New Silverstein article - Favre Vs. Rodgers in their prime - WHO is better?

[retailguy]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/134041253.html

I found this article interesting, but a bit slanted imo. Comparing a 16 game stretch as opposed to a 16 game season seems a bit disingeneous to me. I think Rodgers is having a better season so far than Favre ever did, but Favre still was a great one for an extended period of time.

What say you?

[vince]

I agree. Favre was great in his time for sure, though hand-picking his best stretch to measure against what Rodgers is doing now is stacking the deck. If you look at their first x games starting up to this point in Rodgers' career you get a vasty different picture. Plus, the current 16 game stretch Rodgers is on may not (probably won't) end up being the best of his career. With every game that comes, his last 16 gets better and better.

[Freak Out]

Favre had a crazy run in 96-97 but lets wait until we see how the rest of this race goes. Rodgers is on fucking fire right now.

[RashanGary]

Very similar. I always remembered Favre as being the guy who could do the impossible. I think after 30 years of mostly aweful QB play and very few wins, Packer fans were ready to immortalize the first guy who was great.

Looking at that video Silverstein posted, I'd say Rodgers looks like the better QB (just the eye test) The way Favre was hyped, outside of a 10 or 15 plays in 20 years where he did something out of control and insane (that actually worked), Favre doesn't look as good as AR. And AR is steadier, a guy you can trust more and a guy who leads better by example.

[gbgary]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[RashanGary]

Favre always said, when he was a kid and in college, he loved to force it into double coverage. Something about the tough throw got tripped his trigger.

Favre Edges:

Tougher

Longevity (No way AR comes even close to the # of games Favre played at that level)

More likely to make that impossible throw into double/triple coverage in the last 10 seconds of a game (he had a lot of practice doing it when he shouldn't have)

Tempo.

Better at short, tight passes

Better at drawing in rushers and throwing the touch screen around or over guys that are right on him


AR edges:

Accuracy

Decision making

Running

Leadership

Character

Work ethic

Willingness to do what works over and over and over and over without having to take the spotlight with something stupid

Way, way way better down the field

Better at the line of scrimmage with play selection and chemistry with his guys (he actually works with them during the offseason workouts)








Both great players, but more likely to win the game?

Rogers

[RashanGary]

AR is more like Tiger Woods. He gets that lead and then over and over and over just makes the highest percentage decision until his opponents were left in the dust.

Favre is like Phil. Charismatic, loves the tough shot, loves to improvise. . . . Never won as many as he should have with his talent.

[vince]

AR is more like Tiger Woods. He gets that lead and then over and over and over just makes the highest percentage decision until his opponents were left in the dust.

Favre is like Phil. Charismatic, loves the tough shot, loves to improvise. . . . Never won as many as he should have with his talent.
Not bad, although off the field all bets are off.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't mind taking a stretch that crosses two seasons, but there were two problems I had with the article.

1) They made the cutoff for Rodgers the Detroit game last year. Yet, he was on quite the run before that game. He had completed over 70% of his passes for over 9 ypa with 11 TDs and 0 interceptions in the previous 3 games. It seems this run should have stretched 3 more games. It might have been harder to find a 19 game stretch where Favre played like this. 16 games is easier. Rodgers is on a ridiculous 19 games run and it just keeps getting extended.
2) He didn't mention rushing yards--even though he mentioned sacks. Rodgers gets the nod in rushing yards.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not bad, although off the field all bets are off.

I was going to say the same thing. On the course, it's a good comparison. Off the course, Rodgers is more like Phil and Brett more like Tiger.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Favre had a crazy run in 96-97 but lets wait until we see how the rest of this race goes. Rodgers is on fucking fire right now.

Favre was actually ridiculous from mid 95 through 96. I think he won the 97 MVP on reputation. Still good, but not at the level prior. Similar to a few years after the MVP run. Sanders probably should have won the MVP that year. I actually think Favre was better in 2007 than 1997.

