Tebow

[Brando19]

Wow...he only attempted 8 passes and completed 2 of them? And they won?!? How does this happen? They're 4-3 with him as their starter. The guys is the worst starting QB I can remember. I mean...2 for 8? WTF?!?!?!?

[Guiness]

ok, I've got to see this line...

I thought Chicago scoring 35+pts with under 200 yards of offense was weird. This trumps it.

[Guiness]

Haven't seen a line like that since...well, I never have. 55 runs, 8 passes. Woody Hayes would have been proud of that "three yards and a cloud of dust" display.

The NFL can't stand for that. The Broncos will be getting a call shortly telling them if they don't meet a minimum number of passes, they will be getting fined :D

[Brandon494]

and posted a 102 QB rating...smh

[pbmax]

In todays NFL, this is a gimmick offense and it's going to work until they play superior D teams with a set of film. Or, if teams give him all day long like he had on that TD, he is going to look like an All-Pro.

The true test will come later against competition from somewhere not named the AFC West.

[Guiness]

Yup. We talked about the option in another thread. This offense beat the team that...lost to Miami last week!

Wildcat did well for a year. Where is it now?

[Bretsky]

In todays NFL, this is a gimmick offense and it's going to work until they play superior D teams with a set of film. Or, if teams give him all day long like he had on that TD, he is going to look like an All-Pro.

The true test will come later against competition from somewhere not named the AFC West.


such as..........Thursday vs. the Jets

[pbmax]

such as..........Thursday vs. the Jets

Could be. The jets will have three weeks of film to review.

[gbgary]

most of tebows passes today were deep bombs that had a chance of being caught but weren't. he's not a good passer but he's getting the job done for denver.

[Upnorth]

MVP? All he does is win. (this is ment as sarcasm just so no one piles on me for saying this)

[Cheesehead Craig]

Tebow-mania is running wild. If they beat the Jets, it's gonna be near unstoppable.

[Tony Oday]

would you rather have Beck/Painter/Olovsky/Sexy Rexy?

[pbmax]

would you rather have Beck/Painter/Olovsky/Sexy Rexy?

I have thought before Orlovsky could play. But with this team, Tebow might be the best choice. He isn't the best passer in the group, but he might be the most talented player.

[pbmax]

Chris Brown on Tebow, the Browns and the possibility of success.

http://deadspin.com/5859263/is-tim-tebows-afraid+to+throw-broncos-offense-crazy-enough-to-work

[gbgary]

Chris Brown on Tebow, the Browns and the possibility of success.

http://deadspin.com/5859263/is-tim-tebows-afraid+to+throw-broncos-offense-crazy-enough-to-work

if he can just be an average passer the broncos could be real tough.

[Freak Out]

Not to disrespect what Denver has done....but if Haley keeps his job if KC's season continues along this track I'll be surprised. How in the hell do you lose THAT game at home and not lose the fans?

[denverYooper]

Decker dropped one other fairly nice longer pass that probably would have put Tebow up to 100 yards or so.

In fact, I don't remember Tebow badly sailing any passes yesterday as he's been prone to do so that's progress, I suppose.

[sharpe1027]

Decker dropped one other fairly nice longer pass that probably would have put Tebow up to 100 yards or so.

In fact, I don't remember Tebow badly sailing any passes yesterday as he's been prone to do so that's progress, I suppose.

I guess. Seems a tad early to say he improved when he only threw enough passes to account for one normal NFL drive, and several of the passes were bombs down field. Once he throws a normal game's worth of passes (30 or so) without sailing several passes, I'll be a bit more impressed. We'll revisit this analysis after waiting three games for him to get to 30 passes total.

[mraynrand]

Not to disrespect what Denver has done....but if Haley keeps his job if KC's season continues along this track I'll be surprised. How in the hell do you lose THAT game at home and not lose the fans?

I see your point about Haley, but nothing will stop Chiefs fans coming to Arrowhead, not even Marty Shottenheimer, come hell or high Grbac.

[MadScientist]

Decker dropped one other fairly nice longer pass that probably would have put Tebow up to 100 yards or so.

In fact, I don't remember Tebow badly sailing any passes yesterday as he's been prone to do so that's progress, I suppose.

The highlights did show him bouncing a short out pass. Looked like a right-hander throwing left-handed on that one. He wasn't hit on the play or anything, just threw it badly. The long TD was a nice pass.

They only scored 17 points, that won't strike fear into many teams this side of the Mississippi.

[Fritz]

This will not last. It only drives Denver deeper into Tebowism, gives them lower draft picks, and helps ensure their long-term failure.

[mraynrand]

The highlights did show him bouncing a short out pass. Looked like a right-hander throwing left-handed on that one. He wasn't hit on the play or anything, just threw it badly.


Looked like Jim Zorn, circa 1985

[Smeefers]

I really really really hate to do this because it's going to make me look like an idiot, but you guys have to stay with me through it, okay? please?

The reason Tebow is giving teams fits right now is the same reason Vick was giving teams fits when he came out. LB's haven't had to play against a college style system in ages and they're rusty at it. Once teams have a chance to game plan for this, a lot of the success will be taken out of it. It's a mistake prone style of offense and that's why its never stuck around the NFL for long, but in short spurts it has been proven advantageous. The reason the Falcons continued successfully after Vick's first year was because he was a legit passer too, so they could make some sort of hybrid college/pro offense for him. Tebow doesn't have a chance. If they try and pull this crap again next year, their division opponents will crush them.

[pbmax]

I really really really hate to do this because it's going to make me look like an idiot, but you guys have to stay with me through it, okay? please?

The reason Tebow is giving teams fits right now is the same reason Vick was giving teams fits when he came out. LB's haven't had to play against a college style system in ages and they're rusty at it. Once teams have a chance to game plan for this, a lot of the success will be taken out of it. It's a mistake prone style of offense and that's why its never stuck around the NFL for long, but in short spurts it has been proven advantageous. The reason the Falcons continued successfully after Vick's first year was because he was a legit passer too, so they could make some sort of hybrid college/pro offense for him. Tebow doesn't have a chance. If they try and pull this crap again next year, their division opponents will crush them.

I am pbmax and I approve this message.

[Lurker64]

Not to disrespect what Denver has done....but if Haley keeps his job if KC's season continues along this track I'll be surprised. How in the hell do you lose THAT game at home and not lose the fans?

Well, the Chiefs did lose their best offensive player (Jamal Charles), their best defensive player (Eric Berry) and a key offensive weapon (Tony Moeaki) to ACLs within like 3 weeks of the season starting. The Chiefs season was kind of over before it started.

[gbgary]

does it again!

[Freak Out]

How in the fuck did the Jest lose? Did Dirty Sanchez fuck it up again? Fucking Tebow...... :)

[gbgary]

How in the fuck did the Jest lose? Did Dirty Sanchez fuck it up again? Fucking Tebow...... :)

the jet's o pretty much sucks, denver's d is pretty damm good (von miller is a stud), tebow has more energy at the end of the game than anyone else. lol

[yooperfan]

Sanchez throwing a pick six. It was fun watching Elway having to clap in the team box looking like he can't believe he's stuck with this guy.

[Lurker64]

denver's d is pretty damm good (von miller is a stud)

I like how Aaron Rodgers scored six touchdowns against them.

[Freak Out]

I just watched the highlights. lol. The Jets had no RBs left did they? Man oh man....Tebow mania is going to grow. Get him on Letterman. :)

[Guiness]

I wouldn't exactly be anointing Tebow anything yet. Jets have a good D, and through the middle of the game Denver had to punt 8 straight times - 7 of those were 3 and out and they gained a total of 22 offensive yards in those 7 possessions.

Somehow Denver managed to string together a 12 play drive in the 4th, and and Tebow outran the defense to the end zone. Who knows.

[Guiness]

I just watched the highlights. lol. The Jets had no RBs left did they? Man oh man....Tebow mania is going to grow. Get him on Letterman. :)

Pretty much no. Shonn Greene went down early. McKnight's line looks pretty good though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like Tebow as a person, and I hope he succeeds. As a player, he reminds me of Vince Young. Athletic, ugly throwing style, clutch, but ultimately isn't going to lead your team to the promised land.

[gbgary]

I wouldn't exactly be anointing Tebow anything yet. Jets have a good D, and through the middle of the game Denver had to punt 8 straight times - 7 of those were 3 and out and they gained a total of 22 offensive yards in those 7 possessions.

Somehow Denver managed to string together a 12 play drive in the 4th, and and Tebow outran the defense to the end zone. Who knows.

heck no. terrible passer.


I like Tebow as a person, and I hope he succeeds. As a player, he reminds me of Vince Young. Athletic, ugly throwing style, clutch, but ultimately isn't going to lead your team to the promised land.

nope. his time will be up soon unless he can be a functional passer to go along with the running. he might work out as a pass catching tightend. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

heck no. terrible passer.

nope. his time will be up soon unless he can be a functional passer to go along with the running. he might work out as a pass catching tightend. :)

Ummm... coming from me... a comparison to Vince Young is not a good thing. They both suck throwing the ball. They both can run like crazy. They both have won games, and afterwards you are left wondering how the heck their team won.

[Jimx29]

Wow...he only attempted 8 passes and completed 2 of them? And they won?!? How does this happen? They're 4-3 with him as their starter. The guys is the worst starting QB I can remember. I mean...2 for 8? WTF?!?!?!?
Worst?

Rick Mirer has him beat hands down

[mraynrand]

Tebow has "It"

http://quitenormal.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/tebowing1.jpg?w=576&h=606

[Kiwon]

People can say what they want to but Denver's 4-1 with Tebow as the starter. That was an exciting finish with the game on the line. And personally, I don't mind seeing Rex Ryan's Jets getting humbled.

[mraynrand]

People can say what they want to but Denver's 4-1 with Tebow as the starter. That was an exciting finish with the game on the line. And personally, I don't mind seeing Rex Ryan's Jets getting humbled.

I agree. I recorded the game and buzzed through it cheering when Sancho Panzathrew the pick six
http://thetorchonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/sancho-panza.jpg

....and celebrated when Tebow crushed Rex Ryan.

Ha Ha!http://muwhahaha.com/images/nelson.png

[Cheesehead Craig]

He's their QB for the rest of the season now. There's no way they can take him out at this point.

I like him as a person also and hope he does well. But I don't see how they can keep this up come playoff time.

[gbgary]

He's their QB for the rest of the season now. There's no way they can take him out at this point.

I like him as a person also and hope he does well. But I don't see how they can keep this up come playoff time.

if they make the playoffs he will be their qb.

[wootah]

He's their QB for the rest of the season now. There's no way they can take him out at this point.

I like him as a person also and hope he does well. But I don't see how they can keep this up come playoff time.

I completely agree. I'm also glad this screws up Elway's plan of letting him fail. They were 1-4 when he started, then they traded away their best receiving option for peanuts. I'm guessing the Elwaycopter was already seeing him shake hands with Mr. Luck on draft day. I'm all for Tebow, the little engine that could.

[ThunderDan]

People can say what they want to but Denver's 4-1 with Tebow as the starter. That was an exciting finish with the game on the line. And personally, I don't mind seeing Rex Ryan's Jets getting humbled.

But how did you make it to the end of the game. I fell asleep in the middle it was so bad.

Denver - 219 Yards of Offense - 95 Yards in the last drive
NYJ - 335 Yards of Offense

[gbgary]

But how did you make it to the end of the game. I fell asleep in the middle it was so bad.

Denver - 219 Yards of Offense
NYJ - 335 Yards of Offense

me too...all i saw was the final drive. loved seeing ryan's reaction at the end. lol

[ThunderDan]

But how did you make it to the end of the game. I fell asleep in the middle it was so bad.

Denver - 219 Yards of Offense - 95 Yards in the last drive
NYJ - 335 Yards of Offense

That's 124 yards of offense until the 5 minute mark in the 4th quarter.

[Cheesehead Craig]

After thinking about this some more (while Tebow-ing), I say Tebow will lead the Broncos to the playoffs and shock the world with a playoff win.

I'm backing the not-so-little engine that could.

[mraynrand]

I completely agree. I'm also glad this screws up Elway's plan of letting him fail. They were 1-4 when he started, then they traded away their best receiving option for peanuts. I'm guessing the Elwaycopter was already seeing him shake hands with Mr. Luck on draft day. I'm all for Tebow, the little engine that could.


I'm pretty cynical, so I guess I can believe Elway was deliberately sucking for Luck. And perhaps he had in mind an offensive coach to replace Fox at the end of the season. What he forgot is that Fox is a very good defensive coach, loves to run the ball, and Fox and Tebow hate to lose. It's exhilarating to think that the Broncos winning is actually screwing up Horseface's plans!

