Read This, Be Smarter: Packer Eagle vs Okie

[pbmax]

New D line alignment which has been mentioned in the Official Training Camp thread. Neal and Raji at ends and Pickett back in the middle.

Its articles like this that cause me to forgive Bob McGinn's constant harping about Thompson's stubborness.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/127402253.html

I highly recommend reading it. Nice background info on what has gone before and what might be coming. Rat favorite Trgovac gets a few mentions as well.

Money quote:

 Okie, in which both ends play a 5-technique head-up over the tackles while the nose tackle is head-up on the center.

 Eagle, in which the end to the strong (tight end) side is head-up on the tackle in a 5-technique, the nose tackle is in a shaded position just off the strong-side shoulder of the center, and the weak-side end is in a 3-technique position on the outside shoulder of the guard.

Last year, on the approximately 25% of the defensive snaps when the Packers were in the 3-4, they played far more Eagle than Okie. Usually, Pickett was the 5-technique on the left side, Raji was the shaded nose tackle and either Cullen Jenkins or Howard Green was the 3-technique on the right side.

In the new setup, the 340-pound Pickett would be back at nose tackle, where he started from 2006-'09 and probably is most effective, and Raji would have more freedom as a one-gap player in the spot previously occupied by Jenkins.

[Lurker64]

It's funny that a defense we play 25% of the time is our "base" defense. And a change to the "base" defense will affect about 60% of those 25% of plays.

I'm pretty sure the decision versus "more Eagle or Okie" is going to come down to whichever one works better in that situation where we play with 3 linemen, which is infrequently.

[vince]

I agree pb. McGinn is the best in the business when it comes to reporting on pure football.

I'm assuming that this switching of sides between Neal and Raji would occur in nickel as well. Neal is looking, feeling and playing well thus far in camp. You bring he and Matthews from the left side and Raji with Walden/Zombo from the right side... Bishop from the inside on occasion..., Woodson from anywhere on the field... I think this defensive front will do pretty well this year.

[Guiness]

Good article for sure. Raji's got a great attitude, he could easily kick up a fuss about moving outside after the season he had in the middle last year, but instead he's looking forward to it.

Unbelievable the number of snaps he played last year.

[Joemailman]

It is easy to see Raji really manhandling some LG's in this alignment. T.J. Lang was talking the other day about the difficulty of blocking Raji.

Every team on the Packers schedule will be looking for ways to force the Packers to play more base defense. If they can do it, we may see this alignment more than one might think. Keep in mind that that 25% number may be unusually low because the Packers had some games where they were forced to play all nickle and dime due to the injuries on the DL.

[Bossman641]

Can someone remind me, what was originally the reason for moving Pickett to end and playing Raji at nose? Didn't they think nose was his more natural position and he wouldn't hold up at end? What has changed since then.

[Upnorth]

BJ switching to DE will cut down on his INT chances.
Seriously, putting BJ and CMIII on the same side to pressure on passing downs will open up A LOT of chances on the other side. Also with pickett picking up NT work, BJ will be a bit fresher for the 2-4-5 downs. I still want better DL depth.

[vince]

BJ switching to DE will cut down on his INT chances.
Seriously, putting BJ and CMIII on the same side to pressure on passing downs will open up A LOT of chances on the other side. Also with pickett picking up NT work, BJ will be a bit fresher for the 2-4-5 downs. I still want better DL depth.
They're looking at putting Raji OPPOSITE Matthews as they did with Jenkins last year, making it more precarious for offenses to slide protection to that one side.

[Lurker64]

BJ switching to DE will cut down on his INT chances.
Seriously, putting BJ and CMIII on the same side to pressure on passing downs will open up A LOT of chances on the other side. Also with pickett picking up NT work, BJ will be a bit fresher for the 2-4-5 downs. I still want better DL depth.

He's not going to be playing DE ever, actually. I'm pretty sure that while he will play the 3-technique (think DT) in eagle personnel, I'm pretty sure they will leave him as the 0-technique in Okie personnel. I would be hard pressed to call a technique numbered less than 5 a "defensive end", even if he is the furthest outside defensive lineman on that side.

