Offensive rookie of the year?

[Upnorth]

By week three Cam Newton had won the award and it was a no brainer, however after nine games it looks quite different. Andy Dalton has a 2 - 1 td to interception ratio and has thrown more tds than any rookie after nine games. His team is 6-3.
Cam Newton has more picks than tds, and has been less and less effective as the season goes on.

Both inherited very poor dysfunctional teams. Who is your OROY?

My pick is Dalton, less famous but more effective.

[Brandon494]

Cam, you forget to mention his TD rushes and the Panthers are asking a lot more of him then the Bengals are of Dalton.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's close--which is surprising. If the Bengals end up making the playoffs, Dalton stands a good chance of winning the award. I think Newton will end up being a better QB, but Dalton has surprisingly solid his rookie year.

[Smeefers]

Dalton. I'm not saying Cam is playing poorly, but I'm pretty sure Carolina and Cincy both asked the same thing from each player: "Be our quarterback and win games." Really should be a poll question.

[Upnorth]

I would like to see this as a poll as well. Can some one please do this for me?
Also just so no one thinks I am a racist cam hater, I called him the anti Vince Young earlier (which is a huge compliment in my opinion, 39 obaloo)

[Brandon494]

^ Bengals are a run first team which really helps out the QB. Panthers get no support from his running game and is asked to throw a lot more. The Panthers also have one of the worst defenses in the league while the Bengals have a top ten, that's why Bengals have a better record.

Cam has broken two NFL records this year, 3rd in the NFL in rushing TDs, higher QB rating, and has thrown for more yards and yards per attempt. I like Dalton but lets get real here, don't let your hate for Cam block common sense.

[mraynrand]

Cam has broken two NFL records this year, 3rd in the NFL in rushing TDs, higher QB rating, and has thrown for more yards and yards per attempt. I like Dalton but lets get real here, don't let your hate for Cam block common sense.

*Sigh* Another myopic, libelous posting. People will look at all the facts, including the surrounding cast of characters, when deciding who is more deserving of this award. Of course, if you accuse people with whom you disagree of hatred, it's far easier to dismiss them and their arguments. Kinda simplifies things, doesn't it? You don't even have to think.

[vince]

It's a QB dominated league I know, and I haven't looked up his production, but Von Miller is a stud.

EDIT: He has 9.5 sacks in his first 10 games. I think he's going to be a beast for years to come. Newton could too, but if I had to pick one and bet my life on it today, I'd take Miller.

EDIT No. 2: I guess I could have re-read the thread title.

I'm in the camp that thinks Newton will be the better player, but Dalton has been impressive and has made this a real race.

[gbgary]

cam had the better first half but dalton is coming on. both have been great for rookies...heck there are veteran qbs that would love to have the stats of these guys. it's gonna be a good race to see who gets it. if dallas' demarco murray keeps it up he may steal it from both of them.

[Brandon494]

^ yea because we all know that Cam doesnt have a reputation or anything coming out of Auburn. I don't remember any threads about "Andy Dalton is White" during the offseason. This has nothing to do with race but it's a known fact that some fans just plan out don't like Newton while there is no reason for anyone to dislike Dalton.

[mraynrand]

It's a QB dominated league I know, and I haven't looked up his production, but Von Miller is a stud.

EDIT: He has 9.5 sacks in his first 10 games. I think he's going to be a beast for years to come. Newton could too, but if I had to pick one and bet my life on it today, I'd take Miller.

That was quite a sack he had against the Jets last night (back off Skinbasket). So bets are that he gets Defensive rook of the year for sure. Who hands out overall rook of the year honors? I usually don't pay much attention to this stuff.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who doesn't like Newton? I don't think many people give a shit about whether he took money from a booster or whatever happened at Auburn. Some of us didn't like Vince Young coming out because he can't throw. Some of us don't like Tim Tebow's potential because he can't throw. Some of us didn't like JaMarcus Russell coming out because he's lazy. Some of us liked Newton coming out because he can throw, he's not lazy, and it seemed like he was actually a team leader. Most of these are pretty obvious now (Tebow's fate is to be determined). I think I'll be right on all four. Brandon, did you like Young and/or Russell coming out? If not, you were right on all four guys--just like me. :)

[gbgary]

^ yea because we all know that Cam doesnt have a reputation or anything coming out of Auburn. I don't remember any threads about "Andy Dalton is White" during the offseason. This has nothing to do with race but it's a known fact that some fans just plan out don't like Newton while there is no reason for anyone to dislike Dalton.

cam's been fantastic. he may have had some detractors coming out of preseason but no one can have any doubts or negative thoughts now. dalton had his detractors too as he was picked at number 35.

