HGH Testing Part of the New CBA

[vince]

The NFL has now become the first professional sports organization to include blood testing for HGH. What impact do you think this will have on the league?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834391/nfl-players-ratify-collective-bargaining-agreement-which-includes-hgh-testing-sources-say

[red]

the players fought very hard to not let this happen.

i think we're going to see a lot of guys getting busted, or a lot of guys that for some strange reason stop playing at the same level they were before the testing went into effect

how long does that stuff stay in your system? does it stay in a long time, or is it gone in a week? does anyone know?

[hoosier]

Maybe a minor impact on recovery time from injuries with former users. HGH really doesn't have any proven benefit for performance.

Maybe the most dramatic effect will be that Bobblehead will cancel his NFL Network subscription and start an anti-Goodell crusade.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of NFL players used last year.

[vince]

I'm no expert, but if there wasn't any performance benefit, noone would be taking it.

[smuggler]

It helps you heal, which helps you train more frequently. Still, it's (mostly) the training that directly benefits the player, not the hormone.

[sharpe1027]

It helps you heal, which helps you train more frequently. Still, it's (mostly) the training that directly benefits the player, not the hormone.

Does it really matter the exact manner in which you are given an edge? If you can train more and are stronger/faster because of it, the end result is still unfair to honest players. Besides, I've heard similar training/recovery arguments made for steroids.

[Lurker64]

There will be minimal impact unless HGH testing technology improves dramatically. The current test only really can indicate if you took HGH in the last 48 hours. I would be surprised if a single NFL player failed this test.

The primary value of this is so the NFL can say "look at how tough on PEDs we are! None of the other sports leagues test for this!"

[sharpe1027]

There will be minimal impact unless HGH testing technology improves dramatically. The current test only really can indicate if you took HGH in the last 48 hours. I would be surprised if a single NFL player failed this test.

The primary value of this is so the NFL can say "look at how tough on PEDs we are! None of the other sports leagues test for this!"

I bet there would still will be at least one player dumb enough to get caught. Just look at the stupid shit they do right now. ;)

[pbmax]

http://twitter.com/#!/injuryexpert/status/99205594854076417


HGH testing ineffective bc of short detectable period, low usage. It's expensive, trackable. More caught bc of FedEx than tests.

Minimal impact. And everyone is forgetting minor league baseball.

And the number of users found in minor league baseball? Zero. I have no good answer for this, but trumpeting this test is like celebrating eliminating one ant on a hill. It ignores the far larger work to be done.

[bobblehead]

Maybe a minor impact on recovery time from injuries with former users. HGH really doesn't have any proven benefit for performance.

Maybe the most dramatic effect will be that Bobblehead will cancel his NFL Network subscription and start an anti-Goodell crusade.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of NFL players used last year.

For the record I don't think professional athletes should take a performance enhancing drug. You like to mock me for something you obviously know little about.

As for Red's question, it will be pretty hard to bust these guys if they can get ahold of it. Baseball dug into records of doctors that were providing it and got to players that way. It clears the blood within hours. The biggest effect it has is in recovery. You have to use pretty good sized doses to build size and with that comes swelling of the joints so its a trade off. Baseball guys used it in moderation for day to day recovery and to help the joints stay healthy in conjunction with steroids to build muscle. The biggest benefit of all would be for recovery of orthopedic surgeries.

[pbmax]

Also of note, League sock puppet Greg Aiello had a lot of fun Twittering his indignation that a NYTimes article got the number of tests per year wrong in its analysis of the new test.

What Sir Gregory of Flackdom fails to mention is that his one scheduled test per year PLUS unannounced tests sounds EXACTLY like the League's drug policy. And the problem with it is potentially the same: its got a giant logic hole in the center that practically guarantees that anyone with a brain can beat the tests and still use as long as they have a little self control (ie are not Johnny Jolly).

The League does offseason tests randomly, but only once per player. That is, while the dates can vary, once they are tested, they don't get tested again in the offseason. So to use, all they need to do is hold off until the test and then they are free until training camp.

No one, to my knowledge has seen the exact verbiage and according to some published accounts, its still being developed. But if it uses the same logic, rules and calendar as drug testing, it will be very easy to bypass. It will be hard to schedule surgery around it, but determined players will be able to find a way, even if they are late to camp because of it.

