Here we go again

[LP]

This just plain sucks.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/129821733.html

[MadScientist]

Not surprising giving how long he's been out without being able to play. The real problem is that the 3+ weeks of rehab just wasted time. Given that they are not putting him on IR, I'm guessing MCL, but possibly a meniscus tear. Either way let's hope his recovery is fast and without complications.

[pittstang5]

I don't understand why this wasn't taken care of during training camp. Now we have to wait more time. And who knows if he'll even fully recover for this season.

you're right, this does suck. Sucks royal monkey balls.

[SkinBasket]

Oh no! Mike Neal's out! We'll never win the super bowl now!

[denverYooper]

Oh no! Mike Neal's out! We'll never win the super bowl now!

LOL. This is about right.

Meanwhile, Wynn and Wilson continue to play and improve...

[denverYooper]

FTA, At least Tramon's likely to be back soon.

That'd be a much bigger hit.

[MadScientist]

I don't understand why this wasn't taken care of during training camp. Now we have to wait more time. And who knows if he'll even fully recover for this season.
Surgery only looks better in 20/20 hindsight. They clearly thought rehab would do it, and didn't want to risk complications like the one Finley had after his knee surgery last year. Since it didn't improve, going under the knife was the only option.

[rbaloha1]

Bring Back Justin Harrell!

[pbmax]

With swelling, my guess is meniscus. But I only play a doctor on the internet and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Lurker64]

It's not the worst thing in the world if the other five stay healthy. We only have five DL active on game days anyway, and Neal being on the bench makes that decision easy. Jarius Wynn took his game to the next level in week 1 and if he can keep it up, we'll be okay until Neal comes back.

For the record, against the Saints our average number of defensive linemen on the field was 1.9375 (Counting Walden as a defensive lineman on the goal line play).

[Teamcheez1]

Mike Neal and Vic So'Oto will be competing to wear the Justin Harrell crown this year.

[Tony Oday]

Should never have let Vonnie Holiday leave!

[mraynrand]

It's not the worst thing in the world if the other five stay healthy. We only have five DL active on game days anyway, and Neal being on the bench makes that decision easy. Jarius Wynn took his game to the next level in week 1 and if he can keep it up, we'll be okay until Neal comes back.

For the record, against the Saints our average number of defensive linemen on the field was 1.9375 (Counting Walden as a defensive lineman on the goal line play).

I had calculated 1.9380.

[wist43]

Put him on IR... free up the roster spot for another TE.

[AtlPackFan]

My understanding is that the concern isn't with the run, the concern is having a pass rush presence opposite Matthews. Neal, from what I have read, was suppose to provide that. Do they have anyone else in the DL or the linebackers that can provide that? Because I would think without it, Matthews is going to see double-teams all day long? No/Yes?

[red]

God damnit

stop fucking drafting guys with massive injury histories

put him on IR and bring in another d-lineman, neals just gonna end up getting hurt again anyways

is olshansky still available?

[Upnorth]

I had calculated 1.9380.

Rounding error.

[pbmax]

Mike Neal and Vic So'Oto will be competing to wear the Justin Harrell crown this year.

So'oto practiced today.

[bobblehead]

God damnit

stop fucking drafting guys with massive injury histories

put him on IR and bring in another d-lineman, neals just gonna end up getting hurt again anyways

is olshansky still available?

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

[Joemailman]

God damnit

stop fucking drafting guys with massive injury histories

put him on IR and bring in another d-lineman, neals just gonna end up getting hurt again anyways

is olshansky still available?

What massive injury history? He played in 46 games in 4 years at Purdue.

[pbmax]

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

Brett Favre.

[pbmax]

What massive injury history? He played in 46 games in 4 years at Purdue.

Here is better summary from CBS NFL Draft Scout:


Neal rehabbed after knee surgery during his redshirt season and missed five games with a turf toe injury in 2006. In 2007 he began to make his presence felt by making 3.5 tackles for loss and two sacks as reserve in 13 games. When finally receiving the chance to start the past two seasons, he accumulated 68 tackles, 21.5 for loss and 11 sacks.

