Nick Collins out for the Year

[vince]

per NFL Network via McCarthy's presser.

[mraynrand]

fun stuff

[Guiness]

On the front page of Packers.com as well. No article linked yet.

Wow - that's tough. Going to change how we do things back there for sure.

[pbmax]

Dayum.

[Packers4Glory]

FUCK!!!!!!!!!

[hoosier]

Tough break for Collins. Time for Burnett to emerge. Glad the next one up is Peprap instead of Bigby.

[3irty1]

At this point I just want to hear that its not career ending.

[mission]

At this point I just want to hear that its not career ending.

Really. There's no recovery timetable for neck injuries like an ACL... you either recover or your career is done. Sad day.

[vince]

Good luck Nick. Will TT re-sign Levine or Bratton?

[mraynrand]

Another example of TT relying on an injury prone player.

[Freak Out]

Get well soon Nick.

[AtlPackFan]

Shit. Now what? Seriously...who do they put back there?

Get well Nick. Hopefully this isn't a career ender.

[Scott Campbell]

Hope he's ok. This sure doesn't sound too good.

[Scott Campbell]

Green Bay - Packers coach Mike McCarthy came out saying he had bad news and he wasn't kidding.
S Nick Collins is out for the season with a neck injury.
Collins, who returned to Green Bay at 1 p.m., was evaluated last night in a Charlotte hospital and it was determined he should not play the rest of the season. A course of treatment, including whether to have surgery, is still being evaluated.
"Nick was in the team meeting," McCarthy said. "He told the team about it."
Asked if there were any career-ending implications, McCarthy said, "They're not far along in the evaluation process to make statements like that."
McCarthy said Collins is not in any pain.
"He has a neck brace on and he's walking around," he said. "You would never know (he's injured)."
McCarthy said when he first went to the podium for his post-game press conference, he had been told a pair of tests looked good. But later, before the team left, another test showed a problem.
I'll have more on this story as it develops.

[MadtownPacker]

Glad he is doing ok. Starting to turn into 2010 again. Hopefully someone steps up no way to replace 36.

[Brandon494]

DAMN DAMN DAMMMMMN!

At least hes ok just hope its not career ending.

[rbaloha1]

The packers won a super bowl with Peprah.

Everything shall be fine.

[packers11]

can the packers ever catch a break on the injury front??? come onnnnnn.... who missed that first tackle anyway...

[pbmax]

The NFL should consider padding everyone's backside. Unless you are Grady Jackson, in which case you don't want to be under him at all.

[Fritz]

I'm more of the "Oh for Crissakes" camp. Can this team not catch a break? Last year was a clusterf**k of injuries - and now Neal & Zombo for significant parts of the season, and Collins for the year?

Ridiculous.

[red]

FUCK

this is a big one. the drop off last year from burnett to peprah was next to nothing. the drop of from collins to peprah is massive. peprah is good and all, but collins is elite.

and now who'd behind peprah and burnett? bush?

it might be time for that charles woodson move to safety

this sucks

and it really sucks that it could be career ending

[sheepshead]

Blows...big time

[Joemailman]

Right now M.D. Jennings is the 3rd safety, although I suspect Bush starts taking more Safety reps in practice. I wonder if they give Brandon Underwood a call.

[Badgerinmaine]

Big drop-off for sure...but I do have some confidence in Peprah. How many other teams would have someone that well prepared to step in? Most importantly, I'm glad the injury wasn't worse--I know Collins was able to wave being rolled off the field, but I always think the worst when I see the heavy precautions being taken, even though I know they are routine.

[Packers4Glory]

FUCK

this is a big one. the drop off last year from burnett to peprah was next to nothing. the drop of from collins to peprah is massive. peprah is good and all, but collins is elite.

and now who'd behind peprah and burnett? bush?

it might be time for that charles woodson move to safety

this sucks

and it really sucks that it could be career ending

This...esp the bolded part. If there ever was a time, now is it. Williams and Shields can lock down the corner spots.

[Cheesehead Craig]

How many other teams would have someone that well prepared to step in?

Worth repeating. It's not like Peprah sucks. He played pretty well last season.

Don't get me wrong, this sucks huge donkey c@ck.

[Joemailman]

You move Woodson to Safety and you're looking at Bush/Lee as your nickel all year. I'd rather go with Peprah and Burnett right now so Woodson can play the slot where he's most dangerous.

[SkinBasket]

I would think that one has to assume, even in the most passive language possible, that his career is over and a recovery is the longer shot, especially given how the injury occurred - that it wasn't a shock type impact.

Peprah has plenty of experience, and while the defense may suffer to a small degree, it's not like Collins was playing that well. Also, my main brotha: Jennings, MD is in the house. It'll be interesting to see how they fill that roster opening though. Hard to imagine with the amount of youth already there that they would rely on bringing a guy like Levine back instead of someone with some kind of experience... like... Atari Bigby for instance.

[Freak Out]

Holy fuck.....Skin has lit the Bigby signal.

[Packers4Glory]

You move Woodson to Safety and you're looking at Bush/Lee as your nickel all year. I'd rather go with Peprah and Burnett right now so Woodson can play the slot where he's most dangerous.

Just in your base. You can bring Pep in to play safety in nickel and let Woodson do what Woodson does in nickel.

[SkinBasket]

Holy fuck.....Skin has lit the Bigby signal.

It matters not. Jennings will be starting for us by season's end.

[Badgerinmaine]

Holy fuck.....Skin has lit the Bigby signal.
You'd have to deal for him because he's playing for Seattle now.

[shammye06]

Holy fuck.....Skin has lit the Bigby signal.

Bigby plays for the seachickens. How about Darren Sharper?

[SkinBasket]

You'd have to deal for him because he's playing for Seattle now.

I'm not going to say thank goodness... but... what's Matt Giordano up to these days?

Just checked, and holy shit, Giordano starts for the Raiders, has 10 tackles, a forced fumble, an INt and a PD this season. So much for that idea.