[Fosco33]

Fun to watch the '95 TDs. Things I miss/remembered:

- the 99 yard TD by Brooks - wow - he was fast!
- Favre sure was more mobile in his younger days (duh)
- Levens had his fair share of TD receptions that year
- I miss the screen against aggressive blitzing defenses. I don't know if we run less of them or if they're less effective... just feels that way

[Fosco33]

Favre was actually ridiculous from mid 95 through 96. I think he won the 97 MVP on reputation. Still good, but not at the level prior. Similar to a few years after the MVP run. Sanders probably should have won the MVP that year. I actually think Favre was better in 2007 than 1997.

I thought Favre shared it one of those years (97?) with Barry.

[vince]

Favre was actually ridiculous from mid 95 through 96. I think he won the 97 MVP on reputation. Still good, but not at the level prior. Similar to a few years after the MVP run. Sanders probably should have won the MVP that year. I actually think Favre was better in 2007 than 1997.
Sanders and Favre were co-MVP's in '97.
(http://football.about.com/od/nflhistory/l/bl_awardsmvp.htm)

[sheepshead]

My son comments, that while Rodgers is awesome, Favre was more fun to watch. More exciting, that spin move and launching it down field. The bullets seemed to whiz faster. (not at all sure about that). Probably just Brett's style of play. I do know, I havent popped on and cursed at the TV like I did so many times for Favre.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sanders and Favre were co-MVP's in '97.
(http://football.about.com/od/nflhistory/l/bl_awardsmvp.htm)

Right. I think Sanders should have won it outright that year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My son comments, that while Rodgers is awesome, Favre was more fun to watch. More exciting, that spin move and launching it down field. The bullets seemed to whiz faster. (not at all sure about that). Probably just Brett's style of play. I do know, I havent popped on and cursed at the TV like I did so many times for Favre.

I curse when he holds onto the ball too long. It's not that I don't think he'll make a play on the next down. I just don't want him getting hurt. I cursed Brett for an untimely interception.

[mmmdk]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I agree :lol: but if you must know - it's the quaterback Aaron Rodgers.

[Fritz]

I agree that there are flaws in the picking, but I do think that the bigger point - that our perceptions of Favre's antics at the end of his Packer career have colored our sense of him as a player - is a good point.

He was really, really good for that stretch.

[mmmdk]

My son comments, that while Rodgers is awesome, Favre was more fun to watch. More exciting, that spin move and launching it down field. The bullets seemed to whiz faster. (not at all sure about that). Probably just Brett's style of play. I do know, I havent popped on and cursed at the TV like I did so many times for Favre.

I haven't had this much fun watching a Packers QB since the 1989 season.

[Freak Out]

Favre was actually ridiculous from mid 95 through 96. I think he won the 97 MVP on reputation. Still good, but not at the level prior. Similar to a few years after the MVP run. Sanders probably should have won the MVP that year. I actually think Favre was better in 2007 than 1997.

Ok...got my years swapped or something....I just remember about 47 or so TDs to like 7 ints over a 16 game span. Thought it was 96-97.

[Fosco33]

I curse when he holds onto the ball too long. It's not that I don't think he'll make a play on the next down. I just don't want him getting hurt. I cursed Brett for an untimely interception.

Same here. He took far too many hits against the Vikes on Monday.

One thing about Brett - he knew how to fall well - when he got jacked. This would be one of the many reasons why his streak is ridiculous (others being luck, timing of bye weeks, Vicodin and loose restrictions on concussion treatment).

[RashanGary]

Harvey should write an article on Favre vs Rodgers. It could be put on Wikipedia and quoted as sports gospel.


It would be fun to have a Favre - Rodgers Packer documentary made with honest commentary from Holmgren, McCarthy, WR's who played with them, WR's who played with both, family, friends, experts who were influential in the game during both reigns, fans who watched one, fans who watched both. . . . . .

I know Packer fans would be the only ones really interested. I think most Pack fans are past the Favre or Rodgers "hate" but are still really interested in the great QB history of the last 20 (and might turn into 30) years. The comparison just never dies. It always draws us in.

With Rodgers arm, his athleticism, the way he cares for his body. . . . . As he gets older, like all QB's, they develop more self preservation. Rodgers will start laying down more or just unloading it into the ground near a WR. He could play at a high level into his late 30's. He could hold all of the single season record, all of the streak records, have SB rings, MVP's and be close to all time record when he's done. . . . . . Even if it's mostly a history thing, I think we'd eat it up.

