Does The End Justify The Means?

[Old School]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?

My frame of reference for thinking about thiss is two similar baseball plays.

Last year, Alex Ridriguiz of the Yankees dramatically feigned being hit by a pitch when replay showed the ball hit the knob of his bat. He was awarded first base. When questioned after the game, Alex without hesitation said, "Whatever it takes to win".

Last week Darwin Barney of the Cubs was hit by a pitch. The ball rolled into fair territory, and the catcher picked it up and tagged Barney. The ump ruled the ball hit Barney's bat and called him out. When Barney was asked why he didn't put on a big act because replay showed he was hit, he replied, "I didn't want to disrespect the game."

Back to football; It seems to me that there needs to be a rule that would make it unprofitable for a player to fake an injury in a goal line situation.
1. Allow only that player to be substituted for?
2. Require the player to remain out of the game for the rest of that series or more?
3. Charge a timeout like after the two minute warning?
4. See to it the player has a valid reason to leave the game with an injury when he returns? ( I remember Super Bowl I and how the Packers handled Fred Williamson's cheap shot on Boyd Dowler.)
5. Do nothing because cheating to get ahead is acceptable in our society?
What do the rest of you think?

[MadScientist]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?

My frame of reference for thinking about thiss is two similar baseball plays.

Last year, Alex Ridriguiz of the Yankees dramatically feigned being hit by a pitch when replay showed the ball hit the knob of his bat. He was awarded first base. When questioned after the game, Alex without hesitation said, "Whatever it takes to win".

Last week Darwin Barney of the Cubs was hit by a pitch. The ball rolled into fair territory, and the catcher picked it up and tagged Barney. The ump ruled the ball hit Barney's bat and called him out. When Barney was asked why he didn't put on a big act because replay showed he was hit, he replied, "I didn't want to disrespect the game."

Back to football; It seems to me that there needs to be a rule that would make it unprofitable for a player to fake an injury in a goal line situation.
1. Allow only that player to be substituted for?
2. Require the player to remain out of the game for the rest of that series or more?
3. Charge a timeout like after the two minute warning?
4. See to it the player has a valid reason to leave the game with an injury when he returns? ( I remember Super Bowl I and how the Packers handled Fred Williamson's cheap shot on Boyd Dowler.)
5. Do nothing because cheating to get ahead is acceptable in our society?
What do the rest of you think?

Rodriguez is a jerk, Barney was a fool (unless the ball hit is hand while attempting a swing, in which case you need to know the special rules).

As for your list, I would add #1 (with the caveat that if the offense substitutes, the defense can as well) and #2 (specifically stated that the player can't return until there is a change of possession). #3 is too harsh for legit injuries, and you can't prove otherwise. With the rash of injuries these days, nobody would have TO's left at the end of the game. 4 is a judgment call that is too much burden to place on the refs.

[sharpe1027]

1) If your team has an injury on defense, you should not be allowed to make an additional substitution (other than the injured player) unless the offense also substitutes players or you call a timeout.

2) Any injury that results in a stoppage of play must be reviewed by an league/independent doctor before being allowed to return to the field of play. This would mean that the team and player know they will be working with someone outside of the organization. It would slow down the process and result in players being kept out longer while they wait on this review.

[pbmax]

Wasn't that Jeter who went to first after the ball might have grazed him?

Extension of rule that costs the team a timeout for injury is fine by me. But teams have been pulling this since the 1950's (recorded and admitted by a Notre Dame player), so its gong to continue.

As for the ethics, some believe their personal code will not allow such behavior, but in a team over all atmosphere like football, those players will not constitute the majority of the rosters. Winning is everything after all.

Edit: Last year, at least on this one occasion, it was Jeter: http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2010/09/derek_jeter_adm.html

[mraynrand]

I think every injury play should be extensively reviewed in the booth

[Old School]

PB-Thanx for the correction. I misremembered. I don't follow the American League.

Mad -Barney didn't swing. He was backing up. Whether or not he is a fool once again depends on personal values.

[run pMc]

Oh, I think Goodell and Co. will eventually sort this out and decide to levy fines for faking injuries.
That's kind of his way of handling things...a league wide memo and arbitrary issuance of fines.