[pbmax]

Wood will not be playing safety. Unless the rest of the depth chart is gunned down at Applebees, he isn't moving. He has spent no time training there and in the few instances he has been deep, it has been specific to game situations only, not the depth chart.

[pbmax]

I'm not going to say thank goodness... but... what's Matt Giordano up to these days?

In Oakland. Al might let him go for a very fast gazelle.

[red]

its time for TT to work some of that magic and find us some db help somewhere

our depth looks pretty weak for cb's and safety's

maybe it's time to to get rid of one or two of those 20 TE's we have on the team and get some help there. i saw no reason to keep anyone other then finley yesterday

[Joemailman]

Bigby plays for the seachickens. How about Darren Sharper?

Jason la Canfora on the subject:


Sharper obviously knows the players and coaches in Green Bay. Who knows? Maybe he fills a need.

Well, let's see. He would know Driver, Clifton and Wells. I think that's about it. Does he really know the coaches? I doubt it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Wood will not be playing safety. Unless the rest of the depth chart is gunned down at Applebees, he isn't moving. He has spent no time training there and in the few instances he has been deep, it has been specific to game situations only, not the depth chart.

Wow someone with reason. Woodson is a corner, who is at his best in the slot, he doesn't play safety and never has.

[Little Whiskey]

its time for TT to work some of that magic and find us some db help somewhere

our depth looks pretty weak for cb's and safety's

maybe it's time to to get rid of one or two of those 20 TE's we have on the team and get some help there. i saw no reason to keep anyone other then finley yesterday

james jones anyone?

[Joemailman]

UPDATE: Collins' agent, Alan Herman, said that he has talked to Collins twice and that a diagnosis is not complete. He said he did not know exactly what the injury is, but he said it is not spinal cord-related or a fracture.

"It's 100% not a broken neck or a spinal cord injury," Herman said.

All signs point to a disk injury, but Herman said one thing the doctors will be looking at is whether it was related to a previous injury.

This at least improves somewhat the chances it's not a career ending injury

[MadScientist]

Didn't the defensive backfield look strong at the beginning of the season? Yikes.
Get well Nick.

[MJZiggy]

This at least improves somewhat the chances it's not a career ending injury

Good to hear. Or read. Or whatever. I hope he's alright.

[Harlan Huckleby]

no words to describe how terrible this is

[pbmax]

Jason la Canfora on the subject:



Well, let's see. He would know Driver, Clifton and Wells. I think that's about it. Does he really know the coaches? I doubt it.

He was let go in TT's first offseason, wasn't he? So he would know McCarthy as a TEs coach from 1999.

[Joemailman]

can the packers ever catch a break on the injury front??? come onnnnnn.... who missed that first tackle anyway...

Looked like Woodson missed the tackle and Stewart them Hurdled hawk who was on the ground before the contact with Collins.

[Joemailman]

no words to describe how terrible this is

How about one word. Sucksbigdonkeydick.

[mmmdk]

CRAP!

Get well soon!

[Scott Campbell]

no words to describe how terrible this is

It's sucky.

[MadScientist]

This at least improves somewhat the chances it's not a career ending injury
Maybe, but Manning's problem was a disk problem and who knows if he'll ever recover enough to play again. Neck injuries are bad news.

[Patler]

Too bad. With the way Burnett has played the first two weeks, I was just thinking the Packers might have nearly the best safety combinations in the league.

Compared to last year, the change isn't Collins to Peprah, its Collins to Burnett, and the way Burnett has been playing they might not be far off from last year.

[sheepshead]

Too bad. With the way Burnett has played the first two weeks, I was just thinking the Packers might have nearly the best safety combinations in the league.

Compared to last year, the change isn't Collins to Peprah, its Collins to Burnett, and the way Burnett has been playing they might not be far off from last year.


That's a pretty good way to look at it.

[gbgary]

sick to hear about nick. i hope for his sake, and the Packers, that it's not career ending but his long term health is the most important thing.

[bobblehead]

TT just signed a bagger at the local piggly wiggly. All bets are that this guy makes alternate to the probowl and 31 GM's continue scratching there collective heads with a WTF!! bubble floating over.

Of course I jest, Collins is irreplaceable in my mind. Hopefully the dropoff isn't too severe and we can adjust. This is similar to the Finley injury last year in that its worse than the other 15 or so combined.

[Fritz]

Too bad. With the way Burnett has played the first two weeks, I was just thinking the Packers might have nearly the best safety combinations in the league.

Compared to last year, the change isn't Collins to Peprah, its Collins to Burnett, and the way Burnett has been playing they might not be far off from last year.


But how about looking at it that last year was a deluge of injury, and uncalled-for shitstorm of injury, and the Pack was due some good luck. What about thinking that geez, how about having the best safety tandem in the NFL in Burnett and Collins?

Fuckin' A. This blows.

[Partial]

This really sucks. Seems odd that they don't know the extent of the injury yet but can rule him out for the year but also conclude it's not career threatening (per his agent evidently -- heard this on twitter, don't know if its true). Seems like a very strange combination of information at this stage of the game.

After reading he was fine last night, I'm shocked by this. Leads me to believe they found something they didn't want to find, a pre-existing condition that could potentially limit his career.


Update:

Heres an article I just found on it:
http://blogs.greenbaypressgazette.com/blogs/gpg/insider/2011/09/19/collins-didnt-break-neck-or-back-disc-problem-suspected/

[pbmax]

1. Unless Herman had other quotes to other outlets, he has said it did not involve damage to the spinal cord or a broken neck. But he did not rule out career threatening.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/130142063.html

2. McCarthy said he had one report about two tests right before walking to the podium but received more news after a third test was run. Its also possible they choose to wait to deliver the bad news after Collins made it back to the team in GB.

3. Given the speed of the corrected diagnosis, the GB team doctors must have agreed with whatever the Carolina Doctor's saw. I think McKenzie and other team doctors and trainers have stayed behind in visiting cities before to escort the player home.

