WRs

[Smidgeon]

So PFT had an article about McCarthy's reaction to Driver not having a lot of output despite being a starter, and that got me thinking. So I thought I'd take a closer look.

Packer Receiving Stats
Pos G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G
Greg Jennings WR 5 5 29 448 15.4 4 49 5.8 89.6
J. Finley TE 5 5 22 301 13.7 3 39 4.4 60.2
Jordy Nelson wr 5 0 18 309 17.2 3 84 3.6 61.8
James Jones wr 5 0 14 228 16.3 2 70 2.8 45.6
James Starks rb 5 0 13 96 7.4 0 16 2.6 19.2
Randall Cobb wr 5 0 9 174 19.3 1 61 1.8 34.8
Donald Driver WR 5 5 9 76 8.4 1 16 1.8 15.2
John Kuhn fb 5 0 6 32 5.3 0 7 1.2 6.4
Ryan Grant RB 4 4 5 25 5.0 0 8 1.3 6.3
Tom Crabtree te 5 0 2 19 9.5 0 15 0.4 3.8
D.J. Williams wlb 3 0 1 7 7.0 0 7 0.3 2.3
Alex Green rb 3 0 1 6 6.0 0 6 0.3 2.0
Team Total 5 5 129 1721 13.3 14 84 25.8 344.2
(Data from Pro-Football Reference.com)

I don't think anyone here is surprised that Driver isn't the #2 WR. There's been a debate going on over the offseason about how he'd be leap-frogged by either Jordy or Jones this year. What surprised me is just how far down the depth chart he is--in terms of production--despite being a starter (even if nominally). In any other city, the fans would be going nuts about getting someone productive in the starting line up. But not Green Bay (which I like). They can still give the respect of the position to Driver without sacrificing production.

Driver comes as the fifth most productive WR with one running back and one tight end producing more. He's actually tied with Cobb for the same number of receptions, but Cobb has almost 100 yards more on his receptions.

How many other teams can get away with starting a player who isn't producing without a backlash like Green Bay is? Berrian in Minnesota, Williams in Chicago? I like the makeup of this team that doesn't complain and still produces.

Plus, I think it's motivational for both Jordy and Jones. Or maybe not.

[pbmax]

jasonjwilde Jason Wilde
Here are the wide receiver snaps, unofficially, this season: Jennings 264, Nelson 194, Driver 156, Jones 127, Cobb 63.

https://twitter.com/#!/jasonjwilde/status/124230793949220864

[HarveyWallbangers]

jasonjwilde Jason Wilde
Here are the wide receiver snaps, unofficially, this season: Jennings 264, Nelson 194, Driver 156, Jones 127, Cobb 63.

https://twitter.com/#!/jasonjwilde/status/124230793949220864

Flip Jones and Driver, and you probably have the pecking order for the rest of the year. Nelson is really our #2 WR, Jones is probably #3, Driver is probably #4. It might not be long before Cobb moves up the depth chart either. At this point, now that he has a ring and all of the records, it seems that Driver is handling this with class.

[bobblehead]

DD is one of my all time favorites, but like another of my all time favorites (Henderson) I think his time is up. This is likely to be his last season.

[King Friday]

I just want Donald to get enough action to reach 10,000 career receiving yards. He's too close to not get it.

[mraynrand]

I have to admit, I still enjoy watching them send DD over the middle to get his ass kicked. That's about the only time they throw him the rock.

[mission]

I just want Donald to get enough action to reach 10,000 career receiving yards. He's too close to not get it.

This. I think he's 291 yards away if I remember correctly when I was looking earlier today. He's gotta get it. Hopefully.

[Lurker64]

I don't think Driver is really the #2 WR in any meaningful sense. But he's the top Y on the roster (though Cobb is gaining ground rapidly). I would say Jennings and Nelson are the starters.

Long term, Jennings is your top Z, Nelson is your top X, and Cobb is probably your top Y. You probably couldn't dream up a better mentor than Driver to teach Cobb how to work the middle out of the slot in the NFL, though. It's a position that takes some smarts, and Cobb is a student of the game while the Donald is as savvy at working the middle as anybody I've ever seen. There's definitely a worse way for Driver to spend what will likely be his last year in Green and Gold than grooming a budding star.

[vince]

Thanks for posting those stats Smidgeon. Your mastery of the code function is impressive. I can't figure out how to make that work right.

