Could the Seahawks be a trade partner? [Archive]

Brando19

08-30-2011, 08:12 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/30/seahawks-tight-end-john-carlson-will-miss-the-season/

The Seahawks have lost starting Te John Carlson for the season. That got me thinking...could they be a trade partner for the Packers? I think Quarless or Crabtree could be appealing to that team. Maybe they'd be willing to part ways with an O lineman or even a draft pick.

Joemailman

08-30-2011, 08:27 PM

They signed Zach Miller in free agency, so they have their starter. I could see TT dealing Crabtree.

Guiness

08-30-2011, 08:34 PM

Was Carlson or Miller considered the starter?

If TT could trade Crabtree for a pick, even a later round one, that would be a job well done. Crabtree was a UDFA signed to the practice squad. With the numbers and tough choices we have at TE, I'm sure the Pack would be happy to unload anyone other than Finley for a reasonable price.

Brando19

08-30-2011, 10:23 PM

I thought Carlson was the starter and Miller was the backup, but I could be wrong. Either way, they could use a TE to fill his spot. We have a few to spare and TT has friends in that organization.

Bretsky

08-30-2011, 10:27 PM

Miller is the better TE there but Carlson is no slouch. They were going to use a lot of two TE formations since both are solid WR's. I doubt Crabtree would be of much interest to them.
Quarless....perhaps....

CaptainKickass

08-31-2011, 01:58 AM

Yes. The Seahawks "could" be a trade partner.

BlueBrewer

08-31-2011, 06:00 AM

Send Flynn and Quarless for 2012 1st rd, done and done!!

MJZiggy

08-31-2011, 06:27 AM

Send Flynn and Quarless for 2012 1st rd, done and done!!
And if Rodgers has another concussion, you're putting Raji in at quarterback or what?

Brandon494

08-31-2011, 06:38 AM

You guys crack me up with these trade proposals, shit wouldn't even pass on Madden. BTW Zach Miller is one of the top TEs in the game and clearly the starter in Seattle.

Brandon494

08-31-2011, 06:39 AM

Also what has Crabtree shown to even warrant a draft pick? The dude is going to get cut, teams arent going to waste a pick on him.

SkinBasket

08-31-2011, 08:09 AM

Also what has Crabtree shown to even warrant a draft pick? The dude is going to get cut, teams arent going to waste a pick on him.

Racist.

He played on the super bowl winning team last season for one thing.

Brandon494

08-31-2011, 08:10 AM

I've missed you!

SkinBasket

08-31-2011, 08:13 AM

I knew you would be all up on my balls as soon as I posted. How do they taste?

BlueBrewer

08-31-2011, 08:18 AM

And if Rodgers has another concussion, you're putting Raji in at quarterback or what?

I would rather get something of value for Flynn and take a chance having Harrell backup than only hope for a compensatory pick later.

Brandon494

08-31-2011, 08:33 AM

Zool

08-31-2011, 09:02 AM

Yea Harrell has looked really good against 3rd stringers, I say just make him our starter.

Also I'm still pissed we waived Swain instead of trading him for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick. I mean he's worth that right? He played on a super bowl winning team last year.

Harrell looked like shit against the 3rd stringers.

Word out of Seattle was Carlson and Miller were to get equal time. Carlson is the better blocker and Miller the better receiver.

imscott72

08-31-2011, 09:50 AM

I would rather get something of value for Flynn and take a chance having Harrell backup than only hope for a compensatory pick later.

Can't agree. Given Rodgers concussion history, we need to keep Flynn.

hoosier

08-31-2011, 10:08 AM

I've missed you!

I knew you would be all up on my balls as soon as I posted. How do they taste?

Get a room.

Joemailman

08-31-2011, 10:56 AM

Also what has Crabtree shown to even warrant a draft pick? The dude is going to get cut, teams arent going to waste a pick on him.

There could be a player for player trade if someone like Seattle has an excess of talent at a certain position. If Tony Moll can be traded, Tom Crabtree can be traded.

pbmax

08-31-2011, 11:03 AM

There could be a player for player trade if someone like Seattle has an excess of talent at a certain position. If Tony Moll can be traded, Tom Crabtree can be traded.

Perhaps, but Tony Moll actually started some games. Fred Vinson might be a closer comparison and he went for a guy the HC no longer wanted.

HarveyWallbangers

08-31-2011, 11:06 AM

I don't think anybody will give up anything for Crabtree. Quarless has more potential and could net a late pick, but because of that potential I'd like to keep him. Of the TEs on the roster, he's the more in the Finley, stretch the field mold.