Neal's injury history prompted coach Joe Tiller to call Neal "a tease" during spring 2008 practices, but Neal's toughness won't be questioned by scouts, as the former top Indiana high school recruit played through a torn labrum the last three games of 2007 and fought constant double-teams as a senior. His inconsistent motor and use of his brute strength to disengage from blocks won't impress scouts, but his general athleticism will earn him a spot somewhere in the middle third of the draft.

[Little Whiskey]

Brett Favre.

who's that?

[Fritz]

I don't know, but I bet you remember Mike Flanagan, who came back from a couple injuries to become a very solid starting center for the Packers. In fact, at one point Ron Wolf traded him to Carolina because Wolf was frustrated that Flanagan could not stay on the field (knee surgery, I think) - but Flanagan flunked the physical, was returned to the Packers, and ended up being a solid player for GB.

[Bossman641]

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

Adrian Peterson

[Harlan Huckleby]

With swelling, my guess is meniscus. But I only play a doctor on the internet and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. if it were anything else he would be out for season

[Harlan Huckleby]

What massive injury history? He played in 46 games in 4 years at Purdue. I'm surprised at that figure, because he did have significant injuries in college.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/564095


Neal rehabbed after knee surgery during his redshirt season and missed five games with a turf toe injury in 2006. In 2007 he began to make his presence felt by making 3.5 tackles for loss and two sacks as reserve in 13 games. When finally receiving the chance to start the past two seasons, he accumulated 68 tackles, 21.5 for loss and 11 sacks. Neal's injury history prompted coach Joe Tiller to call Neal "a tease" during spring 2008 practices, but Neal's toughness won't be questioned by scouts, as the former top Indiana high school recruit played through a torn labrum the last three games of 2007


EDIT: I see now that is the same quote PBMAX made earlier. That's ok, nobody reads PBMAX's posts, as I just demonstrated.

[Patler]

I don't know, but I bet you remember Mike Flanagan, who came back from a couple injuries to become a very solid starting center for the Packers. In fact, at one point Ron Wolf traded him to Carolina because Wolf was frustrated that Flanagan could not stay on the field (knee surgery, I think) - but Flanagan flunked the physical, was returned to the Packers, and ended up being a solid player for GB.

Flanagan broke both bones in his lower leg and had extensive nerve and muscle damage. He had to have multiple surgeries over a prolonged period to correct all of the problems. He was on IR one year and PUP and IR the next. For three seasons after that, he was a backup. In his 6th season he became the starter.

Flanagan had one injury that kept him out a long time. Unfortunately, Harrell and Neal seem to have different types of injuries one after another. Theirs are strings of multiple injuries.

[Fritz]

But it is an example of the type Red was seeking, no?

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://media.nj.com/times-sports/photo/9991941-large.jpg
The Eagles' Cullen Jenkins sacks St. Louis Rams' backup quarterback A.J. Feeley during the fourth quarter in yesterday's game.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-09-12/sports/30145448_1_rams-new-defensive-coordinator-steven-jackson
With defensive-line coach Jim Washburn regularly rotating his eight defensive linemen, the Eagles wore down the Rams' offensive line and put consistent pressure on Bradford.
"Awesome. Unbelievable. It's unbelievable," defensive end Darryl Tapp, who had one of his unit's five sacks and a forced fumble, said of the four-at-a-time line rotation. "Midway through the first quarter, I was realizing their offensive line was already getting winded. They're out there the whole time, and we got out there for four plays and then the next group comes in."

"We gave up a lot of long drives early on," said defensive tackle Cullen Jenkins. "Being able to stay fresh was big. The rotation really helps."

"We're not hoping to get to the quarterback," said Jenkins, "we're expecting to. There's still some things we need to work on against the run. But it was a pretty good start against the pass."
Jenkins gave the Eagles something they didn't get a lot of last season, an inside push that prevented Bradford from being able to step up in the pocket and avoid pressure from the edge rushers.

"The guys inside, they were pushing that pocket back," said defensive end Jason Babin, who had two of the Eagles' five sacks. "When a quarterback can't step up, it's hard to throw. And when they can't move up, we're coming from the outside with our ears pinned back."

[Harlan Huckleby]

making friends, one post at a time....

[Iron Mike]

Flanagan broke both bones in his lower leg and had extensive nerve and muscle damage.

That was at a pre-season game vs. Pittsburgh @ Lambeau.

[th87]

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

Adrian Peterson?

[Zool]

This made me laugh when taken out of complete context.