I think the offense is going to continue to evolve with Cobb getting more snaps as he demonstrates that he understands the offense. 20 yards a reception for a guy in the slot running slants and seams is impressive. I'm hoping Green can show he can protect because he is tailor-made for 3rd down situations with his ability to run out of a spread formation and catch the ball and set up blockers in the screen game.

Driver needs to break a big one to get to 10,000 yards. Hopefully it happens.

[hoosier]

Surprised to see that Driver has considerably more snaps than JJ but also less production.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Long term, Jennings is your top Z, Nelson is your top X, and Cobb is probably your top Y.

But DD may have the best "A" button stiff arm ability, or is that the "B" button?

[ND72]

Surprised to see that Driver has considerably more snaps than JJ but also less production.

Take off JJ 70 yard TD, and he has 150 yards...I know it's still 80 yards more, but it's not a ton more.

Driver does many things that go unseen. sometimes his routes cross the middle open up finley or jennings in a companion route.

[KYPack]

I don't think Driver is really the #2 WR in any meaningful sense. But he's the top Y on the roster (though Cobb is gaining ground rapidly). I would say Jennings and Nelson are the starters.

Long term, Jennings is your top Z, Nelson is your top X, and Cobb is probably your top Y. You probably couldn't dream up a better mentor than Driver to teach Cobb how to work the middle out of the slot in the NFL, though. It's a position that takes some smarts, and Cobb is a student of the game while the Donald is as savvy at working the middle as anybody I've ever seen. There's definitely a worse way for Driver to spend what will likely be his last year in Green and Gold than grooming a budding star.

Terminology that nobody really give a shit about, dept.

Y is used by most OC's to denote the TE. Finley and the other 15 TE's are the Y's in this offense.

A slot guy like Cobb would be the "U". The rest of this is right. Nelson is a Y, Jennings a great Z, etc.

[sharpe1027]

Terminology that nobody really give a shit about, dept.

Y is used by most OC's to denote the TE. Finley and the other 15 TE's are the Y's in this offense.

A slot guy like Cobb would be the "U". The rest of this is right. Nelson is a Y, Jennings a great Z, etc.


I care. Is Z the wide WR that is the only WR on that side, while X is lined up outside of the slot (is the slot then U?)? What is the Y then, the tightest lined up eligible receiver (i.e., lined up inside of even the slot?)

[retailguy]

Terminology that nobody really give a shit about, dept.

Y is used by most OC's to denote the TE. Finley and the other 15 TE's are the Y's in this offense.

A slot guy like Cobb would be the "U". The rest of this is right. Nelson is a Y, Jennings a great Z, etc.

Dont you mean that Nelson is the "X"?

[pbmax]

Question: Does anyone remember the designations for Brooks and Freeman?

I remember during Free's breakout year (or the next) Sherman Lewis saying they were looking at pulling out the old San Francisco plays for John Taylor since Free to take advantage of his skill. I thought Lewis referred to them as plays for the Z, but ...

... wasn't Brooks was the flanker (TE side, lines up behind the LOS) and Free at SE (covering the open tackle - ie. no TE)? Free had to escape more jams at the LOS and Brooks had more room to maneuver.

That would have made Brooks the flanker Z like Jennings and Free and Nelson would be the X. Correct?

[denverYooper]

Dont you mean that Nelson is the "X"?

Nelson is the Terminator X.

http://mcnothing.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/terminator-x2.jpg?w=122&h=166

[KYPack]

Dont you mean that Nelson is the "X"?


Yeah, Nelson is an X or split end.

Y is the TE

Z is the flanker.

U is a fourth receiver, in some systems the second TE is always the U.

Slot guys like Cobb are referred to as A & B in 4 and 5 set play calls in some systems.

The X, Y, and Z terminolgy has been around forever and is pretty universal.

[sharpe1027]

Wikipedia is great:

While the general fan base and most commentators use the generic term wide receiver for all such players, specific names exist for most receiver positions:

Split end (X or SE): A receiver on the line of scrimmage, necessary to meet the rule requiring seven such players at snap. Where applicable, this receiver is on the opposite side of the tight end. The split end is farthest from center on his side of the field.

Flanker (Z or FL): A receiver lining up behind the line of scrimmage. Frequently the team's featured receiver, the flanker uses the initial buffer between himself and a defender to avoid jamming, legal contact within five yards of the line of scrimmage. The flanker is generally on the same side of the formation as a tight end. As with the split end, this receiver is the farthest player from the center on his side of the field. The flanker is probably lined up just like a split end except that he is just behind the line of scrimmage, being in the backfield and not on the line.

