A Hater's Take Part 4

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers just A-holed a professional football team with solid history of winning football games in the Denver Broncos. The Broncos are young on defense and old on defense which doesn't make for a good combination, but their defense looked worse than Nebraska's.

Aaron Rodgers accounted for 6 touchdowns, four through the air, and two on the ground. Rodgers is gunning for his first MVP of the regular season and his stats are backing him for the early season favorite. It is hard to figure out what he can do better, but since I don't like the guy he needs to handle the rush better. He still has a case of the happy feet when pressure comes. It is not 2008, but if he could work on one part of his game it would be hanging in the pocket, working on his footwork to giving him passing windows through the pressure. This is the one part of the game where other QBs in the league are better than him, but that list isn't very long with Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning.

The wide receiving core is sick. Throw in Finley and I can't find a better core in all of the NFL, maybe ever. Don Driver showed a lot of heart and determination to come back from a leg injury to catch a second half touchdown pass. Some where probably afraid that they just saw the last of DD. Driver is no longer 2nd on the depth chart, that honor goes to Jordy Nelson. Nelson's length and speed are finally becoming a matchup problem for opposing secondaries. Cobb is showiing glimmers of why this guy could end up being one of the most dangerous players in the game when the ball is in his hands. He is more quick than he is fast, but he keeps his balance and is able to break the big play. Great player to have in the slot. Double J gets a TD, aparently he isn't invisible.

Starks is what he is and he is servicable for this offense. Hard to find fault with his game yesterday, but his vision isn't real great in the open field. He is a straight ahead type of runner at this point who gains the tough yards, but the combination of him and Grant is when this team is at their best at the running back position.

Packers offensive line is having issues on the edge against fast past rushers, Newhouse had issues against Von Miller and Clifton had a case of the Dumervilles. The interior of the offensive line is so much better with TJ Lang at left guard than Daryn Collegde.

The defensive line can clog up the line of scrimmage, but I haven't seen the pass rush from BJ Raji that we saw at the end of last season. Pickett loves to stop the run.

Linebackers, does this team actually employ linebackers? Mathews almost had a sack, a couple of knockdowns, but unless the Packers can get a rush from some where else Mathews is a nonfactor. Hawk is failing this season, for whatever reason is game has taken a step back from last season, same goes for Bishop who is a risk in pass coverage. Walden is a one game wonder and unfortunately that game came 9 months ago against the Bears.

The secondary is getting picked on because there is no pass rush, and in the NFL which is a pass happy league, unless you can get after the QB passes are going to be completed in bunches. The loss of Nick Collins is proving to be costly, more costly than any injury that was suffered last season to the Packers. Woodson is still a playmaker with instincts that don't need practice.

[SkinBasket]

I have to agree on Rodgers. The INT came after he was dancing around, trying to be cute. Either throw the ball to someone, tuck and run, or throw it away. He keeps this holding onto the ball for 7 seconds shit up, and he's going to get another concussion.

Starks needs to stop turning his back to the line while running. And he's kind of gay.

Clifton got bent over and filled with Bronco baby batter.

[pbmax]

I don't get the sense that we are back to the 7 second wait in the pocket. But moving around in the pocket is the only time he seems less than extraordinarily accurate. Those throws are the ones that seem to go high. Of course, we are talking about a fraction of 26% of his throws.

[Brandon494]

Damn why can't Rodgers just play perfect every time he drops back.

[SkinBasket]

Damn why can't Rodgers just play perfect every time he drops back.

It's not about playing perfect. It's about not getting injured from overconfidence in his ability to throw. Especially with the line we have.

[RashanGary]

It's not about playing perfect. It's about not getting injured from overconfidence in his ability to throw. Especially with the line we have.

I think it's a combination of confidence in ability to throw and confidence in his ability to get away from rushers. It's just confidence overall, and a willingness to get hit rather than throw it into a dangerous spot. It's the winning way to play. It beats the 15-20 interceptions the last guy threw each year, but yeah, it puts him at some added risk. Late in Favre's career he would lay down or heave it up. Self-preservation-wise, it's probably the way to go.