"I can be the VP for operations!! Please, let me do it. I wanna! I wanna! Just not for the COLTS!!!"
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_em1NcViWsbE/S-2KGsWNC2I/AAAAAAAABes/9Z2QY8BwfUc/s1600/mred7vj.jpg

[KYPack]

The Jets have a decent D. Why did they let Tebow beat them with his legs? Play a nickel and send 4 or 5 and play one LB as a spy. See Dom C's D gameplan against big Ben in last year's SB.

If you force TT to beat you with his arm, he's lost at sea.

[ThunderDan]

The Jets have a decent D. Why did they let Tebow beat them with his legs? Play a nickel and send 4 or 5 and play one LB as a spy. See Dom C's D gameplan against big Ben in last year's SB.

If you force TT to beat you with his arm, he's lost at sea.

That Tebow TD run was so bad from the Jets. They blitzed and the outside contain guy crashed down the line of scrimmage. Tebow got outside of him and there were 2, at most 3, Jets that would have a chance to touch him before he ran the 20 yards to the endzone. You have to know in the situation that Tebow isn't going to win with his arm.

[Pugger]

Well, Coach Fox was on the NFL Network today and now he is singing Tebow's praises. I guess if your QB finds ways to win and you've gone 4-1 since he started what else can ya say?

[Fritz]

That there's goddamn Timmy Tee-bow.

[King Friday]

Denver's defense is what is winning these games, not Tebow. Tebow plays like crap for 90% of the game, then makes one drive and is a hero. If Denver plays a team with a real offense, Tebow can't wait until 5 minutes left to start playing.

Tebow should be a RB at this level. He has the ability. Draft your future QB and move Tebow to RB.

[Fritz]

A white running back? Are you kidding? That'd be like having a, a white wide receiver or something.

[pbmax]

Defense and Special Teams. McDaniel's didn't do them any favors on the O, but Xanders or whoever has been running the draft has put together the rest of the roster pretty well.

[Guiness]

Tebow got outside of him and there were 2, at most 3, Jets that would have a chance to touch him before he ran the 20 yards to the endzone.

And one of them was Cromatrie...who was holding the WR so he couldn't get away and try to tackle Tebow!

[Guiness]

In the next chapter, Denver cuts Orton! Who's doing the thinking there? You cut the guy who was your starting QB for the first 5 games???
They do read the papers there, right? They know KC needs a QB? I imagine Houston and Chicago will be interested as well.

OT: I thought a veteran's salary for the year was guaranteed if they were on the roster the first day of the regular season? Was this line just a mistake?

why keep him on the roster and pay him another $2.5 million just to stand on the sideline holding a clipboard for six more weeks?

[mraynrand]

In the next chapter, Denver cuts Orton! Who's doing the thinking there? You cut the guy who was your starting QB for the first 5 games???
They do read the papers there, right? They know KC needs a QB? I imagine Houston and Chicago will be interested as well.

OT: I thought a veteran's salary for the year was guaranteed if they were on the roster the first day of the regular season? Was this line just a mistake?

I think that's correct. But someone - Chicago? - will sign him and then be responsible for paying out the rest of his contract. You can't trade anymore, but you can dump a contract.

[MadScientist]

In the next chapter, Denver cuts Orton! Who's doing the thinking there? You cut the guy who was your starting QB for the first 5 games???
They do read the papers there, right? They know KC needs a QB? I imagine Houston and Chicago will be interested as well.

OT: I thought a veteran's salary for the year was guaranteed if they were on the roster the first day of the regular season? Was this line just a mistake?


I think that's correct. But someone - Chicago? - will sign him and then be responsible for paying out the rest of his contract. You can't trade anymore, but you can dump a contract.

Someone will have to claim him off wavers in order for Denver to be off the hook. However with Chicago, KC and Houston in dire need for a QB, there is a good chance he will get claimed. I'm guessing that was what Denver was thinking / hoping for.

[Pugger]

A white running back? Are you kidding? That'd be like having a, a white wide receiver or something.

:lol:

[pbmax]

:lol:

How quickly we forget Brandon Stokely.

[mraynrand]

How quickly we forget Brandon Stokely.

Gone but not forgotten. Stokely played to win!

http://blogs.denverpost.com/ostrow/files/2010/07/slot-machine.jpg

[smuggler]

Tebow stands no chance in the NFL at RB. Too tall, not enough vision, not fast enough, not elusive enough. The only things he has going for him are size and strength.

Now, if he were a TE or an H-Back, maybe he could get away with that. You could even give him a few option pitches every now and again. But right now Tebow is winning on the strength of his defense. At this point, he's just not good enough to get it done at this level. 10 points from the offense is objectively bad and it will catch up with the Broncos sooner rather than later.

[gbgary]

Tebow stands no chance in the NFL at RB. Too tall, not enough vision, not fast enough, not elusive enough. The only things he has going for him are size and strength.

Now, if he were a TE or an H-Back, maybe he could get away with that. You could even give him a few option pitches every now and again. But right now Tebow is winning on the strength of his defense. At this point, he's just not good enough to get it done at this level. 10 points from the offense is objectively bad and it will catch up with the Broncos sooner rather than later.

i tossed the TE thought out there a while back too. he'd have to put on a bit more weight maybe...he's tom crabtree's size.

[mraynrand]

I'd like to see Tebow pork out on sausages and play Guard. Just to see it. Like Keith Traylor eating his way from LB to DT.

[George Cumby]

An interesting read on the Tebow phenomenon. A little long but thought-provoking:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7319858/the-people-hate-tim-tebow

[HarveyWallbangers]

That is worth the read.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't like Tebow very much. Russell Wilson, Badger QB, mentions his faith frequently, and I really like him. In many ways, they have similar personalities, they are respectful. Wilson seems like more intelligent and playful guy though, and Tebow seems drone-like. I guess that is why Tebow's Christianity doesn't play as well with me, it fits an old, negative stereotype.

[pbmax]

I like that he identifies a sub-group mostly unmentioned: those who dislike Tebow because they believe his faithful followers attribute his success to God's intervention. But Klosterman is underestimating the number of evangelical Christians who do believe that Tebow's faith and personal relationship with Christ is influencing the game. They may not believe God is raising sprinklers up from the field to trip up the opposing team, but they believe his relationship does help him, personally, succeed and to inspire others. And it is precisely that connection that makes him so beloved by those among his faith tradition. Klostermann covers this a bit by qualifying with "unfairly", but that doesn't really flesh out the cause and effect many see.

The problem with writing about public opinion as distinct groups is that it is reductionist. Its Klostermann Jay-Walking through his mind, questioning theoretical people.

I am not favorably disposed to his expression of faith as I do feel like I am being sold something that is presented as both cause and effect to his success that is transferable to another person.

But I am favorably disposed to the idea that ruling out Tebow's success is a mistake 6 teams have made and many more will. He will win games simply because of the unconventional aspect to that offense. There is more than one way to skin a cat and Tebow is in a position to test that theory. He is big enough to survive running, bigger than Vick and Steve Young (I suspect bigger than SY, perhaps shorter and more compact) and he can make long throws given some time and space. And if the team can run, he will have time and space.

He will also benefit from something S Young did not have, extended QB protection. The QB his style most resembles right now is Randall Cunningham (no, this is not a meta Jordy Nelson commentary). And Cunningham made a lot of hay for the Eagles.

There are two open questions: 1)Can such a style win a title (SYoung doubts it can) and 2) will Elway and Fox commit to that kind of team/offense?

[Guiness]

Good post pb. What do you mean by the sentence that starts with "I am not favorably..." though? I couldn't quite follow it.

[3irty1]

This is just the VY thing all over. Tebow will be a story this year, a big story all offseason, make the cover of madden, but eventually a future version of the Denver Broncos is going to force him to actually be good--and he won't be because he's not. When VY was sucking all over the place, people justified it because of his record and that he somehow had some magic in him.

Maybe not this season but eventually Elway is going to change his quote from "We have no choice but to play him. He wins games." to "We have no choice but to bench him. He sucks."

[Harlan Huckleby]

There are two open questions: 1)Can such a style win a title (SYoung doubts it can) and 2) will Elway and Fox commit to that kind of team/offense?

no and no. Tebow will eventually start getting injuries. That offense can be good enough to win games, but can't possibly match passing masters like Brady, Rodgers & Brees. The defense has to carry the team.

[pbmax]

Good post pb. What do you mean by the sentence that starts with "I am not favorably..." though? I couldn't quite follow it.

I am not comfortable with such consistent expression of thanks and humility after each accomplishment in his public life. I understand that he wishes to acknowledge God's love, wants to remain humble and remind himself that through God his blessings (great and small) flow.

But I do not find such expressions convincing. Rather than simply an expression of love (as he compares it to later in the piece with a theoretical husband and wife) it also must be public witness to his faith. Most couples, even the most devout I know, do not publicly and reflexively acknowledge that love for one another after daily accomplishments. Perhaps more should, but I expect that this sentiment is shared in more private moments.

The point that I take away (and this is just my interpretation) is that it is a sell job about the difference faith and God have made in his life. And that if you too were to put yourself in God's hands, such blessings would flow to you as well. Never displayed for public view are thank yous for failures, of which God is also the author. No doubt, Tebow draws strength from God during the failures as well. But that is not what engenders the public gesture.

In short, a public celebration/thank you for success might be intended to keep one humble, but it also seems to be an advertisement. And advertisers seldom feature struggle as part of the sale. And struggle is at the heart of faith. For me, anyway.

[MadtownPacker]

PBmax is the devil!!

http://bluraymedia.ign.com/bluray/image/article/101/1011597/the-waterboy-20090806010816235-000.jpg

[Packers4Glory]

I hope the kid continues to grow and succeed. why the hell not? there is absolutely no reason to hate the guy. Even if you find the religious beliefs to be annoying, he generally seems like one heck of a human.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think there are many Christians (like myself) who think God is pulling strings to allow Tebow to pull out these victories. But I do think that Tebow's faith plays a part in his success. There's a calm reassurance when you have your faith to fall back on. Knowing there are bigger things out there--which in my experience tends to minimize the external pressure that one feels.

PB's take on Tebow's approach to expressing his faith reminds me of the attitude of many Christians that I know who went to church 20-30 years ago or who go to churches that pastor in the old school ways. Growing up... that kind of faith made me disinterested in church. It didn't drive me away from Christianity, but it always left me striving to find a church where I felt more emotionally connected. It was go to church, hear the same sermons, sing the same hymns, don't show any emotion, leave, and feel little connection. You almost felt embarrassed outwardly expressing your faith. People from those churches (including me initially) have a hard time adapting to the new school approach that I now like--where you aren't embarrassed to raise your hands in church, sing loud, and sing proud. It takes getting used to.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Tebow is likely to find future failures on the football field, but his faith seems entirely believable to me. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it will matter that much to him. I hope he beats the odds and develops as a passer.

[Upnorth]

I think of tebow like trent dilfer. Manages the game and does not turm it over. Keeps the defence rested and does not give them a short field to defend. He is a very efficient short range qb that kills clock (his runs are like very short high percentage passes). Well rested defence makes big plays in the fourth. All the runs wear down the opposing d for the fourth. Its old school 3 yrds and a cloud of dust grinding football.

His only loss is the only time they lost the turnover battle. Maybe I am over simplifying and sorry if I stole someones idea (I did not read the whole thread), but this is my opinion. Tebow is an awesome game manager.

[George Cumby]

I don't like or dislike the guy, I don't have enough data to form an opinion. But I am interested in how polarizing he is. From the one interview I have seen of him, he seems like a very nice, sincere young man. I would hope my daughter brings home a boy like him (in about 18 years).

That being said, whenever an athlete (or any public figure, for that matter) repeatedly speaks of their faith and their relationship with God, well, I hink up a little. Maybe it's similar to PB's "you're trying to sell me something" vibe or perhaps I just view faith as a personal thing.

I forget where I saw this, on this board or elsewhere, but ARod got asked about his faith, and his response was classically understated and modest. It left you with the clear impression that ARod is a man of Faith, but just doesn't feel the need to share it every time he wins a game or a camera gets shoved in his face.

Man, I love our QB.....

[HarveyWallbangers]

I cringe when athletes say the standard "I think God for giving me this gift" type stuff, but Tebow sounds sincere. Like Greg Jennings and Aaron Kampman before him.

[channtheman]

I think a lot of what annoys people about Tebow (in addition to his outspoken faith) is that he never falls into the trap and answers a question in a way that gives anyone fuel to hate him for a legitimate reason. I remember after the Broncos beat the Jets on Thursday Night Football all of the NFL Network panelists were asking him questions about John Fox and his remarks about how Tebow would be "screwed" in a pro style offense. Tebow just kept on saying over and over how great his coach was. I haven't seen other instances except for a small sliver of another press conference and he was pretty much the same way, just continually talking about how great his coaching staff was.

