funny Jordy Nelson article...

[gbgary]

:) he's the white guy...

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/green-bay-packers-reciever-plays-race-card

13 tds in his last 15 games?! really? wow...didn't realize that.

[Brandon494]

Dude has really stepped his game up and hes killing it for me in fantasy this year :)

[vince]

White guys play best in the cold too. Well, except for the guys who are part Eskimo.

[Brandon494]

White guys play best in the cold too. Well, except for the guys who are part Eskimo.

That is one thing I'm worried about, the one game Rodgers struggled in last year during the playoffs was the game in Chicago. Also the fact that the team that we will most likely be facing will be SF who is team is built perfect for playing in Lambeau at the time of the year. I have faith in Starks though, the dude hasn't really had a chance to get a lot of carries in a game yet and should be pretty fresh when the time does come when we'll need him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Some racist shit right there

[mraynrand]

That is one thing I'm worried about, the one game Rodgers struggled in last year during the playoffs was the game in Chicago. Also the fact that the team that we will most likely be facing will be SF who is team is built perfect for playing in Lambeau at the time of the year. I have faith in Starks though, the dude hasn't really had a chance to get a lot of carries in a game yet and should be pretty fresh when the time does come when we'll need him.


We'll be playing the NFCC game in San Fran, so no worries. Rodgers has a better wet ball grip than Alex Smith. Just ask The Skinbasket, he knows about these things.

[mraynrand]

White guys play best in the cold too. Well, except for the guys who are part Eskimo.

not always
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3508/932674-favre_after_int_super.jpg

[Guiness]

Some racist shit right there

It's the blood, man.

I've worked up north...offshore oil patch stuff.

First year we had all kinds of nationalities. By the start of the second winter we were down to pretty much Canadians, Russians and a few Scott hanger on's. One guy from Minnesota. I swear, anyone with pigment in their skin was long gone by Christmas the first year.

Flat out could not deal with it. It's not a matter of racism, it's a matter of being adapted to the environment.

[yooperfan]

Ah but can he jump???

Loved Jordy's stiff arm on that touchdown run. As my nephew said, he was Beastly.

[Fritz]

I wonder if there'd be reaction if there was an article about an African-American QB who was in his fourth year, developing a bit more each year, and the article quoted teammates who said opponents underestimated him because he was black?

Crazy world. Crazy times.

[Brandon494]

I dont think teams underestimate Nelson really but it's hard to try to take him out of the game when you have to worry about Jennings and Finley.

[retailguy]

I dont think teams underestimate Nelson really but it's hard to try to take him out of the game when you have to worry about Jennings and Finley.


Is this why you laughed at me when I drafted him in our fantasy league this year?

[Smeefers]

I wonder if there'd be reaction if there was an article about an African-American QB who was in his fourth year, developing a bit more each year, and the article quoted teammates who said opponents underestimated him because he was black?

Crazy world. Crazy times.

That wouldn't come up, because there's plenty of black quarterbacks out there. I can name 5 off the top of my head. It's not the Warren Moon era of that position any more. I do wonder what the reaction would be if they said that about a Chinese tight end. Probably the same as this one: A shoulder shrug about guys talking honestly about race in a completely fine manner.

[Kiwon]

I'm not a fan of this type of article. It is built off popular racial stereotypes which is taboo as a way of thinking these days according to the PC-experts. Only "racists" think this way is their warning,

But wait, Nelson is Caucasian, his teammates and defenders are generally Black so the article is publishable. Say what? Why is it okay to talk about racial assumptions in this case and not others? If the article solely focused on the assumed characteristics of Black athletes based upon their race it would be deemed backward and "racist" and potentially, dangerous. Some of that IS included, with the assumptions that Black athletes are faster and tougher than Whites. Apparently, those are okay assumptions. Likewise, Whites are slower and weaker than Blacks according to the article. Those seem to be acceptable to say as well.

But what other stereotypes based upon race is the writer leaving out? Some assumptions may not be positive. Can we talk about them as well? That article would not get published, would it?

Isn't the whole article based upon 'pre-judging'? Supposedly, that's the way that ignorant, racists think, the kind of thinking a civilized society should try to eradicate.

I'm not a fan of the PC-Thought Police, but if racial stereotyping is wrong, it should be wrong in all cases, even when talking about a talented, Caucasian wide receiver for the Green Bay Packers. Sadly, apparently, another talented player, Greg Jennings, is racist. He needs sensitivity training, maybe a summer session at UWM and a year's subscription to the Journal-Sentinel to get his mind right.

Kudos to Jordy for a great run as a wide receiver in the NFL as he overcomes his genetic deficiencies.

[Freak Out]

That wouldn't come up, because there's plenty of black quarterbacks out there. I can name 5 off the top of my head. It's not the Warren Moon era of that position any more. I do wonder what the reaction would be if they said that about a Chinese tight end. Probably the same as this one: A shoulder shrug about guys talking honestly about race in a completely fine manner.

Have any Chinkers ever played in the NFL?

[Brandon494]

^ talk about overracting

[Brandon494]

Have any Chinkers ever played in the NFL?

Ed Wang of Virginia Tech was drafted a few ago by the Bills I believe .

[Freak Out]

Ed Wang of Virginia Tech was drafted a few ago by the Bills I believe .

Wasn't there a LB or a Safety that was drafted out of Texas AM that was of Asian descent? Vietnamese maybe?

[Joemailman]

Ed Wang of Virginia Tech was drafted a few ago by the Bills I believe .

Is that the same guy who does my dry cleaning?

[gbgary]

wasn't there a chung a few years ago too? don't know if was chinese or not.

[Brandon494]

Wasn't there a LB or a Safety that was drafted out of Texas AM that was of Asian descent? Vietnamese maybe?

Yea I know who your talking about, can't remember his name but he was a LB and pretty damn good.

[gbgary]

Dat Tan Nguyen played for the 'boys.

[Freak Out]

Dat Tan Nguyen played for the 'boys.

That's the guy.

[Joemailman]

wasn't there a chung a few years ago too? don't know if was chinese or not.

Eugene Chunghttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChunEu20.htm

Patrick Chunghttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChunPa99.htm

[Smeefers]

Well, there's been a ton of Samoan players, and I suppose they're technically asian, but straight up Chineese?


Hines Ward (Pittsburgh Steelers WR) is half black and Korean.

Will Demps (Houston Texans S) is half black and Korean.

Kailee Wong (retired LB) is half black and Chinese.

Haruki Nakamura (Baltimore Ravens S) is Japanese.

Dat Nguyen (retired LB) is Vietnamese.

Noriaki Kinoshita (Atlanta Falcons WR) is Japanese.

Chris Gocong (Philadelphia Eagles LB) is Filipino.

Eugene Amano (Tennessee Titans G) is Filipino.

Scott Fujita (New Orleans Saints LB) identifies himself as Japanese (he is an adopted Caucasian).

Walter Achiu was the first Chinese NFL player (1927-8 Dayton Triangles)

[Guiness]

Well, I finally got around to RTFA. I'd retract my earlier post if I could.

Vince and Brandon494 made some comments about the cold, and the Deputy said racist - I thought he was talking about their comments when he said that. My comment was in reference to the cold.

I had no idea the article in the OP was that ridiculously racist.

[Fritz]

That's the guy.

You mean Dat's the guy.

And yes, it was Ed "Son of Connie" Chung.

[Pugger]

I don't think the article is anti-white or a slam on Jordy. It is more of a slam on black DBs who underestimate Nelson because he is white. I hope they continue to while Jordy is sprinting past them on the way to the end zone. :wink:

[mraynrand]

Walter Achiu was the first Chinese NFL player (1927-8 Dayton Triangles)


Bless You

[mraynrand]

Eugene Chunghttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChunEu20.htm

Patrick Chunghttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChunPa99.htm


Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Pat Chung tonight.

[mraynrand]

Is this why you laughed at me when I drafted him in our fantasy league this year?

The Brandon prism only passes a select few wavelengths of light.

[gbgary]

Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Pat Chung tonight.

:lol:

[gbgary]

Walter Achiu was the first Chinese NFL player (1927-8 Dayton Triangles)

Gesundheit!

[Brandon494]

I don't think the article is anti-white or a slam on Jordy. It is more of a slam on black DBs who underestimate Nelson because he is white. I hope they continue to while Jordy is sprinting past them on the way to the end zone. :wink:

These guys watch film of Nelson every week before they play the Pack, it's foolish to think they are underestimating Nelson because he's white when their jobs are on the line. Maybe it has something to do with Nelson getting single coverage by the 2nd or 3rd CB nearly every play because we are loaded on offense.

[vince]

These guys watch film of Nelson every week before they play the Pack, it's foolish to think they are underestimating Nelson because he's white when their jobs are on the line. Maybe it has something to do with Nelson getting single coverage by the 2nd or 3rd CB nearly every play because we are loaded on offense.
Agreed. Plus this whole idea is a bit of a slap in the face to the idea that he's actually a pretty good receiver who isn't exactly sneaking up on the opposition any more. He's been good for awhile now. He has a very good combination of size, strength, speed, hands, intelligence, and chemistry with his quarterback that is tough to match up against whether the DBs covering him are black, white, or something else.

[gbgary]

that article isn't serious folks.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Settle down everyone. It's all white.

[Smeefers]

These guys watch film of Nelson every week before they play the Pack, it's foolish to think they are underestimating Nelson because he's white when their jobs are on the line. Maybe it has something to do with Nelson getting single coverage by the 2nd or 3rd CB nearly every play because we are loaded on offense.

I don't think their jobs are on the line if they get blown up by Jordy, everybody's doing it :p. They would be idiots if they ignored him because of his race. I've never once even heard of an idiot in the NFL, so that probably never happens...

