Hawk, Bishop Ruled Out For Sunday

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/134920558.html

So it's D.J. Smith and Francois. Sounds like Smith will be wearing the headset, although Woodson and Burnett also practiced with it this week. I wonder if Giants will try to isolate receivers on Smith to take advantage of his lack of height.

Who the heck is next in if Smith or Francois get hurt?

[pbmax]

Jones played some inside backer in preseason and I am guessing Lattimore would have to as well. Or they play a lot of dime personnel.

[Zool]

The 3-3-5 will probably be in effect for the second half.

[pbmax]

wrong thread

[sheepshead]

si

[red]

i'm kind of excited to see smith play with the starters

guy has a nonstop motor

[mission]

This is going to be Smith's true breakout game... if Hawk continues to stay out with Bishop back next week, who knows, might be the beginning of the end for his stay in GB. I know that's going out on a limb and probably ridiculous to some of you. Just think DJ is a ball player who will be hard to keep off the field.

Smith is hard to block. I really, really like him.

[Brandon494]

This is going to be Smith's true breakout game... if Hawk continues to stay out with Bishop back next week, who knows, might be the beginning of the end for his stay in GB. I know that's going out on a limb and probably ridiculous to some of you. Just think DJ is a ball player who will be hard to keep off the field.

Smith is hard to block. I really, really like him.

Not ridiculous at all, I would love the combo of Bishop and DJ as our starting MLB. Trade Hawk for a OLB during the offseason or let him go unless he improves his play which I don't see happening.

[ND72]

I love how we went last year praising Hawk for being the general on the field, now we are ready to trade him for an unproven 5'11" rookie. I remember when Bryan Brohm was our savior against Aaron Rodgers by so many here. Hawk isn't going anywhere.

[mission]

I love how we went last year praising Hawk for being the general on the field, now we are ready to trade him for an unproven 5'11" rookie. I remember when Bryan Brohm was our savior against Aaron Rodgers by so many here. Hawk isn't going anywhere.

DJ Smith is not Brian Brohm from a Packers contribution standpoint. We're allowed to make predictions, and most times be wrong, but I have a hunch that Smith is not a 5'11" backup his whole career. Much more than that actually. You'll see it if he gets extended opportunity.

And I'm not bashing Hawk at all. Recent coaches quotes on Smith are that he was born to tackle people and has incredible football instincts. Sometimes the next guy just ends up being better... Barnett vs Bishop. That's my hunch.

[Deputy Nutz]

You don't resign a guy and then cut him the next year, your salary cap would be all fucked up, and Hawk's play on the field and his contract won't benefit the packers in trade scenerios.

Grow up.

[Brandon494]

I love how we went last year praising Hawk for being the general on the field, now we are ready to trade him for an unproven 5'11" rookie. I remember when Bryan Brohm was our savior against Aaron Rodgers by so many here. Hawk isn't going anywhere.

Get over your "man crush" of Hawk, hes not that good. Hes like the Atari Bigby of our LBing corp, hes JAG.

[Brandon494]

You don't resign a guy and then cut him the next year, your salary cap would be all fucked up, and Hawk's play on the field and his contract won't benefit the packers in trade scenerios.

Grow up.

Blow me, its a joke that his guy will be making 7-8 million a year for the next 3-4 years.

[Upnorth]

Hawk is not a JAG but he has not earned 7-8 mill this year (hope that is inaccurate) much. Like Jones is not garbage, but hasn't earned his 4 mil this year.
We are lucky the giants rb corp is depleted, we had enough trouble covering rb's and te's before, now what could happen?

[Guiness]

Don't like the idea of Smith with the headset. I wonder what the idea behind that is? Does it have to be an MLB in this scheme? You would think they'd give it to a vet, or at least someone who's been starting all season.

Who knows though. Maybe he's got a great grasp of the D?

[Kiwon]

Don't like the idea of Smith with the headset. I wonder what the idea behind that is? Does it have to be an MLB in this scheme? You would think they'd give it to a vet, or at least someone who's been starting all season.

Who knows though. Maybe he's got a great grasp of the D?

+1

[mmmdk]

Had a feeling they'd not be ready; really looking forward to watch DJ & Francois versus G-Men as both did well last week.

[Harlan Huckleby]

We are lucky the giants rb corp is depleted, we had enough trouble covering rb's and te's before, now what could happen? Getting Hawk off the field will improve coverage of TEs and RBs.

[Upnorth]

Getting Hawk off the field SHOULD improve coverage of TEs and RBs.

Fixed (and i really hope your right).

