Supplemental Draft - 8-29-2011

[Ballboy]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/18/terrelle-pryor-will-be-in-mondays-supplemental-draft/


Anybody know anything about these players? Once I started to think about it, why hasnt TT been real active in these? Is the fact that these are usually "lower" character players?

[Upnorth]

It is not exclusively for problem children, but does have a lot higher portion than the normal draft. More importantly are there any dline worth a0 hoot in here?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I see Tyrone Pryor is eligible. Good! Should have been a no-brainer. The NFL should not be preventing anyone from working because they were naughty in college.

[Smidgeon]

I see Tyrone Pryor is eligible. Good! Should have been a no-brainer. The NFL should not be preventing anyone from working because they were naughty in college.

He's eligible now that he has an immediate 5 game suspension...

[Brandon494]

Goodell would pull some shit like this.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He's eligible now that he has an immediate 5 game suspension...

Huh!? I don't get it. Why is the NFL acting as the tattoo police for the corrupt NCAA?

[Smidgeon]

Huh!? I don't get it. Why is the NFL acting as the tattoo police for the corrupt NCAA?

No idea and I don't know any details. Just that the NFLPA agreed to it and that the suspension won't be appealed.

[3irty1]

The rush end from UNC might be worth a look. I'm only basing this on the fact that he played behind two first rounders. I guess he only got busted for $110 worth of crap. Doesn't seem like that big of a char risk.

[pittstang5]

Uh....Supplemental Draft is scheduled for next Monday - Aug. 22 not Aug. 29.

[Lurker64]

Huh!? I don't get it. Why is the NFL acting as the tattoo police for the corrupt NCAA?

The NFL very much both wants a) the NCAA to be friendly and b) the NCAA to exist in perpetuity, since the alternative is the NFL having to run their own farm system, which they very much would like to avoid.

[pbmax]

Incredible how in bed they are together. And the NFLPA wants to arrangement to continue so a developmental league doesn't siphon off resources.

I am sure its more complicated than I am currently expecting it to be, but with a limited anti-trust exemption, someone is going to challenge this farce and win.

Or someone will start a league that draws players away from college for an actual paycheck for work. Not a scholarship that many do not want.

[Lurker64]

I am sure its more complicated than I am currently expecting it to be, but with a limited anti-trust exemption, someone is going to challenge this farce and win.

Or someone will start a league that draws players away from college for an actual paycheck for work. Not a scholarship that many do not want.

The only anti-trust exemption that the NFL has is the ability to package the broadcast rights of it's games and sell them collectively (so that if you want to show Pats-Colts, you also have to pay for Raiders-Broncos twice a year). But the issue here is that a collective bargaining agreement shields you from most anti-trust allegations (c.f. Clarett v. NFL). The relevant language that shields the NFL here is in Article 8.6 of the Bylaws:


The Commissioner is authorized . . . to take appropriate steps as he deems necessary and proper in the best interests of the league . . . whenever any party or organization not a member of, employed by, or connected with the league or any member thereof is guilty of any conduct detrimental either to the league, its member clubs or employees, or to professional football.

So basically "the commissioner can do anything he wants" is in the CBA, so the battle to challenge it will be a hairy one.

As for starting a new league, that's entirely possible but you would need to have extremely deep pockets if you wanted to adopt a competitive position against the NFL and/or NCAA. Once you get past the huge startup costs of renting arenas and luring away players from other leagues, you will still find yourself in a position where the NFL and NCAA can sue you into submission with frivolous lawsuits if they find you threatening. Pretty much any startup league in this country has to kowtow to its betters, or it doesn't stand a chance (the UFL's only chance appears to be "getting the NFL to buy it" at this point.)

[pbmax]

The only anti-trust exemption that the NFL has is the ability to package the broadcast rights of it's games and sell them collectively (so that if you want to show Pats-Colts, you also have to pay for Raiders-Broncos twice a year). But the issue here is that a collective bargaining agreement shields you from most anti-trust allegations (c.f. Clarett v. NFL). The relevant language that shields the NFL here is in Article 8.6 of the Bylaws:



So basically "the commissioner can do anything he wants" is in the CBA, so the battle to challenge it will be a hairy one.

As for starting a new league, that's entirely possible but you would need to have extremely deep pockets if you wanted to adopt a competitive position against the NFL and/or NCAA. Once you get past the huge startup costs of renting arenas and luring away players from other leagues, you will still find yourself in a position where the NFL and NCAA can sue you into submission with frivolous lawsuits if they find you threatening. Pretty much any startup league in this country has to kowtow to its betters, or it doesn't stand a chance (the UFL's only chance appears to be "getting the NFL to buy it" at this point.)

Yes, but as the college students are not yet members of the Union, I think the case could have a chance. That was one concern of the owners during the lockout after decertification, that college players would launch an attack on the draft and then it would be a game of chicken to secure a CBA before that case wound its way through the courts.

Ultimately, it could come down to whether or not a minimum age (above the age of majority) for work is an item that is proper for collective bargaining.

[pbmax]

I think the UFL could do it, not compete directly with either the NCAA or the NFL, and pay the high school graduates a pittance compared to college budgets.

[Lurker64]

Yes, but as the college students are not yet members of the Union, I think the case could have a chance. That was one concern of the owners during the lockout after decertification, that college players would launch an attack on the draft and then it would be a game of chicken to secure a CBA before that case wound its way through the courts.

