When will be the time to worry about McCarthy?

[Terry]

Given my time zone, I don't bother to stay up to the middle of the night to listen to night preseason games like I do during the season, if I can (they don't end until 5:00 AM). I have to say that I was dismayed to wake up and read the score of last night's game. Not so much that we lost, but that we scored three miserable points.

Now I know almost all of you guys focus most intensely on talent. But I don't. I focus entirely on coaching (though I obviously love watching great players). When a team can move from 1-10-1 to 7-5 in a new coach's first year (Lombardi) with the same talent, I think it illustrates the difference coaching makes.

Now, from the beginning, I have defended Thompson and McCarthy from all the nay sayers who were quick to damn them. Not because I believed in them, but because they had to have a chance to see what they could do. I didn't count last year because of Sherman's presence - to me, this is effectively Thompson's first real year, almost as much as it's McCarty's.

Now, I've read a lot of talk (in other forums) about how McCarthy didn't come from a winning tradition. Ok, fair enough. He certainly didn't prove himself as an OC nearly as much as Lombardi did with the Giants. But still, he didn't do all that badly with the Saints (in fact, some things were done very well) and certainly brought out the best in Brooks, just as he had years earlier as QB coach for Gannon. I just ignored SF. Mainly, I just hoped that McCarthy could be a guy who would buck the odds and turn out to be a terrific HC, as long as he had a strong staff (which appears to be the case).

Like I said, I don't mind so much that we lost - when you read that impressive list published by JS Online of all the GB coaches who won their first preseason game as 1st year coaches, Lombardi's name is noticeably absent. But I do feel concern over how the team looked.

Basically, I think under a very good coach, this team is a 9-7 team, which could go 8-8 with a little bad luck or 10-6 with a bit of good luck. Green Bay should never settle for less than a very good HC. Simply being good is not enough. That's half of what I'm looking for in McCarthy. The other half is how the team handles itself in postseason play, whether this year or next year. If this team doesn't go 8-8, minimum, I'll figure McCarthy is not the guy. After that, I won't care what potential he shows - I'll be a hard sell to convince that he should stay.

I'm not worried yet, obviously. Not yet. But another game like last night's and I'll definitely start worrying that I WILL be worrying early in the season. Meanwhile, I'll live in hope that he will turn out to be better than even 'very good' - but I won't hang on to that hope for much longer if the team doesn't show something.

[BallHawk]

When M3 was hired I really though TT fucked up. But now that we've seen what he's done, I believe that he was the best choice. The reason we lost last night was inexperiene. We were actually foolish to thing we could win. M3 is gonna have to get these guys to bust their ass' of if they want to get better. As I said, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WITH THIS TEAM IS HOW QUICK THEY CAN GEL.

[red]

this is a very young, and new to each other, team thats been in camp and working together for all of 2 or 3 weeks

one would hope we see improvement in every preseason game so that we are at least able to compete when the season starts, then you would also hope we improve in every regular season game

last night we looked like a very young team that was trying to learn a whole new system

if the end of the season comes and we still look the way we did last night, then we have problems and something needs to be done. but if by the end of the year we are starting to play like a well oiled machine, then i'd say we're in good shape

lets also not forget that this was a pretty damn good san diego team

[GBRulz]

Well, certainly after one pre-season game is not the time to worry about M3. Give the guy at least the complete season.

right now you have young players, a new coach, new plays.... the only thing that is going to help this team is time and experience playing together. I don't expect us to be a playoff team this year, but in 2007 I think we're gonna make some noise.

Ballhawk - I agree with you...it's all about the team coming together and building that chemistry.

[woodbuck27]

Gals and guys:

It's just one Pre-Season game. Not to worry prematurely.

Yet we do have concerns, of course. We need to assist one another to understand them. This is OUR team as it's fans.

First of all.

I want M3 to have control of the personnel that T2 has supplied him. I hate to think that T2 (as we have to decide) is pulling all the strings. The jury isn't in on that one; but certainly once the season begins I want Mike McCarthy and his Coaching staff to be fully accountable.

I want Ted Thompson ready to only support Mike McCarthy and his people.

He/they coach OUR team and Ted Thompson and the scouting Dept. fixes problems or enables success on the field for Mike McCarthy and Company.

I don't want Ted Thompson meddling in on field matters. Not at all.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH ! !

[MJZiggy]

when you read that impressive list published by JS Online of all the GB coaches who won their first preseason game as 1st year coaches, Lombardi's name is noticeably absent.

Oh yay, there's one more commonality between M3 and Lombardi!!

He'll be fine. I'm sure he's not a happy camper this morning, but I'm also sure that we had half a line of rookies going against what the KEPT calling the best front 7 in the NFL. The kids just need (please God, let this be true) a little time to get their feet under 'em.