[Joemailman]

I think a lot of what annoys people about Tebow (in addition to his outspoken faith) is that he never falls into the trap and answers a question in a way that gives anyone fuel to hate him for a legitimate reason. I remember after the Broncos beat the Jets on Thursday Night Football all of the NFL Network panelists were asking him questions about John Fox and his remarks about how Tebow would be "screwed" in a pro style offense. Tebow just kept on saying over and over how great his coach was. I haven't seen other instances except for a small sliver of another press conference and he was pretty much the same way, just continually talking about how great his coaching staff was.

So...people hate him because he never says anything to give them a legitimate reason to hate him?:cnf:

I'm starting to think a bit like Harvey. I think people hate him because he expresses his faith 24/7, instead of for 1 hour a week in church like many of them do.

[Smeefers]

So...people hate him because he never says anything to give them a legitimate reason to hate him?:cnf:

I'm starting to think a bit like Harvey. I think people hate him because he expresses his faith 24/7, instead of for 1 hour a week in church like many of them do.

That sounds about right to me. Extremely vocal religious types get annoying. Quickly. It's why in Bar's you don't talk religion or politics. Tebow brings the topic into bars just by being on TV and playing football. He makes everyone anxious, whether you agree that he's awesome or not. If I'm by myself, I don't give a crap about his faith, I want to see how the kid plays. When you're in a public setting, it always gets tossed back to the god thing and that pisses people off, because it shouldn't be about the god thing. It should be about the football thing.

Her: "Frank did okay yesterday with my account."
Him: "Frank in accounting is like, super catholic. It's why he does so super good at accounting."
Her: "No! it's not! He does semi-passible accounting because he's worked hard at being an accountant. He just also happens to be super catholic."
Him: "Whateves. You hate god."
Her: "Sigh."

[MadtownPacker]

If MFers can be all about bringin attention to bling or bitches or charity or reality shows or anything I dont see why anyone would hate on Tebow. Yeah he aint impressive at QB but he must be impressive as a human being if he has his teammates believing in him. Until he gets a penalty on the field for praying (never know) I dont see it as any problem.

[Harlan Huckleby]

repent, sinner

[pbmax]

So...people hate him because he never says anything to give them a legitimate reason to hate him?:cnf:

I'm starting to think a bit like Harvey. I think people hate him because he expresses his faith 24/7, instead of for 1 hour a week in church like many of them do.

(Yeah, its a long post. Apologies to all.)

I am sure there are people who are put off primarily by that, but there are other, more prosaic football reasons to doubt him. And I think that doubt, when expressed in opposition to his fanbase's belief in him, can easily and unfortunately turn quite nasty.

Most football people are used to being wrong, but they are not used to being wrong in opposition to a large segment of a vocal public.

This happens all the time with local college players in the NFL. Madison radio is populated by people who cannot fathom that Kevin Stemke did not make a solid pro punter. They are so convinced that this should have happened that they think the coaching at the Pro Level is lacking and may be inferior to major college programs. Because "something" must have gone wrong. The same dynamic works on local players who do well (Chris Chambers) and weren't drafted by the local Pro team. Thompson still gets questions about that and drafting Wisconsin players in general.

Tebow was in the same spot where most pros doubted his ability to succeed at an NFL level. That doubt existed for two good reasons, his throwing mechanics and the fact that to succeed, an offense might need to be constructed for him. It might have ended there had he been drafted in the 3-5th rounds like many were predicting. But McDaniels liked him and drafted him in Round 1 which focused media attention on him and raised his supporters hopes.

The Fox and Elway come along and another wave of doubt creeps in that a new football regime will be willing to spend its time on someone else's risk. When fan demands and practical considerations about what to do in the future with the QB position virtually force them to start him, he succeeds. And his success and method are not conventional, so there is still room for doubt, though that doubt now looks a little foolish compared to his Win Loss numbers.

So now everyone has new ammunition (especially his supporters) and the arguments are raised to a fever pitch. But nothing has really changed.

Tebow is not now, nor likely will ever be a conventional NFL QB. And the last running QB offense to win an NFL championship was probably in the 40s or early 50s. He will need an offense constructed around him and tailored to his strengths rather than weaknesses. That will take changing the culture of a front office, scouts and coaches on the offensive side of the ball. It would be a huge challenge for an established spread coach to implement in the pros and win the front office to his side. The closest thing the Broncos have to this is John Fox's love of running the ball.

Its a huge commitment to make for one player. People who pay little attention to pro football except when local boy does good cannot conceive how it could fail. But it could fail for a dozen reasons, none of which are a lack of appreciation for Tebow's faith. The reason it might never happen has to do more with a lack of faith in his talent.

I think such an offense can succeed and Tebow might be very suited to run it. But its easy for me to say from my keyboard. My job is not on the line like Elway and Fox. My paycheck is not on the line if such a Tebow offense doesn't succeed.

[pbmax]

If MFers can be all about bringin attention to bling or bitches or charity or reality shows or anything I dont see why anyone would hate on Tebow. Yeah he aint impressive at QB but he must be impressive as a human being if he has his teammates believing in him. Until he gets a penalty on the field for praying (never know) I dont see it as any problem.

Its precisely like that. People don't like what they are not comfortable with. There are many football fans who would love to see bling and bitches and reality shows disappear from their life.

[MJZiggy]

I'm not sure this is centered around religion even if it appears to be. Fact of the matter is that Tebow was not "supposed" to succeed. As Max said, he was supposed to be middle round talent, and yet here he is and he's winning games and he's not "supposed" to be. He's a vocal Christian so many can use this as an excuse to not like him for whatever reason they can identify for it to make them uncomfortable. Me, I don't care one way or another. I didn't care when Reggie was a vocal Christian, when he praised God for healing his injuries quickly, or holding prayer circles before and after games. It was expected and his on-field performance somehow justified it. Apparently, Tebow's somehow does not. My only annoyance is the difficulty in getting away from it and from him. If they'd say their piece and shut up about it, I'd be perfectly fine because I don't watch everything he says and does.

That said, the article was a work of art.

[Freak Out]

Lol @ the Bears.

[MadtownPacker]

PB- You can not like Tebow for any reason you like but you have to love him for beating(helping beat?) da bears!

[gbgary]

kicker comes through and wins it for den.

[Upnorth]

Thank God Tebow beat the bears.

[channtheman]

So...people hate him because he never says anything to give them a legitimate reason to hate him?:cnf:

I'm starting to think a bit like Harvey. I think people hate him because he expresses his faith 24/7, instead of for 1 hour a week in church like many of them do.

Yes, he's all good all the time... and that annoys people.

[mmmdk]

Thank God Tebow beat the bears.

Yup! And Tebow's a pretty good fantasy play!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thank God Tebow beat the bears.

Still rooting for him. He's a great story.

[Bretsky]

I'm not sure this is centered around religion even if it appears to be. Fact of the matter is that Tebow was not "supposed" to succeed. As Max said, he was supposed to be middle round talent, and yet here he is and he's winning games and he's not "supposed" to be. He's a vocal Christian so many can use this as an excuse to not like him for whatever reason they can identify for it to make them uncomfortable. Me, I don't care one way or another. I didn't care when Reggie was a vocal Christian, when he praised God for healing his injuries quickly, or holding prayer circles before and after games. It was expected and his on-field performance somehow justified it. Apparently, Tebow's somehow does not. My only annoyance is the difficulty in getting away from it and from him. If they'd say their piece and shut up about it, I'd be perfectly fine because I don't watch everything he says and does.

That said, the article was a work of art.


Perhaps he was "suppose" to be middle round talent......and to be honest I thought he was too. With that being said, if you were watching the draft and flipping back between the NFL Network and ESPN report were everywhere that BOTH the Broncos and Bills were trying to move up into round one to draft Tim Tebow. Some teams viewed him much higher than middle round talent. Some teams eliminated him from their boards. I think most thought he was going between the end of round two to round three.

I think the majority of the hate is all about the faith aspect.

[retailguy]

Still rooting for him. He's a great story.

Me too. This can't continue long term, but it'll screw up Denver's draft position this year, and the team for years to come! YAY! I hate the Broncos more than the Bears... GO TEBOW! lol

[pbmax]

PB- You can not like Tebow for any reason you like but you have to love him for beating(helping beat?) da bears!

I am rooting for him to succeed. Beating the Bears is just a bonus.

Best of all, I want that offense to succeed, whoever is at QB. Given that his number of throws is increasing in the last two games, I am left wondering what exactly they wish to do though.

[George Cumby]

Me too. This can't continue long term, but it'll screw up Denver's draft position this year, and the team for years to come! YAY! I hate the Broncos more than the Bears... GO TEBOW! lol

THAT is some SERIOUS Machiavellian Schadenfreude........ Not that there is anything wrong with that.........

[King Friday]

I'd love a rematch of SB32...bring it on Tebow!

[Harlan Huckleby]

You always hear theories about why people hate Tebow. Is this hatred a myth? Who in this forum hates him? I don't like the guy because he seems preachy, but can't imagine too many people getting worked up over such a bland guy.

[mraynrand]

Me too. This can't continue long term, but it'll screw up Denver's draft position this year, and the team for years to come! YAY! I hate the Broncos more than the Bears... GO TEBOW! lol

While it's not really interesting, it's still a curiosity to me to wonder how a Packer fan gets to the point where they dislike the Broncos more than the Bears. I don't want to know the reason - please don't respond - I just think it's curious circumstance.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You always hear theories about why people hate Tebow. Is this hatred a myth? Who in this forum hates him? I don't like the guy because he seems preachy, but can't imagine too many people getting worked up over such a bland guy.

I'd say about 75% love him and 25% hate him. About the same percentage as how people classify their religious affilation in this country. The hate is there, but this run is unbelievable. It's like the '89 Cardiac Pack.

[Freak Out]

I like the Broncos.....I don't really care about Tebow one way or another but he seems like a nice guy with a great attitude.

[Freak Out]

I'd love a rematch of SB32...bring it on Tebow!

What a crazy game that would be.

[pbmax]

I'd say about 75% love him and 25% hate him. About the same percentage as how people classify their religious affilation in this country. The hate is there, but this run is unbelievable. It's like the '89 Cardiac Pack.

I don't agree. Not only do I think if fails to fall into the same category as professed Christians/non-Christian demographics, the feelings it engenders are much more mundane than religious antipathy. Plenty of people "hate" the coverage of Tebow and the automatic assignment of Bronco's improvement to their new QB. Much the same way people were tired of the same Favre stories recycled game after game with no more lucid analysis offered. That is different than hating the person or his religious views.

Internet hate does not equal religious hate.

[mraynrand]

Maybe this was posted in another thread, But Webb essentially 'Tebowed' the Lions yesterday. The guy came in and ran and juked his way to what would very likely have been a fantastic come from behind win over the Lions, if a facemask on the final play been called. MN put up almost 300 yards rushing on the Lions. It took 6 turnovers to keep the kittens in the game! Amazing! Time for the Webb era* to begin in MN!


*(What do you think of that, Harlan?)

[pbmax]

Maybe this was posted in another thread, But Webb essentially 'Tebowed' the Lions yesterday. The guy came in and ran and juked his way to what would very likely have been a fantastic come from behind win over the Lions, if a facemask on the final play been called. MN put up almost 300 yards rushing on the Lions. It took 6 turnovers to keep the kittens in the game! Amazing! Time for the Webb era* to begin in MN!


*(What do you think of that, Harlan?)

Someone at Football Outsiders said after that TD run, if a QB like Webb could read man coverage well, you could get the edge on a defense like that all day. Everyone went with the flow and receivers one way with no one but a DE/OLB on outside contain. He broke that and was in the secondary before defenders got turned around. Wonder if it was single safety or all man coverage.

[mraynrand]

Plenty of people "hate" the coverage of Tebow and the automatic assignment of Bronco's improvement to their new QB. Much the same way people were tired of the same Favre stories recycled game after game with no more lucid analysis offered.

That's a pretty good comparison. Could Tebow's mom do a spot for ESPN? "My Timmy, our Tebow..."

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't agree. Not only do I think if fails to fall into the same category as professed Christians/non-Christian demographics, the feelings it engenders are much more mundane than religious antipathy. Plenty of people "hate" the coverage of Tebow and the automatic assignment of Bronco's improvement to their new QB. Much the same way people were tired of the same Favre stories recycled game after game with no more lucid analysis offered. That is different than hating the person or his religious views.

Internet hate does not equal religious hate.

I'd have to respectfully disagree. I'd agree with your point that some people that "hate on" Tebow don't "hate on" him because of his religion. Some couldn't care less about it, but I think the majority of Christians "like" Tebow partly or mainly because of his religious beliefs. If he were agnostic, I don't think most of those people would like him nearly as much. They can connect with him and his views. They aren't going to "hate on" Tebow for expressing his love for Jesus Christ. (Probably similar in some ways to the support an athlete gets from people in his hometown.) That connection is what drives their support. Now, if Tebow expressed his love in a manner that didn't seem genuine or appeared to be self-serving, I think his support would be much lower. I still think the people that "hate on" Tebow mostly fall in the subset of people who are not Christians. The ones that "hate on" him that are Christians probably fall in the small subset of Christians that don't feel comfortable outwardly expressing their support for Jesus Christ.

