wrasslin with nutz

[Harlan Huckleby]

Saw a interesting article in USA Today at Perkins yesterday:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/story/2011-09-13/wrestler-cael-sanderson-wants-to-add-to-04-gold/50393984/1

Then I remembered that the World Championships in Istanbul are online,
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/

Female wrestling is on live now. Maybe some Cael Sanderson matches are in archive.

[Scott Campbell]

Remember the Glorious Ladies of Wrestling?

G.L.O.W.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byhf3wVQbsw

[Harlan Huckleby]

The American wrestlers didn't do very well, so they didn't show-up in the gold medal bouts on ESPN

But all the matches are at the FILA site. Sanderson took a 5th out of 40. Watched him beat a Mexican, which was satisfying, and an Iranian. The Russian really clobbered him, though.
http://www.fila-wrestling.com/istanbul2011/

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/story/2011-09-17/sanderson-lose-bronze-at-worlds/50447218/1

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.flowrestling.org/speaker/159-Cael-Sanderson

Check out the 5 matches from June 11 where Sanderson qualified for U.S. team. All those guys are recent NCAA champs, and Sanderson totally dominates them. When CL got to the world tournament, he looked pretty ordinary, and not in top condition. I didn't realize that international competition was so far above even the top college wrestlers. The jump is bigger than from highschool to college.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well the rest of the world wrestles only Freestyle and Greco, we have a funny little style that we wrestle in the USA called Folk Style. Sure some of the moves are the same but the rules and how matches are set up are completely different. I could go over the nuiances with you but I think it would be a tremendous bore. Our best wrestlers are competing through college with a set and style completely different from international competition. The russian fell off a bit in the early 2000s but they are back with a vengence.

[mraynrand]

Well the rest of the world wrestles only Freestyle and Greco, we have a funny little style that we wrestle in the USA called Folk Style. Sure some of the moves are the same but the rules and how matches are set up are completely different. I could go over the nuiances with you but I think it would be a tremendous bore. Our best wrestlers are competing through college with a set and style completely different from international competition. The russian fell off a bit in the early 2000s but they are back with a vengence.

I am going to put you in a figure four.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Well the rest of the world wrestles only Freestyle and Greco, we have a funny little style that we wrestle in the USA called Folk Style.

The good college kids are wrestling freestyle in the off season, and its mostly familar takedowns, so I don't guess that is the reason. I find folk style the most interesting to watch. Greco-Roman is Sumo without the diapers. Both international styles emphasize brute force too much for my tastes, I like the athleticism and creativity of college wrestling.

Its amazing how a guy with a relatively slight build like Sanderson, and his clone at Penn State, David Taylor, wrestle so much stronger than the muscle-beach guys. I guess long limbs and torso can deliver the leverage. (I'm in dangerous territory here.)

The Badgers suck dick this year because their three best wrestlers decided to take year off to train for 2012 olympics. I am unaware of any other Big Ten team that got cleaned out. Most infuriating of all, they are training at a facility in Ann Arbor, and the Badgers' very best wrester, Andrew Howe, intends to wrestle his senior year at Michigan in 2013

[mraynrand]

(I'm in dangerous territory here.)

two point near fall

[Deputy Nutz]

The good college kids are wrestling freestyle in the off season, and its mostly familar takedowns, so I don't guess that is the reason. I find folk style the most interesting to watch. Greco-Roman is Sumo without the diapers. Both international styles emphasize brute force too much for my tastes, I like the athleticism and creativity of college wrestling.

Its amazing how a guy with a relatively slight build like Sanderson, and his clone at Penn State, David Taylor, wrestle so much stronger than the muscle-beach guys. I guess long limbs and torso can deliver the leverage. (I'm in dangerous territory here.)

The Badgers suck dick this year because their three best wrestlers decided to take year off to train for 2012 olympics. I am unaware of any other Big Ten team that got cleaned out. Most infuriating of all, they are training at a facility in Ann Arbor, and the Badgers' very best wrester, Andrew Howe, intends to wrestle his senior year at Michigan in 2013

Badger just landed the #1 recruiting class in the country for 2012 and they have Jesse Theilke coming back to Wisconsin after a year of training at the OTC for Greco. The Badgers let Howe out of his scholarship so he could follow Donny Pritzlaff an assistant coach to Michigan. The Badgers let him go because the already gave his scholarship away.

