Clifton - the NFL's elder statesman LT

[Patler]

Kind of surprising, really:


The Green Bay Packers left tackle has arthritic knees and at age 35 is the NFL’s oldest starter at that demanding position and the third-oldest starting offensive lineman overall, behind only Kansas City’s Casey Wiegmann (37) and Indianapolis’ Jeff Saturday (35), both of whom play center.

From the following article:

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110817/PKR01/110817176/Handled-care-Clifton-delivers-Packers?odyssey=tab|topnews|img|FRONTPAGE (http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110817/PKR01/110817176/Handled-care-Clifton-delivers-Packers?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE)

[bobblehead]

especially considering we all expected his career to be cut short due to all the injuries....that and OL historically play a little older than many positions.

[pbmax]

He used to say he wanted a 10 year career. Apparently, that was a minimum number.

[KYPack]

especially considering we all expected his career to be cut short due to all the injuries....that and OL historically play a little older than many positions.

Cliffy played 9 years after a career ending injury.

[woodbuck27]

Cliffy played 9 years after a career ending injury.

Jhhheeessh. was that NINE years ago? Time sure flys.

I can see it like it was last weekend. I was never so pissed at an opposing player as on that pointless takeout. Especially given where Chad Clifton was in respect to the fella that was returning the ball after the turnover. I was never more proud of OUR HC than how he reacted to that viscious play after the contest ended. I'll always give kudos to Mike Sherman for letting his anger out at games end. I thought he was going to attack Warre Sapp. Good last name for him based on that rotten play.

If I was Mike Sherman I would've gone one step further. I would,ve attacked that senseless clown and forgot the consequences. I would've had to seek vengence there. It's just ' the Irish ' in me. Forget the fact that that was our LT that was blndsided so visciously. I never saw aythin more viscious than that. I felt terrle fpr Chad Clifton.

I would've gone commando over any of my players being blindsided as Chad Clifton was. I never had any good feelings over Warren Sapp after that shity block.

Thinking back. Where was Brett Favre on that play. Favre always was rather feisty. How come he didn't attack Warren Sapp? How could the Packer Players ..all of them let that go without at least wanting a piece of Warren Sapp? Ohh it has to do wit being a PRO !? Screw that.

I never understood that. Noone atacking Sapp. Where I come from it's someone or more more than one down on Sapp's face after that blindside block. Whatever it would take Sapp gets his. I played lots of copetitve sports at the hampionshp level and the fellas I played wit wouldn't havelet that one just slide by. It would've been WAR.

[red]

Cliffy played 9 years after a career ending injury.

i thought for sure that was the end of him too. i still hate sapp for that

[rbaloha1]

Thank goodness for Sherrod.

[Freak Out]

Death to Sapp.

[VermontPackFan]

Jhhheeessh. was that NINE years ago? Time sure flys.

I can see it like it was last weekend. I was never so pissed at an opposing player as on that pointless takeout. Especially given where Chad Clifton was in respect to the fella that was returning the ball after the turnover. I was never more proud of OUR HC than how he reacted to that viscious play after the contest ended. I'll always give kudos to Mike Sherman for letting his anger out at games end. I thought he was going to attack Warre Sapp. Good last name for him based on that rotten play.

If I was Mike Sherman I would've gone one step further. I would,ve attacked that senseless clown and forgot the consequences. I would've had to seek vengence there. It's just ' the Irish ' in me. Forget the fact that that was our LT that was blndsided so visciously. I never saw aythin more viscious than that. I felt terrle fpr Chad Clifton.

I would've gone commando over any of my players being blindsided as Chad Clifton was. I never had any good feelings over Warren Sapp after that shity block.

Thinking back. Where was Brett Favre on that play. Favre always was rather feisty. How come he didn't attack Warren Sapp? How could the Packer Players ..all of them let that go without at least wanting a piece of Warren Sapp? Ohh it has to do wit being a PRO !? Screw that.

I never understood that. Noone atacking Sapp. Where I come from it's someone or more more than one down on Sapp's face after that blindside block. Whatever it would take Sapp gets his. I played lots of copetitve sports at the hampionshp level and the fellas I played wit wouldn't havelet that one just slide by. It would've been WAR.

Its a good thing Sherman didnt do anything we would still be looking for pieces of him. Come on, I was pissed that Clifton got hurt on a tough hit but thats just hard nosed football. Clifton wasnt looking and got his clock cleaned, if it wasnt for him landing on his hip in an awkward way, no one would have ever talked about it.