[RashanGary]

Joe Montana played 16 seasons, but only has 13 years worth of actual football. He was only fully healhty for 4 seasons. Aikman played 12 seasons and only had 2 full healthy seasons. Two of the lowest sack guys are the two highest injury guys. It's a different era because of how the QB is protected of course. Today, taking a few more sacks might make more sense, since they're not the horrible death blows that you watch on youtube of Aikman and Montana.


Montana 24 sacks per year. (16 games for everyone)
Brees 20 sacks per year
Brady 27 sacks per year
Aikman 22 sacks per year
Favre 27 sacks per year
Rogers current average (37 per year)


Early in all of those guys careers, the numbers were higher.

Brady was at 35 per year in his first 3
Montana no change mid 20's
Aikman 34 per year
Favre 32 per year
Brees no change (low 20's)


Rodgers 37 to Bradys 35 or Aikman's 34 isn't a huge contrast.


Rodgers is on pace this year for 28. He's right in that Brady/Favre career average realm and a little higher still than the others.

Rodgers demeanor might be most similar to Brady's/Aikman's. They hate throwing picks. They're perfectionists. Those three had the highest early career sack totals.

One day during that 50 sack year AR just decided to turn it off and it was so. It might be a bit of an anomaly or maybe some foolish stubbornness on AR/MM's part. Remember them saying they weren't going to change, they were going to demand more from the OL? There was some crazy MM hate after those interviews. Either way, it was a strange 8 games. Even with that, he fits right in with the most recent multi champ and another recent multi-champ (Aikman). Take that weird 8 games out and he fits with Favre and Brees too. Regardless, would you rather he be more like Brady and Aikman or Favre and Brees? However you cut it, he's very similar with his sack totals to some recent multi champs and the stat collectors. He's more similar to multi champs. Throw Ben in there and it looks even better. I just don't consider Ben as great as the others, maybe that's my bias though. It would make the "AR takes too many sacks" thing even less relevant though.

[Deputy Nutz]

It isn't about taking sacks, it is about working the pocket. Rodgers has vastly improved in this, but still not great. You heard Phil Simms say a couple of times that Packers are going with a more vertical passing attack instead of the short quick hitting passes of the West Coast Offense. Waiting 2 more seconds for receivers to get open 20 yards downfield versus 8 yards downfield does make a significant difference.

[Deputy Nutz]

You want to see this defense get better, then the Packers need to get pressure on the QB. It doesn't come from scheme, it comes from beating the guy across from you and the Packers have not done this on a consistent enough basis to improve their defense and stop opposing offenses.

[SkinBasket]

I think it's a combination of confidence in ability to throw and confidence in his ability to get away from rushers. It's just confidence overall, and a willingness to get hit rather than throw it into a dangerous spot. It's the winning way to play. It beats the 15-20 interceptions the last guy threw each year, but yeah, it puts him at some added risk. Late in Favre's career he would lay down or heave it up. Self-preservation-wise, it's probably the way to go.

Yeah, I get the trade off, but I also get the sense that Rodgers believes he should have 100% completion percentage every game, and isn't ending some plays when he should. This was especially true yesterday, when it looked like he was holding the ball out of want more than need. I'm just concerned that he's going to take a helmet to his back waiting for Jenkins or Cobb to break free down-field when he could have checked down or thrown it away in a game where his team is up by 20 or 30 points.

[pbmax]

It isn't about taking sacks, it is about working the pocket. Rodgers has vastly improved in this, but still not great. You heard Phil Simms say a couple of times that Packers are going with a more vertical passing attack instead of the short quick hitting passes of the West Coast Offense. Waiting 2 more seconds for receivers to get open 20 yards downfield versus 8 yards downfield does make a significant difference.

Yes, but wasn't Simms comparing him to either 2007 Favre and the slant factory? Rodgers has other short throws he prefers. I think looking deep is more on the QB and his confidence in the pocket more than a change in McCarthy. He looks vastly better than in 2008 and parts of 09.