"We're just used to it," end Ryan Pickett said when asked about Neal's injury.

[sharpe1027]

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

Antonio Cromartie

[sharpe1027]

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

Priest Holmes

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm trying to come up with a sarcastic comeback by citing an example of a guy with a big injury history who turned it around....I can't think of one.

Clifton

[AtlPackFan]

Someone explain to me Thompson's thinking. When he first got to Green Bay he let Wahle and Rivera (I think it was Wahle and Rivera but I could be wrong...I'm old) go without knowing he had adequate placements. You would have thought he would have learned from that and would not have let Jenkins go without knowing Neal could do the job. Doesn't make sense to me. That's like divorcing your somewhat worn-around-the-edges wife to marry the skank down the street without knowing whether she can cook...food!!!

[hoosier]

Someone explain to me Thompson's thinking. When he first got to Green Bay he let Wahle and Rivera (I think it was Wahle and Rivera but I could be wrong...I'm old) go without knowing he had adequate placements. You would have thought he would have learned from that and would not have let Jenkins go without knowing Neal could do the job. Doesn't make sense to me. That's like divorcing your somewhat worn-around-the-edges wife to marry the skank down the street without knowing whether she can cook...food!!!

I will try, though it is more speculation than explanation.

1. You don't really know what you have until you try it.

2. TT's team building philosophy is rooted in identifying young talent that isn't apparent to most observers and developing it. If they had re-signed Jenkins that would have curtailed the development of the guys behind him. That goes back to #1: The Packers won't really know what they have in Wynn and Wilson (not to mention Neal) until they are put in the position of having to perform. They could turn out to be Will Whittickers or they could be Josh Sittons in the rough, but you won't know until you put them on the hot seat.

3. Maybe TT did want to bring him back at the price the Eagles got him for but didn't want to overpay for him. Nobody really knows if Jenkins was still open to returning once his market value crashed. Maybe he was pissed off by the whole process and held the Packers accountable becuase, well, someone has to pay.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Someone explain to me Thompson's thinking. When he first got to Green Bay he let Wahle and Rivera (I think it was Wahle and Rivera but I could be wrong...I'm old) go without knowing he had adequate placements. You would have thought he would have learned from that and would not have let Jenkins go without knowing Neal could do the job. Doesn't make sense to me. That's like divorcing your somewhat worn-around-the-edges wife to marry the skank down the street without knowing whether she can cook...food!!!

He knew something we didn't. Forget Mike Neal. Jarius Wynn and C.J. Wilson are around to save the day.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdIev12fCPs

[Harlan Huckleby]

If they had re-signed Jenkins that would have curtailed the development of the guys behind him.
Ya, this is a valid point in general. But D-line is a little like Pop Warner Football - everybody gets to play.

I think they could have kept 7 D-lineman, or possibly cut CJ Wilson if he didn't get his butt in gear.


Maybe TT did want to bring him back at the price the Eagles got him for but didn't want to overpay for him. Nobody really knows if Jenkins was still open to returning once his market value crashed. Maybe he was pissed off by the whole process and held the Packers accountable becuase, well, someone has to pay. It seems like the pissed-off explanation is unlikely, judging by comments from players. Probably TT made a mistake, but we don't know for sure.
The axe I am grinding is against the sour grapes brigade - people in this very forum - who insist that the loss of Jenkin's talents are no big deal. No need to name names, the HarveyWallbangers and JustinHarrells of this forum know who they are.

[sharpe1027]

Someone explain to me Thompson's thinking. When he first got to Green Bay he let Wahle and Rivera (I think it was Wahle and Rivera but I could be wrong...I'm old) go without knowing he had adequate placements. You would have thought he would have learned from that and would not have let Jenkins go without knowing Neal could do the job. Doesn't make sense to me. That's like divorcing your somewhat worn-around-the-edges wife to marry the skank down the street without knowing whether she can cook...food!!!

Given how often Jenkins has been injured, I don't think they are that much worse off this year than in the past. You can't keep everyone and there will always be hard choices that will be second guessed in hindsight.