[Brando19]

I've tried to find the Sapp hit on Clifton, but can't. Anyone have a link?

[sharpe1027]

Its a good thing Sherman didnt do anything we would still be looking for pieces of him. Come on, I was pissed that Clifton got hurt on a tough hit but thats just hard nosed football. Clifton wasnt looking and got his clock cleaned, if it wasnt for him landing on his hip in an awkward way, no one would have ever talked about it.

You can debate about how bad the hit was, but I don't agree that it was "just" hard nosed football. Clifton was not involved in the play, and Sapp had no good football reason to make that block. To add to it, Sapp celebrated the hit while Clifton was motionless on the ground.

Just because someone hits hard, that doesn't make it "just" hard nosed football.

[sharpe1027]

http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1465999.html

Clifton lost feeling in his extremities for a short period and, while he was on the ground, Sapp was shown on the in-stadium video screens celebrating. It was apparently that celebration which most bothered Sherman and some of the Green Bay players. Clifton was able to move his arms and legs as he left the field.

Sapp did not deny that he hunted Clifton out on the play.

"Yeah, I was a heat-seeking missile," Sapp said. "Boom. Boom. Boom. And I hit him."

[RashanGary]

For me, he's probably the Packer I've underappreciated the most. I knew he was a damn good LT, always knew it, but what he's done has been right up there with the best OL in Packer history. In the new pass first NFL, Clifton was one of the best pass protector for over a decade.

Clifton has been quiet on the field with his steady play and quiet off the field with his introverted demeanor. Outside of his couple probowls, the Sapp injury and the recent, "OMG our LT is old and we don't have a new one" dillema, he's been a distant thought. Really, he's been one of the best Packer OL ever.

When an OL comes in with a big name and has a big career, everyone honks and hollers about it. A guy like Clifton, he pretty much went under the radar. Oh well, we know what he did and so do his teammates and coaches.

[KYPack]

That link didn't work for me.

Well, don't everybody get a case of the ass about this clip.

You have to watch some other stuff, but it's on here after about 90 seconds or so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgdlqNtbBAA

I hated Sapp doing that one, but it's snap to whistle and keep your head on a swivel. When you don't, well ya know?

[sharpe1027]

That link didn't work for me.



Sorry, the link was to the article I quoted, not the video of the hit.

[MJZiggy]

Cliffy played 9 years after a career ending injury.

That's damned impressive, and yes, I too still hate Sapp for it. There was no good reason to take that shot. Just because you can is not a good reason and celebrating it just makes it that much worse.

[Pugger]

What I found disturbing is Sapp didn't seem to give a shit that he might have shortened another player's career for a legal but entirely unnecessary hit well away from the play. He never even bothered to inquire about Cliffy after the fact either. To me Sapp is nothing but a thug and I turn off the NFL Network when that creep is polluting the air waves.

[smuggler]

It was a legal hit, but it was very very dirty, and tarnished Sapp's career. He shouldn't have done it.

[RashanGary]

It was a legal hit, but it was very very dirty, and tarnished Sapp's career. He shouldn't have done it.

Nah. He had no idea Clifton would have his hip destroyed. Sherman was emotional about it. He cared about his guys, especially the OL guys he worked with. Sapp made a legal, big time block. Football is about being physical. Sapp saw they had the ball and started sniffing out the first block he could lay. Clifton was running to the ball. Sapp knocked him to the ground. Good play. Sapp loved football. He played it the right way, whistle to whistle. And the OL guys are taught to play to the end, seek and destroy until the whistle blows. I've seen many OL just clock a guy standing at the end of a pile. I'm sure Clifton himself has done it. I wish we had more guys like that.

[sharpe1027]

First, pushing a guy off the pile is not the same situation. To begin with, the guy at the end of the pile is at least near the ball and part of the play. Also, two wrongs don't make a right. If a play you are talking about is close to what Sapp did, then it was wrong.

Second, he was celebrating while Clifton was lying motionless on the ground.

Third, I have never seen Clifton "just clock a guy standing at the end of a pile."

[Guiness]

The celebrating was definitely part of it.

He made a legal hit away from the play. Yes, it was a nasty hit, but if Clifton hadn't been hurt so badly we wouldn't still be talking about it.

The problem was that he danced around like an idiot celebrating after he cold cocked a guy - showing what kind of a person he really was.