His sense of where rushers are seems much improved too. He bailed at the right time several times as Clifton lost Dumerville around the edge. He has not taken the same number of big shots as he did last year at this time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Joe Montana played 16 seasons, but only has 13 years worth of actual football. He was only fully healhty for 4 seasons. Aikman played 12 seasons and only had 2 full healthy seasons. Two of the lowest sack guys are the two highest injury guys. It's a different era because of how the QB is protected of course. Today, taking a few more sacks might make more sense, since they're not the horrible death blows that you watch on youtube of Aikman and Montana.


Montana 24 sacks per year. (16 games for everyone)
Brees 20 sacks per year
Brady 27 sacks per year
Aikman 22 sacks per year
Favre 27 sacks per year
Rogers current average (37 per year)


Early in all of those guys careers, the numbers were higher.

Brady was at 35 per year in his first 3
Montana no change mid 20's
Aikman 34 per year
Favre 32 per year
Brees no change (low 20's)


Rodgers 37 to Bradys 35 isn't a huge contrast.


Rodgers is on pace this year for 28. He's right in that Brady/Favre career average realm and a little higher still than the others.

Rodgers demeanor might be most similar to Brady's. He hates throwing picks. He's a perfectionist. Those two had the highest early career sack totals and both had early career championsh just decided to turn it off and it was so. It might be a bit of an anomaly, in which case, he'd be right with the recent SB winners, past multi-champs and huge stat collectors like Favre.

You can't really compare him to most of those guys because most were pocket passers who couldn't run worth a lick. Rodgers makes big plays with his feet, so he's going to stretch/extend plays. I'd be more interested in comparing him to similar style QBs. Randall Cunningham and Mike Vick are on the other end of the spectrum, and their sacks are astronomical because of all of the scrambling they do. Montana and Favre in their early years (when they scrambled more) are good comparisions + Steve Young, John Elway, and perhaps somebody like Steve McNair are more apt comparisons. Rodgers definitely held onto the ball too long his second year--when it seemed like he was trying to let the big play develop. However, even by the end of that year he had gotten a lot better. Now, I think he has a good balance between getting rid of the ball but still making some plays with his scrambling ability.

Rodgers has been ridiculously good. There's not a thing he doesn't do well. End of story.

[SkinBasket]

Rodgers has been ridiculously good. There's not a thing he doesn't do well. End of story.

Does that include sex stuff?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Does that include sex stuff?

Probably.

[pbmax]

Let's hope we never find out.

[RashanGary]

AR's sack totals are right there with the elite of the elite champion QB's at similar career development points. It also seems like taking sacks -vs- throwing interceptions has an effect on winning championships.

[RashanGary]

I updated my stat thing to show how Rodgers compared to the recent multi-champs earlier in their career. It shows AR is right on pace. In that edit, I also mentioned how AR/MM decided one day in that 50 sack season to turn the sacks off, and it was so. It may have been a stubborness thing.

I'll take Harvey's comment. "there is nohting AR isn't great at." and just second that. I really don't like to use stats. I think a good eyeball and sense of perspective is a better gauge. You can take my stats, and they show AR in the elite of the elite with sack totals, but Harvey's eyeball is probably the better source. Rodgers is fucking dominant. You can see that with your eye. Unlike Brady and Favre who force it against man coverage, AR runs for TD's and first downs (the more effective option.) He's a blend between Brady and Steve Young. Not quite as athletic as Young, maybe not quite as slick as Brady in some areas, but close in all areas, dominant in all areas, including pocket presence. He might go down as the most complete QB of all time and in the list of multi champs.

[SkinBasket]

If your argument is that Rodgers is a great QB, then I don't think you're going to get much dissension outside of Partial.

[rbaloha1]

Whatever metric one uses, AR is playing the position as well as anyone in history. Winning a super bowl cements it as well as comments from NFL people. Yes, Aikman counts.

[mraynrand]

It's interesting that the conversation has focused on Rodger's limitations, given the marginal defensive performance.

