OFFICIAL GREEN BAY PACKERS vs. NY GIANTS GAME DAY THREAD

[Iron Mike]

packers lose this one...I smell it

What say you now???

[pbmax]

PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good!

[George Cumby]

Does this qualify as a "Close Game"?

[HowardRoark]

Gotta make the kick

Delay across the pond......

[George Cumby]

dammit!

The Old Pro beats me to it!

[pittstang5]

I'll take it...Bush still sucks ass. God I hate him and Shields is fast becoming next on my shit list.

[mmmdk]

Have a cigar!

[KalamazooPackerFan]

Now that was a game! Hope they can learn a lesson on defense and drops without having to lose a game to drive the point home.

[pittstang5]

What say you now???

Reverse psychology...been working most of the season (lol). Just like the whammy

[MJZiggy]

Good fucking god that was tense!

[Iron Mike]

Put the champagne away, Buoniconti....

[mmmdk]

Now that was a game! Hope they can learn a lesson on defense and drops without having to lose a game to drive the point home.

Great test! 12-0 is pretty amazing yet Lombardi Trophy or bust! :pack:

[wpony]

it was nice of will Blackman to help us with his coverage :) once a packer huh :)

[RashanGary]

106.1 QB rating. 12 games over 100 rating.

[Guiness]

packers lose this one...I smell it

Or not, right?

[Freak Out]

Whammy live on!

[gbgary]

it was nice of will Blackman to help us with his coverage :) once a packer huh :)

is he the guy who bit on jordy's double move?


went back and looked. yes it was agent blackmon who helped us out there.

[packrulz]

They need close games like that, it builds character. Quarless is probably done for the season though.

[RashanGary]

125 overall rating

[gbgary]

They need close games like that, it builds character. Crabtree is probably done for the season though.

you mean quarless.

[Joemailman]

PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good! PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good!

The game was tied though. He didn't bring them from behind in the last minute. :satan:

[KalamazooPackerFan]

They need close games like that, it builds character. Crabtree is probably done for the season though.

Crabtree? You mean Quarles?

[Guiness]

PACKERS WON A CLOSE GAME! Aaron Rodgers can now be considered good!

and how is a 7 pt win a close game?

*ducks*

[sheepshead]

Anyone think MCCarthy should have gone for 2 on that last TD?

[Joemailman]

Anyone think MCCarthy should have gone for 2 on that last TD?

No.

[yooperfan]

What a great win!!! Injuries are getting concerning again tho......

[gbgary]

clinch the division with this win and a det lose later tonight.

[RashanGary]

On pace for

5125 Yards (on pace to break record, but Brees and Brady are on pace to get even more)
70.6% (RECORD) T-Drew Brees
49 TDs (50 Tom Brady)
7 INT's
125.2 (RECORD) 121.1 Peyton Manning

[yooperfan]

Packers have clinched a playoff spot and now for the Lions to lose and just have to worry about home field.


18 in a row!!

[RashanGary]

Woodson is fine. Looked like a concussion.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers is 4 good games away from being in the conversation for greatest single season of all time. If he gets close, the rushing yards could push him over the top.

[pbmax]

Anyone think MCCarthy should have gone for 2 on that last TD?

Nope. PAT and worst case scenario is tie.

[hoosier]

Dang, Rodgers barely completed 60% of his passes today. I think the veneer is starting to wear off a little.

[HarveyWallbangers]

No.

I've actually wanted somebody to do. I think it would be a good move, but it could come back to bite a team. I'd like to see a coach with the 'nads to do it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nope. PAT and worst case scenario is tie.

If you don't get it though, the worst case scenario is normally a tie. It's almost like a freebie. Of course, about the time you try for it, the other coach will go against convention and try for 2 at the end.

[gbgary]

Dang, Rodgers barely completed 60% of his passes today. I think the veneer is starting to wear off a little.

:D he was off early in the game. throwing high. a few bad throws, a few drops, but kept at it. he's f'g great.

[esoxx]

This willbe a loss

Wrong ye of little faith.

[esoxx]

and how is a 7 pt win a close game?

