The Elephant in the room.

[AtlPackFan]

I was listening to WSSP on my phone this morning. "Chuck and Wickett" were lauding the great WI weekend (I agree to that point, it was...even for this Atlanta transplant). In their discussion they stated the Packers were "probably the best team in the NFC" and, in my humble opinion, were ignoring the elephant in the room...the Packers D.

I'm not an Xs and Os guy but they don't seem to be able to generate a very good pass rush and it seems to affect the rest of the D. Yes they are an opportunistic D and appear to hold their own inside the 20 but I would think eventually, against a quality opponent, this bend-but-not-break D is going to rupture.

So, am I wrong? Am I over-reacting? Is there anything they can do offset the departure of Jenkins and Neal not being able to stay on the field? This appears to be the weak link the Packers quest to repeat.

[Deputy Nutz]

There is no such thing as defense in the NFL

[RashanGary]

It's the weakest link right now. We do have ball hawking secondary players and good redzone defense, so it's not quite as bad as the yardage stats indicate. Nobody is slowing the game down, so AR gets possession after possession after possession. With Starks, Grant and the OL really providing a solid running game it leaves AR and the deepest group of perimeter weapons in the NFL just shredding every defense they encounter.

I really hope Neal can make it back. It's too bad he's already chipping away at his cartilage. Kampman, Clifton, Driver, Favre (with his ankle) all did that later in their careers. It's not like bone on bone contact keeps you from playing football. Just ask Favre's ankle and Dick Butkus' knees. But there aren't many guys who will strap it up with pure bone on bone contact and play football. He's a young guy. I'm sure he has a lot of cartilage left in his knee, but you'd have to think he knocked 2 or 3 years off his career with that injury. Hopefully he doesn't have one after another like the last guy.

[Deputy Nutz]

microfracture = Neal

[Smeefers]

Naw, you're pretty right on. Our defense is a huge concern. At least it should be. JH is right in that our turn over differential is outstanding and that's keeping us in games, but a lack of a pass rush is concerning to say the least.

[Joemailman]

Packers defense is 31st in passing yardage, 29th in passing TD's, but tied for 1st in INT's. Can they make that work? I don't know, but Patriots fans are wondering the same thing. I still thing this defense will get better. Getting Neal and Zombo back should help some with the pass rush. I don't think Tramon Williams is back to 100% yet. They won't bet back to last year's level, but they can get back to respectability. With this offense, that would be enough.

[pbmax]

I agree its a concern and I hate having to pin hopes on people getting healthy.

But what do we actually know about Neal's surgey? Do we know it was cartilage or is everyone making a guess?

[Joemailman]

I agree its a concern and I hate having to pin hopes on people getting healthy.

But what do we actually know about Neal's surgey? Do we know it was cartilage or is everyone making a guess?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/neal-hopes-to-return-soon-130827948.html

The swelling didn't go down so Neal had arthroscopic surgery, performed by team physician Pat McKenzie.

"They saw that some cartilage had chipped out in my knee," Neal said. "They had to remove it. That cartilage is what was keeping my knee swollen and giving me the pain I was having. So they removed it and shaved down that part. Now, it's just about getting the fluid out."

[RashanGary]

http://blogs.greenbaypressgazette.com/blogs/gpg/insider/2011/09/29/de-neal-hoping-to-return-after-bye/

It's probably your favorite of the possible knee injuries (short term), but you have to think he's going to lose something of the back end of his career. Clifton is 100% healthy outside the fact that he has old knees. Old knees aren't an injury. They're permanent. It's lack of cartilage. It's get on the field to grit and bear it. Favre did it for years and that last year in Minny was just tough to watch. Butkus is famous for doing it in Chicago. Clifton is doing it for us now and when we really need him, when it matters most, Clifton puts on his angry face and plays like a man (see last years post season) Clifton is talented enough to get by week to week going easier on his knees. Favre was more than good enough until that last brutal season. Butkus was more than good enough I hear. . . . I'm guessing Neal lost a couple years of his career with that injury. He's no Favre, no Butkus and probably no Clifton. He's already looking at cartilage loss and he's not even 25

[gbgary]

in the original "conclusions jumped after one preseason game" (or something like that) thread i said the d sucked. sure hopes it comes around. it did last year.