[Deputy Nutz]

Rodgers has been ridiculously good. There's not a thing he doesn't do well. End of story.

What about Ford Truck commercials?

[retailguy]

Nutz - you do a good job with these. Thanks, I enjoyed the read.

[RashanGary]

What about Ford Truck commercials?


Come on now, Nutz, relax, you don't have to come here and prove how valid you are in your opinions every day. Every post doesn't have to be like a line in the sand.

But yeah, that commercial sucks.


Your opinion is still invalid though.

[RashanGary]

Nutz - you do a good job with these. Thanks, I enjoyed the read.

Boooo!!!

Yeah, they're good. Just gotta drop the little stubborn crusade to save ego and I'm sure it will stop prying the wrong way on people.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Could you start using Roman numerals in your post title's Nutz? That would assuredly make them seem more important and authoritative and thus cause less conflict. Plus, they just scream class.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What about Ford Truck commercials?

Rodgers looks embarassed in those things.

[SkinBasket]

Could you start using Roman numerals in your post title's Nutz? That would assuredly make them seem more important and authoritative and thus cause less conflict. Plus, they just scream class.

He can't count Roman past 3.

[Deputy Nutz]

Could you start using Roman numerals in your post title's Nutz? That would assuredly make them seem more important and authoritative and thus cause less conflict. Plus, they just scream class.

Skinbasket is a correct. Roman Numerial 4 is a tough one. I don't know if the I goes before the V or after it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Rodgers looks embarassed in those things.

Like he is too gotdamn good to drive a pickup truck. He probably drives a Prius.

[Deputy Nutz]

Boooo!!!

Yeah, they're good. Just gotta drop the little stubborn crusade to save ego and I'm sure it will stop prying the wrong way on people.

I got no ego to save.

Anyways seeing your avatar reminds me, Alex Green is the fastest most expolsive back the Packers have. Starks is going to end up sitting behind him in a year or two. I would like to see Green active on game days and given a series or two. He is so much more athletic than Grant or Starks. You could see it on his couple of runs on Sunday.

[swede]

His sense of where rushers are seems much improved too. He bailed at the right time several times as Clifton lost Dumerville around the edge.

I think this may be because Clifton is much improved at yelling, "Look out!" in time for it to do some good.


Nutz, I think you should write the next Hater's Take in a Hugo Weaving voice. It would go well with your tone of cool detachment and thinly disguised loathing of Rodgers and Skin.

[SkinBasket]

I think this may be because Clifton is much improved at yelling, "Look out!" in time for it to do some good.

Clifton didn't even have time to yell that out this weekend the way he was being abused.

[swede]

Clifton didn't even have time to yell that out this weekend the way he was being abused.

Maybe it was a pre-snap line call.

"Got a bad feeling, Aaron! Roll right!"

[SkinBasket]

Maybe it was a pre-snap line call.

That's actually very funny because it's totally believable.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Skinbasket is a correct. Roman Numerial 4 is a tough one. I don't know if the I goes before the V or after it.

Just use all I's then.

[pbmax]

Like he is too gotdamn good to drive a pickup truck. He probably drives a Prius.

He previously had a Tundra. I think he's more worried about domestic.

[pbmax]

Nutz, I think you should write the next Hater's Take in a Hugo Weaving voice. It would go well with your tone of cool detachment and thinly disguised loathing of Rodgers and Skin.

Mr. Anderson, I see you are still deluding yourself that there are ways for an individual to escape purpose and fate. Your precious quarterback cannot avoid the totality that is football. Passing will not lead you to salvation. You must run to maintain order and win the game.

[Brandon494]

Does that include sex stuff?

What do you think the mustache was for?

[channtheman]

Just use all I's then.

A Haters Take Part IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Ahhh, gotta love [simplified] Roman Numerals.

[Upnorth]

He can't count Roman past 3.

I I I dont know how to get that far even, it causes me so much stress I may have to get an IV drip.

Wow do I ever have a poor sense of humor to even think this is funny.