[RashanGary]

I'm not as worried about McCarthy as I am about Jagz and that run game. If it doesn't take off, we're in trouble. The guy has 1 or 2 years in the system and now he's supposed to install it as our main run package. I'm a little uneasy there. We'll see though.

[Packnut]

I'm not as worried about McCarthy as I am about Jagz and that run game. If it doesn't take off, we're in trouble. The guy has 1 or 2 years in the system and now he's supposed to install it as our main run package. I'm a little uneasy there. We'll see though.


Our only hope in the run gameis a 100% healthy A. Green

[MadtownPacker]

I wont be worried about M3 until he loses the team like Sherm did. Wasnt pretty last night from what i have read but it is still just the first game. In two weeks if the squad is looking like this then I might worry.

[GBRulz]

I'm not as worried about McCarthy as I am about Jagz and that run game. If it doesn't take off, we're in trouble. The guy has 1 or 2 years in the system and now he's supposed to install it as our main run package. I'm a little uneasy there. We'll see though.


Our only hope in the run gameis a 100% healthy A. Green

and for the o-line to open up some holes... without that, we could have Alexander and it wouldn't make a difference.

[Joemailman]

Does anybody remember hoe bad the Packers looked when Mike Holmgren took over? They started 0-2 that year, including a 31-3 loss to the then-horrible Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Teams with new coaches usually get off to rough starts. This team appears to be no exception.

I've felt from the start that the defense would have to carry the bulk of the load early. Hopefully thay can play well enough to make the Pack respectable until the offense starts to get some of the kinks worked out.

[TPF]

Yeah, the offense defintely needs to get a feel for each other.

[wist43]

I'm not as worried about McCarthy as I am about Jagz and that run game. If it doesn't take off, we're in trouble. The guy has 1 or 2 years in the system and now he's supposed to install it as our main run package. I'm a little uneasy there. We'll see though.

I'm concerned about the entire coaching staff as well as the schemes on both sides of the ball.

They've set themselves up to be a finesse team on both sides of the ball, something I am philosophically opposed to. They were absolutely manhandled last night.

It's one thing to allow for inexperience and unfamiliarity, it's quite another to just be physically overmatched. Everything about this team is of concern.

[woodbuck27]

I'm not as worried about McCarthy as I am about Jagz and that run game. If it doesn't take off, we're in trouble. The guy has 1 or 2 years in the system and now he's supposed to install it as our main run package. I'm a little uneasy there. We'll see though.

I'm concerned about the entire coaching staff as well as the schemes on both sides of the ball.

They've set themselves up to be a finesse team on both sides of the ball, something I am philosophically opposed to. They were absolutely manhandled last night.

It's one thing to allow for inexperience and unfamiliarity, it's quite another to just be physically overmatched. Everything about this team is of concern.

I won't disagree wist43.

It really comes down to what OUR expectations are as fans. For those on this forum that have high hopes i.e, a playoff berth, I feel that you may be disappointed, but I am sure pulling for all of you fans that are there.

Good LUCK, sincerely.

I am trying to be as realistic without pessimism, and too very criticle of OUR GM, HC Mike McCarthy and his staff, and of course who they decide on as OUR 53 Man Roster.

I say it's really a matter of getting through 2006 as cohesively as we can and support the hope, that we will see some improvement as a team and re-tool for next season as Ted Thompson, I TRUST must do. Alot of pressure on Ted Thompson. It can't be easy, and we don't know all the issues. He has a boss, I expect.

When TC is done. I'll have a better idea where we are entering the season. So will we all. This is a good group of Packer fans here. We have to support one another.

Right now, I feel we should still give way to "the fact", this is TC and there are going to be cuts and the team assembled as best as it needs to be.

I have taken a pragmatic stance, because I feel that has to work for me. We have a long ways to go but we'll get there in time. I believe just that.

My advice to you all. Let's not PANIC, at all this season, and that may be a tall order for some here. Let's not judge rather understand through OUR collective efforts here. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH for 2006 and BEYOND !!

[pbmax]

I'm concerned about the entire coaching staff as well as the schemes on both sides of the ball.

They've set themselves up to be a finesse team on both sides of the ball, something I am philosophically opposed to. They were absolutely manhandled last night.
I don't think smaller lineman translates to finesse, not with the emphasis on the run game.

One point someone made earlier about Guards and backs being to quick to move to the second level. While I am not certain about this observation, guards are combo blocking with the center and tackle on many plays and the assignment for moving out to the LB changes depending on the play and the motion of the LB.

That kind of play by play change in technique is going to take time to learn and game experience to perfect.

I am not sold on the finesse charge yet.

[woodbuck27]

I'm concerned about the entire coaching staff as well as the schemes on both sides of the ball.

They've set themselves up to be a finesse team on both sides of the ball, something I am philosophically opposed to. They were absolutely manhandled last night.
I don't think smaller lineman translates to finesse, not with the emphasis on the run game.

