Stern smarter than Goodell

[bobblehead]

I just saw the report that David Stern and the NBA have taken legal action to avoid a decertification. His lawsuit is exactly as I said I would have done if I were NFL commissioner. He has asked the courts to immediately void any contract negotiated under the CBA if the union decertifies. Be prepared for an ugly one....which is cool by me since I hate the NBA.

[Scott Campbell]

I just saw the report that David Stern and the NBA have taken legal action to avoid a decertification. His lawsuit is exactly as I said I would have done if I were NFL commissioner. He has asked the courts to immediately void any contract negotiated under the CBA if the union decertifies. Be prepared for an ugly one....which is cool by me since I hate the NBA.


If contracts negotiated under the CBA were voided, would that also mean that teams rights to players drafted under the CBA would also be voided?

[ThunderDan]

I just saw the report that David Stern and the NBA have taken legal action to avoid a decertification. His lawsuit is exactly as I said I would have done if I were NFL commissioner. He has asked the courts to immediately void any contract negotiated under the CBA if the union decertifies. Be prepared for an ugly one....which is cool by me since I hate the NBA.

Unfortunately, unlike the NFLPA the NBAPA (?) stated they were never going to decertify their union. They wanted to negotiate a deal with the owners.

All this did is make Stern look like an ass and the players look better.

The players knew already that by decertifying that would lead to the end of basketball for 2011-12. Players with guananteed 5 year,$14,000,000 per year contracts are a lot more motivated than NFL players to keep playing.

[bobblehead]

If contracts negotiated under the CBA were voided, would that also mean that teams rights to players drafted under the CBA would also be voided?

I would assume all "rights" would be voided.

[smuggler]

Stern is a much worse commish than Goodell (from the owners' perspective) and the NBA a much weaker league than the NFL. Under Sterns reign, the league has basically fallen apart and the players have an amazing amount of control.

[TheRaven]

Stern is a much worse commish than Goodell (from the owners' perspective) and the NBA a much weaker league than the NFL. Under Sterns reign, the league has basically fallen apart and the players have an amazing amount of control.

So Stern wasn't at the helm during their most successful stretch the NBA had ever seen?

[smuggler]

Was Stern the commissioner during the 1980's? I guess he was. Look where the league has gone since then. The league is bad. Stern is bad.

[TheRaven]

..and the 90's, where business boomed even more.

[Tony Oday]

Who cares? Does anyone watch the NBA? I guess I am in MN and I think we put a team out there ;)

[mraynrand]

The decline of the NBA is directly attributable to the retirement of Paul Mokeski
http://www.cavshistory.com/images/players/Paul_Mokeski.jpg
and the hiring of Charles Barkley as a color commentator
http://sportsbore.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/charles-barkley-mug-shots.jpg.

There's only one thing that can restore dignity and pride to the NBA: More Fan interaction!
http://blog.sportaneous.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ron32.jpg

[pbmax]

Was Barkley really 6' 7"?

This is Stern's third lockout and it seems to be about the only way he can do business. Unfortunately, he also seems to be bad at it.

The NBA at least actually has teams that lose money, but you won't see contraction as an option. The financial picture for the NBA, even after it reached its zenith with Bird/Magic and then Jordan, cannot seem to find a sustainable business model. They ought to let teams fold that sign players to ridiculous contracts and then cannot afford them.

Its too bad because the NBA today, with its current crop of players, zone defenses, and multiple styles of play, is as much fun to watch as the Bird-Magic years and better than the Jordan years. Not because anyone is a good as Jordan, but because one team cannot dominate as easily, though Kobe was close.

[King Friday]

A parakeet could've successfully run the NBA during the days of Magic, Bird and Jordan. I don't get all the hype for Stern...he's presiding over a product that is losing money in bushels, and where many of the league superstars have some kind of negative aura attached to them. How does that make him a genius?

[pbmax]

A parakeet could've successfully run the NBA during the days of Magic, Bird and Jordan. I don't get all the hype for Stern...he's presiding over a product that is losing money in bushels, and where many of the league superstars have some kind of negative aura attached to them. How does that make him a genius?

Many post Jordan stars seemed to be near criminals, but today's crop is pretty clean. Remember it was somewhere between 2007 and 2009 that the NFL took over in arrests per play from the NBA. Remember Florio's "Days Without An Arrest" meter? And that increase in negative attention led to the Player Conduct Policy, which is possibly the only thing that could still hold up football this season. The players want someone other than Goodell to hear appeals, and Goodell isn't budging.

And that parakeet still had a tape delayed championship game on as late as 1980, Lakers vs. Sixers.