I can connect with Tebow, but I might still support him if I weren't Christian because of how unlikely his success is. I guess that is a counter point to my own argument.
:)

I still think what you think of Tebow falls mainly on your religious beliefs. It would be interesting to run a poll with the following options: Non-Christian, Like Tebow. Christian, Like Tebow. Christian, Don't Like Tebow or the excessive coverage that he gets. Non-Christian, Don't Like Tebow or the excessive coverage that he gets.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Time for the Webb era* to begin in MN!


*(What do you think of that, Harlan?) I've always liked Webb a lot. think he will stick in NFL for quite a while, but am somewhat concerned about his Christian credentials.

I think the percentage of the population that hates Tim Tebow is about the same as Santa Claus bashers, maybe 5%.

Several people in this thread have said that Tim Tebow is a great human being. What is your evidence for this? Does being vocal about Christianity make someone a good person?

I think Tebow seems like a nice person. But I wouldn't want to spend time with him because he seems too robotic and preachy. I'm not anti-religion, Reggie White was all about God, and he seemed fun too.

[mmmdk]

I like Tebow...I don't like [many] religious people. Go figure. Please don't take this personal as you lot aren't among the "many" religious people.

[pbmax]

What you think of Tebow, the man himself, may very well fall along the lines of your relationship to faith (your own or his). And it is quite possible that similarly inclined Christians are rooting for him at a higher than typical rate (something I would be curious about: does Tebow enjoy more evangelical support than say Jennings or Rodgers?). But since Tebow is dissected in the media and football blogs as a football player as well, its very easy to mistake disbelief in the young man's talents for disbelief in the young man himself. Commentators do themselves no favor by failing to distinguish between football and the person, or his beliefs and talents.

The fact that his story has attracted such a wide audience makes this even tougher to triangulate. Because people for whom football is simply background noise can now have (if they didn't before) a strong opinion about Tebow and his detractors.

The predominant themes of his professional life have been: Tebow cannot be a successful NFL QB, Tebow is a winner and should be given a shot (his supporters) and that the Broncos success does or does not occur because of Tebow. These are classic sports arguments that have occurred about every high profile QB in the league.

What is different is framing each of these issues in terms of religious belief. Supporters think he is being opposed and denied credit because people and media are afraid of a strong, public Christian. His detractors suspect that his supporters are more interested in the PR benefits of the Tebow/Broncos success than they are in determining his actual contribution and football worth. The debate is conducted as though the religious lens can not be removed while studying the subject.

But a debate about two central issues is not binary: its not either Tebow and Christians are great versus Orton/Quinn and Christians have forgotten how to play NFL football.

I am not persuaded or impressed by his public demonstrations of faith, but as a football fan I want him (or someone who plays like him) to succeed in an offense designed to maximize his talents. In the context of the public debate, that position is thought to not to exist. Its either all-Tebow or anti-Tebow. And my point is that those who hold those two positions are the people paying the least amount of attention to the matter.

The final irony? In the last two games, Fox and his O coordinator seem determined to not employ a Tebow maximized offense. This sounds familiar. A QB succeeding when he can finally chuck his overly restrictive and poorly tailored offensive gameplan to win in the 4th Quarter == John Elway/Dan Reeves

[Fritz]

I just don't think the guy has the skills to be successful as an NFL QB over the long haul. Period. The Bears and most other teams can stifle him for 3/4 of the game, if not longer, and when you look at the point productions of the Broncos' comeback wins, they seldom get far behind despite the lack of offensive production.

[mraynrand]

I've always liked Webb a lot. think he will stick in NFL for quite a while

I was impressed by your insight on another thread that the Vikings still would like to win some games, and that Webb might be a good guy to trot out, before putting McNabb on the field. I thought they didn't give him enough of a look last year, and that they probably wasted their first round pick when they had a guy in house who could run the show. I'm not sorry they potentially wasted a pick, because it's the Vikings. It's interesting that the Packers didn't have to face either Tebow - the original or the Internet version. Football is not just about who you play, but when you play them...

[mraynrand]

The final irony? In the last two games, Fox and his O coordinator seem determined to not employ a Tebow maximized offense. This sounds familiar. A QB succeeding when he can finally chuck his overly restrictive and poorly tailored offensive gameplan to win in the 4th Quarter == John Elway/Dan Reeves

Funny - I was thinking the same thing. Let's run Sammy Winder/Willis McGahee all game long and Karl Mecklenburg/Vonn Miller can keep us in the game, but then we'll let Elway chuck it up/scramble for it at the end when we're 'hopelessly' behind.

[pbmax]

Don Imus checks in with ....

You know what? When it gets to the point that I am referencing Don Imus to make a point I have gone way too far in the water from the beach. Suffice it to say the Iman (I-man, iman, IMAn?) has an opinion and that is a signal that nothing more can be gained from the media.

[Pugger]

I don't think most folks hate Tebow but I'm fairly certain non-Bronco fans are getting damn weary of Tebowmania. The amount of attention he is getting is ridiculous. There are even people in some quarters saying he should be in the conversation for league MVP. :shock:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Link for anybody who thinks he should be MVP? Personally, I love the attention he's getting. Takes some of the attention off our guys. Perfect timing. How often is a 13-0 team overshadowed? Our guys can concentrate on winning games. Let everybody cover Tebow.

[mmmdk]

Link for anybody who thinks he should be MVP? Personally, I love the attention he's getting. Takes some of the attention off our guys. Perfect timing. How often is a 13-0 team overshadowed? Our guys can concentrate on winning games. Let everybody cover Tebow.

I agree; there are a lot of HOT teams in the NFL & all getting attention...Packers might be the only 13-0 team ever to fly under the radar!

[sharpe1027]

You could say: It may be a team game, but Tebow deserves all the credit for the wins because he is the QB.

Or, you could say: Denver's win over the Bears was an amazing effort by their defense and kicker (not to mention a bonehead play by the Bears) that was enough to makeup for Tebow completing only 50% of his passes and throwing a pick.

Does either have anything to do with religion?

[Upnorth]

Talking about qb's who just win how about the T.J. Yates. He just wins! (please read sarcasm, I am not a big fan of the just wins theory of qb's as it limits the team around them).

[mmmdk]

Tim Tebow is a rich mans Anthony Dilweg.

[MadtownPacker]

The redneck makes a great point. This is what everyone is talking about not 13-0. That works for me.

As for Tebow, someone mentioned if we know really know him. Of course not but then we don't know DD but the person he shows to the NFL is friendly and genuine in appearance. Maybe that is why Tebow is drawing so much attention. Because he is guy you can root for instead of worrying he will pull a plaxico, big ben, or worse. Maybe people just want to cheer for what appears to be a good guy who is humble to be a part of such a cool run. If I don't like something I'm hearing or watching I turn it off. People can do that with tebow as well but they will miss out on how the story plays out.

[mmmdk]

Redneck? I dig Obama, I voted to get the first female prime minister in Danish history and one of my best friends is from Cameroun. I've even got muslim friends. Online hothead, yeah ok, [seldomly now though] but redneck, no! :smile:

[MadtownPacker]

Cmon now, you know I wouldn't call you that. I was talking about Harvey.

I would call you eurotrash. :lol:

[mmmdk]

Cmon now, you know I wouldn't call you that. I was talking about Harvey.

I would call you eurotrash. :lol:

Much better! Thank you!! :lol:

[Little Whiskey]

Redneck? I dig Obama, I voted to get the first female prime minister in Danish history and one of my best friends is from Cameroun. I've even got muslim friends. Online hothead, yeah ok, [seldomly now though] but redneck, no! :smile:

you say that as though its a bad thing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The redneck makes a great point. This is what everyone is talking about not 13-0. That works for me.

As for Tebow, someone mentioned if we know really know him. Of course not but then we don't know DD but the person he shows to the NFL is friendly and genuine in appearance. Maybe that is why Tebow is drawing so much attention. Because he is guy you can root for instead of worrying he will pull a plaxico, big ben, or worse. Maybe people just want to cheer for what appears to be a good guy who is humble to be a part of such a cool run. If I don't like something I'm hearing or watching I turn it off. People can do that with tebow as well but they will miss out on how the story plays out.
TL;DR

[mmmdk]

you say that as though its a bad thing.

You mean redneck? I'm just not one. I can follow the noun of redneck but not the adjective.

[Tarlam!]

From NFL.com:

Elway praises Tebow's ability to help Broncos believe
By Dan Hanzus NFL.com
Published: Dec. 12, 2011 at 04:41 p.m. Updated: Dec. 12, 2011 at 09:56 p.m.

John Elway has made it clear he won't heap praise upon Tim Tebow just because he happens to be his team's starting quarterback. But Elway -- the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations -- has a very pro-Tebow feeling as to why Denver continues to pull off unlikely victories like Sunday's against the Chicago Bears.

"I think when you look at it, I guess I just believe everyone believes that something good is going to happen," Elway said Monday during his weekly radio spot on KDSP-FM. "Tim's been the guy that has led that thinking and he's just such a strong believer. He's got everyone else believing that if you stay strong, stay positive, that something good is going to happen."

The new level of confidence also is evident to coach John Fox.

"It goes back to those guys believing," Fox said during his Monday news conference. "This game's about confidence. You're playing the best in the world at what you do and being able to believe that good things are going to happen. So many of these games are won or lost in the fourth quarter, and the thing that I admire about that bunch is that they trust and believe in one another, and that's the ultimate of being a championship team. It's fun to see and fun to watch happen."

Elway's weekly radio spot has become a good barometer on where he stands on Tebow. Elway seemed decidedly underwhelmed by Tebow initially, but he said last week that the QB made "great strides" in a win over the Minnesota Vikings.

Now Elway is saying Tebow has transformative power on the will of teammates. Has he ever seen a player like his QB?

"No, not to this point," Elway said. "If you look at where we've been just this season and look at the impact that he has had this season, not only athletically with him running around and throwing the football, but I think that his presence has been just huge and his confidence and his competitiveness that he has, especially if you look about when we’re coming off 4-12 last year."

Fox cameras trained on Elway showed the executive looking stone-faced for the majority of Sunday's game before Tebow's late touchdown drive brought Sports Authority Field back to life. Tebow has brought football in Denver back to life, a fact Elway should consider when deciding who will be his long-term answer at quarterback.

[Tarlam!]

Same source:

Brady just fine with taking backseat to Tebowmania
By Dan Hanzus NFL.com
Published: Dec. 12, 2011 at 03:06 p.m. Updated: Dec. 12, 2011 at 03:21 p.m.

To this point, Tom Brady and his Patriots teammates have experienced Tebowmania much the same way most NFL fans have.

After beating the Redskins 34-27 on Sunday, the Patriots trained their eyes on their TVs as the Broncos resumed their tour of little miracles with a 13-10 overtime victory over the Bears.

"All of us were watching the game last night on the airplane; just as we were taking off was when they came back and won the game," Brady told WEEI-AM on Monday. "It was an exciting game. They obviously have a very good team."

The Patriots will have a far more personal look when they head to Mile High Stadium to face the Broncos this Sunday.

"They play for 60 minutes. They've obviously closed a lot of games and finished very well," Brady said. "We got a huge test. We'll all be excited, and hopefully have a good week of preparation and be ready to go on Sunday."

Brady is accustomed to being the QB at the center of attention on a weekly basis. That certainly won't be the case in Week 15, which suits Brady just fine.

"That's OK. Believe me, there’s great reason," he said. "They're winning a ton of games, and (Tebow is) playing very well.

"Everyone says he struggles throwing the ball. What I saw last night, he had no problems throwing the ball. He threw the ball extremely well when I was watching."

Of course, Tebow threw the ball rather horrendously in the three quarters before Brady saw him. But that's become part of the Tebow legend: Three hours of failure can be wiped away by 30 minutes of greatness.

[Tarlam!]

And, one more from our favourite MLB to hate:

Tebow doesn't have issue with Urlacher's RB 'compliment'
By Dan Hanzus NFL.com
Published: Dec. 12, 2011 at 12:23 p.m. Updated: Dec. 12, 2011 at 02:48 p.m.

It's safe to say Brian Urlacher hasn't been swept up by Tebowmania, even after getting an up-close look at the phenomenon Sunday.

Following the Bears' stunning 13-10 loss to the Broncos in overtime, Urlacher provided a not-so-subtle dig when asked about Denver's scrambling quarterback.

"He's a good running back," Urlacher said, according to ESPNChicago.com. "He does a good job for them."

Tebow, a master of saying something without saying anything at all, refused to take the bait. It's hard to say if he even was aware of the bait. Tim Tebow isn't like you and me.

"Coming from a really good player, that means a lot," Tebow said of Urlacher's comment.

Tebow kills them in the fourth quarter, then kills them with kindness after the game. He cannot be defeated.