Man. No matter how I try to respond to you Brandon, I keep coming off like an ass. I swear that's not how I'm trying to go about this. I think Jordy Nelson was probably dismissed initially in part because of his race. And his goofy "Aww shucks paa" look. Now that he's starting to make such an impact on the offense, of course players, regardless of race, are going to take him seriously. Also, I don't believe the "Nelson being covered by the #2 corner" hold water. I could see your argument working if you were talking about cobb going against the #5 CB when we spread them out, but not our #2 against their #2 where he's constantly winning the battles. By that logic, Greg Jennings is playing so well because they can't focus on him and double team him all the time because there's so many other good recievers on this team.

[sharpe1027]

Isn't the whole article based upon 'pre-judging'? Supposedly, that's the way that ignorant, racists think, the kind of thinking a civilized society should try to eradicate.

I'm not a fan of the PC-Thought Police, but if racial stereotyping is wrong, it should be wrong in all cases, even when talking about a talented, Caucasian wide receiver for the Green Bay Packers. Sadly, apparently, another talented player, Greg Jennings, is racist. He needs sensitivity training, maybe a summer session at UWM and a year's subscription to the Journal-Sentinel to get his mind right.

Kudos to Jordy for a great run as a wide receiver in the NFL as he overcomes his genetic deficiencies.

The gist of the article is that people incorrectly stereotype Jordy because he is white. Isn't it a good thing to point out that the stereotype based upon race is wrong?

[Freak Out]

Walter Achiu was the first Chinese NFL player (1927-8 Dayton Triangles)

The Dayton Triangles? Now that is awesome.

[gbgary]

Walter Achiu was the first Chinese NFL player (1927-8 Dayton Triangles)

The Dayton Triangles? Now that is awesome.


http://theunknowngem.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/daytontriangles4a.gif http://yesteryear.homestead.com/1928_Dayton_Triangles.JPG

[Brandon494]

The gist of the article is that people incorrectly stereotype Jordy because he is white. Isn't it a good thing to point out that the stereotype based upon race is wrong?

He's just mad because he doesnt get to stereotype blacks.

[mraynrand]

http://theunknowngem.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/daytontriangles4a.gif http://yesteryear.homestead.com/1928_Dayton_Triangles.JPG


Wasn't that uniform in Logan's Run? Or Flash Gordon?

[gbgary]

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/297519_10150396635000073_71671905072_8682934_13892 02755_n.jpg

[channtheman]

^^^ RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gbgary]

yous guys in Green Bay would know more than me because you see/hear him more on the local sports but i've only heard him speak once i think...jordy doesn't seem like the sharpest tack in the drawer. please tell me i'm wrong.

[channtheman]

yous guys in Green Bay would know more than me because you see/hear him more on the local sports but i've only heard him speak once i think...jordy doesn't seem like the sharpest tack in the drawer. please tell me i'm wrong.

He WAS born in Kansas. Kansas folk aint the sharpest tack in the draw either.

[Kiwon]

The gist of the article is that people incorrectly stereotype Jordy because he is white. Isn't it a good thing to point out that the stereotype based upon race is wrong?

No, you have completely wrong. The article doesn’t knock down assumptions based on race, it adds credence to them. Reread the article.

The article is mainly quoting Greg Jennings and bolsters his opinions on racial stereotypes. To the surprise of him, the other Black players in the league and even Black coaches (Joe Whitt, Jr.), Jordy Nelson plays the wide receiver position well as a Caucasian. Don’t let the skin color fool you. Jordy is fast.

Jennings officially declares that Jordy Nelson does not play wide receiver like a white guy. He plays at the skill level of a Black. That’s what he is saying. And the article writer says nothing to dismiss either Jennings’ assumptions or his statement. He lets it stand as is.

And that’s the point I am making. Supposedly, promoting racial stereotypes is wrong. Period. So why is it highlighted in a sports column and considered acceptable?

Just put Greg Jenning’s words and quotes attributed to coach Joe Whitt,Jr. in the context of the 1950’s NFL when most WR’s and DB’s and coaches were Caucasian; “Now, don’t let him fool you” and “It's easy for someone to say, 'Oh yeah, he's like one of those other white receivers.’…He’s not, I’m sorry, he’s not” becomes “Now, don’t let him fool you, even though he’s Black, he’s still smart enough to remember his route….He’s not like those other Black receivers who get confused or are scared to take a hit. I’m sorry, but this guy plays like a white guy. He’s actually a good football player.”

Folks want to gloss over the logic and reasoning because its football and it involves players on their favorite team, the Packers, and Jordy Nelson is playing along with it, even promoting it. But just because it’s a sports article doesn’t mean that the reader should stop thinking critically. The logic is flawed and that line of thinking is supposedly detrimental for society, according to “the experts.”

You can take the article as lighthearted if you want, and in reality it is. Jordy is promoting this stuff with the media. However, at the same time, it is also correct to expose the faulty reasoning and the double standards that the opinions in the article are based upon. If racial stereotyping is acceptable in the Sports world then in what other areas can we properly apply those same standards?

[mission]

Stereotypes are funny because they're (mostly) true. There are always exceptions -- and those you tend to appreciate -- but it is what it is.

[mraynrand]

Stereotypes are funny because they're (mostly) true. There are always exceptions -- and those you tend to appreciate -- but it is what it is.

I always heard Bose was the best, but I've had great luck with Kenwood.

[Kiwon]

Stereotypes are funny because they're (mostly) true. There are always exceptions -- and those you tend to appreciate -- but it is what it is.

You are 100% correct.

I get the thrust of the article and I love the fact that Greg Jennings appreciates Jordy Nelson for the talent he has and the work he has put in to improve. It really indicates that we've got great team chemistry.

But when I read something that uses race in a flippant way then my radar goes up and I don't like the implications. I'm not a PC guy by any stretch of the imagination but I do strongly think that individuals should be judged on character and merit and not pre-judged by factors (race, ethnicity, origin) that they have no control over.

[MadtownPacker]

Stereotypes are funny because they're (mostly) true. There are always exceptions -- and those you tend to appreciate -- but it is what it is.
And there it is!!

Jordy is the token White WR and I wouldnt have it any other way. He grew up on a farm so of course he is gonna be tough as fuck. If some dumb Ninja wants to take it easy on him cuz he is a Whitey that is their fuck up.

Anyone offended by this is full of shit. That is how the world is and if you say no it is just because you are PCed up and feel the need to lie to yourself.

[MadtownPacker]

He WAS born in Kansas. Kansas folk aint the sharpest tack in the draw either.



http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/stereotypes-07.jpg

[Guiness]

You are 100% on the money Kiwon. I was thinking roughly the same thing, but you expressed it with "he plays at the skill level of a Black."

[denverYooper]

I always heard Bose was the best, but I've had great luck with Kenwood.

I always liked Harman Kardon.

[pbmax]

Please note that the article from Yahoo is a rewrite of two other pieces. As such, it misses a lot of info.

There is another level at work here, that has not been discussed and it plays a role in both source stories. In the sports media and especialy in the world of punditry, commentary and draft speculation, all white WRs are supposed to be the same player and constantly compared only to each other, even when their game and skills are completely different. You see this every year at draft time: hard worker, good route runner, possession receiver, surprising athleticism. For a while, every white WR was just like Ricky Proehl or Ed McCaffrey. Later it was Wayne Chrebet. Now its Welker. For Packer fans it might be Bill Schroeder. None of them had much in common except skin color. You see jokes about this phenomenon on almost all sports blogs. The people most commonly caught in this trap at color (?!) announcers who haven't had time to develop a thought beyond the patently obvious (and usually wrong).

The article is a terrible rewrite of the original articles/interviews on the subject.

Wilde got into this with Rodgers on the radio: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=71&c=1191&f=276931

And he specifically mentions that all WR are supposed the be the same guy, only compared to the previous, best known white WR. If you listen to the interview, the topic starts about 8:00 in. In the Press Gazette article, they are specifically batting down comparisons to Jurevicious and McCaffrey when discussing Nelson with Jennings. Both those names came from Rodgers, who mentions both and seems to be falling into the same pundit trap, but then lists several reasons why Nelson is different from each.

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111116/PKR01/111116145/1058/Nelson-works-his-way-up-No-2-receiver-slot-by-being-himself

So Nelson not playing like a white WR (according to his teammates) is a commentary on those who believe the common, and incorrect, frame of reference. Its not that he really is good like a black WR would be, but that other players who expect him to be the stereotypical white possession receiver are in for a rude treatment.

But the give away to the less than serious work that went in to this article is that no one has unearthed any examples of this happening. Not even bulletin board quality dismissals of Nelson's talent.

Also a word about stereotypes being right. Anecdotally, you could confirm any kind of stereotype. The problem is when you reduce that common trait from a percentage of a population down to EVERY single person in that population. That is when a stereotype devolves into a prejudice. And that prejudice is what both original pieces and Jennings and Rodgers are attempting to dismantle.

[channtheman]

Stereotypes are funny because they're (mostly) true. There are always exceptions -- and those you tend to appreciate -- but it is what it is.

This is what's so funny. They only exist, because GENERALLY they are true. Obviously, there will be times where they aren't, but for the most part they are true. I don't see why people get so offended by them.

[sharpe1027]

No, you have completely wrong. The article doesn’t knock down assumptions based on race, it adds credence to them. Reread the article.

Read it twice. It is crystal clear to me that the article is about how Jordy does not match the stereotypes. I can't see how you cans say that I am "completely wrong." I didn't say it was going to "knock down assumptions based on race." Those are your words and your assumptions as to the duty of a sports reporter. Is that really the duty of a sports reporter?


The article is mainly quoting Greg Jennings and bolsters his opinions on racial stereotypes. To the surprise of him, the other Black players in the league and even Black coaches (Joe Whitt, Jr.), Jordy Nelson plays the wide receiver position well as a Caucasian. Don’t let the skin color fool you. Jordy is fast.