[mraynrand]

I I I dont know how to get that far even, it causes me so much stress I may have to get an IV drip.

Wow do I ever have a poor sense of humor to even think this is funny.


:lol:

[RashanGary]

I got no ego to save.

Anyways seeing your avatar reminds me, Alex Green is the fastest most expolsive back the Packers have. Starks is going to end up sitting behind him in a year or two. I would like to see Green active on game days and given a series or two. He is so much more athletic than Grant or Starks. You could see it on his couple of runs on Sunday.

I thought Green looked good too. I'm still curious to see him run more of the standard / base runs. I'm really excited about him in the draw/screen game. I've noticed McCarthy doing a little draws/fake draws. Paving the way for his new toy?

[swede]

I I I dont know how to get that far even, it causes me so much stress I may have to get an IV drip.

Wow do I ever have a poor sense of humor to even think this is funny.

I saw it, thought about, and decided against it. You did okay with it, tho.

It's like the geologist out in the field with a few students. One student finds an unusual rock and shows it to the geologist who appraises it a moment and then declares, "Levit!" The student asks if "levit" is valuable or rare, and the geologist clarifies, "I mean levit where you found it."

The IV joke was levit.

[MJZiggy]

I I I dont know how to get that far even, it causes me so much stress I may have to get an IV drip.

Wow do I ever have a poor sense of humor to even think this is funny.

It's the alcohol.

[MadtownPacker]

Great job on the hating this week Nutty. Though I am disappointed that you did not make reference to the Finley comments.

[vince]

It is hard to figure out what he can do better, but since I don't like the guy he needs to handle the rush better.
Hater talk. No one in the league handles the rush better than Rodgers. If he's not scorching blitzers with the highest passer rating in history, he's eluding pressure and running with his head up making pinpoint passes downfield or he's running with the ball and making good decisions scoring or sliding at the appropriate time.


Hawk is failing this season, for whatever reason is game has taken a step back from last season, same goes for Bishop who is a risk in pass coverage.
Agreed. The inside linebacking crew, especially Hawk, have not made many plays overall.


The loss of Nick Collins is proving to be costly, more costly than any injury that was suffered last season to the Packers.
Wrong. The losses of Finley, Matthews and Rodgers resulted in costly losses last year. Losing Collins hasn't cost anything that counts for anything so far. Burnett needs to have a little more Hawk in him and sit back a bit more, but the Packers have won by an average of 13 points this season, and that gap has gone up since the loss of Collins.

[MadtownPacker]

Wrong. The losses of Finley, Matthews and Rodgers resulted in costly losses last year. Losing Collins hasn't cost anything that counts for anything so far. Burnett needs to have a little more Hawk in him and sit back a bit more, but the Packers have won by an average of 13 points this season, and that gap has gone up since the loss of Collins.
Dont hate the playa hate the game!!

Damn you grabbed Nutz by the goodies and twisted them shit out of them there man. Great point.

[Pugger]

Our pass defense wasn't all that hot before Collins got hurt either.

[Deputy Nutz]

Hater talk. No one in the league handles the rush better than Rodgers. If he's not scorching blitzers with the highest passer rating in history, he's eluding pressure and running with his head up making pinpoint passes downfield or he's running with the ball and making good decisions scoring or sliding at the appropriate time.


Agreed. The inside linebacking crew, especially Hawk, have not made many plays overall.


Wrong. The losses of Finley, Matthews and Rodgers resulted in costly losses last year. Losing Collins hasn't cost anything that counts for anything so far. Burnett needs to have a little more Hawk in him and sit back a bit more, but the Packers have won by an average of 13 points this season, and that gap has gone up since the loss of Collins.

Collins is gone for the season. He is a pro bowl and all pro player. Rodgers by all means slides into those categories but he missed one game, Mathews missed one game. The only other player that compared to the length of time missed was Finley, and at that point all we could see from Finley was promise.

The rest of your statistics are arbitrary, Collins doesn't play on offense and cannot affect the total amount of points the Packers offense creates.