[pbmax]

Link for anybody who thinks he should be MVP? Personally, I love the attention he's getting. Takes some of the attention off our guys. Perfect timing. How often is a 13-0 team overshadowed? Our guys can concentrate on winning games. Let everybody cover Tebow.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Denver-Broncos-Tim-Tebow-is-most-valuable-player-in-NFL-right-now-120411

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/06/120611-sports-wolken-column-tebow-1-3/

http://www.tebowformvp.com/

[Tarlam!]

Wouldn't he have to have started the season to even be considered a candidate for MVP? But it's laughable to me that anybody could seriously challenge Rodgers for MVP this season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You could say: It may be a team game, but Tebow deserves all the credit for the wins because he is the QB.

Or, you could say: Denver's win over the Bears was an amazing effort by their defense and kicker (not to mention a bonehead play by the Bears) that was enough to makeup for Tebow completing only 50% of his passes and throwing a pick.

Does either have anything to do with religion?

I actually think Tebow has been improving. (I just don't think he'll get that much better.) What was he, 23 of 40? But he had 6 drops in the game. He also ran for 50 yards and scrambled out of potential sacks.

[Tarlam!]

Now, this is getting quite ridiculous IMHO:

Tebowing earns level of respect in English language
By Dan Hanzus NFL.com
Published: Dec. 12, 2011 at 01:45 p.m. Updated: Dec. 12, 2011 at 02:40 p.m.

If you think Tim Tebow won't last, you still could be right. But Tebowing isn't going anywhere.

The Global Language Monitor now acknowledges Tebowing -- the act of taking a knee in prayer during an athletic contest -- as part of the English language.


According to a press release obtained by USA Today, the influential GLM says the wildfire usage of Tebowing "has seldom been equaled, mirroring, for example, the rate of adoption of the word Obamamania in 2008."

The term went viral in October with the help of Tebowing.com, which allows people to upload pictures of themselves or others striking the iconic pose. The top 10 list on the site includes, "Deep Seabowing," "TeBarking," and "ToddlerTebowing."

Olympic gold medalist Lindsey Vonn did some celebrity Tebowing after winning a skiing event last week. Of course, with the Kim Kardashian news cycle fading, this has led to desperate speculation that Vonn and Tebow are dating.

Vonn publicly shot down the rumors Monday.

"Just because I 'Tebow' doesn't mean I'm dating him," she told The Associated Press.

It's important people understand the limitations of Tebowing. Thanks, Lindsey.

[pbmax]

I actually think Tebow has been improving. (I just don't think he'll get that much better.) What was he, 23 of 40? But he had 6 drops in the game. He also ran for 50 yards and scrambled out of potential sacks.

21 of 40 for 236, 1 TD, 1 Pick.

The experiment really comes down to this: will any team pay Tebow to play QB (at a normal QB rate) and be willing to run the risk of injury if they truly use him as a runner in teh zone read? Because that kind of abuse is going to come at a price at contract time, just ask Matt Forte.

[Pugger]

Link for anybody who thinks he should be MVP? Personally, I love the attention he's getting. Takes some of the attention off our guys. Perfect timing. How often is a 13-0 team overshadowed? Our guys can concentrate on winning games. Let everybody cover Tebow.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Denver-Broncos-Tim-Tebow-is-most-valuable-player-in-NFL-right-now-120411

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/06/120611-sports-wolken-column-tebow-1-3/

http://www.tebowformvp.com/

Question: do we care if Rodgers wins the league 2011 MVP? Not many weeks ago it was a forgone conclusion that Rodgers was the unanimous choice unless he really tanked. Not long ago I found Tebowmania amusing. But now it has taken on a life of its own and is getting nuttier by the hour. Earlier on BSPN they were discussing what was the bigger story --> Tebow or the 13-0 Packers! I predict if the Broncos beat NE this weekend Tebow will win the MVP. Crazy you say? Rodgers is old news. His remarkable play has become ho-hum because he makes it look easy! Some say we'd still be winners without Rodgers (I dispute this notion big time). Both BSPN and the NFL Network talk about Tebow incessantly. Its getting so I can barely watch either network. There is no escape. The web is full of these inane articles touting Tebow as the best thing since sliced bread.

Yes, it is nice we are flying under the radar but this Tebowmania nonsense is going to rob the real MVP of the league big time and I don't care for it one iota. Tebow is a nice kid with lousy QB mechanics who is finding a way to win against teams playing like crap late in the 4th quarter and making mistake after mistake. I'll give Denver credit for taking advantage of these miscues but I've been Tebowed to death. Someone should tell those fools there is more going on in the NFL besides Tebow!

[Tarlam!]

Good post Pugger and I agree with you. The only defense, and I am playing devil's advocate here, is that the talking heads unanimously had him marked as an NFL bust just waiting to happen. So now, they are trying to absolve for there earlier cluster flick regarding the guy.

There is no disputing his fan base, though. And I simply can't imagine a guy getting the league MVP with such a lousy passer rating and only 11 games.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The second link is some guy saying Tebow is "MVP" because the season has been boring and he has brought excitement. He even wrote Rodgers is the clear choice for MVP. I'm guessing the third link is some fan site started up by a Tebow (Florida or Broncos) fan. The first guy seems to be trying to draw viewers by going the Skip Bayless route. I doubt any serious football fan thinks Tebow should be MVP--other than a couple of guys trying to draw attention to themselves. It's the Internet. You can find a few nut jobs out there.

[Tarlam!]

It's the Internet. You can find a few nut jobs out there.

I resemble that remark!!!!

[George Cumby]

The idiots on ESPN were blathering last night about what was a bigger story, Tebow or the undefeated Packers. They even had Steve Young, who I generally like for his insight on KNBR, as the hack defending the position that Tebow was the bigger story (even though it was painfully obvious that he didn't believe a word he was saying. He was trying really hard and unsuccessfully, to keep a straight face).

A few have brought this up already, Tebowmania is a good thing for the Pack, keep the heat off for the time being and let them focus.

That being said, the power of positive thinking only goes so far and is no substitute for execution, discipline and talent. Brady and Hoody de-rail that train this weekend.

[Pugger]

The idiots on ESPN were blathering last night about what was a bigger story, Tebow or the undefeated Packers. They even had Steve Young, who I generally like for his insight on KNBR, as the hack defending the position that Tebow was the bigger story (even though it was painfully obvious that he didn't believe a word he was saying. He was trying really hard and unsuccessfully, to keep a straight face).

A few have brought this up already, Tebowmania is a good thing for the Pack, keep the heat off for the time being and let them focus.

That being said, the power of positive thinking only goes so far and is no substitute for execution, discipline and talent. Brady and Hoody de-rail that train this weekend.

Normally I don't root for NE but this week I'm making an exception. Can you imagin the bedlam that will appear if Denver wins that game? If Brady and company win soundly that should quell some of this nonsense.

[pbmax]

Good post Pugger and I agree with you. The only defense, and I am playing devil's advocate here, is that the talking heads unanimously had him marked as an NFL bust just waiting to happen. So now, they are trying to absolve for there earlier cluster flick regarding the guy.

There is no disputing his fan base, though. And I simply can't imagine a guy getting the league MVP with such a lousy passer rating and only 11 games.

A good point and it explains much about the overwhelming Tebow coverage as nothing elicits more attention than the media reporting on itself. Except that when it does this, it pretends it was fans all along who were driving it.

[Guiness]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Denver-Broncos-Tim-Tebow-is-most-valuable-player-in-NFL-right-now-120411

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/06/120611-sports-wolken-column-tebow-1-3/

http://www.tebowformvp.com/

omg, that last site actualy exists.

Pretty broken though, ground my browser to a half for 10-30 seconds for some reason. I probably have a virus now.

[Guiness]

21 of 40 for 236, 1 TD, 1 Pick.

The experiment really comes down to this: will any team pay Tebow to play QB (at a normal QB rate) and be willing to run the risk of injury if they truly use him as a runner in teh zone read? Because that kind of abuse is going to come at a price at contract time, just ask Matt Forte.


See Vick, Micheal.

[Pugger]

A good point and it explains much about the overwhelming Tebow coverage as nothing elicits more attention than the media reporting on itself. Except that when it does this, it pretends it was fans all along who were driving it.

It got so bad last night I couldn't watch BSPN nor the NFL Network because every 10 minutes they were talking about Tebow yet again.

[Smeefers]

If Aaron Rodgers played as good as Tebow, by gosh, we'd be starting Matt Flynn.

[Tarlam!]

If Aaron Rodgers played as good as Tebow, by gosh, we'd be starting Matt Flynn.

Now, that is hilarious. I don't care how you feel about young Tim. But this post is a cracker. Hilarious Smeef.

[mission]

Has Tebow even beat a good team?

[Tarlam!]

Has Tebow even beat a good team?

He beat Kyle. Kyle was 1-4. The guy knows how to win. Love him, hate him, he is a phenonomon.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Don Imus had excellent take on Tebow's inconsistencies, the three bad quarters and one good quarter, etc. He said Jesus probably didn't cure every leper. And when he walked on water, he probably fell in a few times. We only read about the successes.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It got so bad last night I couldn't watch BSPN nor the NFL Network because every 10 minutes they were talking about Tebow yet again.

Both NFL Network guys (Faulk and Irvin) said last night that the Packers were a bigger story than Tebow.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Has Tebow even beat a good team?

They beat the Jets and Bears and won at Oakland and at San Diego. It's not like they've been playing a bunch of stiffs.

[pbmax]

Both NFL Network guys (Faulk and Irvin) said last night that the Packers were a bigger story than Tebow.

Most of ESPN watching America doesn't agree.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/biggeststory.png

[mission]

They beat the Jets and Bears and won at Oakland and at San Diego. It's not like they've been playing a bunch of stiffs.

OK, I'll give him Jets and Chargers. Bears without Cutler and Forte (Barber!) and Oakland are about as bad as everyone else they've beat.

[mission]

We'll see what America thinks is the bigger story after God (not Tebow) has had his fun and decides to stop showing off.

[George Cumby]

Most of ESPN watching America doesn't agree.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/biggeststory.png

The obvious issues is the sampling methodology.........

[pbmax]

They beat the Jets and Bears and won at Oakland and at San Diego. It's not like they've been playing a bunch of stiffs.

Its hard to argue the Jets but they have played very poorly at times this year. The Bears are missing Cutler and Forte. San Diego was in a free fall until last week with their best unit (offense) and best player (Rivers) struggling.

But the thing that most of their wins have in common is terrible offenses: Bears: 25, Jets: 18, Minn: 22, KC: 30, Mia: 19. The outliers here are the Lions: 14 and the Chargers: 8.

The Lions have a defense to pair with a slightly above average O and won going away. The Chargers have no D left and lost.

But it would seem beyond dispute at this point that he has allowed the Broncos to be at least overall average, something Orton couldn't manage.

[Guiness]

They beat the Jets and Bears and won at Oakland and at San Diego. It's not like they've been playing a bunch of stiffs.

2 or 3 of those 4 could end up playoff teams. Yes, they've laid some eggs, but still...

[Pugger]

Most of ESPN watching America doesn't agree.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/biggeststory.png

Of course the Broncos and Tebow are the bigger story. BSPN and the NFL Network and sports web pages devote a hell of lot more air time and space on their sites to Tebow and company. We are old news. This is nice to fly under the radar but it might end up robbing the true league MVP in the end of that award.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who cares really? Rodgers will win MVP, and hopefully the Packers win the Super Bowl. As soon as the Broncos are eliminated from the playoffs, the Tebow story will go away for this year. Hopefully, we'll still be playing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And it is a big story. A popular, galvanizing figure doing unprecedented things in unorthodox fashion. He gets too much of the credit, but you could say that about most QBs.


Despite his mechanical and footwork flaws, Tebow is money in crunch time. He's the first quarterback in NFL history to engineer a half-dozen fourth-quarter comebacks in his first 11 starts, something it even took Elway about four times as long to accomplish.

Only Manning and Rodgers have a better 4th quarter passer rating, and that doesn't take into account his rushing. All from a guy who looks like a terrible QB for much of the game.

[BallHawk]

I'll say this about Tebow. I'm currently at the University of Florida and, understandably, a lot of eyes are on him and we're all rooting for him. Last week the cable provider changed the 4:15 game from Bucs v Jags to the Bronco game. Once again, they changed it from an in-state rivalry game solely because of Tebow. There's never been anybody like this before with such a devoted fanbase and at the same time such a devoted group of cynics. I expect the Patriots to give the Broncos an ass-whooping come this week and put a cool to the Tebow hype. I'll say this, though, if Tebow pulls this one off, especially if it's largely due to his efforts (and not so much defense and miscues by the opponent like the Chicago game), then we're gonna enter a whole different realm of hype. I'll agree with Robert Kraft on one thing- hate him or love him, Tebow is good for the game right now.

