Gilbert Brown says . . Packer fans - BE PATIENT.

[woodbuck27]

Posted August 13, 2006

Chris Havel column: Brown's advice: Be patient with Packers


By Chris Havel

WEST ALLIS — Gilbert Brown didn't pull any punches. The "Grave Digger" only could shake his head at a lot of what he saw in the Green Bay Packers' preseason opener at San Diego on Saturday night. At times, he sounded part player, part TV commentator and all former Packers nose tackle.

But for all the sloppy play early, Brown stressed that Packers fans need to patient. He said the key to the season, in his opinion, is the offensive line.

"The offensive line is going to make or break this team," he said.

"And I'm a defensive guy. If those three guys (center Scott Wells and guards Daryn Colledge and Jason Spitz) hold up on the front line, they should be OK. If they don't, it could be worse than last year."

Brown, 35, who is part owner of the Milwaukee Mile race track in West Allis, was here to sign autographs and promote the track.

He built time into his schedule to watch his favorite team, and he wasted no time offering no-holds-barred opinions.

"Samkon Gado's returning kickoffs?" he said. "What are they trying to do? Get him messed up early? Did I miss something, or is Ahman Green totally healthy?"

Two plays later, Brett Favre was hit as he threw a pass, and it prompted Brown to say, "Get Brett out of there."

Brown rolled his eyes when the Packers' first-round draft pick, outside linebacker A.J. Hawk, got beat by the Chargers' Antonio Gates for a 17-yard gain early in the first quarter.

"Hawk's a (middle) linebacker," he said. "They need to move (Nick) Barnett outside."

When Chargers receiver Kennen McCardell outmaneuvered cornerback Al Harris for what appeared to be a 17-yard touchdown reception on the same drive,

Brown immediately said, "He didn't have both feet in."

After the touchdown was overturned by replay, Brown added, "If the Chargers had any (guts), they'd come right back with the same play."

Presto! Moments later, Vincent Jackson beat Ahmad Carroll for a touchdown on the same play.

In a flurry of plays, Carroll was beaten for a touchdown and penalized for a personal foul. He also made a devastating hit, except it was the back judge that went flying.

Brown declined to comment on Carroll, but he did say,

"I think (Charles) Woodson's going to step up to the challenge, but I still see Al Harris being the man. If they get the two of them playing at a high level, nobody will be able to mess with them. Where are they going to throw the ball?"

After the Chargers' first touchdown, I asked Brown what the defense was feeling.

"They're saying, 'Oh, well. It's preseason,'" he said. "That's not how you want the rookies to think, but that's what the veterans are saying to themselves."

Brown admitted it is difficult to watch the Packers play, even if it was only a quarter before he had to leave to pick up former teammate Santana Dotson at an airport.

"Hell, yeah, it's tough," he said. "That's why I don't mind going to get Santana. But tell the fans to be patient. It's way too early to jump off the Tower Drive Bridge."


Chris Havel can be reached by voice mail at (920) 431-8586 or by e-mail at chavel@greenbay.gannett.com

Comment:

There's - no shit comments there!

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH ! !

[Packnut]

Unless we have some kind of miracle to fix the O line, we're gonna need more than patience. We're gonna need plenty of booze.

[red]

and thats why fans still love gilbert

there has to be a spot with the team somewhere for him. he'd make a great coach, or PR guy or motivator

as for hawks blown coverage, lets be realistic before we give up all hope on hawk being able to cover. it was antonio gates, no one could stop him last year

[woodbuck27]

Unless we have some kind of miracle to fix the O line, we're gonna need more than patience. We're gonna need plenty of booze.

In my back and forth with b bulldog after the game last night :

THAT was the conclusion for us.

We are in the doo doo, with OUR inexperience on the OL. The most vital area for the game we need on "O". It's that . . then QB closely behind, followed by RB's then WR's then TE's all closely related. The OL is vital to any success of an NFL team and of course, we all know that.

My question:

Why doesn't Ted Thompson - know that?

My answer:

Of course he does, but that doesn't matter to him. He again this season - has Ted's agenda. It's upsetting to me. He's not doing "Dick All" to protect his QUARTERBACK. DAM ! :sad:

The fundamentle issue in establishing a decent Offense has been for all intents and purposes ignored by Ted Thompson again this season, and a recovery will only come (maybe) sometime next season.

This season is squarely on Ted Thompson. He should be concerned.

[Patler]

as for hawks blown coverage, lets be realistic before we give up all hope on hawk being able to cover. it was antonio gates, no one could stop him last year

Exactly. One of the best receiving TEs in the entire NFL vs. rookie linebacker in his first NFL game. Did anyone expect Hawk to make no mistakes in that situation?