[Fosco33]

Apparently it's not stenosis...a la Sharpe or Terrance Murphy. That was my guess after hearing out for year.

Man - this blows. Neal and Collins....

Over/under on another half dozen starters going down in next 10 weeks like last year. WTF.

[MJZiggy]

Apparently it's not stenosis...a la Sharpe or Terrance Murphy. That was my guess after hearing out for year.

Man - this blows. Neal and Collins....

Over/under on another half dozen starters going down in next 10 weeks like last year. WTF.

Shut up!

[HarveyWallbangers]

This f'ing sucks. I have a bad feeling about this. Two of my favorite Packers went out with neck injuries (Tim Lewis, Sterling Sharpe), and they never made it back. Nick is one of my favorite 3 or 4 Packers. I'm going to miss watching him fly around making big plays.

[Fosco33]

Shut up!

I propose a Bretsky whammy on this injury bug!

[Joemailman]

This f'ing sucks. I have a bad feeling about this. Two of my favorite Packers went out with neck injuries (Tim Lewis, Sterling Sharpe), and they never made it back. Nick is one of my favorite 3 or 4 Packers. I'm going to miss watching him fly around making big plays.

I've been feeling the same way. The fact that they've ruled him out for the season before the diagnosis is even complete pretty much assures it's serious.

[3irty1]

Well out for the season has to mean surgery and recovery. I've heard that it has something to do with his disks which isn't good. If this happened to me I'm sure they'd try to fuse vertebrae together. Hopefully there is some magical alternative that they save for elite athletes.

[pbmax]

Weird Twitter coverage. Both Mr and Mrs Collins Tweeted their thanks to everyone and said Nick was coming home. No mention of bad news, at least as retweeted by my follow list of reporters.

That was 7 and 9 hours prior to this post. Then at 5 hours before this post, McCarthy news conference. They must have known, no?

Would the team have waited until he touched down in GB to deliver the news?

[pbmax]

Well out for the season has to mean surgery and recovery. I've heard that it has something to do with his disks which isn't good. If this happened to me I'm sure they'd try to fuse vertebrae together. Hopefully there is some magical alternative that they save for elite athletes.

He is seeing a specialist in New York and his agent said the suspect is a disc problem. But no stenosis.

[3irty1]

He is seeing a specialist in New York and his agent said the suspect is a disc problem. But no stenosis.

Was Sharpe's injury stenosis? I know Murphy was but I thought stenosis was more of something that you are born with, not something that happens to you.

[pbmax]

Was Sharpe's injury stenosis? I know Murphy was but I thought stenosis was more of something that you are born with, not something that happens to you.

I think it was a complicating factor but the injury itself was something else. And yes, you either have it or you don't, its not something inflicted by trauma. But if you have it, it makes reinjury more likely since the spinal column will be weaker or less flexible.

[vince]

It's bad enough that he's out for the year, but if it's career ending, tragic. The fact that they can't rule out that it isn't career ending isn't reassuring. Collins has been so productive and that pick-6 in the Super Bowl is in the top echelon of great Packer moments. He's always taken a positive outlook and he and his family should be taken care of. Sucks when this happens to a great player in the prime of his career.

It's tough to even think about it, but the team has to be able to move forward, and Nick will be there inspiring them on. Fortunately for us Peprah has proven to be a reliable safety, particularly in run support.

Hopefully he's not done, but if he is, he's a Packer Hall of Famer and a big part of what turned out to be a special team that made a once-in-a-lifetime run to a championship. Not many people can say that.

[Joemailman]

Sharpe had a looseness between two vertebrae.

http://articles.philly.com/1994-12-29/sports/25852917_1_pepper-burris-john-randle-sterling-sharpe

Sterling Sharpe, the Green Bay Packers' Pro Bowl receiver, will miss the playoffs with a career-threatening neck abnormality, the team said yesterday.

Sharpe sustained "stinger" nerve injuries in each of the last two games and missed practice Tuesday so he could be examined by a specialist in Indianapolis.

Team physician Patrick McKenzie and trainer Pepper Burris said the injuries resulted from looseness between the top two vertebrae in Sharpe's neck.

The condition was gradual, and displayed itself Dec. 18 against Atlanta, when Sharpe's head snapped back while he was blocking safety Brad Edwards.

Sharpe must undergo surgery to fuse the two vertebrae, McKenzie said - a

procedure that would be necessary whether or not he plays football again. It will take eight months for Sharpe to recover from the procedure, which has yet to be scheduled.

The team and Sharpe will decide then whether he should play again.

[Harlan Huckleby]

was that Tim Lewis who had to quit after a couple years? ITs going to happen from time to time.

[MJZiggy]

was that Tim Lewis who had to quit after a couple years? ITs going to happen from time to time.

But why does it have to happen to the really good ones?

[SkinBasket]

Leads me to believe they found something they didn't want to find, a pre-existing condition that could potentially limit his career.

Maybe he can join one of those high risk insurance pools.

[Joemailman]

This f'ing sucks. I have a bad feeling about this. Two of my favorite Packers went out with neck injuries (Tim Lewis, Sterling Sharpe), and they never made it back. Nick is one of my favorite 3 or 4 Packers. I'm going to miss watching him fly around making big plays.

If you Google Tim Lewis Injury, Harvey's post above is the 2nd entry on the list right below Tim Lewis' wikipedia entry. We've come so far.

[Harlan Huckleby]

wow. I just googled "clueless numbskull" and skinbasket's post just came up! This internet thing is moving faster and faster.

(only kidding, Skinbasket, I'm sure you know what a high risk pool is all about.)

[pbmax]

Sharpe had a looseness between two vertebrae.

http://articles.philly.com/1994-12-29/sports/25852917_1_pepper-burris-john-randle-sterling-sharpe

Sterling Sharpe, the Green Bay Packers' Pro Bowl receiver, will miss the playoffs with a career-threatening neck abnormality, the team said yesterday.