Even with a stoppage, I think in the heart of the game it's hard to determine if an injury is real or not. A "false positive" would be insulting to the player, the player's family, and the team...not to mention cause an outcry by fans and conspiracy theorists alike.

The faked injury by the Giants was pretty blatant and should be mentioned to teams/players. It's too simple of a way to derail a no-huddle offense.

Also -- I tend to fall into the camp that if you disrespect the game, the game (and its fans) will disrespect you. ARod might be a HoF worthy baseball talent, but he's also a HoF jackass...he's earned that.

[mmmdk]

I say: let congress decide...let them be the mentors as they're the masters of collusion. Banana Republicans! :lol:

[red]

i hate the fact that it happens and i would love something to be done about it

but how?

say a guy goes down and says he has a leg cramp. trainer comes out, stretches him out for a few minutes, lets the team get a breather and regroup. then in a play or two the player comes back in. how in the world would it be possible to know if he really had a cramp or not?

[MadScientist]

i hate the fact that it happens and i would love something to be done about it

but how?

say a guy goes down and says he has a leg cramp. trainer comes out, stretches him out for a few minutes, lets the team get a breather and regroup. then in a play or two the player comes back in. how in the world would it be possible to know if he really had a cramp or not?

With the suggested changes, he would not be allowed to come back in until there was a possession change. That would be a reasonable price to pay for stopping the game. Nobody has to make any determinations, just follow the rules. It won't stop the fake injuries, just discourage them.

[mraynrand]

With the suggested changes, he would not be allowed to come back in until there was a possession change.

That's true only if he's a two-way player.

[pbmax]

That's true only if he's a two-way player.

Always the monkey in the wrench with you. :)

[channtheman]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

[red]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

i was thinking the same exact thing

[mmmdk]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

...so you're saying Bert can come back?

[pbmax]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

Sure, but does the DC want to run the risk of a player who would not otherwise play to be in the for one down just to get a free timeout? He can't just go out there and fall down like he injured himself while jogging on the field.

Unless he's a former soccer player.

[sharpe1027]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

I doubt that anyone would play scrub players "just in case" they need to fake an injury. It is more likely that the guy they want to sub would fake the injury (e.g., if they are in nickel and need another LBer, than the 3rd DB magically gets hurt and a LBer comes in....)

[AtlPackFan]

I think every injury play should be extensively reviewed in the booth

...and if the replay booth decides the player was faking an injury, allow the other team to beat the player until he IS injured!

[Smeefers]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?

My frame of reference for thinking about thiss is two similar baseball plays.

Last year, Alex Ridriguiz of the Yankees dramatically feigned being hit by a pitch when replay showed the ball hit the knob of his bat. He was awarded first base. When questioned after the game, Alex without hesitation said, "Whatever it takes to win".

Last week Darwin Barney of the Cubs was hit by a pitch. The ball rolled into fair territory, and the catcher picked it up and tagged Barney. The ump ruled the ball hit Barney's bat and called him out. When Barney was asked why he didn't put on a big act because replay showed he was hit, he replied, "I didn't want to disrespect the game."

Back to football; It seems to me that there needs to be a rule that would make it unprofitable for a player to fake an injury in a goal line situation.
1. Allow only that player to be substituted for?
2. Require the player to remain out of the game for the rest of that series or more?
3. Charge a timeout like after the two minute warning?
4. See to it the player has a valid reason to leave the game with an injury when he returns? ( I remember Super Bowl I and how the Packers handled Fred Williamson's cheap shot on Boyd Dowler.)
5. Do nothing because cheating to get ahead is acceptable in our society?
What do the rest of you think?

You know what I was saying to myself just the other day? Man I wish Football had more rules. There is positively not enough rules in football and every time they add new ones it adds to the game, not takes away from it.

[Guiness]

I doubt that anyone would play scrub players "just in case" they need to fake an injury. It is more likely that the guy they want to sub would fake the injury (e.g., if they are in nickel and need another LBer, than the 3rd DB magically gets hurt and a LBer comes in....)

Exactly. Do you want that guy out there, even for one play?

MM sees a scrub LB come in that that is going to take a fall in case they need it, and you can be sure they're going to be running the next play right at him!