[woodbuck27]

as for hawks blown coverage, lets be realistic before we give up all hope on hawk being able to cover. it was antonio gates, no one could stop him last year

Exactly. One of the best receiving TEs in the entire NFL vs. rookie linebacker in his first NFL game. Did anyone expect Hawk to make no mistakes in that situation?

One of the things I was looking for before the game.

Antonio Gates = Really Tough Assignment. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! FAITH !!

[Packnut]

Unless we have some kind of miracle to fix the O line, we're gonna need more than patience. We're gonna need plenty of booze.

In my back and forth with b bulldog after the game last night :

THAT was the conclusion for us.

We are in the doo doo, with OUR inexperience on the OL. The most vital area for the game we need on "O". It's that . . then QB closely behind, followed by RB's then WR's then TE's all closely related. The OL is vital to any success of an NFL team and of course, we all know that.

My question:

Why doesn't Ted Thompson - know that?

My answer:

Of course he does, but that doesn't matter to him. He again this season - has Ted's agenda. It's upsetting to me. He's not doing "Dick All" to protect his QUARTERBACK. DAM ! :sad:

The fundamentle issue in establishing a decent Offense has been for all intents and purposes ignored by Ted Thompson again this season, and a recovery will only come (maybe) sometime next season.

This season is squarely on Ted Thompson. He should be concerned.

woodbuck- it is very obvious that TT's biggest weakness is in evaluating and placing importance of the Oline. We had a very good blue chip player in Wahle and TT made no effort to keep him. Yes, we had salary cap problems but other teams in the same situation have been imaginative enough to keep their blue chip players.

[Partial]

Unless we have some kind of miracle to fix the O line, we're gonna need more than patience. We're gonna need plenty of booze.

In my back and forth with b bulldog after the game last night :

THAT was the conclusion for us.

We are in the doo doo, with OUR inexperience on the OL. The most vital area for the game we need on "O". It's that . . then QB closely behind, followed by RB's then WR's then TE's all closely related. The OL is vital to any success of an NFL team and of course, we all know that.

My question:

Why doesn't Ted Thompson - know that?

My answer:

Of course he does, but that doesn't matter to him. He again this season - has Ted's agenda. It's upsetting to me. He's not doing "Dick All" to protect his QUARTERBACK. DAM ! :sad:

The fundamentle issue in establishing a decent Offense has been for all intents and purposes ignored by Ted Thompson again this season, and a recovery will only come (maybe) sometime next season.

This season is squarely on Ted Thompson. He should be concerned.

woodbuck- it is very obvious that TT's biggest weakness is in evaluating and placing importance of the Oline. We had a very good blue chip player in Wahle and TT made no effort to keep him. Yes, we had salary cap problems but other teams in the same situation have been imaginative enough to keep their blue chip players.

You can't spend tackle money on a guard, though. The panther's brought Wahle into play tackle, I believe, and then ended up switching him to left guard again. TT seems to follow the NE strategy. The only guy that is indispensible is the man under center. That, paired with strong drafting = success

[Bretsky]

The Pathers brought Wahle in with the understanding that he MIGHT play Tackle. He's one of the best OG's in the NFL. Throw those cliche's about paying an OG OT money. Not valid with today's structure anymore. Look what Hutchinson received; others will follow.

Hutchinson was a special player.

Wahle was 26 and a special player going into his prime. I have a hard time just letting that go without a fight.

[woodbuck27]

The Mike Wahle issue has been discussed to death and it's behind us. Now it was up to Ted Thompson to fix what we all saw last Season - as a really serious problem on OUR OL. We certainly have a problem with depth there.

Was he going to do that in the draft. ** Not for this season.

He's the draft Guru ( according to some here) and he know just that **, so why leave us so naked for 2006? He has exposed us terribly by exposing whomever plays QB. That sucks and isn't right.

He exposes OUR RB's as well. Oh I'm forgetting that OUR Offence will feature the short pass over the run on something like a 55-45 % ratio.

My response. Does he expect us to swallow that horseshit? Does he expect the teams that we face not to be able to defend against that?

GG give that a rest - PLEASE. Any successful Team must establish a solid running game or it all caves in.

This season is on Ted Thompson.

The OL - NO ! The QB's and RB's - NO !

Ted Thompson will be called on the mat, if we fall flat on OUR ass's this season. He had to know what he had to do to get his team back on the rails.

GO PACKERS !

[Patler]

woodbuck- it is very obvious that TT's biggest weakness is in evaluating and placing importance of the Oline. We had a very good blue chip player in Wahle and TT made no effort to keep him. Yes, we had salary cap problems but other teams in the same situation have been imaginative enough to keep their blue chip players.