[Lurker64]

. And the problem with it is potentially the same: its got a giant logic hole in the center that practically guarantees that anyone with a brain can beat the tests and still use as long as they have a little self control (ie are not Johnny Jolly).

Jolly didn't even get caught by the drug testing program, did he? He just got in trouble because he got busted by the cops for rolling with lean, and there was enough of it and he was a big enough name that the cops wanted to make a big deal about it.

I think it was Jamarcus Russell who failed an NFL drug test for drank, though.

[rbaloha1]

The NFL has now become the first professional sports organization to include blood testing for HGH. What impact do you think this will have on the league?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834391/nfl-players-ratify-collective-bargaining-agreement-which-includes-hgh-testing-sources-say

Big impact. Lets hope the NFL adopts Olympic protocols.

[bobblehead]

Big impact. Lets hope the NFL adopts Olympic protocols.

How many olympic athletes have failed tests for HgH?

[pbmax]

Well, color my interpretation of the number of tests dead wrong: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/league-intends-to-create-constant-threat-of-hgh-testing/


Apart from the annual test that will be conducted in the preseason, players will be subject to six random offseason tests and an unlimited number of in-season tests. “That could be, if a person were particularly lucky or unlucky, it could be 22 or 23 times,” Birch said. “I don’t suspect it will be that much, but the number of test dates that we will have, I would certainly expect our players to be tested in an amount that would be meaningful.”

My prediction has gone from the testing being basically ineffective to basically ludicrous. But ludicrous enough that using will be hard to accomplish if the offseason tests are truly random.

[mission]

Not sure Im a fan of this... can't take awayball the Steelers '70s SB victories so we might as well roll with it.

[Lurker64]

Well, color my interpretation of the number of tests dead wrong: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/league-intends-to-create-constant-threat-of-hgh-testing/



My prediction has gone from the testing being basically ineffective to basically ludicrous. But ludicrous enough that using will be hard to accomplish if the offseason tests are truly random.

I still think that the system is super-easy to beat, especially during the offseason. The window for a positive test result is at most 48 hours, and players don't have to make themselves available for drug tests every waking hour of the offseason, do they? I mean, you could go away for the weekend, take HGH on Friday night and if they wanted to test you on Monday Morning, you wouldn't test positive.

I think this is more for show than anything else, at least not until we get a better test.

[Guiness]

Well, color my interpretation of the number of tests dead wrong: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/league-intends-to-create-constant-threat-of-hgh-testing/



My prediction has gone from the testing being basically ineffective to basically ludicrous. But ludicrous enough that using will be hard to accomplish if the offseason tests are truly random.

Indeed. The logistics of such a program are mind boggling. 2000 players, 6 tests during the offseason = 12,000 tests need to be completed. If the offseason is 7 months long, that's 57 tests/day, seven day a week.

How would the tests be conducted? Are you going to have people running around administering the tests? If that's the case, you'd be lucky if one person got 3-4 tests done per day. Some tests would take a whole day to get done (isending someone to Hattiesburg, for instance). You're looking at what, 15-20 guys full time just to get the samples??? If the nature of the drug is as Bobble said, and it clears the system in a few hours, you can't tell the player to report for a test...

[bobblehead]

The problem with trying to test for HgH is that its bioIdentical to your bodies hormone. You have to determine there is too much in the bloodstream and if an athlete is taking it for healing purposes he takes it before bed and its almost undetectable by morning. If he is popping 5IU a day and splitting it morning and night you probably get him, but the only reason to do that is to gain SERIOUS size.

[mission]

The problem with trying to test for HgH is that its bioIdentical to your bodies hormone. You have to determine there is too much in the bloodstream and if an athlete is taking it for healing purposes he takes it before bed and its almost undetectable by morning. If he is popping 5IU a day and splitting it morning and night you probably get him, but the only reason to do that is to gain SERIOUS size.

Good info... seems like a lot of guys would use it to some extent if you can just dose smaller for recovery.

I'm thinking back to some "miraculous" recoveries and ya gotta wonder...

[Guiness]

Good info... seems like a lot of guys would use it to some extent if you can just dose smaller for recovery.

