Outside The Lines-Johnny Jolly

[Joemailman]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/34323/outside-the-lines-johnny-jolly

Jolly will be the subject of an Outside The Lines report on ESPN tomorrow. In it he talks about his life spiraling out of control after he was suspended from the NFL. Obviously he created the situation which led to the suspension, but it may lead to a debate about whether players on suspension should be separated from their team while dealing with an addiction issue.

Aaron Rodgers had this to say about it in October:

“I’ve been in touch with him off and on the last couple years. It’s just disappointing. And I’ll be honest, I think the league deserves some of the blame in this case,” Rodgers said, on ESPN Milwaukee, according to sportsradiointerviews.com. “When you look at some of the other guys that have been reinstated in the league after jail sentences, and justly, rightly so, Johnny didn’t serve any days in prison, sat out for a year and still couldn’t get his case heard, from what I was told. I just think that that’s wrong.

“I think the commissioner’s done a great job of cleaning up some of the stuff in the league. That said, if you take a guy away from his support system … I don’t think that’s helping.”

[red]

pretty sad story

and a-rod is spot on. i've been critical of jolly and all his repeats, but him getting suspended for that whole year was pretty nuts

[Harlan Huckleby]

if Jolly will just find Jesus, maybe even become a man of the cloth, the NFL will take him back. Wish it had happened before the TV special, but its never too late for a good redemption story.

[MadScientist]

Jolly's quote:

"My only friend was the codeine, and it kept me numb," Jolly says in a report by Mark Fainaru-Wada. "It kept me from losing my mind. Me losing football is like me losing a loved one, or a bunch of loved ones, at one time.”

I'd guess that is the reason he can't get over the addiction. He needs to turn on codeine as the curse that is keeping him from football, and cost him a SB ring.

[Freak Out]

He's weak.

[pbmax]

Unfortunately, this kind of continued relapse thing probably depends on a lot of factors and requires some care consideration and flexibility. Some players might be more tempted to abuse substances while in their football environment. Others, perhaps like Jolly, outside of that environment.

A reasonable measure would be to evaluate where the player is most likely to succeed and offer that option. Go home and rehab or stay connected to the team in some way and rehab. Or perhaps some need to be on a tropical island for six months and rehab. Of course, subtlety and flexibility are not the hallmarks of bureaucracies or commissioners.

Of course, the player could reject all suggestions and advice and end up where Jolly is.

[Fritz]

"Me losing football is like me losing a loved one, or a bunch of loved ones, at one time.”

I would like to be Jolly's publicist and help him make the loss clearer:

"Me losing football is like me losing a well-loved hooker, or a bunch of hookers who liked to take turns on me and talk dirty with me while performing lewd acts on one another."

[Scott Campbell]

Players are always an instant away from having football taken away from them, be it by suspension or by injury. I feel nearly as bad about his dependence on football as I do about his dependence on the substance.

[MadtownPacker]

ARod is right but Jolly sounds just like all the other dope fiends I have ever heard. He is not willing to take all the blame. He is not ready to change.

[Tony Oday]

If he is in shape we could use him...just give him a chaperone

[pbmax]

"Me losing football is like me losing a loved one, or a bunch of loved ones, at one time.”

I would like to be Jolly's publicist and help him make the loss clearer:

"Me losing football is like me losing a well-loved hooker, or a bunch of hookers who liked to take turns on me and talk dirty with me while performing lewd acts on one another."

I think you meant to say "like to be Jolly's enabler" :lol:

[pbmax]

ARod is right but Jolly sounds just like all the other dope fiends I have ever heard. He is not willing to take all the blame. He is not ready to change.

You mean the blame it on the circumstance or something else?

Because admitting to going back to the substance that got you suspended in the first place (directly or indirectly) does seem to indicate he never got off Square 1.

[Zpark93]

Dont feel bad for him as a football player because its not a right to play. But as a person I hope he can get his life together.

[MJZiggy]

Dont feel bad for him as a football player because its not a right to play. But as a person I hope he can get his life together.