Yep.


Jennings officially declares that Jordy Nelson does not play wide receiver like a white guy. He plays at the skill level of a Black. That’s what he is saying. And the article writer says nothing to dismiss either Jennings’ assumptions or his statement. He lets it stand as is.

Yes. The reporter wrote the story based upon quotes of specific players saying how Jordy did not fit the stereotype.


And that’s the point I am making. Supposedly, promoting racial stereotypes is wrong. Period. So why is it highlighted in a sports column and considered acceptable?

Here is where you go off the deep end a bit. The reporter had concrete evidence (several quotes from players and coaches) that players had stereotyped Jordy and were proven wrong. He wrote the facts based upon that. I'd rather have the truth out there than have my head in the sand pretending that this type of stereotyping doesn't exist.

The article provides facts showing that this type of stereotyping exists while acknowledging that it was wrong in this case. While the reporter could have either not written the story at all (head in the sand) or ripped on Jennings, I still disagree with your conclusion that the reporter was "promoting racial stereotypes" by reporting facts that showed how a stereotype was wrong in this case.

[George Cumby]

Club me for thread-drift:

Remember when TT drafted Jordy and during the presser he had a cheshire cat grin? Now, we know why....

[gbgary]

Club me for thread-drift:

Remember when TT drafted Jordy and during the presser he had a cheshire cat grin? Now, we know why....

thanks. this tread needs to drift. wish i'd seen the presser. wonder if it's in the archives. didn't realize he's so much taller than jennings

[Kiwon]

Here is where you go off the deep end a bit. The reporter had concrete evidence (several quotes from players and coaches) that players had stereotyped Jordy and were proven wrong. He wrote the facts based upon that. I'd rather have the truth out there than have my head in the sand pretending that this type of stereotyping doesn't exist.

The article provides facts showing that this type of stereotyping exists while acknowledging that it was wrong in this case. While the reporter could have either not written the story at all (head in the sand) or ripped on Jennings, I still disagree with your conclusion that the reporter was "promoting racial stereotypes" by reporting facts that showed how a stereotype was wrong in this case.

What's interesting is that this article or its content has been covered on ESPN, NFL.com, the NFL Network, Yahoo Sports, Rush Limbaugh, and The Drudge Report, among others. This topic touches on a lot of things that provokes thought and sparks debate.

Sure stereotypes exist. Jordy says being White has helped him excel on the field. A-Rod has commented upon it as well. Jennings says in effect that Jordy plays like a naturally higher-skilled Black player ("A lot of it has to do with the fact that guys look at him say, "Okay, yeah, he's the white guy, he can't be that good." Well, he is that good. It's easy for someone to say, "Oh yeah, he's like one of those other white receivers.' 'He's not. I'm sorry. He's not").

You say the stereotype is wrong "in this case" so does that mean you think that the stereotype that Blacks are more skilled as players is generally true? If so, a lot of people would agree with you. And, apparently, it's okay for us to talk about that on radio, television, and in print without any critical analysis. The journalists are just stenographers reporting what others are saying.

My take is, I see a double standard and I will call it out.

Yes, stereotypes exist, but should they exist, especially ones about race? Jordy being fast for a White guy is kind of lighthearted piece. But what about negative racial stereotypes? Should these be highlighted in the media without being challenged?

Fact: 25% of Black males are in prison, awaiting trial, or on parole. So if I need a new accountant or manager for my up-scale restaurant, would I be correct to not even consider an application from a Black? Should I look at the applicant as an individual or categorize him according to a generally accepted stereotype?

Same thing if I am a bank loan officer or head-hunter for a major company. This type of thinking has real-world implications. In this circumstance with Jennings' comments about Jordy Nelson, we laugh it off. But in another circumstance, if I applied Jennings' words and reasoning then I could be found guilty of a crime and might face fines and the loss of my job.

I don't want the PC-crowd to tell me what to think or feel, but they do anyway, don't they? "Gender Studies, Black Studies, Ethnic Studies, Queer Studies" exist as majors at universities for what reason? To help the rest of us to get our minds right, correct?

Well, I hope that when Jordy runs a post that he burns every Black DB that tries to cover him. I hope he becomes the fastest receiver in the NFL and sets a TD record. He is breaking a racial stereotype held by a lot of folks. But, at the same time, his success doesn't alter the question about if that stereotype based upon race should even exist in the first place?

If it's okay in Sports to operate that way then in what other areas of society can the same standards be applied? If that is “going off the deep end” then I guess I swim in the deep end of the pool.

[Kiwon]

Anyone offended by this is full of shit. That is how the world is and if you say no it is just because you are PCed up and feel the need to lie to yourself.

"Would you step out of the car, sir, with your license and registration? Keep your hands where I can see them. What are you doing in this part of town?"

(Madtown likely answer, "I was banging your wife." :cool:)

[pbmax]

Kiwon, there is a world of difference between a stereotype (most black males are criminals, white WRs are not talented enough) and refusing to look at a racial group for hiring.

Are you suggesting that NFL teams refuse to draft, develop or sign white WRs like someone might refuse to hire a black accountant?

[sharpe1027]

You say the stereotype is wrong "in this case" so does that mean you think that the stereotype that Blacks are more skilled as players is generally true? If so, a lot of people would agree with you.

If by "generally true" you mean are there more black WRs in the NFL? Then yes, the stereotype is true. If by "generally true," you mean that you can determine whether any individual WR is good based upon whether they are black or white, then no, the stereotype fails. That's what a stereotype is and that's why the article does a good job of showing why they should not be relied upon.


And, apparently, it's okay for us to talk about that on radio, television, and in print without any critical analysis. The journalists are just stenographers reporting what others are saying.

Sometimes it is fine, yes. Every article does not needs to cover every single conceivable issue and be concerned about every john doe that gets a bug up their ass about their personal pet peeve.



Yes, stereotypes exist, but should they exist, especially ones about race?

Maybe not. So what?


Jordy being fast for a White guy is kind of lighthearted piece. But what about negative racial stereotypes? Should these be highlighted in the media without being challenged?

"Highlighted?" I would love that rather than putting your head in the sand and pretending we can make a utopian society.


Fact: 25% of Black males are in prison, awaiting trial, or on parole. So if I need a new accountant or manager for my up-scale restaurant, would I be correct to not even consider an application from a Black? Should I look at the applicant as an individual or categorize him according to a generally accepted stereotype?

Same thing if I am a bank loan officer or head-hunter for a major company. This type of thinking has real-world implications.

No.


In this circumstance with Jennings' comments about Jordy Nelson, we laugh it off. But in another circumstance, if I applied Jennings' words and reasoning then I could be found guilty of a crime and might face fines and the loss of my job.

It is not another circumstance.


I don't want the PC-crowd to tell me what to think or feel, but they do anyway, don't they? "Gender Studies, Black Studies, Ethnic Studies, Queer Studies" exist as majors at universities for what reason? To help the rest of us to get our minds right, correct?

Well, I hope that when Jordy runs a post that he burns every Black DB that tries to cover him. I hope he becomes the fastest receiver in the NFL and sets a TD record. He is breaking a racial stereotype held by a lot of folks. But, at the same time, his success doesn't alter the question about if that stereotype based upon race should even exist in the first place?

If it's okay in Sports to operate that way then in what other areas of society can the same standards be applied? If that is “going off the deep end” then I guess I swim in the deep end of the pool.

Apples and Oranges.

[MadtownPacker]

:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQxDA6Z3cMo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[gbgary]

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Rodgers-frustrated-with-performance/3706cfc9-de97-44e3-abe9-a6bb8890b885#?id=6552fd90-65d1-47e9-a64f-01c0086282bb

i take it back. he's aight!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like it.


It looks now like Packers general manager Ted Thompson got a steal when in early October he signed Nelson to a contract extension through the 2014 season that will pay him $13.35 million.

When asked on Sunday whether he wish he would have waited to do his deal, Nelson said simply: “Nope.”

[RashanGary]

Nelson is a hell of a player. He has the same yards and more TDs than Jennings so far this year. He's been our #1 weapon the last month or so and really, depending on if you like 20 yards or 2 TD's more (Nelson has 2 TDs more, Jennings has 20 yards) you could say he's our #1 WR in production.

And oddly, every year for how many years, the #1 WR (Sharpe, Brooks for a short time, Freeman, Driver, Jennings) the guy who's been the best player has had the best year. Maybe Nelson is benefiting from a lot of single coverage, but he's earning his status as top 10 WR.

In the best offenses, there is a premium put on chemistry. Look at Welker and Gronkowski. Neither more physically talented than Finley or James Jones. Both stars because they understand defenses and are on the same page with a great QB.

[Kiwon]

That was another great game by Jordy on Sunday. Stereotype him anyway you want. The guy can play. He'd be a #1 on about any other team and his new 3-year / $13 million contract is looking better and better. Barring injury, he and A-Rod should be responsible for 40+ touchdowns. Good guy, good signing. Go Pack!

[Pugger]

Nelson is our #3 in name only.

[gbgary]

Nelson is our #3 in name only.

jennings called him the #2.

[Pugger]

On MNF when they showed pictures of the "starters" DD was shown as the other starter opposite Jennings.

[HarveyWallbangers]

jennings called him the #2.

Jennings also called Driver our #1 after the Super Bowl.

[Brandon494]

Jordy Nelson is having a hell of a season don't get me wrong but top 10 reciever in the league? Come on man, dude might be the #1 reciever on 2-3 teams in the league.

[sharpe1027]

Jordy is 15th in total yards, 20th in yards per game, 44th in total receptions and 3rd in total TDs. A good year so far, but I agree he's not a top ten WR by any stretch of the imagination.

