Puzzling Offseasons: Bears, Vikes

[Fritz]

I am still shaking my head at the strange offseasons of two of the Pack's NFC North rivals. The third team, the Lions, signed a talented but injury-prone linebacker (Durant), then Stephen Tulloch for one year, and re-signed Houston, then signed Eric Wright. They appear to have improved themselves. It remains to be seen if Stafford can stay healthy, and Leos' fans are nervous that Nick Fairley might be fairly hurt already. He was spotted in a walking boot today. Still, Lions' fans here are all talking 9-7 to 11-5 and the playoffs.

But the Vikes and the Bears...what are they doing? Perhaps the Vikes are easier to figure out - with a new stadium always a desire, the team doesn't seem to want to go through a full-scale re-building, so they're cobbling together a team: Donovan McNabb, signing a new left tackle (Charlie Johnson? Is that his name?), cutting McKinnie, letting Rice go, but thinking about signing Braylon Edwards.

The Williams Wall is starting to crack. I'm not intimately familiar with the team, but there doesn't seem to be a plethora of young talent. Adrian Peterson is still in his prime but is taking a beating, much like Earl Campbell once did. When he loses it, he'll lose it fast and furiously.

The Bears, though, are the real mystery. Olin Kreutz is gone, correct? Tommie Harris, gone. And their signings have been odd - didn't they sign Roy Williams? But oddest of all, to me, was trading Greg Olsen - the one player besides Devin Hester that Packer fans seemed to fear a bit. It's a weird mish-mash of a team, and it's hard to imagine an aging linebacking corps leading this team once again to a NFC North title. Jay Cutler's last game last season seemed to seal his reputation as a quitter (whether it's deserved or not is another matter), and the Bears' weird offseason just spotlights the ineptness of their front office. Were it not for Lovie Smith, that team would be in a stinkhole, year after year.

[3irty1]

The Vikings also lost Ray Edwards, with retirement and suspension I think they might only be returning Allen to the DL to start the year. Greenway was franchised so their LBers will be as good as they were last year, their secondary is a mess and I'm pretty sure that they don't have an NFL caliber safety on the roster. I'm no expert but I have played Madden and when you run the cover two there are these two giant blue circles that are supposed to be the responsibilities of safeties--They are going to astound everybody with their shittiness this year.

The Bears got Roy Williams who I thought was a great signing. He was actually good in Det with Martz and is leagues ahead of any of their other WR in terms of talent. If Cutler to Williams can be 1/10th of what Cutler to Marshall was like then their offense is 3x better this year. Marion Barber was a little head scratchy--I don't see how he's worth 5 mil. Its pretty Jerry Angeloesk to horde busted DL guys like Gholston and Okoye. They got ripped off for Greg Olson only getting a 3rd in return. Go ahead and trade him, Martz doesn't use him anyways but at least get good value. Worst move might be letting Daniel Manning walk. He was a damn fine player and I'm not sure they have an NFL caliber safety on their roster anymore either.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The problem with the Vikes is that they will never admit they are in a rebuilding mode, not with the stadium situation looming over them. They sign McNabb and proclaim they think they are now playoff bound. I know a lot of Vikes fans that think this outlook is a joke and know their team isn't all that good.

[Fritz]

But the Bears...Lovie as head coach and Madman Mike Martz wanting to zing the ball all over in year #2 - no need for a tight end for this guy!

I'm not a Roy Williams fan, at all. I don't see him doing that much.

[vince]

I don't think the Bears hurt themselves this offseason, but may not have helped themselves a bunch either. It looks like their OL could continue to be their achilles heal.

[TheRaven]

But the Bears...Lovie as head coach and Madman Mike Martz wanting to zing the ball all over in year #2 - no need for a tight end for this guy!

I'm not a Roy Williams fan, at all. I don't see him doing that much.

Chicago is trying to build the system around Martz, who probably wasn't going to utilize Olsen to his potential. Give him a TE that can stay back and help block, and can catch the occasional ball in the end zone and he will be fine. His raving about Rasheed Davis is just cover smoke for saying he doesn't plan to utilize the position much this next year.

