A Hater's Take

[Deputy Nutz]

I am not a hater of the Packers as much as some of you would like to disagree with me, but for now that is the title of this post. I saw a lot of good things out of the Packers last night, and some poor, but the Packers demonstrated in the first week of the season why they should be considered a strong canidate for a Super Bowl repeat.

Offensively the Packers look dominate. The beginning of this season reminds me of the beginning of the 1996 season where the Packers offense looks to be in mid season form already. With Rodger at the helm this offense seemed to do what ever they wanted against a mediocre Saints defense. Outside of a couple of poor blitz reads and pickups throughout the game by Finnley, and Rodgers the offensive line looked strong in pass protection. Clifton demonstrated why he can still play this game at a high level at 36 years old. TJ Lang jumped offsides twice but he is twice the run blocker that Colledge is or was, plus he didn't get beat in the passing game. Lang is the right choice at left guard and if he can settle down pre snap he is going to have a really fine year. Sitton is a road grader. On Kuhn's touchdown he and Wells cleared out the nosetackle and pushed him right into the second level of the defense.

This Passing game is off the chart with these back shoulder throws. Tough pass to thow, tough pass to catch. The timing has to be perfect and Jennings and Rodgers make it look easy. Jordy Nelson is the legit number 3 receiver, if not Aaron Rodgers's number 2 receiver. James Jones is looking like the odd man out. Finley is filthy, if anything Rodgers looks too much to Finley and might have to watch out with trying to force balls into his big tight end. He actually had a nice block on a running down teaming with Crabtree to form a seam. Randall Cobb is simply the steal of the 2011 draft. He is the Packers most dangerous open field runner and that is saying alot with Jennings and Driver on this team. On his touchdown catch he made two Saints look like Pop Warner players.

Rodgers was sharp 90% of the game but he did let the rush get to him at the end of the game when he didn't step up in the pocket and buy time for his tight end to get open across the middle. Instead he forced it to Kuhn. He missed some throws on third down, but all in all he is cerebral with his disection of defenses and honestly Payton Manning has nothing on Rodgers when it comes to running an offense. Again Rodgers is starting this season like Favre started the 1996 season in total control.

Starks and Grant are going to form a great tandem. Both averaged over 4.5 yards a carry and later in the year both should still be fresh. Starks was the hot hand in the second half, he has a great feel for the zone scheme and picks his lane and is up the field. He is tall but he has great body lean and seems to always fall foward. Grant will make more of an impact as the season grows, but he had a decent game, needs to play faster, he had openings that he needs to take advantage of for larger gains.

Defensively the Packers held their own against a tough and fast Saints' offense. Brees is a great field general and when he has time he is going to pick a defense apart. The Packers played nickel all night long with only two down linemen, I personally didn't like the look so early in the game, but it allowed the Packers to get early pressure with inside blitzes, but the Saints corrected their mistakes and the Packers had a hard time getting to Brees in the second half with just rushing three or four. In fact I have no clue why the Packers would even consider rushing 3. Mathews is relentless but he can easily be handled when he is only one of three rushers. Mathews is at his best when the Packers are in a 3 down front. Against Brees it doesn't matter how many defenders are in coverage he is going to find an open receiver if he has time.

Tackling has to get better, but the only tackling these guys do is in games so I expect it to get better. AJ Hawk made a great play as time expired. If that was pass interference then there is no hope for this league. He looked like Superman flying threw the air, in fact he got to the ball before he made contact with Sproles.

Special teams great returns, horrible coverage. Needs to get cleaned up in a hurry if the Packers want to be a complete team and make a dominating run to the Super Bowl.

Hater out.

[jmbarnes101]

That was a good read, thanks.

[mmmdk]

I agree; AJ Hawk made a great play.