[Scott Campbell]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?


A couple of phantom pass interference calls would clear that right up.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe we've been looking at this the wrong way. They could make the no-huddle illegal except in the final five-minutes of the half/game.

[Fritz]

The allusion to soccer is a good one. I love the game they call football in Europe - but I much prefer watching the women's game, because not only do they have hot bodies, the men have ruined their game with the ghey fake injuries. They're so obviously fake, so wussish, that I despise those so-and-so's. They absolutely wreck the game, take away any semblance that it's real competition - they're pussing their way to an advantage. So, so unmanly.

You let the Giants openly laugh and get away with one, it'll catch on and as soon as a coach wants his team to have a break he'll instruct player X to go down with an "injury." Next thing you know there are even more game stoppages, more television commercials, more gamesmanship, and soon disease breaks out all over the world. This will undermine an already-shaky world economy, and soon starvation will run rampant in heretofore prosperous countries. There will be a run on natural resources, a war will break out, and a desperate small country or group of economic terrorists will drop a nuclear bomb. The US will retaliate, which will cause Pakistan and Russia to retaliate, and one fine Sunday around noon instead of watching kickoff you'll be watching a mushroom cloud blossoming over your hometown.

Something must be done.

[pbmax]

The allusion to soccer is a good one. I love the game they call football in Europe - but I much prefer watching the women's game, because not only do they have hot bodies, the men have ruined their game with the ghey fake injuries. They're so obviously fake, so wussish, that I despise those so-and-so's. They absolutely wreck the game, take away any semblance that it's real competition - they're pussing their way to an advantage. So, so unmanly.

You let the Giants openly laugh and get away with one, it'll catch on and as soon as a coach wants his team to have a break he'll instruct player X to go down with an "injury." Next thing you know there are even more game stoppages, more television commercials, more gamesmanship, and soon disease breaks out all over the world. This will undermine an already-shaky world economy, and soon starvation will run rampant in heretofore prosperous countries. There will be a run on natural resources, a war will break out, and a desperate small country or group of economic terrorists will drop a nuclear bomb. The US will retaliate, which will cause Pakistan and Russia to retaliate, and one fine Sunday around noon instead of watching kickoff you'll be watching a mushroom cloud blossoming over your hometown.

Something must be done.

Just let me know how I can blame the NCAA for this and I will get to work on the radio.

[Fritz]

The NCAA is behind everything.

They hired Oswald, then Ruby. Didn't you know that?

[RashanGary]

Should the catchers stop pulling their glove quickly back over the plate a little to make it look more like a strike?

Should defensive players stop pointing at the OL when they knew they jumped first?

Should DL stop exaggerating the hold after they were held?

Should QB's stop lying on the turf longer after a possible late hit?

Should WR's stop pushing off while making it look like they aren't?


Faking injury is a bit far, but hey, it's effective. No different than pissing off a huge guy, then he gets out of the car, road raging, you step out with a small bat hidden behind your leg and destroy his knee. Bigger is nice. Better feels good. Smarter wins.

[bobblehead]

Rodriguez is a jerk, Barney was a fool (unless the ball hit is hand while attempting a swing, in which case you need to know the special rules).

As for your list, I would add #1 (with the caveat that if the offense substitutes, the defense can as well) and #2 (specifically stated that the player can't return until there is a change of possession). #3 is too harsh for legit injuries, and you can't prove otherwise. With the rash of injuries these days, nobody would have TO's left at the end of the game. 4 is a judgment call that is too much burden to place on the refs.

And there it is. I have met both ARod (baseball) and Jeter. Jeter is a prick. ARod is a nice guy. When that shit happened and the media chortled it up I said "if it had been ARod people would say he was a cheater. ARod tried to swat the ball out of the first basemans hand during a tag. The media crucified him. Man the media drives perceptions sometimes.

[MadtownPacker]

Faking injury is a bit far, but hey, it's effective. No different than pissing off a huge guy, then he gets out of the car, road raging, you step out with a small bat hidden behind your leg and destroy his knee. Bigger is nice. Better feels good. Smarter wins.
So you got away with this shit? Fucking loony.

But on to the subject, winning by being a lil bitch taints the victory IMO.