We've all seen guys laid out that badly other times, why is it that this one sticks in our minds? The hit on Robert Ferguson comes to mind, and in the eyes of the NFL was much more onerous.

[Pugger]

I don't recall Cliffy standing at the end of the pile. If I remember correctly Chad was jogging towards the ball carrier on the opposite side of the field where the action was and Sapp saw an opportunity to blast Clifton - probably because he had been beaten by Chad all game long. There was no way in hell Cliffy was going to be involved in the play. I haven't seen a cheap shot like that since Charles Martin back in the day...

[Patler]

A play does not have to be illegal or warrant a penalty to be dirty (or "cheap" if you prefer that term). As a long time NFL defenseman once told me, he was faced many times each season with situations in which he could have taken out an unsuspecting or unprotected opponent. While it often happens in the heat of a play, he said that far more often players hold up and protect each other, because careers are on the line and they rely on each other. We see and remember the bad ones, because they are infrequent due to discretion of the players, not lack of opportunity.

With that in mind, I have no problem calling Sapp's play dirty and cheap.

[smuggler]

Ferguson was a ball-carrier when Darius laid him out. The reason why the penalty was so steep to Darius, was because of the area of Ferguson's body that he struck was his neck.

I'm not sure that what Darius did was necessarily sinister, but more sloppy. He was out of position, and he did what he had to do to keep Ferguson from exposing him and making a big play. The penalty was (probably) worth it. It affected what was happening on the field.

I don't know if Sapp wanted to hurt Clifton, but a blindside block like that sure is a good way to injure someone. It's undeniably dirty. No matter which way you look at it, it's dirty. It's dirty. Yep, still dirty. Dirty. Unecessary; It availed the Buccaneers nothing, other than the fact that it put our starting left tackle on the sideline for the rest of the season. There was no football reason to do it.

That's what a lot of people remember about Sapp, he made a dirty block one time. Too bad, so sad. At least he isn't as stupid as Jaime Dukes.


I wish we had more guys like that.

Thankfully, your wish will go unanswered.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It was a dirty hit, plain and simple. It was halfway across the field and there's no way Clifton was going to be involved in the play. Imagine a long kickoff return where a return man is about to cross the goal line, and 30-40 yards behind the play a blocker on the return team blindsides a player on the coverage team. Same difference? Would it technically be a penalty? No, but it's dirty. Plenty of guys have had the opportunity to make one of those hits, and Sapp was one of the few who actually went over the line and did it--threatening another player's career.

[Yoop]

:lol:
A play does not have to be illegal or warrant a penalty to be dirty (or "cheap" if you prefer that term). As a long time NFL defenseman once told me, he was faced many times each season with situations in which he could have taken out an unsuspecting or unprotected opponent. While it often happens in the heat of a play, he said that far more often players hold up and protect each other, because careers are on the line and they rely on each other. We see and remember the bad ones, because they are infrequent due to discretion of the players, not lack of opportunity.

With that in mind, I have no problem calling Sapp's play dirty and cheap.

I agree, Sapp was out to make a name for himself, Clifton had held him in check all day and he had a score to settle, he went head hunting for for Cliffy had a head of steam and blind sided him, really a cheap shot, and his attitude afterward spoke volumes about the charecter of Warren Sapp, the bad part now is he didn't disapear, we now get to listen to the clown at NFL net. the graveyard for wanna b sports announcers.

Pugger, I thought that hit by Martin was less vicious, Charles was on our side:lol:

[Pugger]

Yoop, that hit was just as dirty. Even tho I have no love for McMahon he never was the same QB after that. To me Martin was as big a thug as Sapp. Whatever happened to that clown anyway?

[Patler]

Yoop, that hit was just as dirty. Even tho I have no love for McMahon he never was the same QB after that. To me Martin was as big a thug as Sapp. Whatever happened to that clown anyway?

He died a few years ago. (Martin that is)

[Cheesehead Craig]

For me, he's probably the Packer I've underappreciated the most. I knew he was a damn good LT, always knew it, but what he's done has been right up there with the best OL in Packer history. In the new pass first NFL, Clifton was one of the best pass protector for over a decade.

Clifton has been quiet on the field with his steady play and quiet off the field with his introverted demeanor. Outside of his couple probowls, the Sapp injury and the recent, "OMG our LT is old and we don't have a new one" dillema, he's been a distant thought. Really, he's been one of the best Packer OL ever.

