Programmable Thermostats

[HowardRoark]

Do one of you smart people know if there is an optimal amount to let your heat go down during the day if it will be going back up later in the day? It would seem that there must be a point on the curve where it is more inefficient if it goes too low.

[MJZiggy]

I think it depends on all sorts of interesting things like what temperature you want the room to be when you get home. I let mine drop to 64 in the winter and then incrementally increase it so that it's 70 when I get back. Most people I know in Wisconsin would never dream of keeping it as warm as 70 in the winter (that's what you have a sweater for, dear). In other words, I think the smart people will need another number to the the math comparison between the BTUs to maintain a certain temperature and those required to increase it.

[red]

try putting on some headphones

problem solved

[hoosier]

I would think it depends what kind of heating system you have.

[Patler]

For the most in energy savings (in the winter), you want your set back temp to be such that your furnace does not run at all while you are gone, but starts in time to get your house to an acceptable temp when your return. In that way you are replacing only the minimum BTUs necessary for your comfort. Whether this is practical and will actually work for you or not may depend on how "smart" your heating system is, or how tolerant you are, because the practicality of it isn't always acceptable to everyone. A few of the issues that arise are:

- Obviously, if your house losses heat quickly and it is extremely cold out side, you wouldn't want your house to get so cold as to freeze drains, etc. This shouldn't be an issue unless you have a situation like I did when I was first married, with a house on Lake Superior that had no insulation in the walls or attic. Our shower drain always froze!

- It may take a long time for your heating system to get back up to temp. Most have duty cycle limitations. After running at max ouput for a given time, they will cycle off for a while even if the set temperature has not been reached. On a very cold day it will take your system a lot longer to recover than on a less cold day, even if both are starting from the same temperature, because of the continuing heat loss during recovery. The smartest of smart heating systems take this into consideration, factor in the outside temperature, and adjust the "start" time so that the desired temp is achieved at the prescribed time. If you have a basic set back thermostat, and you program for it to began recovery at the same time each day, it might be acceptable on a warm day, but feel cold on a cold day because it has not yet recovered. Conversely, if you set it so it recovers in time on the coldest days, it may recover far in advance of your return on a warm day, and waste fuel.

- Objects and surfaces cool, and may take a long time to warm back up even after the air has achieved temp. Some people object to their furniture, walls and other "things" feeling cold when they get home. A higher set back temp maintains "things" at higher temperatures.

- Humidity can be an issue, especially if you have a very tight house and/or you use a humidifier so that you have high trapped humidity in the house. If you then let your house temperature drop a lot, the relative humidity can get quite high. This might cause condensation issues on windows, etc.

Best procedure, start somewhere, and if everything is fine when you get home, set it back another degree. Keep doing that until you don't like the results. If you have just a simple thermostat that uses the same times and temps each of the setback days, try being more aggressive in your setback temp in the spring and fall, less so in the dead of winter because of recovery time.

[MJZiggy]

Sounds complicated. I just moved someplace warmer so I don't have to worry about it as much.

[Patler]

Sounds complicated. I just moved someplace warmer so I don't have to worry about it as much.

Hey, I thought my conclusion was pretty simple! :lol:
Just start somewhere and keep setting it back more and more until you find your tolerance point!

Now, lets talk about saving on that AC bill......... :lol:

[Guiness]

Roark, it doesn't get inefficient as the temperature goes lower, it actually gets more efficient. Heat loss will decrease as temperature inside your house approaches the temperature outside.

Patler's got it right in the first paragraph. You want to prevent your furnace from turning on during the day. The trick is to find the time to have the furnace turn back on so that the house reaches an acceptable temp when you get back.

The other factors Patler mentioned need to be considered, and I'll add that the type of plants you have in the house do as well. If you've got some tropicals, you don't want the temperature dipping much below 12-15C.

I'll also bring up curtains - if your windows aren't great, thermal backed curtains make a big difference.

And yes, AC is a totally different matter, mostly due to the amount of work central AC does removing the humidity from the house. It's better to 'set it and leave it.'

[SkinBasket]

I installed one in my parents house. Biggest mistake ever. My mom treats technology like a retard, just pushing buttons on things she doesn't understand to make a point - that she doesn't understand, and refuses to understand them. So every time I visit, I'm forced to reprogram the thing, explain how it works, explain how to adjust he temperature manually, and then get to hear, "Well, why don't we just put the old one back on?"

I usually keep the temp at 64-68 during the day, and hit spikes of 70 at 4am when my wife gets up and at 5p when she gets home so she doesn't complain.

