Spoiled and Negative

[Fritz]

I saw a headline in the GBPG by Vandermeuse that was along the lines of "7 - 0 Start Means Nothing if Packers Don't Win Championship."

Really? Nothing at all? Going 0 - 7, 1 - 6, being, say, the Minnesota Vikings or the Miami Dolphins would be just as good as going 7 - 0 and not winning the championship? Really?

Are we that whiny and spoiled? Has it come to that?

I am so sick of bitchy, whiny fans - 70% of whom probably give a half-assed effort in their own lives, their own jobs, their own marriages, their own parenting - who bitch that it's not good enough if they don't win it all.

Okay, we want to have them win it all. I do. But can we at least appreciate what's been done so far, and not dismiss it out of hand?

[MJZiggy]

We aren't. The press on the other hand are so desperate for something to write about that they're willing to pull the shit right out of their asses. The fact that I look at their play and can still see areas that need improvement despite the record, does NOT mean I don't appreciate the record. I love the gutty performances this team has produced this season and last.

[channtheman]

I would be disappointed if we didn't win it all, but I in no way expect to. There are too many things that can happen to expect to win the Super Bowl, even if you do start 7-0. That is a ridiculous statement.

[Lurker64]

Well, strictly speaking, is anybody's record really meaningful after 7 weeks? Your record is, first and foremost, only relevant in one way: determining whether or not you get in the playoffs. Through seven weeks, nobody has clinched yet and nobody has been mathematically eliminated. The only other way your record really matters is in determining playoff seeding or draft order, and being a high seed in the playoffs doesn't guarantee you anything (c.f. 2010 Packers and Falcons), and having a high draft pick doesn't guarantee you anything (c.f. the Raiders in the 2007 draft).

So is it possible for your record after week 7 actually "means something." I mean, the teams that that are more or less guaranteed to miss the playoffs at that point are in that position, less because of their schedule, and more because they are bad teams and wouldn't be willing to have the final 10 weeks you need anyway. The teams that are more or less guaranteed to make the playoffs at this point are in that position mostly because they're good teams, and they're going to win a bunch of games down the stretch because of how good they are. The only thing a record really does at this point is help reveal which teams are good, and which teams are ungood.

[Joemailman]

I think what Vandermause is saying is that years from now people won't remember the 7-0 start very much if they don't win it all. I think he's speaking more from a historical perspective rather than what Packer fans are feeling this year. As he points out, who remembers that the Colts started 7-0 in 2007? Here's the link to the story: http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111026/PKR07/111026155/Mike-Vandermause-column-7-0-start-means-little-Packers-can-t-finish-champs?odyssey=mod|lateststories

[gbpackfan]

OMG - Listen to the post game show on AM620 after the packers win. It will drive you crazy!!!! Caller after caller say the same damn thing...."Well, we won but......" And that is always followed by a negative tyraid about the Packers. Most fans aren't happy unless they can rip apart their team. It must be human nature. I hate it.

[TravisWilliams23]

7-0 is a tremendous accomplishment for any team and in particular this Packer team.

I can't think of many, if any, team that could have lost an all-pro safety, in addition to the starters who have missed games due to injuries
and still had enough depth to win every game they've played so far. It speaks volumes to the organization from top to bottom.

The really scary thing is that this team hasn't played it's best football yet. The defense isn't playing at championship level yet and
even though the offense is carrying the team, they have room for improvement. Especially closing out opponents in the 2nd half of games.

Records really mean nothing if you can't win it all. Just ask the 18-1 Patriots. So yes, Vandermause is correct about people not remembering the 7-0 start but that's always been the case. Nothing new about that.

[channtheman]

OMG - Listen to the post game show on AM620 after the packers win. It will drive you crazy!!!! Caller after caller say the same damn thing...."Well, we won but......" And that is always followed by a negative tyraid about the Packers. Most fans aren't happy unless they can rip apart their team. It must be human nature. I hate it.