*ducks*

38-35?

[RashanGary]

Looks like Nelson keeps rising the WR ranks. He's getting close to cracking the top 10. There are 64 starting WR's. He's in the top 20% of starting WR's. Finley is in the top 25% of starting TE's. Finley is dropping far more balls. Nelson is making amazing grabs he has no business making.

More Nelson. More Jennings. More Driver. Less Finley. Feed the ball to those who are catching it.

[Fosco33]

Interesting game.
- Arod was forcing throws due to dline pressure with 4 rush. You could tell he was pumped to have a shot to win it.
- Didn't help that there were so many dropped passes - but team looked solid on 3rd down
- The defense just hasn't come together - besides being aggressive on pass coverage
- Hope Woodson, Starks and Quarless are ok. Add Sitton, Bishop and Hawk - and it's been a rough few weeks on the injury front.
- The refs gave us a few calls. I wonder if the NFL officials really want an undefeated team. I'll take it!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I thought the refs were spot on. The only one that was close IMHO was the Jennings TD catch. There will be missed calls. I get to hear Viking fans whine about calls all of the time, and then I watch an illegal hands to the face against Allen cost the Broncos when Allen also had his hands inside the facemask of his opponent. Just the way it goes. Have to overcome the refs some times.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. Refs helped us today.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah. Refs helped us today.

Which play(s)?

[Joemailman]

All the reviews went the Packers way, but I didn't think the calls were wrong.

[gbgary]

Yeah. Refs helped us today.

not at all!

[packrulz]

Crabtree? You mean Quarles?
Yes, Quarless.

[gbgary]

mm say anything about chuck?

[RashanGary]

Which play(s)?

I don't think Jennings had that ball. It was bobbling the whole time. Woodson got away with a couple muggings. He knows where the refs are. It's funny, but I think he actually plans some of his interference. His mind is 2 steps in front of everyone elses, it's shocking how often he can interfere and either make it look like he was looking back at the ball or just do it in a way that the ref can't see it. I guess the Giants had a couple too.

It was really just the Jennings TD. I guess all the reviews going our way just made the momentum feel like we were getting all the luck.

[Upnorth]

So we finally won a close one! I much prefer when we win by the start of the fourth, not the end!

[MJZiggy]

I don't think Jennings had that ball. It was bobbling the whole time. Woodson got away with a couple muggings. He knows where the refs are. It's funny, but I think he actually plans some of his interference. His mind is 2 steps in front of everyone elses, it's shocking how often he can interfere and either make it look like he was looking back at the ball or just do it in a way that the ref can't see it. I guess the Giants had a couple too.

It was really just the Jennings TD. I guess all the reviews going our way just made the momentum feel like we were getting all the luck.

I didn't think so either until one of the replays showed he had it controlled in his left hand for a couple steps right before the defender knocked it out.

[mmmdk]

I didn't think so either until one of the replays showed he had it controlled in his left hand for a couple steps right before the defender knocked it out.

You got it right, girl!

[Fosco33]

Which play(s)?

Obviously Jennings catch.

Ballard non-TD catch was pretty close. When Pereira says it's in - it's close...

I was a little surprised about the Matthews fumble. I could see the rationale that he hit Mannings arm - but that could've been incomplete and most people wouldn't have thought of it again. Didn't matter as Crosby missed the FG. But maybe NY goes and gets a late FG.

There was a very ticky tac def holding/contact call that had nothing to do with a drive - that I think ended with punt after Finley got jobbed again.

I dunno - just felt like every call that could've went either way - went to us.

I'll take that every day.

[ThunderDan]

Well, Smith plays with a great motor but the lead FB and OL that got to him barried him play after play. When he was able to run free he was around the ball for the tackle.

[pbmax]

If you don't get it though, the worst case scenario is normally a tie. It's almost like a freebie. Of course, about the time you try for it, the other coach will go against convention and try for 2 at the end.

Maybe we are talking about different scenarios? I thought op asked if McCarthy should go for 2 when up 7 on Giants. Late in game with time left for a full drive, if you miss 2, then you give the other team the ball with a chance not to tie, but to win. Bad strategy. Kick PAT and FORCE them to make a 2 pt conversion.