[MJZiggy]

Hey, I thought my conclusion was pretty simple! :lol:
Just start somewhere and keep setting it back more and more until you find your tolerance point!

Now, lets talk about saving on that AC bill......... :lol:

Where I live we have lots of trees. I only run AC a couple days a year...:taunt:

[mraynrand]

I have only two settings on my thermostat: Hot and Smokin'!

[Upnorth]

We have a century home with radiant heat. We just leave the temp constant all the time as if you let the temp come down, then the radiant takes awhie to catch up and then it shoots right by and gets way to hot.
The home we own is twice the size of our last house but with radiant heat it cost half as much to heat. That and when you come in from -40 there is no better feeling than sitting on a radiator full of hot water.

[mraynrand]

We have a century home with radiant heat. We just leave the temp constant all the time as if you let the temp come down, then the radiant takes awhie to catch up and then it shoots right by and gets way to hot.
The home we own is twice the size of our last house but with radiant heat it cost half as much to heat. That and when you come in from -40 there is no better feeling than sitting on a radiator full of hot water.


There's a regulator you can get that prevents this overheating. It's a bit pricey, but well worth it. We let the place go down to 60 during the day and overnight. Takes an hour, hour 1/2 to heat back up, but we have a lot of rooms with high ceilings so more volume - and it's a 1923 house..... Any lower than 60 and it takes too long to heat.

[GrnBay007]

My thermostat is really easy to operate. Be the first one up in the morning to give the house a burst of heat so I'm able to get my teens out of bed!! Once we are ready to go the temp goes way down till about 7pm.

[woodbuck27]

I think it depends on all sorts of interesting things like what temperature you want the room to be when you get home. I let mine drop to 64 in the winter and then incrementally increase it so that it's 70 when I get back. Most people I know in Wisconsin would never dream of keeping it as warm as 70 in the winter (that's what you have a sweater for, dear). In other words, I think the smart people will need another number to the the math comparison between the BTUs to maintain a certain temperature and those required to increase it.

WOW! Alot goin' on in that response.

[woodbuck27]

Where I live we have lots of trees. I only run AC a couple days a year...:taunt:

How many trees then, do you have to move indoors?

[woodbuck27]

Roark, it doesn't get inefficient as the temperature goes lower, it actually gets more efficient. Heat loss will decrease as temperature inside your house approaches the temperature outside.

Patler's got it right in the first paragraph. You want to prevent your furnace from turning on during the day. The trick is to find the time to have the furnace turn back on so that the house reaches an acceptable temp when you get back.

The other factors Patler mentioned need to be considered, and I'll add that the type of plants you have in the house do as well. If you've got some tropicals, you don't want the temperature dipping much below 12-15C.

I'll also bring up curtains - if your windows aren't great, thermal backed curtains make a big difference.

And yes, AC is a totally different matter, mostly due to the amount of work central AC does removing the humidity from the house. It's better to 'set it and leave it.'

You and I might be in the same field Guiness.

I'm an Engineering Technologist in Industrial Instrumentation and Control Technology and also in a practical sense an Electrical Technician. I have a BEd in Technology Education and Vocational Training.

Ohh ! Just for those not familiar with the conversions of Celcius Degrees to Farenheit Dgrees and vice versa


Celcius Degrees to Farenheit Degrees:

Celcius Degrees X 9/5 (Plus 32 Degees) = Farenheit degrees

Farenheit Degrees to Celcius degrees:

F Degrees (minus 32 degrees) X 5/9 = Degrees C

[MJZiggy]

You and I might be in the same field Guiness.

I'm an Engineering Technologist in Industrial Instrumentation and Control Technology and also in a practical sense an Electrical Technician. I have a BEd in Technology Education and Vocational Training.

Ohh ! Just for those not familiar with the conversions of Celcius Degrees to Farenheit Dgrees and vice versa


Celcius Degrees to Farenheit Degrees:

Celcius Degrees X 9/5 (Plus 32 Degees) = Farenheit degrees

Farenheit Degrees to Celcius degrees:

F Degrees (minus 32 degrees) X 5/9 = Degrees C

You can just type it into the calculator on the internet and it will tell you. Congrats. You are now obsolete.

[mraynrand]

You can just type it into the calculator on the internet and it will tell you. Congrats. You are now obsolete.

I bet he can calculate it faster than you can enter it into your computer. http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/features/mike_mulligan/images/maryanne.gif

[hoosier]

Woodbuck can calculate in one day what it would take a hundred men a week.