[mraynrand]

Its too bad because the NBA today, with its current crop of players, zone defenses, and multiple styles of play, is as much fun to watch as the Bird-Magic years and better than the Jordan years. Not because anyone is a good as Jordan, but because one team cannot dominate as easily, though Kobe was close.

It's not terribly worse than it was, but I think it used to be a lot better. The team concept, shortie shorts, players who could hit a midrange jumper - like the Ice Man Geroge Gervin, A Tree that bites Danny Ainge, Red Auerbach calling Don Nelson a whore, and Nelson getting fined for it, Kevin McHales' arm pit juice smeared in your face, hook shots from your big men, broken backboards from Chocolate Thunder - That's my NBA!

[mraynrand]

The players want someone other than Goodell to hear appeals, and Goodell isn't budging.

NFL players should consider themselves lucky - in the NBA years ago, Red Auerbach was in control of that.

[sheepshead]

It's not terribly worse than it was, but I think it used to be a lot better. The team concept, shortie shorts, players who could hit a midrange jumper - like the Ice Man Geroge Gervin, A Tree that bites Danny Ainge, Red Auerbach calling Don Nelson a whore, and Nelson getting fined for it, Kevin McHales' arm pit juice smeared in your face, hook shots from your big men, broken backboards from Chocolate Thunder - That's my NBA!

That's a beautiful thing.

I for one, dont follow the NBA like I used to. The games look like the All Star games used to 20 years ago. Just run and score, little defense. I also have trouble getting excited about guys with no vowels in their names. Guys that we didnt see in the tournaments. Then there's the guys all coming out early so now you dont get to know them in college like you did before. The whole thing has made for an uninteresting show that's difficult to follow and get excited about.

[Scott Campbell]

The decline of the NBA is directly attributable to the retirement of Paul Mokeski
http://www.cavshistory.com/images/players/Paul_Mokeski.jpg


Good ole Speedbump. I wonder what he's up to these days.

[bobblehead]

A parakeet could've successfully run the NBA during the days of Magic, Bird and Jordan. I don't get all the hype for Stern...he's presiding over a product that is losing money in bushels, and where many of the league superstars have some kind of negative aura attached to them. How does that make him a genius?

I disagree. I think most people would have kept the officiating on the up and up and we would not have been so fond of the "winners" that people desperately want to associate themselves with....ie, bird, jordan and magic.

[SkinBasket]

Stern ran the NBA into oblivion in his quest to make it a superstar driven league. Sure, that worked with Jordan around. Without him, not so much.

The officiating is what killed it for me. The Bucks run to the Eastern finals was the last time I too any interest. That whole season, Milwaukee was playing against a 6th man on the floor, wearing black and white, whenever they played one of the "top" teams. I can still recall Malone essentially punching Tim Thomas is the gut to take the ball out of his hands as he drove the lane. And lets not even start on Shaq and kobe and the luxuries they were afforded. In the EF, the Bucks could have vacated the defensive half of the court and Iverson still would have gotten a whistle whenever he drove the lane.Anyway, it felt worse than watching the WWF after being told it wasn't real. It wasn't a conscious decision where I said, "fuck this, I'm mad and not watching this anymore." That season simply killed any interest I had in watching the league, at a time when most Milwaukee fans should have been excited, despite the loss to PHI.

Now I try to watch parts of a game here and there, but it's tough to keep my attention on it for more than a few minutes. The officiating has gotten better over the past 10 years, probably as a result of that official who was caught fixing games or whatever, and also because they didn't hire any more women officials. But the game is just kind of boring. As others have said, without even a semblance of defense, it's like watching a bunch of tall guys play HORSE. It's a shit league.

[pbmax]

It's not terribly worse than it was, but I think it used to be a lot better. The team concept, shortie shorts, players who could hit a midrange jumper - like the Ice Man Geroge Gervin, A Tree that bites Danny Ainge, Red Auerbach calling Don Nelson a whore, and Nelson getting fined for it, Kevin McHales' arm pit juice smeared in your face, hook shots from your big men, broken backboards from Chocolate Thunder - That's my NBA!

Well, the 3 point line took care of midrange jumpers everywhere. So while I may be nostalgic for Steve Mix hitting from Mixville, it will never be quite the same.

I do miss a better low post game. And I place the blame for that squarely on Ralph Sampson*. Should have dominated the low post but wanted to play outside and now every does. A small portion of the blame should also be apportioned to Bill Laimbeer and Brad Lohaus.

*Not really, but this phenomenon is truly weird. 7 footers looking to be wingman rather than settle for shots that have a 75% chance of going in.

[pbmax]

Stern ran the NBA into oblivion in his quest to make it a superstar driven league. Sure, that worked with Jordan around. Without him, not so much.