Sharpe sustained "stinger" nerve injuries in each of the last two games and missed practice Tuesday so he could be examined by a specialist in Indianapolis.

Team physician Patrick McKenzie and trainer Pepper Burris said the injuries resulted from looseness between the top two vertebrae in Sharpe's neck.

The condition was gradual, and displayed itself Dec. 18 against Atlanta, when Sharpe's head snapped back while he was blocking safety Brad Edwards.

Sharpe must undergo surgery to fuse the two vertebrae, McKenzie said - a

procedure that would be necessary whether or not he plays football again. It will take eight months for Sharpe to recover from the procedure, which has yet to be scheduled.

The team and Sharpe will decide then whether he should play again.

And according to the Milwaukee Journal, from which I think Joe's article quotes or reproduces, it did NOT involve spinal stenosis. He also did not have a disc problem.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oB4eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=On8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3480,3763433&dq=sterling+sharpe&hl=en

[MJZiggy]

And according to the Milwaukee Journal, from which I think Joe's article quotes or reproduces, it did NOT involve spinal stenosis. He also did not have a disc problem.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oB4eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=On8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3480,3763433&dq=sterling+sharpe&hl=en

Well if he'd had his head screwed on straight. Ok, don't bother. I'm going to bed.

[Joemailman]

Any chance this would work for Nick?

http://byrdhouse.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/headon_byrdhouse.jpg

[pbmax]

Well if he'd had his head screwed on straight. Ok, don't bother. I'm going to bed.

As more of this comes back to me, I think teams were scared off in part by the uniqueness of the injury. As the article states, it was two vertebrae that don't commonly get injured in the way he injured them.

[Bossman641]

Really devastating news for Collins. He is one of my favorite Packers and it's amazing to see how much ground he can cover while the ball is in the air. I'd hate for this to be career-ending, we certainly are overdue for some good luck. Here's to a quick recovery.

[MadScientist]

But why does it have to happen to the really good ones?

Because the really good ones are good enough to be in the action.

[SkinBasket]

(only kidding, Skinbasket, I'm sure you know what a high risk pool is all about.)

Yeah, I know, I know. It's only for poor people who can't actually afford it. Having people who could pay the "premiums" would defeat the point of government subsidy - which, as you say, is what it's "all about."

[SkinBasket]

This is bad news and all, but some of you folks are acting like this was Reggie White, when he was still alive.

[Pugger]

This is bad news and all, but some of you folks are acting like this was Reggie White, when he was still alive. :cnf:

[Brandon494]

Yea losing a top 3 FS for the year and maybe his career is no big deal. It's not like we have been struggling in pass defense this season or anything.

[sheepshead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

[vince]

Love Nick Collins and hope for the best for him and his family. Obviously this doesn't help the team. The question I have is, "How much will it hurt the team?"

The Packers have obviously struggled to get offenses off the field and they've been lit up against the pass with Collins. By no means am I saying Collins is to blame although he hasn't played up to his capabilities this year. I'm of the opinion that they won't be much worse as the year progresses and should get better (again, not because of the loss of Collins obviously). Burnett will probably play more deep middle than previous, which I don't think is a bad thing. He can make plays back there.

Collins has been described as the quarterback of the secondary, so there could be some adjustment in getting people in the right spots and coverages, but I don't think that will be a big ongoing issue personally. Darren Perry will have his guys coached up and knowing what's going on back there. By all accounts, both Burnett and Peprah are smart guys.

Peprah isn't a bad safety, although I think he's a bit of a liability covering deep. He plays under control and guys go over the middle at their own risk when he's in there. He fills very well against the run and can play in the box. Doc Jennings may get some looks as the year goes on. I'm not sure how ready he is, but he seems to have some playmaking ability. Bush has improved this year for sure, but I'd still rather see what the Doc can do before moving Bush back there.

The Packers need to get home with more pressure to help the secondary. The Bears have not been good on the o-line thus far and have 2 starters probably out this week. This is the week for Matthews, Raji, Wynn, Walden, Bishop, Wilson to get home. And they have to shadow the hell out of Forte, who's been the Bears biggest and pretty much only weapon.

[sheepshead]

For Charlie:

“To each there comes in their lifetime a special moment when they are figuratively tapped on the shoulder and offered the chance to do a very special thing, unique to them and fitted to their talents. What a tragedy if that moment finds them unprepared or unqualified for that which could have been their finest hour.”
― Winston S. Churchill

[Guiness]

According to his agent (the article linked by Partial), Nick is up and around without any problem or pain.

He can run around and do whatever he wants to do right now.

Hopefully this means the possibility of long term effects to his health are low. You have to think the doctors discovered a pre-existing condition, or something ‘moved’ that shouldn’t have. He was shut down quickly, with very little information given. Strange - tells me they're not sure what they've found?

[SkinBasket]

Yea losing a top 3 FS for the year and maybe his career is no big deal. It's not like we have been struggling in pass defense this season or anything.

Maybe he's played like a top 3 FS at times. Other times, not so much, including so far this season. Not sure how you think you're bolstering your argument by pointing out how absolutely dreadful our passing defense has been with Collins in there, but hey, I'm not black so I'll probably never understand.

I think Collins' worth is somewhat overestimated by some is all. Like I said, he's no Reggie White. Hell, he's not even Leroy Butler.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's a big loss. Can it be overcome? I guess. But the injuries are starting to add up again: Neal, Collins, Williams (hopefully back this week). I doubt we'll win the Super Bowl with another rash of injuries like last year.

[pbmax]

Maybe he's played like a top 3 FS at times. Other times, not so much, including so far this season. Not sure how you think you're bolstering your argument by pointing out how absolutely dreadful our passing defense has been with Collins in there, but hey, I'm not black so I'll probably never understand.

I think Collins' worth is somewhat overestimated by some is all. Like I said, he's no Reggie White. Hell, he's not even Leroy Butler.