[Harlan Huckleby]

hard choices that will be second guessed in hindsight. the Jenkins cut was questioned in foresight

it was a mistake regardless of how well Mike NEal does or doesn't play. You need quality depth at DL

maybe not a "mistake", we don't know that for sure, but certainly a big loss

[LP]

Whether or not Jenkins is a big loss has yet to be determined. It's only been one game. And while not the dominating defensive performance one might like to see, they did win against a very good opponent.

[Upnorth]

If they legitimately knew Neal could be done for a good chunk of the season, letting Jenkins go was a mistake. If not, then they may have felt they had the horses to not worry. The real question is how much info was the staff working with at the time of the decision.

[MadScientist]

If they legitimately knew Neal could be done for a good chunk of the season, letting Jenkins go was a mistake. If not, then they may have felt they had the horses to not worry. The real question is how much info was the staff working with at the time of the decision.

What info could the staff work with at the time of the decision to know that Neal would be miss a big chunk of time due to an injury during preseason practice? They presumably knew the condition of his shoulder and thought that was non-issue, anything else that could happen falls under the category of shit happens.

[sharpe1027]

the Jenkins cut was questioned in foresight

it was a mistake regardless of how well Mike NEal does or doesn't play. You need quality depth at DL

maybe not a "mistake", we don't know that for sure, but certainly a big loss

Today, they would be better with Jenkins on the roster. Tomorrow, not so certain. His salary, age, injury history, the roster spot and the development of the young D-linemen all factor into the decision.

[Fritz]

first, Mad is correct - someone's got the timeline wrong if that person thinks Neal's current injury occurred before Jenkins signed with the Eagles.

And here's another explanation: given a choice between the two, would Thompson rather pay the extra for the oft-injured vet, or pay a whole lot less for the young, rookie-year-injured kid?

[HarveyWallbangers]

The most important thing to remember is that Jenkins (even at a bargain) would have cost the Packers a little over $5/M year. That $5M/year takes up a piece of the pie that Sitton, Finley, Nelson, Matthews, Raji, and Rodgers will get (if/when they extend their contracts). Scratch Sitton because he got a piece of his pie. It's not necessarily whether Jenkins is better than Neal (probably), that Jenkins would stay healthier than Neal (who knows considering Jenkins injury history), or that one of the young guys (Neal, Wynn, Wilson) is or isn't capable of stepping up. I suggest that Thompson didn't want to spend that much money on a 3-4 DE--whose primary role is to take on blockers. He probably figures those are easier to find.

Now, if you wanted to fault Thompson for not getting a better OLB to pair with Matthews, I can see that. Then again, who was available? Maybe he felt like Zombo and/or Walden would give him that. Who knows. It's not all black and white.

[bobblehead]

What massive injury history? He played in 46 games in 4 years at Purdue.

But there were rumors that he had some bruises after games.

[bobblehead]

Ya, this is a valid point in general. But D-line is a little like Pop Warner Football - everybody gets to play.

I think they could have kept 7 D-lineman, or possibly cut CJ Wilson if he didn't get his butt in gear.

It seems like the pissed-off explanation is unlikely, judging by comments from players. Probably TT made a mistake, but we don't know for sure.
The axe I am grinding is against the sour grapes brigade - people in this very forum - who insist that the loss of Jenkin's talents are no big deal. No need to name names, the HarveyWallbangers and JustinHarrells of this forum know who they are.

I'm glad you didn't name names. That kind of stuff is uncalled for. But I recall arguing with the unnamed HarveyWallbangers regarding Jenkins value as well. In the end, I think he was mad that we didn't offer him a nice deal earlier and wouldn't have returned for what he ultimately signed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And here's another explanation: given a choice between the two, would Thompson rather pay the extra for the oft-injured vet, or pay a whole lot less for the young, rookie-year-injured kid? no need to choose, keep both. Plenty of playing time available at DL. If there is a choice ot be made, it is between Jenkins & CJ Wilson.

[KalamazooPackerFan]

I don't know, but I bet you remember Mike Flanagan, who came back from a couple injuries to become a very solid starting center for the Packers. In fact, at one point Ron Wolf traded him to Carolina because Wolf was frustrated that Flanagan could not stay on the field (knee surgery, I think) - but Flanagan flunked the physical, was returned to the Packers, and ended up being a solid player for GB.

I was at the game where Flanagan got hurt and it happened right in front of us. Just a brutal injury on par with Theisman's or Henderson's. I had to cover my niece's eyes! I doubt anyone really thought he could come back and have the career that he did.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So'oto is having back pain after trying to practice. Not looking good there.