[bobblehead]

Also -- I tend to fall into the camp that if you disrespect the game, the game (and its fans) will disrespect you. ARod might be a HoF worthy baseball talent, but he's also a HoF jackass...he's earned that.

See my post above. Granted my time was about an hour around each guy. Jeter wouldn't sign an autograph, while ARod was signing about 3 a minute while trying to play blackjack. Don't believe everything you read.

[bobblehead]

You know what I was saying to myself just the other day? Man I wish Football had more rules. There is positively not enough rules in football and every time they add new ones it adds to the game, not takes away from it.

In honesty this should have

/thread

[RashanGary]

So you got away with this shit? Fucking loony.

But on to the subject, winning by being a lil bitch taints the victory IMO.


No, but I used to carry a bat in my car, just in case. The point is, there is this obsession with being flat out better than people, this pride/ego that comes with beating people, head-on, at their game. Does MM go out and pass every play against the best pass rushers to prove he can man up? Does AR stand in and take shots from Suh to prove he is a man? Is that what it's about, manning up, proving your a tougher guy? If so, keep it up. Whatever. I just do what it takes.

There is something exciting about dominance, something that sort of brings awe, but at the end of the day, I think people attach more to it than it deserves.

People who think they're classier, "better" human beings. . . . I find it interesting because what does it all add up to when we die? Is there a rule of god that you telegraph your intentions in the heat of battle to be a better man? Is there a rule that you set effectiveness aside to follow rules? ? ? ? ? I don't know. . . . Does a Tiger warn the hog he's going to drop from the tree? Does the human warn the buffalo before he raises up from behind a hill with a spear? Winning, being stealthy. . . It's almost an instinct. Pride, arrogance, moral superiority. . . . . The only result of those judgements is to make us feel better about ourselves and look down on other people. . . . At the end of hte day, when human competitiveness is at it's highest, effectiveness comes to the forefront, above all else. Is football the same as eating? Logically, no. In the heat of hte moment, are emotions so heightened that it could be comparable on that level? I say, "yes."

Now, if the end result of an unexpected move is that a person suffers for your gain with no purpose, with no heat of battle instinct. . . . just flat out ruthless disregard. . . . . I tend to make a mental note not to deal with said person. But when it's time to go it's time to go and sometimes just making it happen takes over in the moment. It's not even a thought, to be better, classier, more composed. It's just act, the moment rules.

And when you go to judge people ask yourself this, "have you walked a day in their shoes?" "Have you experienced what they have experienced?" If the answer to that question is, "I don't know", you might be able to look a little deeper. Class, calm, rationality in the moment. . . . . People who are insecure usually lack those things. They tend to be more defensive, backs against the wall a little. Before you judge other people, consider what motivates them. Consider what might cause them to respond differently.

I'm sure it makes you feel good to call these guys names. At the end of the day, they're just people, just like you. God doesn't put you on a pedestal. You were not born better, are not a better person. Have an open mind, sometimes things are deeper than the surface, than the impression.

Class, outward impression. . . . Those are things that can have multiple purposes to a person, not all as classy and superior as they seem. A true superior person, does what's right when no one is looking. A true superior person does not wrong people at all, has no regrets. . . . . I've yet to meet one.

[pbmax]

See my post above. Granted my time was about an hour around each guy. Jeter wouldn't sign an autograph, while ARod was signing about 3 a minute while trying to play blackjack. Don't believe everything you read.

Was that the only thing? Because signing autographs for people I don't know while I am trying to do something else would leave me frustrated as well. I understand Jeter in this case better than ARod.

[Guiness]

No, but snip

Channeling your inner Woody, are you? No way Mad reads that!

BTW Whenever anyone starts off by saying, 'No, but...' I pretty much disregard everything that comes after.

[Guiness]

I watched that clip, and it's terrible. I think those guys should be fined. If a guy can be fined for what he does on his own time because it hurts the NFL's image, than this qualifies in that category.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/deon-grant-giants-fake-injury-rams_n_970957.html

They look like they forgot who's turn it was to fake the injury.