I don't want to trade Flynn. There's a good possibility that the trade would be equivalent to trading Flynn, Quarless, and a 3rd round pick for a 1st round pick. For a team that has Super Bowl aspirations they may need Flynn to win some games this year, and that could be the difference between home field advantage or not OR making the playoffs or not OR holding onto a lead in a playoff game. Just not worth it. Plus, I have faith in Thompson's ability to mine the 3rd or 4th round for a future stud.
:)

mraynrand

08-31-2011, 11:06 AM

This Crabtree fella is something else. Not only is he worth at least four roster spots, but he's apparently also worth one of Seattle's starting O-lineman. And he's going to get cut.

Pugger

08-31-2011, 11:31 AM

Can't agree. Given Rodgers concussion history, we need to keep Flynn.

This.

It would be foolhearty to trade away Flynn in case something happens to Rodgers. And what team - unless they lose their starter during the season - is gonna give us a draft pick when they know Flynn will be unrestricted after this season?

SkinBasket

08-31-2011, 12:23 PM

Flynn's not going to win us many more games than Harrell. Fuck him. Trade him for a 3rd and a hand job.

Harlan Huckleby

08-31-2011, 01:03 PM

2nd and a reach around

TravisWilliams23

08-31-2011, 01:34 PM

This.

And what team - unless they lose their starter during the season - is gonna give us a draft pick when they know Flynn will be unrestricted after this season?

Oakland?

Brandon494

08-31-2011, 03:47 PM

Hes not going to win us anymore games then Harrell yet someone is going to trade us a high pick for him?

easy cheesy

09-01-2011, 12:34 AM

Fuck the Seahwawks... I see their name in a thread and I cringe... I get immediate A.D.D. and don't give a shit what the thread could really be about... Fuck the Seahawks... (ummm.... did I say that already?.... ok... done...) Don't mind me... I have the football IQ of a Honey Badger when it comes to these incompetent fucks but at least I'm rabid about my illogical and ill informed opinions and thought processes.... ESPECIALLY when it comes to those fucks... the Seahawks that is...

smuggler

09-01-2011, 06:55 AM

Why do you have issues with the Seahawks?

SkinBasket

09-01-2011, 07:35 AM

Hes not going to win us anymore games then Harrell yet someone is going to trade us a high pick for him?

It happens all the time, my colored friend. Maybe you didn't see what the Eagles got for Kolb.

Brandon494

09-01-2011, 08:02 AM

I know they are both white but Fylnn is no where near as good as Kolb. Kolb was a former 2nd round pick who many (not myself) believe to be a franchise QB. Fylnn is a former 7th round pick who's a good backup but would be a average starter at best in the NFL. One article by some no name writer about him being the best backup QB and GB homers hyping him up is not going to make his trade value increase. We would get a 4th round pick at best for him.

wootah

09-01-2011, 08:16 AM

Kolb was a former 2nd round pick who many (not myself) believe to be a franchise QB. Fylnn is a former 7th round pick who's a good backup but would be a average starter at best in the NFL.

So you believe both are of average quality, and the only reason why Kolb would be worth more is his drafting slot.

What?

retailguy

09-01-2011, 08:35 AM

So you believe both are of average quality, and the only reason why Kolb would be worth more is his drafting slot.

What?

Brandon's got a "gut feel" for these things. You just have to trust him. Now, if Flynn had been a 6th round pick, instead of 7th, ala Hasselbeck, then you might have something, but that's clearly not the case.

Brandon494

09-01-2011, 08:35 AM

Where did I say Kolb was average?

What?

Brandon494

09-01-2011, 08:37 AM

I gave your mom a gut feeling last night

retailguy

09-01-2011, 09:02 AM

I gave your mom a gut feeling last night

Good one Brandon!

My guess is that you haven't spent a bunch of time in the Wisconsin northwoods. If you ever do visit, you'd better call her first. I always make sure to remind her to put the sawed off shotgun away that she keeps by the door loaded with buckshot so she doesn't scare the children. Oh, BTW, it isn't to "get rid" of the "varmints". Well, not the animal kind anyhow.

Harlan Huckleby

09-01-2011, 09:03 AM

I gave your mom a gut feeling last night she threw up when she saw you naked?

pbmax

09-01-2011, 09:08 AM

So you believe both are of average quality, and the only reason why Kolb would be worth more is his drafting slot.

What?

Franchise Starter>>????????????>>Average Starter

Small bit of room there. But even more to the point, Kolb had more starts and playing time overall. Flynn has 1.5 reg season games on film, Kolb has seven starts and 19 games played, plus at one point he ascended, briefly, to the starting QB gig and lost it only to injury and Vicks good play.

Add that up plus a Cardinals team desperate for a QB to placate Fitzgerald and you have a team desperate enough to overpay. The Packers never solicited offers (there aren't even rumors about it) and its way to close to the beginning of the season. The market for Flynn would be very low right now.

wootah

09-01-2011, 09:09 AM

Where did I say Kolb was average?