When an OL comes in with a big name and has a big career, everyone honks and hollers about it. A guy like Clifton, he pretty much went under the radar. Oh well, we know what he did and so do his teammates and coaches.

Same thinking here. He's underappreciated and hopefully after he retires he'll be in the Packer HOF, he's earned it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Same thinking here. He's underappreciated and hopefully after he retires he'll be in the Packer HOF, he's earned it.

Hopefully? There's a 100% chance he will. I'd bet that nobody that has made multiple Pro Bowls is not in the Packer HofF. Of those that haven't retired in recent years, of course. :)

[VermontPackFan]

A play does not have to be illegal or warrant a penalty to be dirty (or "cheap" if you prefer that term). As a long time NFL defenseman once told me, he was faced many times each season with situations in which he could have taken out an unsuspecting or unprotected opponent. While it often happens in the heat of a play, he said that far more often players hold up and protect each other, because careers are on the line and they rely on each other. We see and remember the bad ones, because they are infrequent due to discretion of the players, not lack of opportunity.

With that in mind, I have no problem calling Sapp's play dirty and cheap.

Disagree, it was a legal hard nosed aggressive play. The only reason the play was even mentioned on TV and the news after the game was because Clifton was seriously hurt by falling on his hip. Remember, he didnt get a hurt from the hit, he got hurt from the fall. Sapp didnt break his jaw, nose or give him a concussion. He hit him shoulder to shoulder. Those types of plays happen multiple times in every game. We only think it was dirty because it seriously hurt one of our favorite players. Sapp only celebrated because he got an awesome hit on the OT he had been doing battle with all game. I am 100% positive he would not have celebrated the way he did if he knew Clifton was seriously injured.

[VermontPackFan]

Yoop, that hit was just as dirty. Even tho I have no love for McMahon he never was the same QB after that. To me Martin was as big a thug as Sapp. Whatever happened to that clown anyway?

Now that was a dirty play...no question about it.

[VermontPackFan]

Plenty of guys have had the opportunity to make one of those hits, and Sapp was one of the few who actually went over the line and did it--threatening another player's career.

And plenty of guys take shot like that every game...think Hines Ward. The Sapp-Clifton hit was only talked about so much because of the serious injury to Clifton's hip. Sapp didnt do it to intentionally threaten Clifton's career, he did because he was getting his ass wupped by Clifton all game, was frustrated and because he could...

[sharpe1027]

Disagree, it was a legal hard nosed aggressive play. The only reason the play was even mentioned on TV and the news after the game was because Clifton was seriously hurt by falling on his hip. Remember, he didnt get a hurt from the hit, he got hurt from the fall. Sapp didnt break his jaw, nose or give him a concussion. He hit him shoulder to shoulder. Those types of plays happen multiple times in every game. We only think it was dirty because it seriously hurt one of our favorite players. Sapp only celebrated because he got an awesome hit on the OT he had been doing battle with all game. I am 100% positive he would not have celebrated the way he did if he knew Clifton was seriously injured.

That type of hit carries a high risk of injury. Given that there was no football reason to make the play, what reason was there for the hit? He wasn't doing it to help the play, the only thing that makes sense to me he was that doing it to hurt Clifton. He wasn't thinking of a career threatening injury, but he was certainly trying to cause him pain for no reason related to the sport/play. I would call that a pussy move in any sport.

As for you "certainty" that he would not have celebrated, I disagree. He knew Clifton was injured shortly after the play and yet he gave interviews where it was clear that he was still celebrating how great a hit it was. He still gloats about it to this day. He is trash.

[sharpe1027]

And plenty of guys take shot like that every game...think Hines Ward.

Not when they are jogging no where near the play and with no chance of ever being in the play.

[swede]

That type of hit carries a high risk of injury. Given that there was no football reason to make the play, what reason was there for the hit? He wasn't doing it to help the play, the only thing that makes sense to me he was that doing it to hurt Clifton. He wasn't thinking of a career threatening injury, but he was certainly trying to cause him pain for no reason related to the sport/play. I would call that a pussy move in any sport.

As for you "certainty" that he would not have celebrated, I disagree. He knew Clifton was injured shortly after the play and yet he gave interviews where it was clear that he was still celebrating how great a hit it was. He still gloats about it to this day. He is trash.

+1

As for the notion he was hurt by the "fall"...? Gimme a break. Sapp separated Clifton's spine from his pelvis and enjoys talking about it yet.