The wrestling styles don't have anything to do with the build of the wrestler for years the russians sent long limbed lean muscled wrestlers to the Worlds and the Olympics, still do. in Greco you do have to have a lot of upper body strength, but freestyle might be the most exciting to watch with the big throws and turns, since I understand folkstyle the best I like to watch folkstlye.

USA Wrestling is having a huge problem keeping the best wrestling talent in this country involved in wrestling after college, they have gone so far as to reward medal winners with cash at the bigger tournaments. Many talented wrestlers are leaving the sport for MMA. Ben Askren who is from Southeastern Wisconsin was two time NCAA Champion, and an Olympic qualifier. He didn't place in the Olympics, which is very rare for a first time competitor in freestyle, and he gave it up to get paid in MMA. He had a very different style in college and invented the "Funk" style of wrestling, it didn't translate well to freestyle because he would expose his back to the mat quite often to scamble for takedowns. You expose your back in freestyle you give up points. He did extremely well just changing his technique enough to make it to the Olympics.

David Taylor is an amazing wrestler, he started out his high school career wrestling at 103 pounds. He wasn't afraid to put on weight like a lot of wrestlers, he just works that much harder. He was a four time Ironman Champion which is one of the biggest national inseason tournaments in the country. Some say the Cheesehead in Kaukuna WI has overtaken the Ironman in terms of importance, but still Taylor was the number one recruit his senior year at a 135 pounds and now he is wrestling at 165 pounds. What makes him so good is his dicipline on the mat, he never breaks his stance and he is always moving, looking for angles. He using his length very well, and he is an excellent pinner.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Badger just landed the #1 recruiting class in the country for 2012 and they have Jesse Theilke coming back to Wisconsin after a year of training at the OTC for Greco. The Badgers let Howe out of his scholarship so he could follow Donny Pritzlaff an assistant coach to Michigan. The Badgers let him go because the already gave his scholarship away. .
I've heard about the Badgers recruiting class. All I know is what I see, and the team looked pretty awful in their inter-squad scrimmage. They are boring, they have only two mid-level ranked wrestlers, Jordan and Schmidt, who are just workmanlike. Ohio State has two dynamic freshman brothers, one who knocked-off Kellen Russell from MI. MN & IA have amazing first-year guys. Badgers look like weak sisters of Big 10, but maybe that will change by march.

Its bad enough that head coaches are taking their top wrestlers with them when they change jobs, now we're supposed to accept free agency when an assistant coach moves? Fuck that, whatever happenned to, "be true to your school, like you would to your best girl." I'm not bitter or nothing, but I hope Howe gets the aids.



USA Wrestling is having a huge problem keeping the best wrestling talent in this country involved in wrestling after college, they have gone so far as to reward medal winners with cash at the bigger tournaments. Many talented wrestlers are leaving the sport for MMA. Ben Askren who is from Southeastern Wisconsin was two time NCAA Champion, and an Olympic qualifier. He didn't place in the Olympics, which is very rare for a first time competitor in freestyle, and he gave it up to get paid in MMA. He had a very different style in college and invented the "Funk" style of wrestling, it didn't translate well to freestyle because he would expose his back to the mat quite often to scamble for takedowns. You expose your back in freestyle you give up points. He did extremely well just changing his technique enough to make it to the Olympics.
I was watching interview last spring with some MMA star who was former NCAA champ, maybe it was that guy. He said the training & physical grind for college wrestling was so tough, it made MMA seem like a vacation. I found this hard to understand, MMA looks so brutal. He said that wrestlers have huge advantage in MMA, and I can see how that would be true.

I never thought about the funky style and back points in freestyle, that makes sense. The funky wrestlers in college are so entertaining, maybe that is why I prefer folk to free.

[Deputy Nutz]

I have issues with college wrestling. I hate the riding time advantage for a point. It slows the sport, especially when college wrestlers don't get pinned. Only a handful of guys in college can ride a guy for pins, David Taylor being one of them. Also because of riding time advangtage refs don't bang the top guy for stalling as much. The refs just allow the top guy to hang on instead of working off parallel, and working for a pin.