[mraynrand]

Woodbuck can calculate in one day what it would take a hundred men a week.

He'll enter that manually
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/01/harryporter.jpg

[woodbuck27]

He'll enter that manually
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/01/harryporter.jpg

hahahaw

[woodbuck27]

You can just type it into the calculator on the internet and it will tell you. Congrats. You are now obsolete.

Calculator?? I'm not Ole woodbuck27 for nothing MJ.

[woodbuck27]

There's a regulator you can get that prevents this overheating. It's a bit pricey, but well worth it. We let the place go down to 60 during the day and overnight. Takes an hour, hour 1/2 to heat back up, but we have a lot of rooms with high ceilings so more volume - and it's a 1923 house..... Any lower than 60 and it takes too long to heat.

One thing for sure. Your not forced into the spare bedroom.

[wootah]

iPod lead designer Tony Fadell launches "Learning Thermostat".

Tony Fadell led the team that designed the iPod at Apple, and contributed to the start of the iPhone project. He's often described as the 'father' of the iPod. But when the former Apple executive's new 'stealth' start-up finally unveiled the product it was working on, it raised a few eyebrows.

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/nest_wood.jpg

But once the clatter of jaws hitting the floor died down, it's clear that Fadell's thermostat is rather different from the unresponsive beige units in most homes. NestLabs, his Silicon Valley start-up, aims to bring a bit of iPod-esque cool to electricity management in the home - and to save home-owners a large amount of money.

The Nest Learning Thermostat aims to overcome the glaring defect of programmable thermostats - the fact that 89 per cent of people don't bother to program them. Tony Fadell's new start-up Nest Labs has created a thermostat that 'learns' your schedule without being programmed. Built-in sensors also alert you if you leave the home
'It was unacceptable to me that the device that controls 10 per cent of all energy consumed in the U.S. hadn't kept up with advancements in technology and design,' said Fadell.
'I set out to reinvent the thermostat using the thoughtful design elements the iPhone generation has come to expect.'

Nest programs itself based on the temperatures you set it to during the week - its machine-learning algorithms work out a 'schedule' for you, and it sets itself accordingly, turning down heating or air-con to save energy. Nest doesn't 'learn' once then switch off, either - it keeps 'learning'. It also uses sensors to detect when you've left the house, and automatically turns down the heat while you're out.

The device can be programmed via any smartphone, tablet or PC via wi-fi - and automatically 'guides' you to more energy-efficient settings.

The device is due out in America priced at $249 in November. There is no confirmed release date for other territories.

link (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2053343/Learning-thermostat-iPod-father-Tony-Fadell-unveils-new-Nest-Labs-gadget.html)

[MJZiggy]

I wonder if it can tell the difference between the work week and weekend. In other words, NOT turn down if I am here unexpectedly.

[Upnorth]

There's a regulator you can get that prevents this overheating. It's a bit pricey, but well worth it. We let the place go down to 60 during the day and overnight. Takes an hour, hour 1/2 to heat back up, but we have a lot of rooms with high ceilings so more volume - and it's a 1923 house..... Any lower than 60 and it takes too long to heat.

Sounds alot like our 1917 home. 10' ceilings on main, 9' on second and sloped up to 14' on the third floor. Does the regulator strap on the pipes to cut out the furnance? We have that already, but when the water gets to 160 - 170 it takes a long time to cool down. There is a alot of water in the system as it is original furnace, and I have no desire to up grade as it only costs about 90 ish per month to heat versus 10 grand for an efficent boiler big enough for our house.
So what does the regulator do and where does it go?

[Scott Campbell]

I'm an Engineering Technologist in Industrial Instrumentation and Control Technology and also in a practical sense an Electrical Technician. I have a BEd in Technology Education and Vocational Training.




Hopefully you learned all that stuff in less time than it took you to learn the "ignore" feature.

[Partial]

Next gen thermostat.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/25/ipod-fathers-unveil-their-next-project-the-nest-learning-thermo/

[mraynrand]

I need one of these for my wife

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/nest_wood.jpg

waitasecond....Is there a similarity there? Ooooo...I think there is...

http://www.theclixgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/hal9000.jpg

[woodbuck27]

I need one of these for my wife

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/nest_wood.jpg

waitasecond....Is there a similarity there? Ooooo...I think there is...

http://www.theclixgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/hal9000.jpg

WOW that's so sad. You heat your large house with a stove element. OK great and ... enterprizing! Keeps the water boiling for coffee, tea, hot chocolat and hot dogs.