[Brandon494]

He's good for the game right now but would any of you really want him to be the QB for your NFL team? I think they have beaten one playoff team during this run and he's completing less than 50% of his passes. He's Vince Young without the mental problems.

[Fritz]

I'm with Brandon on this one.

I would also add that part of the reason this story is so big is that BSPN makes it so. They've changed the NFL from a team game to a game of individual stars. Given the choice, they'll always pump the individual storyline over the team storyline. They create the narratives - just listen to them. The talking heads say things like "Is this Tebow thing really that big of a story?" . . . and in saying so, they of course are making it a story. The media, sadly, often does control what the stories are that people talk about.

[pbmax]

I'll say this about Tebow. I'm currently at the University of Florida and, understandably, a lot of eyes are on him and we're all rooting for him. Last week the cable provider changed the 4:15 game from Bucs v Jags to the Bronco game. Once again, they changed it from an in-state rivalry game solely because of Tebow. There's never been anybody like this before with such a devoted fanbase and at the same time such a devoted group of cynics. I expect the Patriots to give the Broncos an ass-whooping come this week and put a cool to the Tebow hype. I'll say this, though, if Tebow pulls this one off, especially if it's largely due to his efforts (and not so much defense and miscues by the opponent like the Chicago game), then we're gonna enter a whole different realm of hype. I'll agree with Robert Kraft on one thing- hate him or love him, Tebow is good for the game right now.

The Patriots will make it interesting just like the Packers, they have no pass defense at all. It will also be interesting to see if the Broncos can take advantage of the Patriots just below average run defense.

[gbgary]

He's good for the game right now but would any of you really want him to be the QB for your NFL team? I think they have beaten one playoff team during this run and he's completing less than 50% of his passes. He's Vince Young without the mental problems.

hell no! he is what he is and the broncos are getting what they can out of him. if den would run their tebow-time offense all game long i think his passing number would be better. that's when he seems to make his mark. i think young is a much better passer though.

[Upnorth]

He's good for the game right now but would any of you really want him to be the QB for your NFL team? I think they have beaten one playoff team during this run and he's completing less than 50% of his passes. He's Vince Young without the mental problems.

I give a ton of credit to his Defence and Oline. I wonder how much of his 4th quarter magic is the opposing D being gassed from the previous 3 quarters of road grading?

[mraynrand]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/biggeststory.png

Based on the globe in the lower right-hand corner, dolphins and other sea mammals are more interested in Tebow, while people in Africa, Asia, Europe, Greenland, and Eastern Brazil are more interested in eating than either story.

[Upnorth]

Mr Rand, your observation is completely wrong, they are excited about the christams season and Santa, hence the white, DUH!

Oh and Tebow is thinking about replacing Santa this year and giving the gift of Tebow to the world!

[hoosier]

As Harry Caray would say, Tebow backwards is Wobet.

[Tarlam!]

I give a ton of credit to his Defence and Oline. I wonder how much of his 4th quarter magic is the opposing D being gassed from the previous 3 quarters of road grading?

Was this the same defence and Oline that Kyle Orton led to so many losses early in the season? Not trying to by a smart alec, but, did they get some injured players back or something?

If not, then it comes down to a different tone in the locker room. That's what Elway has been sninutuating. Players will play for Tebow.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He's Vince Young without the mental problems. Well, unless you consider religous fanatacism a mental problem.

Just kidding, lighten up. There is nothing odd about tatooing chapter and verse references on your body, no worse than the snake tatoo on your wiener.

Would Tebow be considered a "great human being" if he didn't look like a more handsome version of a Ken doll? Guy looks like oversize choir boy. What if Teebow looked like Atari Bigby?

Would there be Tebowmania if he was a vocal athiest? Could he still be considered a "great human being?"

I don't resent Tebow's religiosity. I do resent him being treated like a great person because of it. Maybe he is a great person, he at least seems pleasant.

[mraynrand]

As Harry Caray would say, Tebow backwards is Wobet.

He would say that. He might also say "Wow! Look at the guy in the left field bleachers. Tell, me Steve Stone if that isn't the largest head you've ever seen in your life. I didn't know they made baseball caps big enough to cover such a thing. What a melon! Holy Cow!!!"

Steve Stone: "Uhhh Harry, take off the reading glasses"

[mraynrand]

There is nothing odd about tatooing chapter and verse references on your body, no worse than the snake tatoo on your wiener.

A girl friend of mine once told me she was with a guy who had a slinky tattoo on his johnson. Imagine that! Holy Cow! "It walks downstairs, alone or in pairs, and makes a slinkety sound......"

[pbmax]

Was this the same defence and Oline that Kyle Orton led to so many losses early in the season? Not trying to by a smart alec, but, did they get some injured players back or something?

If not, then it comes down to a different tone in the locker room. That's what Elway has been sninutuating. Players will play for Tebow.

Their defense did have some injuries; Dumerville and Bailey missed time along with others. However, unlike Orton, Tebow is limiting INTs and has improved their running game. So the offense is not putting the defense in bad spots and they tend to hold their own in field position battles, despite a metric ton of 3 and outs. They tend not to go backward or cough up the ball.

In other words, if you were going to ask the defense to win a game for you, Tebow is being as helpful as possible while not being able to dominate through the air.

The advanced stat folks can find marginal improvement in the defense overall with Tebow (its much better since the Detroit game) but far and away the biggest change has been the run game.

[gbgary]

on a side note...it looks like orton's going to qb the chiefs this weekend if he's healthy.

[Upnorth]

Their defense did have some injuries; Dumerville and Bailey missed time along with others. However, unlike Orton, Tebow is limiting INTs and has improved their running game. So the offense is not putting the defense in bad spots and they tend to hold their own in field position battles, despite a metric ton of 3 and outs. They tend not to go backward or cough up the ball.

In other words, if you were going to ask the defense to win a game for you, Tebow is being as helpful as possible while not being able to dominate through the air.

The advanced stat folks can find marginal improvement in the defense overall with Tebow (its much better since the Detroit game) but far and away the biggest change has been the run game.

I mentioned somewhere else teh reduced turnovers, should have included it in my above statement. So does road grading for 3 quarters make teh passing game that much easier in the 4th? Tebow passer rating in the 4th is one of the best in the league, and he sucks in teh 1 - 3 quarters.

[Tarlam!]

A girl friend of mine once told me she......"

Now I know you're lying! No girl would ever befriend you! ;)

[pbmax]

I mentioned somewhere else teh reduced turnovers, should have included it in my above statement. So does road grading for 3 quarters make teh passing game that much easier in the 4th? Tebow passer rating in the 4th is one of the best in the league, and he sucks in teh 1 - 3 quarters.

I think it helps the defense in having decent field position to defend, their odds of a stop are better. It doesn't hurt in TOP (3 and outs don't help much but the clock is running) either. Not sure about number of possessions and plays in the game so the tired defense angle is questionable.

But I think what changes in the 4th quarter is that opponents alter their defense with a lead and play prevent, which seems to be the only defense he is accurate or decisive with for short passing. Playing that prevent also gives him more time in the pocket, which helps him two ways; first, he throws well if he can track a receiver and no pressure gives him time and second, no pressure means you can run long routes under the umbrella of prevent coverage to evade the short pass defenders AND give a target for Tebow to track.

If you think about it, Tebow is running the Oakland Raiders offense from 1975. Only instead of vertical Go routes, he is throwing even longer developing crossing routes. Tebow is Kenny Stabler.

And its not a horrible design for an offense; run like mad and force safeties and linebackers to honor the run, then occasionally throw deep. He couldn't exist in a Gillam offense or a Walsh offense, but he does a pretty good "Snake".

[Upnorth]

I think it helps the defense in having decent field position to defend, their odds of a stop are better. It doesn't hurt in TOP (3 and outs don't help much but the clock is running) either. Not sure about number of possessions and plays in the game so the tired defense angle is questionable.

But I think what changes in the 4th quarter is that opponents alter their defense with a lead and play prevent, which seems to be the only defense he is accurate or decisive with for short passing. Playing that prevent also gives him more time in the pocket, which helps him two ways; first, he throws well if he can track a receiver and no pressure gives him time and second, no pressure means you can run long routes under the umbrella of prevent coverage to evade the short pass defenders AND give a target for Tebow to track.

If you think about it, Tebow is running the Oakland Raiders offense from 1975. Only instead of vertical Go routes, he is throwing even longer developing crossing routes. Tebow is Kenny Stabler.

And its not a horrible design for an offense; run like mad and force safeties and linebackers to honor the run, then occasionally throw deep. He couldn't exist in a Gillam offense or a Walsh offense, but he does a pretty good "Snake".

I had not seen this, nor heard this analysis, but upon firther review it seems like a plausible and perhaps probable explanation. I have not watched alot of Denver games, but heavy runs do bring saftey's up allowing man coverage deep.
Your a pretty smart guy PB

[Joemailman]

http://tp-images-cdn.tp-global.net/product/32146/panel/1/color/01/paper/2/width/740/height/560/1.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

Those reindeers are fucking hating. Someone put them down.

Hell no would I want him to be the franchise but I think it is entertaining. Last Sunday as I watched the raiders beatdown in the 4th I looked down at the other scores and saw den 3 chi 10. I think thats what it was. I thought "Tebows about to Tebow the bears!". Next thing it's 10 to 10, OT then over. I had to laugh cuz first its the bears and also because of the Tebow lovers and Tebow haters that would be in a frenzy. IMO It is good for the NFL and like everything else will fade.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My wife is now hooked on Tebow. She seldom shows interest in the Packers even. Yet, we are flipping through the channels, and ESPN has the Tebow "Year of the Quarterback" show on. I explain the Tebow phenomenon to her. We watch a little. She gets up and says she's going to bed, but she wants me to DVR the show because it looks interesting.
:)

[Packgator]

ESPN has the Tebow "Year of the Quarterback" show on.

Just watched it. Good show!

[gbgary]

on inside the nfl they featured a mic'd-up greg jennings and tim tebow. he was singing gospel songs during the game.

[KYPack]

on inside the nfl they featured a mic'd-up greg jennings and tim tebow. he was singing gospel songs during the game.

The noise you hear is Bobby Layne and Don Meredith spinning in their graves.

What happned to the QB being your biggest drunk?

THAT's the old NFL tradition.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What happned to the QB being your biggest drunk?
QBs had to drink to deal with all the pain in their bodies.

[hoosier]

QBs had to drink to deal with all the pain in their bodies.

In other words, after the Broncos play the Steelers and Tebow meets James Harrison, the universe will return to normal.

[denverYooper]

In other words, after the Broncos play the Steelers and Tebow meets James Harrison, the universe will return to normal.

I'm not a T-boner, but I'm not sure Harrison doesn't take on some pain himself if he tries to spear Tebow like he does a QB of a more slight build.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Tebow might put a Reggie White-style whoopin' on Harrison if he tries some shit.

I love this story.

http://thepigskindoctors.com/2010/08/here-comes-jesus-dont-cuss-at-reggie-white/

[Tarlam!]

Tebow might put a Reggie White-style whoopin' on Harrison if he tries some shit.

I love this story.

http://thepigskindoctors.com/2010/08/here-comes-jesus-dont-cuss-at-reggie-white/

That was GREAT Craig! Thanks for sharing. I wish I'd seen that play with my own eyes!

[Cheesehead Craig]

After thinking about this some more (while Tebow-ing), I say Tebow will lead the Broncos to the playoffs and shock the world with a playoff win.

I'm backing the not-so-little engine that could.

Bump for the 11/18 prediction!

[MJZiggy]

We aren't going to hear the end of it this week. Green Bay who? Tebow won a game.

[Pugger]

We aren't going to hear the end of it this week. Green Bay who? Tebow won a game.

That's okay. We don't need the media circus anyway. Tebow and the donkeys will get blasted again by Brady and his minions again next weekend.

[Tarlam!]

We aren't going to hear the end of it this week. Green Bay who? Tebow won a game.

If so, GOOD! The less media pressure on Aaron and the Lads, the better. Nobody, save maybe the Broncos and their diehard fans, expected the Steelers to lose. We saw how that went.

Everyone not close to it "expects" the Packers to win. I don't want the media saying/writing "the 2nd big upset" etc.

[gbgary]

watched most of the game but heard the last of regulation, and the 11 second ot, in the car. love it. love seeing the national pundits squirm in their chairs. i'm not religious...AT ALL...but i have a soft spot for den (born in colorado) and the picked-on underdog. i think it's ne next for them but i think that's where the journey ends den.

[hoosier]

watched most of the game but heard the last of regulation, and the 11 second ot, in the car. love it. love seeing the national pundits squirm in their chairs. i'm not religious...AT ALL...but i have a soft spot for den (born in colorado) and the picked-on underdog. i think it's ne next for them but i think that's where the journey ends den.

I agree, there was something very enjoyable in watching Tebow beating Roethlisberger and the vaunted Pittsburgh defense in the playoffs, and it had nothing to do with religion for me either, and nothing to do with dislike for the Steelers (Roethlisberger excepted) either. At the same time, we better HOPE that NE is the end of the road for Tebowmania, otherwise someone is going to have to shoot it.