As a football player, I feel bad for the waste of obvious talent and the contributions he could have made for our team. That said, it's secondary to the fact that as a human, he needed to get the treatment that worked for him. I understand the policy as putting the league up as an example, yet, I think there's room to evaluate situations. Maybe they can't play, but if they need the support from the team, they can get it somehow.

[Joemailman]

The thing that should have been considered was that Johnny Jolly didn't seem to have the drug problem when he was with the team in Green Bay. It was when he was at home with plenty of idle time. So the NFL decided to separate him from the Packers. This was a case where the team should have had some leeway on how to handle the situation, rather than an edict being handed down by people who didn't know Jolly.

[MadtownPacker]

You mean the blame it on the circumstance or something else?

Because admitting to going back to the substance that got you suspended in the first place (directly or indirectly) does seem to indicate he never got off Square 1.
Blaming it on any fucking body or thing that isnt you and you alone means you are full of shit. Admitting it to themselves is Square 1.

[MadtownPacker]

The thing that should have been considered was that Johnny Jolly didn't seem to have the drug problem when he was with the team in Green Bay. It was when he was at home with plenty of idle time. So the NFL decided to separate him from the Packers. This was a case where the team should have had some leeway on how to handle the situation, rather than an edict being handed down by people who didn't know Jolly.
This is a good point. In many regular jobs employees can rehab while still working. Unlike Plaxico popping off the pistol Jolly was mostly just hurting himself. NFL was too heavy handed on this one.

[Upnorth]

"Me losing football is like me losing a loved one, or a bunch of loved ones, at one time.”

I would like to be Jolly's publicist and help him make the loss clearer:

"Me losing football is like me losing a well-loved hooker, or a bunch of hookers who liked to take turns on me and talk dirty with me while performing lewd acts on one another."

I never realized you were a romantic until right now.

[Smidgeon]

Players are always an instant away from having football taken away from them, be it by suspension or by injury. I feel nearly as bad about his dependence on football as I do about his dependence on the substance.

+1

[JohnMexico]

Arguing with others about addiction, especially on the internet, is futile. I can't really subscribe to ever being physically dependent on a drug. Usage yes, but not all of us get suckered in.

Rather than call him weak, I'd call him a victim of circumstance. That being said, he wasn't forced into his circumstance. He needed to get out of Houston. Smells trigger things; all that UGK being blasted out of cars' speakers trigger memories. He's on the same blocks he was on ten years ago, and the influence of his environment never really leaves. Even the most reformed of fiends don't resort to calling themselves Superman. Instead, they get the fuck out of places like this. They eject negative influences from their lives, so that they'll never put themselves into positions to relapse.

Johnny just seemed to be lonely. I don't know if there was much awareness of his issue at home. I don't know if much attention was paid to his addiction until his arrests and his life had already spiraled out of control. It makes me wondered how far he pushed himself away from his loved ones, whether it was out of shame or out of other familial issues. Apparently Green Bay and its programs/support system was his only true friend.

What's tragic is that wasn't the only one available for him, so the lockout isn't the true problem here. Denial is a bitch and I just hope that it isn't too late to turn his shit around.

[mission]

Blaming it on any fucking body or thing that isnt you and you alone means you are full of shit. Admitting it to themselves is Square 1.

100% true, but it IS a lot harder to do drugs at work!

They're bad. Bad, bad, bad... always wonder how people let it go so far that they completely fuck up everything in their life though. At a certain point -- and I've had to do this -- you need to be able to recognize that you're on a very destructive path and you need to dramatically alter your course.

I missed the segment about Jolly but you'd like to see him bounce back a bit. Maybe get a used car salesman gig or something.

[Smidgeon]

Arguing with others about addiction, especially on the internet, is futile. I can't really subscribe to ever being physically dependent on a drug. Usage yes, but not all of us get suckered in.