[vince]

I think questioning whether this guy is as good as or better than that guy in the league is misguided thinking, or at least attempting to oversimplify something that is not that simple. The players are on different teams in different offenses with different opportunities and are asked to do different things at different times in the evolution of the other players on their team.

The reality is that Jordy Nelson is as good as he is right now because he's worked with Rodgers in this this offense for as long as he has. It's about understanding what the coaches and Rodgers want from him and being on the same page making adjustments. Nelson is better now in this offense than most every other receiver would be in this offense now - regardless of his relative talent level - because he has years of experience in working on the nuances of being effective at what they're trying to do.

Same with Starks. Who cares whether he's the 10th or 25th most talented back in the league? The important question is how effective is he in this offense with this team at this time with the opportunities he has and what they're asking him to do relative to the other players on this team - not someone else's. It's far more about execution, and talent isn't the strongest determinant of that at any point in time. The question of whether Deangelo Williams has more or less talent is irrelevant to the question of whether James Starks is as effective as he can be and needs to be given his opportunities and how he fits with what they're trying to accomplish in this offense.

[sharpe1027]

Good point Vince, but what will we talk about if we can't discuss whether player A is better than player B? ;)

[Kiwon]

Jordy is 15th in total yards, 20th in yards per game, 44th in total receptions and 3rd in total TDs. A good year so far, but I agree he's not a top ten WR by any stretch of the imagination.

The stats don't tell the whole story given that the Packers have so many weapons. A-Rod spreads the wealth around very nicely.

There's a bunch of teams barely above .500 and below where Nelson would be the featured receiver. His speed is his best asset and that's what separates him from the White receivers that play "Black" :roll: or the Black receivers that play "White" :roll: Jordy's one of the top shelf bro'ddhas

[SkinBasket]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-nelson-catches-everyones-attention-or34ivq-134220543.html

Good to see his teammates are reinforcing the Nelson racism. The only examples his black teammates can compare him to are other white guys? Ricky Proehl? Ed McCaffrey?

That's like saying Cam Newton reminds me of an intellectually retarded Warren Moon. That's the problem with black people. They're all so damn racist.

[sharpe1027]

The stats don't tell the whole story given that the Packers have so many weapons. A-Rod spreads the wealth around very nicely.

There's a bunch of teams barely above .500 and below where Nelson would be the featured receiver. His speed is his best asset and that's what separates him from the White receivers that play "Black" :roll: or the Black receivers that play "White" :roll: Jordy's one of the top shelf bro'ddhas

No they do not, but they are somewhere to begin the argument. It is tough to argue that a WR is top ten when their stats are more like top 25. You need quite a bit of opinion-based argument to make up the gap.. Jordy is also benefiting from being on the best passing offense in the NFL, the best QB and two other threats that usually draw more attention then he does. Even if he was the #1 WR on those teams, which is a bit of an assumption, that would not automatically make him a top 10 WR.

[mraynrand]

It's the same way in the NBA where John Stockton and Steve Nash were always referred to as "the next Leo “Ace” Gottlieb."

[Brandon494]

Lmao coming from the guy who tried to compare Kuhn to Peyton Hillis last season. Not to mention some other fans who tried to compare Kuhn to John Riggins and Cam to Russell. Ed McCaffrey is actually a pretty good comparison IMO.

[mraynrand]

^ coming from the guy who tried to compare Kuhn to Peyton Hillis last season lmao. Not to mention some other fans who tried to compare Kuhn to John Riggins and Cam to Russell. Ed McCaffrey is actually a pretty good comparison IMO.

I trust you're referring to The Skinbasket. I recall comparing Kuhn and Hillis last year. I believe I said Kuhn is nowhere near the runner the Hillis is. Turns out that Kuhn may also not be the total jerk that Hillis is either, if reports from the Cleveland lockerroom are to be believed.

[Pugger]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/other_nfl/view.bg?articleid=1382673&srvc=sports&position=recent

[Guiness]

Originally Posted by gbgary http://packerrats.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?p=634360#post634360)
jennings called him the #2.



Jennings also called Driver our #1 after the Super Bowl.

So...Driver's #1, Jordy's #2. That makes Jennings out #3? lol, methinks he's trying to draw the nickel back in coverage! Smart guy!

[Guiness]

Lmao coming from the guy who tried to compare Kuhn to Peyton Hillis last season. Not to mention some other fans who tried to compare Kuhn to John Riggins and Cam to Russell. Ed McCaffrey is actually a pretty good comparison IMO.

I don't know who I'd compare him to. McCaffrey always seemed to me to be a guy who was strong, and overpowered DB's - like David Boston? That's not Jordy.

Jordy has great long speed and stretches the field on seam, post and go routes. Sure hands, and can beat the first defender after he's got the ball. Does he go over the middle at all? I don't remember many of those catches. I also don't remember him catching many jump balls over DB's, he usually gets his catches by getting a step and turning on the speed, catching the ball in stride. Maybe I'm forgetting some catches?

Not sure who that describes. Isaac Bruce?

[SkinBasket]

Lmao coming from the guy who tried to compare Kuhn to Peyton Hillis last season. Not to mention some other fans who tried to compare Kuhn to John Riggins and Cam to Russell. Ed McCaffrey is actually a pretty good comparison IMO.


I trust you're referring to The Skinbasket. I recall comparing Kuhn and Hillis last year. I believe I said Kuhn is nowhere near the runner the Hillis is. Turns out that Kuhn may also not be the total jerk that Hillis is either, if reports from the Cleveland lockerroom are to be believed.

I'm not sure who he's talking about. His racism makes his memory soft. For anyone who's interested in how Cam and Russell have done in their first full seasons of play:


CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
198 368 53.8 2,423 6.58 13 84 8 11 77.1
219 365 60.0 2,885 7.90 12 77 14 3 80.0

Not really all that different. Here's to hoping Cam can show more restraint at the KFC in the off-season than JaMarcus did.

[Guiness]

I'm not sure who he's talking about. His racism makes his memory soft. For anyone who's interested in how Cam and Russell have done in their first full seasons of play:


CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
198 368 53.8 2,423 6.58 13 84 8 11 77.1
219 365 60.0 2,885 7.90 12 77 14 3 80.0

Not really all that different. Here's to hoping Cam can show more restraint at the KFC in the off-season than JaMarcus did.

Wow, 11 fumbles? Just checked, and he got sacked 31 times. Enough, but not excessive.

[SkinBasket]

Wow, 11 fumbles? Just checked, and he got sacked 31 times. Enough, but not excessive.

It was those fat sausage fingers filled with gravy and orange drink.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-nelson-catches-everyones-attention-or34ivq-134220543.html

Good to see his teammates are reinforcing the Nelson racism. The only examples his black teammates can compare him to are other white guys? Ricky Proehl? Ed McCaffrey?

That's like saying Cam Newton reminds me of an intellectually retarded Warren Moon. That's the problem with black people. They're all so damn racist.

Rodgers did the same thing in the radio interview, then sort of regained his footing by saying he was faster and more athletic than those guys. Someone should just compare him to Anquan Boldin or David Boston and get over the hump.

[pbmax]

Boston is/was 6' 2" and 228.
Boldin is 6' 1/2" and 223 and ran a 4.7 before the draft.
Nelson is 6' 3" and 217 and ran 4.37 or 4.4 depending on who you reference.

So he is taller and faster than those two, but probably not as stout.

[pbmax]

I'm not sure who he's talking about. His racism makes his memory soft. For anyone who's interested in how Cam and Russell have done in their first full seasons of play:


CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
198 368 53.8 2,423 6.58 13 84 8 11 77.1
219 365 60.0 2,885 7.90 12 77 14 3 80.0

Not really all that different. Here's to hoping Cam can show more restraint at the KFC in the off-season than JaMarcus did.

INTs are killing Newton there. Otherwise his rating would be far better as he leads in all other categories. I think Newton is a level ahead of Russell, though I remember little of Russell from his rookie year. If he progresses (and I think he will) those INTs will drop with experience and a better #2 WR. Or a running game.

[Guiness]

Rodgers did the same thing in the radio interview, then sort of regained his footing by saying he was faster and more athletic than those guys. Someone should just compare him to Anquan Boldin or David Boston and get over the hump.

Really? I thought he was faster and not as physical as either of those guys. Seems like everything he catches lately is down the sidelines and goes for a ridiculous number of yards.
His catches were for 34, 6, 26, 12, 5 (TD), 40. Not counting the TD, that's over a 20yd average/catch.

[pbmax]

Really? I thought he was faster and not as physical as either of those guys. Seems like everything he catches lately is down the sidelines and goes for a ridiculous number of yards.
His catches were for 34, 6, 26, 12, 5 (TD), 40. Not counting the TD, that's over a 20yd average/catch.

I looked up some numbers (above) and you are right, its not the best comparison. Boldin not as tall. Not sure about Boston's speed, though in his one big year he average 15+ yds per catch.

[Upnorth]

I liked the Issace bruce comparison for the simple reason that Bruce had an amazing career. I hope Jordy's is better.

[pbmax]

I liked the Issace bruce comparison for the simple reason that Bruce had an amazing career. I hope Jordy's is better.

Bruce was 6 foot and less than 200. He was more like Jennings or Brooks, though taller. Nothing to do with skin tone though! :lol:

[mraynrand]

Actually, Jordy reminds me of Lofton. Fast, strong, long-strider. Bout the same height and a little heavier. Runs more fly and sideline patterns than across the middle, but runs them all. Big play guy.

[Guiness]

Actually, Jordy reminds me of Lofton. Fast, strong, long-strider. Bout the same height and a little heavier. Runs more fly and sideline patterns than across the middle, but runs them all. Big play guy.

Lofton, I like that comparison. Lofton was smaller, but all NFL players are bigger than those of 20 years ago.

[denverYooper]

Boston is/was 6' 2" and 228.
Boldin is 6' 1/2" and 223 and ran a 4.7 before the draft.
Nelson is 6' 3" and 217 and ran 4.37 or 4.4 depending on who you reference.