[Fritz]

How about a "Lynn Dickey vs. Don Majkowski - who was better?" thread?

[KalamazooPackerFan]

How about a "Lynn Dickey vs. Don Majkowski - who was better?" thread?

Dickey, hands down though the Majik Man was the reason my wife finally started watching football because he was just so damn cute!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Rodgers keeps playing the way he's playing and wins a couple more titles then you have to give it to Rodgers.

[CaptainD]

I really don't think you can compare the two. Rodgers is a much better game manager but Favre might be a better Houdini on the run ? Seems like much to do about nothing.....

[King Friday]

I've got to give the edge to Favre for now...his mid 90's run lasted for 3 solid years, and he had far less surrounding talent. Brooks was a nice player, but Jennings is better and the depth on the current team is crazy. Favre was tossing to an old Don Beebe and old Andre Rison and putting up MVP numbers. Finley is significantly better than Chmura or an aging Keith Jackson. The only spot Favre had an edge was at RB, where Bennett/Levens proved the perfect fit for Favre's aerial assault.

Rodgers has probably played better over a shorter period, but he'll need to continue it for another year or so to better Favre's stretch IMO. 3 consecutive MVP awards speaks for itself.

[King Friday]

The bullets seemed to whiz faster.

They did. Favre's arm strength can only be matched by a few others in the history of the game. When he was a young kid, he was unreal. He honestly made throws that no one else could make...Rodgers included. His arm wasn't quite the same later in his career, although it remained (and probably still is) one of the strongest in the league. Favre's arm is comparable to Nolan Ryan's. The rest of their bodies declined well before their arms did...both had/will have the capacity to throw the ball at a professional level into their 60s, which is flat out ridiculous.

[VegasPackFan]

The main difference is that Rodgers is more systematic (and damn good at it) vs Favre who improvised and gave you about a 50/50 chance of as pectacular win or crash and burn. I wrote a post back during the tough time of the "transition" that laid out my thoughts about it.

[Joemailman]

How about a "Lynn Dickey vs. Don Majkowski - who was better?" thread?

How about a "John Hadl vs. Jerry Tagge - who was worse?" thread?

[HarveyWallbangers]

They did. Favre's arm strength can only be matched by a few others in the history of the game. When he was a young kid, he was unreal. He honestly made throws that no one else could make...Rodgers included. His arm wasn't quite the same later in his career, although it remained (and probably still is) one of the strongest in the league. Favre's arm is comparable to Nolan Ryan's. The rest of their bodies declined well before their arms did...both had/will have the capacity to throw the ball at a professional level into their 60s, which is flat out ridiculous.

Comparing arm strength, I'd give Favre a slight edge, but more on slants and outs. Not on deep balls. Rodgers throws a better deep ball.

[Joemailman]

Until this year, Rodgers hadn't had a year to compare with Favre's best. This year though, he's having a season for the ages and if it continues many will say it eclipses anything Favre did. It's hard to make comparisons like that though. In 1996 Favre was the only QB in the NFL to have a passer rating over 90. This year there are 8. Last year there were 13. The one thing that can certainly be said is that both were clearly the NFL's best QB when at their best. My guess is that Rodgers' inner discipline will enable him to stay on top at least as long as Favre. That is, if he can stay healthy. Favre's physical toughness is something I'm not sure Rodgers (or anyone else) can match. He needs to find a way to reduce the hits he takes.

[Pugger]

I say enough of this bull shit. I'm sick to death of folks comparing these two guys ad nausium. Now I can understand the crap Young had to put up with following Montana. When it is all said and done and if Rodgers stays healthy he's gonna rewrite the record books and there will be no comparison.

[vince]

Comparing arm strength, I'd give Favre a slight edge, but more on slants and outs. Not on deep balls. Rodgers throws a better deep ball.
Agree. Rodgers doesn't takie a back seat to many of the greats in terms of hiis arm and release, but Favre may be one of them. Not by much and not in all facets as you say. In general, the two are pretty comparable physically.

Favre's longevity and toughness seperates their careers at this point, but it's the decision making that separates the two as players - and has for pretty much all of Rodgers' career thus far.

[Noodle]

Sorry to be Capt. Obvious, but shouldn't we take a minute to bask in how lucky we are as Pack fans to be having this debate? I doubt there are similar threads on Bear boards.