I'm going to have to disagree here. There is nothing wrong with hoping the Packers can improve and listing areas that you believe they can work on. Besides, how boring would it be if we all just said "Packers are GOD LIKE" and then one by one we agreed with each other and high fived?

[mraynrand]

I am so sick of bitchy, whiny fans

Stop bitching and whining about bitchy whiny fans. And for the record, I give at least 55% effort 55% of the time.

[Fritz]

Okay, I read the article again, and joe's right - it's more about historical perspective. It's not as negative as it first seemed.

I'se wrong.

[RashanGary]

There is some merit though.

When AR throws a TD pass, I get excited like I threw a TD pass. When Bishop makes a big hit, I feel adrenaline like I made a big hit. Winning the SB, it's the ultimate accomplishment. As a fan, I feel like I'm a part of it. But I never have to risk anything. I never have to try. I can sit and bitch and then when everything comes to fruition, I can celebrate like it's mine too.

I think you're darn right. There are a bunch of fans who have nothing going in their own damn lives and are afraid or too unmotivated to try. No knock on them, who can judge a man without walking a mile in his shoes?, but I'll bet there are quite a few of these fans and these are probably the ones who take all their bitching and moaning out on the Packers. Hey, it's better than looking in the mirror and owning it themselves.

There are ups, downs and all-arounds in football as well as life. Somewhere there is a line where you go from feeling the pain of the moment and moving on, to living in it's misery. Packer misery beats personnel misery. Misery isn't consciously chosen. It's a byproduct of other intents.

[Brandon494]

As a Packers fan I've been spoiled for sure having Farve and Rodgers being the starting QBs since I became a fan. I'm not a fan that's whines though if we win ugly unless it cost me a lost in fantasy. :)

[Deputy Nutz]

Honestly I think a lot of people in Wisconsin were pretty beatup last weekend with the Badgers losing a heartbreaker in Michigan, and the Brewers being knocked out of the Playoffs the weekend before. I think there was some expectations that the Packers were going to blow out the Vikings by 30 points. Packer fan loves Packer football, but very few of them watch other games in the NFL. The Packers defense isn't very good, but defense in the NFL isn't very good any more. For godsakes have you seen how bad Indy is? To lose by 50 plus is a complete embarassement, this is the NFL everyone is a professional and to lose by that much is ridiculous. You just have to wonder what would have happened to the Packers if over the past 20 something years if they lost Favre or Rodgers for any significant amount of time.

[gbpackfan]

I'm going to have to disagree here. There is nothing wrong with hoping the Packers can improve and listing areas that you believe they can work on. Besides, how boring would it be if we all just said "Packers are GOD LIKE" and then one by one we agreed with each other and high fived?

No one is saying there isn't room for improvement. But many want perfection each and every week. No longer satisfied with a win. Being a fan doesn't mean you rip apart your team after every WIN. There is a fine line between being constructive and being negative. Most fans, no matter what the sport, aren't happy unless they are bitching. Plain and simple.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Packer fan loves Packer football, but very few of them watch other games in the NFL.

If you are saying this in general about fans of all teams, then I can go with that. However, I've been around fans of other teams, and I've found that Packer fans generally are much more knowledgeable about other teams than fans of other teams (especially Viking fans). Most Viking fans have no idea whether guys like Josh Sitton or Desmond Bishop are any good, and most will talk about the bad year that Clay Matthews is having because he only has 3 sacks. Stuff like that drives me crazy.

[sharpe1027]

Most fans, no matter what the sport, aren't happy unless they are bitching. Plain and simple.

You just described most Vikings fans to a T. The good Vikings posters that might still be lurking here notwithstanding. ;)

[KYPack]

All our rivals have the best and worst football fans in the world. I've had great football discussions with Viking, Lion, and yes, Bear fans. Face it, the midwest is where the NFL started and the Packers, Bears and Lions were the key teams that got it going. The Vikings were late comers, but that rivalry is a great one over the years.