[pbmax]

Obviously Jennings catch.

Ballard non-TD catch was pretty close. When Pereira says it's in - it's close...

I was a little surprised about the Matthews fumble. I could see the rationale that he hit Mannings arm - but that could've been incomplete and most people wouldn't have thought of it again. Didn't matter as Crosby missed the FG. But maybe NY goes and gets a late FG.

There was a very ticky tac def holding/contact call that had nothing to do with a drive - that I think ended with punt after Finley got jobbed again.

I dunno - just felt like every call that could've went either way - went to us.

I'll take that every day.

I can understand the defensive illegal contacts being debatable, but the Ballard catch seemed clearly out with the knee to me. Eli definitely had a fumble with Matthews hit. Could have seen Jennings TD being a non catch.

[gbgary]

i thought gj's catch was a catch all the way. you don't have to have ten fingers on the ball to control it. he had it for a couple of steps with 4-6 fingers and the ball wasn't moving. it didn't move until he went to one hand...then he secured it in one hand...then the ball was swatted away.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Obviously Jennings catch.

Questionable, but I think it was close enough to go with the ruling on the field.


Ballard non-TD catch was pretty close. When Pereira says it's in - it's close...

Right call.


I was a little surprised about the Matthews fumble. I could see the rationale that he hit Mannings arm - but that could've been incomplete and most people wouldn't have thought of it again. Didn't matter as Crosby missed the FG. But maybe NY goes and gets a late FG.

Right call.


There was a very ticky tac def holding/contact call that had nothing to do with a drive - that I think ended with punt after Finley got jobbed again.

I fast forwarded past this, but Finley also got held on a play where they didn't call it. Those types of plays, one way or the other, happen a lot in games. Some go for you. Some go against you.


I dunno - just felt like every call that could've went either way - went to us.

Outside of Jennings, I think they were the right calls. Even the Jennings was questionable, and they almost had to go with the ruling on the field.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe we are talking about different scenarios? I thought op asked if McCarthy should go for 2 when up 7 on Giants. Late in game with time left for a full drive, if you miss 2, then you give the other team the ball with a chance not to tie, but to win. Bad strategy. Kick PAT and FORCE them to make a 2 pt conversion.

But the opposing coach will RARELY go for two. Tice did it against NO with the Vikings when they were out of the playoff race, but it rarely happens. So, it's almost a case where you get a freebie to ice the game. If the other team scores, they'll very likely kick the XP. I guess it depends on what you think is more likely to happen: 1) you get the two point conversion, or 2) you stop the other team from making the two point conversion. In our case, I'd like to see them give our offense a chance to ice the game.

[pbmax]

But the opposing coach will RARELY go for two. Tice did it against NO with the Vikings when they were out of the playoff race, but it rarely happens. So, it's almost a case where you get a freebie to ice the game. If the other team scores, they'll very likely kick the XP. I guess it depends on what you think is more likely to happen: 1) you get the two point conversion, or 2) you stop the other team from making the two point conversion. In our case, I'd like to see them give our offense a chance to ice the game.

Cost is too high unless you are a huge underdog or in an otherwise impossible situation.

[digitaldean]

All I got to say is...WOW, just freakin' WOW!

Caught tail end of game (had to work 2day). Thought for sure we were going to OT.

A-Rod was just a freakin' assassin on that final drive. Not thrilled with D letting Eli get the TD/2ptr late, but they did get us a pick 6.

[Guiness]

38-35?

:oops:

Uhhm, I can't count?

How about, I'm so used to the Pack scoring a TD to finish it, I forgot it was only a FG?

Do you buy either of those?

[sheepshead]

Nope. PAT and worst case scenario is tie.

think about it--if we dont make the 2 were up 7. coughlin would never play for the win or lose with a 2 pt conversion. He'll only play for the tie, they are still in a playoff hunt. But if we make it-we win. Attempting the 2 point then was a no lose situation.

[Guiness]

Obviously Jennings catch.