I too get a little tired of the comparison thing. Favre, when he was in his prime, was amazing, just as A-Rod is now, just as Bart was in his day.

I don't really care who is better, whatever that means. I'm just glad they both played here.

[Fritz]

How about a "John Hadl vs. Jerry Tagge - who was worse?" thread?

Jerry Tagge was worse. Hadl was awful, but at least he had been good, at one point. Tagge never was. I'd say a Jerry Tagge vs. Bobby Douglass thread would cause hotter debate.

[Travbrew]

Sorry to be Capt. Obvious, but shouldn't we take a minute to bask in how lucky we are as Pack fans to be having this debate? I doubt there are similar threads on Bear boards.

I too get a little tired of the comparison thing. Favre, when he was in his prime, was amazing, just as A-Rod is now, just as Bart was in his day.

I don't really care who is better, whatever that means. I'm just glad they both played here.

This... Noodle = elegantly wasted, elegantly elegant.

[Gunakor]

I've got to give the edge to Favre for now...his mid 90's run lasted for 3 solid years, and he had far less surrounding talent.


Favre had far less surrounding talent than Rodgers over a 3 year stretch? This year, 2011, Rodgers has far more surrounding talent than Favre had at any point in his career. Agree completely. But over a 3 year period? Favre's surrounding talent during his 3 year run in the mid 90's had a bit more on Rodgers' offenses from 09-11 than a solid running game.

For example, while Finley is significantly better than Chewy or Jackson, Finley only applies to this season. He missed most of last seaon and was a near non factor for the majority of the 2009 season. You have to compare Chewy and Jackson to guys like Andrew Quarless and Donald Lee as well.

Favre also had a more dependable offensive line over the course of his 3 year run than Rodgers has had over the course of any 3 year stretch of his career. What Favre didn't have was depth at WR. But he had comparable or better talent everywhere else.

[HowardRoark]

I curse when he holds onto the ball too long. It's not that I don't think he'll make a play on the next down. I just don't want him getting hurt.

Exactly. He's getting hit way too often lately.

[sheepshead]

Jerry Tagge was worse. Hadl was awful, but at least he had been good, at one point. Tagge never was. I'd say a Jerry Tagge vs. Bobby Douglass thread would cause hotter debate.

I actually met a woman last month that dated Tagge in college.

[Pugger]

Sorry to be Capt. Obvious, but shouldn't we take a minute to bask in how lucky we are as Pack fans to be having this debate? I doubt there are similar threads on Bear boards.

I too get a little tired of the comparison thing. Favre, when he was in his prime, was amazing, just as A-Rod is now, just as Bart was in his day.

I don't really care who is better, whatever that means. I'm just glad they both played here.

Amen.

[Fred's Slacks]

Rodgers is out of his mind good right now. Only season that compares is Brady's in 07.

That said, Favre is so unique. The thing that sticks out to me about Favre was that he played the QB position unlike any other hall of fame caliber QB and we may never see that again, from anyone.

He wasn't Aikman, Montana, Elway or any of the other HOF'ers. I hate the cliche but he really did play the position like he was a linebacker. He wasn't a technitian, he wasn't a student of the game, and he definately wasn't a great role model for kids or even teamates to look up to. But unlike anyone else who approached the game the way he did, he was succesfull.

Every few years we'd see people coming out of college who were the next Favre. They were gunslingers, wild and unrefined, but they had a cannon for an arm and could make all the throws so people drooled over them. They never pan out. One inparticular, Jay Cutler, has had a succesfull NFL career but, to me, personifies why Favre was so special. Jay can be great at times, but he can never seem to put it together for more than a few games at a time before the gunslinger mentality blows up in his face. Then he throws 12 picks in three games and costs his team a playoff spot or something.

But Favre made it work, to the tune of 3 MVPs, numerous Division titles, 4 NFC championship games, 2 superbowls and 1 ring. I'm not sure that anyone else could accomplish that the way he played.

[LEWCWA]

Favre was great, when we needed something great in the worst way. Rodgers is doing the same for the Packers now. I have to think had Rodgers failed this little rift we have going could have gotton much worse. We are very fortunate as fans. Look at Denver and Miami, they can't find a QB to save their lives. Hell Denver has hitched their wagon to a guy who completes 2 passes in a game.