But I think this is much ado about nothing. The defense makes hay in nickel and short yardage packages. As long as the "base" can get us in 2nd and 3rd down nickel, or 3rd down short yardage and those packages do their job, we're fine.

[vince]

If I recall, Raji had some trouble as a rookie getting into blockers head up using his hands and moving them to play 2-gap with his shorter arms. Long-armed tackles were keeping him from getting his body into them.

At NT, you can get a better jump off the ball and have an easier time getting to the body of the center and to a lesser extent guards to get a push in the middle and/or get around them.

I think he's made significant strides to the point where they think he may now be more effective negating his shorter arms and being a better 2-gap defender inside and outside. He also can take advantage of his quickness rushing the passer more outside.

At the same time, Pickett is Pickett. He plays the run very well and is difficult to move, but isn't quick enough to get around guys to the quarterback. Pickett is a true NT who's somewhat out of position on the outside.

[pbmax]

Can someone remind me, what was originally the reason for moving Pickett to end and playing Raji at nose? Didn't they think nose was his more natural position and he wouldn't hold up at end? What has changed since then.

In the Packers base base defense, a 3-4 played in Okie techniques (see article), his most natural position is nose tackle. Given that he was a 2nd year player, they wanted him to learn his best fit first. In the article they mention that playing Raji at 5 technique didn't allow him to do much in 09. Pickett was sacrificed last year to help Raji, which is understandable, given his youth and talents.

This year, they are experimenting with him away from nose again, as Lurker mentions, probably a 3 technique in Eagle, opposite Matthews. Basically, he fills the role that Jenkins/Green did.

The only open question is who is nose and who is the other end beside Neal in Okie.

McGinn hints that he expects Pickett to stay in the middle, but isn't exactly clear about Okie.


Raji, who played 85% of the 1,259 defensive snaps in 20 games a year ago, basically lined up alongside Jenkins as 3-technique tackles in the nickel and dime defenses. Given the new version of the Eagle, he might be off the nose for good.

[pbmax]

Put another way, this is how they are going about replacing Jenkins in base. And Neal is tabbed to be the replacement in 2 D lineman nickel and dime packages.

[rbaloha1]

IMO a good move. Raji is probably better in space than Pickett.

Raji and Matthews from the left side with the threat of Woodson from the right side gets me excited!

[Smidgeon]

It is easy to see Raji really manhandling some LG's in this alignment. T.J. Lang was talking the other day about the difficulty of blocking Raji.

Every team on the Packers schedule will be looking for ways to force the Packers to play more base defense. If they can do it, we may see this alignment more than one might think. Keep in mind that that 25% number may be unusually low because the Packers had some games where they were forced to play all nickle and dime due to the passing strengths of the opposing team.

Fixed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

IMO a good move. Raji is probably better in space than Pickett.

Raji and Matthews from the left side with the threat of Woodson from the right side gets me excited!

They are putting Raji on the opposite side of Matthews (like they did with Jenkins last year).

[vince]

I was at camp tonight and noticed that on the very first play of practice, the defense started in nickel with Neal playing on the right side next to Matthews and Raji on the left next to Jones. So it looks like Dom is going this way in both base and nickel.

[Lurker64]

Mike Vandermause tweets (http://twitter.com/#!/MikeVandermause/status/101486452331921408)


Dom Capers said tonight B.J. Raji is his nose tackle. Just as he has done in past, he will move players around in different sub packages.

So I guess this is probably the media making big news out of something that is little news.

[rbaloha1]

They are putting Raji on the opposite side of Matthews (like they did with Jenkins last year).

Interesting. I guess Raji is a good rusher that needs to be lined up against team's usual best linemen.

[pbmax]

Mike Vandermause tweets (http://twitter.com/#!/MikeVandermause/status/101486452331921408)



So I guess this is probably the media making big news out of something that is little news.

So it looks like Raji gets to be nose in base Okie at a minimum, If you can trust Dom not be planting counter-information to the press.

Wonder if Pickett will get snaps off with someone else (Green, Wilson) playing 5 tech opposite Neal?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Makes sense with the move of Pickett to NT.


Howard Green, who played exclusively at defensive end last season, took some snaps at nose tackle with the second-string defense.