[Smeefers]

^ Bengals are a run first team which really helps out the QB. Panthers get no support from his running game and is asked to throw a lot more. The Panthers also have one of the worst defenses in the league while the Bengals have a top ten, that's why Bengals have a better record.

Cam has broken two NFL records this year, 3rd in the NFL in rushing TDs, higher QB rating, and has thrown for more yards and yards per attempt. I like Dalton but lets get real here, don't let your hate for Cam block common sense.

Yeah, it's not like Cam Newton has DeAngelo Williams or Jonathan Stewart or anything.

Cam's good, there's no doubt about it, I just think Dalton is playing better ball. It has nothing to do with hate either. I could give a shit about either quarterback. They're not packers. I don't have enough invested in these guys to hate them. If Cam was a QB for the Bears, well then... maybe I'd hate him.

[Smeefers]

^ Bengals are a run first team which really helps out the QB. Panthers get no support from his running game and is asked to throw a lot more. The Panthers also have one of the worst defenses in the league while the Bengals have a top ten, that's why Bengals have a better record.

Cam has broken two NFL records this year, 3rd in the NFL in rushing TDs, higher QB rating, and has thrown for more yards and yards per attempt. I like Dalton but lets get real here, don't let your hate for Cam block common sense.

Yeah, it's not like Cam Newton has DeAngelo Williams or Jonathan Stewart or anything.

Cam's good, there's no doubt about it, I just think Dalton is playing better ball. It has nothing to do with hate either. I could give a shit about either quarterback. They're not packers. I don't have enough invested in these guys to hate them. If Cam was a QB for the Bears, well then... maybe I'd hate him.

[vince]

That was quite a sack he had against the Jets last night (back off Skinbasket). So bets are that he gets Defensive rook of the year for sure. Who hands out overall rook of the year honors? I usually don't pay much attention to this stuff.
I don't even know if there is one now that I think about it.:oops:

[mraynrand]

(Tebow's fate is to be determined).

You'd think the guy could throw an accurate pass by now, but it's about 20/80 that he does. That just doesn't cut it in the NFL. You wonder what his offseason regimen was like. Was he just throwing through a tire in the back yard?

[mraynrand]

I don't even know if there is one now that I think about it. Scanning too quickly (among other thigs) can make a guy look stupid can't it.

It's just lucky for me this isn't a video forum

[sharpe1027]

^ yea because we all know that Cam doesnt have a reputation or anything coming out of Auburn. I don't remember any threads about "Andy Dalton is White" during the offseason. This has nothing to do with race but it's a known fact that some fans just plan out don't like Newton while there is no reason for anyone to dislike Dalton.

So because "some fans" don't like Newton, you assume that somebody that picks Dalton must be blinded by their hate for Newton? I agree with rand, that's a lazy man's argument.

Perhaps your "love for Newton" is blinding you. Let's now move away from discussing the facts and try to determine whether hate or love is more blinding. ;)

[gbgary]

So because "some fans" don't like Newton, you assume that somebody that picks Dalton must be blinded by their hate for Newton? I agree with rand, that's a lazy man's argument.

Perhaps your "love for Newton" is blinding you. Let's now move away from discussing the facts and try to determine whether hate or love is more blinding. ;)

i hate love.

[Brandon494]

Yeah, it's not like Cam Newton has DeAngelo Williams or Jonathan Stewart or anything.

Cam's good, there's no doubt about it, I just think Dalton is playing better ball. It has nothing to do with hate either. I could give a shit about either quarterback. They're not packers. I don't have enough invested in these guys to hate them. If Cam was a QB for the Bears, well then... maybe I'd hate him.