Ballard non-TD catch was pretty close. When Pereira says it's in - it's close...

I was a little surprised about the Matthews fumble. I could see the rationale that he hit Mannings arm - but that could've been incomplete and most people wouldn't have thought of it again. Didn't matter as Crosby missed the FG. But maybe NY goes and gets a late FG.

There was a very ticky tac def holding/contact call that had nothing to do with a drive - that I think ended with punt after Finley got jobbed again.

I dunno - just felt like every call that could've went either way - went to us.

I'll take that every day.

One call I thought went against us was the non-free catch followed by a decent return - the play Quarless got hurt on.

The guy put his hand up in the air, although not over his head. I think it should have been called dead where he caught it. You can't expect a guy to pay attention to where he waved his hand! I think Pereira even said it should have been a penalty for an illegal fair catch signal?

[pbmax]

think about it--if we dont make the 2 were up 7. coughlin would never play for the win or lose with a 2 pt conversion. He'll only play for the tie, they are still in a playoff hunt. But if we make it-we win. Attempting the 2 point then was a no lose situation.

I would never hand the other coach a chance to beat me on one possession when I have the better team. I can't mind read Coughlin. He might play it cautious. But he is at home, he might go for the win. They were desperate.

[Pugger]

Buck and Aikman are SO bad. The Pack has had so many prime time games this year, and these guys are doing nothing but trying to pick them apart. I am SO sick of them.

No shit Sherlock! Thank god we get CBS next week! :p

[Pugger]

Bring back Clifton
Bring back Sitton

Pierre Paul is really good, as is Tuck

Anybody know if Cliffy will be back this season? I don't like having Newhouse protecting The Franchise.

[Pugger]

I'm still waiting to see how we're so better without Hawk.

Not having Bishop isn't helping either.

[Pugger]

Maybe Finley should work on catching a ball rather than gesturing for a flag....

When the zebras threw the flag I yelled "Finally!" The mugging by the Gmen's DBs and LBs was ridiculous in this game. :-x

[MJZiggy]

No shit Sherlock! Thank god we get CBS next week! :p I suppose it was a good year to dump cable, but dammit, I just found a place to watch the games!

[Guiness]

When the zebras threw the flag I yelled "Finally!" The mugging by the Gmen's DBs and LBs was ridiculous in this game. :-x

He was calling for it a lot, but it was warranted more than once. It seemed like whenever they showed the replay, he had a guy draped on his back. They were really playing him tough.

[Pugger]

I'll take it...Bush still sucks ass. God I hate him and Shields is fast becoming next on my shit list.

Bush is great on ST but not in the secondary. I hope he's not out there next week...

[Guiness]

I would never hand the other coach a chance to beat me on one possession when I have the better team. I can't mind read Coughlin. He might play it cautious. But he is at home, he might go for the win. They were desperate.

Agreed.

Was it Shannahan that did that a few years ago? Against the Chargers, I think. Went for 2 and the win, and got it.

[Guiness]

Bush is great on ST but not in the secondary. I hope he's not out there next week...

If Woodson is banged up, I imagine we'll see House active. He's a healthy scratch.

[Cleft Crusty]

think about it--if we dont make the 2 were up 7. coughlin would never play for the win or lose with a 2 pt conversion. He'll only play for the tie, they are still in a playoff hunt. But if we make it-we win. Attempting the 2 point then was a no lose situation.


I would never hand the other coach a chance to beat me on one possession when I have the better team. I can't mind read Coughlin. He might play it cautious. But he is at home, he might go for the win. They were desperate.

Mr. Sheep makes a reasonable point. The problem is that Coach Coughlin is well aware of the abilities of the Packer offense and may have wanted to go for the 'win' with the conversion. Psychologically, its' tougher on an offense in that last drive if you are behind by one rather than tied. McCarthy played the percentages and made the correct call.

[Cleft Crusty]

A number of comments about the announcers. The 'Buck' name and the 'Aikman' name seem to be carrying this so-called number one announcing team. Buck is monotonous and Aikman is well-skilled at stating the obvious. For my money, I would enjoy listening to Gus Johnson call a game any day. Surprisingly, James Lofton has become an excellent color commentator on the radio. Stanford guys are pretty bright. Someone should put those two together for a dynamite TV crew.