A couple of posts higher:

Kolb was a former 2nd round pick who many (not myself) believe to be a franchise QB.

If you're not a franchise QB, you're either an average, replaceable QB or a bad QB, not? Or is that too straightforward and you use the whole AA+ or BB- rating that's en vogue now?

Even if you think Kolb is better than Flynn, referencing the impact of the draft slot is just "talking none since" (©J.Finley).

wootah

09-01-2011, 09:12 AM

But even more to the point, Kolb had more starts and playing time overall. Flynn has 1.5 reg season games on film, Kolb has seven starts and 19 games played, plus at one point he ascended, briefly, to the starting QB gig and lost it only to injury and Vicks good play.

Add that up plus a Cardinals team desperate for a QB to placate Fitzgerald and you have a team desperate enough to overpay.

I completely agree, PB. But the same can be the case for Flynn; it only takes 1 GM desperate enough to pull the trigger. I don't think the difference between Kolb & Flynn is as big as Brandon makes it out to be and I'm convinced that their draft slot will not impact their value at all (cfr. Brohm).

pbmax

09-01-2011, 09:16 AM

A couple of posts higher:

If you're not a franchise QB, you're either an average, replaceable QB or a bad QB, not? Or is that too straightforward and you use the whole AA+ or BB- rating that's en vogue now?

Even if you think Kolb is better than Flynn, referencing the impact of the draft slot is just "talking none since" (©J.Finley).

Come on wootah, this is like the Partial debate of Rodgers ranking.

Franchise QBs = Brady, Manning, Brees

Average QBs = Kyle Orton, David Garrard, Eli Manning

Pugger

09-01-2011, 09:18 AM

Where a player is drafted in only important on draft day. Just ask Tom Brady.

pbmax

09-01-2011, 09:19 AM

I completely agree, PB. But the same can be the case for Flynn; it only takes 1 GM desperate enough to pull the trigger. I don't think the difference between Kolb & Flynn is as big as Brandon makes it out to be and I'm convinced that their draft slot will not impact their value at all (cfr. Brohm).

I think the draft slot does pertain to one thing: upside, or perhaps more accurately, ceiling. He has the physical traits, production and starts that qualified him for the (traditional) first day of the draft. Flynn did not. Its not a perfect indicator, and the farther we are away from it, it means less. But it does tell us something about the reach of his ability.

Pugger

09-01-2011, 09:23 AM

BYW, I'm not comparing Kolb or Flynn to Brady by any means, just the fact that where a player is drafted doesn't mean much if he can show he can play. Poor Brohm was drafted high but we all know what happened to him.

wootah

09-01-2011, 09:33 AM

Come on wootah, this is like the Partial debate of Rodgers ranking.

Franchise QBs = Brady, Manning, Brees

Average QBs = Kyle Orton, David Garrard, Eli Manning

He said he didn't think Kolb was a franchise QB and that Flynn was average at best. Maybe I jumped to conclusions here, I'm willing to admit that, but I'm not agreeing with you on the draft slot part.

I think the draft slot does pertain to one thing: upside, or perhaps more accurately, ceiling. He has the physical traits, production and starts that qualified him for the (traditional) first day of the draft. Flynn did not. Its not a perfect indicator, and the farther we are away from it, it means less. But it does tell us something about the reach of his ability.

This I don't agree with, PB. It only takes one silly guy pulling the trigger. Insert Al Davis picture here. Or what about Sam Shields. Ceiling is only one of more aspects.

Brandon494

09-01-2011, 09:34 AM

Brandon494

09-01-2011, 09:35 AM

she threw up when she saw you naked?

She threw up but not because she saw me naked.

SkinBasket

09-01-2011, 02:39 PM

She threw up but not because she saw me naked.

You must be one ugly guy if she threw up before you got naked.

SkinBasket

09-01-2011, 02:42 PM

I think the draft slot does pertain to one thing: upside, or perhaps more accurately, ceiling. He has the physical traits, production and starts that qualified him for the (traditional) first day of the draft. Flynn did not. Its not a perfect indicator, and the farther we are away from it, it means less. But it does tell us something about the reach of his ability.

We're talking about reality right? Not the player equations in Madden? Draft postion determines player ceilings? wut, wut?

As someone else already pointed out... for every player who provides an example for this kind of thinking, there's another one, or two, or 12 who prove the opposite.

Zool

09-01-2011, 02:45 PM

Guiness

09-01-2011, 04:03 PM

Where is Jamal Reynolds now-a-days?

Still running upfield. He ran right by the OT, lost sight of the quarterback, and just kept going. He went north through the endzone, and was last seen outside Nipigon. No one knows how he got across Superior.