[George Cumby]

i'm kind of excited to see smith play with the starters

guy has a nonstop motor

+1

[pbmax]

I love how we went last year praising Hawk for being the general on the field, now we are ready to trade him for an unproven 5'11" rookie. I remember when Bryan Brohm was our savior against Aaron Rodgers by so many here. Hawk isn't going anywhere.

And he might be 5' 11" if he is standing on your shoes.

I did like what he showed versus the Lions, but if you play Smith, there is no one back there who has been groomed to be the shock absorber and take on a Guard like Hawk has been asked to do at the Buck (=strongside, Mack=weakside) ILB position. To ask Bishop to do it (he seems big enough) is to take away his best skills. That doesn't happen every play, but it would change Bishop's game some.

[pbmax]

Don't like the idea of Smith with the headset. I wonder what the idea behind that is? Does it have to be an MLB in this scheme? You would think they'd give it to a vet, or at least someone who's been starting all season.

Who knows though. Maybe he's got a great grasp of the D?

It's Smith and Burnett with radios. They tried Woodson but he didn't like it. I can see it being a big distraction if you are not used to it.

[Tony Oday]

Hawk is an offensive guard of the defense, he doesnt get the stats or the flash but without him the defense is not as good...can you see Smith cover Graham at 6'7"?

[Bretsky]

The new guys are always the most beloved players by the fans; don't be surprised if after tomorrow's game we'll be wishing Hawk...and Bishop especially.....played

[Bretsky]

Hawk is an offensive guard of the defense, he doesnt get the stats or the flash but without him the defense is not as good...can you see Smith cover Graham at 6'7"?


I don't see any of them covering Graham

[Guiness]

It's Smith and Burnett with radios. They tried Woodson but he didn't like it. I can see it being a big distraction if you are not used to it.

I imagine it takes someone who can communicate well, is a student of the game and has the right personality. Also someone who's on the field most or all of the time, so the DL is out because they rotate too much. I wonder if they tried Mathews out?

[Brandon494]

Why would they try Matthews? He can only view one side of the field

[Deputy Nutz]

There are very few 3-4 middle linebackers that have the size to take on offensive linemen, and fullbacks in the run game and then have the ability to cover Darren Sproles out of the backfield or cover Antonio Gates downfield. Bishop and Hawk are what they are, they don't have the agility to cover these types of players in the passing game.

I am a fan of AJ Hawk and I can't even say he has played well this year. He is missing too many tackles, and that is what he is usually good for.

[Guiness]

Why would they try Matthews? He can only view one side of the field

Interesting take - they want to use guys who have better vision of the field. CB's have their back to the play too much. I would think ILB's don't see much either, they're generally in the most crowded part of the play. DL don't see much either. That would certainly make safeties the best choice.

I tend to think the headset it just for the coaches to relay plays to the field and have them passed along, not so much looking for feedback from the player.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There are very few 3-4 middle linebackers that have the size to take on offensive linemen, and fullbacks in the run game and then have the ability to cover Darren Sproles out of the backfield or cover Antonio Gates downfield. That's why Barnett is a more valuable player in today's NFL than either of those guys, and he's proving it in Buffalo.


INCOMING!!!

[ThunderDan]

If I am the Giants on Sunday, I woud run 12 personnel a vast majority of the time. If they have a good OL they will be able to get a guard on Smith on every play run play. I like those odds if I am Tom Coughlin. I think we will see a lot of Jacobs up the gut.

[Deputy Nutz]

That's why Barnett is a more valuable player in today's NFL than either of those guys, and he's proving it in Buffalo.


INCOMING!!!

No, he wasn't more valuable because he was not assignment sure in the 3-4. He was a good blitzer but an overrated player in coverage because he was fast from sideline to sideline, not because he excelled in coverage.
Packers in 2011 are 11-0 with Bishop and Hawk in the middle. Awesome how I was able to reference the Packers record in defense of my argument.

[Joemailman]

The new guys are always the most beloved players by the fans; don't be surprised if after tomorrow's game we'll be wishing Hawk...and Bishop especially.....played

Looks like B warming up for the Game Day thread.

[Lurker64]

And he might be 5' 11" if he is standing on your shoes.

Accurate height for DJ Smith is 5'10 5/8"; at least, accurate to within 1/8", since that's how they measure at the combine.

[ND72]

Get over your "man crush" of Hawk, hes not that good. Hes like the Atari Bigby of our LBing corp, hes JAG.

K, #1, picture was from his rookie year trying to get on tv. #2, I've be very critical of hawk even through my love of him if you ever truly read anything. #3, Atari bigby? Really? Are you THAT football illiterate?

[ND72]

Accurate height for DJ Smith is 5'10 5/8"

I was listed as 6'6" 315 in college....I was 6'3 3/4" and 285. Our center was listed as 6'1" 310, he was MAYBE 5'10" 275.