[pbmax]

I am not sure this was mentioned, but did anyone notice the foot on the gas pedal on the last drive? Prior to Jennings catch, the Packers had moved into Crosby's range; it was a 46 yard kick prior to Saine's pass to the flat, 47 yards after that.

Change in plan or something specific about windy New Meadowlands/Metropolitan Life Stadium?

[denverYooper]

I am not sure this was mentioned, but did anyone notice the foot on the gas pedal on the last drive? Prior to Jennings catch, the Packers had moved into Crosby's range; it was a 46 yard kick prior to Saine's pass to the flat, 47 yards after that.

Change in plan or something specific about windy New Meadowlands/Metropolitan Life Stadium?
Crosby's earlier miss?

[Brandon494]

I am not sure this was mentioned, but did anyone notice the foot on the gas pedal on the last drive? Prior to Jennings catch, the Packers had moved into Crosby's range; it was a 46 yard kick prior to Saine's pass to the flat, 47 yards after that.

Change in plan or something specific about windy New Meadowlands/Metropolitan Life Stadium?

I noticed Dallas had a opportunity to make it a shorter FG and decided they decided to let the clock run down and kick a 48 yarder. I think we all know how that turned out.

[pbmax]

I noticed Dallas had a opportunity to make it a shorter FG and decided they decided to let the clock run down and kick a 48 yarder. I think we all know how that turned out.

Worked the first time. :lol:

I take it all back. Even with the CBA/lockout of 2011, I hope Danny and Jerry stay in the League a long time.

[Bossman641]

Going for 2 to go up 9 actually was mentioned in an article I was reading today by Bill Barnwell. He is a big stats guy and agrees with Sheepshead.

"Why don't teams go for a two-point conversion when they score a touchdown and go up seven points (before the extra point) in the fourth quarter? There were two teams on Sunday that each had a chance to make that decision and chose against it, and in each case, it's hard to understand why.

First, the logic. Of course, going for a two-point conversion in every situation doesn't really make sense unless you're a team like Carolina or Denver that is capable of being dominant in short yardage. In a vacuum, this play only really makes sense if you think your chances of picking up a two-point conversion are greater than the other team's chances of picking up a two-pointer later on. It's probably not worth the aggravation.

In a situation where time is limited, though, it becomes an extremely valuable gambit. Let's think about this in the prism of that amazing Giants-Packers game from Sunday afternoon. When the Packers scored on a Donald Driver catch with 3:34 left, they went up 34-27 before the extra point. Kicking would give them a 35-27 lead, forcing the Giants to drive down the field and pick up a two-point conversion just to tie the game. Tough, but as the Giants ended up exhibiting on that very drive, not exactly impossible.

Now, what if the Packers had gone for two in that situation? If they don't make the two-point conversion, they're still up by a touchdown with less than four minutes to go. The Giants still have to drive the length of the field, just like they do in an eight-point game, but they only have to kick an extra point to tie it up as opposed to going for two. That's easier, but the long drive is still more difficult than the two-point conversion, which an average team will pick up 47.9 percent of the time. Furthermore, while the other team could theoretically go for two and win the game with a two-point conversion, they never will; teams in a one-point game will kick here virtually every time and tie it up, even if they should go for two. So whether the Packers kick an extra point or go for a two-point conversion, the worst result for them is almost surely that the game will be tied.

The upside, though, is massive. A two-point conversion puts the Packers up nine with 3:30 left. That's a two-possession game, and it simply leaves the Giants with too much to do. First, they have to score a touchdown. They'll obviously tack on an extra point down three with virtually no time left, so it'll be a two-point game with whatever time is left after the touchdown drive. Now, the Giants have to either recover an expected onside kick (success rate: 21.1 percent) or stop the Packers from picking up a first down in order to get the ball back. And they're still not done! If they get the ball again, they have to drive down the field and set up for a game-winning field goal, and that field goal has to go through the uprights. All of this has to happen in 3:30 with one timeout and the two-minute warning for the Giants. The Packers' chances of winning with a successful two-pointer have to be in the high nineties, and their chances of getting a two-point conversion with Aaron freaking Rodgers on the move are surely greater than 48 percent.