Trash.

[VermontPackFan]

+1

As for the notion he was hurt by the "fall"...? Gimme a break. Sapp separated Clifton's spine from his pelvis and enjoys talking about it yet.

Trash.

His pelvis and his spine were fine, he injured his hip when he fell

[VermontPackFan]

Not when they are jogging no where near the play and with no chance of ever being in the play.

Have you ever heard the phrase " you have to keep your head on a swivel?" The reason a phrase like that even exists is because players get blindsided every game.

[VermontPackFan]

Given that there was no football reason to make the play, what reason was there for the hit?

He did it to knock the snot out of Clifton, possibly a payback for getting manhandled by the Packers OL.

[bobblehead]

:lol:

I agree, Sapp was out to make a name for himself, Clifton had held him in check all day and he had a score to settle, he went head hunting for for Cliffy had a head of steam and blind sided him, really a cheap shot, and his attitude afterward spoke volumes about the charecter of Warren Sapp, the bad part now is he didn't disapear, we now get to listen to the clown at NFL net. the graveyard for wanna b sports announcers.

Pugger, I thought that hit by Martin was less vicious, Charles was on our side:lol:

The attitude afterwards was my problem. When you are on the football field you better be looking to hit someone....because I damn sure garauntee someone is looking to hit you. After the game, when you realize you got carried away you should apologize, send flowers and be decent. Warren wasn't. Was the hit dirty? No. Cheap? Yes.

[cheesner]

Disagree, it was a legal hard nosed aggressive play. The only reason the play was even mentioned on TV and the news after the game was because Clifton was seriously hurt by falling on his hip. Remember, he didnt get a hurt from the hit, he got hurt from the fall. Sapp didnt break his jaw, nose or give him a concussion. He hit him shoulder to shoulder. Those types of plays happen multiple times in every game. We only think it was dirty because it seriously hurt one of our favorite players. Sapp only celebrated because he got an awesome hit on the OT he had been doing battle with all game. I am 100% positive he would not have celebrated the way he did if he knew Clifton was seriously injured.

Bullshit. Sapp was still laughing his ass off on the sideline while Packer medical staff had surrounded Cliffy and Cliffy wasn't moving. Fuck him.

[bobblehead]

Disagree, it was a legal hard nosed aggressive play. The only reason the play was even mentioned on TV and the news after the game was because Clifton was seriously hurt by falling on his hip. Remember, he didnt get a hurt from the hit, he got hurt from the fall. Sapp didnt break his jaw, nose or give him a concussion. He hit him shoulder to shoulder. Those types of plays happen multiple times in every game. We only think it was dirty because it seriously hurt one of our favorite players. Sapp only celebrated because he got an awesome hit on the OT he had been doing battle with all game. I am 100% positive he would not have celebrated the way he did if he knew Clifton was seriously injured.

You are partially wrong. He was hurt on the hit. Sapp hit him at an angle and twisted cliffys body against the lower body causing the pelvis injury. He launched himself at a player that wasn't looking for contact or to be involved in the play. It was legal. It was cheap. It wasn't dirty, as dirty implies against the rules.

You are fully wrong about him celebrating after he knew the extent of the injury. He sat right there on ESPN being a cocksucker AFTER the game when we all knew cliffy was hurt pretty bad. He didn't say sorry. Didn't express concern for the man. He is a cocksucker who made a legal hit that was in fact 100% cheap due to the fact that clifton had no intention of being involved in the play.

[bobblehead]

His pelvis and his spine were fine, he injured his hip when he fell

Wrong again, it was classified as a pelvic twist.

[Patler]

Paul Zimmerman didn't think it was just hardnosed football:


Sapp will be eligible for the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2012, and there will be some, like Sports Illustrated's Paul Zimmerman, who will likely take into account the hit on Clifton when contemplating Sapp's credentials. As Zimmerman wrote in SI shortly after the play, of which the NFL called legal and never handed out a fine, "Sapp was just getting a free one on a guy who wasn't expecting it. He was crippling the dummy. It was a mean, nasty hit that might have ended a person's career and given him a lifelong souvenir of pain. I always knew Sapp was a phony, but I underestimated his vicious streak."