In 07, I had a great time talking to a long time Lion fan in Curly's pub. It turned out to be Bert's last home game at Lambeau. This guy traveled to GB to see his home team. The guy and his family were fantastic football fans and were very complimentary towards Green Bay and the Lambeau mystique. The guy commented how jealous he had always been of the Pack and Lambeau field. He made me realize how lucky we Pack fans are that we can go back to the ballpark where all these great championships have been won. When I told him my family maintained season tickets during the whole 60's run, he asked to go see 'em. Me and his family made our way to our old season tickets. The guy then proceeded to recount all the great wins that had happened in the 'ol ballyard. The guy told the kids a story his dad told him about the '62 Packer Lion game. The Lions had one of their best teams of all time. They were winning 7-6 running out the final seconds of the game. On 3rd down, rookie Packer CB Herb Adderley (playing in his first game at CB) picked off a pass that lead to a last second GB victory. The guy kind of choked out the last words of his tale, and I looked at him. He had tears streaming down his cheeks over a long ago loss.

Then it hit me. Over the last 75 years, we've left these Lion, Bear and Viking fans crying their eyes out. I felt great thinking about all them poor crybabies.

[vince]

That is a post of beauty KY. Packer fans are spoiled indeed.

[channtheman]

No one is saying there isn't room for improvement. But many want perfection each and every week. No longer satisfied with a win. Being a fan doesn't mean you rip apart your team after every WIN. There is a fine line between being constructive and being negative. Most fans, no matter what the sport, aren't happy unless they are bitching. Plain and simple.

I think I misunderstood. Ripping the Packers to shreds after ever win gets old. Constructive criticism I am all for though.

[channtheman]

All our rivals have the best and worst football fans in the world. I've had great football discussions with Viking, Lion, and yes, Bear fans. Face it, the midwest is where the NFL started and the Packers, Bears and Lions were the key teams that got it going. The Vikings were late comers, but that rivalry is a great one over the years.

In 07, I had a great time talking to a long time Lion fan in Curly's pub. It turned out to be Bert's last home game at Lambeau. This guy traveled to GB to see his home team. The guy and his family were fantastic football fans and were very complimentary towards Green Bay and the Lambeau mystique. The guy commented how jealous he had always been of the Pack and Lambeau field. He made me realize how lucky we Pack fans are that we can go back to the ballpark where all these great championships have been won. When I told him my family maintained season tickets during the whole 60's run, he asked to go see 'em. Me and his family made our way to our old season tickets. The guy then proceeded to recount all the great wins that had happened in the 'ol ballyard. The guy told the kids a story his dad told him about the '62 Packer Lion game. The Lions had one of their best teams of all time. They were winning 7-6 running out the final seconds of the game. On 3rd down, rookie Packer CB Herb Adderley (playing in his first game at CB) picked off a pass that lead to a last second GB victory. The guy kind of choked out the last words of his tale, and I looked at him. He had tears streaming down his cheeks over a long ago loss.

Then it hit me. Over the last 75 years, we've left these Lion, Bear and Viking fans crying their eyes out. I felt great thinking about all them poor crybabies.

I may be distraught after a huge loss such as the 4th and 26 Eagles game, etc. But I have never, nor will I ever, cry about it. Holy shit what a pussy.

[woodbuck27]

I saw a headline in the GBPG by Vandermeuse that was along the lines of "7 - 0 Start Means Nothing if Packers Don't Win Championship."

Really? Nothing at all? Going 0 - 7, 1 - 6, being, say, the Minnesota Vikings or the Miami Dolphins would be just as good as going 7 - 0 and not winning the championship? Really?

Are we that whiny and spoiled? Has it come to that?

I am so sick of bitchy, whiny fans - 70% of whom probably give a half-assed effort in their own lives, their own jobs, their own marriages, their own parenting - who bitch that it's not good enough if they don't win it all.