I'm thinking back to some "miraculous" recoveries and ya gotta wonder...

Yup. A guy like TO is supposed to be back to near 100% - and being an FA, probably doesn't fall under the rules right now.

[mission]

And really, I don't think I have a problem with that. Feel like I should -- as I did with baseball -- but controlled usage seems logical for the sport if it's deemed safe enough. Not sure if it is.

And from what I know, it doesn't skew much from a historical perspective because some form of PEDs have been around in the game since they started getting serious about getting big.

I love the fact that the NFL is the biggest, strongest, fastest. Hmm. Doubt many will agree.

[sharpe1027]

And really, I don't think I have a problem with that. Feel like I should -- as I did with baseball -- but controlled usage seems logical for the sport if it's deemed safe enough. Not sure if it is.

And from what I know, it doesn't skew much from a historical perspective because some form of PEDs have been around in the game since they started getting serious about getting big.

I love the fact that the NFL is the biggest, strongest, fastest. Hmm. Doubt many will agree.

It is always a bit of a grey area as to what is OK and what is not OK. I think that one measure that could be used is whether the advantage is significant enough that if enough other players are using the PED it is very difficult to compete unless you use the PED. If that is the case and you allow the PED to be used, then you are basically telling players that the MUST use the PED if they want to be in the NFL.

I would rather error on the side of forcing players not to use a PED than have the possibility of forcing players to use a PED.

[Smidgeon]

Yup. A guy like TO is supposed to be back to near 100% - and being an FA, probably doesn't fall under the rules right now.

Some people are fast healers naturally. I know that because I am, and I've never taken anything more than codeine in my life (except muscle relaxers and morphine once in the ER). I can easily imagine that some athletes who are exceptionally gifted are also fast healers (not all, but some). For example, someone in peak physical condition would have fewer obstacles to recovery as someone out of shape and overweight. The body would have less to overcome. And probably someone who naturally heals fast has a slight advantage as an athlete since they're injured less frequently and are available more. Maybe TO is gifted such a way. I don't like him, but maybe.

[Guiness]

Some people are fast healers naturally. I know that because I am, and I've never taken anything more than codeine in my life (except muscle relaxers and morphine once in the ER). I can easily imagine that some athletes who are exceptionally gifted are also fast healers (not all, but some). For example, someone in peak physical condition would have fewer obstacles to recovery as someone out of shape and overweight. The body would have less to overcome. And probably someone who naturally heals fast has a slight advantage as an athlete since they're injured less frequently and are available more. Maybe TO is gifted such a way. I don't like him, but maybe.

You're absolutely correct. Healing and getting into shape is their job.

I rolled my ankle this spring. The dreaded 'high ankle sprain'. It's better, I'd put it at 90%. I can do most non-court sport activities. Why not 100? Because I don't go to physio, get weekly MRI's to check progress, work out twice a day and sleep in a hypobaric chamber. TO can do all of these things, plus the point you make about being a fast healer.

But there's a limit to all of those things. From sportsline


We'd be shocked if Owens was back on the field playing at a high level come Week 1 or even Week 8. That would mean a full recovery from a torn ACL in just four months -- unheard of.

If, at 37yrs old, he does come back week 1...my belief of 'quick healing' goes about as far as Dennis Mitchell's excuse that his testosterone levels were off the chart because he'd had 'beer and sex with his wife at least four times the night before!'

[Smidgeon]

You're absolutely correct. Healing and getting into shape is their job.

I rolled my ankle this spring. The dreaded 'high ankle sprain'. It's better, I'd put it at 90%. I can do most non-court sport activities. Why not 100? Because I don't go to physio, get weekly MRI's to check progress, work out twice a day and sleep in a hypobaric chamber. TO can do all of these things, plus the point you make about being a fast healer.

But there's a limit to all of those things. From sportsline



If, at 37yrs old, he does come back week 1...my belief of 'quick healing' goes about as far as Dennis Mitchell's excuse that his testosterone levels were off the chart because he'd had 'beer and sex with his wife at least four times the night before!'

What about his recovery from a broken foot with the Eagles? That was unheard of too. And he was surrounded by doctors for that healing, presumably without a chance of additional "juicing".