[mraynrand]

"In fact I have no clue why the Packers would even consider rushing 3"

Third and 12 I think it was where that just totally failed. I don't know if he tried it again, but you just can't do that with a guy like Brees. Still, that guy Brees is pretty good - he can pick you apart even when you mix it up and disguise where you're coming from. Tough to defend

[red]

if it wasn't for that horrible call we would be calling hawks play at the end of the game an early candidate for play of the year. that was just insane

lang did have the 2 false starts, but i think they both came in the 1st quarter, he played a great game after that

[Harlan Huckleby]

Defensively the Packers held their own against a tough and fast Saints' offense. Brees is a great field general and when he has time he is going to pick a defense apart. The Packers played nickel all night long with only two down linemen, I personally didn't like the look so early in the game, but it allowed the Packers to get early pressure with inside blitzes . Giving up 34 points is not holding their own. I saw some pressure from little guys blitzing outside, the Saints Oline stoned them on the inside linebacker blitzes. The D made some stands in the red zone and that was the difference in the game.

[wootah]

Randall Cobb is simply the steal of the 2011 draft.

Homer! 30 teams didn't even play yet. In all seriousness, good read. I can't get tired of watching that KO return and seeing Cobb going matrix on New Orleans.

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/broll.gif

[imscott72]

Giving up 34 points is not holding their own. I saw some pressure from little guys blitzing outside, the Saints Oline stoned them on the inside linebacker blitzes. The D made some stands in the red zone and that was the difference in the game.

Saints offense is top notch. They're going to light up a lot of defenses this year. I thought our D did a great job of bending but not breaking. 34 pts or not, I'd give them a B- grade overall for this game..

[pbmax]

Did Kuhn really hold up Cobb on that spin/hit? Because of he did, it should be play of the year twice.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe B- is fair. I'll split hairs and give them a C because they can certainly get better.

[imscott72]

Did Kuhn really hold up Cobb on that spin/hit? Because of he did, it should be play of the year twice.

Cobb was in the middle of his spin move, and looked like he was going down, but Kuhn kept him up. Amazing play to watch over and over.

[Bossman641]

I'm not even sure who to blame for the pass defense. Brees had time, but it's not like he was sitting back there for 4-5 seconds every time he dropped back. The ball was coming out of his hand quick. I'd say it was more coverage then lack of a pass rush.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cobb was in the middle of his spin move, and looked like he was going down, but Kuhn kept him up. Amazing play to watch over and over.
I think Kuhn was trying to strip the ball!

[MadScientist]

Saints offense is top notch. They're going to light up a lot of defenses this year. I thought our D did a great job of bending but not breaking. 34 pts or not, I'd give them a B- grade overall for this game..
C-, and only that high because they managed 4 stops in the red zone. Totally torched the whole game.

[Spaulding]

Nice post Nutz as you mentioned a few things I either missed or had forgotten about already. For a so called "hater" that was about an even of a post as possible and far better than some of the "homer" stuff that gets posted.

Defensively the Pack's special teams still scare me but with the offense clicking, Cobb a threat on returns we can probably afford a few of those breakdowns during the season.

[Tony Oday]

So does Kuhn get a half TD for the Cobb catch?

[RashanGary]

Well said. Cobb has a long way to go before he's on par with Jennings as a wide out, but as a runner, I agree. He breaks tackles better. Jennings is a special WR though. Hard to imagine Cobb being as dominant pre catch as Jennings is.

[KYPack]

That play should have been called back. They don't call this much anymore, but it's illegal to assist the runner. Kuhn caught him and then gave him a tiny shove forward. Can't do that. Good, it's about time we got a call.

Jarius Wynn had a great game. Played tough, aggressive ball and was always in position. He looked like a different guy. 3 tackles and an assist, one tackle for a loss. We needed somebody to come out of the shadows, looks like Wynn is one of those risers.

[SkinBasket]

Played tough, aggressive ball and was always in position. He looked like a different guy. 3 tackles and an assist, one tackle for a loss. We needed somebody to come out of the shadows, looks like Wynn is one of those risers.

More of a floater than a riser, but we'll see.

[channtheman]

That play should have been called back. They don't call this much anymore, but it's illegal to assist the runner. Kuhn caught him and then gave him a tiny shove forward. Can't do that. Good, it's about time we got a call.

Jarius Wynn had a great game. Played tough, aggressive ball and was always in position. He looked like a different guy. 3 tackles and an assist, one tackle for a loss. We needed somebody to come out of the shadows, looks like Wynn is one of those risers.

I was wondering about this. Thanks for the clarification.