Ultimately, it could come down to whether or not a minimum age (above the age of majority) for work is an item that is proper for collective bargaining.

The problem is that labor law is generally written in such a way that management and labor can bind those parties who are prospective employees, but are not yet employed. If you were to make it so that the NFL and the NFLPA can't collectively make rules regarding prospective employees and the conditions of their employment, you would generally gut labor law in this country, so that's not going to happen.

The NFL was only concerned about the lawsuit from college players while the NFLPA was decertified and the NFL was not operating under the protection of a CBA. With a CBA in place, those lawsuits go nowhere. The precedent of Clarett v. NFL is pretty clear, for grievances about the NFL's treatment of prospective employees, that's not anti-trust law that's labor-law.

[Fritz]

If I remember correctly, Mike Wahle was a supplemental draft pick. Wolf gave up a second rounder for him. I think the Pack also drafted another academy guy - Ronnie McAda? - in the supplemental draft. I think. But I don't think TT has participated in this at all.

[Lurker64]

But I don't think TT has participated in this at all.

We don't know whether he's bid for a player in the supplemental draft, but he's certainly never been awarded one. It's entirely possible that he's bid on guys and just been outbid or the other teams had a higher priority according to the lottery.

[pbmax]

The problem is that labor law is generally written in such a way that management and labor can bind those parties who are prospective employees, but are not yet employed. If you were to make it so that the NFL and the NFLPA can't collectively make rules regarding prospective employees and the conditions of their employment, you would generally gut labor law in this country, so that's not going to happen.

The NFL was only concerned about the lawsuit from college players while the NFLPA was decertified and the NFL was not operating under the protection of a CBA. With a CBA in place, those lawsuits go nowhere. The precedent of Clarett v. NFL is pretty clear, for grievances about the NFL's treatment of prospective employees, that's not anti-trust law that's labor-law.

I don't think finding that a minimum age above 18 should not be subject to collective bargaining would require the gutting of collective bargaining, but I could be wrong.

I think the weakness of the case is physical development. 18 year olds are far different than 21 year olds. However, with access to full time, year round professional conditioning, I think the pro 18 yo will outpace his college counterpart.

[Lurker64]

I don't think finding that a minimum age above 18 should not be subject to collective bargaining would require the gutting of collective bargaining, but I could be wrong.

The "The NFL can't impose age or 'years out of high school'" case was already tried, and the NFL won. If someone wants to challenge the NFL here, they need to find something else to sue them about. An identical case will just have the NFL banging the table about Clarett v. NFL and how this was already decided.

[pbmax]

The "The NFL can't impose age or 'years out of high school'" case was already tried, and the NFL won. If someone wants to challenge the NFL here, they need to find something else to sue them about. An identical case will just have the NFL banging the table about Clarett v. NFL and how this was already decided.

Would not be the first case to have a different outcome the second or third time around. There is money to be had there, I would not be surprised if someone else attempted it.

Didn't the players win the first round in that case then lost in Appellate Courts? I seem to remember everyone hand-wringing over the end of 3 years out of high school.

[Lurker64]

Would not be the first case to have a different outcome the second or third time around. There is money to be had there, I would not be surprised if someone else attempted it.

Yes, they lost in the district but won on the appellate level. Considering that the person who wrote the final decision for Clarett v. NFL in the first place is on the Supreme Court now (Justice Sotomayor), odds are good that the NFL will keep winning this case for the foreseeable future.

[Guiness]

Terrelle Pryor was the only player selected in the supplemental draft, the other 5 or 6 that were in it were not selected.

Oakland took him with a 3rd rounder. I wonder if anyone else bid anywhere near that?

Results of his Wonderlific score just came out, and it looks like he got a 7(!) the first time around!!! Scored in the 20's the second time, so hard to figure out what happened.

[hoosier]

Results of his Wonderlific score just came out, and it looks like he got a 7(!) the first time around!!! Scored in the 20's the second time, so hard to figure out what happened.

He probably got some extra tuturing at THE ohio state university.

[smuggler]

He probably just Christmas tree'd it the first time around and then his agent made him take it seriously the second time.

[Joemailman]

The first time he had Vince Young tutoring him.

[pbmax]

McGinn Tweeted that the score of 7 helped explain his bad decisions on and off the field. Not sure if someone then asked if they also explained explain Marino (13) and Leaf and J Russell (20 something).

[Guiness]

Ya, a comment like that was an asshole move, and more than a little condescending. Not to mention the obvious, not necessarily applicable.

The Wonderlific is about quick thinking - being able to come up with the right answer without going into a lot of analysis. It tells nothing about personality and lifestyle!

Genius's can be pricks and serial killers, dim people can be charismatic, and have strong morals.

[smuggler]

Yeah McGinn was off-base on that one.

[mraynrand]

From this thread I learned that Bob McGinn is a serial killer

[Guiness]

From this thread I learned that Bob McGinn is a serial killer

Really? Maybe he's dim....

[pbmax]

McGinn has a new blog post up about the details of the test and his retake (scored 21). Sounds like McGinn has it stone cold and that teams often discount 2nd tests that are significantly higher or they take the average.

One thing I did not know is that college players (seniors anyway) take the Wonderlic well before the combine and that score is often lower, as the players do not have an agent or any specific instruction on how to succeed on the test. After their season, as they prepare for the Combine and Pro Days, their scores increase on the 2nd try at the Combine.