Fritz

09-01-2011, 04:34 PM

Not true, Guiness, and very mean of you to boot.

Reynolds tweaked a hammy as he went through the endzone, limped as far as he could, and in an interview later made no excuses but did say it's hard to be effective when you're hurt.

pbmax

09-01-2011, 10:41 PM

This I don't agree with, PB. It only takes one silly guy pulling the trigger. Insert Al Davis picture here. Or what about Sam Shields. Ceiling is only one of more aspects.

Quite true. However, the Eagles aren't known for this. Not with QBs, anyway.

pbmax

09-01-2011, 10:52 PM

We're talking about reality right? Not the player equations in Madden? Draft postion determines player ceilings? wut, wut?

As someone else already pointed out... for every player who provides an example for this kind of thinking, there's another one, or two, or 12 who prove the opposite.

Yes, we are talking about reality. I am talking about those rookies likeliest to succeed at a high level in the NFL. Not a guarantee of any sort.

And if you stop to think about it, there are not 12 low draft picks who turn out to be stars compared to higher picks. Its quite the opposite and I think plain as day.

That is not to say that mistakes aren't made. And those mistakes (Reynolds) are far more celebrated than low picks who bomb out. But the success rates precisely fall in line by round. Also works for Pro Bowls and All Pros.

Just think about the number of Hall of Fame QBs in late rounds (Unitas, Starr, Brady) and the number of high picks (Marino, Elway, Montana, Aikman, Young, Grahm, Kelly, Bradshaw, Dawson, Griese, Namath, Staubach, Tarkenton, Van Brocklin (4th round, iffy in small league with 82 round draft), Waterfield).

Guiness

09-01-2011, 11:04 PM

Yes, we are talking about reality. I am talking about those rookies likeliest to succeed at a high level in the NFL. Not a guarantee of any sort.

And if you stop to think about it, there are not 12 low draft picks who turn out to be stars compared to higher picks. Its quite the opposite and I think plain as day.

That is not to say that mistakes aren't made. And those mistakes (Reynolds) are far more celebrated than low picks who bomb out. But the success rates precisely fall in line by round. Also works for Pro Bowls and All Pros.

Just think about the number of Hall of Fame QBs in late rounds (Unitas, Starr, Brady) and the number of high picks (Marino, Elway, Montana, Aikman, Young, Grahm, Kelly, Bradshaw, Dawson, Griese, Namath, Staubach, Tarkenton, Van Brocklin (4th round, iffy in small league with 82 round draft), Waterfield).

Who invited the voice of reason to the party?

wootah

09-02-2011, 04:34 AM

I am talking about those rookies likeliest to succeed at a high level in the NFL. Not a guarantee of any sort.

You are (partially) right but that was not what we were discussing; we were talking about the possible impact of a draft slot on a trade 3 or 4 years after the draft. When a team decides the value of an individual player after 3 years, I doubt that they say "let's offer more because he was drafted high and in general those guys tend to have a better career". No, they actually look at what they think his individual current value is, not at what was perceived to be his value/ceiling (by another team) a couple of years earlier.

If they think he is worth a lower round pick even if at the time of the draft he was picked high, they will offer a lower round pick and vice versa.

pbmax

09-02-2011, 07:33 AM

You are (partially) right but that was not what we were discussing; we were talking about the possible impact of a draft slot on a trade 3 or 4 years after the draft. When a team decides the value of an individual player after 3 years, I doubt that they say "let's offer more because he was drafted high and in general those guys tend to have a better career". No, they actually look at what they think his individual current value is, not at what was perceived to be his value/ceiling (by another team) a couple of years earlier.

If they think he is worth a lower round pick even if at the time of the draft he was picked high, they will offer a lower round pick and vice versa.

I understand and certainly, draft slot matters less and less after the players career is underway. However, those same baseline evaluations are still the same. Experience in college, production and all measurables.

Think about all the players that get second chances. Coaches all think they can be the ones to finally bring out the talent that hasn't displayed yet. Perhaps this is what you and Skin are doubting, the fact that for players like Gholston, this rarely works out.

But for Kolb and Flynn, who were occasionally given the opportunity to start and produce (and more often than not, these two did), that potential is far closer to being realized than for a player like Gholston, who only made his last few rosters on his contract and status. Basically, their tape, unlike the flop, still shows promise, but is incomplete.

And when that tape is incomplete, that is when that baseline draft evaluation becomes important. How much more room is there for this kid to get better? And Kolb's upside seemed higher on his draft day than Flynn. Flynn may have been handicapped by his number of starts and needing to wait for Russell to graduate, but it mattered on draft day.

And with an unknown quantity, it still matters today.