[LEWCWA]

Rodgers is out of his mind good right now. Only season that compares is Brady's in 07.

That said, Favre is so unique. The thing that sticks out to me about Favre was that he played the QB position unlike any other hall of fame caliber QB and we may never see that again, from anyone.

He wasn't Aikman, Montana, Elway or any of the other HOF'ers. I hate the cliche but he really did play the position like he was a linebacker. He wasn't a technitian, he wasn't a student of the game, and he definately wasn't a great role model for kids or even teamates to look up to. But unlike anyone else who approached the game the way he did, he was succesfull.

Every few years we'd see people coming out of college who were the next Favre. They were gunslingers, wild and unrefined, but they had a cannon for an arm and could make all the throws so people drooled over them. They never pan out. One inparticular, Jay Cutler, has had a succesfull NFL career but, to me, personifies why Favre was so special. Jay can be great at times, but he can never seem to put it together for more than a few games at a time before the gunslinger mentality blows up in his face. Then he throws 12 picks in three games and costs his team a playoff spot or something.

But Favre made it work, to the tune of 3 MVPs, numerous Division titles, 4 NFC championship games, 2 superbowls and 1 ring. I'm not sure that anyone else could accomplish that the way he played.

very good post

[Fritz]

I actually met a woman last month that dated Tagge in college.

But she broke up with him because he couldn't complete, even when she was wide open.

http://instantrimshot.com/

[ThunderDan]

Until this year, Rodgers hadn't had a year to compare with Favre's best. This year though, he's having a season for the ages and if it continues many will say it eclipses anything Favre did. It's hard to make comparisons like that though. In 1996 Favre was the only QB in the NFL to have a passer rating over 90. This year there are 8. Last year there were 13. The one thing that can certainly be said is that both were clearly the NFL's best QB when at their best. My guess is that Rodgers' inner discipline will enable him to stay on top at least as long as Favre. That is, if he can stay healthy. Favre's physical toughness is something I'm not sure Rodgers (or anyone else) can match. He needs to find a way to reduce the hits he takes.

Joe, thanks for the post it got me thinking about your first sentence.

Favre's 2 Best Years
1995 4,413y 63.0% Comp 38 TDs 13 INTs 99.5 QBR 3 Rush TDs
2009 4,202y 68.4% Comp 33 TDs 7 INTs 107.2 QBR O Rush TDs

Rodger's 2 Best Years
2009 4,434y 64.7% Comp 30 TDs 7 INTs 103.2 QBR 5 Rush TDs
2010 3,922y 65.7% Comp 28 TDs 11 INTs 101.2 QBR 4 Rush TDs

[ThunderDan]

Joe, thanks for the post it got me thinking about your first sentence.

Favre's 2 Best Years
1995 4,413y 63.0% Comp 38 TDs 13 INTs 99.5 QBR 3 Rush TDs
2009 4,202y 68.4% Comp 33 TDs 7 INTs 107.2 QBR O Rush TDs

Rodger's 2 Best Years
2009 4,434y 64.7% Comp 30 TDs 7 INTs 103.2 QBR 5 Rush TDs
2010 3,922y 65.7% Comp 28 TDs 11 INTs 101.2 QBR 4 Rush TDs

Thinking a little more, it's interesting that you have 19 years to pick for BF and 3 years to pick for ARod.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rodgers is out of his mind good right now. Only season that compares is Brady's in 07.

That said, Favre is so unique. The thing that sticks out to me about Favre was that he played the QB position unlike any other hall of fame caliber QB and we may never see that again, from anyone.

He wasn't Aikman, Montana, Elway or any of the other HOF'ers. I hate the cliche but he really did play the position like he was a linebacker. He wasn't a technitian, he wasn't a student of the game, and he definately wasn't a great role model for kids or even teamates to look up to. But unlike anyone else who approached the game the way he did, he was succesfull.

Every few years we'd see people coming out of college who were the next Favre. They were gunslingers, wild and unrefined, but they had a cannon for an arm and could make all the throws so people drooled over them. They never pan out. One inparticular, Jay Cutler, has had a succesfull NFL career but, to me, personifies why Favre was so special. Jay can be great at times, but he can never seem to put it together for more than a few games at a time before the gunslinger mentality blows up in his face. Then he throws 12 picks in three games and costs his team a playoff spot or something.