Roy Williams was a worthwhile move. They got him for a 1yr deal @ 1.5 million. He played in a Martz system for two years already. Even if he is no longer a top tier WR, he can be a productive member of that offense and be another guy to take pressure off of some of their other young WRs.

Am I still worried about them though? No.

[mraynrand]

McNabb is going to look like a bait ball at a feeding frenzy behind that Minnesota line. McNabb has lost speed, quickness, and even accuracy (I know, that seems impossible, right?). He might last four maybe five games. Is that enough time to get the rookie ready to throw all those INTs?

[mraynrand]

Chicago is trying to build the system around Martz ...

Martz is even less mobile than McNabb....

[LP]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/03/as-of-tuesday-seven-teams-were-over-the-cap/

According to this, the Vikings are 5.6 million over the cap (as of yesterday). Not sure if cutting McKinney cleared this or not. I do wonder though, how much dead money do they have invested it the quarterback postion?

[Joemailman]

Unfortunately for the Vikes, Sidney Rice just couldn't resist the opportunity to have Tarvaris Jackson as his QB. McKinnie showed up to training camp out of shape (even for him), so I can't really criticize that move. A new coach needs to set a standard of what will be expected.

The Bears moves do seem a bit odd. The move to move kickoffs to the 35 could hurt then more than any other team.

[3irty1]

The Bears moves do seem a bit odd. The move to move kickoffs to the 35 could hurt then more than any other team.

Why? Hester hasn't returned kickoffs for a few seasons, its been Manning and he's gone now.

[Joemailman]

Why? Hester hasn't returned kickoffs for a few seasons, its been Manning and he's gone now.

Bears were still #2 in the NFL in KO returns last year. My reasoning was that due to their mediocre offense, they rely more on getting good field position than a team like the Packers. Their return units are excellent, no matter who the returner is. If the rule change significantly reduces the importance of KO returns, I think that hurts them.

[Rastak]

But the Vikes and the Bears...what are they doing? Perhaps the Vikes are easier to figure out - with a new stadium always a desire, the team doesn't seem to want to go through a full-scale re-building, so they're cobbling together a team: Donovan McNabb, signing a new left tackle (Charlie Johnson? Is that his name?), cutting McKinnie, letting Rice go, but thinking about signing Braylon Edwards.

The Williams Wall is starting to crack. I'm not intimately familiar with the team, but there doesn't seem to be a plethora of young talent. Adrian Peterson is still in his prime but is taking a beating, much like Earl Campbell once did. When he loses it, he'll lose it fast and furiously.


What up Fritz?

1) QB - 1 guy who has a couple games experience and was div II guy. 1 guy off a practice squad and 1 guy a rookie. With absolutely no offseason what would you propose? They got a guy with experience to play the position until the rook is ready. Who publicly states we suck? Nobody.
2) They signed a left tackle with 54 starts when they realized the dude who is supposed to play at 335 is 390+. Makes sense to me.
3) With not a great cap situation, giving a dude with 1 good year and a potentially career affecting injury is a huge gamble. Could work out for the Hawks. The dude has great hands.
4) DL - They have younger guys. Kevin's suspension's gonna sting though.
5) They have a bunch of receivers in camp, no idea how that will shake out.

[Lurker64]

Really, there's only so much you can do in the offseason because of the lockout. In a full normal offseason a team like the Vikings could do more to turn things around, but having to compress it all in a few weeks makes it tough, particularly with a new coach. Add to this the fact that the Vikings are currently over the salary cap, which does make it harder to sign free agents. So the Vikings offseason was pretty much going to be a mess due to things beyond the control of the coaches and players.

[Upnorth]

For the Vikings, I think they have been backed into a corner where they have to react to previous years problems which have been pushed till now as pointed out by Rastak above (well done by the way).
I much prefer what the bears have done, only Williams is an improvement from last year. Who doesn't like to see a division rival flushed down the bowl? Now when we have to double team Peppers, the push up the middle wont be as bad.

The lions on the other hand frighten me. There D is looking better and better, I am very thankful they have not picked up anyone who is good in the secondary. Also if Staffords shoulder injury does not have any lingering effects he has potential.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But oddest of all, to me, was trading Greg Olsen - the one player besides Devin Hester that Packer fans seemed to fear a bit.