[Lurker64]

I was listed as 6'6" 315 in college....I was 6'3 3/4" and 285. Our center was listed as 6'1" 310, he was MAYBE 5'10" 275.

In the grand scheme of things, rounding up by 3/8" is pretty modest in terms of football exaggeration.

[Brandon494]

K, #1, picture was from his rookie year trying to get on tv. #2, I've be very critical of hawk even through my love of him if you ever truly read anything. #3, Atari bigby? Really? Are you THAT football illiterate?

Your right, Hawk isn't a big hitter like Bigby. You really going to say you've been critical of Hawk? Only time you post on this board is defending the guy.

[pbmax]

That's why Barnett is a more valuable player in today's NFL than either of those guys, and he's proving it in Buffalo.


INCOMING!!!

You mean he is valuable to their collapsing team? Or their 28th ranked defense?

[pbmax]

There are very few 3-4 middle linebackers that have the size to take on offensive linemen, and fullbacks in the run game and then have the ability to cover Darren Sproles out of the backfield or cover Antonio Gates downfield. Bishop and Hawk are what they are, they don't have the agility to cover these types of players in the passing game.

I am a fan of AJ Hawk and I can't even say he has played well this year. He is missing too many tackles, and that is what he is usually good for.

Yes, and that's why I think the position in this defense needs to be split between 2 types. A coverage, sideline to sideline guy and a bull. Smith in the game removes the only bull on the roster.

[Guiness]

Yes, and that's why I think the position in this defense needs to be split between 2 types. A coverage, sideline to sideline guy and a bull. Smith in the game removes the only bull on the roster.

Just to make sure I'm following you...who is Smith replacing? He's playing Bishop's position, right? And Francois is in Hawk's spot? That's what I thought, but I swear I went to get another beer, and when I came back they were both in the game, so I was never sure!

[ThunderDan]

Just to make sure I'm following you...who is Smith replacing? He's playing Bishop's position, right? And Francois is in Hawk's spot? That's what I thought, but I swear I went to get another beer, and when I came back they were both in the game, so I was never sure!

Francois is taking Hawk's spot as the Buck and Smith is taking Bishop's spot.

I just read that Bradshaw thinks he is going to play after sitting out 4-5 weeks. That could be extra bad news from a defensive perspective. Smith vs Bradshaw 1-on-1 with Peprah coming down to support. Thank god the Giants don't have a WR with the talent of Calvin Johnson to keep the safeties deep.

[pbmax]

Just to make sure I'm following you...who is Smith replacing? He's playing Bishop's position, right? And Francois is in Hawk's spot? That's what I thought, but I swear I went to get another beer, and when I came back they were both in the game, so I was never sure!

Yes, I though as Dan did in his response that Smith went in for Hawk at Buck and Francois went in for Bishop at Mack. Whether than means Smith is slotted to only play Buck and Francois is only at Mack may have changed given a week to prepare. For that matter, they could have switched when Bishop was hurt and Francois went in during the Lions game.

But I think the larger point stands that if you were to remove Hawk from the equation as has been speculated, Smith and Bishop might not be the best combo of skills to play the positions collectively.

[Patler]

Yes, I though as Dan did in his response that Smith went in for Hawk at Buck and Francois went in for Bishop at Mack. Whether than means Smith is slotted to only play Buck and Francois is only at Mack may have changed given a week to prepare. For that matter, they could have switched when Bishop was hurt and Francois went in during the Lions game.

But I think the larger point stands that if you were to remove Hawk from the equation as has been speculated, Smith and Bishop might not be the best combo of skills to play the positions collectively.

Didn't Bishop go out of the game first, and wasn't Smith the first replacement in?

[pbmax]

Didn't Bishop go out of the game first, and wasn't Smith the first replacement in?

My memory is the reverse, but it was Thanksgiving and I was fighting distractions.

[Patler]

Didn't Bishop go out of the game first, and wasn't Smith the first replacement in?


My memory is the reverse, but it was Thanksgiving and I was fighting distractions.

Per the JSO:


Smith replaced Bishop at the end of the first quarter. Francois replaced Hawk midway through the third.


Francois replacing Hawk "midway through the third" I believe was actually the first defensive series in the second half. Hawk did not play in the second half.

[pbmax]

Didn't Bishop go out of the game first, and wasn't Smith the first replacement in?


My memory is the reverse, but it was Thanksgiving and I was fighting distractions.

You are correct. From JSOnline http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/littleused-backups-deliver-i636hcj-134477123.html


Smith replaced Bishop at the end of the first quarter. Francois replaced Hawk midway through the third. Side by side, they manned the cockpit of a game very much in doubt. The Packers held a 14-0 lead but the Lions were in Green Bay territory.