Sorry, but that is just too simplistic of an evaluation. The Packers cap situation was very precarious on March 1. They needed to do some drastic things to get under the off-season cap. The tried to renegotiate with Wahle, but he was due a huge bonus, and any renegotiation would have to make up for that. Thus, no matter what they could have done to resign him, he would still have had a significant impact on the cap, and more drastic measures would have been needed to get under the cap. Wahle signed two days later with the Panthers, not giving GB much time to make any further adjustments necessary to sign him after releasing him.

Remember too that the Packers were trying hard to get Sharper to renegotiate to gain cap room. He refused. This was obviously the right decision for him as he got his money from the Vikings, but also put the Packers in a very difficult cap situation.

Then too I read several times that TT had no intention of losing both guards, but the price got so high for Wahle that they decided to instead try to keep Rivera who they thought would be easier to re-sign. When the Cowboys offered Rivera almost as much as Wahle received, that was out of the question for the Packers, too.

If other teams are able to keep their blue chip players, why did we see lineman like Hutchinson and Bentley both go to different teams this season?
or New England lose Vinatieri? or Glover be released by Dallas and signed by the Rams after his 6th pro-bowl season? or Javon Kearse leave the Titans in 2004? or 8 time pro-bowl guard Ruben Brown leave the Bills in 2004?

These are players just as good or better than Wahle, and their teams couldn't keep them. Sometimes, you just can't.

[RashanGary]

On the bright side, had we kept Wahle we wouldn't have Hawk right now. We'd have Greenway :)

[BananaMan]

Patler, have I ever told you that you're one of my favorite posters?

Would I have like to keep Wahle? Of course. I wanted to keep him more than anything. But I also realize that it was unrealistic, and almost impossible to pull off. We just didn't have any cap room to do anything.

[Patler]

Thanks BananaMan!
BTW - good to see you here!

[SD GB fan]

i dun remember if any LB covered gates effectively for whole game last year but i do believe lynch and polomaulu put some fear in gates. that means we will need collins or manuel to step up against receiving TEs.

[TOP HAT]

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, THE MAJOR ROOKIES ARE MAKING AN IMPACT
AND SIMPLY WILL GET BETTER.

THE OL?? WE WILL KNOW BY OPENING DAY HOW THE YEAR WILL GO
IN CHICAGO.

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

[Joemailman]

and thats why fans still love gilbert

there has to be a spot with the team somewhere for him. he'd make a great coach, or PR guy or motivator

as for hawks blown coverage, lets be realistic before we give up all hope on hawk being able to cover. it was antonio gates, no one could stop him last year


In pre-season games, coaches will create certain matchups just to see how the player handles it. I highly doubt that if this were a regular season game, you would see Hawk trying to cover Antonio Gates by himself 10-15 yards downfield.

[woodbuck27]

Bump.

[PTPaQ]

You win and lose football games in the trenches, and the trenches, on both sides of the ball, are probably the weakest part of this team.

Not a good thing.

[jack's smirking revenge]

You win and lose football games in the trenches, and the trenches, on both sides of the ball, are probably the weakest part of this team.

Not a good thing.

Totally agree with you PTP. And nice post Patler. I was bummed to see Wahle go, but sometimes great players price themselves out of our market. Wahle was a great case of that. We couldn't lock down Sharper, Wahle and Rivera all in the same offseason.

As for the importance of the position, I think there are arguments for and against. It takes a team to build a great RB. Alexander couldn't do it alone. But there was more than just Hutch on that Oline in Seattle. Sure, he was a major contributor, but he didn't blow all the holes by himself. And ask the Browns how they're doing now? Bentley eats up a ton of cap and is now sitting on the bench for the year.

I agree that NFL battles are won and loss in the trenches, but you also can't break your bank on too many players in that position. (which brings me to a very fun idea for a thread...)

tyler

[run pMc]

Totally agree with Patler. We didn't have the cap space for Wahle OR Rivera. The offers they got were crazy - esp. Rivera's. I seem to recall a lot of rumors swirling that Wahle didn't want to stay in GB, and he'd have gone elsewhere if the $ was the same. That was last off-season; obsessing about it now is pointless and overdone. I'm kinda sick & bored with that topic...Wahle's gone...deal with it.

I also seem to recall lots of people calling for drafting a boatload of OL guys...which TT did. You can't hang the guy for not bringing anyone in. (The proof: Whitticker's not starting.) It's unrealistic to plug a rookie OL -- or two -- into the starting lineup and expect the 1st preseason game to be flawless.

There's not a lot out there for starter-quality veteran OL's. If there was, they'd be in camp. Give the line more time to gel and we'll see where we are. The coaches (and fans) want improvement each week, so cross your fingers. I'd love for the line to be in sync for Week 1, but I'm guessing it will be about week 5 before they really find a groove.