[channtheman]

No, but I used to carry a bat in my car, just in case. The point is, there is this obsession with being flat out better than people, this pride/ego that comes with beating people, head-on, at their game. Does MM go out and pass every play against the best pass rushers to prove he can man up? Does AR stand in and take shots from Suh to prove he is a man? Is that what it's about, manning up, proving your a tougher guy? If so, keep it up. Whatever. I just do what it takes.

There is something exciting about dominance, something that sort of brings awe, but at the end of the day, I think people attach more to it than it deserves.

People who think they're classier, "better" human beings. . . . I find it interesting because what does it all add up to when we die? Is there a rule of god that you telegraph your intentions in the heat of battle to be a better man? Is there a rule that you set effectiveness aside to follow rules? ? ? ? ? I don't know. . . . Does a Tiger warn the hog he's going to drop from the tree? Does the human warn the buffalo before he raises up from behind a hill with a spear? Winning, being stealthy. . . It's almost an instinct. Pride, arrogance, moral superiority. . . . . The only result of those judgements is to make us feel better about ourselves and look down on other people. . . . At the end of hte day, when human competitiveness is at it's highest, effectiveness comes to the forefront, above all else. Is football the same as eating? Logically, no. In the heat of hte moment, are emotions so heightened that it could be comparable on that level? I say, "yes."

Now, if the end result of an unexpected move is that a person suffers for your gain with no purpose, with no heat of battle instinct. . . . just flat out ruthless disregard. . . . . I tend to make a mental note not to deal with said person. But when it's time to go it's time to go and sometimes just making it happen takes over in the moment. It's not even a thought, to be better, classier, more composed. It's just act, the moment rules.

And when you go to judge people ask yourself this, "have you walked a day in their shoes?" "Have you experienced what they have experienced?" If the answer to that question is, "I don't know", you might be able to look a little deeper. Class, calm, rationality in the moment. . . . . People who are insecure usually lack those things. They tend to be more defensive, backs against the wall a little. Before you judge other people, consider what motivates them. Consider what might cause them to respond differently.

I'm sure it makes you feel good to call these guys names. At the end of the day, they're just people, just like you. God doesn't put you on a pedestal. You were not born better, are not a better person. Have an open mind, sometimes things are deeper than the surface, than the impression.

Class, outward impression. . . . Those are things that can have multiple purposes to a person, not all as classy and superior as they seem. A true superior person, does what's right when no one is looking. A true superior person does not wrong people at all, has no regrets. . . . . I've yet to meet one.

Holy fuck we're just talking about a faked injury.

[wootah]

Sure, but does the DC want to run the risk of a player who would not otherwise play to be in the for one down just to get a free timeout? He can't just go out there and fall down like he injured himself while jogging on the field.

Unless he's a former soccer player.

Just let one of your D-linemen 'trip' and fall on the scrub's ankle. That should do the trick.
BTW, what's with all the soccer hate PB?

http://strackattack.com/gifs/Man%20U%20Dive.gif

It's "the beautiful game", a battle between gentlemen, refined in the 19th century by the highest level of British scholars. :wink:

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/weekendwarrior91104/SoccerFlop.gif

Lack of fair play will always exist. I coach a soccer team of 12 to 14 year olds & last weekend we were down 1-2 at halftime against an inferior team. Literally from the first minute of the second half, the coach of opposing team was telling his guys to delay the game as much as possible, meaning to wait as long as possible for each throw-in, free kick or corner kick. When the ball went out on the left side of the pitch, he called for the player the furthest away on the right side to slowly walk over and perform the throw-in. It was insane. The game ended 1-2 and they celebrated like they won the world cup.

I'm talking about youth sports at the very lowest level here. How should we be surprised when it happens in a situation where millions of $ are on the line?

[Fritz]

No, but I used to carry a bat in my car, just in case. The point is, there is this obsession with being flat out better than people, this pride/ego that comes with beating people, head-on, at their game. Does MM go out and pass every play against the best pass rushers to prove he can man up? Does AR stand in and take shots from Suh to prove he is a man? Is that what it's about, manning up, proving your a tougher guy? If so, keep it up. Whatever. I just do what it takes.

There is something exciting about dominance, something that sort of brings awe, but at the end of the day, I think people attach more to it than it deserves.