So he is taller and faster than those two, but probably not as stout.

Javon Walker is 6'3" 215

[sharpe1027]

Javon Walker is 6'3" 215

Not a bad comparison. Both provided deep threats with the ability to go over the top of DBs to get the jump ball, but neither did much as a possession receiver. Jordy is probably a bit more physical running with the ball and Walker had more shift running with the ball.

[Brandon494]

I'm not sure who he's talking about. His racism makes his memory soft. For anyone who's interested in how Cam and Russell have done in their first full seasons of play:


CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
198 368 53.8 2,423 6.58 13 84 8 11 77.1
219 365 60.0 2,885 7.90 12 77 14 3 80.0

Not really all that different. Here's to hoping Cam can show more restraint at the KFC in the off-season than JaMarcus did.

Wow thats weak!

First of all you put in Russell's stats from his 2nd season, not his rookie year.

Second Russell played 6 more games

Third you failed to give Cam's rushing stats

and most importantly trying to compare their stats to how they are similar is as weak as me comparing Ryan Grant's stats from the 09 season to Adrian Peterson's stats. In both cases neither player are even close to being the same player.

[MadtownPacker]

So have we decided if Jordy is fast for being White or he is just fast in general?

Funny whoever said the Issac Bruce comparison. That's what these big TD plays remind me of. The scoring is happening like it aint shit. Yesterdays game was what seemed like a crappy one yet the O still dropped 30+.

[Brandon494]

BTW Jordy reminds me of Miles Austin

[Joemailman]

So have we decided if Jordy is fast for being White or he is just fast in general?

Funny whoever said the Issac Bruce comparison. That's what these big TD plays remind me of. The scoring is happening like it aint shit. Yesterdays game was what seemed like a crappy one yet the O still dropped 30+.

Jordy's 40 time at the combine (4.49) was almost as good as Jennings (4.46) 2 years earlier. I think Jennings can get up to full speed more quickly, but Jordy has a top speed as least as fast as Jennings.

[mission]

I know just about everyone's seen this, but damn, it doesn't get old. Seems like a perfect place for it.

Jordy smoking Talib in college:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo

[mraynrand]

BTW Jordy reminds me of Miles Austin

That's a pretty good fit. Austin doesn't play as strong as Nelson though.

[Brandon494]

I know just about everyone's seen this, but damn, it doesn't get old. Seems like a perfect place for it.

Jordy smoking Talib in college:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo

Thats crazy that Nelson, Talib, and Josh Freeman all played in the game yesterday, some talented players right there.

[pbmax]

Javon Walker is 6'3" 215

That's a nice call. I recall Walker as more of a go up and get it guy (warning: stereotype) rather than speed, but they ran similar patterns. Maybe if we cross Lofton and Walker in a purely theoretical sense.

[pbmax]

Jordy's 40 time at the combine (4.49) was almost as good as Jennings (4.46) 2 years earlier. I think Jennings can get up to full speed more quickly, but Jordy has a top speed as least as fast as Jennings.

Are you telling me I can't trust wikipedia's 40 yard times?

Dammit.

[Kiwon]

(Just to stir the pot a little)

Now I see why Blacks make better NFL players than Whites. Them people move wicked fast..... Lots of potential wide receivers in this particular group. :-)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMjs_5Fp0nc&feature=player_embedded

[George Cumby]

I know just about everyone's seen this, but damn, it doesn't get old. Seems like a perfect place for it.

Jordy smoking Talib in college:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo

That gear he shows after the catch is just amazing. Talib just has NO chance.

[Brandon494]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL1ss4GQC4c&feature=channel_video_title

[Kiwon]

Com'on. You can insult Asians better than that, Brandon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnwUJ-wG9NQ

[Harlan Huckleby]

BTW Jordy reminds me of Miles Austin

good comparison, both have great body control

you could see JN's talent right away. he's gotten stronger since rookie year, he plays big. fun player to watch.

[SkinBasket]

Wow thats weak!

First of all you put in Russell's stats from his 2nd season, not his rookie year.

Second Russell played 6 more games

Third you failed to give Cam's rushing stats

and most importantly trying to compare their stats to how they are similar is as weak as me comparing Ryan Grant's stats from the 09 season to Adrian Peterson's stats. In both cases neither player are even close to being the same player.

First, I said it was from his first full season. Second, we all realize Russell played more games. Well those of us who realize the season isn't over yet. But unless you have Cam's stats for the next six games, then maybe you should just settle down or get to the back of the bus or whatever. The stat lines do compare nicely to anyone who doesn't want to have Cam's butt baby though due to the similar number of attempts. I even let Cam have the extra 20 without comment. Third, I'm comparing them as quarterbacks, not running backs. Cam has more yards and more touchdowns in part because of what's expected of him as well, while Russell had a better average per run, which might indicate he was the better athlete.

I'm not comparing players doofus, I'm comparing results. And the most striking similarity lies there: in the number of wins. Scoreboard!

[Brandon494]

First, I said it was from his first full season. Second, we all realize Russell played more games. Well those of us who realize the season isn't over yet.

You said it was from their first full season when Cam still has nearly half the season left to be played. I do realize Russell played more games which proves my point that it was a weak comparison.


I'm not comparing players doofus, I'm comparing results. And the most striking similarity lies there: in the number of wins. Scoreboard!

So I guess Alex Smith is just as good as Aaron Rodgers huh? I mean its not like its a team sport or anything.


Third, I'm comparing them as quarterbacks, not running backs. Cam has more yards and more touchdowns in part because of what's expected of him as well, while Russell had a better average per run, which might indicate he was the better athlete.

If a QB can run that's part of his game, prime example Aaron Rodgers. Cam Newton is third in the NFL in rushing TD whether you want to give him credit for it or not.

[Upnorth]

So just in keeping with the original theme here is a link

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/5_4724_BREAKING_NEWS%3A_Jordy_Nelson_is_white%21.h tml

Since its all about race, right???

[SkinBasket]

You said it was from their first full season when Cam still has nearly half the season left to be played. I do realize Russell played more games which proves my point that it was a weak comparison.

The numbers are COMPARABLE exactly because the number of attempts is roughly the same.


So I guess Alex Smith is just as good as Aaron Rodgers huh? I mean its not like its a team sport or anything.

You could say that, if their numbers are similar, as Russell's and Cam's are, to complete your misguided equivocation...


GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
10 238 329 72.3 3,168 9.63 31 93 4 2 128.8
10 171 274 62.4 1,976 7.21 13 44 4 4 93.9

Hmmm... not quite so similar. It would appear the other half of your comparison fails. That IS a surprise. 3200 is significantly more than 1950 and 31 is a lot more than 13, even though they use the same numbers. Math, it's FUNdamental.


If a QB can run that's part of his game, prime example Aaron Rodgers. Cam Newton is third in the NFL in rushing TD whether you want to give him credit for it or not.

Good for him. It doesn't make him any better at throwing a football.

Lets try to match their stats running however to test your theory about running. If Oakland had Russell run the ball as much as Carolina does Newton, he would have had 577 yards to Cam's 411. 4.5 touchdowns to Cam's 9. And about 50 first downs to Cam's 29. Based of the statistic over the same period of time as those above. Sooo... yeah, as of right now, Cam's not that much better than JaMarcus was, outside of your fanboy excitement over him. Cam does have 6 more games to try to match Russell's 3 wins over that period. based on their season thus far, I'm guessing he ends with 3 wins. Maybe 4 if their defense can make up for his lack of leadership, accuracy, and his propensity for throwing the football to the wrong team.

[Brandon494]

Lmao do you even watch football? Russell was no where near the runner Cam is. Cam is A LOT more accurate, and Oakland had a pretty good defense that year where as the Panthers are dead near last in the league but you keep going off "made up" stats. How the hell does someone score 4.5 TDs? Lmao. Fanboy my ass, you cant just admit you were wrong about Newton and have to make this sorry argument to try to prove your point. FAIL! Any GM in the league would laugh in your face if you ever tried to make this argument to them. BTW stats are so overrated, try watching some games instead of googling for your information.

[Upnorth]

I love this forum, A driver thread turns into another Finley discussion, a Nelson forum turns into a Cam Newton vrs Jamarcuss Russel. That is impressive.
So which are better, smurfs or thunder cats?

[mraynrand]

So which are better, smurfs or thunder cats?

Did you really want to start a fight, or is this just a rhetorical?

[Zool]

I love this forum, A driver thread turns into another Finley discussion, a Nelson forum turns into a Cam Newton vrs Jamarcuss Russel. That is impressive.
So which are better, smurfs or thunder cats?

You can smurf the Smurfs right in their tight little blue smurfholes. Thundercats HOOOOOOOOO

[Upnorth]

You can smurf the Smurfs right in their tight little blue smurfholes. Thundercats HOOOOOOOOO

You were just hot and bothered by Chetara.

[Upnorth]

Did you really want to start a fight, or is this just a rhetorical?

How is it those little blue skid marks get a movie and Thundercats dont?

[SkinBasket]

Lmao do you even watch football?

Yes.


Russell was no where near the runner Cam is.

Okay, maybe you think he's the prettier runner, but the results are the same. Well, actually, I take that back. Jamarcus gained more yards per attempt, so you could easily say he's the better runner. You know, if you go by real results, and not some guy's impression from watching Sportscenter highlights.


Cam is A LOT more accurate

Well, 7% more accurate anyway, although he's been trending in the 50s the past few games. He's also more accurate in throwing it to the other team by a margin of 14 to 8.


Oakland had a pretty good defense that year where as the Panthers are dead near last in the league

I thought Cam newton played offense.


but you keep going off "made up" stats. How the hell does someone score 4.5 TDs? Lmao.