I am pretty sure he is LeRoy Butler. Less sacks, more speed and coverage of field. And less sacks might have to do mostly with assignment. McCarthy claimed he is on his way to a HoF career. That's a pretty close matchup between the two.

https://twitter.com/#!/jasonjwilde/status/115879825918533634

[Kiwon]

Losing Collins is a big deal for the team. Hopefully, MM, TT, and Capers still have some magic left from last year and can find those players who are ready to step up.

Collins' injury reminds of the Celtics guard Marquis Daniels who jammed his head into another player's chest and was lost for the season.

[mraynrand]

....Celtics guard Marquis Daniels who jammed his head into another player's chest and was lost for the season.

Did he at least make the tackle?

[mmmdk]

Don't sit on peoples head; it's career threatening!

Man, it's doesn't help joking about Nick Collins' injury; it's a big blow. I wish Collins the best. :-(

[SkinBasket]

I wish Collins the best. :-(

I wish Reggie was around to tell him to pray to Jesus he doesn't die and get back on the field like a real man.

[Pugger]

Losing Collins is a big deal for the team. Hopefully, MM, TT, and Capers still have some magic left from last year and can find those players who are ready to step up.

Collins' injury reminds of the Celtics guard Marquis Daniels who jammed his head into another player's chest and was lost for the season.

Did he ever play again? I realize basketball isn't football but I was just wondering...

[Brandon494]

Maybe he's played like a top 3 FS at times. Other times, not so much, including so far this season. Not sure how you think you're bolstering your argument by pointing out how absolutely dreadful our passing defense has been with Collins in there, but hey, I'm not black so I'll probably never understand.

I think Collins' worth is somewhat overestimated by some is all. Like I said, he's no Reggie White. Hell, he's not even Leroy Butler.

So your saying if we lost Clay Matthews for the season it wouldn't really matter because our pass rush has sucked after two games. :bs:

I don't know know what games you have been watching but the past three season Collins has had 17 INTs which is 2nd among FS only behind Ed Reed. Besides Reed there is no other FS in the league I would take over Collins. I think your underestimating our good the guy really is.

[red]

i wonder if he just shattered or crushed a vertebrae. it was so ugly. his neck got compacted then slammed hard to the left

with the way his head snapped he's lucky he didn't sever his spinal cord

if he does make it back next year that's gonna be something he'll never get out of his mind. he did absolutely nothing wrong, it was just a strange freak play that could happen to anyone at anytime, and it almost made him hadi-capable

[Fritz]

For Charlie:

“To each there comes in their lifetime a special moment when they are figuratively tapped on the shoulder and offered the chance to do a very special thing, unique to them and fitted to their talents. What a tragedy if that moment finds them unprepared or unqualified for that which could have been their finest hour.”
― Winston S. Churchill

I think Charlie's going to be literally tapped on the shoulder. "Uh, Charlie, you're in."

[MJZiggy]

i wonder if he just shattered or crushed a vertebrae. it was so ugly. his neck got compacted then slammed hard to the left

with the way his head snapped he's lucky he didn't sever his spinal cord

if he does make it back next year that's gonna be something he'll never get out of his mind. he did absolutely nothing wrong, it was just a strange freak play that could happen to anyone at anytime, and it almost made him hadi-capable

I didn't see it. I just saw him face down on the turf. I just hope he's ok.

[Smidgeon]

Did anyone else catch the passing comment where someone said the reason they were shutting him down might not have even been caused by this particular hit but that they found something else when they went in there to look? It wasn't directly said that way, but when I heard it/read it, it seemed like the implication was there.

[SkinBasket]

So your saying if we lost Clay Matthews for the season it wouldn't really matter because our pass rush has sucked after two games. :bs:

I don't know know what games you have been watching but the past three season Collins has had 17 INTs which is 2nd among FS only behind Ed Reed. Besides Reed there is no other FS in the league I would take over Collins. I think your underestimating our good the guy really is.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Collins in particular has been out of position and misreading responsibilities this season - those are the games I've been watching. I'm not discounting the good he's done previously. I'm being realistic about the effect this has on our defense - now, which I think will be looked back upon as marginal, except by those who will look to blame any failing of our defense, particularly our passing defense, going forward as a result of Collins absence. Our pass defense has been shit with him in there and he wasn't exactly blowing up running plays. Peprah can catch the occasional errant pass almost as well I suspect. I just hope he's better at maintaining his assignments than Collins had been this season.

[gbgary]

i wonder if he just shattered or crushed a vertebrae. it was so ugly. his neck got compacted then slammed hard to the left

with the way his head snapped he's lucky he didn't sever his spinal cord

if he does make it back next year that's gonna be something he'll never get out of his mind. he did absolutely nothing wrong, it was just a strange freak play that could happen to anyone at anytime, and it almost made him hadi-capable


they said nothing was broken.

[pbmax]

Did anyone else catch the passing comment where someone said the reason they were shutting him down might not have even been caused by this particular hit but that they found something else when they went in there to look? It wasn't directly said that way, but when I heard it/read it, it seemed like the implication was there.

Have a link to that quote, or maybe the site it was on?

[Joemailman]

Maybe this:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/130143133.html

Collins' agent, Alan Herman, said specifics of the injury aren't known, but it appears to be disc-related. He said too much is unknown to even confirm that, although he stated categorically Collins did not have a spinal cord injury or a broken neck.

Herman said he planned to bring Collins to New York to see a spinal specialist, who will determine the best course of action. Nobody was hinting that the injury could be career-ending, but that possibility always exists with something as delicate as a neck injury.

"We don't know if it's an old injury or a new one," Herman said. "A lot of times a player is injured and it's disguised until he suffers another one. Did he have an injury that was exacerbated? We'll find that out."

Herman said he was certain the injury was not spinal stenosis, an abnormal narrowing of the spinal column. Former Packers Terrence Murphy and Tim Lewis were both forced to retire in the prime of their careers because of the condition.