One point someone made earlier about Guards and backs being to quick to move to the second level. While I am not certain about this observation, guards are combo blocking with the center and tackle on many plays and the assignment for moving out to the LB changes depending on the play and the motion of the LB.

That kind of play by play change in technique is going to take time to learn and game experience to perfect.

I am not sold on the finesse charge yet.

pbmax:

Did you read the thread O-Line Analysis by gbpackfan? It tells me that the middle of OUR fist string OL (Wels,Colledge and Spitz )didn't play bad.

It was the vets that failed in assignment to give Favre time. I am surprised that Mark Tauscher had an off night and even that seems to be on others (ie Davenport). Even Hendo was off last night.

I'm not getting a read on Chad Clifton's game last night, as yet.

GO PACK !!

[SD GB fan]

its time to worry about McCarthy when the players stop their sloppy play and we still lose to a team of similar talent.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I won't worry much about McCarthy for this season, or at least through the first half of this season.

[Packers4Glory]

I like what I'm seeing from M3 and I like what he has to say about things when asked. How the Packers looked against SD had more to do w/ the O-line trying to run a new scheme for the first time against a live opponent who probably has the best front 7 in football and a defensive look that isn't very common in the 3-4. Probably not the type of team you want to start out w/ when running something brand new and w/ 2 rookies starting.

defense didn't look too bad accpet Carroll who just sucks balls. I hate seeing that assclown on the field.

[woodbuck27]

I'm not as worried about McCarthy as I am about Jagz and that run game. If it doesn't take off, we're in trouble. The guy has 1 or 2 years in the system and now he's supposed to install it as our main run package. I'm a little uneasy there. We'll see though.

I'm with you on that.

[Terry]

its time to worry about McCarthy when the players stop their sloppy play and we still lose to a team of similar talent.

Well, like I said, I'm not worried now. Not yet. However, you make it sound like the players have one job and the HC another. I see sloppy play as the responsibility of the coaches, full stop.

[pbmax]

pbmax:

Did you read the thread O-Line Analysis by gbpackfan? It tells me that the middle of OUR fist string OL (Wels,Colledge and Spitz )didn't play bad.

It was the vets that failed in assignment to give Favre time. I am surprised that Mark Tauscher had an off night and even that seems to be on others (ie Davenport). Even Hendo was off last night.

I'm not getting a read on Chad Clifton's game last night, as yet.

GO PACK !!
I saw it Woodie and it did seem to highlight the players that the coverage of the game in th epeper said blew blitz pickup. I believe it.

For McCarthy, what I am concerned about it the public representations he makes that he doesn't back up.

First, it was Harris will be at the OTAs and then no Harris. It was clearly beyond his control, and he should have stayed silent. (Maybe Al stayed away to INCREASE the chance of a new contract, given the way he played Sat).

Now it was the culture of winning in Thurs and Fridays papers, then failing to prepare to win, even to compete strongly, for almost two quarters.

I get the sense he doesn't know how to deliver on the promises he makes publicly, and doesn't distinguish what he CAN control from what he CAN'T.

If he delivers wins and beats expectations, no one will care. Anything else he is making the job harder.

[woodbuck27]

pbmax:

Did you read the thread O-Line Analysis by gbpackfan? It tells me that the middle of OUR fist string OL (Wels,Colledge and Spitz )didn't play bad.

It was the vets that failed in assignment to give Favre time. I am surprised that Mark Tauscher had an off night and even that seems to be on others (ie Davenport). Even Hendo was off last night.

I'm not getting a read on Chad Clifton's game last night, as yet.

GO PACK !!
I saw it Woodie and it did seem to highlight the players that the coverage of the game in th epeper said blew blitz pickup. I believe it.

For McCarthy, what I am concerned about it the public representations he makes that he doesn't back up.

First, it was Harris will be at the OTAs and then no Harris. It was clearly beyond his control, and he should have stayed silent. (Maybe Al stayed away to INCREASE the chance of a new contract, given the way he played Sat).

Now it was the culture of winning in Thurs and Fridays papers, then failing to prepare to win, even to compete strongly, for almost two quarters.

I get the sense he doesn't know how to deliver on the promises he makes publicly, and doesn't distinguish what he CAN control from what he CAN'T.

If he delivers wins and beats expectations, no one will care. Anything else he is making the job harder.

I'd sum Mike McCarthy up this way.

He's a Rookie Head Coach and hopefully he grows into the job to handle himself as we Trust - Hope he will. He's not expected to not be somewhat naive. :mrgreen:

He has alot of pressure on him too I expect but DAM. We were 4-12 last season and it will take longer than some believe. Too much to fix this season.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH !!

[BooHoo]

It is way to early for me to be overlly concerned about M3. However, he is an unproven commodity. He doesn't have a head coach track record and does not come from a winner system. No other team appeared interested in him last year. So I have a guarded concern.