson credit... but blindly following isn't in my nature :)

[wist43]

Yeah, but we didn't win by very many points.

Excellent point SC!!!

:)

[pbmax]

Sherrod will end up at left tackle and Bulaga and RT I think. Just my guy instinct as I have seen little of Sherrod, but enough of Bulaga. He could make a leap this year, but his pass blocking wouldn't have passed muster on the left side.

[Scott Campbell]

Excellent point SC!!!

:)

I was hoping you'd get a chuckle out of that.

[bobblehead]

Sherrod will end up at left tackle and Bulaga and RT I think. Just my guy instinct as I have seen little of Sherrod, but enough of Bulaga. He could make a leap this year, but his pass blocking wouldn't have passed muster on the left side.

Body types indicate you are correct. Everything I have seen points this way.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Now Harvey, let's not engage in revisionist history, lol...

I was screaming for the 3-4 long before they switched, and the majority of you thru tomatoes at me, and told he how all of our 4-3 guys were destined for the HOF.

Then when we did switch, most of you went on and on about what a great OLB Kampman was going to be - while I maintained that to be poo-perfect nonsense.

What made the 3-4 go was drafting two guys inparticular - Raji (loved the pick) and Matthews (was hopeful).

And I do give McCarthy and Thompson credit... but blindly following isn't in my nature :)

We all liked Raji and Matthews, and most of us were excited for the switch to the 3-4, but you had major reservations about a lot of our personnel on defense fitting. I'll give credit on Kampman. However, if I remember correctly, you had major reservations about our corners ability in the new scheme and some of our DL. Also, you were pretty harsh on Capers early on. We need a thread bump. :)

[Lurker64]

Wist was extremely pessimistic in the past? Do we really need a thread to demonstrate this?

[pbmax]

Philbin states he would prefer to keep Bulaga at Right Tackle. Which is the way it should be. Let Lang, MacDonald, Newhouse, Slaughterhouse and the UDFAs all try out at LG. Then panic two weeks in and try Sherrod. Then after three weeks, then and only then, really panic and give Bulaga some snaps there is nothing else is happening.

[Lurker64]

Philbin states he would prefer to keep Bulaga at Right Tackle.

As would virtually every sensible packer fan.

[ThunderDan]

Those are McGinn's quotes, not the staffs. Though I can imagine the staff feeling the same way.

I think Colledge was the guy most likely to end Rodgers career. It's time for somebody else. It could be painful. But how much more painful than Colledge could it be?

Allen Barbre!?!

Hopefully we don't find another one of him.

[wist43]

We all liked Raji and Matthews, and most of us were excited for the switch to the 3-4, but you had major reservations about a lot of our personnel on defense fitting. I'll give credit on Kampman. However, if I remember correctly, you had major reservations about our corners ability in the new scheme and some of our DL. Also, you were pretty harsh on Capers early on. We need a thread bump. :)

Williams stepped up more than I thought he could, and we hit the jackpot with Shields... so you can throw Shields on to the Raji/Matthews ingredient list.

As for the DL... thought Jenkins could transition; always hated Harrell; Thompson was what I said he was, and was cut forthwith... Raji made the whole thing work though.

It took a couple of years, but they did transition quicker than I thought they could... but that was only possible b/c of Raji and Matthews. Williams and Shields complete the picture - but back when we were arguing about these things, 3 out of those 4 of those guys weren't even on the team.

As for Capers, he did an awesome job, my distrust not withstanding. Got very creative and aggressive... always thought he was a very good coach, but prior to getting the personnel he had here, he had been very vanilla and predictable IMO. In the end, last year??? did a great job.

IMO, we don't win the SB without Raji though - the number of snaps he ate up, the high level he played at all year, versatility... next to Rodgers??? team MVP IMO.

[Patler]

Those are McGinn's quotes, not the staffs. Though I can imagine the staff feeling the same way.

I think Colledge was the guy most likely to end Rodgers career. It's time for somebody else. It could be painful. But how much more painful than Colledge could it be?

Yes the quotes are McGinn's statements. Did you think I was quoting the coaches??

However, regarding Lang, McGinn makes statements that I didn't quote, and he makes them in a way to imply connections to discussions/information from coaches.

[pbmax]

Williams stepped up more than I thought he could, and we hit the jackpot with Shields... so you can throw Shields on to the Raji/Matthews ingredient list.

As for the DL... thought Jenkins could transition; always hated Harrell; Thompson was what I said he was, and was cut forthwith... Raji made the whole thing work though.