[Kiwon]

Did he ever play again? I realize basketball isn't football but I was just wondering...

From July 25...."According to agent Mark Bartelstein, Marquis Daniels has resumed working out after spinal surgery.Pretty amazing stuff considering the scary moment on the court just six months ago. Daniels bruised his spinal cord against the Orlando Magic back in February and was diagnosed with spinal stenosis, but it appears that he's healing nicely and remains determined to play in the NBA next season. He should be able to find a spot on the bench of some club, but he'll likely have to settle for the veteran's minimum in an effort to prove his health."

Here's the YouTube of his injury. It didn't look like much of hit but the neck is a very sensitive area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLPTJJV3QYg

[bobblehead]

But why does it have to happen to the really good ones?

Like Jeremy Thompson...or do we just remember the really good ones more.

[Partial]

Like Jeremy Thompson...or do we just remember the really good ones more.

All signs pointed to him being soft, but a freakishly good athlete. Too bad. Loaded with potential. The first Teddy T trade up. Let's hope slick pick thirty six nick can get healthy and return.

[Upnorth]

This is a big loss for our D, especially with our banged up Dline we need a strong secondary. Is it just me or are we getting freakishly high number of injuries again?

[Smidgeon]

Have a link to that quote, or maybe the site it was on?


Maybe this:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/130143133.html

Collins' agent, Alan Herman, said specifics of the injury aren't known, but it appears to be disc-related. He said too much is unknown to even confirm that, although he stated categorically Collins did not have a spinal cord injury or a broken neck.

Herman said he planned to bring Collins to New York to see a spinal specialist, who will determine the best course of action. Nobody was hinting that the injury could be career-ending, but that possibility always exists with something as delicate as a neck injury.

"We don't know if it's an old injury or a new one," Herman said. "A lot of times a player is injured and it's disguised until he suffers another one. Did he have an injury that was exacerbated? We'll find that out."

Herman said he was certain the injury was not spinal stenosis, an abnormal narrowing of the spinal column. Former Packers Terrence Murphy and Tim Lewis were both forced to retire in the prime of their careers because of the condition.

That's the one.

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is a big loss for our D, especially with our banged up Dline we need a strong secondary. Is it just me or are we getting freakishly high number of injuries again?

Patler mentioned that really you can just take last year's safeties and substitute Burnett for Collins. That doesn't seem so tragic, since Burnett has played well. But you can't compare last year to this. Maybe the front 7 will improve, but its not looking like we have much pass rush this season.

You have to say that we just swapped Nick Collins for Charlie Peprah. On a team that is having limited success pressuring the passer, that is a big dropoff.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He was missed today. Peprah was exposed pretty good. I know I felt like Collins struggled in week one, better in week two. But teams are going to go after Peprah. Collins is a playmaker and teams don't go at him a lot. Peprah is a different story. He's going to need to make some plays for teams not to key on him.

[vince]

He was missed today. Peprah was exposed pretty good. I know I felt like Collins struggled in week one, better in week two. But teams are going to go after Peprah. Collins is a playmaker and teams don't go at him a lot. Peprah is a different story. He's going to need to make some plays for teams not to key on him.
I missed the first half but saw the 2nd. Peprah didn't look great on the TD after the fumble. Neither did Burnett or Shields. He's a reliable tackler but didn't look it on that play. He's no Nick Collins obviously, but I think the safeties can play as well as they did last year as the year goes on, which was good enough. Peprah wasn't perfect then either, particularly in deep coverage. Unlike some of the corners that were fighting for roster spots in the preseason, I am looking forward to seeing a bit of MD Jennings play. He obviously has no experience, but I think he may have some game.

There's still a lot of work to do on the defensive side of the ball obviously, but I think the inside linebackers are where teams can exploit the Packers in the passing game as much or more than Peprah or anyone else.

I'll have to review the game to see who else was playing and who wasn't, but I was surprised to see Woodson outside in coverage for most all of the 2nd half. When there was a defensive back blitzing, I saw Bush. If he has to be in the game, I'd prefer they continue to hide him by rushing him, but they must have been in dime a lot. The thing about Bush is he's going to give you everything he's got at least. I don't think anyone tries harder. It's a good attribute for the team as long as he's chasing a QB or a punt returner.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He's no Nick Collins obviously, but I think the safeties can play as well as they did last year as the year goes on, which was good enough. Peprah wasn't perfect then either, particularly in deep coverage. Unlike some of the corners that were fighting for roster spots in the preseason, I am looking forward to seeing a bit of MD Jennings play. He obviously has no experience, but I think he may have some game.

I hear what you are saying in a way. Burnett's playing lights out. It's easy to get excited about him. I even think he has the ability to play the role Collins did, but the other side of the equation is that Peprah has to play as well as last year. That's no given. There's a reason he's bounced around the league. He might have played his best ball last year, and we're in for some tough times out of his spot. Seldom does something work like it should. It's easy to say that we won with Walden, Peprah, Wilson last year, so why not this year? But I think the defensive struggles might be legit. Mostly encourgaging today though. Of course, our offense looks so potentially dynamic (and they haven't hit on all cylinders quite yet), our return game improved, doesn't feel like Crosby will miss a kick, etc., so it might not matter.

[vince]

I hear what you are saying in a way. Burnett's playing lights out. It's easy to get excited about him. I even think he has the ability to play the role Collins did, but the other side of the equation is that Peprah has to play as well as last year. That's no given. There's a reason he's bounced around the league. He might have played his best ball last year, and we're in for some tough times out of his spot. Seldom does something work like it should. It's easy to say that we won with Walden, Peprah, Wilson last year, so why not this year? But I think the defensive struggles might be legit. Mostly encourgaging today though. Of course, our offense looks so potentially dynamic (and they haven't hit on all cylinders quite yet), our return game improved, doesn't feel like Crosby will miss a kick, etc., so it might not matter.
Yeah. Peprah has to be able to tackle and not get abused in coverage. He'll give up some completions, and some of them will be scores, but that's what he did last year and I do think he's good enough to not get abused every time he's thrown at. He plays OK for the most part (with that notable exception today in the 2nd half) when the play's in front of him. When he has to turn and run with someone, he's generally in trouble.