[pbmax]

This just in: Pittsburgh Steelers ARE getting old on D. Or they missed Ryan Clark terribly.

[Tarlam!]

watched most of the game but heard the last of regulation, and the 11 second ot, in the car. love it. love seeing the national pundits squirm in their chairs. i'm not religious...AT ALL...but i have a soft spot for den (born in colorado) and the picked-on underdog. i think it's ne next for them but i think that's where the journey ends den.

I wasn't born in DEN, but I have a soft spot for Tebow because he's been drawn and quarted by the media. I still hate that every 9th sentence is a religious reference; that drives me nuts. He's actually a very likable kid (from what I see on my TV). The post game interview only had 4 references to God, and the rest were praising everybody in the DEN organisation. The latter resonates well with me.

As for NE: It's usually tough to beat a team twice in a season. This year's Packers is the first NFCN team to sweep the division in history. That says a lot about that stat. But homefield for NE in January is pretty big. And this is the first post season for Denver in 6 years. NE has to be heavily favoured, but that didn't help PIT this evening.

[Brando19]

The guy had a decent game...now it's going to be 24/7 coverage until next weekend. In a way...I want the Broncos and Packers to meet in the Super Bowl so the Pack can blow the Broncos out of the water. On the other hand, if these two teams meet in the SB...it will be ALL Tebow coverage and the Packers will be lost in his shadow.

[Tarlam!]

Packers will be lost in his shadow.

You're right, of course, but the Packers don't produce very much news. They are a professional yet humble bunch. No scandals, no bulletin board material smack talk, no controversial players, nothing. Even the interviews are kept to a superficial minimum.

We fans are thirsty for attention, because we read and listen and watch anything we can get and we have this insatiable hunger for more. I doubt we'll get more with TT and M3 at the helm and that's actually a good thing.

[MJZiggy]

The guy had a decent game...now it's going to be 24/7 coverage until next weekend. In a way...I want the Broncos and Packers to meet in the Super Bowl so the Pack can blow the Broncos out of the water. On the other hand, if these two teams meet in the SB...it will be ALL Tebow coverage and the Packers will be lost in his shadow.

And that would be bad why? At the '98 Super Bowl, it was Packers all day and night. It went to their heads.

[pbmax]

I wasn't born in DEN, but I have a soft spot for Tebow because he's been drawn and quarted by the media. I still hate that every 9th sentence is a religious reference; that drives me nuts. He's actually a very likable kid (from what I see on my TV). The post game interview only had 4 references to God, and the rest were praising everybody in the DEN organisation. The latter resonates well with me.

As for NE: It's usually tough to beat a team twice in a season. This year's Packers is the first NFCN team to sweep the division in history. That says a lot about that stat. But homefield for NE in January is pretty big. And this is the first post season for Denver in 6 years. NE has to be heavily favoured, but that didn't help PIT this evening.

Most of the media Tar are easily converted; they started by ripping him last year, had to stop after the win streak this year and begin to praise him, went back to ripping him in last two games and now are probably reduced to a quivering pile of goo. He will be feted with faint praise, if that is possible.

[SkinBasket]

Fuck all of you godless bastards right in your condemned faces! Suck it!

[easy cheesy]

The Denver Broncos had a great win. Tim Tebow plays for the Denver Broncos. As hard as it may be to grasp, the rest of the team (last known as the Denver Broncos, not the Tim Tebow Broncos) showed up as well. Tim Tebow wasn't just playing with himself. (at least on the field that is... and not according to the latest memo by "God")

I'm glad to see them send the Steelers into the football Morgue for the remainder of the year. I could give two shits how Denver finishes, but this is PURE JOY! Now, if they happen to beat the Patriots.... then OMG... maybe there really IS a God....

[gbgary]

Fuck all of you godless bastards right in your condemned faces! Suck it!

:lol:

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck all of you godless bastards right in your condemned faces! Suck it!
Thats the spirit!! Rapist can go to hell!!!

Thank you Tebow, your game winning pass was worth $100 to me. :) I knew you could do it man.

[Brando19]

And that would be bad why? At the '98 Super Bowl, it was Packers all day and night. It went to their heads.

Didn't you enjoy all the attention the Packers got last year? All the specials they had, the interviews, the hype...it was cool to see your team in the spotlight. That wouldn't be the case if it's Packers vs Broncos...it would be TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the time leading up to the big game.

[vince]

Fuck all of you godless bastards right in your condemned faces! Suck it!
:lol: Tebow played great today. His receivers did too. I still don't think he's a very good quarterback but they all become a lot better when they're not pressured.

[Guiness]

Tebow's final numbers look good, but I don't think he really looked that good.

A glaring hole seemed to be his ability to get TD's from inside the red zone - three straight times, at the end of the second and in the third, Denver came away with a FG. His receivers are ofter diving and going down as they catch the ball - looks like he leads them too much on crossing routes and they have to stretch out to make the catch. I saw a lot of passes sailing high, and even on receptions, the path of the ball looked more like a rainbow than a rope. He was less than 50% on the day.

What can you say though - "Winnning", right?

[vince]

Tim Tebow joins this elite list of QB's with 1 playoff win.

T.J. Yates
Paul Christman
Irv Comp
Gifford Nielsen
Glenn Presnell
Bill Wade
Steve Beuerlein
Bubby Brister
Dieter Brock
Aaron Brooks
Carl Brumbaugh
Scott Brunner
Jay Cutler
Lynn Dickey
Steve Fuller
David Garrard
Tommy Maddox
Mark Malone
Chris Miller
Babe Parilli
Rodney Peete
Pat Ryan
Marc Bulger
Jay Fiedler
Jeff George
Elvis Grbac
James Harris
Shaun King
Erik Kramer
Bob Lee
Frank Ryan
Steve Walsh
Steve Bartkowski
Steve DeBerg
Joe Ferguson
Don Meredith
Tony Romo

[bobblehead]

Fuck all of you godless bastards right in your condemned faces! Suck it!

Jesus couldn't have said it better himself.

[mmmdk]

Jesus couldn't have said it better himself.

Tebows day at Golgatha is nigh; look for thirteen Broncos in huddle as the first sign of his end of days. I say the Patriots will nail Tebow next week but I did predict a Broncos win this week over the Steel on wheels...and f@ck me if Tebow's resurrected for the 2012-13 NFL season. :lol: Tebow will be back though 'cos if nothing else; he's fun to watch!

[Pugger]

Did you folks see that guy in the stands in Denver with that championship belt!!?? :shock:

[Kiwon]

Tebow's final numbers look good, but I don't think he really looked that good.

Agreed. But back to the numbers.... The NFL Network crew kept saying, "Only 10 for 21... how could they win?"

Well, Big Ben was 22 for 40, roughly the same numbers as Tebow, only double. But no one commented that Ben was "only 22 for 40." Why not?

Each QB rushed for a 5 yard average, but TT had 35 more yards than gimpy Ben and scored a tough TD. TT passed for 316 yards (pre-destined, of course, John 3:16) to Ben's 289, with no sacks or picks.

It wasn't pretty at times, but TT outplayed a veteran, two-time Super Bowl champ today, under a glaring media spotlight in his first playoff game. Tebow's faith is irrelevant to what he does on the field. The guy is gifted physically, is a natural leader, a fighter, and he's got 52 other teammates, coaches, and a city excited about a team that began the season 1-4.

It's a great football story.

[easy cheesy]

Agreed. But back to the numbers.... The NFL Network crew kept saying, "Only 10 for 21... how could they win?"

Well, Big Ben was 22 for 40, roughly the same numbers as Tebow, only double. But no one commented that Ben was "only 22 for 40." Why not?

Each QB rushed for a 5 yard average, but TT had 35 more yards than gimpy Ben and scored a tough TD. TT passed for 316 yards (pre-destined, of course, John 3:16) to Ben's 289, with no sacks or picks.

It wasn't pretty at times, but TT outplayed a veteran, two-time Super Bowl champ today, under a glaring media spotlight in his first playoff game. Tebow's faith is irrelevant to what he does on the field. The guy is gifted physically, is a natural leader, a fighter, and he's got 52 other teammates, coaches, and a city excited about a team that began the season 1-4.

It's a great football story.

Very well put and a great football story indeed!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Didn't you enjoy all the attention the Packers got last year? All the specials they had, the interviews, the hype...it was cool to see your team in the spotlight. That wouldn't be the case if it's Packers vs Broncos...it would be TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the time leading up to the big game.

Plenty of hype for both teams during the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Tebow's final numbers look good, but I don't think he really looked that good.

A glaring hole seemed to be his ability to get TD's from inside the red zone - three straight times, at the end of the second and in the third, Denver came away with a FG. His receivers are ofter diving and going down as they catch the ball - looks like he leads them too much on crossing routes and they have to stretch out to make the catch. I saw a lot of passes sailing high, and even on receptions, the path of the ball looked more like a rainbow than a rope. He was less than 50% on the day.

What can you say though - "Winnning", right?

I thought he played well. He had a couple of bad drops and a few throwaways. He only bounced a couple of passes.
:)

Any guy that can gash the Steelers for 316 yards on just 21 pass attempts with 2 passing TDs + rushing for 50 yards and another TD without turning the ball over had a good game. No doubt that the Broncos defense played well and the Thomas kid did well (except for his bad drop near the goal line), but Tebow was a big part of the victory. His teammates don't seem to be upset by the coverage, so that tells me he has the locker room.

[Tarlam!]

Tebow's faith is irrelevant to what he does on the field.

Completely agree with this, but he rams it down my throat every chance he gets. This is what I find so offensive about an otherwise likable and talented kid.

[Kiwon]

Completely agree with this, but he rams it down my throat every chance he gets. This is what I find so offensive about an otherwise likable and talented kid.

Tarlam, it is YOUR insecurity that makes you uncomfortable, and with that, frankly, a very evident religious bigotry.

Tim Tebow doesn't know you and you don't know him. Just when and where did he ram anything down your throat? The guy is a public figure who makes comments in press conferences. Were you there asking questions? Did he pull you aside and directly make offensive comments to you? But you say he does it "every chance he gets." Well, I guess that would be NEVER since you've never met the man.

So you feel personally offended by someone you don't know who makes comments about a God that you don't believe in? Man, you need to get your meds checked because you are getting delusional!

Well, Tarlam, my friend, if that is all it takes for you to be personally offended then just be offended then. The problem is with you, not him.

Now, to close, I, Kiwon, first and foremost want to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ because He's done so much for me. Next, I want to thank my fellow Packer Rats, my teammates, who allow me to share my thoughts on one of the greatest franchises in sports, the Green Bay Packers. As the years tick by, we are drawn closer together as we celebrate and suffer the wins and losses of our beloved Packers. What a great website we have. It is our locker room where we flick each other with towels and make fun of the size of each other's packages. And yes, we have a virtual co-ed locker room. All are welcome and members of the fairer sex are not immune from the ribbing.

And finally, I'm just so thankful that God has given me this platform to share my love of the Packers with others. It truly is a blessing to be here and be a part of Packer Rats. We've come a long way since the dark days of JS Online, through the hacks of Lawyer Joe, and wilderness period of CE. But, though it all, God has been with us and will continue to be with us. Of that, I am confident, at least for the conservative Republican Rats. :-)

[Tarlam!]

Couple of things. I'm far from an insecure person. You do not know what I believe in, be it a Christian God or any other deity. Because I don't share my religious beliefs and I find it offensive when people do, especially people that have the means to influence weak-minded individuals one way or the other. I think offensive is incorrect. My mistake. I should say repulsive. That is closer to how I feel about "witnessing in the name of Christ". Repulsed. I will remind you again, this is how a vast number of wars have started.

Lastly, God didn't give you this platform, the Blue Dog and Mad did. I seriously doubt that God has nothing better to do than influence people to give you a platform to post. Maybe God gave you life so you can participate on this platform. Funny though, you'd think nGod had us right where he wanted us over at CE. But the masses ran from His grasp. I wonder how many rats still post there.

[MJZiggy]

Does it still exist?

[pbmax]

...

Dieter Brock
Steve Fuller
David Garrard
Tommy Maddox
Mark Malone
...



I think Tebow is starting to make more sense now that I look at it.

[pbmax]

I thought he played well. He had a couple of bad drops and a few throwaways. He only bounced a couple of passes.
:)

You're right, he could be McNabb. But don't forget the absence of Ryan Clark.

[pbmax]

Jesus couldn't have said it better himself.

I think that was Psalm 151, not often published.

[jdrats]

The shit is just all ridiculous--why would any God pick one football player/team over another? Does Tebow's version of God love Denver more than Pittsburgh? Does his God love the sick children rooting for the Broncos more than the sick children rooting for the Steelers?