[smuggler]

if it wasn't for that horrible call we would be calling hawks play at the end of the game an early candidate for play of the year. that was just insane


Even considering the fact that he was flagged for it, that was a game saving play. Sproles makes the catch if not for that sweet aerial swat. As it turns out, Hawk saved a touchdown either way.

[mraynrand]

That play should have been called back. They don't call this much anymore, but it's illegal to assist the runner. Kuhn caught him and then gave him a tiny shove forward. Can't do that. Good, it's about time we got a call.

Nah, Kuhn was just protecting his ankles. Cobb putting his hand down was the key element to his Matrix moment.

[mraynrand]

Even considering the fact that he was flagged for it, that was a game saving play. Sproles makes the catch if not for that sweet aerial swat. As it turns out, Hawk saved a touchdown either way.


Yup. It was a good play, great effort.

[denverYooper]

Nice post.

I was wondering what went wrong here:



Rodgers was sharp 90% of the game but he did let the rush get to him at the end of the game when he didn't step up in the pocket and buy time for his tight end to get open across the middle. Instead he forced it to Kuhn. He missed some throws on third down, but all in all he is cerebral with his disection of defenses and honestly Payton Manning has nothing on Rodgers when it comes to running an offense. Again Rodgers is starting this season like Favre started the 1996 season in total control.


because it looked like McCarthy was pretty riled up about it. He usually has that reaction on a play that wasn't run as designed. If the play is run correctly but just gets beat by the D, he usually has that pursed-lips "well, shit" look on his mug.

[red]

Even considering the fact that he was flagged for it, that was a game saving play. Sproles makes the catch if not for that sweet aerial swat. As it turns out, Hawk saved a touchdown either way.

thats actually a great point smuggler, i never even thought of that

[MadtownPacker]

Great post by Nutty, proof he is more than just skinbaskets personal sperm donor.

Can't really hate on the defense. The saints will be scoring 30 points on a bunch of teams this season.

[Fritz]

I have a question about some of Rodgers's choices. Several times during the game, he'd get pressure and step up and keep looking down the field, while (it seemed to me) he'd have a running back - usually Starks, I think, but sometimes Grant - slipped out wide in the flat and seemingly wide open.

Why did Rodgers not go to that safety valve in some of those sticky situations? It looked like there was yards to be had by going that way, and Rodgers could have gotten rid of the ball at less risk of getting belted.

[pbmax]

I'm with Mad, Nutz. It's a great read. Thanks for posting it. Forget the hater label. Cold, emotional logic is fine by me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/SpockVulcan.jpghttp://www.greenbaypackernation.com/images/stories/Articles/Thompson_Ted.widec.jpg

[Lurker64]

That play should have been called back. They don't call this much anymore, but it's illegal to assist the runner. Kuhn caught him and then gave him a tiny shove forward. Can't do that. Good, it's about time we got a call.

Thought that was illegal in college, but not in pro ball. I remember hearing that the "Bush Push" in the USC-Notre Dame game a few years back was technically illegal in that game, but that sort of thing is totally legit in the pros.

Okay, I looked it up. In the 2010 rulebook (I don't have the 2011 one yet). Rule 12, Section 1, Article 5 says:


No offensive player may:
(a)lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time; or;
(b) use interlocking interference, by grasping a teammate or by using his hands or arms to encircle the body of a teammate; or
(c)trip an opponent; or
(d)push or throw his body against a teammate to aid him in an attempt to obstruct an opponent or to recover a loose ball.

So what Kuhn did was borderline, he didn't so much "lift" or "pull" Cobb, he more "stabilized him" which is borderline.

[KYPack]

Thought that was illegal in college, but not in pro ball. I remember hearing that the "Bush Push" in the USC-Notre Dame game a few years back was technically illegal in that game, but that sort of thing is totally legit in the pros. Do you know the rule number?

Yeah, it's illegal.

This from the NFL site:

Digest of Rules Main (http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/digestofrules)

Use of Hands, Arms, and Body


No player on offense may assist a runner except by blocking for him. There shall be no interlocking interference.