It took a couple of years, but they did transition quicker than I thought they could... but that was only possible b/c of Raji and Matthews. Williams and Shields complete the picture - but back when we were arguing about these things, 3 out of those 4 of those guys weren't even on the team.

As for Capers, he did an awesome job, my distrust not withstanding. Got very creative and aggressive... always thought he was a very good coach, but prior to getting the personnel he had here, he had been very vanilla and predictable IMO. In the end, last year??? did a great job.

IMO, we don't win the SB without Raji though - the number of snaps he ate up, the high level he played at all year, versatility... next to Rodgers??? team MVP IMO.

Didn't Pickett make this work? First as the starting nose tackle for the first season, then moving to DE when Jolly was gone?

[red]

I'm all for leaving bulaga as the starting right guard and letting sherrod learn for a season behind clifton

it shouldn't be hard to find someone just as good as colledge was

[wist43]

Didn't Pickett make this work? First as the starting nose tackle for the first season, then moving to DE when Jolly was gone?

Yes, of course Pickett was a key cog... Capers really did some interesting things with his fronts though, he certainly didn't play a conventional 3-4, that's for sure. If he does, we probably don't win a ring.

Raji was the key guy up front though... traditional 3-4, w/o all the creative fronts??? Don't think we get away with it. Give all the credit to Capers for that. Think he's going to have to be just as creative this year... I still think they're short on the weak side from the 2nd level - Walden was okay, but Zombo isn't going to change anyones game plan.

Jolly is still on the roster... read conflicting reports - keeping him/cutting him??? What's the latest???

If he's playing this year??? and Neal is back... I don't feel so bad about losing Jenkins.

[pbmax]

Yes, of course Pickett was a key cog... Capers really did some interesting things with his fronts though, he certainly didn't play a conventional 3-4, that's for sure. If he does, we probably don't win a ring.

Raji was the key guy up front though... traditional 3-4, w/o all the creative fronts??? Don't think we get away with it. Give all the credit to Capers for that. Think he's going to have to be just as creative this year... I still think they're short on the weak side from the 2nd level - Walden was okay, but Zombo isn't going to change anyones game plan.

Jolly is still on the roster... read conflicting reports - keeping him/cutting him??? What's the latest???

If he's playing this year??? and Neal is back... I don't feel so bad about losing Jenkins.

I think Zombo and Popp played strong side (left side of D, rt side of O). Walden might have flopped with Clay. But by the Super Bowl, Clay was everywhere, including the Mendenhall fumble, when he was on the D left with the TE.

Jolly is on the inactive/stupidity reserve list. Still their player, but not active.

[bobblehead]

I'll be dipped in shit....Sherrod lined up at LG today!!

[Harlan Huckleby]

wow. scouting reports are that he needs work on lower body strength.

[pbmax]

I'll be dipped in shit....Sherrod lined up at LG today!!

I think that is to get a look at him but primarily to light a fire under certain veterans.

[TheRaven]

McCarthy and Thompson have a history of "goofing around" with the OL, and it has cost us in the past. I don't think it is a coincidence that once they locked in a starting unit and stayed with, that the OL improved, and the offense improved.

Hopefully we're not back to musical chairs.

Goofing around? Can you explain a bit more? I know there was quite the uproar about Rivera and Wahle leaving, but honestly, were they truly worth the contracts they commanded at their respective ages? Or are you referring to other incidents?

I have seen them try to make due with what they have, and there have been times where the line has suffered as a result. However, they do not seem to make commitments they do not deem is worthwhile and sometimes you have to make due with less talent than to overpay. I see that as a choice and direction rather than goofing around.

[MJZiggy]

I think wist was referring to moving people around on the line. They do seem to work better when everyone is playing their natural positions and can stay in them for a while.

[TheRaven]

Thanks, I thought I was missing the intent there. However, I still do not know if I fully agree with that, at least with my limited knowledge of the situation. I may be completely ignorant of some event, but I have seen them make due with what they have at times. Sometimes, that has been someone playing out of position for a bit, but I have not seen anything I would deem to be egregious. I don't think anyone has been stunted as a result of their decisions, and while the line may not have been good at times, they had to play with the cards they had in their hand.

[pbmax]

There are three left tackle candidates on the roster and even with Clifton being treated like a piece of fine china, there aren't enough snaps to evaluate Sherrod if he only gets 2nd or 3rd string reps.

So he's going to play Guard for a while until he proves he cannot this season (or can only backup). Then Lang and MacDonald get their shot.