I found this a puzzling move too. I think an explanation I read somewhere was "Greg Olsen was underutilized in their offensive system." Change the offense to fit a talented young player. Throw him the ball, don't throw away the player.

[sharpe1027]

Sports Center had a bit this morning that said the Lions were over the cap, something like 8Mil. It should be interesting to see how they cope with that.

[Scott Campbell]

What up Fritz?

1) QB - 1 guy who has a couple games experience and was div II guy. 1 guy off a practice squad and 1 guy a rookie. With absolutely no offseason what would you propose? They got a guy with experience to play the position until the rook is ready. Who publicly states we suck? Nobody.
2) They signed a left tackle with 54 starts when they realized the dude who is supposed to play at 335 is 390+. Makes sense to me.
3) With not a great cap situation, giving a dude with 1 good year and a potentially career affecting injury is a huge gamble. Could work out for the Hawks. The dude has great hands.
4) DL - They have younger guys. Kevin's suspension's gonna sting though.
5) They have a bunch of receivers in camp, no idea how that will shake out.


Holy cow. Wist sounds more upbeat.

[pbmax]

I found this a puzzling move too. I think an explanation I read somewhere was "Greg Olsen was underutilized in their offensive system." Change the offense to fit a talented young player. Throw him the ball, don't throw away the player.

Not with Mike Martz you don't. Same with Al Saunders and the other 3rd generation Coryell guys.

[sheepshead]

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
Napoleon Bonaparte

[pbmax]

Holy cow. Wist sounds more upbeat.

Rodgers Super Bowl MVP has thrown him for a loop. He's practically giddy.

[Bossman641]

I'm not sure what the Bears are doing. The only thing that could have made it sweeter was if Forte had held out. It sounds like Martz wanted Spaeth. He also personally wanted Manumaleuna last year so let's hope Spaeth turns out just as well. Olsen was the only receiving threat that scared me just because he could get down the seam. I really hope Martz jumps ship after this year, that will just compound the Bears mistake.

[Fritz]

What up Fritz?

1) QB - 1 guy who has a couple games experience and was div II guy. 1 guy off a practice squad and 1 guy a rookie. With absolutely no offseason what would you propose? They got a guy with experience to play the position until the rook is ready. Who publicly states we suck? Nobody.
2) They signed a left tackle with 54 starts when they realized the dude who is supposed to play at 335 is 390+. Makes sense to me.
3) With not a great cap situation, giving a dude with 1 good year and a potentially career affecting injury is a huge gamble. Could work out for the Hawks. The dude has great hands.
4) DL - They have younger guys. Kevin's suspension's gonna sting though.
5) They have a bunch of receivers in camp, no idea how that will shake out.

Ras! Good to hear from you!

As for the comments about Olsen, and finding players to fit the system, I think that is true in football but not so much in other major sports. Especially basketball. In that game, the coach needs to tailor his system to the kind of talent he has.

[smuggler]

The Vikings also lost Ray Edwards, with retirement and suspension I think they might only be returning Allen to the DL to start the year. Greenway was franchised so their LBers will be as good as they were last year, their secondary is a mess and I'm pretty sure that they don't have an NFL caliber safety on the roster. I'm no expert but I have played Madden and when you run the cover two there are these two giant blue circles that are supposed to be the responsibilities of safeties--They are going to astound everybody with their shittiness this year.

The Bears got Roy Williams who I thought was a great signing. He was actually good in Det with Martz and is leagues ahead of any of their other WR in terms of talent. If Cutler to Williams can be 1/10th of what Cutler to Marshall was like then their offense is 3x better this year. Marion Barber was a little head scratchy--I don't see how he's worth 5 mil. Its pretty Jerry Angeloesk to horde busted DL guys like Gholston and Okoye. They got ripped off for Greg Olson only getting a 3rd in return. Go ahead and trade him, Martz doesn't use him anyways but at least get good value. Worst move might be letting Daniel Manning walk. He was a damn fine player and I'm not sure they have an NFL caliber safety on their roster anymore either.

+1 Rep for insights.

On another forum I frequent, a Bears fan predicted their 2011 season as 11-5. He predicted victories over GB (once), NO, SD, and KC. I made a bet that the Bears could not defeat 3 of those 4 teams. Wish me luck, haha! ;)