[pbmax]

:lol:

[Patler]

:lol:

Gotta be quicker PB! :lol:

Have you, or anyone, seen what these "calf injuries" are?
I wonder what new, nefarious weight room torture this year is causing calf injuries?
It seems like every year the Packers have numerous players with identical injuries, even if the injury is a somewhat uncommon one. I have often wondered if this results from similar training programs causing similar weaknesses, strains, whatever. The flavor of the season this year is calf injuries.

[Joemailman]

Gotta be quicker PB! :lol:

Have you, or anyone, seen what these "calf injuries" are?
I wonder what new, nefarious weight room torture this year is causing calf injuries?
It seems like every year the Packers have numerous players with identical injuries, even if the injury is a somewhat uncommon one. I have often wondered if this results from similar training programs causing similar weaknesses, strains, whatever. The flavor of the season this year is calf injuries.

Last year there did seem to be a lot of shoulder injuries. I don't know what to say about this year since there was no offseason training program. MM seemed to feel the injuries to Hawk and Bishop were fatigue injuries caused by playing 3 games in 11 days.

[pbmax]

Last year there did seem to be a lot of shoulder injuries. I don't know what to say about this year since there was no offseason training program. MM seemed to feel the injuries to Hawk and Bishop were fatigue injuries caused by playing 3 games in 11 days.

I have heard very little about weight room adjustments this year, which means the Packers have not completely transformed their weight room this year and/or fired the strength and conditioning coach.

The only mentions were in the preseason that they were paying close attention to fatigue.

I can report that I cramped up and nearly strained a calf taking off my shoe last night. :)

And of course, we should recommend that the Packers bring back free weights! Or get rid of them! Or if they have a mix, then they need to focus on one or the other because its clearly superior and the coach has seen it work wonders!

[Upnorth]

More calf injuries is less of a weight training and mor of an inadequate stretching problem to my (limited) knowledge.

[LEWCWA]

Francois is taking Hawk's spot as the Buck and Smith is taking Bishop's spot.

I just read that Bradshaw thinks he is going to play after sitting out 4-5 weeks. That could be extra bad news from a defensive perspective. Smith vs Bradshaw 1-on-1 with Peprah coming down to support. Thank god the Giants don't have a WR with the talent of Calvin Johnson to keep the safeties deep.

Shit I wouldn't be too sure, Nicks, Manningham and Cruz are better than what DET runs out there!

[mission]

Well, I'm definitely wrong so far. We got nothing from our ILBs today.

[ThunderDan]

Did you notice that NY put in an extra OL plus their big TE to get 7 270+ players on the line?

[mmmdk]

Bishop & Hawk were missed today!

[LEWCWA]

big time

[mraynrand]

I wonder what new, nefarious weight room torture this year is causing calf injuries?

Someone wanted veal

[George Cumby]

Last year there did seem to be a lot of shoulder injuries. I don't know what to say about this year since there was no offseason training program. MM seemed to feel the injuries to Hawk and Bishop were fatigue injuries caused by playing 3 games in 11 days.

This. The forearm and calf are designed to handle a LOT of use. One variable to consider when setting training volume is the degree of forearm and calf fatigue/soreness. If an athlete complains of excessive soreness/fatigue in these areas, it's time to give them a rest day or two; because if those muscles are that taxed, so it the entire system.

A pulled/strained gastrocnemius can be problematic if not dealt with appropriately, i.e.: rest. Smart to rest AJ and Bish.

[smuggler]

The refs didn't call any holding penalties all game, and that worked in the Giants' favor. Francois dropped a pick-6, other than that, the ILBs were pretty bad.

[Packers4Glory]

Hurry back guys!

[RashanGary]

At this point, I'd rather have Hawk. I'm a bigger fan of Bishop, but our defense is confused enough as it is. We need our playcaller in there.

[RashanGary]

MM said Bishop, Hawk and Sitton are all close. I'm in favor of being more safe than sorry. Sitton especially. We're going to need all of the OL strength we can get down the stretch.

[smuggler]

Sitton's knee has been bothering him all year. Rest him.

[mission]

MM said Bishop, Hawk and Sitton are all close. I'm in favor of being more safe than sorry. Sitton especially. We're going to need all of the OL strength we can get down the stretch.

I know this logic doesn't usually apply in the NFL, but if we beat the Giants without them then we should be able to beat the Palmers without them too. Rest em, let's get healthy.

[Packers4Glory]

I'm all for getting guys rest that need it to get at or nearer to full strength once HF is clinched.