Might want to watch a few games or check stats before you post.

[Brandon494]

So because "some fans" don't like Newton, you assume that somebody that picks Dalton must be blinded by their hate for Newton? I agree with rand, that's a lazy man's argument.

Perhaps your "love for Newton" is blinding you. Let's now move away from discussing the facts and try to determine whether hate or love is more blinding. ;)

Maybe I am blinded since I was the only one on this board who thought Cam wouldnt be a bust. If someone showed you these two guys stats without knowing who they were and asked you who is having a better season it's pretty clear Cam would be favored.

[Cheesehead Craig]

^ Bengals are a run first team which really helps out the QB. Panthers get no support from his running game and is asked to throw a lot more. The Panthers also have one of the worst defenses in the league while the Bengals have a top ten, that's why Bengals have a better record.

Cam has broken two NFL records this year, 3rd in the NFL in rushing TDs, higher QB rating, and has thrown for more yards and yards per attempt. I like Dalton but lets get real here, don't let your hate for Cam block common sense.
Saying the Panthers get no run support isn't really accurate. The RBs avg over 4.7 ypc. They can run the ball but they prefer to make use of Cam's running skills. They really are different styles of offense. Cincy is much more of a ball control, shorter passing game with more emphasis on the run whereas Carolina is more of a vertical offense which Steve Smith enables them to have. Overall I'd say that Cam has better targets overall to use. I think that if Carolina used Williams and Stewart more they would be a better offense. Carolina is only avg 3 attempts more per game than Cincy, so I don't believe Cam is being asked to throw a lot more vs Dalton.

Defensively, no contest. Cincy's defense is much better which you would be absolutely correct as to the main reason behind the records.

Cam's a more dynamic playmaker. I think he's still in the lead over Dalton right now. Although it certainly is much closer than it was a month ago.

[Brandon494]

Who doesn't like Newton? I don't think many people give a shit about whether he took money from a booster or whatever happened at Auburn. Some of us didn't like Vince Young coming out because he can't throw. Some of us don't like Tim Tebow's potential because he can't throw. Some of us didn't like JaMarcus Russell coming out because he's lazy. Some of us liked Newton coming out because he can throw, he's not lazy, and it seemed like he was actually a team leader. Most of these are pretty obvious now (Tebow's fate is to be determined). I think I'll be right on all four. Brandon, did you like Young and/or Russell coming out? If not, you were right on all four guys--just like me. :)

I thought VY would be good not knowing he would be a headcase. Russell was a clear bust from the get go and I had to laugh when some compared Cam to him during the offseason.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The stats:

Andy Dalton - 82.6 passer rating, 60.3 completion %, 6.5 ypa, 14 TDs, 9 interceptions, sacked 12 times, 1 fumble on a 6-3 team, 26 rushing yards
Cam Newton - 84.0 passer rating, 60.2 completion %, 8.0 ypa, 11 TDs, 10 interceptions, sacked 22 times, 5 fumbles on on a 2-7 team, 357 rushing yards

Stats look pretty darn close to me. I'd give Cam the edge, but I think it's close.

Another fact is that Dalton has been clutch in a lot of games--while Cam has not:

Dalton

Led 4th quarter comeback over Tennessee
Led 4th quarter comeback (actually, the game was tied heading into the 4th quarter) over Jacksonville
Led 4th quarter comeback over Buffalo
Led 4th quarter comeback over Cleveland

Newton

Led 4th quarter comeback over Jacksonville
He had a chance to win games late in 4 other close losses, but failed against Arizona, Green Bay, Chicago, and Minnesota. I won't fault him for the close loss to New Orleans because the Saints scored with 50 seconds--which didn't give Cam much time.

Like I said, it's close. If Dalton's stats remain solid and the Bengals make the playoffs, he has a shot at winning the award.

[Harlan Huckleby]

while there is no reason for anyone to dislike Dalton. he was mean to the Badgers in the Rose Bowl. He kept taking snap before our guys were rested and ready. bastard.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe I am blinded since I was the only one on this board who thought Cam wouldnt be a bust. If someone showed you these two guys stats without knowing who they were and asked you who is having a better season it's pretty clear Cam would be favored.