The one rule I would add to college wrestling that is relatively new to international wrestling is awarding a point for pushing your opponent out of bounds. There is so much fleeing the mat in college wrestling I think it would do wonders to add more action to the sport.

Shit happens in regards to the Badgers, The Olympics are this summer, it says a lot for your program when you had 3 top guys take Olympic redshirts. It sucks that Pritzlaff had a falling out with the program because he was a hell of a recruiter and the kids liked working with him. The Badger took a severe hit when he left, especially with Howe leaving, but then they also lost a top recruit in Destin McCaully who is also taking a year off to wrestling with the OTC. He reniged on his commitment to the Badgers and accepted a deal at Iowa St. Barry Davis has found a way around Pritzlaff by hiring Ryan Morningstar who wrestled for Iowa under Brands and who's dad is folklore legend in Iowa. Morningstar has alread helped the Badgers a ton in recruiting.

Badgers recruiting class
UW Wrestling scores top recruiting class
http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/112411aaa.html
The Wisconsin wrestling team signed nine new wrestlers for the class of 2012
Nov. 24, 2011

[Harlan Huckleby]

Your idea of 1 point for pushing-off mat is excellent, there is WAY too much hanging around the mat edge as safety valve. It would make for exciting matches where mediocre guys can't stall.

Not so convinced about evils of riding time. Its only 1 point, and matters in maybe 1 out of 30 matches. But go ahead and get rid of it, if only because announcers spend too much time talking about it. Riding a good wrestler is damn hard, I appreciate a good top man. (thank god nobody reads this thread.) College wrestlers can get an escape unless they are being dominated. The stalling I see is by bottom guys avoiding major decisions, etc. I generally find college refs quick to call stalling, don't see stalling on mat as biggie.

One area where high school is more exciting is that you see reversals. College guys are too balanced to get reversed, so we see mostly endless standups. Occasionally a gramby roll to escape.

Its true that pinning is tough, but ANYBODY can get stuck in a cradle. Last year when little Davey Taylor got cradled in NCAA finals by that big black brute, why I nearly wept. That was indecent. Teammate Quentin Wright (excellent white person name) pinned tough guy in finals with bear-hug/trip to cradle, now that was spectacular.

As far as Badger Olympic hopefuls, I suppose odds are against any making team, but I don't know how their styles translate to freestyle. Tyler Graff is an elite wrestler, but I haven't seen him shine against top competition. Howe seems most likely to advance, but who knows.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tyler Graff took first place at Olympic qualifying tourny in Lost Wages, Nevada. (He qualifies to attend Olympic camp, not on team yet.) Guess I sold him short because I went to Big 10 tourny last spring and he had poor showing. Graff is good on feet so natural for freestyle. Barry Davis was there coaching him. His matches on page 2.
http://www.themat.tv/2011/12/2011-freestyle-qualifier-vegas/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exEI68ipseo

Andrew Howe took silver medal in London at similar pre-Olympic tourney. He got abused by more athletic Russian in final:
http://www.fila-wrestling.com/webtv/1628/fs/166.wmv

[mraynrand]

This thread is awesome

[Deputy Nutz]

Howe has no chance of making it to the Olympics he has the World Champion from Nebraska in his weight class and has 99% chance of losing to him.
Graff is super talented, but he will need to move up to 141 next year because Theilke will wrestle at 133, unless Theilke has bulked up and wants to wrestle 141. Graff is probably a better wrestler than Theilke, it will be an interesting team next year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Russian guy who threw Howe around looks like Superman, and Burroughs didn't face him at World Championships. But I see Burroughs beat Superman last May, so I guess Burroughs is the real Superman.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/238652-2011-Beat-The-Streets-Gala/video/488738-74-lbs-match-Jordan-Burroughs-USA-vs-Aniuar-Geduev-Russia

[hoosier]

http://movieclips.com/ZpH9y-barton-fink-movie-that-barton-fink-feeling/

[Harlan Huckleby]

I love that movie


http://movieclips.com/56NyU-barton-fink-movie-the-wrestling-basics/

[hoosier]

There is a whole wealth of Barton Fink clips on there. I wonder why none of them make it over to Youtube.