It's called math. Funny, a guy who wants to ignore stats in favor of watching highlights, then make proclamations in direct opposition to the statistics would call extrapolated numbers "made up." I think I'll take math over a fanboy's tainted impressions to decide how accurate or how effective a runner a player is. Since those are results. Real numbers. Sta-tist-ics. I know it's not as fun as yelling, "Boo-yah!" or "Boom-shakalaka!" every time Cam does a spin move, but it's really more indicative of a player, and a team's, success. By success, I mean winning football games, not scoring sponsorships or killing dogs for fun.


Fanboy my ass, you cant just admit you were wrong about Newton and have to make this sorry argument to try to prove your point.

I don't have to "prove a point." The numbers speak for themselves. Results. Not how cool the player looked getting those results or how nice his smile is. Cam may look more graceful running, but that doesn't make a yard worth any more than a yard run by the fat black quarterback.


BTW stats are so overrated, try watching some games instead of googling for your information.

Yes, I'll definitely base all my impressions of players and their success off subjective fan accounts that have no factual basis. Because statistics are stupid.

[SkinBasket]

How is it those little blue skid marks get a movie and Thundercats dont?

They have a new, updated series. I'm sure a movie will follow. Thundercats roll.

[mraynrand]

How is it those little blue skid marks get a movie and Thundercats dont?


Did anyone over the age of 4 and their unfortunate grandparents even see that movie? I'm reminded of the time in 1994 that an acquaintance of mine was all excited over his first 'new' car. Turned out to be a used 1982 Reliant K. I asked him if I was named on his life insurance policy.

[Upnorth]

Did anyone over the age of 4 and their unfortunate grandparents even see that movie? I'm reminded of the time in 1994 that an acquaintance of mine was all excited over his first 'new' car. Turned out to be a used 1982 Reliant K. I asked him if I was named on his life insurance policy.

K cars were awesome to destroy things in! Also I have not had the mispleasure of seeing the Smurfs movie, but after seeing a trailer I offically feel sorry for Doogie Howser MD.

Jordy Nelson sure can catch a football eh?

[swede]

Bigger POS: Dodge Reliant K or AMC Pacer?

The Pacer gets points for looking out-of-the-ordinary horrible, but the Reliant K's were known to rust off a bumper before the oil could get changed for the first time.

[Guiness]

Bigger POS: Dodge Reliant K or AMC Pacer?

The Pacer gets points for looking out-of-the-ordinary horrible, but the Reliant K's were known to rust off a bumper before the oil could get changed for the first time.

Hyundai Pony, and a movie about G-Force. Not the hamsters, these guys!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hC5TAf87deI/TG1JDSeC5TI/AAAAAAAAED4/lWwJy-w8-oM/s400/G-Force_-_group_shot2.jpg

I win!

[Upnorth]

Hyundai Pony, and a movie about G-Force. Not the hamsters, these guys!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hC5TAf87deI/TG1JDSeC5TI/AAAAAAAAED4/lWwJy-w8-oM/s400/G-Force_-_group_shot2.jpg

I win!

They are making a G-Force movie??? I used to run of the school bus to catch the last 10 minutes of that show when I was little.

God i live football.

[Smeefers]

Smurfs and Thundercat's can both eat it. Voltron is where it's at.

Aww heck, who am I kidding, my mom probably still has my smurfs, thundercats and voltron toys.

[Guiness]

They are making a G-Force movie??? I used to run of the school bus to catch the last 10 minutes of that show when I was little.

God i live football.

There's some pretty cool lore about the NA version of that show.

The original series was quite violent, and the cable networks didn't think it would get past the censors. Remember 7 Zark 7, the R2-D2 robot? He was not in the original series, they added him in to fill the gaps created by cutting out the battle scenes!

Zoltar was some sort of being that was both male and female, and could change sexes at will. That also, did not make it on to TV here!

There is indeed a CGI movie version of this in the works.

[Kiwon]

I'm waiting for you kids to start a fierce debate next over Barney vs. Sesame Street.

[mraynrand]

G-force was stolen by some stupid promo crew at Lambeau Field. Dumbest thing ever.

http://mypackerssearch.swagbucks.com/content/uploads/prizes-2/image2627.jpg

^^^^lame

[mission]

Bigger POS: Dodge Reliant K or AMC Pacer?

The Pacer gets points for looking out-of-the-ordinary horrible, but the Reliant K's were known to rust off a bumper before the oil could get changed for the first time.

Or Renault Encore. I got one for free in high school with no reverse... used to have to push it out of parking stalls. Was hilarious filling it up (hatchback) with 6-7 guys from the football team and driving around town honking.

[pbmax]

The numbers are COMPARABLE exactly because the number of attempts is roughly the same.



You could say that, if their numbers are similar, as Russell's and Cam's are, to complete your misguided equivocation...


GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
10 238 329 72.3 3,168 9.63 31 93 4 2 128.8
10 171 274 62.4 1,976 7.21 13 44 4 4 93.9

Hmmm... not quite so similar. It would appear the other half of your comparison fails. That IS a surprise. 3200 is significantly more than 1950 and 31 is a lot more than 13, even though they use the same numbers. Math, it's FUNdamental.



Good for him. It doesn't make him any better at throwing a football.

Lets try to match their stats running however to test your theory about running. If Oakland had Russell run the ball as much as Carolina does Newton, he would have had 577 yards to Cam's 411. 4.5 touchdowns to Cam's 9. And about 50 first downs to Cam's 29. Based of the statistic over the same period of time as those above. Sooo... yeah, as of right now, Cam's not that much better than JaMarcus was, outside of your fanboy excitement over him. Cam does have 6 more games to try to match Russell's 3 wins over that period. based on their season thus far, I'm guessing he ends with 3 wins. Maybe 4 if their defense can make up for his lack of leadership, accuracy, and his propensity for throwing the football to the wrong team.

I was going got argue that Russell got two training camps so the number of attempts was a bad basis to call it an even comparison. But I remember that Genius held out most of camp, so they are closer in experience that might appear at first glance.

But those numbers still say Newton is far superior. INTs are the only thing holding him back. Well, beside the rest of his team, that is.

[pbmax]

Smurfs and Thundercat's can both eat it. Voltron is where it's at.

Aww heck, who am I kidding, my mom probably still has my smurfs, thundercats and voltron toys.

Voltron represent.

Would also accept endorsement of Star Blazers.

[pbmax]

Pacers make excellent terrariums or planters in your front yard with all the window space.

[Brandon494]

But those numbers still say Newton is far superior. INTs are the only thing holding him back. Well, beside the rest of his team, that is.

You don't need stats to know Newton is far superior, even Ray Charles can see that.

[pbmax]

You don't need stats to know Newton is far superior, even Ray Charles can see that.

Yes, but. Rich Mirer looked better on TV than Bledsoe in his first year (not making a direct comparison to Cam/JaMarcus). The numbers do show Newton's passing talent has survived the transition to the NFL in better shape than Russell's, though, to be fair Russell did not have a Steve Smith.

The important part, so that he stays better than Russell or Mirer, is to fix INTs and just improve overall. From his public impression, he seems willing to do the work. I expect he will succeed, Rivera seems to have hired decent O coaches on his staff.

[Guiness]

Voltron represent.

Would also accept endorsement of Star Blazers.

Voltron? You mean that series where the guy in the red suit had the black dog, the guy in the black suit had the blue dog and the guy in the blue suit got the red dog? And then halfway through the series all the dogs disappeared! Phshaw!

[MJZiggy]

Bigger POS: Dodge Reliant K or AMC Pacer?

The Pacer gets points for looking out-of-the-ordinary horrible, but the Reliant K's were known to rust off a bumper before the oil could get changed for the first time.

The Thing. Was that Renault?

[Brandon494]

Yes, but. Rich Mirer looked better on TV than Bledsoe in his first year (not making a direct comparison to Cam/JaMarcus). The numbers do show Newton's passing talent has survived the transition to the NFL in better shape than Russell's, though, to be fair Russell did not have a Steve Smith.

The important part, so that he stays better than Russell or Mirer, is to fix INTs and just improve overall. From his public impression, he seems willing to do the work. I expect he will succeed, Rivera seems to have hired decent O coaches on his staff.

I've never watched Bledsoe or Mirer early in their careers so I don't really know much them but what I do know is that the type of throws that Cam's making Russell never made in Oakland. Stats also don't show the leadership and work ethic that Cam has. Everyone knows Russell was a fat lazy piece of shit that didn't put in the time, Cam is the complete opposite. Anyone can skew stats to make a point but there is a reason every NFL expert is so high on Cam Newton.

[mraynrand]

Voltron represent.

Would also accept endorsement of Star Blazers.


Krypt and Lysis are going to shoot you with a wave motion gun.

[Brandon494]

Too bad X-Men shits on all those shows.

[mraynrand]

Too bad X-Men shits on all those shows.

Apples and Oranges. X-men is edgy awesomeness. That old school Japanimation is just hokey/camp.

[SkinBasket]

I was going got argue that Russell got two training camps so the number of attempts was a bad basis to call it an even comparison. But I remember that Genius held out most of camp, so they are closer in experience that might appear at first glance.

But those numbers still say Newton is far superior. INTs are the only thing holding him back. Well, beside the rest of his team, that is.

What exactly makes you say "FAR superior?" Because I see some pretty comparable results. Again, you can argue style and personality all you want, but their results have been pretty similar, and I would argue that results are what this league is about. Thus: Jordy Nelson, who many here were unwilling to place above James Jones neigh a year ago.

[Brandon494]

Maybe because Nelson has stepped up his game this season, some want to forget how Nelson had issues with dropping passes also including 3 in the Super Bowl.

[MadtownPacker]

Maybe because Nelson has stepped up his game this season, some want to forget how Nelson had issues with dropping passes also including 3 in the Super Bowl.
Good thing he made up for it with his 9 catches go for a buck 40 with a TD.