Then provide some stats so the discussion is about that (rather than about your conclusions about other people's motives and personal feelings).

[gbgary]

he was mean to the Badgers in the Rose Bowl. He kept taking snap before our guys were rested and ready. bastard.

:D

[Brandon494]

You guys love to leave out Cams 7 rushing TD

[gbgary]

You guys love to leave out Cams 7 rushing TD

that's why he's in the driver's seat as of now.

[Brandon494]

Then provide some stats so the discussion is about that (rather than about your conclusions about other people's motives and personal feelings).

I'm good, I'm currently posting off my iPhone sitting at a poker table in AC. Don't really feel like looking for stats when I know for a fact that some fans just don't like Newton. Now just because you think Dalton is the better QB doesn't mean you don't dislike Newton, it could also mean you just don't know that much about football. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Four of the seven rushing TDs were from one yard out, another from four yards, and only two from longer than four yards. It's nice to have. I think the rushing yards are more impressive than the TDs, and I give him credit for that. That's why I slightly favor him for the award. However, Dalton has done well AND he's been clutch on a 6-3 team. Newton has not been clutch on a 2-7 team.

Total TDs
Dalton 15 (14 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD)
Newton 18 (11 passing TDs, 7 rushing TDs)

Total turnovers
Dalton 9 (9 interceptions, 0 fumbles lost)
Newton 12 (10 interceptions, 2 fumbles lost)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm good, I'm currently posting off my iPhone sitting at a poker table in AC. Don't really feel like looking for stats when I know for a fact that some fans just don't like Newton. Now just because you think Dalton is the better QB doesn't mean you don't dislike Newton, it could also mean you just don't know that much about football. :)

Are we talking about who is the better QB or who should win rookie of the year? They are two different things. Team success does come into play in these awards. I'd rather have Newton on my team, but Dalton's productivity and the Bengals success makes this a close race.

[Fritz]

Brandon, I'm seeing lots of intelligent posts and debate about the merits of one quarterback and the other. Look at Harv's responses. Look what Cheeshead Craig wrote. For you to claim that if people don't agree that Cam Newton should be OROY they're just ignorant or letting personality get in the way is, well, ignorant.

[Brandon494]

Brandon, I'm seeing lots of intelligent posts and debate about the merits of one quarterback and the other. Look at Harv's responses. Look what Cheeshead Craig wrote. For you to claim that if people don't agree that Cam Newton should be OROY they're just ignorant or letting personality get in the way is, well, ignorant.

You might be right, I am a couple of drinks deep right now on these free bourbon and cokes.

[Zool]

Would you take the Bengals RB/WR/TE's or the Panthers?

Benson, Green, Simpson, Gresham
Williams/Stewart, Smith, Naane, Olsen/Shockey

Now which D would you rather have?

Is Cam penalized more because he's always playing from behind? Is he putting up the numbers because of it?
Is Dalton penalized because his team runs more and plays D? Are his numbers suffering because of it?

I'm not sure who I'd vote for right now, but if the Bengals make the playoffs I'd bet on Dalton winning. Apparently I hate Cam Newton now too. Maybe I'm a racist. Is Cam still black?

[gbgary]

You might be right, I am a couple of drinks deep right now on these free bourbon and cokes.


:tup:

[mraynrand]

44 oboaloo, wins affect people's perceptions more than just about anything else. But what also impresses are unexpected outstanding stats. Like a QB who leads the team in rushing, rushing touchdowns as well as in passing. Because of the split running back sit, Newton could lead in all three. Perception does count for a lot and people justifiably see him as the entire team, even though there is a really solid surrounding cast on offense. I still think he needs to finish strong. Dalton could easily finish on a down trend as the Bengals have a tendency to fade down the stretch, and more teams will have film on Dalton. Plus, the Bengals have the Ravens twice, the Steelers, and the Texans yet to play. Dalton probably won't look so hot after those games.

[gbgary]

Is Cam still black? http://packerrats.com/image.php?u=245&dateline=2010 clean those glasses.