Okay, we want to have them win it all. I do. But can we at least appreciate what's been done so far, and not dismiss it out of hand?

Just my thoughts on this. As Green Bay Packer fans we are spoiled somewhat. We expect to win. We now enjoy the fact that we have another Super Bowl. That'a awesome.

Let's all be grateful...please. Do we have to wait till Christmas for those feelings PackerRats? Now I'm NOT sure that this post could single out any member here. Not as I see PackerRats 'of late'.

I know how dedicated some fans are, we're all that here at PackerRats. Often we get too worried, get picky. I've been there at times and always realized my error. Can't we try to just lighten up a wee bit and truly savour this fine Paker team.

I'm a serious fan. I re-call two decades of when it was really tough to be a loyal Packer fan. The Green Bay PACKERS back in the 1970's and 1980's, early 1990's we're really struggling to post wins little more... great seasons. We had to wait for better times. Wait, wait and then wait some more. We took any reason we could find to feel a positive for OUR PACKERS! It's really tough to get a team to the top and we're there. Wec are the number one, the team to beat to win a Super Bowl. We are the SUPER BOWL Champions again and finally. THe PACKER Franchise is bac to the GLORY we as fans expect not just wish for. What's to really complain about now. I want to enjoy the process as we win OUR second straight Super Bowl. I believe we will win this season. Can yo join me now. Can you accept me as a Packer fan who's optimistic and truly believing we have the horses to repeat?

PLEASE. Be happy and celebrate that fact. Every other team looks at us now as that team to beat. I enjoy that as a positive.

Why? Because it can 'only' last so long.

What goes up. MUST come down. So enjoy OUR friuits. CELEBRATE as dignified LOYAL Packer fans. Be humble and yes look forward to more success but keep the kharma positive please.

Again I'm NOT sure any fan here at PackerRats isn't just as positive as I am.Well no;some will not believe a repeat is possible. Once I never thought that we would enjoy a Super Bowl with TT as OUR GM. I'm so glad, so happy I was wrong.

GO PACKERS !

[MadtownPacker]

Besides, how boring would it be if we all just said "Packers are GOD LIKE" and then one by one we agreed with each other and high fived?
It wouldn't be boring. We would just be bears fans.

Their is nothing wrong with bitching about the team as long as it is legit. To be honest I enjoyed Sundays game. It was the shit, to put it best. Rodgers versus Ponder was great. Way better than the Rams slaughter the week before. IMO if they win it is all good and all is forgiven. SOme just take longer to forgive. :lol:

[Pugger]

I suspect a lot of the younger fans are the ones who might be spoiled, those that don't recall the 'dark times'. We old...I mean mature fans remember what it was like back in the 70s and 80s. Wins were few are far between and GB became the Siberia of the NFL. I remember a first round pick - he was defensive lineman but I can't recall his name right now - opted to go to Canada rather than GB. It wasn't until Harlan was team prez and hired Wolf that the entire way the franchise was run had changed and we began this amazing stretch of success with only a couple of bumps in the road.

[mraynrand]

Packer fan loves Packer football, but very few of them watch other games in the NFL.


I don't know if this is true, but one thing I do know is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But seriously folks, one of the best inventions ever is "Short Cuts" on DirecTV - every game distilled into a half hour of just the plays. It is awesome. I now watch up to four five games a week. Unfortunately, my wife says I can't concentrate and lack attention span. Oh shit, here she comes.

[mraynrand]

I may be distraught after a huge loss such as the 4th and 26 Eagles game, etc. But I have never, nor will I ever, cry about it. Holy shit what a pussy.

+1. I thrown things sometimes, the kids think I'm nuts, and the wife has to scold me. But crying? Geezus - man up for crissakes!

[K-town]

Pugger:
Bruce Clark (of Penn State?) went to Canada rather than joining the Packers in, I believe, 1980.
10 years earlier, it was Stillwagon from Ohio State that opted for Oh Canada. I'm sure Patler knows the particulars.