[mmmdk]

Peprah is no Collins but I believe he'll rebound. I hope that Collins returns to form the best safety duo, with Burnett, in the NFL.

[Joemailman]

The more that Peprah can play close to the line, with Burnett handling the deep coverage, the better they'll be.

Peprah reminds me of a TV show:

http://www.freeringtonesfyi.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/lost-in-space-tv-show.jpg

[ThunderDan]

The more that Peprah can play close to the line, with Burnett handling the deep coverage, the better they'll be.

Peprah reminds me of a TV show:

http://www.freeringtonesfyi.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/lost-in-space-tv-show.jpg


That's Pat Lee's nickname after this preseason.

[pbmax]

Peprah will need time as his game is likely to have suffered more than most due to the odd and short offseason. He is positioning and tackling. He didn't get a lot of looks in the offseason and he didn't do much tackling in camp. Plus, its a new backfield partner.

He looks just like Hawk, Bishop and Collins did in Week 1.

I think Peprah stays in the back end though for reasons I don't quite understand. He was deep for most of the year last year.

[Partial]

Any updates on this? Tyler Dunne has an article up on JSO about how he's been in the secondary meetings. Don't IR guys normally leave? I get he's not IR'd officially yet, but it's all but a formality at this point it seems. Any update on his prognosis?

[pbmax]

McGinn Tweeted that Thompson has done this before, waited until he wanted, or had, to make a move. Or they simply could be waiting for all the info from the specialists to come in. The latter might represent Collins hope he could return sooner.

[vince]

JS noted yesterday or the day before that Underwood was suspended for two games by the league. It's total speculation, but I think there's a chance the Packers may have requested that a judgement be handed down on him by the league because they want to sign him, but not until he's eligible for reinstatement.

[Patler]

There is no reason to put Collins on IR until you have decided who to sign for his roster spot, and there is a very good reason not to just leave the roster spot open. Unless it has changed in the new CBA:


An otherwise eligible player may be a practice squad player for a third season only if the Club by which he is employed that season has at least 53 players on its Active/Inactive List during the entire period of his employment.The Packers don't currently have anyone who falls into that category, but if they had an open roster spot then decided that wanted to sign a third season guy to the PS they would have to first fill the 53 man roster spot.

[Patler]

JS noted yesterday or the day before that Underwood was suspended for two games by the league. It's total speculation, but I think there's a chance the Packers may have requested that a judgement be handed down on him by the league because they want to sign him, but not until he's eligible for reinstatement.

I think it is just as likely that they are concerned with whether or not they should sign an OL due to the Bulaga injury, or a DL due to Neil's unavailablity. They probably wanted to see how Picket held up after injuring his foot in the 2nd game. They are skating on the edge at OL & DL, but could still cover at safety by using Woodson there as they did this week, or even Bush who has practiced there a lot. They have options on their roster for safety, they don't for OL and DL. Another "out for a week" injury at OL or DL puts them in a bind. Not as much at safety.

[pbmax]

JS noted yesterday or the day before that Underwood was suspended for two games by the league. It's total speculation, but I think there's a chance the Packers may have requested that a judgement be handed down on him by the league because they want to sign him, but not until he's eligible for reinstatement.

It wasn't just Underwood who had his case adjudicated. All eight of the players exposed to the Personal Conduct Policy during the lockout had their punishments handed out in the last week. Two were not suspended.

[rbaloha1]

Trust Peprah will fix tackling and angle issue. MB may be capable of performing some of Collins big plays.

[vince]

It wasn't just Underwood who had his case adjudicated. All eight of the players exposed to the Personal Conduct Policy during the lockout had their punishments handed out in the last week. Two were not suspended.
Got it. That does make a difference... Thanks PB.

[Guiness]

I can't believe we still know nothing more about this injury.

I see So'oto was a full participant this week. Look forward to seeing a bit of him on the field. Lee is listed as 'did not practice'. I missed that, what happened to him now?

[pbmax]

Lee had an issue with his back according to Twitter but was back today, I believe, as was Matthews.

Expectation is that So'oto is still a ways a way from being on the game day roster since he hasn't had any live snaps for awhile. Zombo is scheduled to get his next X-Ray this week and he feels positive about it.

[MJZiggy]

Good god, we're like "Packers' Hospital" here. Or, like "One Knee to Give" or something.

[Partial]

Silverstein responded to a guy on twitter asking why Collins is in meetings saying he's not on IR. No more info beyond that.

[Teamcheez1]

Now reported by ESPN that Collins had surgery to repair a herniated disc in his neck. They say six months to determine if he can resume his NFL career.

I wish him the best, but would expect us to draft a new safety to replace him.

[red]

Now reported by ESPN that Collins had surgery to repair a herniated disc in his neck. They say six months to determine if he can resume his NFL career.

I wish him the best, but would expect us to draft a new safety to replace him.

damnit

well that doesn't sound very promising does it?

sounds like the same thing peyton is going through

[Lurker64]

sounds like the same thing peyton is going through

It's pretty much the same thing that Peyton had, except in Collins's case it was a single fusion and for Peyton I think it was a multiple fusion. Also, Collins has like 11 months to recover before next season, Peyton got the surgery like a week before the season opener.

[Guiness]

Now reported by ESPN that Collins had surgery to repair a herniated disc in his neck. They say six months to determine if he can resume his NFL career.

I wish him the best, but would expect us to draft a new safety to replace him.

Was this on television? I'm not seeing report of this anywhere.

[Teamcheez1]

Was this on television? I'm not seeing report of this anywhere.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7039846/nick-collins-green-bay-packers-surgery-neck-source-says

[rbaloha1]

Appears career ending based on this recent news. Did Sterling have a similar type injury?