[Fritz]

You might be right, I am a couple of drinks deep right now on these free bourbon and cokes.

That explains. Hope you're kicking ass at the table! And if not, enjoy those free drinks. Will you be drunk dialing your friends later?

[Brandon494]

That explains. Hope you're kicking ass at the table! And if not, enjoy those free drinks. Will you be drunk dialing your friends later?

I'm up right now, hopefully I won't do anything stupid and lose it all. I don't mind drunk dialing friends as long as I don't start drunk texting ex girlfriends.

[Fritz]

Ain't that the truth!!!

[sharpe1027]

I'm good, I'm currently posting off my iPhone sitting at a poker table in AC. Don't really feel like looking for stats when I know for a fact that some fans just don't like Newton. Now just because you think Dalton is the better QB doesn't mean you don't dislike Newton, it could also mean you just don't know that much about football. :)

Agreed. :)

[Upnorth]

So looking only at the stats Dalton leads in turnover ratio, Newton leads in ypa and rushing.
Dalton leads in wins a 'it' factor, Newton has big numbers.

I'm not a big 'it' believer but I do think turnovers are huge. On the other hand ypa is huge as well. Newton has one of the best deep threats, dalton has a great rookie receiver. I don't think you can say Newton has had that much more impact on his team than Dalton. I think long term Newton is the better pick (he has insane upside) but in year one so far Dalton has his team in playoff competition vrs last place in the division.

[channtheman]

^ yea because we all know that Cam doesnt have a reputation or anything coming out of Auburn. I don't remember any threads about "Andy Dalton is White" during the offseason. This has nothing to do with race but it's a known fact that some fans just plan out don't like Newton while there is no reason for anyone to dislike Dalton.

Didn't that fucker Dalton play for TCU and beat the Badgers? Plenty reason to hate him. Cam all the way!

[pbmax]

Harv, did you just do to Newton what Silverstein did to Rodgers and McCarthy last year? Clutch, defined by drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead for the win, depend very much on having a defense.

Cincinnati's offensive line is better all around, skill position players aside. DeAngelo Stewart doesn't help much if you can't run block. Carolina's offensive line is ranked 18th in the run game and 17th in pass protection. Cincinnati is 10th in the run game and 6th in pass pro. Average per carry doesn't tell you much if they are always short of first downs.

[Lurker64]

To vote for a QB for ORotY he would have to lead his team to the playoffs, or at least be in a position where he could secure a playoff spot with some sequence of events in week 17. Otherwise, I'd look for an offensive lineman to vote for.

[ThunderDan]

Harv, did you just do to Newton what Silverstein did to Rodgers and McCarthy last year? Clutch, defined by drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead for the win, depend very much on having a defense.



I was just going to say something to that effect when I saw your post. Even if the other team leaves you 40 seconds to score you are still a choker.

Say, I think it's 16 games in a row without a comeback victory!

[Smeefers]

Okay, I'm bumping this to point out how much of a complete moron I am. Cam Newton had a historic rookie season. I never saw this coming. He's offensive rookie of the year hands down.

[Brandon494]

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=7390540&hcId=7308862

Good read on Cam becoming the next big star in the NFL....the next Jamarcus Russell my ass :)

[sharpe1027]

BF obaloo, I also think Cam deserves it, but here is an article to stir the pot:


NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year: Andy Dalton a Lock with Win Against Ravens

Andy Dalton is having an outstanding rookie season under center for the Cincinnati Bengals. If Dalton and the Bengals defeat the Baltimore Ravens Sunday and secure a playoff berth, Dalton should be the surefire Offensive Rookie of the Year.

Many will argue that Cam Newton of the Carolina Panthers is a more deserving candidate. The same folks will argue that OROTY is an individual award, but that hasn’t always been the case in history.


Goes on to say:


Regardless of who wins the award one thing is for sure—both are equally deserving. If Dalton and the Bengals win Sunday and make the postseason that should go a long way toward solidifying Dalton as the OROTY.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1002970-nfl-offensive-rookie-of-the-year-andy-dalton-a-lock-with-win-against-ravens

[King Friday]

Cam probably deserves it, although if Dalton can beat the Ravens and get the Bengals into the postseason I think that is just as impressive as anything Cam has done.