But Favre made it work, to the tune of 3 MVPs, numerous Division titles, 4 NFC championship games, 2 superbowls and 1 ring. I'm not sure that anyone else could accomplish that the way he played.

I thought Elway and Favre were quite similar in playing styles, arm strength, toughness, etc.

[ThunderDan]

Favre's Worst Year (Starting All 16 games giving BF a pass for 2010)
1993 3,303y 60.9% Comp 24 TDs 30 INTs 72.2 QBR 1 Rush TDs

Rodger's Worst Year
2008 4,038y 63.6% Comp 28 TDs 13 INTs 93.8 QBR 4 Rush TDs

[Fred's Slacks]

I thought Elway and Favre were quite similar in playing styles, arm strength, toughness, etc.

Maybe. Definately similar in arm strength and toughness. But I see Elway as more of a student of the game and role model type. Less of a risk taker and less likey to mix it up with the oposing team's nose tackle. Favre seemed to want to throw it into double coverage just to prove he could. Maybe Elway was like that too but I don't remember it.

[yooperfan]

It's to early to compare. Who knows maybe Rogers hasn't reached his prime yet. Through most of
Favre's years with the Packers I'd tell my friends I'd rather watch Favre play in a wheelchair then
watch most other quarterbacks play healthy.

It's like that again with Rogers. And it is FUN!!!

Brees and Brady are OK but man, Tebow may be winning but he
throws a ball like a shotput and it's no fun to watch and everyone else
is fair to middling.

[Pugger]

Rodgers' play is spoiling us big time! When I watch other QBs - either in the NLF or the top collegiate ones - they just don't/can't do what Rodgers does and ARod makes it look so easy! This is what makes Rodgers so great. :cool:

[Joemailman]

Maybe. Definately similar in arm strength and toughness. But I see Elway as more of a student of the game and role model type. Less of a risk taker and less likey to mix it up with the oposing team's nose tackle. Favre seemed to want to throw it into double coverage just to prove he could. Maybe Elway was like that too but I don't remember it.

There wasn't much difference between the two. Elway definitely was prone to throwing into double coverage at times. For their careers, Favre had 3.3% of his passes intercepted, Elway 3.1. Elway did avoid the 20+ INT years that plagued Favre a few times.

[George Cumby]

Rodgers' play is spoiling us big time! When I watch other QBs - either in the NLF or the top collegiate ones - they just don't/can't do what Rodgers does and ARod makes it look so easy! This is what makes Rodgers so great. :cool:

+1

Watching Rodgers is like watching a surgeon who is the master of his craft. Watching Brett was like watching a jazz musician on a mad improvisational riff.

Rodgers seemingly spent his time well carrying the clip-board. He doesn't make the errors Brett did but you see Brett in his play when he's making it up on the fly.

We are so lucky.

[Pugger]

+1

Watching Rodgers is like watching a surgeon who is the master of his craft. Watching Brett was like watching a jazz musician on a mad improvisational riff.

Rodgers seemingly spent his time well carrying the clip-board. He doesn't make the errors Brett did but you see Brett in his play when he's making it up on the fly.

We are so lucky.

Thanks Ted!!! :cool:

[Packers4Glory]

so yeah. we've had really really really really really really good QB play for the better part of 20 years.

One thing that is different from Favre's earlier seasons is the lg is doing more and more to protect the QB and gearing the game towards offense. The game is def a lot different this yr than it was even 5 years ago much less 10. Favre made some really crappy WR look decent.

All I know is we have been extremely fortunate to have had both guys and in succession. I find what AR has done following a NFL legend absolutely astounding. Very little precedent for what he's done and how he's done it.

[Pugger]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7272995/rick-reilly-rodgers-better-favre

[Brandon494]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7272995/rick-reilly-rodgers-better-favre


Yes, Favre is one of the most unforgettable quarterbacks of all time. He's Halle Berry in a bikini. But Rodgers is Halle Berry in a bikini carrying an ice-cold 12-pack and the keys to a free Maserati. :)