Is Denver running the option?

[Guiness]

I saw a couple of plays from the Denver game.

I'm certainly no expert - but is that not an option offense they're running? Been a long time since there's been anything like that in the NFL. Seems like he's putting the ball in McGahee's stomach, while he's looking around to decide if he's going to take off running. It did seem like he also had a couple of play action style plays off of that, in particular the TD pass to Royal.

This might work for Denver, for a while at least, just because NFL D's are so unfamiliar with it. Speed kills though, and NFL D's have a lot of that.

[pbmax]

I saw a couple of plays from the Denver game.

I'm certainly no expert - but is that not an option offense they're running? Been a long time since there's been anything like that in the NFL. Seems like he's putting the ball in McGahee's stomach, while he's looking around to decide if he's going to take off running. It did seem like he also had a couple of play action style plays off of that, in particular the TD pass to Royal.

This might work for Denver, for a while at least, just because NFL D's are so unfamiliar with it. Speed kills though, and NFL D's have a lot of that.

You betcha. Seems like Fox and Elway decided to give Tebow a real fighting chance by using an offense that suits him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/07/fox-option-has-been-done-in-nfl-but-not-at-level-we-did-it/

I think Elway is thinking what you are thinking when he says the completion percentage has to go up. At some point, teams will scheme to stop the read-option and a pass will need to find the correct receiver at more than a 50% clip.

[Guiness]

I was not previously familiar with the term 'read option'. I looked a bit, and it was also used in reference to Cam Newton.

Looks like it means an option play with a shotgun formation, and the QB makes the decision to hand the ball off or not based on the actions of a specific defensive player - a DE or OLB?

[Fritz]

The way the old Michigan option was run in Schembecler's day was that the QB would usually roll out with a tailback trailing and about four or five yards to the far side of the QB. The QB would look for a hole between the tackle and a linebacker or corner or safety and if it was there, he'd take it. If not, he'd stretch it out and once a couple defenders committed to him, he'd pitch it to the tailback, who would go around the end.

This worked pretty well until the beginning of the 20th century. Bo, however, never gave it up. His last decade at Michigan was kinda sad. It was clear the game had passed him by.

[Guiness]

The way the old Michigan option was run in Schembecler's day was that the QB would usually roll out with a tailback trailing and about four or five yards to the far side of the QB. The QB would look for a hole between the tackle and a linebacker or corner or safety and if it was there, he'd take it. If not, he'd stretch it out and once a couple defenders committed to him, he'd pitch it to the tailback, who would go around the end.

This worked pretty well until the beginning of the 20th century. Bo, however, never gave it up. His last decade at Michigan was kinda sad. It was clear the game had passed him by.

Well. You just described the entire playbook of my university team in two sentences. The way the QB did the pitch was he would kind of drop to one knee and do a strange sort of toss, almost like the motion you use to throw a dart, to the back.

[mraynrand]

I was not previously familiar with the term 'read option'. I looked a bit, and it was also used in reference to Cam Newton.

Looks like it means an option play with a shotgun formation, and the QB makes the decision to hand the ball off or not based on the actions of a specific defensive player - a DE or OLB?

I watched the game on shortcuts. I don't think it has to be the DE or the LB - just that the read is whether the outside contain commits. It it does, Tebow keeps it.

Seriously though, The Broncos beat the living crap out of the Raiders in the run game. About 300 yards worth. McGahee was exceptional - ran with power and finesse. It was a thing of beauty that you just don't see much of outside Minnesota. The Raiders had to be wondering when they'd get their guy (McFadden) back.

In the future, it wouldn't surprise me to see teams putting 8-9 in the box and daring Tebow to throw to Decker covered in man. I bet they win that most of the time.

But for this week, I gotta hand it to John Fox. I bet that guy could coach a cat to swim a 100 meter freestyle.

[pbmax]

I was not previously familiar with the term 'read option'. I looked a bit, and it was also used in reference to Cam Newton.

Looks like it means an option play with a shotgun formation, and the QB makes the decision to hand the ball off or not based on the actions of a specific defensive player - a DE or OLB?

Exactly. It was used by various teams and figures in the past, notably Rich Rodriguez at West Virginia. But with Rich Rod, it was very much a read option and the second option was often a QB run.

Urban Meyer, the man that trained young Timmy, used RichRod's concepts and others to develop the read option and add in a passing option. His first success was at Bowling Green* (I think , prehaps Toledo?) and then used to near perfection by Alex Smith at Utah.

Newton also ran some read-option (not sure what flavor used at Auburn) but his physical skills also meant he translated pretty well to a traditional drop back passer in the classic NFL mode.


*This stop qualified Urban for later success under the Federal Law that all successful coaches must spend part of their careers in Ohio or very nearby (Pittsburgh qualifies).

[pbmax]

Well, somewhere on this site is an article, or link to an article about how Meyer came to his passing zone read which he first ran to national prominence at Utah. But here are two articles that describe what is happening in that play, though one forcuses on new permutations and the other on defending it.

http://smartfootball.com/defending-spread/defending-the-zone-read-athleticism-and-the-scrape-exchange

http://smartfootball.com/run-game/oregons-zone-read-of-the-defensive-tackle

[pbmax]

HA! Found it.

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offense.html


Someday someone will invent a search engine that knows what I want regardless of the inanities I type into the search query box. That person will be very, very rich.