It rarely gets called. Like palming in the NBA. That would have been a tough call, shit I couldn't figure out how Cobb spun himself around until I watched a few replays. I thought Peyton was gonna protest, but he can't toss the Red flag anymore, right?

[red]

i think you have to look at the video and ask if kuhn really did help cobb at all

cobb has both feet set and his hand down ready to head up field, kuhn then grabs him and almost spins him around, the wrong way. cobb then takes a split second to turn the right way before continuing on

kuhn might have hindered the run more then help it

[Joemailman]

I have a question about some of Rodgers's choices. Several times during the game, he'd get pressure and step up and keep looking down the field, while (it seemed to me) he'd have a running back - usually Starks, I think, but sometimes Grant - slipped out wide in the flat and seemingly wide open.

Why did Rodgers not go to that safety valve in some of those sticky situations? It looked like there was yards to be had by going that way, and Rodgers could have gotten rid of the ball at less risk of getting belted.

This is Rodgers' greatest weakness, in my opinion. He just doesn't like to dump the ball off to the back for 5-10 yards.

[Fritz]

I thought the opposite of Red - I thought Kuhn helped stabilize Cobb and then Kuhn pointed the kid in the right direction.

[KYPack]

i think you have to look at the video and ask if kuhn really did help cobb at all

cobb has both feet set and his hand down ready to head up field, kuhn then grabs him and almost spins him around, the wrong way. cobb then takes a split second to turn the right way before continuing on

kuhn might have hindered the run more then help it

He holds him up with his right hand and gives him a shove in the upfield direction with his left. You aren't supposed to touch the runner, it doesn't matter what direction you shove him, etc.

It's interference, but the fact that they never call it anymore was a big part of the "no call".

Can you imagine the shitstorm in Lambeau is they called that play back due to interferring with the runner ?

[Joemailman]

He holds him up with his right hand and gives him a shove in the upfield direction with his left. You aren't supposed to touch the runner, it doesn't matter what direction you shove him, etc.

It's interference, but the fact that they never call it anymore was a big part of the "no call".

Can you imagine the shitstorm in Lambeau is they called that play back due to interferring with the runner ?

Not sure it's true you can't touch the runner:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/6564/dirty-laundry-a-little-help

Aaron Rodgers made a first down with less than five minutes left with a quarterback sneak against the 49ers. If you look at the replay, it appears that he was pushed from behind and assisted in gaining the first down by one of his running backs. I always thought that this was a penalty. Yes or no?
Quite definitively, the answer is no.

The NFL rulebook prohibits several actions designed to accelerate the progress of a ball carrier. But pushing from behind is not one of them. Fullback Quinn Johnson's shove was perfectly legal, and when you watch the replay, it looks like was probably necessary to secure a first down.

Here is what the rules say no offensive player can do:
(a) lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time; or
(b) use interlocking interference, by grasping a teammate or by using his hands or arms to encircle the body of a teammate; or
(c) trip an opponent; or
(d) push or throw his body against a teammate to aid him in an attempt to obstruct an opponent or to recover a loose ball.
The rulebook even provides an example of the Johnson-Rodgers play as an example of what is legal:

Second and goal on B2. Runner A1 gets to the line of scrimmage and is stopped but A2, who is behind him, pushes him from behind and shoves him over the goal line. Ruling: Touchdown.

There’s nothing revelatory here, but I find that many people have mistaken assumptions about NFL rules and how they’re applied. Hopefully we’ll be able to continue mowing them down here on Dirty Laundry.

[KYPack]

Not sure it's true you can't touch the runner:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/6564/dirty-laundry-a-little-help

Aaron Rodgers made a first down with less than five minutes left with a quarterback sneak against the 49ers. If you look at the replay, it appears that he was pushed from behind and assisted in gaining the first down by one of his running backs. I always thought that this was a penalty. Yes or no?
Quite definitively, the answer is no.

The NFL rulebook prohibits several actions designed to accelerate the progress of a ball carrier. But pushing from behind is not one of them. Fullback Quinn Johnson's shove was perfectly legal, and when you watch the replay, it looks like was probably necessary to secure a first down.