Class, outward impression. . . . Those are things that can have multiple purposes to a person, not all as classy and superior as they seem. A true superior person, does what's right when no one is looking. A true superior person does not wrong people at all, has no regrets. . . . . I've yet to meet one.

Hey, that's what your mother said to me when I finally untied her!

[bobblehead]

Was that the only thing? Because signing autographs for people I don't know while I am trying to do something else would leave me frustrated as well. I understand Jeter in this case better than ARod.

No. Jeter was arrogant and treated those around him (his "friends") kinda shitty while Alex was humble and polite to everyone from a dealer to a porter. Jeter wouldn't even acknowledge the staff.

[bobblehead]

Does MM go out and pass every play against the best pass rushers to prove he can man up? Does AR stand in and take shots from Suh to prove he is a man?

Well, yea.

[sharpe1027]

Hey, that's what your mother said to me when I finally untied her!

I heard you were the one tied up?

[Upnorth]

So if you want to discourage the faking of injuries, don't allow the 'injured' player back on the field for 4 plays. That would discourage, but not overly penalize, and the league could say they are doing it for safety reasons.

[sharpe1027]

So if you want to discourage the faking of injuries, don't allow the 'injured' player back on the field for 4 plays. That would discourage, but not overly penalize, and the league could say they are doing it for safety reasons.

That's pretty close to what they do now. They get "injured" and are back in about 4 plays. I am not sure it would be much of a deterrent.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I just figured it was the Giants just being the pussys that they are.

[Upnorth]

That's pretty close to what they do now. They get "injured" and are back in about 4 plays. I am not sure it would be much of a deterrent.

BUt are they forced out for 4 plays? And if that is not working then make it 6.

[sharpe1027]

BUt are they forced out for 4 plays? And if that is not working then make it 6.

Not forced, but they often do not come back in for a few plays as it stands now. Part of the problem is that if teams are smart, then the guy "injured" is a package guy or part of a rotation (e.g., a dime back, a run-stopping DL, or a coverage LBer) that would not have been back right away regardless of the rule.

Part of me thinks it sucks, but another part doesn't care. Is it so important that the offense get this advantage that we need to make up a bunch of rules? In some ways, the no huddle is a gimmick and I don't really care that much if teams uses fake injuries to counter it. The offense should still be able to move the ball and score.

[pbmax]

Just let one of your D-linemen 'trip' and fall on the scrub's ankle. That should do the trick.
BTW, what's with all the soccer hate PB?

It's "the beautiful game", a battle between gentlemen, refined in the 19th century by the highest level of British scholars. :wink:

Lack of fair play will always exist. I coach a soccer team of 12 to 14 year olds & last weekend we were down 1-2 at halftime against an inferior team. Literally from the first minute of the second half, the coach of opposing team was telling his guys to delay the game as much as possible, meaning to wait as long as possible for each throw-in, free kick or corner kick. When the ball went out on the left side of the pitch, he called for the player the furthest away on the right side to slowly walk over and perform the throw-in. It was insane. The game ended 1-2 and they celebrated like they won the world cup.

I'm talking about youth sports at the very lowest level here. How should we be surprised when it happens in a situation where millions of $ are on the line?

I actually like watching soccer. It would be about fifth on TV sports priorities, but I will watch.

The diving stuff is a distraction, but it doesn't ruin for me. Mostly its joke fodder, as we can see.

[pbmax]

A couple of phantom pass interference calls would clear that right up.

It would but then the NFL would be the NBA.

[AtlPackFan]

JH, you live in Green Bay and you carried a bat in your car?

Jesus...I live in the Atlanta area.

I'd better buy a gun. :-(

[AtlPackFan]

Hey, that's what your mother said to me when I finally untied her!

Fritz, you bad...really bad. :-)

[Old School]

Maybe it has already come back on the NY Cheaters. Domenik Hixon is out for the year with a torn ACL. He did it on the touchdown catch.

Mark them down for an extra injury time out. This one's legit.

[mraynrand]

Maybe it has already come back on the NY Cheaters. Domenik Hixon is out for the year with a torn ACL. He did it on the touchdown catch.

Mark them down for an extra injury time out. This one's legit.

same knee, two years in a row. Uggh! Time for the slot machine!