The officiating is what killed it for me. The Bucks run to the Eastern finals was the last time I too any interest. That whole season, Milwaukee was playing against a 6th man on the floor, wearing black and white, whenever they played one of the "top" teams. I can still recall Malone essentially punching Tim Thomas is the gut to take the ball out of his hands as he drove the lane. And lets not even start on Shaq and kobe and the luxuries they were afforded. In the EF, the Bucks could have vacated the defensive half of the court and Iverson still would have gotten a whistle whenever he drove the lane.Anyway, it felt worse than watching the WWF after being told it wasn't real. It wasn't a conscious decision where I said, "fuck this, I'm mad and not watching this anymore." That season simply killed any interest I had in watching the league, at a time when most Milwaukee fans should have been excited, despite the loss to PHI.

Now I try to watch parts of a game here and there, but it's tough to keep my attention on it for more than a few minutes. The officiating has gotten better over the past 10 years, probably as a result of that official who was caught fixing games or whatever, and also because they didn't hire any more women officials. But the game is just kind of boring. As others have said, without even a semblance of defense, it's like watching a bunch of tall guys play HORSE. It's a shit league.

Yes, yes and no, though I am not sure about refereeing getting better. The home court and star refereeing is abominable. At lease in the NFL the rulebook is completely indecipherable which leads to baffling rulings. In the NBA, its like watching the WWE refs. I think the game is better than in the 90s when Riley tried to kill basketball offense in its crib.

[Smidgeon]

Stern ran the NBA into oblivion in his quest to make it a superstar driven league. Sure, that worked with Jordan around. Without him, not so much.

The officiating is what killed it for me. The Bucks run to the Eastern finals was the last time I too any interest. That whole season, Milwaukee was playing against a 6th man on the floor, wearing black and white, whenever they played one of the "top" teams. I can still recall Malone essentially punching Tim Thomas is the gut to take the ball out of his hands as he drove the lane. And lets not even start on Shaq and kobe and the luxuries they were afforded. In the EF, the Bucks could have vacated the defensive half of the court and Iverson still would have gotten a whistle whenever he drove the lane.Anyway, it felt worse than watching the WWF after being told it wasn't real. It wasn't a conscious decision where I said, "fuck this, I'm mad and not watching this anymore." That season simply killed any interest I had in watching the league, at a time when most Milwaukee fans should have been excited, despite the loss to PHI.

Now I try to watch parts of a game here and there, but it's tough to keep my attention on it for more than a few minutes. The officiating has gotten better over the past 10 years, probably as a result of that official who was caught fixing games or whatever, and also because they didn't hire any more women officials. But the game is just kind of boring. As others have said, without even a semblance of defense, it's like watching a bunch of tall guys play HORSE. It's a shit league.

I pretty much agree. Except my hatred for the one-sided officiating stems from the Lakers, Kobe, and Shaq. They kept being handed games. Made me sick, and I lost interest in following the "sport".

[Upnorth]

Regarding Stern Vrs Goodell, the NBA had its strongest following at one point with Stern in charge, it has fallen to much lower levels since then. Under Goodell there has not been any weakness in the league and I doubt that the lockout will hurt it this year. If the league's strenght dips significantly under Goodell's watch, then we could compare the two, but so far Goodell is winning. Only time will tell so this disagreement can't be settled yet.
As an aside I am not a Bucks fan but they were jobbed in the east finals.

[smuggler]

God this thread reminds me what utter shit the NBA is!

[mraynrand]

You Lakers haters know that it was Fletch - 6'9" with the afro - who won all those championships for LA. Fletch truly defined grace under pressure!

http://www.creativejournalist.com/images/fletch%20afro.jpg

[TheRaven]

*Not really, but this phenomenon is truly weird. 7 footers looking to be wingman rather than settle for shots that have a 75% chance of going in.

I agree. There are a few aspects at play with that..I don't think there are enough big men that played a physical game teaching the game of basketball to younger players. I also think the mentality of young, gifted athletes concentrating on one sport has hurt the physical aspect of basketball perhaps more than any other major sport. Gone are the days where your big men in basketball also grew up playing a tough nosed position on the football team as well. Once they reach a certain height, they are shuttled off to the basketball program. Then taught by coaches that may not truly understand how to teach a big, young athlete to play with that physical presence and they have no other outside influence, such as football, to teach them how to use their size/strength to initiate contact and use it to their advantage.

Look at when Julius Peppers played basketball back at UNC. For a basketball player, his size wasn't great, but he was always a physical presence on the court. He never shied away from using his size and his mentality to bully bigger players.

[Pugger]

To me the NBA isn't a team sport any more. Yes, the officiating stinks but the game resembles a pick-up game with no defense. I find it rather boring.