Here is what the rules say no offensive player can do:
(a) lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time; or
(b) use interlocking interference, by grasping a teammate or by using his hands or arms to encircle the body of a teammate; or
(c) trip an opponent; or
(d) push or throw his body against a teammate to aid him in an attempt to obstruct an opponent or to recover a loose ball.
The rulebook even provides an example of the Johnson-Rodgers play as an example of what is legal:

Second and goal on B2. Runner A1 gets to the line of scrimmage and is stopped but A2, who is behind him, pushes him from behind and shoves him over the goal line. Ruling: Touchdown.

There’s nothing revelatory here, but I find that many people have mistaken assumptions about NFL rules and how they’re applied. Hopefully we’ll be able to continue mowing them down here on Dirty Laundry.

Well I disagree with this "Dirty laundry" guy.

The shove from behind is illegal

Here is what the rules say no offensive player can do:
(a) lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time; or

You can't help the runner. Shoving him forward is against the rules. I see this happen every once in ahwile and wonder why they don't call it. What Kuhn did was a violation, but they just don't flag those violations anymore.

[Lurker64]

A number of people (including myself) tweeted at former head of officiating Mike Pereira about assisting the runner on Cobb's kickoff touchdown. His response:

http://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/112334488733876224


Our crew brought up a good point. Assisting the runner on the kickoff return? No. Must lift him to his feet(from the ground) or pull him.

So I guess nothing illegal happened on that play between Kuhn and Cobb.



Well I disagree with this "Dirty laundry" guy.

The shove from behind is illegal

Here is what the rules say no offensive player can do:
(a) lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time; or

You can't help the runner. Shoving him forward is against the rules. I see this happen every once in ahwile and wonder why they don't call it. What Kuhn did was a violation, but they just don't flag those violations anymore.

Actually, the shove from behind is totally legal.

Page 78 of the 2010 rulebook (under Rule 12, section 1, Article 5), they give this example (A.R. 12.2)


Second and goal on B2. Runner A1 gets to the line of scrimmage and is stopped but A2, who is behind him, pushes him from behind and shoves him over the goal line.
Ruling: Touchdown.

Pereira seems to imply that the illegal acts are "lifting a runner off of the ground" and "pulling a runner forward." Pushing from behind and stabilizing a runner who has lost his balance appear to be totally legal.

[King Friday]

I don't think Kuhn helped Cobb at all. Cobb was going to maintain his balance and keep heading up the field if Kuhn wasn't there. In fact, Cobb seems to be trying to run up field while Kuhn is still holding onto him. If you saw Cobb in college, you'll know that the kid has incredible body control...I find it highly unlikely he needed Kuhn to direct him where to go.

If anything, I think Kuhn's greatest impact was that he hindered the vision of the play for some Saints players who probably thought Cobb was tackled and let up on the play...giving Cobb a chance to escape downfield.

[rbaloha1]

I was wondering about this. Thanks for the clarification.

Agree about Wynn -- playing fast with a great motor. Very good rotation once Neal returns.

[mraynrand]

I'm with Mad, Nutz. It's a great read. Thanks for posting it. Forget the hater label. Cold, emotional logic is fine by me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/SpockVulcan.jpghttp://www.greenbaypackernation.com/images/stories/Articles/Thompson_Ted.widec.jpg

Ted Thompson killed James Tiberius Kirk:

http://www.eons.com/images/members/2010/4/24/4/9/49054127213397173656_610w.jpeg?1272144492

[mraynrand]

He holds him up with his right hand and gives him a shove in the upfield direction with his left. You aren't supposed to touch the runner, it doesn't matter what direction you shove him, etc.

It's interference, but the fact that they never call it anymore was a big part of the "no call".

Can you imagine the shitstorm in Lambeau is they called that play back due to interferring with the runner ?

It's still a judgment call, and in the bang-bang moment it doesn't look much like he's helping him - it looks as much as though he's getting out of the way. But I can see how you could view it the other way, depending on your angle. It could have been called. and you're right, the crowd would have gone ape-shit.

[pbmax]

It's still a judgment call, and in the bang-bang moment it doesn't look much like he's helping him - it looks as much as though he's getting out of the way. But I can see how you could view it the other way, depending on your angle. It could have been called. and you're right, the crowd would have gone ape-shit.