Slot receiver (Y or SL): A less-formal name given to receivers in addition to split ends and flankers (for example tight-ends who line up wide). These receivers line up between the split end/flanker and the linemen. If aligned with a flanker, the slot receiver is usually on the line of scrimmage, and if with a split end, off the line of scrimmage. As with the flanker position, a featured receiver often takes a slot position with a split end to avoid jamming.

Slot back: A receiver lining up in the offensive back field. Canadian and arena football allow them to take a running start at the line. They are usually larger players as they need to make catches over the middle. In American football slot backs are typically used in flexbone or other triple option offenses while Canadian football uses them in almost all formations.

[Guiness]

More reasons to love Driver's attitude.


WR Donald Driver (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/player/133276/donald-driver), who had one catch for five yards on Sunday, said he’s only concerned about winning games. “When you start worrying about how many balls you're getting, that's when you start losing games,” he said in a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel story Wednesday. “Then you put the pressure on Aaron (Rodgers) (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/player/419780/aaron-rodgers) trying to make sure everyone stays happy.”

Didn't mention himself at all, forget naming himself in the third person! His concern is the pressure that would put on Rodgers. Wow.

[MJZiggy]

More reasons to love Driver's attitude.



Didn't mention himself at all, forget naming himself in the third person! His concern is the pressure that would put on Rodgers. Wow.

With the way Rodgers is playing, who in their right mind would want to mess with that?

[Fritz]

I recall fondly the old designations - the flanker, the split end, the half-back

[SkinBasket]

The Bronco's are shopping LLoyd. Looking for a 4th or 5th. Maybe we could give them Jones and a 5th. Upgrade!

[Upnorth]

More reasons to love Driver's attitude.



Didn't mention himself at all, forget naming himself in the third person! His concern is the pressure that would put on Rodgers. Wow.

Whether Driver produces or not to me is somewhat irrelavant, he does two great things for this team,

1) Helps slant and in routes open up by drawing MLB to him in coverage which helps out everyone elses numbers. They let him go unchecked and Rodgers will give them death by 1000 pinpricks.
2) Shows other receivers how not to be idiots. It will be tough to reach his level but his steady presence is worth a great deal to the WR corp.

[Smidgeon]

Whether Driver produces or not to me is somewhat irrelavant, he does two great things for this team,

1) Helps slant and in routes open up by drawing MLB to him in coverage which helps out everyone elses numbers. They let him go unchecked and Rodgers will give them death by 1000 pinpricks.
2) Shows other receivers how not to be idiots. It will be tough to reach his level but his steady presence is worth a great deal to the WR corp.

More #2 than #1. Cobb can do the first one probably better than Driver at this point...

[KYPack]

Not yet, Smidge, not yet.

Cobb is only in his 3rd year of playing WR. He was a QB in HS and half his freshman year in college. He's still learning that job. DD can run a slant or dig better than Cobb in his sleep. But the pro that Donald is, by the end of the year, Cobb will be one of the better slot R's in the NFL.

[Patler]

DD can run a slant or dig better than Cobb in his sleep.

Heck, I can run a slant or dig better than Cobb in his sleep. :lol: :lol:

[vince]

Cobb's still learning, but he's also already the most effective receiver in the league on a per target basis according to Football Outsiders statistics. He leads the league (by a pretty wide margin) in their DVOA stat, which equates to production per target adjusted for the quality of defense he's playing against.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

[KYPack]

Heck, I can run a slant or dig better than Cobb in his sleep. :lol: :lol:

That is debatable, old hoss.

My guess is a snoring Cobb would still run it better than yourself.

But wadda I know?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cobb's still learning, but he's also already the most effective receiver in the league on a per target basis according to Football Outsiders statistics. He leads the league (by a pretty wide margin) in their DVOA stat, which equates to production per target adjusted for the quality of defense he's playing against.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Small sample size in which a 60+ yard gain skewed the stats.

[vince]

Small sample size in which a 60+ yard gain skewed the stats.
Agreed. He should have a bigger sample size.

From Pro Football Focus (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/13/32-teams-32-observations-6/)

Green Bay Packers: To stick with the NFC North receiver theme, Randall Cobb has caught 90% of passes thrown his way. His 19.3 yards per catch is rather high considering 67% of his pass routes have come in the slot position.

[Upnorth]

90 %, get that man more balls!

[pbmax]

Small sample size in which a 60+ yard gain skewed the stats.

But his DVOA is nearly 90, better than many primary receivers, and that stat discounts one big play in favor consistent success. Still remarkable.