Obviously a huge setback. However the draft always has ball hawking safeties that can be found in rounds 2-3.

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/130873233.html

[Guiness]

Hope it turns out well. We'll see if he plays again, but that's obviously far from the immediate concern.

Article does say that the injury was solely from the tackle. Crazy - it sure didn't look that bad, and this is his only injury of any significance during his NFL career, is it not?

[red]

Hope it turns out well. We'll see if he plays again, but that's obviously far from the immediate concern.

Article does say that the injury was solely from the tackle. Crazy - it sure didn't look that bad, and this is his only injury of any significance during his NFL career, is it not?

i think so. just like sharpe, one tough SOB that has a freak injury screw him for good

[red]

Appears career ending based on this recent news. Did Sterling have a similar type injury?

Obviously a huge setback. However the draft always has ball hawking safeties that can be found in rounds 2-3.

sharpe had his disks fused, i remember that was the first time i ever heard of that. but he had that spinal thinning thing too, and thats what really ended him.. i think after the disk fuse was when sharpe started wearing that strap from his helmet to his back, so he still played after it. i think

and if good ballhawking safeties were abundant then everyone would have them, and only 3 or 4 actually do

it would be a huge loss imo

[Joemailman]

Pretty sure Sharpe never played again after having the top 2 vertebrae fused. He had an unusual loosening of the vertebrae. I'm not sure I'd try to draw too many comparisons between Sharpe's injury and Collins'. Sharpe's was a more severe injury, and was necessary even if he was not to play football again.

[Lurker64]

sharpe had his disks fused, i remember that was the first time i ever heard of that. but he had that spinal thinning thing too, and thats what really ended him.. i think after the disk fuse was when sharpe started wearing that strap from his helmet to his back, so he still played after it.

Yeah, really working in Collins's favor is that he has no prior history of Spinal Stenosis. If he had Spinal Stenosis, and had to have this surgery, then that would be it for his career. Since he didn't, there's hope.

[pbmax]

Now reported by ESPN that Collins had surgery to repair a herniated disc in his neck. They say six months to determine if he can resume his NFL career.

I wish him the best, but would expect us to draft a new safety to replace him.

I cannot stand misinformation. Didn't someone report that it WASN'T a disc problem the week after he got hurt?

[Fosco33]

Heard he went to hospital of special surgery in NYC. HSS is a great facility. Hope the healing process goes well and he's able to consider a return to football.

[mraynrand]

Heard he went to hospital of special surgery in NYC. HSS is a great facility. Hope the healing process goes well and he's able to consider a return to football.


Some ortho docs call it the Hospital for Sound Sleep because it gets a lot less traffic than some of the major trauma centers where orthopods go for residency and fellowships. Danger is that Collins might be getting 'boutique' care by some fancy schmanzy doc and not by someone who does tons of these cases. (this is just a guess, I'l check on the actual doc).

But for an example, I'll give you Kellen Winslow, who went to the Cleveland Clinic when he broke his leg. He should have gone to Metro, which is a level 1 trauma center and repairs shit like he had all the time - meanwhile, some of the guys at the Clinic maybe see one of those cases a year.

[unsolicited advice] Helpful tip - find the nearest level 1 trauma center in your area - write down the name and address. If you or anyone you care about gets in a serious accident, tell them to take you/them there. Keep the address and a request to be sent there in your car, in your wallet. Don't let yourself end up in a rinky-dink level 2 center or worse. Your life may depend on it. Seriously. [/unsolicited advice]

[pbmax]

His doctor's name was given as Dr. Cannisa, according to Herman in Silverstein's article. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/130873233.html

According to Herman, a narrowing of the spinal column could still occur as a result of the surgery. I am guessing due first to inflammation and then to scar tissue. If that happens, he will be hard pressed to resume his career.

But it seems that the disc was in bad enough shape that he would not have been able to play without the surgery, regardless of rehab or other treatments.

[MJZiggy]

Some ortho docs call it the Hospital for Sound Sleep because it gets a lot less traffic than some of the major trauma centers where orthopods go for residency and fellowships. Danger is that Collins might be getting 'boutique' care by some fancy schmanzy doc and not by someone who does tons of these cases. (this is just a guess, I'l check on the actual doc).

But for an example, I'll give you Kellen Winslow, who went to the Cleveland Clinic when he broke his leg. He should have gone to Metro, which is a level 1 trauma center and repairs shit like he had all the time - meanwhile, some of the guys at the Clinic maybe see one of those cases a year.

[unsolicited advice] Helpful tip - find the nearest level 1 trauma center in your area - write down the name and address. If you or anyone you care about gets in a serious accident, tell them to take you/them there. Keep the address and a request to be sent there in your car, in your wallet. Don't let yourself end up in a rinky-dink level 2 center or worse. Your life may depend on it. Seriously. [/unsolicited advice]

Great. I'd have to go all the way up to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. Then they have to figure out the time factor in getting me there. What if the local hospital isn't even on the trauma center list???

[hoosier]

Great. I'd have to go all the way up to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. Then they have to figure out the time factor in getting me there. What if the local hospital isn't even on the trauma center list???

Don't you live in the district? Washington Hospital Center--or Children's.

[MJZiggy]

Children's was on the list for pediatric. WHC was not. Suburban in Bethesda was the nearest Level 2.

[Fosco33]

I've worked for 15 hospitals as a consultant. My advice - check hospitalcompare for your area (and also check your insurance coverage/network). Have to consider quality and value. Some trauma ones are literally in the ghetto.

As far as HSS, there ranked top for ortho - but not sure about neuro.

Zig - I'd recommend Inova or VHC - worth a little drive for routine stuff.

[MJZiggy]

I'd do Inova for routine stuff, but if the shit hits the fan, I'm probably best at Suburban. It's closer and not in the ghetto. :)