[Brandon494]

Good thing he made up for it with his 9 catches go for a buck 40 with a TD.

I know right, those balls that Rodgers delivered right on the number all game long had to be hard to catch.

[MadtownPacker]

I know right, those balls that Rodgers delivered right on the number all game long had to be hard to catch.
Youre starting to act like a Black Skinbasket.

BTW I love the sig. Had me busting up. :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good thing he made up for it with his 9 catches go for a buck 40 with a TD.

The drops were a one year thing. He had very good hands before that. He's back to his sure-handed ways. Different story for the guy some thought had more upside than Jordy.

[pbmax]

What exactly makes you say "FAR superior?" Because I see some pretty comparable results. Again, you can argue style and personality all you want, but their results have been pretty similar, and I would argue that results are what this league is about. Thus: Jordy Nelson, who many here were unwilling to place above James Jones neigh a year ago.

In several categories Newton has a not insignificant lead (completion percentage, yards and yards per attempt), and he is within 1 TD of Russell, especially impressive given that he has 6 less games. And I think a 7% edge in completion percentage might be the most important, perhaps along with yards per attempt, which is related. His numbers and rating suffer from far too many interceptions. There is also the fact (and yes, I know you did not argue otherwise) that Russell just seemed to get worse as he went on. Given the attempts and the number of games, Newton is being asked to do more for Carolina and is mostly delivering (including INTs).

Given what Newton accomplished with a short training camp (including no OTAs or minicamps-something Russell would have had twice), I think Newton is ahead of Russell's curve. And I think his reported work ethic (the reverse of Russell apparently) argues that he will improve in INTs, especially as his offense improves. Unlike Russell, Newton was a full time starter for a single year in college. That fact actually is a predictor of failure in college QBs overall, but given his early success, it might work to his advantage as there are probably many things to improve on.

There is definitely a visual factor here, and it has nothing to do with his skin color or style. He looks more like an NFL QB than I expected. In fact, the only thing keeping me from being more emphatic is that my original estimation of him was so far off that I am not sure I haven't swung too far to the other extreme. He looks precisely like an NFL caliber QB should. He can move and throw and his arm allows him to reach any route. The game doesn't seem too big for him and he looks close to what he was in college, which is impressive, since the offenses were different. There is little nervousness with him in the pocket.

I was just flat impressed with his game against the Packers. Compared to Ponder, he is much closer to being a threat. As we know from Rodgers first year as a starter and the continued inability of the Packers to win a close game, the team can sometimes betray the QB. With work, I think he will be frightening to play against.

[pbmax]

Apples and Oranges. X-men is edgy awesomeness. That old school Japanimation is just hokey/camp.

Quite right, though I never thought I would be rooting for a Japanese battleship.

[George Cumby]

Quite right, though I never thought I would be rooting for a Japanese battleship.

The battleship. Right.

http://www.starblazers.com/images/gallery_images/maingallery46.JPG

[Cheesehead Craig]

They have a new, updated series. I'm sure a movie will follow. Thundercats roll.

Thundercats kick ass!

[Upnorth]

Thundercats kick ass!

So long as it does not turn out like the epic scatstorm Transformers series!

So staying on topic, the thing that most impresses me about Newton is his YPA. It is high for rookies and that (coupled with his completion %) tells me he will be a very good to great QB in this league. Keeping that in mind I still see Dalton as having a better rookie campaign (so far) due to way to many turnovers by Newton.

Also staying on topic, Finley is a valuable asset to this team and I love seeing him on the feild. He is a great target, but some of his recent drops look like he is either trying to make a move before securing the ball or is worried about the big hit. The first can be coached up, the second is worrying.

Finally staying on topic, Cobb looks like he will be an amazing player when he keeps concentration. He is a fearless returner and a dedicated runner when in possesion of the ball. Great pickup by TT. He will make saying good bye to 80 at some point a little easier to bear.

That is all.

P.S. That Nelson guy, hes white, who woulda thunk it.

[gbgary]

So long as it does not turn out like the epic scatstorm Transformers series!

So staying on topic, the thing that most impresses me about Newton is his YPA. It is high for rookies and that (coupled with his completion %) tells me he will be a very good to great QB in this league. Keeping that in mind I still see Dalton as having a better rookie campaign (so far) due to way to many turnovers by Newton.

Also staying on topic, Finley is a valuable asset to this team and I love seeing him on the feild. He is a great target, but some of his recent drops look like he is either trying to make a move before securing the ball or is worried about the big hit. The first can be coached up, the second is worrying.

Finally staying on topic, Cobb looks like he will be an amazing player when he keeps concentration. He is a fearless returner and a dedicated runner when in possesion of the ball. Great pickup by TT. He will make saying good bye to 80 at some point a little easier to bear.

That is all.

P.S. That Nelson guy, hes white, who woulda thunk it.

you forgot about donald driver and thanksgiving football watching plans.

[denverYooper]

So long as it does not turn out like the epic scatstorm Transformers series!

So staying on topic, the thing that most impresses me about Newton is his YPA. It is high for rookies and that (coupled with his completion %) tells me he will be a very good to great QB in this league. Keeping that in mind I still see Dalton as having a better rookie campaign (so far) due to way to many turnovers by Newton.

Also staying on topic, Finley is a valuable asset to this team and I love seeing him on the feild. He is a great target, but some of his recent drops look like he is either trying to make a move before securing the ball or is worried about the big hit. The first can be coached up, the second is worrying.

Finally staying on topic, Cobb looks like he will be an amazing player when he keeps concentration. He is a fearless returner and a dedicated runner when in possesion of the ball. Great pickup by TT. He will make saying good bye to 80 at some point a little easier to bear.

That is all.

P.S. That Nelson guy, hes white, who woulda thunk it.

The concentration thing only seems to happen on KR/PR. I don't recall him looking upfield so much when catching passes.

He'll get it sorted though, I have little doubt of that.

[mraynrand]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hC5TAf87deI/TG1JDSeC5TI/AAAAAAAAED4/lWwJy-w8-oM/s400/G-Force_-_group_shot2.jpg

I never really understood how Trixie was allowed into G-force. Was it because she could fly a helicopter and saved Speedracer's ass all the time?

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/17/SpeedRacer7.jpghttp://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/23447/trixie.jpg

BTW, Racer X is secretly Speed's brother.

[mraynrand]

The battleship. Right.

http://www.starblazers.com/images/gallery_images/maingallery46.JPG

Gives a whole new meaning to the 'Wave motion gun.'

[George Cumby]

Gives a whole new meaning to the 'Wave motion gun.'

Hehehe.

[pbmax]

OK. I want to take the cartoon thread off track. I have been conducted an informal poll to help us compare Jordy to receivers regardless of color. Looking for the true best match. Here are the most common suggestions so far:

John Stallworth and John Taylor. Its possible that my sample was just thinking about #2 WRs. But both Stallworth and Taylor specialized in getting deep, but could run other routes as became apparent later in their careers.

Honorable mention: Chris Collingsworth. Maybe KYPack or Rand can help me remember, but Chris C was pretty fast in his day, but he did not just run fly and post routes like Corey Bradford or Schroeder. But I almost remember Collinsworth running over the middle quite a bit (and getting concussed) because he was sharing the field with Eddie Brown and Issac Curtis. Anyone lend some context here?

[pbmax]

dp

[mraynrand]

My recollection of Collinsworth was a tall, lanky, too thin guy getting beat up across the middle. But the guy could also run a decent fly pattern too. More like Driver, but less durable. I can't ever recall Cris Collinsworth blocking anyone or stiff-arming anyone effectively, but he may have done it.

I just didn't see enough of Stallworth to know. Taylor is a good example, but he too seemed to play softer than Nelson.

I still think a tougher Miles Austin is a good match.

[RashanGary]

Hines Ward.

[Brandon494]

Hines Ward? Don't see that at all, I said he reminded me of Miles Austin. Don't understand why he would be a tougher Miles though since you never see him make any tough catches over the middle.

[gbgary]

My recollection of Collinsworth was a tall, lanky, too thin guy getting beat up across the middle. But the guy could also run a decent fly pattern too. More like Driver, but less durable. I can't ever recall Cris Collinsworth blocking anyone or stiff-arming anyone effectively, but he may have done it.

I just didn't see enough of Stallworth to know. Taylor is a good example, but he too seemed to play softer than Nelson.

I still think a tougher Miles Austin is a good match.

jordy's way better than that one year wonder miles austin. love that jones threw a shit load of money at that guy.

[mraynrand]

Hines Ward? Don't see that at all, I said he reminded me of Miles Austin. Don't understand why he would be a tougher Miles though since you never see him make any tough catches over the middle.

I said a few pages back I think Jordy plays stronger than Miles Austin. That's what I meant by tougher above. If you want to split hairs over 'tougher' and 'stronger', feel free. Jordy doesn't go over the middle all that much. That's for Driver and in the future I would think Cobb.

[mraynrand]

jordy's way better than that one year wonder miles austin. love that jones threw a shit load of money at that guy.

I agree. But I thought the exercise was to find an apt comparison for body type and playing style.

[Brandon494]

How is he stronger than Miles Austin then?

[mraynrand]

How is he stronger than Miles Austin then?

I looked back at some of the Cowboy games I have and Austin tends to avoid contact more that use a stiff arm, like Nelson. Nelson also seems a more willing and effective blocker. I don't have a ton of film but that's what it looks like to me.

[Brandon494]

jordy's way better than that one year wonder miles austin. love that jones threw a shit load of money at that guy.

You must be a Cowboy hater if you think Nelson is better than Miles Austin. Austin had been going up against team's #1 CB while having Romo at QB while this is Nelson is going against the #2/#3 with the best QB in the league throwing him the ball.