Rather than call him weak, I'd call him a victim of circumstance. That being said, he wasn't forced into his circumstance. He needed to get out of Houston. Smells trigger things; all that UGK being blasted out of cars' speakers trigger memories. He's on the same blocks he was on ten years ago, and the influence of his environment never really leaves. Even the most reformed of fiends don't resort to calling themselves Superman. Instead, they get the fuck out of places like this. They eject negative influences from their lives, so that they'll never put themselves into positions to relapse.

Johnny just seemed to be lonely. I don't know if there was much awareness of his issue at home. I don't know if much attention was paid to his addiction until his arrests and his life had already spiraled out of control. It makes me wondered how far he pushed himself away from his loved ones, whether it was out of shame or out of other familial issues. Apparently Green Bay and its programs/support system was his only true friend.

What's tragic is that wasn't the only one available for him, so the lockout isn't the true problem here. Denial is a bitch and I just hope that it isn't too late to turn his shit around.

Very eloquently stated. I think I'll enjoy reading your posts.

[red]

and now he's going to prison for 6 years. he'll be up for parole in 2013

career, meet toilet

[yooperfan]

career, meet toilet

Life , meet toilet. I doubt in prison he will get the help he could use.

[MadScientist]

Life , meet toilet. I doubt in prison he will get the help he could use.

Maybe he will learn to deal with his situation without drinking codeine.

[Old School]

There are points to be made about having Jolly around the team as support for him. What about the great pains the Packers take to have a clean locker room? Do you want younger players around a guy, say in the weight room, who is one brain fart away from hitting the steet to score drugs because his day isn't going quite right?

I feel bad for him, but remember he got busted 4 times. There are plenty of places he could have gone and sought help. I'm sure his agent or even the NFL would have pointed him in the right direction if he were open to it, but he chose to back to Huston.

[Smidgeon]

Life , meet toilet. I doubt in prison he will get the help he could use.

But perhaps in prison he'll be forced to get the help he needs. Maybe.

[Guiness]

and now he's going to prison for 6 years. he'll be up for parole in 2013

career, meet toilet

Six years? Did I miss something? (no, I didn't read TFA)

[red]

Six years? Did I miss something? (no, I didn't read TFA)

here's the story from pft


Johnny Jolly gets six years in prison (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/17/johnny-jolly-gets-six-years-in-prison/)

Posted by Michael David Smith on November 17, 2011, 2:54 PM EST

Suspended Packers defensive lineman Johnny Jolly, who has been arrested four times on drug charges, has been sentenced to six years in prison.
The Associated Press reports that Jolly tearfully asked Judge Denise Bradley for another chance (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-packers-jolly), but Bradley decided he’s had enough chances.
This sentence is the result of a probation violation for getting arrested with codeine and tampering with evidence in October. His probation stemmed from a plea deal he got in April over a previous arrest for codeine possession.
According to a Houston TV report, Jolly could be eligible for parole in January of 2013 (http://twitter.com/#%21/gbpressgazette/status/137250462540902401).
Jolly started all 16 games for the Packers in both 2008 and 2009 and was looking like one of the most promising young defensive tackles in football, but his addiction to codeine has torn his career — and his life — apart. And this sentence could mean he’s done playing football for good

[hoosier]

Damn, six years for codeine. I am sure there is a perspective out there from which that seems justifiable and the right thing. But from where I am sitting right now and comparing that to the kind of punishments meted out to repeat offending drunk drivers and spouse abusers, that just seems excessive and counterproductive.

[mraynrand]

Damn, six years for codeine. I am sure there is a perspective out there from which that seems justifiable and the right thing. But from where I am sitting right now and comparing that to the kind of punishments meted out to repeat offending drunk drivers and spouse abusers, that just seems excessive and counterproductive.

"I didn't even know that was a crime. There have been a lot of changes in the law."
http://floresgirl.com/floresgirl_blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/casey-anthony-trial-sentence-verdict.jpg

[Fritz]

"I didn't even know that was a crime. There have been a lot of changes in the law."
http://floresgirl.com/floresgirl_blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/casey-anthony-trial-sentence-verdict.jpg

I'd do her.