[sharpe1027]

Brian Bosworth made it clear that he did not want to play for the Packers, but he was doing them a favor.

[pbmax]

Honestly I think a lot of people in Wisconsin were pretty beatup last weekend with the Badgers losing a heartbreaker in Michigan, and the Brewers being knocked out of the Playoffs the weekend before. I think there was some expectations that the Packers were going to blow out the Vikings by 30 points. Packer fan loves Packer football, but very few of them watch other games in the NFL. The Packers defense isn't very good, but defense in the NFL isn't very good any more. For godsakes have you seen how bad Indy is? To lose by 50 plus is a complete embarassement, this is the NFL everyone is a professional and to lose by that much is ridiculous. You just have to wonder what would have happened to the Packers if over the past 20 something years if they lost Favre or Rodgers for any significant amount of time.

I have rarely seen a game that brutal. Even Pittsburgh's win versus the expansion Browns 2.0 wasn't the same mismatch. I completely misjudged that team. I thought they would rebound to win several games after Manning was out and Collins came in, but its a tire fire.

The GBPG is doing what all sports media is doing these days, telling fans what they are doing wrong.

[pbmax]

Pugger:
Bruce Clark (of Penn State?) went to Canada rather than joining the Packers in, I believe, 1980.
10 years earlier, it was Stillwagon from Ohio State that opted for Oh Canada. I'm sure Patler knows the particulars.

Tom Cousineau out of Ohio State refused to play for the Bills and went to the CFL.

[Patler]

John Elway was drafted by the Colts, but refused to play for them and threatened to play baseball instead. Since he had been a 2nd round pick by the Yankees a couple years earlier, and had already played played quite well in the minors for the Yankees, it was a serious threat. The Colts traded him to Denver.

[woodbuck27]

I suspect a lot of the younger fans are the ones who might be spoiled, those that don't recall the 'dark times'. We old...I mean mature fans remember what it was like back in the 70s and 80s. Wins were few are far between and GB became the Siberia of the NFL. I remember a first round pick - he was defensive lineman but I can't recall his name right now - opted to go to Canada rather than GB. It wasn't until Harlan was team prez and hired Wolf that the entire way the franchise was run had changed and we began this amazing stretch of success with only a couple of bumps in the road.

Hey ! Old Timer!! (-:

P A C K E R S FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

I don't know if this is true, but one thing I do know is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But seriously folks, one of the best inventions ever is "Short Cuts" on DirecTV - every game distilled into a half hour of just the plays. It is awesome. I now watch up to four five games a week. Unfortunately, my wife says I can't concentrate and lack attention span. Oh shit, here she comes.

Hang in there. Make supper once in awhile. Get her flowers. Anything... to watch NFL games.

Especially 'the PACKERS' ! There's 'the really BIG Shoe'.

[woodbuck27]

Brian Bosworth made it clear that he did not want to play for the Packers, but he was doing them a favor.

Excellent re-call !

P A C K E R S !

[Patler]

Pugger:
Bruce Clark (of Penn State?) went to Canada rather than joining the Packers in, I believe, 1980.
10 years earlier, it was Stillwagon from Ohio State that opted for Oh Canada. I'm sure Patler knows the particulars.

Stillwagon may not have had an NFL position. He was a short, 220 lb MG at Ohio State. He dropped in the draft, simply because NFL teams didn't know where to play him. Rather than try a switch to LB, which the Packers wanted him to do, he went to Canada and spent his pro career there. I think he only played 5-6 years.

I remember being quite interested in seeing what the Packers would do with him, because he was a great college player. All-American a couple times, Outland Trophy winner, etc.

I don't think he went to Canada because the Packers drafted him. I think he felt he fit the game in Canada better. He was probably right.

[Upnorth]

You run a lot more in the CFL than the NFL. Bigger field plus way more special teams plays makes for more energy demand. Big guys have trouble keeping up.