If Lurk's quotes from Perriera are correct, then it was about as close as possible, in retrospect. Because of Kuhn's position, he was almost pulling him forward. And while he didn't lift him off the ground, he used the exact same leverage and motion to help him keep off the ground. Kuhn really threaded a bureaucratic needle there.

[pbmax]

Isn't there a play that used to be run in football (way, way back, like Teddy Roosevelt as the precursor to the NCAA back) where teammates would pull a back through or around a line of scrimmage?

I seem to recall reading about such a play, or maybe it was from Rugby or other alternate forms of this game. Because of the convoluted way the rules are written, it almost seems like they are trying to prevent something specific, rather than ban assistance altogether.

Someone (vince? Tar?) had some great information on the early days of football and its precursors. Maybe someone can confirm or debunk my memory.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I saw that play in the movie "Flubber"

[mraynrand]

If Lurk's quotes from Perriera are correct, then it was about as close as possible, in retrospect. Because of Kuhn's position, he was almost pulling him forward. And while he didn't lift him off the ground, he used the exact same leverage and motion to help him keep off the ground. Kuhn really threaded a bureaucratic needle there.

I agree. It's just that my first reaction was to think that Cobb was going down and Kuhn was trying to prevent Cobb and his tacklers from rolling Kuhn's ankles. Then I realize Cobb put his hand down and is still going. I wonder if the officials had the same reaction.

[mraynrand]

I saw that play in the movie "Flubber"


However, I bet this was your favorite scene in the movie:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwZ8zHng4mc&feature=related

[Harlan Huckleby]

where was Fred McMurray? Remaking that movie is like repainting "The Mona Lisa" on black velvet.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxFb6gKNEM

You can see the play around the 3 minute mark

[Lurker64]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxFb6gKNEM

You can see the play around the 3 minute mark

If MM were the Rutland coach, he would have just doggedly run the ball once up 37 points thus preventing an improbable Medfield comeback.

[mraynrand]

where was Fred McMurray? Remaking that movie is like repainting "The Mona Lisa" on black velvet.

Don't get down on your living room art, Harlan. A velvet lisa is a step up from the Monet puzzle you used to have hanging there.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_enq8TLucnDw/SdDENmPWgeI/AAAAAAAABbY/4_1o9hw8gpo/P3270008.JPG

[Harlan Huckleby]

My mom is an artist. I have one of her paintings in my living room. I once asked a vistor what he thought of it, and he said it was kind of crappy. Then I dropped the bomb, and the guy shrunk deep into the chair.

Twenty years later, I bought this unbelievably shitty painting from St. Vinny's because I wanted the frame. The same friend saw it in trunk of my car, I asked him what he thought of it and he said, "Its lovely - why I'd recognize your mother's work anywhere."

[red]

My mom is an artist. I have one of her paintings in my living room. I once asked a vistor what he thought of it, and he said it was kind of crappy. Then I dropped the bomb, and the guy shrunk deep into the chair.

Twenty years later, I bought this unbelievably shitty painting from St. Vinny's because I wanted the frame. The same friend saw it in trunk of my car, I asked him what he thought of it and he said, "Its lovely - why I'd recognize your mother's work anywhere."

this can all be explained easily with one simple question

was this visitor your father by chance?

[Harlan Huckleby]

ya, my dad's idea of art is a big screen tv with a blonde fox news anchor on

[Fritz]

And that's bad why?

[Upnorth]

ya, my dad's idea of art is a big screen tv with a blonde fox news anchor on

Beauty is in the eye of the boob holder.

[MadtownPacker]

My mom is an artist. I have one of her paintings in my living room.
Wouldn't that technically be her living room?

[pbmax]

Wouldn't that technically be her living room?

Ouch. That's going to leave a mark.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wouldn't that technically be her living room?
Shut-up, Mr. Judgemental. I take good care of mother. Every night I carry her up to her bedroom, and of course my work is never done managing the motel.

[mraynrand]

Shut-up, Mr. Judgemental. I take good care of mother. Every night I carry her up to her bedroom, and of course my work is never done managing the motel.

And 'she' wouldn't even harm a fly!