[Brandon494]

I looked back at some of the Cowboy games I have and Austin tends to avoid contact more that use a stiff arm, like Nelson. Nelson also seems a more willing and effective blocker. I don't have a ton of film but that's what it looks like to me.

I think thats because Austin has more elusiveness then Nelson. I don't think Nelson using a stiff arm makes him a stronger player, I honestly I really can't recall Nelson breaking many tackles.

[mraynrand]

You must be a Cowboy hater if you think Nelson is better than Miles Austin. Austin had been going up against team's #1 CB while having Romo at QB while this is Nelson is going against the #2/#3 with the best QB in the league throwing him the ball.

Their careers are following a similar arc, but Jordy is yet to put up the kind of numbers as Austin. Arguably, these should be his big years. I would argue that Witten is a lot like Jennings to Romo, catching very close to 100 both years where Austin went over 1000 yards, and being his number one go to receiver - even if it's at the TE position. I think it makes the comparison more similar.

As far as the high powered offense - it's a trade off -having more targets open things up for you, but they also take away from your potential receptions, reducing your stats.

[mraynrand]

I think thats because Austin has more elusiveness then Nelson.

Especially when it comes to blocking! :wink:

[mraynrand]

From the Protein drink thread, we now know from where Witten's strength comes:

http://images.thepostgame.com/sites/default/files/PickleJuiceSportWitten_blog_post.jpg

[Brandon494]

Their careers are following a similar arc, but Jordy is yet to put up the kind of numbers as Austin. Arguably, these should be his big years. I would argue that Witten is a lot like Jennings to Romo, catching very close to 100 both years where Austin went over 1000 yards, and being his number one go to receiver - even if it's at the TE position. I think it makes the comparison more similar.

As far as the high powered offense - it's a trade off -having more targets open things up for you, but they also take away from your potential receptions, reducing your stats.

You can't compare Wittin and Jennings just because of their stats, Witten never has the #1 CB matched against him like Jennings. Even though they have similar playing styles I still think Miles Austin is a better player than Jordy Nelson.

[mraynrand]

You can't compare Wittin and Jennings just because of their stats, Witten never has the #1 CB matched against him like Jennings.
Actually, that's not true. I've seen Witten covered by the defense's top corner. Also, Jennings is used by Stubby much like Witten is used by Dallas - being put into the slot to force matchups with safeties and LBs. Recall for example Jennings' TD in the Superbowl at the end of the half. Based on number of receptions, Witten has been a far bigger target in Dallas' offense than Jennings in GB - by 30%. Defenses knew he was the number one target in '09 and '10.



Even though they have similar playing styles I still think Miles Austin is a better player than Jordy Nelson.

Of course you do. Still, Austin has two years on Nelson, and Nelson is having his first big year. It will be interesting to see how he matches up over time.

[Brandon494]

Actually, that's not true. I've seen Witten covered by the defense's top corner. Also, Jennings is used by Stubby much like Witten is used by Dallas - being put into the slot to force matchups with safeties and LBs. Recall for example Jennings' TD in the Superbowl at the end of the half. Based on number of receptions, Witten has been a far bigger target in Dallas' offense than Jennings in GB - by 30%. Defenses knew he was the number one target in '09 and '10.

Which top CB has covered Witten? I know Woodson did last year but that's only because Williams is our top cover corner. Its clear Witten is Romo's favorite target but that doesn't change the fact 80% of the time the top CB was covering Miles Austin the past two seasons. This guy was beating double coverage while with Nelson you always see him in single coverage? Why? because teams have to focus on Jennings and Finley.


Of course you do. Still, Austin has two years on Nelson, and Nelson is having his first big year. It will be interesting to see how he matches up over time

Why cuz he's black? (rolls eyes) Sorry I don't see everything thru green and gold glasses. Nelson is having a hell of a year but I see it more due to Rodgers then Nelson making plays. Nelson is always in single coverage and Rodgers is always throwing the ball in the perfect spot. With Miles he actually breaking tackles and has Romo throwing him the ball.

[gbgary]

You must be a Cowboy hater if you think Nelson is better than Miles Austin. Austin had been going up against team's #1 CB while having Romo at QB while this is Nelson is going against the #2/#3 with the best QB in the league throwing him the ball.

austin has been going against 1s and 2s because he's the second best receiver on the cowboys...which isn't saying much. he was out there with roy williams (old, slow, and now gone) and now is second to dez bryant (an out of shape headcase who's always hurt). austin is hurt ALL the time. how many complete games has he played in the last two years?

[Brandon494]

Roy Williams was never the #1 since Austin got the starting job. He was also the #1 last season when Dez was drafted and only reason Bryant is #1 this season is because Miles has been injured. I do beileve that Dez Bryant will pass him as the #1 WR though.

[mraynrand]

Which top CB has covered Witten? I know Woodson did last year but that's only because Williams is our top cover corner. Its clear Witten is Romo's favorite target but that doesn't change the fact 80% of the time the top CB was covering Miles Austin the past two seasons. This guy was beating double coverage while with Nelson you always see him in single coverage? Why? because teams have to focus on Jennings and Finley.



Why cuz he's black? (rolls eyes) Sorry I don't see everything thru green and gold glasses. Nelson is having a hell of a year but I see it more due to Rodgers then Nelson making plays. Nelson is always in single coverage and Rodgers is always throwing the ball in the perfect spot. With Miles he actually breaking tackles and has Romo throwing him the ball.

In the games I looked at, the safety coverage was rolled to Witten more than Austin. The point being - as I already said once - that Austin has not been the primary focus of the defense - Witten has, much like Jennings for the Packers. Because Dallas has fewer targets, Austin has also been getting more opportunities. This is key: Were Nelson on Dallas in place of Austin, he would very likely be getting more throws too (if he weren't injured like Austin). Austin was getting a lot of single coverage - or two deep safety stuff - that Nelson sees a lot too.

Are you saying in 2009 that Williams was better than Woodson? I think that's a close call.

You made the comparison with Austin. I think it was a good comparison. I think your accusation of Green and Gold bias is trite. The only bias comes from having seen Nelson in every game and Austin in only about half his games at best. As I indicated, Austin has two years on Nelson, so it's not clear to me whether Nelson will have the same success as Austin, or whether either of them will last long. I think you're right that Austin is more elusive, but I'll repeat that I think Nelson is stronger with the straight arm breaking tackles and is a better - tougher, stronger, more effective - blocker.

[gbgary]

Roy Williams was never the #1 since Austin got the starting job. He was also the #1 last season when Dez was drafted and only reason Bryant is #1 this season is because Miles has been injured. I do beileve that Dez Bryant will pass him as the #1 WR though.


either way, if you look at jordy and austin over the last...say...two seasons, who'd you rather have on you team? it's not even close. they do have similar body types though their styles are different.

[Brandon494]

I'd rather have Miles Austin

[Cheesehead Craig]

The way Laurent Robinson has been playing, when Austin comes back I think he's going to get bigger numbers with the added threat out there now as the doubles simply won't happen as often. Dallas as 3 very good WRs to add to Witten.

[BZnDallas]

sports talk down here in dallas is talking about bryant being the no. 3 wr at the start of next year... austin being the 1 and robinson being the 2... it actually makes sense b/c they are going to be having bryant return punts now and that probably isn't the best option for your 2 starting wrs... dez obviously has more talent than the other 2 put together but he can't run routes and romo can't trust him to be were he should be... all the good plays you see dez make are broken plays or throw it up and go get it plays... i'd take the GB wr core over the D core but that is pretty obvious... and of course its just sports talk so who really knows... but dez will be returning punts come sunday... something to think about...

just one mans opinion...

[Upnorth]

So it looks like Nelson is getting more praise, this time from Footballoutsider.com
Their charting has Jordy Nelson as having the highest DVOA (high is good, above 0 is better than average, negative is bad) of wide recievers with more than 60 catches. Dude is amazing, and what I think is the best part is Nelson credits the quality of Jennings and Finley making him open more often. That is winning with style!

[gbgary]

:/ fail for not providing a link and making me do all that typing.


edit: whoa...got tired-head very quickly.

[Upnorth]

So why does it sometimes make a link when you type it in, and others not? Or do I just really suck at technology! So is everyone going to pile on like the Bloomberg article? (that was kinda funny)

[mraynrand]

Dude is amazing, and what I think is the best part is Nelson credits the quality of Jennings and Finley making him open more often. That is winning with style!

YEah it's good he acknowledges it, because it's true. That's why you like to have multiple talented offensive players, so that a defense can't shut you down by taking out one or two guys. See the number the Packers D did on Detroit, by doubling Calivin Johnson and putting Matthews and Woodson on Pettigrew. One more quality player and the Packers D would have been at risk (see Giants and N.O. games for examples).

[SkinBasket]

I'd rather have Miles Austin

I would rather you were white.

[mission]

I'd rather have Miles Austin

We're usually on the same page but I don't follow that at all.

[Brandon494]

Miles Austin > Jordy Nelson but I understand why some don't agree.

[mraynrand]

Why do I feel as though Tyrone Bigguns has returned?

[MadtownPacker]

I would rather you were white.
That fool is White. Why you think he hates it so much? More mixed then a damn Mexican. Would have never cast his ass in The Color Purple.

Fuck Austin, what the hell has he done? Flighty Whitey is the shit, hater!

[Brandon494]

Homers

[smuggler]

There is a good case to be made for Nelson, but they are really similar WRs. He's a year or so younger, an inch or so taller, and maybe a shade faster. However, Austin is probably better after the catch. Don't forget, Austin has been injured a lot this season. There's a case to be made for Jordy, but Austin has established a track record, and make no mistake, he is the #1 WR on that team when he's healthy.

[Upnorth]

I would rather you were white.

I really miss reggie too, and our defence could us a hall of famer, but he's gone man, time to move on.


Seriously Austin starts on every team