[Deputy Nutz]

Our pass defense wasn't all that hot before Collins got hurt either.

But he is another playmaker, the second best playmaker next to Woodson.

Fuck you guys are so awash with kool aid that you can't even recognize the significance of an injury.

[HarveyWallbangers]

But he is another playmaker, the second best playmaker next to Woodson.

Fuck you guys are so awash with kool aid that you can't even recognize the significance of an injury.

I agree with you here. Losing Collins hurts a lot.

[mraynrand]

Fuck you guys are so awash with kool aid that you can't even recognize the significance of an injury.


Collins doesn't play on offense and cannot affect the total amount of points the Packers offense creates.

You are so unawashed with koolaid that you forgot that Collins can set up the offense to score by virtue of his play - if he doesn't score points all by his lonesome. It's a significant loss.

[Upnorth]

Collins is gone for the season. He is a pro bowl and all pro player. Rodgers by all means slides into those categories but he missed one game, Mathews missed one game. The only other player that compared to the length of time missed was Finley, and at that point all we could see from Finley was promise.

The rest of your statistics are arbitrary, Collins doesn't play on offense and cannot affect the total amount of points the Packers offense creates.

Haters take is one of my favorite on going threads, well done. Collins does hurt, but his loss is like the loss of Finley last year, by itself the team can adjust but if we get more longterm injuries in the secondary look out. Finley we adjusted to by him self, but when any other recievers we injured we slowed down alot.

[vince]

Collins is gone for the season. He is a pro bowl and all pro player. Rodgers by all means slides into those categories but he missed one game, Mathews missed one game. The only other player that compared to the length of time missed was Finley, and at that point all we could see from Finley was promise.

The rest of your statistics are arbitrary, Collins doesn't play on offense and cannot affect the total amount of points the Packers offense creates.
Everyone would rather have Collins out there than Peprah. He's a pro-bowl player. Peprah's a marginal player. It remains to be seen whether his absence will cost the team anything. Maybe it will. So far it hasn't. That's a fact whether you're drinking kool-aid or haterade.

[pbmax]

vince's point stands on its own, along with Patler's earlier logic. Peprah is Peprah from last year. Burnett needs first to elevate his play and adjust to a new position -deep. His first two games of adjustments haven't cost the team yet so he has another week to adjust. It remains to be seen whether he can approach Collins level of play, but he might.

Rodgers, Matthews and Finley going out had a significant role in 4 losses if not more. While Collins is very valuable as Nutz points out, the Packers as currently constituted might be able to make it work without him. And many of the Packers Pass D problems existed regardless of Collins presence.

[Deputy Nutz]

It doesn't help their problems. I would take a missed game from Rodgers once a year or a missed game from Mathews then a whole season from your pro bowl safety

[mission]

Nice thread, I enjoy these for some reason. Good contributions by others also...

The only loss with Collins is that we had a potential this year to be even better than last at those two positions. Obviously we're back with Peprah on the field and Burnett who has at least produced up to this point equal/beyond? Collins' level. He's been involved with at least six turnovers that I can think of in four games. Obviously he's given up a couple TDs but one I can chalk up to him being iso'd on a WR ... you'd think they'd play that situation differently in the future.

Reading the thread, I've seen a lot of players on the defensive side of the ball being mentioned as under-performing. I wonder why this is true? Camp and preseason had us thinking our offense would need time to gel and that the D was causing big problems in practice for Aaron & crew. It's clear that a lot of guys -- Shields, Hawk, Bishop, Mathews, Walden ?, Tramon, Peprah, Raji ? -- just aren't up to the level we know they can play. I'd like to think the lockout had something to do with that and we'll see them tighten up in coming weeks. It would suck if it's because they all had to stop taking HGH or some crazy shit like that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think Burnett has been up to Collins normal level. I also don't think Peprah has played as well as last year, and I don't think you can assume he will.

[Pugger]

But he is another playmaker, the second best playmaker next to Woodson.

Fuck you guys are so awash with kool aid that you can't even recognize the significance of an injury.