[Kiwon]

At some point, a person has to appreciate the blessed position that he is in and the fear of losing that becomes more of an obssession than any destructive personal habit. It starts with a choice. Always.

[red]

I'd do her.

took the words right out of my mouth fritz

i'll take one of the other holes

[Brandon494]

6 years? smh

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck!! 6 years for this shit??? I know mfers that have got with kilos of coke who get 5. Dude needed to get like 12 months in county. I'm sure he will do like half the 6 but still heavy handed. Is this is Texas?

[red]

Fuck!! 6 years for this shit??? I know mfers that have got with kilos of coke who get 5. Dude needed to get like 12 months in county. I'm sure he will do like half the 6 but still heavy handed. Is this is Texas?


yes it is in texas

he's lucky they didn't give him the chair

[Freak Out]

Fuck you Jolly and fuck you Texas.....now he's going to cost the tax payers how much? Do we know how he was getting the "cough syrup"? Was it from the cough syrup cartel or was it from some doctor writing scrips? Stupid of him but wtf?

[Fosco33]

yes it is in texas

he's lucky they didn't give him the chair

Yup - and the funny part of the law. They count the fluid oz of liquid as entirely of codeine. And with the 4th arrest and violating parole, with the 'felony' - you'll get more time in most states (including TX).

MTP - it'd be the equivalent of making a hella batch of brownies and county chocolate as THC.

[Fosco33]

So sick of the counterproductive, costly and somewhat unfair drug laws in this country.

Legalize, commercialize - basically everything. Have laws the make it counter intuitive to make bad choices (i.e., impacts to health insurance costs, drug tests for manufacturing jobs, pilots, etc.; drug tests for welfare recipients, etc.). Or better - create incentives to not use drugs.

Take the extreme 'sin' tax and savings from DEA/local law and flood it with education and rehab.

War on Drugs is a huge loss. Leads to organized crime here and internationally. Huge black market of untapped revenue.

Free up overcrowing prisons for the Sanduskys of the world.

[Freak Out]

No doubt.....was Jolly a threat to society? Pull his drivers license and impound his car or something.

[JohnMexico]

I believe it is basically a 14 month sentence, being that he's eligible for parole in January 2013.

But this whole thing makes me angry. This fucking country and it's priorities.

[mission]

Everyone except black people thought OJ was guilty, Casey Anthony was going to jail... Sandusky probably gets off super easy on some inside donations and does 2 years at a country club. Dude deserves to get dragged to his death while set on fire without an accelerant. Jolly gets 6 years for being self destructive. Shit's fucked up.

[Guiness]

Anyone have any sort of a link to what he was charged with, and convicted with?

I found this on ESPN

Jolly was charged Saturday with possession of a compound containing codeine. He also was charged with tampering with evidence for attempting to conceal the substance from investigators, according to records.

The tampering with evidence sounds ominous, but all it was is that he threw a bag out the window (which they didn't recover) and dumped a cup of something on the floorboards.

It sure seems insane to me that he would get 6 yrs as his first stretch of jail time for a non-violent, non-trafficking offense. I know it was a breach of probation so his old charges came back, but wow.

Of course, the sheer insanity of him getting caught again in early October still defies understanding as well.

[MadtownPacker]

Im thinking he got did like lots of MFers I know. He signed some jacked probation deal that helped him avoid like a two year sentence. Catch is the probation is usually to a harder charge than what they could found him guilty of. If he plays ball and doesnt fuck up all is well but they like to give out just enough rope so you can hang yourself. Once you push it too far you are back in court and the old charges are used against you. At this point you cannot fight it by trial or any way because you already plead guilty to get the probation. The probation dept recommends what they think you should get to the judge and then he usually dishes that or more out. Basically he should have took the time at first and he would have been all done by now.

[Fritz]

took the words right out of my mouth fritz

i'll take one of the other holes

You're my kind of guy, Red.