[Guiness]

Don't understand how the guy goes through pre-season like a house on fire, makes the team on a UDFA then can't dress!

[Upnorth]

What info could the staff work with at the time of the decision to know that Neal would be miss a big chunk of time due to an injury during preseason practice? They presumably knew the condition of his shoulder and thought that was non-issue, anything else that could happen falls under the category of shit happens.

This is exactly my point, so how can someone conclude that letting Jenkins go is a mistake. Like you said, shit happens and it is happening again with so'oto. Lets hope this ends now and doesn't turn out like last year.

[hoosier]

Justin Harrell, Mike Neal, So'to = three peas in a pod.

[Fritz]

The So'oto thing is worrisome, just as the Neal thing. So now So'oto's back flares up? Jaysus. Ridiculous. And Williams may be out. Are other teams having these same issues, or is this really that "here we go again" thing?

I really thought after last year the gods would be with the Pack this year. But maybe not.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Gonna put my gynecologist's hat on here for a minute.

Neal - his problem was apparently a meniscus tear. Why wait a whole month before giving him an arthoscope? MAybe wait a week to see if it settles down. The scope can precisely identify the problem, doesn't in itself cause much damage, and they can do the surgery if needed.

So'oto - man, if it were just a strained muscle, hard to see why it would flair up again just with light activity. This is discouraging.

[rbaloha1]

Where is Justin Harrell when you need him?

[Pugger]

If Justin Harrell is healthy he might get a call if we lose another D lineman... :shock:

[rbaloha1]

If Justin Harrell is healthy he might get a call if we lose another D lineman... :shock:

Yes! I still maintain this guy can contribute.

[sharpe1027]

Neal - his problem was apparently a meniscus tear. Why wait a whole month before giving him an arthoscope?

In hindsight they could have done it immediately, but you want to be sure before you do an unnecessary surgery. Besides the potential of lengthening the recovery time if the surgery was not needed, there are serious risks to any surgery. It is not something you want to do just to take a look. Look at what happened with Finley when he had to have a second surgery because of an infection.

[Harlan Huckleby]

there are serious risks to any surgery. It is not something you want to do just to take a look. Look at what happened with Finley when he had to have a second surgery because of an infection. Actally, an arthoscope is a procedure done sometimes to "just have a look", and the recovery (if you don't do any repairs) is trivial. Maybe for a normal person it would be somewhat unusual, but for a professional athlete? Take a damn peek!

Valid point on the infection. I had a knee surgery that led to infection that resulted in a month long hospital stay and a very long recovery, back in highschool. It turns out that the surgeon was an alchoholic hack - I'm not joking. My family didn't get the full story until too late. Dr McCain - known familiarly as "Pain McCain."

[hoosier]

Jamal Reynolds, Joe Johnson, Justin Harrell, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal: the Packers have a fairly long line of disappointments at defensive end, guys who had early success or who appeared to be primed for it but who, for one reason or another, just couldn't stay on the field. Or who, in the case of Reynolds, were just horribly overrated. Even worse, the curse appears to be spreading--it is no longer limited to players with a name beginning with "J".

[Guiness]

Actally, an arthoscope is a procedure done sometimes to "just have a look", and the recovery (if you don't do any repairs) is trivial. Maybe for a normal person it would be somewhat unusual, but for a professional athlete? Take a damn peek!

Valid point on the infection. I had a knee surgery that led to infection that resulted in a month long hospital stay and a very long recovery, back in highschool. It turns out that the surgeon was an alchoholic hack - I'm not joking. My family didn't get the full story until too late. Dr McCain - known familiarly as "Pain McCain."

Wow.

Had surgery done on my toe that didn't work by a doctor McCain. I'd guess he was a drinker.
Same guy? Certainly possible. He had a good reputation, but didn't do me any favours.

Any idea if the guy relocated his practice to Canada?????

[Harlan Huckleby]

This was a McCain in twin cities back around 1976. Maybe he had a son - the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Guiness]

It was about 5-6 years ago, but the guy was in his sixties at least.

[sharpe1027]

Actally, an arthoscope is a procedure done sometimes to "just have a look", and the recovery (if you don't do any repairs) is trivial. Maybe for a normal person it would be somewhat unusual, but for a professional athlete? Take a damn peek!