Who cares if Cam runs for 100 TDs...if his team doesn't make the postseason compared to another rookie who did lead his team there.

[Brandon494]

It's the bleacherreport...enough said. That article was written by a Bengals fan.

[Brandon494]

And the only reason Dalton has a chance at the playoff is because of the Bengals defense. I still have to laugh at people who are trying to take away the OROY award from Cam with the Dalton argument. Yes Dalton is having a great season but get the out of here with that garbage, Cam is having possibly the greatest season EVER by a rookie.

[Brandon494]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/12/25/week.16/index.html

Good article by Peter King on Aarons as the MVP and Cam as the OROY.

[Tarlam!]

It's the bleacherreport...enough said. That article was written by a Bengals fan.

Ridiculous! If CM isn't a unanimous vote, something is wrong with NFL observers.

[sharpe1027]

Dalton played well enough to win it most other years. Not this year. No way.

[gbgary]

nope...it's cam. he's terrific. rg III is going to be something else too.

[Freak Out]

Pretty hard to argue against Newton as OFOY at this point....what Dalton has done is pretty impressive especially if the Bengals beat the Ravens but Newton is going to be the next NFL poster boy unless he gets hurt or really gets stupid.

[Tarlam!]

Good read on Cam becoming the next big star in the NFL....the next Jamarcus Russell my ass :)

Last OROY QB was Sam Bradford May still work out. Matt Ryan. He seems to be pretty good. The one before him was Vince Young. Nuff said on him.

Obsiously, the QB can't do it all, so if CM doesn't get the supporting cast, he may be another Bradford. A coaching change has been predicted and that won't help his cause.

[pbmax]

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=7390540&hcId=7308862

Good read on Cam becoming the next big star in the NFL....the next Jamarcus Russell my ass :)

Maybe not JaMarcus, but the next hurdle is big. He has to get better. He seems the kind of striver that will.

I agree with Smeefers, did not see this coming. Jerry Richardson could give Jerry Jones some pointers on playing GM.

[bobblehead]

^ yea because we all know that Cam doesnt have a reputation or anything coming out of Auburn. I don't remember any threads about "Andy Dalton is White" during the offseason. This has nothing to do with race but it's a known fact that some fans just plan out don't like Newton while there is no reason for anyone to dislike Dalton.

Isn't Dalton a red head? That means all of england is against him.

[Fritz]

Man, if people didn't like players because they were black, there wouldn't be many fans of the NFL.

[Brandon494]

Hes nothing to do with him being black, its about his reputation coming out of college.

[Upnorth]

So hands down off roy is jamarcus, er I mean Cam Newton. Seriously if he eliminates a few picks he will be elite in no time, his rookie year is probably the best ever.

[gbgary]

Isn't Dalton a red head? That means all of england is against him.

well...here's a ginger that proves that wrong.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2010/8/25/1282762665354/Paul-Scholes-006.jpg

"paul scholes he scores goals." :D

[Joemailman]

Isn't Dalton a red head? That means all of england is against him.

Not to mention the John Birch Society.

[mraynrand]

And the only reason Dalton has a chance at the playoff is because of the Bengals defense. I still have to laugh at people who are trying to take away the OROY award from Cam with the Dalton argument. Yes Dalton is having a great season but get the out of here with that garbage, Cam is having possibly the greatest season EVER by a rookie.

Dalton is playing pretty well this season, regardless of the Bengal's defense. In any other year, he might be OROY or even overall rookie of the year. But then there's Cam. Hands down best rookie of the year. It's not even close.

[Tarlam!]

overall rookie of the year.

Is that an award?

[Brandon494]

So far Cam has a total of 34 TDs, the Panthers only had a total of 9 offensive TDs last season. Also someone said if he cuts back on his INTs he'll be a elite in no time, the guy only has 16 INTs which is not bad at all considering how much hes thrown the ball this season. Don't think he'll be as good as Peyton Manning but he had 29 picks his rookie season. I was one of the few on this board who didn't think he'd be a bust but damn even I didn't think the guy would be this good.