[bobblehead]

This stuff doesn't work in the NFL. You might take teams by surprise and have a good 8 week run, but D's catch up by playoff time (if you make playoffs).

Run first QB's have never succeeded at this level. If Mr. Tebow wants a career, he will have to learn to read a D, pass the ball, and be mobile without running unless its necessary. ARod is the best I have ever seen at using his legs to buy time while keeping his focus downfield to throw it, and then still being able to run when necessary.

[pbmax]

This stuff doesn't work in the NFL. You might take teams by surprise and have a good 8 week run, but D's catch up by playoff time (if you make playoffs).

Run first QB's have never succeeded at this level. If Mr. Tebow wants a career, he will have to learn to read a D, pass the ball, and be mobile without running unless its necessary. ARod is the best I have ever seen at using his legs to buy time while keeping his focus downfield to throw it, and then still being able to run when necessary.

First, the NFL prior to the 1960's would like to speak to you.

Second, it IS working as most teams have adopted most, if not all, of the passing principles of the run and shoot and the spread into current offenses. So whack job college offenses always find their way into the NFL. If you don't think that shotgun offense with 3-5 WRs/TE/RB is a spread, then you simply have chosen to not believe your eyes.

Both Urban Meyer and Mike Leach think it would work and convention (coaching experience, draft strategy and roster construction) are what is keeping it from happening.

Tebow might be the first player who has the physical attributes to survive such a system (maybe Newton) that includes the QB run options.

Not only will it happen, but sometime soon, the Jets method (or to a lesser degree Ravens/Steelers) of stifling defense and run game will be married to a non-traditional pass offense to great success. Bad teams who are running a conventional NFL system that do not have the necessary players are simply deluding themselves that they will have a chance to win short term. Teams like the Lions and 49ers who have seemingly instant turnarounds would have no such hope were it not for years of drafting high in the first round. Which means years of losing must precede the winning window.

The real oddity I wonder about is whether teams, if they were dependent upon the gate and cash receipts rather than franchise valuation, would be more willing to try riskier schemes.

[mraynrand]

I think the main reason Denver is risking it is that Tebow cannot throw a consistently accurate ball.

The main reason the NFL won't run this stuff is that your QB becomes a running back, and his lifespan decreases dramatically. The league rules are geared to protect a passing QB but not necessarily a running QB. Teams are trying to knock QBs out of the game, because that is your best chance to win. If the QB runs the ball, that's just playing into their hands. The Ravens and Steelers would be absolutely licking their chops to play a team with a running QB. They get to slaughter the guy, and not get 15 yard penalties/fines for their efforts.

Look at Matthews and Kolb last year. One run and the entire QB position is up for grabs. Same thing for Rodgers at Detroit.

[pbmax]

Agreed. That is why a desperate team with a shortage of good QBs will tinker with this until someone figures out how to keep the QB off the IR or finds a QB who will survive. The QB would take less pounding than a traditional RB because he can handoff or throw before deciding to run. I think Tebow could be that survivor.

[Guiness]

First, the NFL prior to the 1960's would like to speak to you.


Not saying you're right or wrong, but come on - the 60's NFL has nothing to do with what's going on on the field today.

The option has a long, successful history in college ball, you maybe it can be adapted. It's not the Wildcat, which was just a matter of D's figuring out what the hell was going on.

[ThunderDan]

I know the reason "whack job" offenses work in the collegate rank is simply the lack of talent. You can dictate an offense in college that if you have a "smart" enough QB to run you can always force a 1-on-1 match up. In college with 100+ teams, other than 5 or 6 of the really big boys, there is not enough talent to expect your nickle corner to be able to win 1-on-1 match ups. Your nickle and dime corners are 18-19 year olds who are learning a defensive system. As soon as you develop a player and get him enough reps to be good he has been at college for 4 or 5 years and is drafted in the NFL.

The NFL is different. With defensive teams actual able to keep players and schemes together for multiple years you can quickly adapt to anything the offensive throws at you. At least until the rules are slanted so far to the offense that you can only try to slow the other team down.

[bobblehead]

First, the NFL prior to the 1960's would like to speak to you.

Second, it IS working as most teams have adopted most, if not all, of the passing principles of the run and shoot and the spread into current offenses. So whack job college offenses always find their way into the NFL. If you don't think that shotgun offense with 3-5 WRs/TE/RB is a spread, then you simply have chosen to not believe your eyes.

Both Urban Meyer and Mike Leach think it would work and convention (coaching experience, draft strategy and roster construction) are what is keeping it from happening.

Tebow might be the first player who has the physical attributes to survive such a system (maybe Newton) that includes the QB run options.

Not only will it happen, but sometime soon, the Jets method (or to a lesser degree Ravens/Steelers) of stifling defense and run game will be married to a non-traditional pass offense to great success. Bad teams who are running a conventional NFL system that do not have the necessary players are simply deluding themselves that they will have a chance to win short term. Teams like the Lions and 49ers who have seemingly instant turnarounds would have no such hope were it not for years of drafting high in the first round. Which means years of losing must precede the winning window.

The real oddity I wonder about is whether teams, if they were dependent upon the gate and cash receipts rather than franchise valuation, would be more willing to try riskier schemes.

I think you are confusing my positions on issues. This thread title was about the option. I was referring to run first QB's, or offenses built around a QB's legs. They don't work.