Valid point on the infection. I had a knee surgery that led to infection that resulted in a month long hospital stay and a very long recovery, back in highschool. It turns out that the surgeon was an alchoholic hack - I'm not joking. My family didn't get the full story until too late. Dr McCain - known familiarly as "Pain McCain."

Do they do that "just have a look" even if they don't have many indications that surgery is going to be required? Seems extreme to put someone under if the have a little swelling and pain in their knees. Clifton would be going under the knife after every practice! ;)

[Harlan Huckleby]

It was about 5-6 years ago, but the guy was in his sixties at least. Pain McCain was around 60 in 1976

[Harlan Huckleby]

Do they do that "just have a look" even if they don't have many indications that surgery is going to be required? Seems extreme to put someone under if the have a little swelling and pain in their knees. Clifton would be going under the knife after every practice! ;)
Right, I was suggesting that you fire-up the scope after a week. You can tell when there is a signficant tear after that period, sensitivity to pressure.
Sometimes little cartilege tears will wear-down and heal themselves. Othertimes they rip more.

Exploratory Arthoscope "surgery" barely qualifies as surgery. They make a tiny hole and stick a fiber optic tube in ya. No more invasive than a typical night of sex between nutz and skinbasket.

ps. I don't entirely know what the fuck I'm talking about. I'm sure about Skin & Nutz, but there may be more trauma with the Arthoscope than I know.

[Fritz]

I read elsewhere that maybe it was a bursa sack.

I believe skinbasket would be the expert on sacks.

[Fritz]

Okay, the JSO injury report lists Williams, and now Alex Green as questionable. So'oto, Zombo, Neal all out.

My guess is neither Williams nor Green will play. That would be five guys out for the game. Carolina has one - Otah, the RT.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I remember the good-old-days when there was weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of Zombo for 3 or 4 games. Now it is questionable whether So'oto or Neal are coming back at all. I'm guessing the Zombo panic-attack exhausted the fan anxiety pool for the season.

[pbmax]

Aaron Kampman still out for the Jaguars this week. He has missed a lot of time in his last three years.

[Patler]

Okay, the JSO injury report lists Williams, and now Alex Green as questionable. So'oto, Zombo, Neal all out.

My guess is neither Williams nor Green will play. That would be five guys out for the game. Carolina has one - Otah, the RT.

I think it was Witt who said House "isn't ready" to play yet. Sounds like it won't be hard for MM to write up his list of inactives for the game. The only healthy one might be Sherrod.

[Fritz]

I remember the good-old-days when there was weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of Zombo for 3 or 4 games. Now it is questionable whether So'oto or Neal are coming back at all. I'm guessing the Zombo panic-attack exhausted the fan anxiety pool for the season.

Where did you find the news that So'oto may not come back at all? Or Neal?

Say it ain't so, Joe.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Where did you find the news that So'oto may not come back at all? Or Neal?

Say it ain't so, Joe. Oh, I'm just looking at pessimistic side. Neal's recovery is 2 months, so if they didn't desperately need a guy at his position, he would have been IR'd. Will he be in football shape? So'oto has a back problem that recurred, so I'm not counting on him 100%.

Probably both will return and contribute this season. IT just isn't certain.

[smuggler]

So'oto has a back injury, and he's already reinjured it once. If he does so again, I'd say he goes on IR. Get this dude on the field, PLEASE.

[pbmax]

So'oto has a back injury, and he's already reinjured it once. If he does so again, I'd say he goes on IR. Get this dude on the field, PLEASE.

Re-injured? When did this happen?

[pittstang5]

Re-injured? When did this happen?

It "Flared Up" I think was the term used. Wednesday after or during practice.

[Teamcheez1]

Okay, the JSO injury report lists Williams, and now Alex Green as questionable. So'oto, Zombo, Neal all out.

My guess is neither Williams nor Green will play. That would be five guys out for the game. Carolina has one - Otah, the RT.

Carolina lost Jon Beason LB for the season last week. He is/was one of their best players on defense.

[Fritz]

Okay. I feel better now.

Anyone know who the Packer game-day inactives are this week? I mean, we know it'll be Neal, Zombo, and So'oto. Then probably Alex Green. But who else?