[mraynrand]

My mom is an artist. I have one of her paintings in my living room. I once asked a vistor what he thought of it, and he said it was kind of crappy. Then I dropped the bomb, and the guy shrunk deep into the chair.

Twenty years later, I bought this unbelievably shitty painting from St. Vinny's because I wanted the frame. The same friend saw it in trunk of my car, I asked him what he thought of it and he said, "Its lovely - why I'd recognize your mother's work anywhere."

:lol:

[KYPack]

Isn't there a play that used to be run in football (way, way back, like Teddy Roosevelt as the precursor to the NCAA back) where teammates would pull a back through or around a line of scrimmage?

I seem to recall reading about such a play, or maybe it was from Rugby or other alternate forms of this game. Because of the convoluted way the rules are written, it almost seems like they are trying to prevent something specific, rather than ban assistance altogether.

Someone (vince? Tar?) had some great information on the early days of football and its precursors. Maybe someone can confirm or debunk my memory.

You are right. Back in the caveman days of football, they used to bind onto the man with the ball and drag him. I saw an ancient jersey with actual handles on it that they used to use to drag the runner in the College Football HOF when it used to be at Kings Island. The rules we have today descend from the time when they made it illegal to assist the runner.

[pbmax]

You are right. Back in the caveman days of football, they used to bind onto the man with the ball and drag him. I saw an ancient jersey with actual handles on it that they used to use to drag the runner in the College Football HOF when it used to be at Kings Island. The rules we have today descend from the time when they made it illegal to assist the runner.

You put Darren Sproles in that jersey (or maybe Reggie Bush) and you could toss him like a hand grenade for a first down.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And 'she' wouldn't even harm a fly!

I try and give Madtown a chuckle but usually only get anger or a blank stare, I wonder if that movie ever plays on Telemundo.

[mraynrand]

I try and give Madtown a chuckle but usually only get anger or a blank stare, I wonder if that movie ever plays on Telemundo.

Sure it does, but there it's called "Normal Guy"

[swede]

Nice post, Nutz. I don't think I've had any trouble figuring out where you are coming from as a football fan. You've explained it clearly at least twice.

As far as the language for assisting the runner, the common practice of "pushing the pile" seems to be in violation of the rule as well.

As far as how that rule applies to the Cobb TD return, it once again seems a clear violation of the assisting rule. But it only seems clear in slow motion retrospect. In real time Cobb hit a knot of players and the next thing you know he was up in the air and flipped back onto his feet on the other side of the pile. The first concern of the refs was probably looking to see if the runner was down, and he was clearly not. If any ref noticed the assist by Kuhn he just said, "Wait...wut?" and the two beat delay was enough to make him think, "I could have thrown a flag but dammit. I'd look like an idiot if I throw it late and now that I think about it I should have thrown it late anyway because it really was assisting but now 18 scored a touchdown and I'd look like a real douche if I threw it now."

[Deputy Nutz]

Rodgers does need to do a better job of going to his check down than risking a pass down field. He doesn't go late over the middle which is good, but he has guys wide up with room to run if he goes through his progressions.

Favre used his running backs as outlets quite a bit under Holmgren and Sherman, but maybe it isn't the way McCarthy's offense rolls.

[RashanGary]

Favre used his running backs as outlets quite a bit under Holmgren and Sherman, but maybe it isn't the way McCarthy's offense rolls.

I've heard both Philbin and Rodgers hint that they don't like checkdowns. Maybe with Starks and eventually Green, that will change a little bit to fit the strength of his players.

[pbmax]

Rodgers does need to do a better job of going to his check down than risking a pass down field. He doesn't go late over the middle which is good, but he has guys wide up with room to run if he goes through his progressions.

Favre used his running backs as outlets quite a bit under Holmgren and Sherman, but maybe it isn't the way McCarthy's offense rolls.


I've heard both Philbin and Rodgers hint that they don't like checkdowns. Maybe with Starks and eventually Green, that will change a little bit to fit the strength of his players.

I wouldn't like checkdowns either since it seems the Packer checkdown is always immediately threatened with a closing defender. Not sure if its design or fear, but unless its misdirection, the Packer checkdown is usually destroyed after catching and turning.