Let's go back and envision that final 3:30 in a scenario where the Packers pick up a two-point conversion and go up nine. The Giants have to march downfield and score, which took them 2:36. Even if we assume that they'll go into a no-huddle and drive faster, they're unlikely to score before the two-minute warning. After that play, the Giants have to attempt an onside kick versus a team of freakish athletes at wide receiver. And if the Giants do somehow score before the two-minute warning, all Aaron Rodgers needs to do is get one first down — at most, two — to end the game. Instead, when the Giants scored eight points and tied up the game, Rodgers had to march the Packers 68 yards downfield to set up a game-winning field goal attempt.

Again, the only way the Packers increase their chances of losing by going for two in this scenario is if the Giants score and then decide to go for two and get it. The reality is that coaches aren't brave enough to do that. By our memory, no team has been bold enough to try that move since the Bucs successfully pulled it off against the Redskins in 2005. Obviously, it's easier to win against a team that has to pick up a two-point conversion to tie as opposed to a team that only needs an extra point, but the tradeoff of creating a two-possession game with limited time seems far more valuable."

[pbmax]

I am still not convinced that a coach of a more desperate, underdog team wouldn't go for the win. NFL coaches are notoriously cautious and risk averse, but if faced with a superior opponent, I think the odds increase they would go for it.

[mraynrand]

I like the analysis. During the game, I was kind of excite to see if Stubby would try the 2 pointer.

One flaw in the analysis is the same flaw teams make time after time. If you are down by 9 and have the ball, you should never waste a ton of time getting that first score when you have to recover an onside kick. You should play quickly for a solid FG try and then kick onsides. Why? Because you have to recover the onside kick anyway, which will give you a short field for a TD drive. So many times you see teams blow all their time trying for the TD, when the whole thing is pointless if they don't recover the onsides kick and don't have any time remaining. Sure, get the TD first if it presents itself. But if you get to around a minute, and are 20+ yards away in bad down and distance - just kick the FG and see if you can recover onsides. The onside kick is the key play, and you'll just be kicking yourself if you recover it but have no time left to do anything.

[mraynrand]

I am still not convinced that a coach of a more desperate, underdog team wouldn't go for the win. NFL coaches are notoriously cautious and risk averse, but if faced with a superior opponent, I think the odds increase they would go for it.

"I agree" Dave Wannstedt, 1997
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9PD7EZdWmkM/TP8VdUBdsBI/AAAAAAAABpk/iQw7TbGrj54/s400/Dave+Wannstedt+Wiki++Dave+Wannstedt+Pics+1.jpg

[HarveyWallbangers]

I am still not convinced that a coach of a more desperate, underdog team wouldn't go for the win. NFL coaches are notoriously cautious and risk averse, but if faced with a superior opponent, I think the odds increase they would go for it.

The Giants had too much at stake to take the risk. They may have been an underdog and desperate, but they were 1/2 game behind the Cowboys at that point with two games to play against Dallas. They likely wouldn't take that risk. If we were playing the 2-10 Vikings, it's a different call. Like I said, I only remember a 3 or 4 win Vikings team doing it before.

I think it's the right statistical move to go for 2 when you have Aaron Rodgers on offense and a defense playing as poorly as ours, but no coach has had the guts to do it. I'd like to see McCarthy do it, if in that situation again. I, for one, would not second guess the decision.

[mraynrand]

Like I said, I only remember a 3 or 4 win Vikings team doing it before.

You don't remember the game at Chicago in '97? Anyway, I think you're right - the team that pulls this stunt mostly will have nothing to lose.

[Bossman641]

You don't remember the game at Chicago in '97? Anyway, I think you're right - the team that pulls this stunt mostly will have nothing to lose.

I remember that game well. I believe the 2 point conversion went to Raymont "Ultraback" Harris but I can't remember if it was a toss play or a swing pass.