While a "legal" hit at the time, it very likely would not be now. From the NFL website:


In many ways, the 2002 on-field collision between Warren Sapp and Clifton was just like a car wreck. Two 300-pound athletes -- one coming full steam with both feet off the ground, the other in a light jog with no idea what was to come -- colliding. And while Sapp came away from the wreckage unscathed, his devastating blindside hit during an interception return -- one that made headlines and eventually led to an NFL rules change -- violently drove Clifton to the turf, where the Packers offensive tackle lay motionless for several minutes in excruciating pain.
...
Three years after the incident, league owners, under the recommendation of the NFL Competition Committee, broadened the interpretation of the unnecessary roughness rule, emphasizing the word "unnecessary" and making illegal similar hits on plays away from the action on the field.

[Patler]

His pelvis and his spine were fine, he injured his hip when he fell


Wrong again, it was classified as a pelvic twist.

Yup, Bobblehead has it right. It was described once as a wrenching action of the upper body while the lower body stayed still, which tore and strained everything that that connected the pelvis bones together and to his upper body.

From an article on the injury:

Fortunately, the injury never involved Clifton's hip joints. The brunt of the damage took place where the two bones of the pelvis join, called the pubic symphysis, a massive ligament that keeps the bones together. Clifton had suffered a three-centimeter tear of the symphysis. From a joint standpoint, nothing had been displaced.

[sharpe1027]

Have you ever heard the phrase " you have to keep your head on a swivel?" The reason a phrase like that even exists is because players get blindsided every game.

Exactly what happens every game? A slow-lineman completely out of the play and not making any real effort to get into the play gets blindsided by an opposing player when the hit that has nothing to do with trying to keep the player from getting into the play? That happens every game? I don't agree. IMO, it was a cowardly move and there is no place for that in any sport. Hiding behind the official rule book and blaming Clifton for "not having his head on a swivel" doesn't change anything in my opinion.

I would think that most people that coach or play sports would agree that hiding behind the absence of an express rule is complete BS. I would hope that anyone that is involved with sports at any level would make it abundantly clear that a play like that is wrong. If a teammate of mine did something like that and wasn't the least bit sorry, I would call them trash too.

I think that's about all I can say on the subject. If you still don't agree, I can't change your mind.

[mraynrand]

I would hope that anyone that is involved with sports at any level would make it abundantly clear that a play like that is wrong.

Hear, Hear!

"What you did was wrong!" (Note that Ol'e Shermy DIDN't say "What you did was against the rules.")
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0306/nfl_a_sapp_sherman_300.jpg

Sapp used some "More colorful metaphors." (Note to Brandon494: the use of the word 'colorful' is not racist)

[Brandon494]

No offense to Clifton but you have to keep your head on a swivel in football. I know Clifton got hurt from the play but its not like Sapp tried to take out his knees or anything.

[mraynrand]

but its not like Sapp tried to take out his knees or anything.

Yeah, actually, Sapp did. He tried to take out everything. He hit Clifton with everything he had. It was a total cheap shot, from a guy who was getting beat.

[VermontPackFan]

Yup, Bobblehead has it right. It was described once as a wrenching action of the upper body while the lower body stayed still, which tore and strained everything that that connected the pelvis bones together and to his upper body.

From an article on the injury:

Duly noted...
Come on people, it was a tough hit. Agreed today it would have been penalized with a possible suspension, but at the time that is exactly how the game was played. Unfortunately it happened against one of our own, Chad Clifton who has been one of the team MVP's for a few years.
As for Saap, he is a HOF DT who waged war with Green Bay twice per year for like 10 years? During the 90's, the Tampa v. Green Bay rivalry was the best in the old NFC Central, irregardless of how long we have played Chicago & Minnesota. One cheap shot (in many of your oppinions) should not tarnish the fact that this guy was a warrior.

[VermontPackFan]

I think that's about all I can say on the subject. If you still don't agree, I can't change your mind.

Good points...but I respectfully agree to disagree.

[KYPack]

Well that's about as far as we'll get with the dirty hit/ tough shit argument.

I was thinking about a different angle on this thing. The coaches/staff really took care of Cliffy and did a great job of extending his career. The Packers are really first class in that area. Should more players be given the "cotton ball" treatment to extend their careers? I'd think there are other players that would get a year or two more out of the tank if the practice load was greatly reduced. Should that philosophy be extended to all the injured and older players?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

No offense to Clifton but you have to keep your head on a swivel in football. I know Clifton got hurt from the play but its not like Sapp tried to take out his knees or anything.

The hit was cheap, no way around it. You can take a player out like that every game if you are out there head hunting.