[AtlPackFan]

I agree its a concern and I hate having to pin hopes on people getting healthy.

But what do we actually know about Neal's surgey? Do we know it was cartilage or is everyone making a guess?

This was my problem with them letting Jenkins go. I understand TTs philosophy of developing younger player over keeping older veterans but you have to have a younger player that can stay on the field. I don't remember Neal - though my memory is faulty with advancing age - being healthy since they drafted him. Am I wrong about that? Was he healthy in college or was he a Justin Harrell waiting to happen?

[Upnorth]

My right knee has had ACL, MCL tears with patella and meniscus cartilage damage during the military. After about 2 weeks it felt 'normal' but if I made the wrong movement it was done for a day or two. Still has that same problem, just amplified, it is 'fine' but wrong move and done for 5 days now.
Neal will come back and if he has a great brace and does not make a 'funny' movement he can play fine. Once you make that funny movement the strenght just leaves the joint and he will be done for the game, but if no further tearing be back the next week.

[denverYooper]

This was my problem with them letting Jenkins go. I understand TTs philosophy of developing younger player over keeping older veterans but you have to have a younger player that can stay on the field. I don't remember Neal - though my memory is faulty with advancing age - being healthy since they drafted him. Am I wrong about that? Was he healthy in college or was he a Justin Harrell waiting to happen?

Jenkins would help the pass rush right now, no doubt. And Neal has so far been an injury problem. But on the flip side, they would have had to deal with Cullen's contract taking up room on the cap for a lot of the other, younger core guys who are coming due. Maybe they should've worked something up last season, but I'd read/heard somewhere (can't remember source) that Jenkins didn't give GB a chance to compete with the Philly contract for his services. Right now it sure looks like a miss, but it's early.

The other thing was that Wynn and Wilson played ok during the stretch last year, and they were getting some pass rush from Raji when they let him loose, so it might not have been Neal who made the Packers feel as though they could take a chance on letting Cullen walk...

[Harlan Huckleby]

It seems like the defense is in permanent contain mode. They know they can outscore opponents if they just make the opposing offense work for their points, wait for some mistakes.

[smuggler]

I think I agree with Harlan. But they definitely aren't generating the pass rush they need. Hopefully that improves with the return of Neal.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ironically, they rank in the top 10 in sacks. Seems like a league wide problem. Also, I thought I read that the Packers called a lot of 3 man rushes against Denver because the Broncos had a lot of max protects called. They knew they'd be better off playing coverage. I didn't get to see most of the game though.

[Bossman641]

It seems like the defense is in permanent contain mode. They know they can outscore opponents if they just make the opposing offense work for their points, wait for some mistakes.

I'm not even sure I would say that. Contain makes me think of making the offense have long drives, hoping they will screw up somewhere along the way. Instead, the defense is getting gashed for chunks of yards at a time. They either have the most or 2nd most 20+ yards against them. It reminds me of the final year of Slowik, or was it Sanders, where the defense gave up huge play after huge play.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Instead, the defense is getting gashed for chunks of yards at a time.
ya, I thought about this hole in my theory. Maybe they are just not very good yet, they miss Neal & Collins. But I definitely sense they are giving underneath passes.

[SkinBasket]

I thought this would be a thread about the morality of banging your step-sister. Totally disappointed.

[Fritz]

Could it be they're missing Collins more than anticipated? It's nice that Burnett has played well, but Peprah seems to be tackling guys from behind pretty frequently these days.

Put Medical Doctor Jennings in and give him a trial by fire? Try So'oto instead of Walden?

[pbmax]

Ironically, they rank in the top 10 in sacks. Seems like a league wide problem. Also, I thought I read that the Packers called a lot of 3 man rushes against Denver because the Broncos had a lot of max protects called. They knew they'd be better off playing coverage. I didn't get to see most of the game though.

The note that they rushed 3 a lot was from the Bears game I think. I recall a lot of 4 man rush not getting home.