Give me a fucking break.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Tebow has gone out of his way to clearly state that he doesn't believe God is picking winners and losers. He's just thankful for all that his God and his savior has done for him. He feels blessed.

[pbmax]

Agreed. But back to the numbers.... The NFL Network crew kept saying, "Only 10 for 21... how could they win?"

Well, Big Ben was 22 for 40, roughly the same numbers as Tebow, only double. But no one commented that Ben was "only 22 for 40." Why not?

Each QB rushed for a 5 yard average, but TT had 35 more yards than gimpy Ben and scored a tough TD. TT passed for 316 yards (pre-destined, of course, John 3:16) to Ben's 289, with no sacks or picks.

It wasn't pretty at times, but TT outplayed a veteran, two-time Super Bowl champ today, under a glaring media spotlight in his first playoff game. Tebow's faith is irrelevant to what he does on the field. The guy is gifted physically, is a natural leader, a fighter, and he's got 52 other teammates, coaches, and a city excited about a team that began the season 1-4.

It's a great football story.

Well, no one talks about how terrible 22 for 40 is when you lose. It fits more easily with a story of failure. If the Roethlisbergers won, then you might have heard "not great numbers but boy is he gritty, just like the bone chips in his ankle".

Then again, 22 for 40 is 55%, but 10 for 21 is 47%. Neither is great but one is substantially better.

[Tarlam!]

Tebow has gone out of his way to clearly state that he doesn't believe God is picking winners and losers. He's just thankful for all that his God and his savior has done for him. He feels blessed.

Good for him. I am the least bigoted person anyone could hope to meet. If your deity is a ping pong ball, good for you. Tebow should enjoy his relationship with God without any repercussions, but for the love of God, privately. Having him "share" his relationship with me when a mic is put in front of him is pornographic to my senses. I am keen to listen to his take on the game. I want to hear how he assesses his own performance.

Like I've always said, I admire the kid's talent and up tempo attitude. He's a role model to those who buckle in the face of adversity and he appears to be a genuinely nice kid.

I also have zero problem with the praying on the sidelines or the tebowing after a TD. None whatsoever. I just can't handle 4-6 "thank you, God(s)" in the space of an 8 minute interview and 4 "I am blessed(s)". It makes me vomit in my mouth. Other players and coaches are equally in a close relationship with a deity of their choice and make do with one "thank you, God" and one simple "I am blessed" to round it off.

[ThunderDan]

Well, no one talks about how terrible 22 for 40 is when you lose. It fits more easily with a story of failure. If the Rothliesbergers won, then you might have heard "not great numbers but boy is his gritty, just like the bone chips in his ankle".

Then again, 22 for 40 is 55%, but 10 for 21 is 47%. Neither is great but one is substantially better.

There sure was a lot of Ben bashing after his Super Bowl win against Seattle.

[mmmdk]

Couple of things. I'm far from an insecure person. You do not know what I believe in, be it a Christian God or any other deity. Because I don't share my religious beliefs and I find it offensive when people do, especially people that have the means to influence weak-minded individuals one way or the other. I think offensive is incorrect. My mistake. I should say repulsive. That is closer to how I feel about "witnessing in the name of Christ". Repulsed. I will remind you again, this is how a vast number of wars have started.

Lastly, God didn't give you this platform, the Blue Dog and Mad did. I seriously doubt that God has nothing better to do than influence people to give you a platform to post. Maybe God gave you life so you can participate on this platform. Funny though, you'd think nGod had us right where he wanted us over at CE. But the masses ran from His grasp. I wonder how many rats still post there.

I got your back, Tar! Very well put!! :tup:

[Tarlam!]

I got your back, Tar! Very well put!! :tup:

Thanks Michael!

[mmmdk]

There sure was a lot of Ben bashing after his Super Bowl win against Seattle.

At the time, Big Ben wasn't much of a god believer. Then Big Ben started showing his "big thing" around but that was bad, Big Ben! Yet 'lo and behold' a "god" was presented to him and now Big Ben has a god on his side and millions now admire the once bad Big Ben and his thing. Big Ben can now become President in a country called America...if he so wishes!

[mmmdk]

Ups! This thread has been derailed a wee bit; my best friend Martin & I totally enjoyed watching Tebow & the Broncos beat the Steelers last night. It even brought a big smile to my Falcon fan friend! More Tebow please - I won't mind it one bit.

[Tarlam!]

It even brought a big smile to my Falcon fan friend!

He could smile after the giants game? Wow, now I KNOW you live in Denmark! Haha. :lol:

[mmmdk]

He could smile after the giants game? Wow, now I KNOW you live in Denmark! Haha. :lol:

I know! He even said: "When they play this sh!tty then they deserve to lose"! Gotta admire that! :smile:

Oh and the words he had for Mularkey...MY GOODNESS!!! :shock:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good for him. I am the least bigoted person anyone could hope to meet. If your deity is a ping pong ball, good for you. Tebow should enjoy his relationship with God without any repercussions, but for the love of God, privately. Having him "share" his relationship with me when a mic is put in front of him is pornographic to my senses. I am keen to listen to his take on the game. I want to hear how he assesses his own performance.

Like I've always said, I admire the kid's talent and up tempo attitude. He's a role model to those who buckle in the face of adversity and he appears to be a genuinely nice kid.

I also have zero problem with the praying on the sidelines or the tebowing after a TD. None whatsoever. I just can't handle 4-6 "thank you, God(s)" in the space of an 8 minute interview and 4 "I am blessed(s)". It makes me vomit in my mouth. Other players and coaches are equally in a close relationship with a deity of their choice and make do with one "thank you, God" and one simple "I am blessed" to round it off.

If you truly believed what Tebow believes, then it would go against your faith not to share the virtues of Jesus Christ. He truly believes the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ.

I think this video from Penn Jillette (from Penn & Teller) goes to Tebow's way of thinking. Penn is an atheist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=fa9JE_ZVL88

[Tarlam!]

If you truly believed what Tebow believes, then it would go against your faith not to share the virtues of Jesus Christ. He truly believes the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ.

Harv, he can share all he wants, but in an environment that is fitting. A simple "I am blessed" during an interview regarding the game of football is sufficient and inoffensive. A harmless "I praise Jesus" once in a while? Nobody really gives a toss.

Rodgers has also made it clear that his Lord and Saviour is named Christ. The majority of athletes that believe aren't repulsive with their public articulation. Tebow takes it far too far.

As I clearly stated, it is the amount of sharing that has me utterly repulsed. Too much of a good think is a bad thing. Like water. 3-4 litres a day is a good, healthy thing. 30-40 litres will drown you.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Like water. 3-4 litres a day is a good, healthy thing. 30-40 litres will drown you.

It is however enough for a wet T-Shirt contest.

[Kiwon]

Good for him. I am the least bigoted person anyone could hope to meet. If your deity is a ping pong ball, good for you. Tebow should enjoy his relationship with God without any repercussions, but for the love of God, privately. Having him "share" his relationship with me when a mic is put in front of him is pornographic to my senses. I am keen to listen to his take on the game. I want to hear how he assesses his own performance.

Like I've always said, I admire the kid's talent and up tempo attitude. He's a role model to those who buckle in the face of adversity and he appears to be a genuinely nice kid.

I also have zero problem with the praying on the sidelines or the tebowing after a TD. None whatsoever. I just can't handle 4-6 "thank you, God(s)" in the space of an 8 minute interview and 4 "I am blessed(s)". It makes me vomit in my mouth. Other players and coaches are equally in a close relationship with a deity of their choice and make do with one "thank you, God" and one simple "I am blessed" to round it off.

Tarlam, you are kidding yourself. You are a first-class, religious bigot.

This man, whom you don't know at all, is not harming you in any way. This "I,me,my" talk on your part is ridiculous. Oh, this horrible human being is assaulting your delicate senses by saying "I am blessed"? Good grief, man, you need therapy.

America is not Europe, thank God, and we have a Judeo-Christian foundation AND Freedom of Speech, and even (gasp), Freedom of Religion. Tim Tebow is not going to change. His personality is what it is. You've stated your opposition over and over. So get over it already, you whiner. Most Americans probably don't agree with Tebow on a lot of things but we don't freak out over him expressing some basic, standard religious beliefs.

You claim that "I am the least bigoted person anyone could hope to meet," well, start acting like it. So far, you've come across as preachy, intolerant, narrow-minded and very bigoted.

God bless you! Now, did you lose your lunch? :roll:

[pbmax]

Tarlam, you are kidding yourself. You are a first-class, religious bigot.

This man, whom you don't know at all, is not harming you in any way. This "I,me,my" talk on your part is ridiculous. Oh, this horrible human being is assaulting your delicate senses by saying "I am blessed"? Good grief, man, you need therapy.

America is not Europe, thank God, and we have a Judeo-Christian foundation AND Freedom of Speech, and even (gasp), Freedom of Religion. Tim Tebow is not going to change. His personality is what it is. You've stated your opposition over and over. So get over it already, you whiner. Most Americans probably don't agree with Tebow on a lot of things but we don't freak out over him expressing some basic, standard religious beliefs.

You claim that "I am the least bigoted person anyone could hope to meet," well, start acting like it. So far, you've come across as preachy, intolerant, narrow-minded and very bigoted.

God bless you! Now, did you lose your lunch? :roll:

OK, I'll bite. Exactly how is Tarlam stepping on Tebow's right to be protected from State and Federal interference in his religious expression? Tarlam isn't Austria, Alabama or the Department of Agriculture; he is a poster, and is as entitled to his right to be offended by Tebow's statements as Tebow is entitled to make them. What, exactly, does Europe have to do with this disagreement?

Surely you do not think that only Europeans find Tebow's public proclamations of faith tiring?

[mmmdk]

It is however enough for a wet T-Shirt contest.

:rs: :lol:

[Kiwon]

OK, I'll bite. Exactly how is Tarlam stepping on Tebow's right to be protected from State and Federal interference in his religious expression? Tarlam isn't Austria, Alabama or the Department of Agriculture; he is a poster, and is as entitled to his right to be offended by Tebow's statements as Tebow is entitled to make them. What, exactly, does Europe have to do with this disagreement?

Surely you do not think that only Europeans find Tebow's public proclamations of faith tiring?

Oh, spare me! Yeah, Tarlam, is offended. How many times does he need to repeat himself before we get the message?

Tebow is not changing and he will be a player in the league for a long time. It's a situation Tarlam can't control and instead of the histrionics and claiming that Tebow is assaulting him, it's more sensible to come back to reality and move on. Or will this thread overtake the 'Farve' thread as the longest in PR history?

I don't like Hip-Hop, the music, the values, the lyrics, but I don't whine about it constantly. I generally ignore it. I offer you and Tarlam this same advice.

[sharpe1027]

Tarlam, you are kidding yourself. You are a first-class, religious bigot.

This man, whom you don't know at all, is not harming you in any way. This "I,me,my" talk on your part is ridiculous. Oh, this horrible human being is assaulting your delicate senses by saying "I am blessed"? Good grief, man, you need therapy.

America is not Europe, thank God, and we have a Judeo-Christian foundation AND Freedom of Speech, and even (gasp), Freedom of Religion. Tim Tebow is not going to change. His personality is what it is. You've stated your opposition over and over. So get over it already, you whiner. Most Americans probably don't agree with Tebow on a lot of things but we don't freak out over him expressing some basic, standard religious beliefs.

You claim that "I am the least bigoted person anyone could hope to meet," well, start acting like it. So far, you've come across as preachy, intolerant, narrow-minded and very bigoted.

God bless you! Now, did you lose your lunch? :roll:

As suggested by Pbmax, Tarlam is no more denying Teboy's freedom of speech by criticizing his public opinion than you are denying on Tarlam's freedom of speech by criticizing his public opinion. Freedom of speech encourages discourse between disagreeing parties, it does not entitle someone to make a public statement without being criticized.

Tebow uses his popularity and publicity, obtained from playing a sport, as a vehicle to repeatedly mention his religion. Is it that unexpected that some people are put off listening to repeated religious references when they are watching a sporting event? Is it so terrible that someone thinks that this might not be the best venue for Tebow to be expressing his religious opinions? Nobody is saying that Tebow does not have the right to say what he does, but some people may find it tiresome. Some people want to enjoy football without being bombarded with religious statements every other sentence. The horror.

[mmmdk]

Thank goodness that I'm ½ Americanos, ½ European! That's why you love me more...:lol: But sometimes the "½'s" fight :cat: and the Scandinavian part (or third "½"???) is always caught in middle of this...Scandinavia might actually be my best "½"! Go figure.

[sharpe1027]

Oh, spare me! Yeah, Tarlam, is offended. How many times does he need to repeat himself before we get the message?


I can understand your dislike for the repetitive nature of Tarlam's posts on this subject. Tarlam has a similar issue with Tebow's comments on religion. How many times does he need to repeat himself before we get the message?

[gbgary]

i just ignore tebow. he really doesn't say much. he thanks EVERYONE and that's about it.