I never said his loss was insignificant. All I said was our pass D was having issues before he got hurt. Until our pass rush improves it won't matter who is back there. If you give marginal NFL QBs time to throw DBs will get burned even if they are all All-Pros.

[vince]

I don't think Burnett has been up to Collins normal level. I also don't think Peprah has played as well as last year, and I don't think you can assume he will.
Agree. The point is, so far it hasn't cost the team anything.

[bobblehead]

You want to see this defense get better, then the Packers need to get pressure on the QB. It doesn't come from scheme, it comes from beating the guy across from you and the Packers have not done this on a consistent enough basis to improve their defense and stop opposing offenses.

I agree 100%. We actually feel the effect of losing Jenkins. I personally wasn't crazy about the contract they gave to Hawk. I think he is an average starter. He certainly isn't much better than Bishop, yet he got much more money.

[SkinBasket]

God, you people really do inflate the ability and value of safeties around here. As far as I can see, our defense is playing just about exactly the same without him as it was with him. Yeah, maybe one of the long completions doesn't happen this last week with Collins in there. Maybe. But you homos are romanticizing his ability and effect on our defense, knowing there's no way to prove the negative that the defense would be much better with him in there. Because he's not. Because he's got a soft noggin. Deal with it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Collins has a huge impact on this defense. I understand that the Packers are 4-0 and everything in the world is right for Packer fan, but a less than stellar defense to begin with now has one of their best players out for the season. That is fact, it is also a true statement that the Packers defense is better with Nick Collins out on the field. Why is that so hard for you to figure out?

[vince]

a less than stellar defense to begin with now has one of their best players out for the season. That is fact, it is also a true statement that the Packers defense is better with Nick Collins out on the field. Why is that so hard for you to figure out?
It's not. Most people would agree with that. I certainly would, but that's not the original statement you made.

The loss of Nick Collins is proving to be costly, more costly than any injury that was suffered last season to the Packers.

[Smeefers]

Mah. Nevermind.

[Deputy Nutz]

It's not. Most people would agree with that. I certainly would, but that's not the original statement you made.

I am not backing away from my comments. Nick Collins is a dynamic presence on the football field, he is the QB of the secondary you want to count 4-0 as an entire season go a head you have earned it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Mah. Nevermind.

Totally unacceptable, either say something our don't even bother.

[mission]

I don't think Burnett has been up to Collins normal level. I also don't think Peprah has played as well as last year, and I don't think you can assume he will.

Maybe so, but it's still arguable. He's given up a couple plays but he's forced or recovered more turnovers and has made quite an impression this year with his tackling. I agree I'd take Collins over Burnett if I could have only one, but Burnett has been one of the few pleasant surprises on defense imo.

[Zool]

It sure seemed like Burnett and Collins were getting beat deep as often as Burnett and Peprah are now. Maybe we need to get one of the safeties a mandate that they must be in behind everyone else on the field at all times. Stop biting on the GD play fakes.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers defense has had problems since the start of the season defending the pass. Lossing Collins means it is going to take that much longer to fix. Also I don't care who you are if the QB has 7 seconds to throw the ball defensive backs are going to get beat deep.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I just can't wait for Part IIIII

[swede]

Parts of 7 of 9 are going to be good also.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OJEO40d2Jyk/TaSLrz_6eKI/AAAAAAAAFeo/h6hyHhmPoWw/s1600/seven.jpg

[Fritz]

I'm such a typical guy. Thick, luscious lips, big tits - who cares if she's of another species altogether?

[pbmax]

I'm such a typical guy. Thick, luscious lips, big tits - who cares if she's of another species altogether?

Fritz, this is the movie for you.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114508/

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Aaron Rodgers deserves a Hater's Take article this week that doesn't mention of any of his weaknesses. Rodgers is good.

[SkinBasket]

Nick Collins who?

[Deputy Nutz]

I would love to write an article that is glowing and depicts all of Rodgers specialties but I haven't watched the game yet, Battling a cold of some kind and fell asleep before I could finish watching the 1st quarter.